Who Is The Safe Choice For The White House? (Updated May 11, 2008)
Friday, May 9, 2008 8:22:20 AM
Here is the map between the Democrats and Republicans this year where each party is certain to win their respective states. Blue is where both Obama and Hillary would win against McCain by 5% or more. Red is where McCain would win by 5% or more against both Obama and Hillary.
(edit May 11, 2008: Hillary now leads by 6% in Oregon. Oregon is now safe Dem)
(US Map taken from WikiMedia commons.)

I also looked at history to see if there was any chance of these states going to democrats. The only states that I put in red that were less than 5% were Nebraska and Indiana. Indiana has never been won by a Democrat in over 40 years when LBJ won almost every state except the south. So I've left it out since not even Bill Clinton won that state in either 1992 or 1996. It COULD come into play, but it would be very close if it does and we know that Hillary won that primary. It's a toss up at best. IOW, Democrats can't rely on it. About Nebraska, there's simply no way it's going Democrat this year.
So we have 169 electoral votes left in play for both sides.
Democrats need 95 electoral votes. (56%)
Republicans need 76 electoral votes. (44%)
Let's start with Obama. We'll fill in what he is currently winning by 5% or more as well as what he is losing by 5% or more.

He's certainly made up some ground, but so has McCain.
There are now 109 electoral votes left in play.
Obama needs 63 electoral votes. (58%)
McCain needs 48 electoral votes. (44%)
It's basically a toss up so far. Obama can win, but he's going to have to work for it. The outcome is far from certain. The three swing states OH, PA & FL are in play for both McCain and Obama. Obama currently leads McCain by 4 points in PA, but trails by one in the other two.
Now let's add in where they stand in the polls today. The states where there is less than 5% difference. (edit: Obama is now losing WI against McCain by 4%)

Obama falls 6 electoral votes short and loses the White House. Even with either NM or NE, he's still one short. This is certainly not written in stone, but I show the above map to demonstrate that it is indeed too close to call.
Now we look at Hillary's map and add in the states that have more than a 5% difference. (Note that WI & MI are ties in many polls, but we take them away from Hillary to put her at a disadvantage).

Hillary has gained a lot of ground from the very first map.
There are now 60 electoral votes left in play.
Hillary needs 22 electoral votes. (37%)
McCain needs 40 electoral votes. (67%)
Note that I wanted to put Hillary at a disadvantage here. As I said earlier, I made her lose WI & MI according to the current polls (even though it's a tie in many polls). I also put WA and OR in the toss up category. Would KY & MO go for Hillary? The polls say she's behind by 2 and ahead by 1 point respectively. Also, the reason I'm leaving them in as toss ups is because the Democrats (Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton) that have won the White House in the last 40 years won them both every time. In every other case where Democrats have lost, they also lost KY & MO. That Hillary is having a strong showing there should not be dismissed so easily. In any case, I leave them as toss ups.
Here is Hillary's map with the current polls used to fill in the rest.

She wins with 21 extra electoral votes. Note that this is without MI & WI & KY. She could lose either OH or PA and still win. Even with losing FL, she can make up the difference (KY or the combination of NH & NM). Take out MO and she still wins with 10 electoral votes to spare. That means she could lose either OR or IA as well and she still win. Let's show her map without MO & IA.

She still wins. That's taking away at LEAST 5 states that she's winning or is competitive in. Again, I want to put her at a disadvantage to see what she would get.
Let's compare both of their chances more closely.
Here are Obama's toss up states assuming he takes PA.
FL: 27
OH: 20
MI: 17
WI: 10
CO: 9
NM: 5
42 electoral votes to go.
88 remaining.
Obama MUST get 48% of those electoral votes.
MI and WI look like they will go to Obama. (27)
That leaves 15 electoral votes.
Where does he get them?
FL: 27
OH: 20
CO: 9
NM: 5
CO & NM combination is impossible. That's 1 short of what is needed. That would be devastating, no? Coming one short. Though McCain would also be one short. Not sure what would happen in that case. (edit: Congress choses the President and VP, see below). This means for a clear win, he absolutely NEEDS OH or FL to make up the difference. If Obama can't get either FL or OH, he will lose and the polls are not strong for him, especially FL will be difficult considering he said no to a revote there. McCain is ahead by one in each of those states. It's still possible, but uncertain.
So the problem is that ALL his missing electoral votes are concentrated in ONE place (either FL or OH). It's do or die. There's no buffer or backup for Obama at all. He has to win one of those two SPECIFIC states.
For Hillary, she'll have these toss ups to fight for:
WA: 11
OR: 7
NM: 5
IA: 7
MO: 11
KY: 8
NH: 4
CT: 7
MI: 17
WI: 10
22 electoral votes to go. (And WA should not be difficult cutting it down to 11 electoral votes to go.)
87 remaining up for grabs.
Hillary must win 25% of them.
With WA in her column, she needs 15% of what remains. (11 electoral votes to go).
She can win with WA, NH and CT. (22 electoral votes).
(edit: OR is now safely in Hillary's column. If we add WA as well, she needs 4 electoral votes out of 76 (5%). She can easily get CT or NH for the rest.)
Mathematically, it's virtually impossible for her to lose the White House if she were the nominee. WA & CT are already in Hillary's column right now with NH being very close.
OR, MO, IA are also currently in her column.
That's a 47 electoral vote buffer where she can get them from many different locations. And I'm sure Hillary will fight for MI, WI, KY and NM as well.
Worst case scenario is that Hillary wins the White House.
Best case scenario for Obama is a toss up and a fight for either OH or FL if McCain doesn't make gains in PA.
In the end, it still comes down to PA, OH and FL for Obama.
For Democrats, this should be the deciding factor. Who can win for certain? From the facts, Hillary should be an easy choice for the Democrats if the objective is winning the White House.
UPDATE
Check this out. I was flipping through old electoral maps and noticed something strange. Here is Obama's map again.

Now Al Gore's from 2000.

Can you spot the difference? Here's a hint. (I overlapped them one on top of the other)

If that doesn't freak you out, I don't know what will. John Kerry's map is almost identical too.
UPDATE #2
In the event of a tie, Congress chooses the President and VP. The House chooses the President. But there is only one vote per state. Each delegation from each state would vote for that state and the majority from the delegation would be the vote submitted for President for that state. This means whomever has the most states would win. Democrats have 26 states, so that's good news for Obama and Hillary as long as everyone shows up.
For VP, it's the Senate that decides. Each senator gets one vote and the majority selects the VP. The Senate is currently evenly split because Joe Lieberman announced his support of Senator McCain.
If the House is tied, then the VP chosen by the Senate becomes the President. If this were the case, it'd be an interesting scenario as the Senate would be tied. No provision is made to break this tie. Chaos would ensue and the Universe would cease to exist. Even if the House is not tied, chosing the VP with the current Senate is impossible unless Bernie Sanders (Ind.) breaks from the Democrats or if a party member votes for the other side (unlikely).
UPDATE #3 Strategy for McCain against Obama
Right off the start, it should be mentioned that if McCain gets both of MI & WI, McCain wins. Obama can carry both swing states of OH & PA and a bunch of other states like CO, NH & NM and he'd still lose. Not a great way to start a fight for the White House.
I then say McCain should concentrate on getting three states that have low electoral vote counts in order to mix and match with the other states. NH(4), NM(5) & CO(9) should be of prime importance for McCain. At minimum, getting NM would be great because it means McCain can grab either OH or PA and he wins. With NH alone, only PA gives McCain the win, but OH creates a tie (Obama would be chosen President by the House though the VP could be chaos).
If McCain gets 9 electoral votes from NH & NM together or from CO alone, his options get even better. He can add MI to the list of choices. Take one of those three (MI, OH or PA) and McCain gets over 271 electoral votes. Though currently unlikely, he also has the option of getting OR & WI (or IA & WI) instead of the traditional swing states for the win. You could also mix and match two of OR (or IA), WI & MI for the win. Like I said, LOTS of options. Obama has to watch both OR and IA and make sure he keeps his lead. They don't seem to be at any risk now, but if I were McCain, I wouldn't leave any strategy unchecked.
Getting all three of NH, NM and CO gets even more evil for McCain. At this point, McCain can grab ONE of OR, IA, WI, MI, OH & PA. ONE OF THESE!!! OR & IA would probably be out of reach, yet that avenue should be checked out come this November because they both have 7 electoral votes, exactly what's needed for McCain to reach exactly 270.
Say Obama takes all three of NH, NM and CO (Obama's BEST case scenario) then McCain still has a decent chance to win. He needs two of WI, MI, OH & PA. If he splits these states, McCain wins. So holding on to three of WI, MI, OH & PA as well as ALL of NH, NM and CO is Obama's BEST CASE SCENARIO to win the White House. And he MUST make sure that none of NH, NM and CO falls to McCain. That's a tight race for Obama.
Therefore I predict that if Obama is the nominee, you will see a HUGE contest in the following states: NH, NM, CO, OH, WI & MI. If I were to bet, I'd say NH, NM, MI & OH would be prime targets. With NH & NM in McCain's column, his easiest target is either MI or OH for the win. So look at MI & OH for the biggest fights with WI as backup.
McCain has all sorts of diversionary tactics he can use. Really, the only way he loses is if he falls asleep during his entire campaign. When you can win and still leave OH & PA to your opponent, you know you've got a sweet deal.
UPDATE #4 Best Case Scenarios
Obama:

Buffer of 19 electoral votes. That's cutting it close. Other than CO & NM, this is the ONLY map where Obama wins. Lose anything else and it's game over. I don't see how it's possible for Obama to hold onto the above map unless McCain sits home.
Hillary:

Buffer of 71 electoral votes. She could lose ALL three swing states OH, PA & FL and still win with 273. Think about that for a second. Losing would be very difficult.
UPDATE #5 Swing States
Here is a map of the swing states. I then added in who won each of these states in the primaries. Recents polls put Oregon safely in the Dem camp. I also put WA in the safe Dem camp. You may subtract 11 from Hillary if you wish, but I don't realistically see Hillary losing Washington. Missouri was problematic. Obama won that primary by 1%. But it has since gone safe Republican against Obama while Hillary has moved up in the polls. Do I give it to Obama or Hillary? I left it out for now.
In the case of Michigan, I had difficulty here too. Do I award it to Hillary because she's won it by a bigger margin than all the uncommited combined? Or do I give it to Obama who is polling ahead of Hilary?

They both start off with 200 electoral votes (added WA, OR & CT from earlier maps).
Note that not all states are up for grabs by both candidates. Obama cannot get KY, WV, FL, NH & MO. His maximum is 89 extra electoral votes. Hillary cannot get CO. Her maximum is 124 extra electoral votes.
Max total electoral votes:
Obama: 289
Hillary: 324
Max margin of victory:
Obama: 19
Hillary: 54 (71 w/ MO & AR)
I don't care what way you spin it, Obama only has a buffer of 19 electoral votes. There are ZERO other states availble to him.
UPDATE #6 Note to McCain
Hey McCain (or one of his advisors), if you happen to read this and you're up against Obama, DO NOT FORGET THIS MAP!!!

Oregon can be swapped for Iowa too.
If you're an Obama supporter (or an SD) and you don't see what's devastating about the above map or don't think it's realistic, then you need to take a good cold hard look at the path to victory for Obama. Sit down and work it out. Don't listen to what I've said. No one will be looking. Prove it to yourself.
UPDATE #7 Hillary's Voters
What would happen if Hillary's voters stay home or vote for McCain?
(Note: I'm not showing the following maps to put down Obama as some people are claiming. I'm showing this to show how foolish it is for Obama's campaign and his surrogates like Donna Brazile on CNN to say that Hillary's voters are not necessary. Both sides need ALL democrats in November. But if Obama doesn't want Hillary's supporters, here's a look into the future come this November if Obama is the nominee.)
Light blue is leans Obama (less than 5% for Obama).
Light red is leans McCain (less than 5% for McCain).
Stay Home: 1 out of 4
for McCain: 1 out of 4
Total: 2 out of 4 (50% of Hillary's voters don't vote for Obama)

Stay Home: 1 out of 8
for McCain: 1 out of 8
Total: 2 out of 8 (25% of Hillary's voters don't vote for Obama)

Stay Home: 1 out of 16
for McCain: 1 out of 16
Total: 2 out of 16 (12.5% of Hillary's voters don't vote for Obama)

Disaster waiting to happen.
UPDATE #8 ccAdvertsing Poll
Not sure as the accuracy of this poll or even who they are, but I thought it would be interesting to update my maps with this new data.
May 12, 2008: I have since looked around at who exactly ccAdvertising is. They seem to be used only by right wing candidates. Bush used them against McCain. Huckabee and Romney have also used them. What they do is ask extremely off base questions to put ideas into the heads of voters. It worked for Bush who used it against McCain in the 2000 Republican primaries. Is McCain using them? I don't know. What we do know is that this company has only ever been used by right wing candidates to push negative polling questions about their opponents. From what I've read, they are effective and often accurate. As you can see below, they've hit both Hillary and Obama in the polls. We can only hope their effect is overstated.
From May 1, 2008 through May 5, 2008, ccAdvertising completed a survey to a combined total of 90,000 homes in California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Missouri, New Hampshire, New York, Ohio and Pennsylvania (10,000 homes from each state) extracted from the ccAdvertising database.
I updated those 9 states in my maps. A few didn't change anything. But the ones that did were shocking. I also updated a few states with new polls that came out recently.
We'll show Hillary first this time.

Doesn't look good, eh? She can still win though. She needs to get two of these: MI, WI & IL. These are all polling very close with MI as a tie, so it's a likely scenario.
Well, take a look at Obama.

KAPOW McCain style!
WTF happened there?
Results for McCain vs Hillary and McCain vs Obama.
Scores are how much Hillary or Obama are ahead of McCain.
+is a win for Hillary or Obama. -is a loss.
Hillary Obama Difference (for Obama from Hillary)
California +15.82% +12.88% -2.94
Colorado -5.44 -1.98 +3.46
Florida -11.46 -25.52 -14.06
Illinois -2.29 +9.23 +11.52
Missouri +3.97 -10.61 -14.58
New Hampshire -5.9 -6.67 -0.77
New York +7.88 +1.31 -6.57
Ohio +1.02 -18.18 -19.2
Pennsylvania +7.51 -5.95 -13.46
If these polls are true, it's sick sick sick. Hillary retains OH & PA. But Obama is bleeding support everywhere except in his home state of Illinois and in Colorado.
Florida: Obama loses by 25.52% to McCain.
New York: Obama is ONE lonely point ahead of McCain.
Ohio: Obama loses by 18.18% to McCain.
Pennsylvania: Obama loses by 5.95 to McCain with a 13.46% lower than Hillary.
These polls reflect exactly what Hillary supporters have been saying. OH & FL are 100% out of his reach. Working class voters don't want Obama. And these polls show exactly what I've been trying to show. Hillary can lose a few states and still remain competitive. Obama cannot. Without Ohio, Obama has ZERO chance.
I hope this isn't what Obama meant by "Change".


1 2 Next »
Anonymous # Friday, May 9, 2008 11:04:30 AM
Anonymous # Friday, May 9, 2008 2:21:09 PM
Vorlath # Friday, May 9, 2008 3:36:08 PM
A new poll today shows Obama losing WI to McCain. If that's so, he has ZERO chance of winning in November.
Anonymous # Friday, May 9, 2008 5:00:32 PM
Vorlath # Friday, May 9, 2008 5:29:42 PM
BTW, I don't care who wins. I'm Canadian. There is no "get(ing) over it." I was never under it to begin with. This just shows your irrational attachment to your candidate. I only used NUMBERS. That's all I care about.
My data isn't flawed either. Obama will not get the white vote. He's supposed to have been the presumptive nominee for a VERY long time and he keeps losing. Since February, he's won a grand total of two states. As a Canadian who's watched a lot of elections, please explain how this works? Maybe because I'm Canadian I don't understand how losing is actually winning. Because if he's losing now, how is he going to win in November? Is Hillary stronger than McCain? If so, then that's an argument as to why Hillary should be the nominee. If not, then he's got a serious problem when it comes to winning swing states. What's the presumptive nominee doing losing states at this stage of the game? I want to know. I'll add it in if you can explain it.
Obama supporters need to realise that there are people on this planet who have ZERO involvement and have ZERO stakes in the game. Whatever way it plays out is fine by me. But by these numbers, Obama cannot win in November. You can call it flawed data or wishful thinking, but it is what it is. The numbers are there.
Also, you're only thinking about the nomination. This article isn't about Hillary vs. Obama for the nomination. It's about winning the White House. The ultimate goal is the White House. The nomination and delegates are worth zip in the general election. They are worthless. By your comment, you don't seem interested in the path to victory. Only about getting to the next stage. As a Democrat, you should want the best person who can win. Not the one you have a personal attachment to.
Anonymous # Saturday, May 10, 2008 6:58:47 AM
Anonymous # Saturday, May 10, 2008 9:45:19 AM
Anonymous # Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:25:29 AM
Anonymous # Saturday, May 10, 2008 1:04:03 PM
Vorlath # Saturday, May 10, 2008 1:26:14 PM
PaseoDelMar # Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:54:28 PM
I find the ONLY objective analysis I can find comes from OUTSIDE the USA. How sad that a US citizen must look outside her country for honest reporting.
Keep up the good work. Hillary is the CLEAR best choice for the Presidency and should be the nominee in spite of all the media bias and bias within the Democratic Party elite who are looking to overthrow our Party with their own radical left agenda. The Democratic base knows what they are up to!
Vorlath # Saturday, May 10, 2008 3:21:26 PM
Best case scenario is up. Thank you for visiting, but you may want to know that I won't have many articles about politics on this site (my regular readers hate it hehe). As a programmer, I'm interested in numbers and wanted to see what the electoral map would disclose. However, I will update this post as I get more poll information every now and then.
Anonymous # Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:45:20 PM
Anonymous # Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:15:16 AM
Anonymous # Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:23:46 AM
Anonymous # Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:30:31 AM
Anonymous # Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:59:58 AM
Anonymous # Sunday, May 11, 2008 2:04:50 AM
Anonymous # Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:14:29 AM
Anonymous # Sunday, May 11, 2008 4:59:05 AM
Vorlath # Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:46:17 PM
That last sentence is your problem. I've shown, and you seem to agree, that Hillary is winning NOW and Obama needs to do a LOT of work. What you've said is EXACTLY my point. Things NEED to change in order for Obama to win in November. But not for Clinton.
What states can Obama get in November? No matter what Obama does, he only has a buffer of 19 electoral votes. What states can he win in November? I just don't see it.
He's hemorrhaging voters at an unprecedented rate. For Obama, MO has gone safely Republicans as is Florida. He has ZERO chance in KY, WV & NH unlike Clinton. The fact is that come November, there are ZERO states available to him where he can be competive beyond what I've shown. It's physically impossible.
All you've got is wishful thinking. There's nothing about what you've said that is based in facts. For example, Obama's lead is attributed to wins in red states that won't count in November. Nothing has changed since last September as far as his chances to win in November. His chances are still the same as they were last year, NIL.
Keith:
They're already up. It's the first chart for each candidate. Obama gets 207 electoral votes (63 away) vs. 248 for Hillary (22 away).
Recent polls put OR safely in her column and WA & CT will be in her column as well. So it would be 273 for Hillary (+3 FTW). Her worst case scenario is winning the White House.
As others have mentioned, I did not indicate how CA, NJ and MA may come into play in November for McCain against Obama. So I don't deal in speculation. If the polls start bearing this out, I'll post more updates.
63 to go may not seem that bad. The problem is that he needs 3 of these four WI, MI, OH & PA. The only one that is likely for Obama is PA where he leads by 4. He could keep OH & PA and still lose. If you want a further worse case, Obama stands to lose almost every state including all blue states. If he can't convince Hillary supporters to come to his side, it's a real possibility. This possibility is backed up by 50% of Hillary supporters saying they will not vote for Obama.
You do bring up a good point though. From the first chart, according to the primary results, who gets the most electoral votes? I'll put that up as an update.
Samantha:
Yeah, it is getting more difficult for Dems to win. That's more reason why the Dems need a candidate that has a different electoral map than Al Gore and John Kerry.
Vorlath # Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:04:36 PM
Anonymous # Sunday, May 11, 2008 7:50:48 PM
Anonymous # Monday, May 12, 2008 3:33:49 AM
Anonymous # Monday, May 12, 2008 4:00:12 AM
Anonymous # Monday, May 12, 2008 4:11:34 AM
Anonymous # Monday, May 12, 2008 4:32:23 AM
Anonymous # Monday, May 12, 2008 4:35:09 AM
Anonymous # Monday, May 12, 2008 4:41:23 AM
Anonymous # Monday, May 12, 2008 4:44:23 AM
Anonymous # Monday, May 12, 2008 4:55:50 AM
Anonymous # Monday, May 12, 2008 9:28:19 AM
Vorlath # Monday, May 12, 2008 11:41:48 AM
Anonymous # Monday, May 12, 2008 10:43:13 PM
Vorlath # Monday, May 12, 2008 11:15:52 PM
Worst case for what? Give me the numbers and I'll put them up. It's pretty obvious the Dems are heading into a disaster no matter who wins because of the nomination process and how the media has handled it.
I put up the charts for what would happen if Hillary's supporters don't vote for Obama for the following reason. So that Obama supporters and Obama's campaign stop telling Hillary's supporters that they don't matter. Whomever wins will need all Democrats and Obama will NOT get them if he keeps calling them racist and insulting them with sexist comments.
AA's don't hate Clinton. That's a media fabrication.
People don't vote for VP. It's trite to try and use this argument.
You're not making any sense. First, one state is all that was needed for both Gore and Kerry to lose. The same is true of Obama. And there was an enthusiastic base ready to overthrow the Republicans. Maybe you don't remember the devastation that Dems felt when early in the day, Kerry was leading in the exit polls only to concede at the end of the night.
That's simply not true. I've heard stories about the opposite too.
I NEVER said that Obama voters don't matter. You falsely said that. Please don't throw around wild accusations like that.
And it's not a hypothetical electability argument. I've only used the numbers. There is no personal attachment to either candidate here. However, I can't say the same for you. If Obama could win, I'd support that. But he can't. Hillary can. BTW, how come you don't support the candidate that can win in November? Why the personal attachment to Obama?
Obama REFUSED to have a legitimate contest. So you lose that argument right away.
And Hillary will have the popular vote soon. If not by tomorrow, then by the end of the primaries.
This is due to a false image that the media has been pushing. Besides, Obama supporters will either be crushed now or in November. If it's in November, things will be far worse than losing at the convention. At least Hillary can win in November. What's the logic in selecting a nominee that you know with 100% certainty will lose?
Not true. This is whishful thinking on your part. Most of Clinton's defectors are not even in states she can carry anyways. They are mostly red states.
HAHAHA! So why did Obama lose those states then? You're not making any sense.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's a media fabrication. In fact, the exit polls show the opposite by a large margin. You should stop listening to the media. They are propaganda machines. Nothing more.
I see you don't like pudding.
Not worth a dime.
edit: I wanted to explain why your arguments aren't worth much. It's because your argument is based on pure raw emotions. The truth of the matter is that there exists no map where Obama wins. From what Dean has said, he believes that Obama can carry southern states. Yet, Hillary is polling with near identical numbers as Obama in those states that Dean is talking about. In NC, she's tied with Obama. In VA and SC, she's 3% behind Obama. What does that tell you? At first sight, it might mean that Dems have a good chance in southern states. On second thought, it might mean that Obama's chances to carry southern states are the same as Hillary's (or 3% better). IOW, zip. The dems are going to pin ALL their hopes on winning one or two of VA, NC & SC. None of those states have gone blue in the past 40 years except for NC & SC with Carter in '76. But Carter took all of the South including Texas. I don't see Obama taking Texas.
All I ask from Obama supporters is to show me an electoral map where he wins. I have provided ONE such scenario even though I don't believe he can hold Ohio. Besides, Hillary does better with Obama's map anyhow. Show me a winning map where he wins with more ease than Hillary and I'll put it up.
For me, all I see is candidate X and candidate Y. I don't see names. I see electoral votes. Who wins and who loses. That's it. Everyone needs to put their personal feelings aside and look at the numbers. One of these candidates wins and one of them loses. Personal attachment doesn't win elections. That's why I create these maps in the first place. I wanted to see what the numbers say regardless of other factors.
Anonymous # Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:50:17 PM
Vorlath # Tuesday, May 13, 2008 6:01:02 PM
There's something else that everyone is missing though. Obama and his camp have TOLD Hillary supporters that they're not needed. Donna Brazile has said this many times on CNN. That's the whole point about why I put up those last scenarios. It's political suicide. And Obama's camp keeps on spreading insults and sexist remarks. He's insulting the voters on a personal level. This isn't like in the past where you liked one candidate more than the other and the candidates took hits on each other. In these primaries, Hillary voters are the ones that took the hits. Those kinds of wounds don't heal in a few months. They take years to heal if they ever do. And Obama will have to apologise if he wants to make things better. He's never apologised and never will.
Anonymous # Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:23:40 PM
Anonymous # Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:31:47 PM
KeithBo # Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:45:12 PM
And in contrast, Hillary has been very inclusive. She has not alienated her AA base, it would be easier for her to win them back than Obama winning back the latinos and working class whites.
Anonymous # Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:12:52 PM
Vorlath # Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:11:05 PM
I prefer SurveyUSA. I don't use Zogby at all because they have associations with Obama's campaign. I also discount PPP. Rasmussen always polls lower for Hillary, but I've considered them too. Look at recent polls and you will see that my numbers match.
I wish SUSA did more recent polls out of MN, MI & WI. Those numbers are out of whack. I'd also like better numbers out of Florida. KY has recently gone safe Republican, but I haven't changed anything because Hillary has yet to fully campaign there and I'm not familiar with Research 2000. Numbers always go up after campaigning.
SC, NC & VA are polling higher for dems lately. Unfortunately, Rasmussen polls lower for Hillary for some reason and they don't seem to want to change their polling techniques anytime soon. If other polls reflect this, I'll update it, but Dems still aren't winning these states, so nothing's changed yet. Also, Texas was a toss up in the polls just after campaigning there, so I can't get too caught up in NC and surrounding states being up in the polls at the moment.
I also check this site because they sometimes post polls that are missed elsewhere.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Anonymous # Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:17:37 PM
KeithBo # Wednesday, May 14, 2008 7:00:28 AM
The thesis that the Obama campaign has is that Obama can expand the base by making southern states more competitive. And I actually agree. I think that between Obama and Hillary, Obama would perform better against McCain in some of the southern states due to a bigger AA turnout. The question is, is this enough for him to take these states - not just be competitive. I don't believe that they have made the case for this.
What's clearer is that McCain has put more Democratic states in play against Obama. This means that Obama would have to devote a lot more resources into securing states that are traditionally Democratic. He needs to devote more time in securing his base as opposed to either McCain or Hillary.
All McCain needs to do is to pour his energies into CA, NY, OH, PA and FL to secure a win. He only needs to win 2 of these to win the presidency. Obama OTOH is counting on winning southern states that have never gone Democratic before and whose polling right now has shown no indication that it will ever turn Democratic. This is wishful thinking.
Compared to Obama, Hillary would have no problem keeping these states and securing her base. She has the working class whites, the Latinos, Catholics and women solidly behind her. All she needs to do is secure a win in FL and we will have a Democrat in the Whitehouse in 2009. She can conceivably win MI and turn IL, IN, WI, and AR and this would be a blowout for the Democrats in the general.
Vorlath # Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:36:16 PM
This is something the Republicans have learned a LONG time ago and why some don't feel comfortable with McCain. They need the base, so McCain is doing everything to get conservatives on his side. But Obama is not doing ANYTHING to get the non-AA working class Dems on his side. In fact, he's doing everything to alienate them. He didn't even give a concession speech. Maybe because it'd look bad for the presumptive nominee to give concession speeches, but not giving one looks WAY worse.
I somewhat disagree. I think CA & NY should be used as diversionary tactic only. McCain MUST go for OH, PA & FL. There's no question about that, but there's real secret here. What he should do, and what he is actually doing, is going after WA & OR. It's brilliant! Whoever he has on his side actually knows what they are doing. A win in OR guarantees McCain the White House even if Obama carries all 5 of IA, MI, WI, OH & PA. I'm still baffled that the Dems aren't deeply troubled by this. Imagine carrying all those swing states and still lose!
That's exactly it. You're absolutely right. Why give yourself a tougher time than what is needed? Why go the hard route? Hillary already has the proven route to victory. Obama does not. There's nothing indicating that he can pull this off. Yet Hillary already has the numbers to win it.
Anonymous # Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:36:53 PM
Vorlath # Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:43:38 PM
I'll post a link to my new post soon. I've created a new blog so my regular readers, who don't like politics, don't see it.
Vorlath # Thursday, May 15, 2008 9:52:39 PM
http://my.opera.com/MrPolitics/blog/2008/05/15/obama-numbers-are-tanking
Vorlath # Friday, May 16, 2008 3:44:57 PM
http://my.opera.com/MrPolitics/blog/2008/05/16/new-comparison-using-rasmussen-polls
Anonymous # Sunday, May 25, 2008 5:41:55 PM