Rainbow Viewers for Virtual Worlds

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Cessation of Henri Beauchamp's "Cool SL Viewer" for Windows

Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:59:50 AM

[Anonymous comments are disabled until further notice. Sorry about that.]

Dear All,

I'm partly sad to announce that I decided to officially discontinue support for Henri Beauchamp's "Cool SL Viewer". To be very frank, we had in the past months repeated issues about the naming of the viewer that today culminated in this decision.

Linden Lab has a clear policy that regulates the usage of their trademarks and particularly "SL" and "Secondlife". Exact details can be found at http://secondlife.com/corporate/brand/trademark/sl_insl.php , but to keep it simple, the core information is "Your SL Associated Name must use "SL" or "inSL" (but not both) [...] in combination with a name that uses at least two generic nouns. A "generic noun" is a common noun and not a proper noun, trademark or brand name.". LL further states that usage of specific terms and combinations is NOT permitted such as "SL Viewer Software".

To quote Jacek Antonelli: '"Viewer" is a generic noun, but "Cool" is an adjective, so "Cool SL Viewer" is NOT "perfectly legit"'. Yes, that's Legalese.

A simple thing, better be safe than sorry. Along with most other creators of 3rd party viewers I've decided a long time ago to remove references to "SL" and "Secondlife" from the viewer and it's name. Henri however kept insisting that I would have to use the name "Cool SL Viewer" if I want compile and distribute "his" viewer for Windows (which I do in fact for 1 1/2 years now).

By distributing a LL licensed viewer I carry the full legal responsibility for it. I'm not willing to take a risk by violating LL's trademarks and bring myself into a potential situation of legal consequences for trademark infringement.

I've tried repeatedly over a long period of time to explain the issue to Henri. Unfortunately the only reaction from him was to accuse me of trying to steal his work and claim it for myself. The latest was to accuse me of "re-branding" the viewer and make it looking like my own creation. Something I never did, all who know me know that I've done rather the opposite and tried to protect his work. And where the heck is "Cool Viewer" a re-branding?!

I am not willing to be forced to violate trademarks by continuing to build an otherwise GPLed viewer because the author thinks the 0.01% of code he contributed gives him the right to do so. Unfortunately Henri gave me no other choice, I've took the consequences today and pulled the plug out of my Windows builds for all that is related to the name "Cool SL Viewer".

I will continue to build viewers based on the GPLed code and I will continue to use the name "Cool Viewer" if the viewer is mainly based on Henri's otherwise great work and contributions. That is *NOT* to claim any of his work for myself by re-branding it to something else it is not. I have never done this and this will not change.

I thank Henri for all the support he has given me in the past and for the fantastic resulting viewer for all of us. Sadly this chapter has to end here, but there is no legal alternative.

Boy

Cool Viewers 1.22 / 1.19 with RLV 1.17Rainbow Viewer 1.23

Comments

Anonymous Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:46:11 PM

Barney Yates writes: Seems to me you are doing the right thing. Too bad Henri has a different view. Keep up the good work!

Anonymous Sunday, May 31, 2009 1:42:33 PM

Sutekh writes: Henri needs to stop act all high and might and grow up. Boy Lane your doing the right thing.. pity it has to end like this.. i liked the viewer as it was 'cause i hate the LL "vanilla" client... ah well i guess that's what you get when people become "holier then thou" larger then life and think THEIR point of view is the ONLY point of view.

Anonymous Sunday, May 31, 2009 1:49:48 PM

Anonymous writes: Does this mean there will be no more windows viewers from you? No more updates for Cool Viewer? What about Rainbow Viewer? Is that affected as well?

Boy Laneboylane Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:36:07 PM

It's all said in the main posting smile

Anonymous Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:05:09 PM

TigroSpottystripes Katsu writes: two generic words to make it legal? how about "Cool SL Viewer Client Thing"? (I threw in an extra generic word just to be safe)

Boy Laneboylane Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:13:16 PM

That are Linden rules, not mine, not Henri's. Unlike Henri I am in a country that has pretty strict laws and it has a local LL office or call it legal presence here. I simply don't play my luck. And I took the consequences.

Anonymous Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:22:27 PM

Tylendel writes: It sounds very uptight to me, both from Linden Labs and the "Cool SL Viewer" side. Lately the lindens seem to send a lot of mixed signals (Zyngo is ok, but Blackjack which takes a lot more skill and a lot less luck, isn't). I think everyone needs to lighten up. The control-freakery just drives people away. Good luck, Boylane :)

Anonymous Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:00:11 PM

Anonymous writes: just call it the 'chilly viewer', 'chillout client' :)

Anonymous Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:10:11 PM

Sascha writes: I really can't understand all that fuss. It's GPL, isn't it? Just rename it, who cares, just mention it is similar to Cool SL viewer. And if you see it like Trademark infringement, yes, Henry violates it many times, just look at his web page. So just rename it and calm down. Is enough that most good people stop doing things in SL, like Nicholaz, Dari,... and now you. I really don't feel like compiling this myself. Thanks for this 'cool' work.

Anonymous Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:02:41 PM

Anonymous writes: and so here is another reason why so many people are pissed off by LL, SL and all the trend to be seen at the moment. SL-freedom of spirit gets smaller day by day, the SL economics get burned down with help of SL. only so called "moral" and bullshit grows. The morons took over the crown. Fun and lightness, where have you gone? funny aside: the "spam blocker picture" containing the letters to type in to post the comment reads "littered client" hahaha :-D

Anonymous Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:11:39 PM

Chloe writes: Boy, You have done a wonderful job, over the 18 months, of building Henri's viewer for the vast majority of people he chooses not to support. I thank you for all your work and am saddened that it cannot continue, but you are right to protect yourself. It's disappointing that Henri is so intransigent, but that is his fault and not yours. I cannot begin to say how grateful I am, but... I am truly so. I guess he believes that Windows users should not be allowed to use his work! Thank you

CindyCD42Fairey Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:19:36 PM

Perhaps this Windows user will in fact stop using his work. As in all in world Cool Products.

I do not relish the idea of having to learn to build this all myself to avoid having to use the annoying official release.

Perhaps with enough gentle nudges Henry can be convinced to see the error of his ways.

Boy Lane - thank you so much for all the hard work. I hope you find a way to continue in some form if you're willing to do so. SL needs more folks like you.

AlecDaniels Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:29:16 PM

You did great work Boylane, it sucks that Henri went all crazy and paranoid on you.
On a side note, I wonder if it is just "No windoze uzers" or something. A good number of Linux users think anything opensource shouldn't be used on something like Windows.

But it sounds like you're going to be doing your own viewer then not really based on Henri's?

Anonymous Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:07:55 PM

Inara Pey writes: Boy, First off: a sincere thanks to you (again) for taking a good product like Henri's and bringing it to the Windows environment so that so many more of us can enjoy its benefits. It is both understandable and a shame that Linden Lab have tightened up tradmarks, usage and branding over the last 18 months. On the one hand, one cannot blame them, on the other some of the changes seem a little draconian. BUT - be that as it may, they can set the rules and you - and others - have no option but to abide by their rules. No-one can or should fault you for that. You've always had my support for the work you do, and you continue to have it; it's the least I can offer in return for all of your hard work and effort. Here's to the continuance of a good, solid product - and the underlying acknowledgment of all those concerned in its creation!

Anonymous Monday, June 1, 2009 12:50:26 AM

TomasG writes: Just a note. No matter what they say, Linden Lab cannot have exclusive use of the "SL" mark. There a about 50 registered trademaks that use "SL". A number of them have been abandoned and are dead, but there are still a significant number that are still live. That being said, I can understand your not wanting the legal hassle and expense that LL could cause even if they likely would lose.

Boy Laneboylane Monday, June 1, 2009 3:14:11 AM

Thanks for all you comments. But there's nothing really to worry about for now. What this all means is basically I am no longer making viewers for Henri. He tried to force things on me in the past, he tried it again now and it is over. He can build his own viewer for "Windoze" which he hates so much he can not even spell it properly.

Cool Viewer and Rainbow Viewer will continue to exist. Just as a fork and not as a 1:1 "compilation" CV never was anyway and without support from him. I'm not changing the name as that would exactly be what he accuses me for, "re-branding". He threatened to start a dirt campaignn if I do this but he has no exclusive rights on the generic adjective "cool" smile. So all is good.

Anonymous Monday, June 1, 2009 3:28:03 AM

Anonymous writes: Oh good **** (sorry can't use religious iconic words, would get censored eventually), LL need to quit flaunting their e-peens and actually work on the product and community that has been loyal.. before we all go to another game. We will. Look at other games and their eventual death.. its almost always a power complex. Reasons keep piling up for us to leave, its pretty much unstoppable once a game has been deemed obsolete. Its like the final feather on top of a mountain that is about to avalanche. Then the creators stop getting monies. (those green things you floss with, LL) Society needs to quit playing ridiculous name games.. What is LL, Victorian? Good luck with that.. it didn't end up great last time. I wish people would grow a spine and defend developers like Boy Lane... they give alot for free. Theres already a movement among creators to punish those who give services for free because "its not fair". However, there is another windows project, Emerald Life, which I think would benefit from your work, Boy Lane. Would it be possible for you to switch to this project and get it to run faster, etc? It has some nice features.. and they are going to add RL support soon enough. If you team up on this viewer whose namesake is within legal standards... a leviathan of sorts could be built of two titans. With both viewers interesting features, and your incredible bug stomping and optimization, you could create something that makes the default viewer look like even more of a joke. Either way, thanks.

Anonymous Monday, June 1, 2009 3:41:07 AM

Anonymous writes: Thank you for all you r hard work in the past. I'm sorry to hear that Henri was so determined to keep the name that he refused to let it be changed... it does no good to be recognised for your name if everyone dislikes you. :-\ Will you still be posting your viewers here, or in another place?

Anonymous Monday, June 1, 2009 4:01:23 AM

Atriel Starbrook writes: As I've always said.. THANK YOU for the great viewer... and I agree you're doing the right thing (From what I can understand). However for those of us who really have no clue who Henri is (sorry Henri..), exactly what does this mean for Cool Viewer? It sounds like a Windows version will still be compiled.. but you'll no longer include code Henri created or has rights to... does that mean certain features will be removed? or are we talking about some bug fixes that you'll simply code around differently? I don't know much about all the different viewers out there... but I know I like Cool Viewer and will continue to use it as long as I can. Atriel Starbrook

Boy Laneboylane Monday, June 1, 2009 4:11:06 AM

This is only about a name change, not about code. Henri insists if I want to use his exact code 1:1, that is sources that are identical to his Linux version, I have to use the name "Cool SL Viewer". As this is not permitted due to the SL trademarks I can not make a viewer with this name.

However the code is not identical anyway to his Linux viewer as there are a number of changes with additional and excluded patches. It is all fully GPL and everybody can use it.

Anonymous Monday, June 1, 2009 8:07:51 PM

Giant Maelstrom writes: Boy you do what you need to do, good to see you will still have a Windows viewer, it's the only one I will ever use. I take issue with people who swear up and down that their OS or platform is the best there is. I say to each his own, in my case, over the years (including many spent LAN gaming) I have collected over 150 PC games (obviously can't play them all) so I am a Windows guy. As to the "Cool SL Viewer" bit, I was always wondering why yours was named slightly different but never thought to ask. Press on boy, you have your happy Windoze (haha) users backing you up.

CaptJosh Monday, June 1, 2009 9:45:26 PM

Unfortunately, Henri is lending credence to the stereotype of the arrogant Frenchman. It is most unfortunate that he has chosen to behave in this horridly childish manner. I'm sorry it has come to this for you Boy. In light of the facts, however, I think you've made the right choice. Henri is being an ass.

TrasheVyper Tuesday, June 2, 2009 9:10:58 AM

sad news but i trust you Boy if you need beta testing you know i am available almost anytime!

Anonymous Tuesday, June 2, 2009 6:38:27 PM

Ayesha askham writes: A big, heart-felt thankyou to Boy for so much hard work in giving twits like me a product the not only could I use, but could even sort out when not playing with my ATi (spit) graphics card. The captcha "advertised teardrop" seems appropriate too. This whole LL/SL control-freakery political-correctness idiocy is going to have to stop somewher, or SL will surely fail. I'm heartened by the fact that you will continue to build something that I can use. Once angain, Boy, thanks, and Henri - GROW UP!

Boy Laneboylane Wednesday, June 3, 2009 3:21:18 AM

Here's the latest from Henri smile
"The only genuine Windows builds of the Cool SL Viewer will from now on be released on this site. Boy Lane does not have my permission anymore to release renamed viewers using the same set of patches as the Cool SL Viewer."
http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81

He is really COOL and now even assumes ownership of GPL *LOL*.

Anonymous Wednesday, June 3, 2009 5:57:10 AM

Aden Davids writes: If he's got the trademark for "Cool SL Viewer" he can object to that, but according to LL "Note that the GNU GPL is a reciprocal license, meaning that if you use portions of the Second Life Viewer to create a new derivative work, that work must also be licensed under the GPL." So the Cool SL Viewer patches must be GPL'd...right? Am I missing something here?

CindyCD42Fairey Wednesday, June 3, 2009 6:52:16 AM

After his little remark in the CoolProducts group in world, I dumped it. CoolProducts don't seem so cool any more somehow. smile

Keep up those nasty "unauthorized" works, Boy.

Anonymous Wednesday, June 3, 2009 7:04:57 AM

Jacek Antonelli writes: @Aden: It gets better. All the patches Henri uses are definitely GPLed, _plus_ Henri didn't even _create_ all of them himself. Many of them were written by other people (not even considering the 99.99% of the code that Linden Lab wrote), and he is only able to use them in the first place because they are GPLed. Now he seems to be claiming he has copyright over a _particular selection_ of patches to the SL viewer, which is just absurd. In the end, it's all just a childish and irrational response to not getting his way. He's trying to feel in control, but he's just not choosing a very healthy way to do it.

Anonymous Wednesday, June 3, 2009 7:28:10 AM

Henri Beauchamp writes: You guys can badmouth me and keep up the childish insults if it floats your boats, but FACT is that a software being GPL does not mean its author does not own the copyright. Publishing the same software (Boy DID use the exact same set of patches, but for three patches that were specific to Linux: see by yourself with a diff on the respective sources if you don't believe me) under another name and claiming it's yours is called plagiarism ! If you think it's not, then give me a *single* example of an Open Source software published under two names without one being an actual *fork* of the other. Boy does not like the way I run things ? It's her right. But then she must not continue to publish *my* software under another name and claim it's her work. Boy Lane is just a builder (a talented one), NOT a coder. She did not even contribute a single patch she would have written (i.e. actually coded) all by herself. Her work has been great (and saved me a lot of time), but it's way out of proportion when compared to the *hard* work I did and keep doing on the viewers (minimum two branches, often three, with up and back porting of every patch: more than 100 different patches, 33 of which from me plus 8 I contributed to significantly, plus 12 backports from Linden Lab's improvements to newer viewers). Yes, the Cool SL Viewer is my cherished baby: ask this question to yourself in all honesty: what would be your reaction if someone were starting to introduce *your* baby under another name to strangers (I have seen this happening in several forums, where Boy even pissed off the forum members with her way to claim the "Cool Viewer" was the best of the best), claiming how beautiful the child is, and not even saying it's your baby (thus making believe they are the actual parents) ? Yes, I am a cool guy, but only so long as nobody steps on my toes... In fact, I should have done this much earlier since it would have meant much less fuss. But I let Boy her chance, more than one time actually. I asked her kindly, several times: she could have said: "OK, you're threading waters where I don't want to follow you and must step down from my builder position" if the "trademark" pretext was actually true. But no. Instead she says: "I'm not officially your builder, but I will steal your software and just do as I want". Who's the un-cool person ?... If you want to keep up the insults, then go on and be happy, for it's my last message on this blog.

Boy Laneboylane Wednesday, June 3, 2009 7:58:07 AM

Henri, what you posted here are outright lies. Nothing else.

Lie no. 1) You did not diff my sources as you claimed, otherwise you would have seen that the OpenGL patch is not in the main source tree but separate. You have no clue what is in the code.

Lie no. 2) I did not rename your viewer, I rather did you and me a favour by removing a trademark you don't own but abuse. To remind you, that is called trademark infringement and a punishable offense.

Lie no. 3) I never claimed I made Cool Viewer. I never introduced it under another name anywhere. Credits were always and ever given. Not only to you but to all code contributors. Read about the release notes below.

Lie no. 4) Your code is a derivative of GPLed sources that could never exist on it's own. You are the one stealing the work of others and claim it is yours and by not giving any credits. Look in the downloads you provide. Not a single credit is given. Nothing. Zilch. (oh sorry, you mention Marine)

Lie no. 5) Henri, I stopped supporting your continued trademark violations and I told you to find someone else to build the Windows viewer for you. Unless you mean something completely different there is nothing you could have done earlier; besides stopping to violate Linden Lab's trademarks in the viewer and on your website but you seem to be keen to continue with this.

Lie no. 6) You explicitly quote me in having said "I'm not officially your builder, but I will steal your software and just do as I want". Please provide the source for this quote.


You, Henri on the other hand have a history of claiming things for yourself just as you do with the "SL" and "SecondLife" trademarks or the GPLed code. Do I need to remind you that you once accused Darien she would have stolen your collar design and scripts? Now you try the same here by accusing me I would have stolen "your" code. It's just ridiculous.

You can continue to violate others rights and trademarks, but don't try to entice people to help you with that. It doesn't matter if you love or hate Linden Lab, what matters is they own the trademark. But you don't own GPL! Sooner or later someone will get into your path and hopefully stop you. And that you think the universe rotates around yourself will certainly not help you.


For all Cool Viewer users, there's nothing really to worry. I will continue to make Cool Viewers with the patches from the many contributors available, including Henri. As in the past full credit is and was always given, you can simply have a look in the always in my viewers included releasenotes.txt. That's BTW something Henri also always forgets in his builds, to give credits to the 99.99% of code created by others he used; there are no release notes included anywhere.

I will of course continue to use the exact same name "Cool Viewer". That means and underlines I do not and never had the intention to re-brand it or claim any of the work for myself.

Enough said smile. More lies will be deleted.

Anonymous Wednesday, June 3, 2009 9:08:47 AM

Anonymous writes: Hey GUYS, calm down :) The Lab cant claim the two letter combination "SL" exclusively worldwide unless they have registred it as trademark in every sigle country all over, which I doubt highly they have done. This reminds all too much about the firefox/iceweasel war with the debian folks btw. (You might want to look at the branding issues in that one). With code released under some GPL licence you are free to use it, reuse it and derive from it as long as you release your work under the same license and give the original creators proper credits for their work. You can not "make your own product" without referrals to the original creators as that's a licence infringement. If you do a 1:1 complilation, then it's the same product as the original one and should have the same exact name. If you change a few things you should "rebrand" it or at least give a clear indication that it is a fork or else you put the users in a pain when they try to update or tweak the source themselves. There is nothing as irritating as two different programs named the same! So continue to build your viewers, based on whatever code and patches you like, but don't use the "Cool SL Viewer" name for yours. It's that easy really and that makes everyone happy. I vote for a similar solution as in the Firefox/Iceweasel combat. Make your's the "Cheeky viewer" (as example) and you're safe in all aspects :) Just another L$0.02 of thoughts and a case closed?

Boy Laneboylane Wednesday, June 3, 2009 9:16:27 AM

@Anonymous

I am in a country that has a LL office, that is a legal presence. And I do not risk legal consequences by helping someone who obviously thinks he is save in his environment to violate trademarks. I've told this Henri for many months. Result? Zero. You don't only need to look at the viewer, look at his website to understand he is openly provocative.

Yes, I've removed SL from the name, and I changed the code to build a CoolViewer.exe instead of SecondLife.exe. I also changed the logos, names in the code and many other things not to come into conflict with LL. If Henri sees that as re-branding, be it so. I honestly don't care anymore. It's his "Cool SL Viewer" and my fork "Cool Viewer" now. No further issues smile.

Satomi AhnSatomiAhn Wednesday, June 3, 2009 11:55:40 AM

Hello, first comment of mine here on this blog^^.

Maybe a stupid question, but now that you're no more Henri's "official" builder, why don't you use a really new name?

Although you technically have the right to use "Cool Viewer" (Henri did not register his trademark), it doesn't seem really right to do so (and it seems Henri is already quite pissed off, no need to add more!) and it is quite confusing for the user.

Moreover, well, Cool Viewer is now the same patch set as Cool SL Viewer, but it is likely you will want to make different choices than Henri in the future.
You already have your own Rainbow Viewer, why not, for instance, add some options in the Rainbow one's preferences to make it able to mimic Cool 'SL' Viewer behavior, and completely drop the name "Cool"?
(now the irony is if you do so, you will need your own "cooks" for the Linux and Mac versions!)

Other topic. It seems both Henri and you are erroneously arguing about credit, when you both credit everyone who should be credited as you should. Same for GPL quibbles. It doesn't look anyone is violating the license right now (the issue with RLV patch aside... but you already know how much I think Henri and Marine are delusional about this!).
Those sub-arguments pollute the only objective issue: viewer names and trademarks, and subjective one: the fame everyone should deserve or not. Henri has a point when he complains about the fact so many people believe CV is your baby... but then insisting on the "SL" part won't fix this issue...

Last but not least, thank you all for your hard work.
Boy, despite the fact I use the Linux version^^.
Henri, despite how much it seems we are bound to disagree on everything.
Oh and well, thank you Hyang too, despite your silence :-p.

Boy Laneboylane Wednesday, June 3, 2009 12:15:06 PM

@Satomi
Thanks, I agree with you. Names should differentiate viewers. Cool Viewer was never the exactly same as Cool SL Viewer, although Henri tried several times to force me to. In fact it was a fork for most of it's existence, but still pretty close to the original. A number of changes from Cool Viewer made it into Cool SL Viewer, such as the Worn inventory tab or recently the Avatar UUID (read: I don't claim to have invented these features, but so did Henri not invent most of his patches). So this was never a one way road.

Now Henri started to accuse me of "re-branding" the viewer which I never did and never intended. Changing the name to something else however would be exactly that. I'm not going down that road. Cool Viewer is and will stay Cool Viewer and close to Henri's version.

I will surely focus more on Rainbow Viewer together with Balp. Looking at the download numbers that seems to be the direction to put more energy in. But I personally prefer the legacy UI as many others. The other direction to look into is RLVa which does not carry the restrictive licensing as Marine's RLV. So there are a number of things slowly boiling in the backyard, the current episode will be laughed about soon I think smile

P.S. It's not possible to register generic terms such as "Cool" as trademarks wink

Innula Wednesday, June 3, 2009 12:56:42 PM

I'm a bit confused; had Linden Labs actually complained to you or Henri about what you fear is an infringement of their trademark? They can hardly be unaware, after all, of the viewer's existence since it's listed in the wiki.



Boy Laneboylane Wednesday, June 3, 2009 1:04:58 PM

@Innula
To put it in an analogy, that question is like "Did the store owner see you when you stole the chocolate bar?" smile

It doesn't make it right to violate trademarks or to steal chocolate bars just because the owner doesn't realize it in the moment it happens.

Satomi AhnSatomiAhn Wednesday, June 3, 2009 1:06:01 PM

Oh it seems every major actor is now aware of RLVa ^^ *g*.
For my part I can't wait for it to become mainstream ;-).
/me pokes the first concerned (if she reads this post) and hides.

And sure a RLVa Rainbow viewer would be great.
So would be a RLVa Greenlife Emerald (I tried and patched it successfully) and a RLVa Imprudence (not as successful: no reaction to RLV commands).

Boy Laneboylane Wednesday, June 3, 2009 1:23:04 PM

Hmmm...Jacek just tried that last days to get it into Imprudence and I think she was successful. You can volunteer to help test it hehe p.

What is missing are the Windlight settings. That is a major drawback for non-BDSM usage like Machinima.

yartelling Wednesday, June 3, 2009 1:34:38 PM

Her is a Idea for you both boy.and Henri. Get OVER IT. move on with life. both your viewers rock.dont make it a dam viewer war.just have fun with it as I am sure you have had so far smile

Boy Laneboylane Wednesday, June 3, 2009 1:42:13 PM

@Yar
No worries, business as usual here. Henri can not prevent me from using GPL code smile. What he does on his end is completely up to him and I'm not interested anymore or do I care after he banned me from his website.

Innula Wednesday, June 3, 2009 1:42:32 PM

No, Boy; your analogy isn't particularly apt, I fear, since ""Did the store owner see you when you stole the chocolate bar?" rather assumes it's theft in the first place.

All I am asking is whether, in fact, Linden Labs have actually expressed any concerns to you or Henri about a possible infringement of their trade mark.

If they haven't, they may, of course, change their minds tomorrow and ask Henri to change what he calls his viewer. And you may well be very prudent to take preemptive action in case they do decide, at some point in the future, to object.

It's a simple question, though: is it the case that they haven't actually complained to you or him so far about the nomenclature of a viewer that's listed in their own wiki?

Boy Laneboylane Wednesday, June 3, 2009 1:45:57 PM

@Innula
No, LL has not complained to me. I however decided not to take the risk of violating trademarks. And their (LL's) website is crystal clear about usage of "SL" and "SecondLife" and the "Eye-in-Hand" logo, all that are violated by Henri's "Cool SL Viewer" as well as by his website.

Nicholaz BeresfordNicholazBeresford Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:31:15 AM

BL,

I would second the suggestion from someone else above that if you do a fork (i.e. not being Henri's 'official' Windows builder anymore) you should choose a substantially different name, if for no other reason than to just avoid confusion with the users and to outwardly reflect the fact that you're following your own direction now.

Call it the 'BoyLane Edition' of CoolViewer or 'Cool Lane to Visual Worlds' or stick with Rainbow (I really like that one) making them 'Rainbow Fresh' and 'Rainbow OldSchool (based on CoolViewer)' or something.


Nick

Boy Laneboylane Thursday, June 4, 2009 12:00:12 PM

Hi Nick, yes, I certainly agree. It's just that silly accusation that I would exactly do that to claim it would be my own work which I never did. But as I wrote CV was never the same as Henri's viewer, he even took changes from CV into his viewer.

In the end it's nothing but a nasty fight about exactly that, nothing smile. I'm not interested nor do I have the time for such childish crap.

Nice to see you here BTW wink.

DJane Lokke VandeverreLokke Thursday, June 4, 2009 2:40:58 PM

Yes a great suggestion .. my vote for Rainbow Viewer :-)

Nicholaz BeresfordNicholazBeresford Thursday, June 4, 2009 4:01:21 PM


I think it simply boils down to different views of 'how things are'. Personally I don't believe in the reality of 'how things are' anyway, just in 'how things are seen' and the way I see it, you and Henri see things differently which makes it hard to continue like it was.

So in the end, after a few nights sleep, I guess both you and Henri will agree to disagree which is how most forks are started anyway. I.e. if I didn't disagree with how the Lindens do their work, even if I could partly understand it, there would never have been a Nicholaz edition.

You're both doing awesome work in your own field ... and life will go on.

Satomi AhnSatomiAhn Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:29:28 PM

@Boy: anyway Henri is not happy with the name "Cool Viewer", so if you completely change the name I don't believe it would really matter anymore to him.

And Nicholaz is right, what matters is how you *see* your viewer. Do you still see it as a "Windoze" version of Cool *SL* Viewer?
If you did, I believe you would be wrong: what use in having 2 almost identical Windows C(SL)V? (as Henri is now proposing one)
Therefore you have to see it as something different, hence use a different name.

Anyway, sorry for stepping in and trying to tell you what you should do! I hope I make sense, though!

Boy Laneboylane Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:35:44 PM

You guys are good and I thank you for giving ideas and feedback smile. I don't want any more drama out of this bullshit.

Henri did a great job with his contribution to the code we have available now. So did many others. And I think it is only in the interest of all to stick to some common sense.

jykitty Friday, June 5, 2009 5:16:07 PM

hi boy teh jykitty here... just thought id stop by and say your doing a great job with cool viewer... ever since i first got it i have been unable to return to the LL default client or run any of the other windows open source clients for that matter... keep up the great work and know that some of us will keep using your client as long we can.

TrasheVyper Saturday, June 6, 2009 6:36:05 AM

to be honest i think Boylane is completly right...now if the viewer stays as "coolviewer" or "rainbow" or take a name
"ultra.awesome.mighty.incredible.better.than.hulk viewer"
i will stick with it ... Boy was always close to the people
and because she add this code on the viewer i can play like a human beeing on my radeon 4830 with playable framerates ...i was there when she add it ...i was testing to help the best i could ... and she did numerus build to find proper combination ..>>>>>>AND SHE NEVER CLAIMED IT IS HER WORK...SHE ALWAYS KEEP SAYING WHAT CODE SHE USED AND WHO MADE IT.<<<<<

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