Still Remembering the Kanji

Guide to Japanese self-study using James Heisigs Remembering the Kanji books

Objections to Heisig and Remembering the Kanji

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Students who have sought out information about teaching themselves Kanji the Heisig way with Remembering the Kanji will probably have met one or more objections to the method.

1) You waste time studying dead kanji with silly mnemonics but sounds. You know 2042 stupid stories that you have no use for when you are done.

2) All the repetition you do could have been spent better repeating vocabulary instead.

3) Heisig's order of learning kanji is completely off the charts. You learn difficult ones too fast, and save needed ones for last.

4) The best way to learn japanese kanji is to use them in context. So learn lots of words and they will come to you.

5) You must learn japanese by doing everything at once, focusing on one bit will automatically lead to neglect of the rest. Grammar, conversation, reading, writing, kanji etc. all hangs together.
6) Silly stories in your head is waste of effort in learning japanese.

I was partially agreeing with the first argument for a while. But taking a japanese course in addition to my kanji studies did reveal one benefit. when meeting words, I often knew a bit about what they meant even before I could read them out loud. The more I progressed, the easier it became to tie meaning and sound to the kanji. At this stage you must rely on pure memorization power.

Also, you cannot skip ahead and mix book 1 and book 2. Heisig system is rather orthodox in its unorthodoxy here: Do as you are told, or fail.

Now argument 2, the repetition, actually is a great convenience today. I have a rock solid repetition scheme running in SuperMemo 2004, and adding vocabulary to that is a walk in the park. The useless mnemonics from argument 1 is a boon. They don't stick for ever, you know, they are replaced by mere recognition. And I gained a valuable insight in how my mind works which I use for further studies.

The order of the kanjis can be a problem if you are too slow working through the book. I spent around 7 months from start to finish of this book. Too long by a month or two, but I managed to complete it before I finished my japanese course. I would say you should really strive to complete the book in 3-4 months. Then the order of the kanji will be a small problem. Story sharing is essential to complete the book fast for most people. So do it in context of some online community or with your japanese co students.

Now, Ive been told by many how you learn japanese best. context, do it all and it sticks. It is probably very japanese way of thinking. Do everything a lot of times and you become a master. Notice how everything takes 10 year in Japan? Sushi chefs are educated for 10 years before they are masters. Karate champions toil for 10 years before they are masters. Virtuoso musicians played till they bled for 10 years. Etc. etc. Wax on, wax off - 1000 times, Daniel-san.

Now, in my country we are probably too scared of repetition nowadays. Its hard work and boring, and viewed as an inferior learning method. It has its merits. But trying to repeat all aspects of the language at once leads to disorganization, at least for me. If you are dragged screaming through a rigorious university course or other, you might not notice that. But doing japanese on your own it is an essential way to do it.Because the Heisig method has one super benefit: It slices out one particular, troublesome aspect of the chaotic mess that it is to be learning japanese and puts it into a rigig system. There is a method, a clear chart of the work ahead of you that builds upon the work you previously did.

Not only is it a huge morale boost when you do complete the book, you also can continue with RTK2 and KanjiTown method to make further progress. Your silly little mnemonics and stories are suddenly turning into powerful silver bullets for building stories that ties memorization and places into sound. All this while you dabble in conversation, grammar and reading of canned text. If you thought the idea presented in RTK1 was smart, you have NO idea what wonders lie in wait for you when you begin kanjitown approach with RTK2.

And the really powerful bit is that you know how to draw just about every kanji there is, almost correctly, since you are intimately familiar with the elements and meaning of them without having to write each kanji 1000 times. You are no ワープロ馬鹿 who is unable to get by without IME. But do not expect your hand written kanji to impress anyone. It takes careful calligraphy classes (10 years!) to really be able to write kanji beautifully.


As someone mentioned on the kanji boards, finishing RTK has made him ask himself what other "Impossible things can I can accomplish."

A list of kanji sorted after onyomiFrom KanjiTown to chaining

Comments

Dariodalu Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:28:06 PM

1) You waste time studying dead kanji with silly mnemonics but sounds. You know 2042 stupid stories that you have no use for when you are done.

This is obviously the common comment by someone who didn't even try going past 30-40 kanji. It took around 200 kanji for me to realize how the stories you created will "vanish" from your memory but the link between the image and the meaning will stay. It's true, with Heisig method you learn how your mind really works.
I'm glad I didn't listen to the critics bigsmile

But I have to say that a more contextual approach could be complementary while working on the heisig's list. However this should be done by the student himself and not by the book. Linking kanji to words I already know helps a lot, especially if I cannot make a very "memorable" story.

One objection I have to add is that Heisig's stories suck. Really.
And also too many primitive meanings are a bit awkward, not enough true-to-life.

Henrik Falckhefa Tuesday, November 28, 2006 5:58:19 AM

I'll never forget Remembering the Kanji, which I was forced to use for a year during my Japanese studies at the university, for delaying the development of my Japanese skills considerably... it's the suckiest book I've ever had to deal with! And I did go through with it (because I wanted to pass the course). I agree to all the objections above.

For me, nothing beats studying the true history of the characters. Even though it should be ten times harder to memorize, I find it much easier to remember the true story than forcing myself to memorize Heisig's stories or my own. The true history is much more interesting, and besides, you gain real-world usable and interesting knowledge as well.

Also, whatever gave him the idea of not printing the pronunciations along with the characters in the first place...? Look at how Japanese people see the kanji characters: They don't associate silly stories and meanings to them; they associate sounds and words to them! And from my own experience, as Japanese language skills have evolved, that's how it has become for me as well.

Kids: Say no to Heisig! Stay out of school and do real study instead.

Anyway, whatever suits you... Heisig might work for you... But I strongly recommend everyone against even trying.

Immacolata Sunday, December 3, 2006 4:11:48 PM

There is no might work for you here. It DOES work. Anyone can give it a spin using the free, downloadable PDF with the first several hundred kanjis. By then you can easily figure out if it sucks.

http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/miscPublications/Remembering_the_Kanji_1.htm

However, RTK2 isn't that good except for the indexes. With RTK1 + chains you are going to get there. The chaining makes you able to remember scores of kanji yomis at once.

And why bother with etymologi? There is no need to reinvent the wheel for each kanji. It might be interesting, yes, but ultimately just as useless as Heisig's mnemonics. The goal is to forget the mnemonics and just remember the signs without the intensive work using rote memorization and not your smarts.

Anonymous Friday, February 23, 2007 4:54:59 PM

Alain Breton writes: I think that people that criticize RTK because you only learn to recognize the kanjis are missing the point. I went to school and attended Japanese classes to learn only a few dozen kanjis, in no particular order except that it was required from the texts we were reading. After feeling sort of discouraged by the task ahead, a friend of mine gave a sample of RTK and inside of a month, I could already write around 300 of them. Living in Japan, I was able to learn other - and perhaps more accurate - meanings of the kanjis naturally. I think the book can give you a great leap forward and I know for a fact that is it the best method so far to remember the kanjis. The idea of first recognizing the kanjis and then switching to their pronunciation is a great one because you can advance faster and feel progress. Of course, no one should only stick to only one method and you shouldn't stop from learning other aspects of the language because you are doing this book. This is one of the tools to help you achieve your goal. It would be like saying that the Pimsleur tapes can teach you the whole Japanese language, of course not! But it doesn't hurt to use it as a complementary tool, just as RTK. The book has its flaws but so far, if it has survived for so long and people still use it, I guess it is not as bad as some people would claim.

Henrik Falckhefa Saturday, February 24, 2007 6:01:04 AM

Sorry Alain, it's not the best method so far. RTK just sucks. p

Anonymous Monday, June 4, 2007 10:20:22 AM

D Tran writes: hefa, It is interesting to hear you say that you used RTK as part of a class. Heisig specifically said in the introduction (I have the 4th Ed) that he had never seen his technique used in a classroom setting and that he suspected it would fail miserably if one were to try. Thank you for validating his suspicion. RTK is fundamentally a self-study method. I think if I were forced to advance in a classroom setting and/or forced to adopt the method I would end up hating it as much as you. Your argument that history's story is easier to remember than your OWN story makes no sense to us RTK'ers but that is not the point -- I think it works for you because you adopted it of your own accord and not as part of a class.

Henrik Falckhefa Tuesday, June 5, 2007 1:47:18 AM

It's a good thing Heisig realized that.

Regarding that I find it easier to remember the history of a character than a made-up story: that would most likely not apply if I had to, say, remember 30 characters in 30 minutes. But it does apply if I have to remember 1000 characters in one year, because I find it more interesting and stimulating to study that way.

Also, I'd like to point out that by studying the historical evolution of a character, you gain knowledge that can be used to infer the meaning, reading, and evolution of other characters, which might seem nonsensical otherwise. This frequently happens when the present meaning of a character is borrowed, but it occurs as an element of other characters with its historical meaning.

Anyway, to each his own, but I'd be very interesting to know how many of those (not Chinese or Korean) who pass JLPT 1 every year have tried/liked RTK. Sorry to be provocative again, but I think they're not so many... What do you think? I've never met anyone with JLPT 1-level Japanese skills who said he'd used RTK (although I'm sure there are some who have).

PS Currently, when studying for JLPT 1, I don't study kanji separately, but only indirectly when doing reading exercises and using flash cards for training vocabulary (always with furigana). 2000 kanji are easy compared to building a 10,000 word vocabulary, I think.

Anonymous Monday, December 24, 2007 6:49:25 PM

Anonymous writes: You're a bellend, I think.

Anonymous Monday, January 7, 2008 1:12:50 AM

Colin writes: Hefa, You say that 'nothing beats studying the true history of the characters'. Whilst this may be of interest to someone who appreciates history, the majority of English (or any other language) speakers don't even know about their own language. English has evolved/changed in so many English speaking countries - America, Canada, Australia, South Africa, India...and many other former colonies of the British Empire. Which one speaks proper English? Most English speakers don't even know that English has Germanic roots. I've seen some appalling grammar and spelling by British people. I would rather use the language effectively in my field than know where it comes from (if I had to choose between the two). Sports coaches/reporters know all about the sport (history, tradition, trivia) but I'd rather be the player who goes out there and scores a touchdown/home run! But, whatever works for you...

Henrik Falckhefa Monday, January 7, 2008 5:18:10 AM

Colin,

I meant 'nothing beats studying the true history of the characters' for the purpose of learning Japanese (for the purpose of speaking the language). Eating barbecued chicken beats studying the history of kanji in itself as well. Sorry for being unclear.

Immacolata Sunday, May 18, 2008 2:47:02 PM

Studying the true history of the character in it self doesn't help matters. It is the same with RTK, the system alone does not make you capable of learning kanji. It demands hard work no matter how you do it, and the RTK way is one option among many attempts at making a "system" to learn japanese characters.

As I have gained more experience, I've come to the same conclusion as most other students: drilling and using the language brings you near your goal, RTK is no fancy pill but merely a means to an end.

Anonymous Monday, September 22, 2008 5:50:24 PM

Mentat writes: Hy Hefa, your strawman argument about RTKers not doing 1k JLPT is false. I know a few. I've started RTK in july and finished in september doing self study. My progress is recorded in RevTK forums: http://kanji.koohii.com/ In this short time I've come from not being able to do not even 4k to a 40% in 2k (yeah, still not enough to pass). But I'm going for 1k next year, and I know I'm gonna get it. About studying the real history of the characters: That is must be very interesting, but it is slow. Some kids are succeding to finish RTK in 30 days. One of these kids was agaist RTK and invented his own method (based on RTK). He bundled the readings in his method and in 30 days he remembered not only the 2042 characters from heisig's book but also the on yomi of these characters. http://drmoviemethod.blogspot.com/ So RTK is not perfect, but it is an alternative. If your method works so well, please write a book or blog about it, as alyks did with his movie method.

Anonymous Saturday, February 6, 2010 10:37:13 AM

MK writes: Henrik I'm as skeptical as you of this, but I'm trying it all the same. I don't think I'll give up my other flashcards or word studies, but I am dedicating a little time towards building after the RTK progression. I do have a JLPT 1 friend who used it, and he said it was good for learning a lot quickly, but eventually he turned to other methods to round out his practice. Actually RTK is more useful for JLPT 1 I think then say everyday life in Japan. I'm actually more skeptical of RTK because I live in Japan and simply learning all the kanji in a less than directly applicable to life fashion just isn't in my own best interest. Still, it's worth some investigation, as opposed to simply "I don't think it'd work." That's not even really an argument.

Anonymous Monday, February 15, 2010 4:37:27 PM

Loxias writes: I started RTK, about 35 days ago, I am currently at 620 kanji. I am planning on increasing my speed a bit soon. So far I am thoroughly enjoying it, and I personally don't find Heisig's stories to be bad, some of them are a bit counterintuitive, but some of them worked very well. However, imo, the real fun starts when he leaves us off to make our own stories. I find it to be a really fun game, and as much as it makes us learn, it also oils the mechanisms of our imagination. Which is a plus for people having an artistic activity in parallel. It is almost a regret to me, that very fast, the little stories disappear to just leave the kanji and its meaning, although of course, it's a lot more functional. However, I do notice that as I am only focusing on the RTK at the moment, my grammar skills earned before a getting rusty. I am going to have to find a way to keep them up. If anyone has a suggestion...

Anonymous Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:50:54 AM

Anonymous writes: >>You're a bellend, I think.

Henrik Falckhefa Sunday, March 7, 2010 3:08:05 AM

Funny that this discussion is still on going smile

I created this page to debate the issue: Remembering The Kanji Is Bad (Or Is It?)

Anonymous Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:23:17 AM

infractus writes: H. Failck: I like how you copied this articles arguments almost word for word. You are, indeed, a bellend.

Anonymous Tuesday, July 13, 2010 9:04:12 PM

Chris writes: It's ridiculous to assume that you can attain fluency while ignorantly leaving out fundamental aspects of learning a language. Heisig does not cover word compounds, pronunciation, or utilization in sentences. I cannot stress enough that followers of Heisig are sacrificing the ability to use what they've learned in multiple methods ie: conversation and listening for speed in learning kanji. The language has no shortcuts. After trying Heisig's method, I realized I was using english references to make connections in Japanese. This maybe helpful temporarily but I'm sure at some point serious students will want to advance the efficiency of learning by using Japanese references. For me, seeing new kanji in sentences, learning the pronunciation, learning how to use them grammatically, using a Japanese to Japanese dictionary to understand the meaning, finding the compounds that consist of each kanji, using the pronunciation of the compounds to add new vocabulary to my conversations, and finally utilizing the compounds in my own writing, has greatly facilitated the learning of kanji. I strongly believe that one kanji that is completely mastered (a student knows and understands most if not all uses of it) is much better than ten kanji where the meaning is the only part that is understood. It is a slow process to study each kanji and gain "mastery", but the perseverance yields a far greater reward than what Heisig offers.

Anonymous Monday, August 9, 2010 12:44:22 PM

Anonymous writes: What part of learning even just the stroke order of 2000+ kanji in less than half a year is a waste of time... Let alone atleast one of the actual meaning's of each in English... I'm confused - after a week, I am over the first hundred, and I have already spotted some of them in the bleach anime series, being used exactly for the keyword I learnt for them. Yes the story's for them suck quite a bit at times, but, the sheer fact that I have already seen a few kanji's and known what they meant (lucky or not) makes me a very very happy man. Needless to say, feeling comfortable with a kanji, let alone 2000+, is a good place to be. I'd rather be there with 2000, than a few hundred in the time dedicated (we have a long time to get used to the other meanings, and their readings) 2 cents dropped. Bye :D

Anonymous Wednesday, February 2, 2011 2:20:03 AM

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Anonymous Friday, May 13, 2011 7:37:26 AM

匿名 writes: The entire arguments of "your other language skills go to waste" and "thinking you can learn a language using a book solely comprised of English is a joke" are ridiculously absurd. In the introduction itself H. points out that his purpose is not to teach you Japanese! I don't think anyone that actually uses the book is dumb enough to think they are learning Japanese while learning meaning and strokes for kanji. It seems to be an argument reserved for people who hate the book based mostly on the fact that it isn't the traditional method. Of course, I know loads of people who studied Japanese in college for 4 years and KNOW (write, reading, meaning etc) about 800 kanji - give or take. SO.. essentially I'm being told that investing 4 years of very hard, boring rote work to know 800 or so kanji is the superior method than spending 5 months to learn the meaning and how to write 2,000 kanji. Give me a break. Also, I know people who have finished the 1st book and can at the least get by in their life in Japan. Sure, while they are "translating" something it reads out like archaic gibberish but they can do more than those suckers who spent 4 years at University and don't even know the MEANING of over half the commonly used kanji. Again, the idea that knowing at the minimum the meaning of kanji is somehow worse than not knowing them at all is stupid. No one would ever suggest using this book as the sole tool for learning the language. You still need to study vocab, grammar etc. In my case I'm lucky to live in Japan so I can talk with locals, ask people about grammar stuff, study vocab I pick up from conversations I overhear, use other Japanese study tools etc. RTK is only one aspect of my study of the language. A quick note: I spent the first year in Japan not learning a single kanji (outside of ones you'd have to be dense not to pick up) but instead focused solely on conversation. I'm in my 2nd year here. I then used the traditional rote method and said "F this" after about 10 kanji. I turned to RTK and have not regretted a second of it. As someone mentioned earlier it has already created problems (read: made easier) some of my vocab practice (Japanese -> English) as I recognize the kanji when I really want to learn the word's pronounciation. Japanese students take 15 years to learn their kanji; RTK teaches you the meanings in a few months. Even if it took 2 years to round out the readings that's over a decade better than the Japanese themselves do. Quit hating.

Anonymous Monday, May 16, 2011 1:30:46 AM

Anonymous writes: U R damn right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous Monday, May 16, 2011 1:31:07 AM

Anonymous writes: U R damn right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous Thursday, June 9, 2011 10:56:11 AM

Anonymous writes: Too silly. Stop getting your frustrations out in the open and start studying. I studied chinese and japanese for ten years, and thanks to Heisig i made more progress in 6 months than in the decade before that. Thanks,mr. Heisig. You are a genius.

Anonymous Tuesday, July 26, 2011 6:54:11 AM

AnotherBird writes: The Hesign method isn't Japanese. It is a method to help people remember Kanji, but their are many other methods that proved more advantages. The Heisig method is an excellent method for remembering how to write Kanji. Beyond it doesn't seem to really facillicate learning Japanese. I have spend 2 hours a day on average studying Japanese, and have been able to learn the first 1006 Kanji. I am currently working on the next 306 Kanji. This includes the correct writing method, meaning, onyomi, kunyumi, and the meaning of many words. I know how to look up Kanji in a Kanji dictionary, and can guess the reading of unknown Kanji. These are things that are not possible with the Heisig method. RTK does have the correct stroke order for each Kanji, but doesn't include the instructions for the correct writing technique. The later is something that I am also working on improving. RTK advocate like to refer to radicals as traditional radicals, and make up their own components. Some of the stories about the Kanji have absolutely nothing to do with how they were formed. RTK is based on an English perception of Japanese, not an English interpation of the History of Kanji. It will help in retaining some meanings of Kanji. I have no doubts about the effectiveness in RTK in memorizing Japanese. However, there is more to Japanese than only memorizing Kanji. There is a genunie problem of learning Japanese outside of Japan. That is learning how to read, write, and pronounce both Kana. Japanese isn't a dificult language to learn. However, the focus must be on learning Japanese. There are no short cuts, only a lot of difficult work. My suggestion is to use RTK only as a supplementary material, or not at all. Focus on understanding words, grammar, and pronouncation. If the desire is to read and write, don't neglect learning how to write Japanese correct. My method is the 国語式 (The Japanese Language Method).

Anonymous Tuesday, July 26, 2011 6:58:02 AM

Anthony writes: The Heisig method isn't Japanese. It is a method to help people remember Kanji, but their are many other methods that proved more advantages. The Heisig method is an excellent method for remembering how to write Kanji. Beyond it doesn't seem to really facilitate learning Japanese. I have spend 2 hours a day on average studying Japanese, and have been able to learn the first 1006 Kanji. I am currently working on the next 306 Kanji. This includes the correct writing method, meaning, onyomi, kunyumi, and the meaning of many words. I know how to look up Kanji in a Kanji dictionary, and can guess the reading of unknown Kanji. These are things that are not possible with the Heisig method, and ignored by those advocating the method. RTK does have the correct stroke order for each Kanji, but doesn't include the instructions for the correct writing technique. The later is something that I am also working on improving. RTK advocate like to refer to radicals as traditional radicals, and make up their own components. Some of the stories about the Kanji have absolutely nothing to do with how they were formed. RTK is based on an English perception of Japanese, not an English interpretation of the History of Kanji. It will help in retaining some meanings of Kanji. I have no doubts about the effectiveness in RTK in memorizing Japanese. However, there is more to Japanese than only memorizing Kanji. There is a genuine problem of learning Japanese outside of Japan. That is learning how to read, write, and pronounce both Kana. Japanese isn't a difficult language to learn. However, the focus must be on learning Japanese. There are no short cuts, only a lot of difficult work. My suggestion is to use RTK only as a supplementary material, or not at all. Focus on understanding words, grammar, and pronunciation. If the desire is to read and write, don't neglect learning how to write Japanese correct. My method is the 国語式 (The Japanese Language Method).

Anonymous Saturday, January 14, 2012 8:39:49 AM

Anonymous writes: im learning japanese and i dont know why people says heisig method is the best, i consider that rtk is the worst method please dont even try it, you are learning japanese, not english + kanji. i know most people says it is great method to remember the kanji. but it is not the kanji itself it is the strokes and its meaning. but that is not exactly kanji it could be hanzi too, if you think rtk is for learning "kanji" then you are "learning" hanzi too . for example rtk will teach you how to recognize cat in kanji, and hanzai(猫). but do you know how to say cat in japanese, dont think so. you should learn kanji like a japanese. onyomi and kunyomi 猫=ねこ(neko-kunyomi),ビョウ(byō-onyomi)=cat. now if you dont want to learn japanese then go ahead with rtk. 猫=cat.

Anonymous Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:40:49 PM

Mets writes: Reading through some of the comments: it should be obvious Heisig doesn't teach you Japanese - it only teaches you the writing of each kanji. After that you still have to learn readings, grammar and perhaps meanings of kanji actually used by Japanese people. That said, I (and it seems very many other people) have learned a seemingly incredible amount of kanji (writing) in a matter of 2-5 months, which makes the rest of the process that much easier. Goes without saying that you're still going to have to use other resources...

Anonymous Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:41:18 PM

Mets writes: Reading through some of the comments: it should be obvious Heisig doesn't teach you Japanese - it only teaches you the writing of each kanji. After that you still have to learn readings, grammar and perhaps meanings of kanji actually used by Japanese people. That said, I (and it seems very many other people) have learned a seemingly incredible amount of kanji (writing) in a matter of 2-5 months, which makes the rest of the process that much easier. Goes without saying that you're still going to have to use other resources...

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