In all seriousness
Tuesday, April 4, 2006 5:31:27 PM
The concept of "Human Rights" bugs me. It bugs me that people, usually secular such, walks merrily around proclaiming they have "a right" to this and "a right" to that.
On what grounds? Because your grandfather's grandmother's third cousin knew one of the guys writing your consitution, and you're still living in the same general geographical area as they made their laws for? Okay, then, maybe you've got "a right" to this and that as a citizen, as a member of the nation following this constitution.
But at what point does this "right" the collective you're dwelling in has decided to grant you become universal for all humans? What the hell gives you the right to say "this is a human right"? "The UN says so"? What the hell gives the UN the right to say what counts as human rights and, more importantly, what don't? Last I checked, not even one hundreth of a percentile of the humans supposedly covered by the "human rights" have a vote in the UN. If they're lucky, they might share one with a few million others.
In Norway, I think, and in Sweden, owning a television set is considered part of the bare minimum of what a person should have. If you don't have a job, if you don't have an income, if you don't have any money, the government finances, among other things, your television set. It is, basically, considered a right to have a television set. Oooookay? So, in Norway, we have more human rights than they do in, say, Kenya? Then it isn't human rights, people, then it isn't a right you have just for being a human. Then it's Norwegian rights. Rights you have for being a Norwegian human. And that's another matter entirely.
But even people making this distinction keeps nagging about human rights as if they were universal. The right not to be discriminated against. The right not to be abused. The right of "free speech", oh, that one's maybe the worst one.
What a load of bullocks that one is.
Where do these people who made these rights get them? Did they just have a gut instinct "this is something everybody should have a right to"? If they did, why is these people's gut instincts guidelines for international ethics? Or did they look to their culture, what was considered right and wrong, and pick out what was generally considered the essenatials? If so, why does these rules claim to be universal, and not British or French or American or at least Western? Because they sure as hell didn't get it written down by God.
And therein lies the heart of the matter. (Those who want to read the last sentence as "Which brings us to tonight's wørd" may feel free to do so.) Justification.
Secular Humanists are awfully fond of pointing to the "Human Rights". It's their only claim to universal authority, because they, as opposed to most other religious people, have no holy bidding granting them and their opinions this authority. And yet these "Rights" they love so much come from nowhere at all - if from anywhere, they're from societies shaped in centuries by Christian ethics.
And then, there's conflict. Of course, there's always conflict, so that's not new, but there you go anyway.
Doesn't everyone stand a right not to have his or her beliefs insulted? To be treated with respect? According to these "Human Rights" that is. But everyone also has the so-called right to say whatever the Gorm they please. Including lies. Including insults. No matter what you want to do, no matter how many other people's rights you violate, there's always one right or another which gives you the right, the justification, to do it.
And that's just the tip of the ice-berg.
Now, the reason I'm writing this post is that we (barely) touched the topic on a seminar earlier today, and my lecturer used a word I've never really thought about in this context before, but which seems obvious now.
Duty.
The point of the Human Rights, regardless of their justufications, is that they try to grant every human a certain amount of certainity, happyness and security in their lives. Doing that by giving people rights don't work (well). People like having rights. People like being able to scream about their rights being neglected. People, in general, like screaming, it seems. It's probably a universal character flaw, but there you go. We love each other nonetheless. We have the right to be loved, you see.
Nonsense.
We have the duty to love. We have the duty not to insult others. We have the duty to let others say what they mean. We have the duty not to steal stuff. And we have the duty not to shoot our hunting-comrade in the face.
Human Duty. Not Human Right. Bugger the Rights. Rights are for imbeciles. Duties are for people. The only justification, a collective wish for everyone to feel as good as possible at all times, is not for rights, it's a justification for duty.
And that's the wørd.








ErlendObdormio # Tuesday, April 4, 2006 5:39:32 PM
Also, "People, in general, like screaming."
You can't see it, but I'm quoting you on this.
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Tuesday, April 4, 2006 5:46:10 PM
I know. I didn't stress that point because, well, it wasn't my point, but I know, and I tried to hint at it. I'm not religious. I wish I were, though, I wish I had the ability to. Seemingly, I don't. I'm too much of a sceptic. I need a logical, irrefutable explanation on something before I believe in it, and even then I do it only tentatively. That attitude, that mind-set, makes for a very bad believer.
"Also, "People, in general, like screaming."
You can't see it, but I'm quoting you on this."
Oooooh, where? :D
ErlendObdormio # Tuesday, April 4, 2006 5:47:29 PM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Tuesday, April 4, 2006 5:54:15 PM
In an Excel sheet?
Er, let me give that one more try...
No, dammit, fresh out of tries.
So, where the bloody Helheim, burning Muspelheim and sodding Niflheim do you mean? ;_;
ErlendObdormio # Tuesday, April 4, 2006 6:09:12 PM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Tuesday, April 4, 2006 6:19:24 PM
ErlendObdormio # Tuesday, April 4, 2006 6:25:17 PM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Tuesday, April 4, 2006 6:59:02 PM
Turns out, people, Obdormio has a randomly appearing bunch of quotes on the moderator-menu of his webpage - he SHOULD have them on the reader-page, of course, and impress people, but he doesn't, so let us deal with it and move on, moving on, moved on - and now, I'm the author of one of these quotes. I so totally rule.
ErlendObdormio # Tuesday, April 4, 2006 6:59:45 PM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Tuesday, April 4, 2006 7:11:44 PM
If you wanted to keep this a secret, you have got to learn to C-O-M-M-U-N-I-C-A-T-E, man! You can EASILY trust me, but then you have to let me know what you trust on me to do - or in this case, not do. I'm not a mind-reader, for cryin' out loud!
Anonymous # Tuesday, April 4, 2006 11:56:21 PM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Wednesday, April 5, 2006 12:23:43 AM
As you'll see from my post, I spent most of it dissing "human rights". But then, at the very end, I admit that its intention is good. So I propose another way of going about it which I believe would serve that intention better.
You see, people are very fond of pointing out what they have the right to. People are not so fond of pointing out what they have the duty to. Luckily, they are fond of pointing out what others have a duty to.
Lets take the by-now-clichè cartoon-drawings of Muhammad, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and the following debate. A system of rights cause conflict, here. Muslims claim to have a right not to have their most vital beliefs ridiculed. Westerners claim to have a right to be able to say whatever they want to.
That's conflict.
If there instead were duties, no conflict. If the Westernes have the duty not to insult others, then no offensive cartoons. If the Muslims have the duty to let the Westerners say and write what they mean and want to, then no violent reactions. Give people the idea that they have rights, and they'll exercise these rights, and bugger be all else. Give people the idea of having duties instead, and the problem, logically, ceases to exist.
I'm sorry if my changing point of the post in the five last paragraphs confused you, but I'm really arguing for two things here - the first, on a principal, philosophical ground that there are no universal rights (or duties). The second on an ethical, pragmatic and functional ground that we want people to live in as much joy and harmony as possible, and that these concepts, however unfounded and unrelated to reality they may be, are believed in, and as such have power to aid us in reaching such goals. Regardless of whether or not the principles themselves actually are in any way true.
Anonymous # Wednesday, April 5, 2006 10:39:56 AM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Wednesday, April 5, 2006 10:57:22 AM
Thanks for the praise. As for shooting hunting-comrades in the face, well, a guy can only stay quasi-serious for so long without doing some mindless Cheney-bashing. I mean, come on, man, that's what he's there for!
Anonymous # Thursday, April 6, 2006 2:27:37 AM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Thursday, April 6, 2006 6:00:15 PM
"let me put it simply: it's a lot easier to stop someone from doing something than forcing them to do something else."
Exaxtly. "I HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIVE" doesn't stop my killer from killing me just becuase it in theory forces him to do something else. "I HAVE THE DUTY NOT TO KILL YOU" obviously don't stop the killer either, but the responsibility lies on *him*. It's an active prohibitation, not a passive one. If you have the right not to be done something against, well, fine, but you can't really do anything about it, can you? If you have to enforce your own right, it's not really a right you have anymore, it's a right you take. Whereas if you have a duty, the responsibilty is clear - you either follow your duty, or you don't. There is no such responsibility on rights - you can demean OTHER people's rights to be sure, but what's their rights to you? It's their rights, after all. It's your duty. I belive that change of perspective could make a difference - provided the people with the duty believe they have the duty, of course. Human Rights don't work unless borht the people with the Rights and everybody around them know AND accept these rights. Human Duties would work for every individual who believes in them, which is far more realistic - and effective.
"trying to do that would be like attempting to build a utopia -- and you know the track record of those things."
There's no utopia. Human Duties won't work. I'm just saying that they, in theory, should work better than Human Rights. As I stated, Human Rights and Human Duties are fantasies, made up from no logical foundation whatsoever, created out of nothing in hope of leading people who believes in them towards an ideal. My point is that if people first are to belive in a fantasy, believing in a fantasy of having Duties is far more effective for the goals set than believing in a fantasy of having Rights.
Of course, believing in having a Duty is not as attractive as believing in having a Right, but that is not my problem.
"Also, there's no way that this could work in your Muhammad cartoons example for the simple reason that the values behind the rights or duties that would come into play in this situation would never mesh. right or duty, it all springs from the same place. everyone has a different set of core values, making it impossible for everyone to just shut up and get along already."
I disagree. If you convince the aggrivated Muslims they have a duty to let the Danish cartoonists speak their opinion and that they have a duty to accept that this opinion differ from their own, and the Danish cartoonists they have a duty not to consciencly offend anyone when speaking their opinion, not to be deliberately crude or offensive, then it will work.
Of course, it is dependent on both sides believing they have these Duties, but that's the case with Rights as well. The advantage of Duties is that they put the responsibility on the agent, not on the object, not that they're more easily accepted than the Rights - because they aren't.
Anonymous # Sunday, April 9, 2006 8:01:22 PM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Sunday, April 9, 2006 8:05:26 PM
You like me?! TOTAL AWESOMENESS! :D
Also, ducks? Pretty fucking cool! Especially Drake Mallard! (Daring Duck of Mystery, Champion of Right, sneaks out through the shadows, Dark Wing of the Night... somewhere some villain schemes - but his number's up! DARKWING DUCK! When there's trouble you call DW! Darkwing Duck! (Let's get... dangerous...) Darkwing Duck!)
Anonymous # Monday, April 24, 2006 9:01:34 PM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Monday, April 24, 2006 9:12:09 PM
I got praise!
And yes, in my opinion, any kind of activist is equally annoying, I try not to discriminate between different kinds of morons, it gets so tiresome to keep track of it after a while. Much more convenient to judge them all at once.
Anonymous # Monday, April 24, 2006 9:31:05 PM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Monday, April 24, 2006 9:33:52 PM
Anonymous # Monday, April 24, 2006 9:38:05 PM
Anonymous # Monday, April 24, 2006 9:45:52 PM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Monday, April 24, 2006 9:46:47 PM
Anonymous # Friday, July 14, 2006 11:40:34 PM
Georgius the PeasantLoki Aesir # Saturday, July 15, 2006 1:51:37 PM
As for making it into a serious essay... well, I'll give it some thought, seeing as you request it, but I don't really see any real point to doing so.
Thanks for commenting. :D