Objections to Heisig and Remembering the Kanji
Wednesday, 28. June 2006, 10:00:00
Students who have sought out information about teaching themselves Kanji the Heisig way with Remembering the Kanji will probably have met one or more objections to the method.
1) You waste time studying dead kanji with silly mnemonics but sounds. You know 2042 stupid stories that you have no use for when you are done.
2) All the repetition you do could have been spent better repeating vocabulary instead.
3) Heisig's order of learning kanji is completely off the charts. You learn difficult ones too fast, and save needed ones for last.
4) The best way to learn japanese kanji is to use them in context. So learn lots of words and they will come to you.
5) You must learn japanese by doing everything at once, focusing on one bit will automatically lead to neglect of the rest. Grammar, conversation, reading, writing, kanji etc. all hangs together.
6) Silly stories in your head is waste of effort in learning japanese.
I was partially agreeing with the first argument for a while. But taking a japanese course in addition to my kanji studies did reveal one benefit. when meeting words, I often knew a bit about what they meant even before I could read them out loud. The more I progressed, the easier it became to tie meaning and sound to the kanji. At this stage you must rely on pure memorization power.
Also, you cannot skip ahead and mix book 1 and book 2. Heisig system is rather orthodox in its unorthodoxy here: Do as you are told, or fail.
Now argument 2, the repetition, actually is a great convenience today. I have a rock solid repetition scheme running in SuperMemo 2004, and adding vocabulary to that is a walk in the park. The useless mnemonics from argument 1 is a boon. They don't stick for ever, you know, they are replaced by mere recognition. And I gained a valuable insight in how my mind works which I use for further studies.
The order of the kanjis can be a problem if you are too slow working through the book. I spent around 7 months from start to finish of this book. Too long by a month or two, but I managed to complete it before I finished my japanese course. I would say you should really strive to complete the book in 3-4 months. Then the order of the kanji will be a small problem. Story sharing is essential to complete the book fast for most people. So do it in context of some online community or with your japanese co students.
Now, Ive been told by many how you learn japanese best. context, do it all and it sticks. It is probably very japanese way of thinking. Do everything a lot of times and you become a master. Notice how everything takes 10 year in Japan? Sushi chefs are educated for 10 years before they are masters. Karate champions toil for 10 years before they are masters. Virtuoso musicians played till they bled for 10 years. Etc. etc. Wax on, wax off - 1000 times, Daniel-san.
Now, in my country we are probably too scared of repetition nowadays. Its hard work and boring, and viewed as an inferior learning method. It has its merits. But trying to repeat all aspects of the language at once leads to disorganization, at least for me. If you are dragged screaming through a rigorious university course or other, you might not notice that. But doing japanese on your own it is an essential way to do it.Because the Heisig method has one super benefit: It slices out one particular, troublesome aspect of the chaotic mess that it is to be learning japanese and puts it into a rigig system. There is a method, a clear chart of the work ahead of you that builds upon the work you previously did.
Not only is it a huge morale boost when you do complete the book, you also can continue with RTK2 and KanjiTown method to make further progress. Your silly little mnemonics and stories are suddenly turning into powerful silver bullets for building stories that ties memorization and places into sound. All this while you dabble in conversation, grammar and reading of canned text. If you thought the idea presented in RTK1 was smart, you have NO idea what wonders lie in wait for you when you begin kanjitown approach with RTK2.
And the really powerful bit is that you know how to draw just about every kanji there is, almost correctly, since you are intimately familiar with the elements and meaning of them without having to write each kanji 1000 times. You are no ワープロ馬鹿 who is unable to get by without IME. But do not expect your hand written kanji to impress anyone. It takes careful calligraphy classes (10 years!) to really be able to write kanji beautifully.
As someone mentioned on the kanji boards, finishing RTK has made him ask himself what other "Impossible things can I can accomplish."
1) You waste time studying dead kanji with silly mnemonics but sounds. You know 2042 stupid stories that you have no use for when you are done.
2) All the repetition you do could have been spent better repeating vocabulary instead.
3) Heisig's order of learning kanji is completely off the charts. You learn difficult ones too fast, and save needed ones for last.
4) The best way to learn japanese kanji is to use them in context. So learn lots of words and they will come to you.
5) You must learn japanese by doing everything at once, focusing on one bit will automatically lead to neglect of the rest. Grammar, conversation, reading, writing, kanji etc. all hangs together.
6) Silly stories in your head is waste of effort in learning japanese.
I was partially agreeing with the first argument for a while. But taking a japanese course in addition to my kanji studies did reveal one benefit. when meeting words, I often knew a bit about what they meant even before I could read them out loud. The more I progressed, the easier it became to tie meaning and sound to the kanji. At this stage you must rely on pure memorization power.
Also, you cannot skip ahead and mix book 1 and book 2. Heisig system is rather orthodox in its unorthodoxy here: Do as you are told, or fail.
Now argument 2, the repetition, actually is a great convenience today. I have a rock solid repetition scheme running in SuperMemo 2004, and adding vocabulary to that is a walk in the park. The useless mnemonics from argument 1 is a boon. They don't stick for ever, you know, they are replaced by mere recognition. And I gained a valuable insight in how my mind works which I use for further studies.
The order of the kanjis can be a problem if you are too slow working through the book. I spent around 7 months from start to finish of this book. Too long by a month or two, but I managed to complete it before I finished my japanese course. I would say you should really strive to complete the book in 3-4 months. Then the order of the kanji will be a small problem. Story sharing is essential to complete the book fast for most people. So do it in context of some online community or with your japanese co students.
Now, Ive been told by many how you learn japanese best. context, do it all and it sticks. It is probably very japanese way of thinking. Do everything a lot of times and you become a master. Notice how everything takes 10 year in Japan? Sushi chefs are educated for 10 years before they are masters. Karate champions toil for 10 years before they are masters. Virtuoso musicians played till they bled for 10 years. Etc. etc. Wax on, wax off - 1000 times, Daniel-san.
Now, in my country we are probably too scared of repetition nowadays. Its hard work and boring, and viewed as an inferior learning method. It has its merits. But trying to repeat all aspects of the language at once leads to disorganization, at least for me. If you are dragged screaming through a rigorious university course or other, you might not notice that. But doing japanese on your own it is an essential way to do it.Because the Heisig method has one super benefit: It slices out one particular, troublesome aspect of the chaotic mess that it is to be learning japanese and puts it into a rigig system. There is a method, a clear chart of the work ahead of you that builds upon the work you previously did.
Not only is it a huge morale boost when you do complete the book, you also can continue with RTK2 and KanjiTown method to make further progress. Your silly little mnemonics and stories are suddenly turning into powerful silver bullets for building stories that ties memorization and places into sound. All this while you dabble in conversation, grammar and reading of canned text. If you thought the idea presented in RTK1 was smart, you have NO idea what wonders lie in wait for you when you begin kanjitown approach with RTK2.
And the really powerful bit is that you know how to draw just about every kanji there is, almost correctly, since you are intimately familiar with the elements and meaning of them without having to write each kanji 1000 times. You are no ワープロ馬鹿 who is unable to get by without IME. But do not expect your hand written kanji to impress anyone. It takes careful calligraphy classes (10 years!) to really be able to write kanji beautifully.
As someone mentioned on the kanji boards, finishing RTK has made him ask himself what other "Impossible things can I can accomplish."








dalu # 28. June 2006, 13:28
This is obviously the common comment by someone who didn't even try going past 30-40 kanji. It took around 200 kanji for me to realize how the stories you created will "vanish" from your memory but the link between the image and the meaning will stay. It's true, with Heisig method you learn how your mind really works.
I'm glad I didn't listen to the critics
But I have to say that a more contextual approach could be complementary while working on the heisig's list. However this should be done by the student himself and not by the book. Linking kanji to words I already know helps a lot, especially if I cannot make a very "memorable" story.
One objection I have to add is that Heisig's stories suck. Really.
And also too many primitive meanings are a bit awkward, not enough true-to-life.
hefa # 28. November 2006, 05:58
For me, nothing beats studying the true history of the characters. Even though it should be ten times harder to memorize, I find it much easier to remember the true story than forcing myself to memorize Heisig's stories or my own. The true history is much more interesting, and besides, you gain real-world usable and interesting knowledge as well.
Also, whatever gave him the idea of not printing the pronunciations along with the characters in the first place...? Look at how Japanese people see the kanji characters: They don't associate silly stories and meanings to them; they associate sounds and words to them! And from my own experience, as Japanese language skills have evolved, that's how it has become for me as well.
Kids: Say no to Heisig! Stay out of school and do real study instead.
Anyway, whatever suits you... Heisig might work for you... But I strongly recommend everyone against even trying.
Immacolata # 3. December 2006, 16:11
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/miscPublications/Remembering_the_Kanji_1.htm
However, RTK2 isn't that good except for the indexes. With RTK1 + chains you are going to get there. The chaining makes you able to remember scores of kanji yomis at once.
And why bother with etymologi? There is no need to reinvent the wheel for each kanji. It might be interesting, yes, but ultimately just as useless as Heisig's mnemonics. The goal is to forget the mnemonics and just remember the signs without the intensive work using rote memorization and not your smarts.
Anonymous # 23. February 2007, 16:54
I think that people that criticize RTK because you only learn to recognize the kanjis are missing the point. I went to school and attended Japanese classes to learn only a few dozen kanjis, in no particular order except that it was required from the texts we were reading. After feeling sort of discouraged by the task ahead, a friend of mine gave a sample of RTK and inside of a month, I could already write around 300 of them. Living in Japan, I was able to learn other - and perhaps more accurate - meanings of the kanjis naturally. I think the book can give you a great leap forward and I know for a fact that is it the best method so far to remember the kanjis. The idea of first recognizing the kanjis and then switching to their pronunciation is a great one because you can advance faster and feel progress.
Of course, no one should only stick to only one method and you shouldn't stop from learning other aspects of the language because you are doing this book. This is one of the tools to help you achieve your goal. It would be like saying that the Pimsleur tapes can teach you the whole Japanese language, of course not! But it doesn't hurt to use it as a complementary tool, just as RTK. The book has its flaws but so far, if it has survived for so long and people still use it, I guess it is not as bad as some people would claim.
hefa # 24. February 2007, 06:01
Anonymous # 4. June 2007, 10:20
hefa,
It is interesting to hear you say that you used RTK as part of a class.
Heisig specifically said in the introduction (I have the 4th Ed) that he had never seen his technique used in a classroom setting and that he suspected it would fail miserably if one were to try.
Thank you for validating his suspicion.
RTK is fundamentally a self-study method. I think if I were forced to advance in a classroom setting and/or forced to adopt the method I would end up hating it as much as you. Your argument that history's story is easier to remember than your OWN story makes no sense to us RTK'ers but that is not the point -- I think it works for you because you adopted it of your own accord and not as part of a class.
hefa # 5. June 2007, 01:47
Regarding that I find it easier to remember the history of a character than a made-up story: that would most likely not apply if I had to, say, remember 30 characters in 30 minutes. But it does apply if I have to remember 1000 characters in one year, because I find it more interesting and stimulating to study that way.
Also, I'd like to point out that by studying the historical evolution of a character, you gain knowledge that can be used to infer the meaning, reading, and evolution of other characters, which might seem nonsensical otherwise. This frequently happens when the present meaning of a character is borrowed, but it occurs as an element of other characters with its historical meaning.
Anyway, to each his own, but I'd be very interesting to know how many of those (not Chinese or Korean) who pass JLPT 1 every year have tried/liked RTK. Sorry to be provocative again, but I think they're not so many... What do you think? I've never met anyone with JLPT 1-level Japanese skills who said he'd used RTK (although I'm sure there are some who have).
PS Currently, when studying for JLPT 1, I don't study kanji separately, but only indirectly when doing reading exercises and using flash cards for training vocabulary (always with furigana). 2000 kanji are easy compared to building a 10,000 word vocabulary, I think.
Anonymous # 24. December 2007, 18:49
You're a bellend, I think.
Anonymous # 7. January 2008, 01:12
Hefa,
You say that 'nothing beats studying the true history of the characters'.
Whilst this may be of interest to someone who appreciates history, the majority of English (or any other language) speakers don't even know about their own language. English has evolved/changed in so many English speaking countries - America, Canada, Australia, South Africa, India...and many other former colonies of the British Empire. Which one speaks proper English? Most English speakers don't even know that English has Germanic roots.
I've seen some appalling grammar and spelling by British people. I would rather use the language effectively in my field than know where it comes from (if I had to choose between the two). Sports coaches/reporters know all about the sport (history, tradition, trivia) but I'd rather be the player who goes out there and scores a touchdown/home run! But, whatever works for you...
hefa # 7. January 2008, 05:18
I meant 'nothing beats studying the true history of the characters' for the purpose of learning Japanese (for the purpose of speaking the language). Eating barbecued chicken beats studying the history of kanji in itself as well. Sorry for being unclear.
Immacolata # 18. May 2008, 14:47
As I have gained more experience, I've come to the same conclusion as most other students: drilling and using the language brings you near your goal, RTK is no fancy pill but merely a means to an end.
Anonymous # 22. September 2008, 17:50
Hy Hefa, your strawman argument about RTKers not doing 1k JLPT is false.
I know a few.
I've started RTK in july and finished in september doing self study.
My progress is recorded in RevTK forums:
http://kanji.koohii.com/
In this short time I've come from not being able to do not even 4k to a 40% in 2k (yeah, still not enough to pass). But I'm going for 1k next year, and I know I'm gonna get it.
About studying the real history of the characters: That is must be very interesting, but it is slow. Some kids are succeding to finish RTK in 30 days.
One of these kids was agaist RTK and invented his own method (based on RTK). He bundled the readings in his method and in 30 days he remembered not only the 2042 characters from heisig's book but also the on yomi of these characters.
http://drmoviemethod.blogspot.com/
So RTK is not perfect, but it is an alternative. If your method works so well, please write a book or blog about it, as alyks did with his movie method.