Kitty's Corner

I'm glad I live in a country that has freedom of speech too but I'm not sure how free it is.

Would you wear that shirt? I wouldn't.

It's supposed to be like that here also, but I don't think it applies to everyone.

Personally, I find it to be offensive. But that's the thing - what some find offensive, some find funny. People are allowed their differing opinions, and they should always be allowed them.

Hmm. I don't think I'm *personally* offended - although I must say that mocking anybody's beliefs or customs is something that I don't like...of course, blowing people up because they don't believe the same things that you do is pretty nasty too. But then - isn't that what wars are always about?? Trying to stifle comment and criticism is as bad as trying to stifle the belief, I think...

But f*ck no - I wouldn't wear that T shirt *backs away, looking for unattended suitcases...*

It's not mocking beliefs, it's pointing out that some people have really taken the wrong message from their religion. Same as a cartoon about Jesus bombing hospitals for oil.

The part that offends is the religious texts that are used in a vile and unholy way. I wonder if the artist can read those texts in the first place? .
Had he left that out of the drawing, then perhaps the 'controversy' wouldn't have happened. .
Of course, I for one, feel that the world reaction was way over the top. Muslims are taught that nobody can forge the image of the Prophet (saw). So that cannot possibly be a drawing of the Prophet (saw).
.

We live in a free society,
the feeling that one "is a victim" has to be erased from their mind. Society is full of complainers,
African Americans that claim to be treated as no equals,
Jewish that will mention the holocaust in every conversation,
Muslim that will think a cartoon eliminates their principals when they stone women for getting in a car with a co-worker, gay and lesbians that feel they have to kiss in public just because.... oh please give me a break! lets start being productive than being complainers...

Kitty the T-shirt is fugly

I dislike this "tar everyone with the same brush" thing that is so popular, also. To me it's just as bad as the very people who do the extremist things that provoke such stereotypical points of view.

gay and lesbians that feel they have to kiss in public just because

How are two people expressing their love for each other complaining?

Christians used to run Jews through the streets every Christmas and beat them to death and that was kept up for hundreds of years, until the end of the holocaust. A lot of people want to bring those sort of activities back. It's all very well saying people are just complaining but, until you've lived their lives and faced the sort of racism and hypocrisy they've faced every day of their lives, then you can't see what they have to complain about.

African Americans may complain about not being treated equally, and until they're just Americans they're right. Most of them have never been to Africa so why add that definition just because of their skin colour? It's gotten to the point that Americans are calling all black-skinned people African American, even if they've never visited either country (something that almost shut down a forum site I use).

I'm Irish and grew up in the UK in the 80s. As far as people were concerned I'm with the terrorists and should be treated like crap because I'm one of them. Anything that happened to me was laughed off by teachers and police alike simply because I was Irish. They didn't know why I was complaining about broken bones at seven years old when some people with the same accent were blowing things up. The heart of racism has always been "They're all the same".

Mik, I'm so sorry.
Hugs

Originally posted by Furie:

How are two people expressing their love for each other complaining?

not my point,
straight people never dip their tongue in public.
I have many gay friends and I find they are very touchy about "freedom of expression". Every body's freedom stops where somebody else's begins ...

Originally posted by Furie:

Most of them have never been to Africa so why add that definition just because of their skin colour?

for the same reason I am called caucasian, and Chinese/Koreans "Asians". Race and color exists, discrimination should't. Complaining does not erase race, it attracts a negative attention to the race.

Ellinidata - Caucasian is a term for a person of origins in Europe, North Africa and Western Asia who are white skinned. Chinese/Koreans hail from their respective countries which are situated in the continent of Asia. So both terms are correct if used on the correct people.
African-American is used in America on anyone who is black. They assume that any black person has origins in Africa, which is false.

Carol, it happens. People think that because you're similar to someone they've been taught to hate that they have a right to treat you like shit. I survived and can pass on my experience to teach others how their preconceptions are dangerous. My skin colour means that some people are more willing to listen to me than some people who've been through much worse.

I'm straight and regularly kiss my girl in public. We also hold hands and occasionally feel each other's bums. We love each other and can't help it. People think nothing of it. If we were the same gender we'd have people pulling faces, calling names and even throwing things at us. It happens. People are more willing to chain the firedoors of a nightclub and set the place on fire with a couple of hundred people inside rather than accept that two people of the same gender have the same rights to love and express that love as two people of different genders.

As Kim said, Caucasian is an anthropological term. The closest I can find for black people is black. African American is an illogical ethnic designation. The official ethnic designation for white people in America is European American even though the majority of white Americans have never even visited Europe, making it equally illogical so that got swapped out with Caucasian. Preferential treatment for whites yet again. You see now how things like that have been snuck into the general understanding so that racism can continue without people even realising what they're doing and thinking they're just using the correct terms?

The rules in place that designate someone as African American state that anyone who can be traced back to Africa at any point is African American (strangely there's no need to be American according to those rules). The first recognisably human being on the planet (Mitochondrial Eve) was discovered in Africa meaning we can all trace ourselves back to Africa and earn an African designation in our ethnicity if you go back far enough.

Mik, I just think it's sad that people have to hurt others.
Just like the stupid goverment back during the war they put Americans that were of Japanese origin in camps. Why I will never understand. Yes I know what their reasoning was but doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Spaggyj:

African-American is used in America on anyone who is black.

African Americans,
American Indians,
Greek Americans,
Irish Americans...


in my books we all are members of the human race,
when you use a term but you don't descriminate with actions ,
a term that is used for centuries is not the one tha hurts feelings.

Are African American origins from Africa, yes they are like the rest of us.
It all began in Africa.

I used the term caucasian on myself becasue I was born and raised in Europe.

Originally posted by Furie:

(strangely there's no need to be American according to those rules).

Huh ????????????? since when did this happen?

Originally posted by Furie:

(strangely there's no need to be American according to those rules).

Huh ????????????? since when did this happen?

American Indians are called Native Americans.

Angeliki, Mik means that there are rules to be called African Americans, one rule being that anyone who can be traced back to Africa at any point is African American but no rule about being an American.

The terms were set up assuming they were talking about Americans as they were classifying Americans. Even though the majority of black people in the world have been born in America in the last two hundred or so years, they get classified as African American and not just American. You'd think African American would be saved someone who moved from Africa to America and American would be anyone born there. Why should skin colour count at all when we look at people's nationality? A white person who moves from Africa to America is never designated that way.

I wasn't aware of that Carol. I do know that German families that lived in Poland were subjected to ethnic cleansing after the second world war, yet it's one of those things that no-one ever talks about. It's always about how bad the Germans treated people and how monstrous their prison camps were. History is written by the winners every time.

thank you Carol,
I do appreciate your comment very much.


I still believe people that are touchy about small things are the ones that create the problems.

I treat my neighbors and friends the same
no matter what their background is.

Freedom of speach should be in every single corner of the world.

We did start with a t-shirt and a caroon and ended up with race and origins but I feel we are all having good intentions and if there is one thing that we appreciate ,
are the comments on posts that allow us to express our beliefs.

I did comment in the previous posts regarding the caroons the same way and I will contiue saying the same thing,

"it is a cartoon,
who doesn't like it ,
do not buy it as a poster of a t-shirt."

my freedom of speech should be eliminated because somebody else feels like being "touchy" .

If African American is used to describe someone whose ancestry is Jamaican, though... It's not that I find it offensive so much as I find it... Incorrect.
My blonde haired, pale skinned and blue eyed family's ancestry goes back to Viking times - Norwegian. But I'm not classed that way.
I don't think it's at all right to ignore cultural differences and pretend we're all identical. We're not, and I celebrate this. I enjoy learning about other cultures, but there needs to be balance. Everyone is equal, this is correct - nobody is a lesser person because of their origin. But peoples origins should not be ignored, either, in my opinion.

I don't think anyone here is being "touchy". I think we're all arguing semantics, expressing and elaborating upon our own personal opinions. These kinds of discussions are interesting to glimpse another point of view, I don't think anyone is trying to get at another person.

Mik here's a link for you. Internment camps

Thank you Angeliki. I know alot of people that are touchy here if you call them Indians.

I just call people human. Their race isn't important to me. I know alot of people are proud of their race and that's fine. I just don't call people by labels.

When I describe my friends to Gran, I give their names and their countries. I find it amazing that my friends are all over the world

The way the muslim doctrine is set up the cartoon cannot actually be offensive to people who truly believe the muslim faith. As Aadil said, true Muslims believe that no-one can portray the image of the prophet. As the cartoon is pointing out the absurdity of those that preach peace yet act violently, it applies to all faiths equally and is actually more insulting to Christians than any other faiths as they have the bloodiest history of all current faiths.

As with all religions there will be someone who reads their own ill-educated insults into this and, unfortunately, these people tend to be in positions of power, whipping up those that trust and respect them into vengeful frenzies. As has happened countless times throughout history, something has been seen as threatening to a certain faith by a few who don't fully follow that faith, and those few have backed events that the faith preaches against (a similar thing happened with Christians when the printing press was invented). No true Muslim was involved in the bombing of embassies or any of the violence that has been committed in the name of this cartoon.

I don't see anyone threatening your freedom of speech by the way. All I'm trying to do is educate you and give you an alternative point of view to consider things from - the greatest gift anyone can give and the reason most of us are here. It usually takes someone else to point these things out but, when you realise that you're making definitive statements about entire groups of people, you see how these things have seeped into your worldview without you noticing it or realising how other's freedoms are being affected by them. You said in your earlier comment that you wanted to start being productive rather than complain so I assumed you'd be open to learning these things.

Originally posted by Spaggyj:

I don't think anyone here is being "touchy". I think we're all arguing semantics, expressing and elaborating upon our own personal opinions. These kinds of discussions are interesting to glimpse another point of view, I don't think anyone is trying to get at another person.

I couldn't agree more !

Originally posted by Spaggyj:

My blonde haired, pale skinned and blue eyed family's ancestry goes back to Viking times - Norwegian. But I'm not classed that way.

hmmmmmm characteristics ......... I am a woman with green eyes and black hair,
I am often confused to be Jewish,
I am also aked how was my vacation in Israel... I simply say "great" .
Do i care if I am called Greek or not? not the least. My character was what it was when I was growing up in Greece ,
and it is the same now that i live in New York City.
What I am saying is,
The measure of my character has no country,
color,or religion.
My love for freedom of speech, peace,compassion and protection of kids ,
it will be always the same no matter where I am classified by others

Jesus Christ! That's awful, Carol. I had no idea things had gone that far. Thanks for the information, I'll be sure to read up some more on that.

Well, to tell the truth, I dye my hair black-purple and as I have grown into an adult, my eyes have taken on a strange quality so I'm no longer classed as a Viking . I have seen your picture, you do not look so Jewish to me . I didn't know you lived in New York!
Yes, I agree with your viewpoint. Kindness and good character are universal. A person's origins do not define their personality - and I think we can all agree on this.

We live in a great age - we can converse with people all over the world as easily as we can with our next door neighbour. In fact, we can communicate with others more easily these days. I love it and feel awful whenever I hear of a country blocking or firewalling the internet. I love seeing other points of views and I'll be here educating myself about the world for a long time.

Originally posted by Spaggyj:

Kindness and good character are universal. A person's origins do not define their personality - and I think we can all agree on this

Tils is gonna go apeshit when she gets back to all these pretty large comments.

I assume that smiley is a positive one - animations don't move on Opera Mini and it's just frozen looking rather confused

hahaha yes, it is a positive one, it is a hug

You are welcome Mik.

Originally posted by Carol:

I just call people human. Their race isn't important to me. I know alot of people are proud of their race and that's fine. I just don't call people by labels

Originally posted by Kimmie:

Kindness and good character are universal. A person's origins do not define their personality

Originally posted by Pussy Cat:

We can always find something to be offended about, that's not a problem at all. To me, the point is being tolerant

Thank you for your words of wisdom and sanity.

Originally posted by Mik:

Tils is gonna go apeshit

No - she'll be proud that you all are here and responding like this - we are all over the world and we are participating in ONE person's blog - how many others are there out there like this...the more we all speak up and listen, the better it's got to be, right??

@ Ellinidata - ah. Thanks for explaining .

@ Carol - meant to say earlier, I can't believe I didn't know about that stuff. .

@ Sir Rinse - can't use quote function, but what you say is a damn good point. Speaking your mind sensibly does matter

Kimmie

Well said that pink bird washer.

It's wonderfull that much of what I would have said has already been said. .

:O

I don't think that those cartoons should have been stopped, but they were bad manners, a lack of respect. Just because one can do something doesn't mean that one should.

Mik, people do talk about it, if you look in the right places. I have a huge catalogue of such behaviour in my head. It's the norm, I'm afraid. Any difference will get you into trouble. I've gotten hit for having the wrong accent in Dublin a few times, including two solid years of abuse from a teacher, a year of it violent, back when they could hit students. I disguised my accent for a long time. (It's too posh). We have a strange laissez faire attitude, expecting kids to look after themselves in school, and then suddenly become responsible members of society when they hit eighteen.

My irish accent only comes out occasionally due to changing it all those years ago. Typically I'd finally gotten rid of it when girls decided it was a sexy accent. When I do slip into it occasionally it sounds fake these days.

It'll come back fast if you hang around the natives for a while.

Gah! I'm so tired of religion. Or the fanatic interepreters of religion, rather...