Panels vs Windows Re: GM4Mac
Monday, April 6, 2009 3:12:06 AM
). There are regular windows, and there are panels. Panels do not behave like normal windows, for example when you run expose (the program that shows all of your windows on the screen at once, allowing you to choose which window to give focus to), panels are not shown.I have been thinking about the windows in GM, the ones that pop up when you double click on an object, a sprite, a room; a resource. Should these be panels or regular windows?
I often find myself losing the object windows into the background. In GM for Windows, they are contained within the window. Each window is actually within the GM window. I guess this can be likened to panels.
Now as many of you probably don't know, Mac's have a rather different approach to windows than Windows does. This is mostly hidden from the user, except one part. In Windows, a window represents an application. Close window, close application. Many of you switchers would have noticed that when you got to Mac OS X, after you closed the window the little light was still glowing under the Dock icon, showing the application was still open. Huh? You say? This is because in Mac OS X a window represents a document, not an application.
Think of it like this: You have MS Word open, and there is a big X in the top right corner that will close Word. There is a smaller X in the same region that will just close the open document. Clicking the close button in Mac OS X is like clicking the smaller X, closing the document but not the application. There are all sorts of reasons for thing, ranging from consistency to ease of use (ease of use for someone just learning computers, not for someone who's used Windows for 20 years), but that's outside the scope of this post. But after using it for a year, I wouldn't want it changed.
Now GM for Mac could go in three directions:
1. Leave it as it is: Most likely.
2. Use Panels: Least Likely
3. Manage windows, to make them appear inside the main GM window.
3 Would make veteran Mac users cringe. The window system was set up this way for a reason.
1 Is really awful. You can't open one object, open another, and compare. When you open the second object, since you clicked in the main GM window it hides the first objects window behind the main one, and shows the second one. You have to manually bring the other one back.
2 Panels will likely be the most difficult to implement, but their use means the panels will always be above the main window, but aren't limited to the area covered by it. When you run expose, it would show the GM project instead of each resource properties window seperatly. This setup should also make it easier to open multiple projects at once, in seperate windows. Because Mac programs are supposed to work like this, you can't run the application twice. That means we are currently limited to one project opened at once, it appears (I made two copies of Game Maker so I can have two open). No other application I have found has this problem.
One thing I love about Macs is how most developers stive for system wide consistency, and it would be great if YoYo Games did the same. Knowing almost none of the technical aspects of acheiving it, I would like to suggest panels as a possible option. Failing that, a system that works like I have described would be great. As a minimum, at least don't let the object windows hide behind the main window.
-Dave


Unregistered user # Wednesday, April 8, 2009 5:42:09 AM
Dangerous DaveDangerous_Dave # Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:50:43 AM
Clicky Clicky
The red circled window is the document, the yellow are panels.
Panels are treated differently, the most important thing with regard to GameMaker is they are always overtop of the document. The tricky bit could be having different panels for different documents, but I really can't stand how it is now. Something must be changed.
As for the code windows, there was a reason put forward, possibly in the GM8 suggestions topic. Can't remember what it was now.
I think I remember now. It was because every other action required you close the window before continueing. Code is an action, while scripts are a resource. That's why it's different: Consistency.
Unregistered user # Thursday, April 9, 2009 3:19:22 AM
Unregistered user # Thursday, April 9, 2009 3:19:55 AM
Unregistered user # Friday, April 10, 2009 2:16:34 PM
Dangerous DaveDangerous_Dave # Saturday, April 11, 2009 2:14:30 AM
Unregistered user # Monday, April 13, 2009 4:55:07 AM
Unregistered user # Tuesday, April 14, 2009 4:04:30 AM
Dangerous DaveDangerous_Dave # Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:46:14 AM
The image I posted above was to show the difference between the document and panels, not how I wanted GM to look.
Unregistered user # Saturday, June 6, 2009 4:50:56 PM
Unregistered user # Saturday, June 6, 2009 10:15:27 PM
Dangerous DaveDangerous_Dave # Sunday, June 7, 2009 3:27:09 AM
However, as well as that works for an image manipulation program, I don't see it working for Game Maker. I would much prefer to watch all of the Mac fan-boys shudder and throw in an environment identical to the windows one in looks, with the document taking up a large background space, and resource property windows overlayed using panels.
This way it works in with expose, showing each document as a window rather than each object info window as its own (which is what annoys me about the current Mac version). Unfortunately I am not convinced the developing environment they are using can pull of what I am asking for.
Unregistered user # Sunday, June 7, 2009 10:07:25 AM
Dangerous DaveDangerous_Dave # Sunday, June 7, 2009 11:44:49 AM
Game Maker doesn't fit this. You don't have the game in the middle and drag things onto it, you have each part of the game opened in it's own window. Because of this, things feel messy when you open many. That's why I think a GM for Windows look should be used instead.
Unregistered user # Sunday, June 7, 2009 12:11:24 PM
Dangerous DaveDangerous_Dave # Sunday, June 7, 2009 9:32:28 PM
Because of the development environment, I don't see anything changing from what we already have unfortunately.
Unregistered user # Sunday, June 7, 2009 10:39:32 PM
Dangerous DaveDangerous_Dave # Monday, June 8, 2009 5:37:28 AM
I believe their problem is they want to develop one version that can work on all platforms (hence their choice of development platform). I really don't see much changing from what it is like now, though a GIMP-like system would probably be the easiest to implement, with or without that extra bar (but preferably with).
They simply don't have the resources to develop each version tailored to the platform which, although it would yield much nicer results, would take twice as long to do (and we all know how short our patience is).
Unregistered user # Monday, June 8, 2009 10:09:02 AM