Opera Otaku

For me, it has always been 'because Opera lets you control the web'. I've never tried to 'sell' Opera to my almost technophobic parents, until last year they really needed control: in their case, a zoom function that really zooms everything, including Flash games.

When people ask us why they should use Opera...

My fellow just have asked me (I was in "brOwse me" t-shirt) same question: "why you are using Opera and why it's better than anything else?". And the best answer at that time I found was: "You should just try to see the difference... because every person has different needs, etc." You right, if I asked him first what sites he used everyday, his habits and problems, I could anwer him more precisely. But here I see a little problem -- most of the people use famous and popular Microsoft, Google and Yahoo online services some of which don't work or have problems with Opera (Local Live from MS, Google Docs & Spreadsheets, Yahoo Mail beta just to name couple). So, I can't really recommend to not-so-geeky-someone who use one of those services to even try Opera, because in that case I should talk long about some patches via UserJS, etc.
Other fellow I know, used to use Firefox but switched recently to IE 7 because he "grown up already and don't have time" to find answers why Firefox doesn't work with some online TV site that he uses.
BTW, I just asked my lovely wife why she use Opera. She answered that "she just accustomed to keyboard shortcuts and some useful features like full page zoom".
On a side note I have to say -- t-shirts works -- people start asking me about Opera sometimes.

yeah, to me, the two big selling points of opera are:

1. it puts you in the driver's seat. Pretty much everything is tweakable. and not by downloading some extension that doesn't quite do what you want, or recoding and recompiling. but seriously, when you install, there's VERY little you can't change yourself (although if really want to get seriously, you're going to have to dig for it)

2. the email client rules. it's like gmail without having to deal w/ the internet (I don't know if you can get away w/ marketing like that, but that's sure the angle I'd be taking: 'all the benefits of Outlook downloading your email; all the flexibility of gmail's great interface.'

Originally posted by Rijk:

...until last year they really needed control: in their case, a zoom function that really zooms everything, including Flash games.

I use zoom a lot too for reading and for online Flash video and games (I have 1600x1200 display resolution, but most Flash games are 640x480, so it's very handy to use zoom because almost all Flash are vector graphics).
BTW, sometimes I have big problems with using zoom in Opera for Windows since version 7 (look for increasing list of affected sites).

My little brother (14 years old), who doesn't know anything about browsers, just switched from Internet Explorer to Firefox. Why? Because it was fun and cool. The features, the usability didn't matter.

In my opinion, the basic user will use session saving and quick notes. Other insteresting features for them are already included in Internet Explorer or Firefox.

For the time being, Opera isn't cool enough. When it will become, I think that Opera will have its chances.

I would like to make several statements.

First: IMHO Opera is made not for browsing something, Opera is made for... USER! YES! As a user I feel that YOU guys at Opera Software care about ME to make MY life easier. Look and feel, additional information in status bar, smart menu layout, UseJS to fix issues and so on makes MY life easier. Opera is a pleasure to use and this is why I use it and recommend to others. You listened to almost every my message or e-mail about what kind of improvements I need and I thank You for that!

Second: as a user and web-developer I need more people to start using Opera because it will force many web-developers to react and fix their broken sites.

And third: when I used Opera for a first time back in Opera 5 days it was only a cool browser. Now Opera is a big community. Opera is people behind it who use it and/or make it.

What else can I say? Opera is a big world and I'm part of it. It makes me proud! Opera is not a browser, Opera is a platform. Software platform and social platform mixed together in a perfect way. Also I would like to point that maybe not everyone should be invited - some people may broke social network of Opera users.

P.S. The only thing I dislike is drag'n'drop of selected text in address bar - how to turn it off? I've been writting about this since first time this bug-o-feature appeared but noone responded.

P.P.S. Your poll reminded me to check if sending goods to Latvia is not supported and YEAH! AT LAST! I can buy some Opera stuff!

imho the coolest features about opera are the tabs (supperior to those from ff, although v.2 made some improvements, and IE 7's - they are really crap), userjs and mail with integrated newsfeeds. the widgets still need some improvement, but they could get a real killer feature too.

Why I use Opera?

I could easily and happily use Firefox instead of Opera, as a web browser. Of course, I'd miss some keyboard shortcuts, some mouse gestures, some customize options, zoom and other nice stuff.

Probably what makes me still use Opera is the mail client and page zoom. These two features alone are very important to me. The other features are nice bonuses.

Firefox always feels like a small "brother", light in features, nonetheless quite big in size .

Why should one switch to Opera?

If he uses Firefox already, then I don't see any compelling reason. It all depends on the features needed by the user. Does he want mail? Then he might like Opera more. Does he need page zoom? Then he should try Opera. Is he a "power user" who does everything with the keyboard? Then he would definitely like Opera.

The list goes on.

Regarding mail: if the user has Firefox and Thunderbird (or another email client), then Opera's Mail client also needs to be very good. Currently Opera's Mail client is not what I define "very good". I've tried the latest Thunderbird 2 beta 1: I can say I'd like some of its features, but it's not worth the hassle to switch to it. So, a user of Thunderbird needs to see lots of good features in Opera M2 in order to really have a reason to switch. Currently, there's none.


* * *


Speed, in my experience, is a good "selling" point for Opera. However, Opera is not really fast in all cases (freezes when checks email, feeds, loads pages, etc). This really makes new users unhappy and they switch back to IE/FF.

Most people don't really go for the "web control" part. They want their browser to "just work". They don't care why Gmail doesn't work. This is another really big issue: important sites do not work in Opera. I find myself recommending to friends to use Firefox.

Users also want stability. Once Opera has more users, it will become harder to come up with a new interface, or dramatically change existing functionality - unless the company is willing to accept loosing existing user base.

Look at Firefox current state (versus IE): it's much faster, standards compliant, developer tools, many user-friendly features, extensions, and almost all major sites working properly. Ask yourself: why would anyone use IE instead of Firefox? Is there any reason? Not that I can think of (unless extreme cases are given).

That's what Opera needs to be compared to Firefox. Make Opera sooo good you can't complain. For me, Opera is almost there. What's missing for me? Very good developer tools will be available (this is already happening, hopefully). What's missing for normal users as well? UI speed and all major sites working properly.

Having that, you'd give the chance to the user to discover new features in Opera - each day. He would start to like the browser very much. This happened to me at the beginning: I was learning why this browser is better for me than Firefox (I switched away from Firefox). Gladly, in my case, I didn't get disappointed by freezes when I started using Opera (I wasn't an M2 user from the start), and I didn't really care about the major sites not working (I knew before switching why they don't work).


Good luck guys!

Why is it important that more people know about and use Opera?
Its important for me because the more people use Opera, the bigger Opera will grow, that means, more developers improving it, and that means less bugs, and more great features.

Why is it important that more people know about and use Opera?

"your web, your choice."

I think it's just more important for more people to *know* about Opera than to actually use it. Awareness will help sort out the developer, rendering, programming... ie, the "behind the scenes" stuff. Others have responded about the "just want it to work" aspect...

I don't think, (nor necessarily want) standards to drive implementations (I say: "baseline on standards, innovate on implementation") but we can't let implemenations drive the standard. That's leads to the market share driving "what's right" which means there will never really be any choice.. you pick from the top two or three browser implementations or else it "just won't work." That said, I am a realist, and realize marketshare and popularity do make the world go around, but i still find things like this surprising from even OSS types. (see the comments for the discussion)


So knowledge of the browser is very important- but not as important as knowledge of standards. (I'm not a standards zealot by any means, I just see that is the only glue that will allow choice on the web). But as "other" browsers make big waves like Opera, people will realize that we can't just build the web around IE and Firefox and call it good.


Actual use? I don't really care all that much (I'm sure Opera does though). User interfaces are for users. No two users are the same, so I'm fine with people using IE7, Safari, or Firefox. I'm fine with people saying that "I can't use Opera because I can't drag the menus around..." or "I can't install the Stumble Upon extensions..." etc. People have different needs. I do think Opera does the best job of addressing the broadest range of needs right out of the box, and is customizable beyond recognition, but it doesn't do everything for everyone. Or (most likely) most people just simply are not bothered by what they have, or are not curious to know "is there something better out there?" -now that pop-ups have been summarily defeated by all browsers.

Opera allows you to customize, streamline and bespoke the browser to very exacting specifications, but it's a UI regardless. It doesn't have to be everything to everyone. Opera does do a good job of hiding/revealing features for those not interested (I couldn't even tell you if the version I'm using still *has* an IRC client built in, although I'm sure it does I haven't noticed it at all)

Finally- As Aux mentions up above, Opera cares about *me* they care about my client, how and I get work done. It's important to know about Opera to understand that innovation on the web is different than innovation on my desktop. Let the web run on standards with allowance for innovation and allow the browser makers to innovate for the user experience. This sums up what Opera is to me, and a shining example of why the world should know about it.

Off my soapbox a bit- (and to summarize):

-Keep the "open the web" initiatives going...

-Focus on the what the user needs... my first thought: "your data is sacred..." -Opera protects the user- session saving, continue from last time, trash can, cached history,tabs, tab locking- all these let the user browse without worrying about losing data. Confidence builds trust and comfort with the tools you're using, and enjoyment! And that all leads to efficiency and the willingness to explore and uncover other aspects of the browser that allows the user to grow into it.

This year, with the release of Opera for the Wii, and Opera Mini still going strong, I see Opera important because it allows users to access the web wherever they are. I have heard about a system that will allow people to access their bookmarks, etc. centrally through Opera, and I think that is a great idea on Opera's part. They should continue focus upon this idea throughout 2007.

Why is it important that more people know about and use Opera?

My answer: A better web for all.

Explanation:
Once Opera has enough market share that developers care about it enough, website compatibility is no issue anymore, and people can focus on the browser's features as reasons to use or not to use a browser.
And Opera's features can speed up everydays' browsing and working by one magnitude in cases. It makes browsing the web more convenient and I think that's good for anyone to experience.

For me the big selling point of opera is that it is a websuite - especially because of the mail client. All in one. I don't have to start 5 programs but one, I don't have to upgrade 5 programs but one to be secure and to have a stable program. Except for the occasional website that doesn't work precisely as it's meant to Opera is simply hassle-free. Plus, it can be customized to suit my needs pretty well. Last but not least, if you have a problem, you ask in the forum and you get a qualified answer within an hour.

Now about converting other people to Opera, I've by now gone away from telling everyone "you have to use Opera!" - even IE is by now relatively secure if all updates are installed. So as long as people are happy with what they are using, why not let them continue use it? I advertise Opera when they become unhappy with their program, because something important to them doesn't work. Or if they ask me "how did you do that" when they see me use mouse gestures or whatever. The acceptance to try Opera is just so much higher then...

Oh, and http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=170253

Why is it important that more people know about and use Opera?

Very good question. I an afraid I have to use a metaphore to describe this.
If you live in a cave and used to flash light, you will not know the feeling of being enlightened with the "Sun light".

Could I make sense to it? Perhaps not.

Well human beings need to be like flying birds who can view the terrain underneath while flying in the sky.He/she will only stop by at his/her wish, will choose the time of singing according to wish, will migrate according to wish. Its all about freedom and choice for the quality. People need to know there is a cool and free way to explore the internet.

Someone is not moved by music until he/she listen to the fine tune of it. So, unless someone try, how they will know good an "opera" it is?

even IE is by now relatively secure if all updates are installed

Not at all! Sometimes I help people to fight with that often called "slowness of computer" which is in most cases a bunch of spyware. After I install them Opera or Firefox most of the people never called me back. There was cases when I left them a choice to use IE and after couple of month they usually call me back.
P.S. I don't have enough statistics right now to say if IE 7 any better...

Personally I promote Opera because I find it to be a better experiance than the other choices. Now, the selfish reason is because the more browsers that people use, the more browsers are developed for, and the more coding to standards happens.

That helps me, it helps me use a browser on Windows, Linux, MAC OS as well as use the browser I WANT to use.

I don't think the web should dictate a UI to me by dictating a browser.

And I see this as helping break the marketshare browser development model, and help Lynx users, Dillo users, cellphone browsers, etc also.

I find attempting to promote Opera rather hard on the sort of forums I visit. For example, whenever someone makes a thread asking which browser is the best to use, myself and a handfull of other suggest Opera, occasionally someone would tell them to stick with IE (I must admit IE7's also a very good browser in my opinion), and then there are about 50 or so posts suggesting Firefox. The thread creator usually sides with the majority and gets Firefox.

Thing is, the majority is the only thing that does it in this case. Most don't bother to give reasons for getting Fx, and the ones that do list reasons that are either untrue or also apply to other browsers.

When topics like these do arise, I mention how Opera is the most secure, generally the fastest, comes with a lot of features already built in, and sometimes I mention how it uses less RAM than Firefox. However, only two of these points are completely solid. Speed of the browser can also depend on hardware and what over programs you have running, so some browsers may end up faster. As for RAM usage, some reports of Opera using a lot of RAM can nullify this point. The features point is often argued by a Firefox user, pointing out how Fx has extensions covering Opera's features. And the strictness of the moderators in such boards means me replying by pointing out extensions can be unsecure and use up quite a bit of RAM can get me moderated for trolling.

Convincing someone to get Opera would be no hard task if it weren't for the fact that there are Firefox adverts plastered all over the place, and the fanboys have drilled into everyone's minds that Firefox is the best, and thus the majority say Firefox is the best. To help spread the word of Opera, one needs to not so much point out the good points of Opera, but to point out the bad points of the "get Firefox" argument.

This proves hard on most places I go, but I managed to convince someone to stick with IE as opposed to downloading Firefox (I would have suggested Opera, but for some reason he could only choose between IE and Fx) by pointing out the advantages of IE and the disadvantages of Fx. When I point out that IE's security is only slightly worse than Firefox's, that's one of the main arguments completely gunned down. I also add that IE is compliant with nearly all sites, whereas 15% don't work completely in Fx (and Opera, though this compliancy problem is the fault of the web designer, not the vendors), and how IE generally uses MUCH less RAM.

Now it may appear that I'm anti-Firefox. That is not really true, Firefox IS a good browser, I'm just sick to the teeth of beong told to get Firefox wherever I go, despite that Firefox really isn't that great.

It's not important that more people know and use Opera. There's no real benefit for it other than ego and I'd rather have less Opera fanboys making things hard for newer users to seek help in the forums or be steered away by myths and lies and fanatic banter like a majority of pro-Firefox discussions littering the net.

1. I'm not getting paid if Opera's market share increases.

2. While Opera supports open source programs like Linux, they are not open source themselves so mass support for it does not help the FOSS agenda.

3. Firefox has already taken up and successfully made people aware of alternative browsers.

4. Opera as of now has always strived to continue to produce a better product upgrade after upgrade. As long as the better product exists, users who discover it benefit from it.

It may be important though for others to know, that using Opera makes life easier for those who use multiple browsers.

On Windows, Opera gives other browser users an easier life when they need to browse the web for a long period of time.

Using Opera as a main browser along w/ IE6 means lots even for casual users. There's just so much to list: tabs, security, etc.

Using Opera as a main browser along w/ FF/Flock means you don't need to download all the extensions that mimic Opera's features which means less bloat for FF and less extensions to install/reinstall. On some users' Windows including mine, Opera is the browser that can handle the most tabs without slowing down. An added bonus is because of the size, Opera can be opened along with FF and barring a bug, it still won't eat up much vs. FF with lots of tabs and Opera as a secondary browser.

Using Opera as a main browser along w/ IE7 means better security and still currently more features than what IE has. Then there's the CPU consumption which I'm not sure can handle more tabs either. I've even read some say that IE 7 eats more than even FF. Even assuming that IE 7 and Opera have the same level of security, Opera's obscurity reduces the chance of it being exploited which still makes it a safer alternative.

For short term browsing, users can use K-meleon (the closest thing to Opera Lite on Windows?). Being both "small" browsers, users can afford to install both of them which is the most important thing in my opinion when using multiple browsers.

If there's a bright light to lots of people using Opera and a rare bright light that is, is if because of mass numbers Opera somehow manages to become the default browser for future version of Windows OS then the browser community would finally receive Maxthon Opera instead of Maxthon IE.

Originally posted by Trailing:

While Opera supports open source programs like Linux, they are not open source themselves so mass support for it does not help the FOSS agenda.

Open standards are more important than open source code. Promoting Opera means promoting open standards. Opera has actually put real money into open standards for many years.

Link to source?

Trailing- Here's a good place to look:
http://my.opera.com/community/openweb/info/
http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/

Ok, thanks. My mistake: I had read the reply as Open Standards = Open Source therefore Opera supports FOSS.

nelsson, I wasn't thinking of importance when I wrote that but rather by idealogy. The whole Support Freedom thing.

The problem with open standards is support for it means support for every browser who tries to abide by it. From what I understand, it just means mass support anything that can promote those standards and the goal will be achieve regardless whether someone uses Opera or not.

Trailing-

The problem with open standards is support for it means support for every browser who tries to abide by it

I don't understand- how is that a problem? How is that not Supporting Freedom? By supporting a standard instead of an implementation you are allowing freedom for browsers to innovate on the desktop/client instead of by gimmicking up the web to work only in their browser.

I'm not saying we shouldn't innovate on the web, just that it is utterly baffling to me how FOSS supporters don't think that opens standards rate very highly (see the comments in the link I posted up above).

If the whole point of FOSS is freedom over your software, to be able to do with it as you please, how can you have that software work on the web if there's no common ground?

I'm not sure I understand your statement, so please correct me if I'm reading you wrong.

Oh no, please don't assume I'm a representative of a FOSS supporter. I don't know enough to be one and yes, I do rate open standards as very important.

My statement was an answer to this question: Why is it important that more people know about and use Opera?

For me, more people does not = more open standards because the other 2 major browser, IE7 and FF are also moving towards that.

The importance of having more users for Opera is null in this case because there is always progress in that area and as long as Opera exists and is being used, there will be a tendency to move towards that no matter how many users increase.

Open Standards is more important Open Source.

I thought this CNET article (from 2003!) puts all very nicely.

Tie this back into the topic-

Why is it important? Knowledge of "alternative" browsers will ultimately make people realize that "oh- either we better have open standards or we're going to be limiting ourselves in the future."

I say again- Press hard on the Open the Web Initiatives. Innovate like heck on the desktop/client.

Oh- Well I agree then. I do think it's important to stress the open standards though because if you abstract "Opera" to just represent "the little guy" then you can see it's importance.

By stressing Open Standards Opera takes the role of representing freedom on the web for all browsers.

Why is it more important for people to know and use Opera?

Many browsing features we take for granted today are Opera innovations. Tabbed browsing, session saving, mouse gestures, you name it.

No browser can match Opera in speed and security.

Although it has a small market share, if Opera had never entered the browser industry, imagine what features other browsers would have.

Opera needs the users. It needs a higher market share, so webmasters will make their sites Opera-friendly.

And more users should get to enjoy the speed, security and features Opera has to offer.

That's my view. What's yours?

Rijk nailed it for me — control, and I'll follow that by customization. It's important for people to know that Opera is about giving users control, from setup to downloading to standards compliance, which is the opposite of what you're accustomed to with vendor lock-in. Don't like the way it looks? SHIFT+F12. Don't like the way something works? CTRL+F12.

Beyond this, I tend to convey that Opera is an advanced browser, meaning, you decide how deep you want to dive in, if at all. It's one of the few programs left where the developers listen to their users. That feels good.

IMHO, both very true, very important and very useful for Opera browser users:
1)

Originally posted by Rijk:

For me, it has always been 'because Opera lets you control the web'.

+1, a very strong reason indeed.

2)

Originally posted by nelsson:

Open standards are more important than open source code.

No doubt about it !

I may allowed to add three major arguments such like:
3) Speed
4) Security
5) eMail, RSS and browsing in one hand,

which may be considered by users as important as like as 1) and 2).

In retrospective view, I personally feel that since I am using Opera desktop browser 6.0x she has improved strongly indeed.

Sometimes it seems I am a hard criticizer of Opera... well -- versus I am a longstanding Opera Fan/ Lover -- so anyway fact is Opera is my favourite browser.

The market does not reflect my personal feelings for Opera, unfortunately.

But these days browsers might be one of the most used application on a user's desktop?

IMHO a way to gain more desktop browser market share might be better compatibilty and rendering speed on websites (best out of breed factor) and giving users a clever 'n' lighter UI (cool factor).

"Better compatibility" is easier said than done, because more often than not it's the site that actively breaks Opera, and not Opera that isn't compatible enough.

As for speed, it's already faster than the rest.

And the UI is as light as any other browser.

Each one to its own.

May I ask you nelsson, why in your very opinion Opera desktop browser market share, and according to Opera's partner HitsLink, is below 1% then?

Fact is, and according to both user stats and various post on my.opera fora, that Opera is not as compatible on common webpages and she is not rendering as quick as like as other browsers out there.

IMHO Opera desktop browser is a very good application, but according to almost every public stats (major market researchers) and regarding users's acceptance she's not. Right or wrong?

Make screenshots about major desktop browsers standard user interfaces, compare them and you might see it the other day, sooner or later you have no way but to admit that Opera hasn't the coolness as other desktop browsers out there.

Originally posted by idleskitter:

May I ask you nelsson, why in your very opinion Opera desktop browser market share, and according to Opera's partner HitsLink, is below 1% then?

Opera's caching is more aggressive than other browsers, making for fewer hits, especially to the web beacons stats sites use to gather stats. Furthermore, the companies that publish these stats do not have a representative sample of sites. They only track their own customers. For example, according to OneStat, startpagina.nl is the most popular site in the entire world.

Fact is, and according to both user stats and various post on my.opera fora, that Opera is not as compatible on common webpages

Wrong. That a site blocks Opera doesn't mean that Opera is not compatible with that site. It says nothing what so ever about Opera's capabilities.

That said, Opera works fine on "common webpages". There are some sites that block Opera, but that doesn't change the fact that Opera works fine on most. Or most don't block Opera.

and she is not rendering as quick as like as other browsers out there.

Wrong. According to objective measurements and market perception, Opera is the fastest browser.

IMHO Opera desktop browser is a very good application, but according to almost every public stats (major market researchers) and regarding users's acceptance she's not. Right or wrong?

Wrong. Most people don't know about Opera, and market share does not equal quality.

Make screenshots about major desktop browsers standard user interfaces, compare them and you might see it the other day, sooner or later you have no way but to admit that Opera hasn't the coolness as other desktop browsers out there.

This nonsensical subjective opinion passed off as fact can safely be ignored by rational human beings.

Oops.
You have taunted both my comments and Opera's partner HitsLink researches. Fair enough.
nelsson, your comments are substantive indeed.
Problem might be there are many other people out there who are able to search the internet and make up their own oppinion about what they get as result.
Seems fair enough also, right or wrong?

[edit]
Facts.
So please, each one on its own may want to read Opera partner HitlsLink latest (Feb 2007) statistics:
Browser Market Share for February, 2007
Top Browser Market Share Trend for March, 2006 to February, 2007
Top Browser Version Share Trend for March, 2006 to February, 2007
On some off these stats you may want to read up links pointing to each month since Feb 2006 to today (mid March 2007).
Make up your own conclusion.
[/edit]

Did you even bother to read my comment? I just explained to you why so-called "browser stats" are useless!

"Furthermore, the companies that publish these stats do not have a representative sample of sites. They only track their own customers."

The "facts" you present are unusable for the purpose you are trying to use them for.