N +

What I meant by "almost done" was that design decisions were about wrapped up! I guess that it TOTALLY reads as 100% implemented though

oh, well, and hey guys internet is almost ready to be put into my new apartment! huzzah!

down with IE

I guess I could use the CSS bug in IE to get more people to use Opera

No offense Opera-lovers, but at least in my experience, Opera is not really that compatible (I know, blame it on the sites, programmers, etc... but still, its not compatible!). All of the banking sites I use don't work on Opera, get buggy on Firefox, and can get nasty on Safari. Using the posting editor on Firefox is just plain stupid (you can't insert text in the middle of your writing... everything gets placed at the end), and last time I checked, Opera consumed more resources than IE8 beta... (Again, this is in MY machine and MY experience... I know certain setups are known to affect certain browsers causing them to show memory leaks that are not otherwise present).

Meh its pretty ugly to me .
Why yellow its looks like you used some leftover atr suplys from an episode of the Simpsons .
Maybe this is what the wonky internet connection warned me about which affects N+ plus any page loaded only a couple minutes after n+ & its not only on my Wii also on my iPod touch .
Maybe its one of many Telstra* Ghosts (*Australian based telecomations company which 49% shares owned by the government) .

Spook81 part of the problem is web master not following the web standards and following Microsoft ones

You can always send feedback to the webmasters of the banking sites help open the web

See? I knew you would blame it on the programmers I have sent feedback, though, to both the sites and Opera (using the bundled tool)... Alas, if sooooo many sites out there are relying on MS's standards, then why doesn't Opera adopt them?

then Microsoft would have a monopoly on the web and they could do as they please with the web Opera chose the web standards set by W3C

you can also post about the bank issues here:
Open the Web & Take Action

I hope he's backing up his save data to the intertubes. Or else he might experience data rot. Eew!

Wait, a free DSi? I need to start sending Opera some Love.

Originally posted by Spook81:

Opera is not really that compatible

That's not really accurate. Opera is actually far more compatible than should be necessary, but that's what you get when everyone designs for IE. However, note that both IE7 and especially IE8 have had compatibility issues! That's because there are some major changes since IE6, so Microsoft fell into its own trap. And webmasters had to spend ages fixing their sites because they designed specifically for IE in the first place instead of using standards.

Further to that, most of the compatibility problems with opera are due to browser sniffing.

More information on compatibility:

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=259677

last time I checked, Opera consumed more resources than IE8 beta

That shouldn't be the case. However, IE is automatically run when you start Windows, so a lot of the memory usage is "hidden".

Again, that's just my personal experience (and that of many of my coworkers, who I must admit, I convinced to download Opera and then we all agreed Firefox with the IE plugin was our best bet so far). I really tried Opera, and the experience of it, wheather you want to blame it on site design or not, for me, was not a pleasant one.
If most of the sites I use (and most of them for business) are not Opera-compatible, then Opera is NOT the right browser FOR ME.
As for the memory leaks, like I said, there are tons of factors that affect it; for instance, IE8-RC1 in my computer consumed almost twice as much as the last beta did.
I'm not defending IE or sites not using standards. But come on, for instance, if your country's currency is coins, you're not gonna try to pay everything using ruppies just because you like them better. Stick to what works.
As for the browser sniffing, I used the ID thingy included in Opera to 'mask' its identity as IE and Firefox and even as unknown...same results: the site, once in the secure transactions' page, didn't work.

Spook81: I suggest that you read the thread I linked to. As you will find, it clearly says:

"Opera has been built from the ground up to deal with non-standard code"

So your currency comment is rather misplaced. The rest of your comment doesn't really address what I said about compatibility. I wasn't trying to start a discussion, I was merely correcting misconceptions about compatibility.

Note that the masking feature in Opera doesn't hide Opera completely. There are still multiple ways to detect Opera, so sites could be using one of those.

Haavard, again... MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE! I've read tooons of threads trying to 'find a cure' for the things that go wrong with Opera in MY COMPUTER, to no avail. The currency comment is merely to point out that fanatism, sometimes, is just plain stubborness. For me, for the sites that I use often, what works right now, is IE, so it didn't matter that I wanted to switch to Opera (which I did for a couple of months) and it didn't matter that Opera was built from the ground up for non-standard code; bottom line was that FOR ME it didn't work. So even if I liked Opera for the interface, for how fast it was with the sites that worked, for the extra features it boasts, if it doesn't work with half the sites I need to use on a daily basis, then why stick to it? Just because I like it? (Again, I cannot stress the word "I" enough...)

Once again, this is not about personal experience. My comment was about the concept of compatibility in general. You seemed to believe that sites break because Opera refuses to deal with non-standard code, and I explained that this is incorrect.

I don't know what you are trying to say with your "fanatism(?) and stubbornness" comment.

Once again, this is not about personal experience.

Yes, it is!! How many times must I say this: THE COMMENT IS ON MYYYYYY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE!!! OK, so Opera DOES deal with non-standard code and the 'evil' ones are the site programmers who sniff out your browser and don't let you in unless you're using Firefox or IE. Whatever the reason, the fact remains: the sites IIIII use DON'T work with Opera.
With fanatism I mean exactly that; how people just because they're fans of Linux, Opera, Apple, etc. can go to any length to crucify more comercially-focused applications (mostly MS, I admit) just because they came up with a way to make real money out of it. I don't approve of monoplic behaviour, and I do believe Windows, for instance, has a loooooooooooot of room for improvement... but just because I like Mac's better (and I do), I'm not about to switch to Mac when 90% of the software I use at work doesn't run on Macs. But if I were a graphic designer, the story would be different and I wouldn't think twice before switching to Apple's systems. Same thing with browsers; IE's might be buggy, FireFox may be almost there but not quite, and Opera might be just right... but if when you're using it, FOR WHATEVER REASON, the browser doesn't work with the pages and tools you require, what are you going to 'switch off', the sites you need or the browser you can change?

Once again, my comment was not about personal experience. I wrote to clarify about browser compatibility in general, regardless of personal experiences.

Fans of Opera and Apple can hardly crucify something for being commercial, considering that both Apple and Opera Software are commercial entities. However, there's a difference between being a commercial entity and breaking the law (which Microsoft has done frequently). They broke the law with IE and illegally abused its dominance in the desktop market to prevent competition in the browser market. But that's a different discussion, I guess.

Yup, and this might not be the right forum for this, so maybe we should close this debate hehe...
And fanatism to the extreme is possible; two of them right here in my office; their machines running hot and at half performance just because they HAVE to use Linux in their machines. What happens when they work with automation software wich only works under Windows? Emulate it. Oh, waaait...we are an Automation company! We work with that software all the time! (And yes, the better solution would be to install Windows on a different partition...but that's how fanatical they can get)

I'd actually agree with Haavard here, and he's one of the last people at Opera you want to get into an argument about the merits of browser compatibility. He's EXTREMELY knowledgable about it and gets paid to know what he knows. It'd be like trying to argue space time continuum with Albert Einstein. It's futile. It's not about your personal experience, but based upon your personal ignorance of how the web functions. In most cases compatibility problems are due to programmer error rather than browser developer error. This goes for all browsers, not just Opera. IE 7 and 8 are experiencing the same problems that Opera and other browsers do when viewing websites that were programmed for IE 6 in the past as now Microsoft has decided to get on the right track to supporting web standards.

Most "compatibility" problems you run into with Opera can be patched yourself by spoofing Firefox. Right-click on the website, go to "edit site preferences", click on the network tab, and select "Mask as Firefox". Reload the page and Opera should load the page fine as their scripts will believe Opera is Firefox. It won't solve all problems, but it should solve at least 70-75% of them. Sometimes, abeit rather rarely, it can be a bug.

I use a very local credit union as a bank, and I can even get their shitty ass website working on Opera without any effort on my part. I'm unsure if I've run into a real compatibility problem in quite some time.

Opera, Apple, and Mozilla has people working for them who's entire job is to contact webmasters who block Opera and other "alternate" browsers. They work with them to provide information on how to get their websites out to more people. If you run into something you feel might be a real compatibility problem contact Opera about it. They read all bug reports and compatibility reports.

As for memory usage Haavard is correct yet again. Internet Explorer uses on Vista 3 main processes while there are numerous subprocesses used by the browser, the majority of which are already reserved in memory by the system itself as the system boots up.

This really isn't the place to discuss this, as this is about the change in design of N+. I'm sure my statements about the slow loading of the website spurned this discussion, and it's slow on people with SLOW computers as PNG graphics typically take up more memory than other formats. The old layout was full of 'em.

@KawaiiPikachu: Sorry, but that's the color of Travis Touchdown's bathroom walls. Give it a month and the yellow'll go away.

@Khadkar .
I didn't realise but i be looking forwar to the next headder next month .