Ieuan's Obs.

Hello there! Gorgeous looking blog, btw. I just wanted to let you know that my husband and I also purchased Worldmark credits through Trendwest and at first felt the same way you do. We couldn't seem to get what we wanted when we wanted. And then we went to an owner's education class. I kept thinking that I was smart enough to learn how to use our ownership on my own, but I was wrong and got frustrated like you. In any case, what we've learned is that the first lie you mentioned isn't a lie at all. You just have to know how to use the system. We NEVER book our trips 6 months or more in advance. In fact, we booked our son's honeymoon a month before he went and got everything he wanted. We booked a penthouse in Victoria BC for New Year's Eve just two days in advance. We just got back from staying at the resort at Birch Bay after booking it just last week. The way we've done this is by using Bonus Time, which really DOES save credits since we don't use credits for Bonus Time at all. What we've learned to do is to just plan to get away, and then a couple of weeks before our getaway, we pick up the phone and call reservations and ask "what do you have available within driving distance of where we live for next week?" For the last two times we've called, on the first try, nothing was available. But I called back a day or two later and asked again and got something. I didn't choose the place, nor the size unit, just the date. That's how we've gotten to use our Bonus Time.

The second issue you mentioned, bait and switch... I'm not sure but that you might have missed something or gotten a rookie broker or something because when we purchased two years ago and when two other of our friends purchased, it was made very clear to all of us at the time that when we use the RCI or Interval International exchange (which the membership of it came free with the Worldmark ownership) to go anywhere in the world, there is an exchange fee. That's not an additional package, it's just a fee that RCI charges to all timeshare owners all over the world when exchanging their timeshare to stay somewhere other than what they own. You, as a Worldmark owner have a LOT more trading power in RCI than the average owner since you have over 58 resorts to exchange any size unit any time of the year, compared to most who only have one unit, one size and one week of the year to offer.

For our son, his honeymoon in Hawaii at a five star resort cost him $149 plus our credits which we'd already paid for months earlier. You can't even stay on the Oregon Coast for one night for that! And as far as the usual, "we can only offer you this deal today" spiel, they are right. We read in our Public Offering statement that they can only offer the Premier package on the first visit. But you can always go back and purchase the Standard package that doesn't come with Bonus Time or the RCI membership or other perks. To us, it was like going shopping at a store and finding a great item that is on sale. We didn't intend to purchase when we went in, but we found such a great deal that we took advantage of the sale when it was available. I don't know about you, but I've tried to go back to Nordstroms to get the suit I saw on sale two weeks ago, but they refused to give it to me at that sale price! When we go to add to our 6000 credit package, we will use the online resale companies because we already own the Premier package. You don't always get all of the perks when you buy a resale.

Oh Ieuan I found a site that you might find helpful!
http://www.wmowners.com/

Thank you Shannon for the compliments on the blog design - not mine - and assistance and the link. Trust me when I say our broker was not a noob. He knew what he was doing and it was wrong.

We are currently in review of our contract, if our complaint is denied I will take your advice to make it work for us. But I really hope we can get out of it, it does not fit our lifestyle.

Thank you for the assistance.

In service,
Lord Ieuan

The contract is ironclad. It is like buying a house. You can't get out of a contract you sign when you buy a house. Same with this. So your alternative is to sell it on the resale market, or learn to use it properly. Of all the owners I know... and I know a lot... hardly any of them plan way in advance. They all, like me, call a month or less in advance and book getaways and vacations.

I do realize the contract is ironclad and we are trying our best to sell. Even with banked credits that we are willing to give away we can’t unload this albatross. I went to my lawyer to address the issue and he told me I should have shown him the contract before signing. After reading it he stated he would have strongly advised me against signing it.

Sadly we rarely even have a month to plan a vacation or weekend getaway, and we were very[/i] clear about this with our broker. Our window of planning time is usually a week or less, again we were clear on this, and we have not been able to find accommodations. Trendwest has not been the least bit helpful even helping us to use the program “properly”.

I know folks that love the program and I know some who loathe it. I just wish I had done some more research, and had my lawyer review the contract, before I signed on the dotted line. If I had I never would have bought into it. I have just chalked this up to one exceedingly expensive mistake.

Hi Leuan,

I new here at Opera and I saw your blog. A friend of mine is going to one of those seminars soon and I told him about this. He is still going to the seminar but I think he's going to be more careful about signing and definately will have his lawyer read the contract.

I hope you don't mind but I added you to my friends list. I like your posts.

Percheron.

Hi Percheron!

Thank you for the compliments and of course I don't mind being added to your friends list.

I hope your friend does some research and watches his back. Trendwest is not going to let us out of our contract, as we expected, nor are they the least bit helpful in assisting us with using the program. Why should they? They have us hook line and sinker.

Feel free to post here anytime! Oh, by the way my name is ieuan

Ieuan

Hi Ieuan,
I have to say that I have had a very similar experience as you have with our trendwest ownership. I had heard from other owners how great it was, but they were people that would bank credits as long as possible (a year or more) then take a long vacation. My wife and I cannot do that, and we are not able to travel far from Seattle when we do vacation. My biggest problem was the bait-and-switch approach. I'm not a lawyer, but when an offer is given, in writing, to entice you to purchase something on a contractual basis, this offer becomes part of the binding contract. Our salesperson promised us 2 free nights at a Seattle hotel (I know, doesn't sound too extravagant) as an incentive for us to purchase, and wrote on the back of one of his own business cards that he has offered us this. When I called in the beginning of May to use these nights for our anniversary in late May, I was told by a receptionist that our salesperson and ONLY our salesperson could honor the request. Naturally, he was not available at the time, as he was vacationing in Hawaii. I left a message with the receptionist who assured me that someone else in the office would call me back and assist me with the reservation. Nobody called. I called a couple days later and was told that our salesperson was not available and a message was left for him. He never called back. I called yet again and told the receptionist that this was a very time-sensitive issue and that I would prefer to hold until he was available, and she refused. He never called back. I called another time and left yet another message with the receptionist who assured me that she's been delivering my messages directly to him. He never called back. At this point I have left 6 messages for him, the receptionist refuses to allow me to hold until he's available, and apparently he has no voicemail for me to leave him a direct message. I have called the person whom our salesperson described as his supervisor, and she has not returned my calls. I am currently composing a letter to the BBB as well as seeking legal counsel for a suit of breach of contract.

Hello nazzlow,

I feel for you on this one and understand completely what you are going through. I don't know how much luck you will have in getting some justice but I hope for the best for you.

In this day and age of money being tight for most people, and when you do scrape some up to increase your quality of life, not getting what you expected you paid for really hurts.

Good luck!!!

Lord Ieuan

Sorry to hear about your experience.
Adding insult to injury is the fact that your credits on the second hand market are worth about $.82 each. That is for a premeir package too. It doesn't matter if you bought 20 yrs ago or last week, a credit is a credit is a credit in the premier packages. .82 is a far cry from the Trendwest brokers price of $1.77 today.
Banked credits only add about anther .01 each or $10 per 1,000.
I have been through the tour a couple of times and the one thing that does not set well with me is their tactics. "By now or you will never own this" coupled with, "We can make this extremely easy to pay for"(at 14% interest) and you WILL qualify.
Other than that I am sure it works great for a lot of people who can swing the flexibility it takes to enjoy it. My take is if you take the tour and its for you, buy second hand. They are easy to come by.
Best of luck Ieuan, remember, you're not the first and you won't be their last.

Very interesting Woody about the "value" of credits, I never knew that little tid bit. As for buying second hand you are correct... it's the way to go if one is going to pruchase a package. Sadly I only learned that after trying to unload this bloody albatross.

It's sad but I know I won't be the last sucker to buy into one of these lovely vacation packages, hence the reason I've posted my experience. If I can help just one person to not make the same mistake I did it just might be worth it.

Thank you for the wishes of luck, all I can do at this point is keep my fingers crossed and hope it sells. OH!! That reminds me, I did another stupid thing. When going to a broker to sell your Nightmare Timeshare DO NOT pay for a listing up fromt. My listing cost me $550 and they are doing diddily squat to help me sell. If they want your business they can get paid when the damn thing sells, the same way a legitimate relator does it.

Cheers,
Ieuan

The comments about buying second hand are correct. I purchased my membership last summer for 76 cents/credit on Ebay. I verified ownership before sending any money, and the only other fee was the $150 transfer fee. I had sat through the high pressure sales pitch twice (about 10 years apart) and would not buy from them. Since you cannot get the same deal from them after that day, the only other option is to buy second hand. These memberships carry all of the same benefits and priviledges. If you are planning to go this route I would caution you to buy well ahead of a planned trip as Trendwest was very slow in completing the paperwork. I have used my membership 3 times in the last 9 months and have had a great time. Although the sales people are definitely not someone I like to deal with, the personnel at the resorts are excellent! You may want to check out inventory specials. Every month there are places you can go that are usually midweek stays (some have limited weekends), and they book the same as bonus time. I was able to get three nights at the Birch Bay resort during my spring break for about $36 a night for a two bedroom unit. You can book inventory specials more than two weeks in advance, and there is no housekeeping fee. Good luck.

Dear Lord Ieuan,
I am looking into purchasing a Trendwest membership. Are you interested in selling yours?
Paul

Hell YES!!!!!!

I just wanted to add my 2 cents to the comments. I have owned maybe 10 different time shares and now own Worldmark. I is the best I have ever encountered. The Bonus Time program is super and I use it all the time. The trading power with RCI and II is unique as you do not have to deposit until you confirm your chose of vacations and if you book within 45 days the credit cost is about 1/2 what it would normally be.
Anyone that has paid for a membership and does not know how to use it efficiently should go to a owners education class or two. The give you enough infomation that sometimes two times through it would be to your advantage. I really have had no problems getting what I want on short notice but again I know how to use the system. With the real time reservation system no one in the time share market can beat the opportunity to get a fair shake on booking rooms. If you think that this timeshare is hard to use try anyother one for a while and you will be back.
I would not trade this time share for even the Marriotts since Marriott has a home resort theory and they are hard to trade to other Marriotts so I seem like you always go to the same place once a year. No bonus time with Marriot, no one day a time with Marriott.

You will learn to love Worldmark if you learn what you are entitled to. You payed dearly, learn to use it.

2Zote

I am trying to help an employee to get out of Trendwest. She went to a seminar in Australia in April 2004 and signed up using our company credit card. It has only just been discovered that there has been over $5000 in payments debited from her employers card as she thought she had "got out of it" and as there were no monthly dues coming off her own card then she thought it had all gone away. She now discovers that she must have been hooked and sunk. Can anyone tell me what length of time these monthly fees go on for? She joined in April 2004 and has been paying 200 a month since then. Her quarterly fees are about 300. Obviously she will have to pay back her employer - but it would help to know what the final cost will be as well. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Ahhhh yes yet another Trendwest "success" story; and the hits keep coming...

If yu are referring to the maintenance dues those go on for life; but damn mine aren't that high!

Ieuan

Lord Ieuan,

My wife and I sat thru a seminar yesterday. The concept is a fabulous idea, but I felt like I was being pressured. The presenter as well as the broker made it clear at the beginning, that this wasn't for everyone, and if it wasn't for us, no problem. Haha, what a crock. After the presentation, we sat down with a broker/salesman. This guy was great. He was funny and very down to earth. We explained our lives in a nutshell (5 kids 7-16) and what we would like to do for vacations for the next few years. He explained the membership in detail and then got down to price. Keep in mind that my wife and I were and still are opened minded about the concept, but we aren't in the position to drop that kind of cash. Once we told our broker this, he pulled in the go-to guy. In cars sales, this is the "Manager".

He sat down and gave us 4 different options on top of the standard 12,000 credits. He offered us 10,000 free credits for a year, a free "bonus week" anywhere and made it very clear that this was a one-time only deal. My wife and I discussed it and agreed that the timing was bad, that we would have to pass up on the offer. Now he became condescending. Trying to make me feel like I was an idiot for not taking then up on this great offer, and that I was ruining my family's vacationing life if I didn’t commit today! Hello! I’m not a rocket scientist, but I did graduate from college and I can see the benefit of this program if; 1) You have the income to pay for it and 2) You have the time to use it. I felt like I was being ridiculed and that pissed me off.

After I had time to digest the information, I jumped on the ol trusty internet and did some research. If I am planning on buying a new vehicle in the 20-25k range, I not going to buy it based on the word of some salesman! I’m going to look around, kick the tires, ask question of actual owners, etc. So I researched the Trendwest concept. First off, I found this blog (very nice btw), and second, I found a dozen sites offering resale of vacation credits. I can buy the exact package offered to me from a reseller, and some at a discounted price. Premier Ownership that was only good for that one day is available all over the net anytime. Go figure.

Bottom line, “buyer beware”. Do the research, ask the questions, and above all else get legal advice. Make sure that what ever the salesman offers you is written on the contract before signing. And if worse comes to worse walk out, and decide later. You can always buy ownership online.

**** Note 08/07/2006 **** The person who posted what prompted my following response deleted their post. I have suspected some of these type of posts to be Worldmark shills, but that is just a suspicion and I have no proof of this. Bigfootdad love your post by the way, sounds like what happened to me but you had the smarts to walk away. Nicely done.

If I hear one more person say something to the effect of: "If you learn how to use it you will enjoy it" I'm going to vomit. If a learning process is envolved on how to enjoy Worldmark why aren't you told that in the high pressure sales portion of the transaction? Why aren't you given the information on where to find these seminars? A good friend of mine was in the fitness club business, a man came in and asked: "What do you call someone who buys a membership but never uses it?" She replied: "Profit." I suspect the same thing with Worldmark.

I appreciate the information and offers for help but that's not the point. The dirty sales tactics of my broker, and warning others of this possibility is. I have been looking into how to use the program but I wish I knew this upfront.

I did not realize that I had the time to research because I was told the offer was for that day only. My wife and I have a very high pressure life and we were looking for something to help relieve that pressure, our broker played on that big time.

As I stated before I'm sure the program works well for most people, but not all. Biggfootdad brings up some great points, especially the one about legal advice!

Ieuan

Ieuan --

Yikes! Thanks so much for posting what you did! I just got called tonight by a very pleasant person inviting me to come the little itty bitty lecture in order to just take a short tour and then be rewarded with a nice Vegas vacation. I agreed to go to the presentation because I wanted to go to Vegas this fall anyway, so why not get parts of the trip free? Also, some friends of mine had a Worldmark membership and seemed happy with it. However, my concern about whether this was legit or not led me hunting online, and I found your site as well as some legal proceedings a couple of years ago in CA regarding problems similar to yours. My question is, was the promised vacation worth going to the presentation (guess I'm also becoming worried about how much pressure I'll encounter) or did anything questionable happen on that trip? e.g. bait and swith to a fleabag motel, etc.

Julie

Hello Julie,

To answer the question sure the trip is worth it if you don't mind sitting through presentations. As to being put up in a "flea-bag" motel I can't comment on that as we did not actually go on the free trip, my wife and I went because we were really looking for what Trendwest claimed to offer in terms of ease of getting acomodations on short notice. (Please Trendwest fans don't tell me I have to learn how to use the program, our broker did not tell us this nor were we given information on where to go to "Trendwest College".)

You won't encounter any real pressure if you don't sit down with a broker and even if you do remember there are more economical ways to purchase membership.

All the best,
Ieuan

It is pretty clear that the first comment from "shannonblogs" is direct from the Trendwest marketing department. The careful capitalization of trade names and programs, along with being almost word-for-word from the company line and sales training materials are a dead giveaway. Don't believe for a moment that this person is a member like the rest of you.

If you have had a problem with an agent being less than truthful, what you need to do is contact the state agency responsible for regulating real estate brokers in your state. All Trendwest brokers are required to maintain a state license. Filing a formal complaint with the state agency is your best recourse.

For a very limited segment of the population, TW offers a decent product. Bad investment, but decent product. For most people, the bait-and-switch is all too close to the truth.

The individual contract is most likely too well put together to wrangle out of (good luck selling -- market value is well under 50%), but a class action for their business practices would be very interesting to say the least.

Thank you Johnny, very well stated and great advice!

Ieuan

P.S. That class action thing is sounding pretty good!

Seeking advice in trying to help my Mom. I just learned she bought a Trendwest vacation plan in 2002. If I am reading the materials properly she paid $9,000 for a 6,000 annual point plan. This was done on payments so there is about $4,500 still left to be paid on the principal. In reading through the materials in hand (which may not be all the pertinent info to know) this does not look like a wise move for her. She is in her mid 70's, does not go on many vacations, and may or may not actually use her time annually. Further, unlike some other condo deals, it appears she cannot turn in unused time to be rented to others (for a cash payment to her). Any sage advice to share with my Mom...? She is about $4,500 into the deal with about $4,500 to go, plus the annual maintenance fees. Can she even sell her interest (discounted or not) when principal is still due? What are her best options? Many thanks in advance for ideas.

Originally posted by ladycody:

Happened back on this blog by accident and read you're note about my deleted post. I'm not a shill...just wanted to let you know that I was honestly trying to help as best I thought I could. Your response:

"If I hear one more person say something to the effect of: "If you learn how to use it you will enjoy it" I'm going to vomit."

was anything but nice in response.

That's what made me decide that deleting my well intended comments was in order. I dont respond well to harshness when I've tried to be helpful.

You dont have to want/need/like what I'm offering...but in my little world, I appreciate kindheartedness when offered and dont spit in the hand of someone who's reaching out..even if I dont particularly want what's being offered. Call me sensitive.

I'll come back and delete this too.... It's your blog, and while I wanted to respond...dont feel the need to clutter up your space.

While my response was not "nice" I have heard the "If you learn how to use it" line all too often. It's become annoying. Hearing this suggests it's the owner's own damn fault for not knowing how to use the system. And if Trendwest told me up front I'd have to go through some type of "educational process" to take a bloody vacation I wouldn't have bought the dang thing.

As far as "spitting" in someone's hand when they offer help, I did say this: "I appreciate the information and offers for help but that's not the point. The dirty sales tactics of my broker, and warning others of this possibility is. I have been looking into how to use the program but I wish I knew this upfront." I guess you didn't bother to read that part.

There is no need to delete your post, all are welcome to comment.

Originally posted by Big Sky Dude:

Seeking advice in trying to help my Mom. I just learned she bought a Trendwest vacation plan in 2002. If I am reading the materials properly she paid $9,000 for a 6,000 annual point plan. This was done on payments so there is about $4,500 still left to be paid on the principal. In reading through the materials in hand (which may not be all the pertinent info to know) this does not look like a wise move for her. She is in her mid 70's, does not go on many vacations, and may or may not actually use her time annually. Further, unlike some other condo deals, it appears she cannot turn in unused time to be rented to others (for a cash payment to her). Any sage advice to share with my Mom...? She is about $4,500 into the deal with about $4,500 to go, plus the annual maintenance fees. Can she even sell her interest (discounted or not) when principal is still due? What are her best options? Many thanks in advance for ideas.

Wow quite a few issues here. Let me start off by saying I'm far[/b][/u] from a Trendwest expert. If I was I would not be an "owner" if you catch my drift.

First of all get that balance paid off A.S.A.P my credit is great and the interest rate was insane!

If she doesn't use her points she can "bank" two years worth, after that she will loose future points. Ain't that a pisser?

She can sub lease her points out to other people but I'd make dern sure who that person is or have one heck of a contract. The primary owner is responsible for any and all damage to the property.

Yes, she can sell with principal due as long as Trendwest gets paid, but good luck selling. Posts by woody1964 and myself address this very issue.

Best of luck to your mother!
Ieuan

Lord Leuan thank you for the response and advice. Regarding her points, she has 12,000 in hand and I am advising her to plan on using them before they expire. I also fully agree she must end the interest as soon as possible. Actually that is where my involvment began. When I learned that she owned this timeshare, without having looked into "the deal", I was advising her to get it quickly payed off to avoid further high interest charges. Yet when I began looking into what she bought I began to question if it even made sense to pay off what remained. Financially it probably is in her best interest to forget the payments already made and walk away from the balance of the contract. I'm not an attorney or CPA, yet I believe if she were to take that action essentially giving up her timeshare interest then the failure to complete the loan contract would damage/destroy her credit. Can anyone confirm if that would be the case? Once again, thank you for any advice or assistance you can provide.

Hi, I've just found your blog and it's been interesting. I've been a Worldmark owner for 12 years and am in the process of increasing our credits by buying resale. Our first 6000 were purchased at the trendwest sales centre in Birch Bay. We had 3 very small kids at the time and NO spare money for this extravagance but my husband was thinking long term and he said he didn't want to just take the kids camping for all our future vacations. We couldn't afford to take vacations at the begining so I used my credits to give my sister a great 40th birthday in Cabo San Lucas one year and a few years ago gave my brother-in-law and his new wife a week in wine country as their wedding gift. I have used bonus time regularly to go on short trips with girlfriend that cost me nothing because I just split the minimal cost of the room between my guests. They get a tremendous deal and it allows me to use the resorts with them. We're lucky because we live near Whistler, Victoria and Seattle and these are places I can go to over and over and never get bored. It does have to suit YOUR lifestyle, though.
I've noticed a lot of owners selling 'one time use' credits on eBay for about .80 cents per credit. If you sell these to other owners your risk isn't that high that they will "trash the place". and that money could be used to pay off outstanding loans. I know it would be a long process but it's an option. I also regularly book vacations on bonus time or inventory specials for close friends and add a little extra to help cover the cost of annual dues. They're still getting a fantastic deal! All this extra effort is worth it to me (as a stay at home mom) because it helps me afford my own vacations.
Before you walk away from the loan and risk credit problems it's worth a try selling those credits in "one time only" packages. Look it up on eBay.
Good luck,

My boyfriend and I went to a seminar (in Oz downunder) the other week - being a lawyer and an accountant there was no way we were going to succumb to the sales pitch and depart with our money on the night (I think the sales person was quite happy to see us go due to the 1001 questions we asked and calculations we went through) however, we are interested in purchasing the credits and hence I have come across your blog in my research as to the legitimacy and otherwise of TW. Just wanted to say it has been really useful and helpful. We already discovered buying the credits second-hand (which seems to be the way to go) but what I am concerned about is the availability issue. We are avid ski-ers and wondering if anyone can give me some tips on your experiences in booking during the ski-seasons at the ski resorts in Whistler and Steamboat (ie availability etc)- Also just generally being able to book at the last minute (no TW sales people respond please!!)

Hi Sceptigirl,
If I told everyone it was easy to book last minute in Whistler I'd be making it more difficult for myself to get availability! As I live in Vancouver, I find it no problem to book Bonus Time because I'm flexible with my dates (self-employed artist)but I have noticed over the last few years it's getting a bit harder to get the best dates last minute. Week days are much easier to get than weekends but, after having said that, I booked the August long weekend through Bonus Time this past summer with just a little time spent checking the website for a cancellation. We stayed at Sundance which is at the old village about 3 miles from the new village but it was still fun. Whistler has a free shuttle service between both locations so late night partying is no problem!
I also booked a night in Seattle on the 12th of September last minute as I was lucky to get tickets to the SO YOU THINK YOU CAN DANCE Tour opening night for my daughter and a friend. I heard that it was impossible to get a regular hotel room because of a convention downtown so I felt pretty lucky to snag that condo. I have never tried Steamboat but I've stayed in many others. We did a last minute family road trip to Vegas and got Bonus time but we did have to book a different size room for the last two nights to fill out our week.
A girlfriend once called me from Cabo San Lucas with a request to try to get something at Coral Baja because the resort she had booked was a dive. I made a call and was able to book a one bedroom for her for the last 4 days of her vacation on Bonus Time (she reimbursed me happily) and her holiday was saved. As I said in my first post, I've been a member for 12 years have many positive stories, which is why I'm buying another 6000 on eBay this week. You really have to decide if you want to vacation at resorts or do the backpack/camping/cruising/roadtrip thing and then see if it works. I like to get away to any resort available, sit on the beach or in the mountains and paint, so I can find things to do at all of their locations. Some people might find this boring.
BTW, we also used RCI this past winter (an affiliate of TW) for the first time. As a Worldmark owner, I could get a 2 year membership for $99 and then use THEIR equivalent of Bonus time. I got a one bedroom in Fort Lauderdale for one week for $149US!!! Crazy!! We were going on a cruise and wanted to make the most out of our time in Florida without spending a ton of money but this was ridiculous. They call it inventory clearout or something. OK now I sound like a salesperson so I'm going to have to end it here. Hope I've helped.

We have a 6000 point permium membership, and have had much the same experiences as several of the commentaries on this blog. We have been members since 2003 and have used Bonus Time twice. I had tried several times unsucessfully to schedule something in Washington and Oregon, and finally in frustration looked at all West Coast locations. I finally found something in Arizona on short notice (less than 10 days) that I could "rent." I had Alaska Air F/F points and was able to obtain the round trip transportation to Tucson, so we went for it. That was our first experience, and we found out what tends to be a trend (shit poor signage). We arrived after dark and even though we had written directions from the website drove around for more than a half hour before asking for directions. To my surprise, the attendant at the golf pro shop knew exactly how to get to the Trendwest property that was nested in another property (they own a portion of a larger resort property), as she had to give directions on a daily basis to lost members. Even with accurate directions if took an additional fifteen minutes to find the property and office (I walked around until I found the office after I had parked). In May of this year we stayed at the Leavenworth, WA location and had a very similar experience. Poor almost impossible to read signs, and having to walk around the property and ask directions to find the office. That coming on the heels of having to ask at a convenience store how to find the Trendwest location. Every time I make a maintenance payment I note that they should buy a sign with it. Bottom line, if any of the Worldmark/Trendwest lovers out there are interested I owe 54 payments @ $168.45 + $150 transfer fee and have 18000 points available. (shbooks@comcast.net).

Great blog! I came home and my husband showed me all the input, and felt I had to add my 2 cents+ worth. Not only has the signage sucked everywhere we have gone; the beds have been rather Motel 6-ish, accomodations are clean but uninspiring, we heard lawn sprinklers all night and had to get wet walking through them to get to the door of our room. Each time I have attempted to inquire about a reservation, I have never once succeeded in dialing just one number; I am constantly given a different number to call. There are long waits on the phone, just to find out that there are no available rooms. The bottom line is this: I really could go on forever about my displeasure with the way I feel we were duped and how we are now trapped with this bully shaking the milk money out of our pockets. It seems we were certainly given a different picture when we were promised the moon (and the world to vacation). There were many issues that were not addressed when the package was placed in the best possible light to pressure us. Perhaps we should all begin sharing ideas/reasons for a class action, only I imagine we should do it in a more clandestine manner than here. My husband and I will certainly start now by filing a complaint with the WA State Attorney General's Office (perhaps the more of us, the better) as well as documenting all the discrepencies between our hook/line/sinker session and the reality since. We will also file with the agency that regulates real estate brokers/agents as suggested above. Great idea!

I am also a Trendwest "sucker...er owner". We had the exact same promises that the scheduling would fit with our busy lifestyle, but just could not make it work. We attended an "owner education" class and still could not make it work. After many attempts to convince Trendwest to release us from the contract. We decided to try once again to use the system. We attempted to book a trip to a resort in Mexico in April 2007. Due to my schedule we can only go on the weekends. I attempted to book 2 nights online and was given the error message that you must book a minimum of 7 nights if your reservation is made more than 60 days in advance. We looked for an eariler time to go but everything was booked solid on the weekends, until april.

For the $9000 membership fee and annual matienance fee paymenet I shouldnt have to play games to use it. I shouldn't have to call a month in advance and hope that something within driving distance is avalible, and I shouldn't have to pay for "bounus time" when I am already paying for credits.

We have been shamed, and are now going to take our losses.

The problem is you really can't cut your losses. We'll be paying maintenance fees for life unslees we can unload the damn thing.

I feel your pain.

I bought a Trendwest ownership in October without really expecting to, but we were 'sold'. Luckily, we have not regretted it. During the presentation, the salesperson told us that he guarenteed that the bonus time capabilities alone would be worth joining, and so far that has been true. We have made reservations for 3 stays at 3 different resorts within just a few days of arrival, and paid the minimum $30/night price since they were in the slower season times on weekdays. If we continue to use that as often as we have, he was right.
We were dissapointed that we still have not received the 1 week free RCI stay we were promised, but I called the guy who sold us our membership and he apolgized and said he'd get right on to figuring that out. He also offered us a free night at the resort he's stationed at for when we came up for an owner education thing anytime that was convenient for us. There was a 5-part story in the newspaper here about the pitfalls of timeshares, and the only positive thing in the whole series came from a trendwest owner, who just happened to buy 8 years ago from the same salesman we did.

Wishing many happy travels to all!

WARNING!!! DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED FOR A SERIOUS REALITY CHECK

THE WORLDMARK MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR HEIST!!!
I will now expose "WorldMark by Trendwest" for the corrupt, money stealing thieves that they are...and I hope they're watching. I'll disclose my personal scenario. I'm sure there are many other situations, but you'll find this extremely enlightening. I begin with two revealing cases and then follow with firsthand insider predatorial marketing schemes.

We paid $18,000 for 12,000 yearly credits. We foolishly financed it at 14%, heaven forgive us. On top of that, our maintenance fees are at $600 per year now. Here are two scenarios that are very real and painful to swallow. The first will scare you. The second may turn you into a drooling, mumbling fool if you've already done it.

First of all, I computed what a weeks vacation would take using WorldMark, The "Club". It takes about 12,000 credits for a week in a condo, give or take. That means an average of ONE vacation per year for us. I did not factor Bonus Time into these scenarios, thus staying within the core value of this scam. Secondly, to find a nice place for a week in a cozy corner of the world would run around $150/day, or $1050 per week. Some could be cheaper, some more, but this is all based on AVERAGING over an extended period of time. THUS, my break-even point is this figure -- $1050/year. Lastly, I took into account that maintenance fees will increase in proportion to lodging costs over the years. We will now look at this linearly.

SCENARIO #1 - $18,000 paid in full on day of contract signing (NOT ME!!!)
Maintenance Fee = $600/yr or $6,000/10yrs (you can't get out of this one!)
Goal: If I vacation every year, how many years will it take to break even with the money I would have spent by booking some other way?

10 years $18,000 + $6,000 = $24,000 = $2,400 PER VACATION
20 years $18,000 + $12,000 = $30,000 = $1,500 PER VACATION
30 years $18,000 + $18,000 = $36,000 = $1,200 PER VACATION
40 years $18,000 + $24,000 = $40,000 = $1,050 PER VACATION

And if you buy it at ½ the price on eBay????

10 years $9,000 + $6,000 = $15,000 = $1,500 PER VACATION
20 years $9,000 + $12,000 = $21,000 = $1,050 PER VACATION

Summary: It takes 40 years to break even if you sign that contract......sounds like a deal, huh? But wait, it only takes 20 years if you buy it on eBay--waahooo!!!


SCENARIO #2 - $18,000 financed at 14% for 10 years = $33,500 total (principal + interest)
Maintenance Fee = $600/yr or $6,000/10yrs
Goal: If I vacation every year, how many years will it take to break even with the money I would have spent by booking some other way?

10 years $33,500 + $6,000 = $39,500 = $3,950 PER VACATION
20 years $33,500 + $12,000 = $45,500 = $2,275 PER VACATION
30 years $33,500 + $18,000 = $51,500 = $1,716 PER VACATION
40 years $33,500 + $24,000 = $57,500 = $1,437 PER VACATION
50 years $33,500 + $30,000 = $63,500 = $1,270 PER VACATION
60 years $33,500 + $36,000 = $69,500 = $1,158 PER VACATION
70 years $33,500 + $40,000 = $75,500 = $1,078 PER VACATION

Summary: It takes over 70 years to break even. Will any of us be alive in 70 years?????? Does anybody out there see this the way I do? It's a scam of epic proportions. Now about the marketing.

I know several sales people who "worked" for Worldmark/Trendwest/whatever. They say that the pressure to sell contracts was so great that they hated it. Mind you, some fork-tongued, slick-haired salesmen love the "hunt" for victims, so not everyone will dislike this line of work. But they said that they have the psychology pegged down to the point where they know exactly what works with people. Their hot-house gatherings have the Jamaican music playing, refreshments, table parties and "waahoo's" when a couple signs up, you name it. It's all to get people to sign on that line, knowing that a great percentage of people procrastinate enough to put off cancelling before the grace period ends. Before you get your free gift they funnel you through their last line "hatchet man." This specialist is reserved for tough customers who want the heck out of the corner they're in, who's job is to lay on the guilt, smudge, and psychological warfare tactics in one last push. It's a con game at its finest.

Yes, the system works wonderfully for some--- for those whos lifestyle conveniently fit the stringent conditions. Leaving at a weeks notice on a little getaway "Bonus Time." I've never been able to get the popular destinations when I want. Even if I try to book 13 months in advance!! What's the deal! Are they reserving the best slots for the CEO's & their good old boys clubs? And try getting Bonus Time when and where you want. You're pretty much at the mercy of whatever the heck they've got at the time.

I'm all for building a class action suit for fraud, deception, extortion, or whatever else seems applicable. They downplay and skirt briefly over the cool down period policy, because they know that after it expires, you, your children, and your children's children will be forced to feed the system until the end of time! My guess is that the majority of irrevocable, "iron clad" contracts end up with some poor couple or individual wondering whether or not to file for bankruptcy to get out of their deal with the devil. Ponder this, and respond if you'd like. P.S. Let me know if you want to start a class action. I'm all hot and bothered because its Christmas and Trendwest has all my children's Christmas money for the next 70 years.

I finally decided that it was time to escape from the Trendwest Dungeon no matter the cost.

I sold my credits (Never able to use them), and took a loss of nearly $3500. In retrospect, I could have taken a very nice vaction for $3500 (I could have done many more worthwile things with that money). The loss has really brought me down, but I will chalk it up to experinece.

However, Zedzero's post made me realize that I have just saved myself quite a bit of money over time, and I now have the freedom to vaction how and when I choose (Which I was told was one of the Trendwest "Benefits").

I think a Class Action suit would be great, hopefully someone can find a legal presedence or law to base it on, my vast research has found that they operate within full compliance with state and fedral laws.

I always felt this was a scam, but was blinded by something at their presentation. Perhaps those refreshments were spiked, or they have subliminal messages in those well produced videos!

Wow, the last two posts really says it all. To those Trendwest shills visiting this blog tell your bosses your days are numbered.

I actually got to use my points recently, but for what I pay in maintenance dues, and jockeying for time, I could have saved money and got what I wanted without the hassle.

Let me know when the class action begins!

Just a couple of things to take into consideration. (in response to zed's post mostly)

If you are using 12,000 credits for a week's vacation...then you are going in high season and staying in a 3 br condo (at least usually). Now...you might be getting an ocean view "hotel" room for $150 per night...but I dont know where...the Shilo in Seaside runs $260+ for an ocean view hotel room (so $1820 for the week). It's nothing great... and sits right across the street from our resort on the main street in Seaside. Anyway...I think it would depend on where you're staying.

I think if you're going to compare numbers...you should be comparing similar accomodations in similar seasons. Having said that...there are certainly people who can hunt down great deals...but MY kind of great deal (prior to owning) would have been $80/nt in a room at a motel 6 on the coast...not a $500 condo rental. Just being honest here...I know those deals are out there...I just never knew about them. The average traveler is not going to find a 3 BR condo or house in high season in a tourist area for $150 per night.

Another consideration is inflation. If you factor in 6% inflation(and AAA says it's 8-10%) on that $150 hotel room...you'll have spent somewhere around $40,000 at the 20 year mark....to stay in hotel rooms for 1 week every year (and you'll have higher food costs on top of it because you wont have a kitchen). Yes...the MF's can go up...but WM's have a 5% cap on them...and have NEVER gone up (percentage-wise) at the same rate as hotel rooms. (at least not that I've been able to find.)

I looked at all that and figured out the following (for me...not saying it works for everyone):

1)I didnt go on vacation before owning...and now I do. Owning has forced me to go and it turns out that, for me...it's not a hardship. Someone else (like me who never traveled) might look at that same scenario and think..."well, heck, I'd have rather gone on vacation a lot less often and spent less"....and that's ok...a TS was DEFINITELY not for them.

2)When I'm on vacation...I'm staying in condos and have virtually NO "required" expenses with regard to eating out unless I 'choose' to spend money in restaurants. My family of 4 saves ALOT in food expenses compared to what we'd spend if staying in a hotel room (might not be as bad if I had more girls...but my husband and boys can EAT).

3)The number of nights per year that I can get using my credits will increase as my kids grow up...because we'll opt for 1br units or studios (depending on location) instead of 2 br units. In addition...if I'm creative...I can increase the number of nights I get right now. My 12,000 credits will get me a week in Depoe Bay in Nov in a 2br, and 10 nights in Rosarito in Jan in a 2br. OR...a 2br at the Oregon coast over Spring Break Week and 4 nights somewhere in a 2br somewhere else over the summer. If I were willing to put all 4 of us into a 1br right now when we travel...I'd get more time than that.

4)Based on the numbers shown above (the ones that include financing costs)...if zed (or anyone) sells their ownership after 20 years for half of what they paid for it...they would have paid less than they would have in hotels for the same number of nights (factoring in inflation...and the savings is even greater if you factor in food savings). So for LESS money...the 12,000 credit WM owner, using ONLY their credits, would have spent a week a year in 3 br condos as opposed to hotel rooms at the end of 20 years...if they sold their 12,000 credits for just $10,000 in 2026. If they GAVE it away...it would probably be about the break even point. If on the other hand...they hang on to the ownership...the value gets even better and they can leave it to their kids, who get the value without the buy-in costs.

None of that takes into account the added value of having access to BT and IS...and for those who use it alot...it adds considerable value and travel time.

I get that it doesnt work for everyone...but it's not a rip-off for everyone either. I'm sorry for those who own WM and feel as though they were ripped off or who get no use out of it...really. I just felt a need to show the other side of the coin as well...and there are alot of owners who love WM and for whom it works financially...even financed.

Having said all THAT...NO one should be lied to at a presentation....ever. I firmly believe that WM is worth it's asking price...and it's got enough value in it's own right without requiring lies to sell it...I HATE that.

PS to darklingthrush: Those RCI specials (like BT sorta) are called "last calls"...and they border on the ridiculous!! A friend of mine went down to La Isla de Mujeres Resort and Yacht Club(off the coast of Cancun) this past October...he and his wife stayed in a studio with a full kitchen at $129 per week. He booked 2 consecutive weeks so his 2 weeks in Mexico cost him $258. On top of that...he had taken a bump the last time they flew...so they only had to pay taxes on their flight...round trip for both of them was only $108!!! Then in Dec he got an instant exchange (4000 credits) into the Pueblo Bonita resort at Emerald Bay...HOLY COW was that a nice resort!!! Truth be told...he's kinda getting on my nerves cause he's having TOO much fun and making me a bit jealous (his kids are grown and he's able to travel more easily than I can right now)

Has anyone who went to one of these presentaions, and not signed up, received the free gift that was promised?? We are going to one this week and have been promised a free trip to Las Vegas just for sitting through a 90min presentation. What are the chances of getting this free trip,(airfare and accomadation included), without a huge hassel.
I really don't have any intention of buying one these timeshares.
Would appreciate any feedback.
Thanks
ps Great blog!

Ladycody: Well welcome back. I'm going to have to quote your post here so we don't loose any of it since you like to delete posts. Sorry for the long quote folks:

Just a couple of things to take into consideration. (in response to zed's post mostly)

If you are using 12,000 credits for a week's vacation...then you are going in high season and staying in a 3 br condo (at least usually). Now...you might be getting an ocean view "hotel" room for $150 per night...but I dont know where...the Shilo in Seaside runs $260+ for an ocean view hotel room (so $1820 for the week). It's nothing great... and sits right across the street from our resort on the main street in Seaside. Anyway...I think it would depend on where you're staying.

I think if you're going to compare numbers...you should be comparing similar accomodations in similar seasons. Having said that...there are certainly people who can hunt down great deals...but MY kind of great deal (prior to owning) would have been $80/nt in a room at a motel 6 on the coast...not a $500 condo rental. Just being honest here...I know those deals are out there...I just never knew about them. The average traveler is not going to find a 3 BR condo or house in high season in a tourist area for $150 per night.

Another consideration is inflation. If you factor in 6% inflation(and AAA says it's 8-10%) on that $150 hotel room...you'll have spent somewhere around $40,000 at the 20 year mark....to stay in hotel rooms for 1 week every year (and you'll have higher food costs on top of it because you wont have a kitchen). Yes...the MF's can go up...but WM's have a 5% cap on them...and have NEVER gone up (percentage-wise) at the same rate as hotel rooms. (at least not that I've been able to find.)

I looked at all that and figured out the following (for me...not saying it works for everyone):

1)I didnt go on vacation before owning...and now I do. Owning has forced me to go and it turns out that, for me...it's not a hardship. Someone else (like me who never traveled) might look at that same scenario and think..."well, heck, I'd have rather gone on vacation a lot less often and spent less"....and that's ok...a TS was DEFINITELY not for them.

2)When I'm on vacation...I'm staying in condos and have virtually NO "required" expenses with regard to eating out unless I 'choose' to spend money in restaurants. My family of 4 saves ALOT in food expenses compared to what we'd spend if staying in a hotel room (might not be as bad if I had more girls...but my husband and boys can EAT).

3)The number of nights per year that I can get using my credits will increase as my kids grow up...because we'll opt for 1br units or studios (depending on location) instead of 2 br units. In addition...if I'm creative...I can increase the number of nights I get right now. My 12,000 credits will get me a week in Depoe Bay in Nov in a 2br, and 10 nights in Rosarito in Jan in a 2br. OR...a 2br at the Oregon coast over Spring Break Week and 4 nights somewhere in a 2br somewhere else over the summer. If I were willing to put all 4 of us into a 1br right now when we travel...I'd get more time than that.

4)Based on the numbers shown above (the ones that include financing costs)...if zed (or anyone) sells their ownership after 20 years for half of what they paid for it...they would have paid less than they would have in hotels for the same number of nights (factoring in inflation...and the savings is even greater if you factor in food savings). So for LESS money...the 12,000 credit WM owner, using ONLY their credits, would have spent a week a year in 3 br condos as opposed to hotel rooms at the end of 20 years...if they sold their 12,000 credits for just $10,000 in 2026. If they GAVE it away...it would probably be about the break even point. If on the other hand...they hang on to the ownership...the value gets even better and they can leave it to their kids, who get the value without the buy-in costs.

None of that takes into account the added value of having access to BT and IS...and for those who use it alot...it adds considerable value and travel time.

I get that it doesnt work for everyone...but it's not a rip-off for everyone either. I'm sorry for those who own WM and feel as though they were ripped off or who get no use out of it...really. I just felt a need to show the other side of the coin as well...and there are alot of owners who love WM and for whom it works financially...even financed.

Having said all THAT...NO one should be lied to at a presentation....ever. I firmly believe that WM is worth it's asking price...and it's got enough value in it's own right without requiring lies to sell it...I HATE that.

PS to darklingthrush: Those RCI specials (like BT sorta) are called "last calls"...and they border on the ridiculous!! A friend of mine went down to La Isla de Mujeres Resort and Yacht Club(off the coast of Cancun) this past October...he and his wife stayed in a studio with a full kitchen at $129 per week. He booked 2 consecutive weeks so his 2 weeks in Mexico cost him $258. On top of that...he had taken a bump the last time they flew...so they only had to pay taxes on their flight...round trip for both of them was only $108!!! Then in Dec he got an instant exchange (4000 credits) into the Pueblo Bonita resort at Emerald Bay...HOLY COW was that a nice resort!!! Truth be told...he's kinda getting on my nerves cause he's having TOO much fun and making me a bit jealous (his kids are grown and he's able to travel more easily than I can right now)

I'm going to keep my part short here. When I finally got to use it for the first time I booked 7 months in advance and even then I had to jockey around with dates to get it. It took two years of banked credits and borrowing half the credits for the following year to stay in San Francisco for two weeks in September! When we get there there's two rooms and one of those was the bathroom! So much for the 3 bedroom condo being the reason it took so many credits; "Just being honest here" ? What a CROCK!!! It's just another Trendwest lie!

The living/sleeping area had a hotel sized fridge,microwave, and coffee maker. So I'm now calculating 3 meals a day for two weeks in San Fran. Our meal bill was staggering because we thought we would be getting a kitchen and did not budget for eating out 3 times a day. The last few days we found a grocery store and bought Mac N' Cheese bowls.

Gee thanks Trendwest...thanks a lot.

Not quite sure why my "honesty" with regards to my pre-ownership travel (or lack there-of ) was determined to be "a crock". (?) I was talking about myself and others that I know in that paragraph . Prior to owning WM, I would have never known about TS rentals etc....and a great money-saving deal for me was truly a budget motel. To quote myself:

"MY kind of great deal (prior to owning) would have been $80/nt in a room at a motel 6 on the coast...not a $500 condo rental. Just being honest here...I know those deals are out there...I just never knew about them."

Your anger seems a bit mis-directed. :shrug:

As for SF...the credit values are higher in all of the urban locations and the units offer fewer amenities...and that info is available on the resort pages at the WM website should you choose to look at what a resort offers prior to booking. I'm sorry you were disappointed. There are those who have enough credits to comfortably use SF...I'm not one of them either. I find I get far better value for my credits elsewhere in the system based on the number of credits I own.

To quote you with regard to expenses for food on vacation...

"Our meal bill was staggering because we thought we would be getting a kitchen and did not budget for eating out 3 times a day."

While this was a problem for you in SF because you obviously didnt know what type of room you were booking or what amenities the resort offers...it's one of the very reasons that my vacations are more affordable now...because I book units with full kitchens (or at places like the Camlin where there is at least a fridge, micro, and bbq available for use...I can get lots done with just those three items )

I will admit that...in MY particular circumstance...I'll have spent more in the next 20 years on vacations than I would have if I didnt own WM. The reason for that, however, is because I would have continued on as I had been and only vacationed for about 1 week every 5 years. (and that's just not acceptable to me anymore) So...yes, I believe I'll spend more than I would have...but less than I would have if I had been the type to vacation every year in hotels. For me, vacations are now a regular part of my lifestyle (which thrills me) and they're far more enjoyable because of the type of accomodations I'm in (esp with 2 children).

With regard to some of the rest...to quote zed...

"It takes about 12,000 credits for a week in a condo, give or take. That means an average of ONE vacation per year for us."

If talking averages...the average 12,000 credit week in a WM resort will get you a 3br condo (or a week in a 2br in HI or Cabo). Of those resorts that have 3br units...about 85% require 12,000 credits to book a full week. A few require an extra 1 or 2 thousand credits (like Orlando which requires 13,000). The urbans have higher credit values and dont offer 3br's.

Anyway...again...I'm sorry about your experiences and your impressions of WM. I'm happy with my own experiences and just wanted to put the other side out there for those who might read here. For that reason...I wont be deleting either of my last two posts. I'm extremely happy with my ownership and feel compelled to let others hear from someone who enjoys WM. There is a privately owned website (created by owners with no connection to TW) that's full of happy folks who use WM regularly...so it's not just me.

Like anything else...one must figure out how to make whatever-it-is work for any value to be derived from "it"...be it a DVD player, a car with GPS/onstar/and who-knows-what-else, or...in this case...a TS ownership. Having said that...not everyone has the same needs/interests...and not all things work for all people. Regardless...it bears repeating that nothing excuses being lied to at a presentation.

Ladycody, take heart --- at least your post was allowed to remain. I submitted a long response last Thursday morning (before leaving for a wonderful 5 day WorldMark vacation over a holiday weekend ) and it was apparenty deleted --- it does not show up here.

I do not remember the entire post, but the main point was that in my first five years of ownership with a 6000 point account, I booked 192 vacation nights. That's an average of 38.4 nights -- over FIVE WEEKS -- per year. Some of those nights were used by family and friends -- I unfortunately do not have time to take as many vacations as WM makes possible for me. These nights included stays on WM credits, Bonus Time, Inventory Special, and RCI/II exchanges.

I, too, track my expenses very closely. If I include in my costs the initial purchase, the interest paid on that purchase (I immediately paid off the developer's 13.99% loan with a Home Equity Line of Credit, saving myself 8% per year and gaining tax advantages), my annual maintenance fees, housekeeping fees, bonus time and inventory special costs, II and RCI membership and exchange fees, and municipal occupancy taxes -- in other words, EVERY PENNY I have paid for my accommodations -- it works out to $89.93 per night.

Obviously timeshare is not right for everyone, and the WorldMark system is not right for all timeshare users. But when I read blanket statements about it being a rip off and a scam, I feel that I have to speak up and show the other side of the coin.

I like Ladycody's reference to a DVD player or a car with a GPS system. In my missing post, I likened it to a computer or a new entertainment system. You wouldn't declare it a fraud simply because you can't work it straight out of the box ... you would take the time to read the instructions and learn how to use it correctly. I went to an Owner Education class (by the way -- they are heavily advertised on the Trendwest website and in the monthly Destinations magazine that is sent to owners, so I don't know how anyone could say that they didn't know they were available) within a couple of weeks of purchasing. But even before attending the class, I found an online forum for WorldMark owners. By the time I got to the class, I had already learned everything the class had to offer and more. That forum, which was heavily monitored by TrendWest, no longer exists. But there is a similar and more open forum available at www.wmowners.com (Someone posted the link to that website on your blog nearly a year ago, and I believe it is the one Ladycody refers to above.)

Before you unilaterally declare the program to be a fraud and a cheat, please take the time to learn what the program is. As Ladycody said, if you went to the San Francisco location expecting a three-bedroom condo with a full kitchen, you have obviously made NO effort, even in your own vacation plans.

Heya Scrappy...yup...that was the website I was referring to.

In fairness to Leuan...the original post does say "As I said the resorts are beautiful and they do offer everything under the sun"

The only misconception is that it requires advanced planning. Truly all it requires is a bit of flexibility and some know-how....although advanced planning works well too, of course.

When I want bonus time...I simply look for what's open that's within driving distance...and that's where I go. It gives me the chance to check out new places or to re-visit places that I've already been and enjoyed. Regardless...I'm not at home thinking of all the things I ought to be doing...so it's a wonderful break. If, on the other hand...you're the type that always wants very specific dates at a specific resort in a specific sized unit...it will, naturally, be harder to utilize. Those are the reservations that most of us use our credits to book with advanced planning.

*A note here for Earnest....you dont have to pay for nights using bonus time...you're always free to use your credits if you have them available...it's simply an option for extra travel (over and above credits use) at extremely low rates without having to use your credits. It helps keep MF's lower by providing a bit of supplementary income from the owners who use it...which is then applied toward resort expenses instead of those empty rooms bringing in zero income toward expenses.

Anyway...Leuan did admit that WM offers great resorts, and while I still firmly believe that most people can get great use out of it if they really learn how to use it, there are a few that it just likely wont work for.

Point of order....I NEVER delete posts. One it ruins the continuity of following posts and two I do not believe in censorship. To prove my point I quoted Ladycody's post in order to save it because she had deleted one. So before you accuse me of deleting your post you could have asked if it was deleted and why.

Ladycody - there was no anger in my post at all. There was nothing to get angry over and even if I was angry there would be far more stringent words. And really I don't anger easily...except with the lying rat-filth Trendwest broker I dealt with. I didn't realize that when you said you were just being honest you meant that it only related to pre-ownership travel. Mea culpa.

The only misconception is that it requires advanced planning. Truly all it requires is a bit of flexibility and some know-how....although advanced planning works well too, of course.

This is not a misconception - when I have called to book a location I have been told to plan at least six month out, period. I love the Trendwest person's comment when I complained about having difficulty booking on short notice: "Well what do you think a time share is?!" No help was offered what so ever. I was dumb founded.

Yeah be felxable, when I have two measly days to take a break somewhere, ANYWHERE in Oregon and they want to send my butt to Texas! I think not. In fact our broker touted the joys of being able to go anywhere at anytime. Know-how? If I was told I would have to "get clever" to take a flipping vacation I would have said: "No thank you, not for that price." Currently I spend wonderful quick weekends in the woods and it costs a measly four bucks a day for camp fees.

Yes I said they offer great resorts...but they don't all offer the same thing. Not all resorts offer kitchens, or even something more that one room to live in - not what rat-filth told us.

Rat-filth never told us we would have to learn about all these little Trendwest secrets on how to use it, nor did he offer how to obtain this information. For what we are paying I expect some FUCKING CUSTOMER SERVICE! (That's anger)

Why did rat-filth go pale when I said I wanted to have my lawyer look over the contract before signing, then start talking a mile a minute about how that offer was only good for that day and the clock is ticking. Nothing changes that fast I've bought several houses and no one says "No deal" when you want a lawyer to look at the paperwork. And when my lawyer read the contract when I was desperate to get out on the premise I was lied to he said it was the most one sided contract he'd ever seen.

Fine Trendwest works for some people, that's fortunate for them. But when we told rat-filth just how tight our schedules were he should have either said this might not be for you or at the VERY least graced us with the "sacred fraternal" wisdom on how to get the most bang for our buck.

There is a fair amount of people who have felt burned by Trendwest I get more PM's than posts here of people who regret buying. I'm not saying people should not purchase Trendwest; just know what you are getting into, buy from a disgruntled owner who wants out - you'll save money and be sparing someone years of grief, and if you buy from a Trendwest broker ignore the high pressure sales and have your lawyer read that puppy before you sign! Any honest corporation should have NO objection to you wanting to protcet yourself.

"For what we are paying I expect some FUCKING CUSTOMER SERVICE! (That's anger)

sorry...but it cracked me up...I know it's not funny...but it was anyway. :blushing:

:ROFLMAO:

I'm sorry I don't know how to do a direct quote, but my words above were "it was apparently deleted ... it does not show up here." I did not say "ieuan deleted my post". All I know is that it was here (my husband read it from his office, not over my shoulder on the same computer, and commented to me about it) and now it is not.

It does sound like you had some horrible experiences with TW personnel. All I can do is offer my experiences, and those of many other happy WM owners, that have differed from yours. I can say "I want to go somewhere next weekend, what is available?" and get in. I can say "I want to go to Gleneden, when is it available?" and get it. If I say "I want to go to Gleneden next weekend", I am really pushing my luck.

I realize that you are just sharing your experience with others; I am doing the same. For someone to blindly accept your assessment of TW as "rat filth" and the program as useless is as wrong as for someone to embrace it based on only the comments of a salesman. (Let's face it --- salesmen are salesmen regardless of the industry. Even the most ardent of WorldMark supporters acknowledge there are salespeople who lie to their customers and are very upset about it. Fortunately there are some forthright, honest sales people in TW as well.)

Just trying to point out the other side of the coin.

No one can delete posts in a blog except the blog owner...that would be me. So yes that would imply "ieuan deleted my post."

Ahh but you see we were told we could go somewhere locally on a weeks notice. A lie. Sure I could have gone to Texas but I'm not going to Texas for a day and a half and a good portion of that time is traveling. Not going to happen.

For someone to blindly accept your assessment of TW as "rat filth" and the program as useless is as wrong as for someone to embrace it based on only the comments of a salesman.

I was not referring to Trendwest as rat-filth.... I specifically said:

And really I don't anger easily...except with the lying rat-filth Trendwest broker I dealt with.

Please try to keep up... Notice I said lying rat-filth Trendwest broker. Maybe I should have posted it thusly: rat-filth Trendwest BROKER[/u][/i]. Ok my fault.

I don't know of anyone who has "blindly accepted my assessment", nor would I want them to, so I'm not sure why you even threw that out there. But you are right about one thing; it is wrong to embrace only the comments of a salesman.... Dear Readers do not[/u] take the word of that salesman alone! Do some research.

Fine point out the other side of the coin, but you know what? We rarely hear about the crappy tarnished side, and that's where people get screwed.

If Trendwest was as pure as the driven snow they would have let us out of the flipping contract becaused we were lied to. We were not even asking for any of the money we had already paid in!! Hell I even have it paid off and I have asked to get out just because it is such a pain in the ass and I don't want to be strapped to the yearly fees for LIFE. No dice... we're stuck. Yeah Trendwest is a company that really gives a crap, about themselves.

Prospective buyers I repeat again....Have a lawyer read before you sign!!!!!!

I am one of the suckers who signed up. Just yesterday in fact. Someone's post said that you could get out of the contract in the first 3 days. Is that true? Does anyone know for sure? Please help me if you do. I feel like such a sucker.

Yup, you have 3 days, and the broker has to tell you that by law, I don't know if that's business days or not. I would play it safe and count the weekend days as part of the 3 days if you do want to back out.

Good luck, I wish I was in your shoes!

Ieuan