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Good sense out the window again

A friend of ours from Salt Springs, Florida stopped by yesterday to pick up some tools and was mentioning that his neighbor had passed away. I don't think I ever met the gentleman and was surprised that he wanted to tell me about it. After he did, I understood why. He was outraged and was quite right to be so.

The man was helping a neighbor to fix his swimming pool. He stood up, felt lightheaded and sat down. The moment he reached the chair, he died. That was between 3pm and 4pm.

This is a very close knit neighborhood. Everyone helps everyone else and there is such a great feeling amongst people there that such an occurance affects everyone deeply.

The police and other officials were called and they did their investigations, but refused to remove the man's body until the coroner could come and pronounce him dead, which he finally did at midnight.

Children were around and it was difficult to keep them away. His family must have been terribly upset over this.

If there was any doubt that he was dead, if they needed the coroner to tell them that, then he should have been taken to hospital and not left to sit in the chair for 8 or 9 hours.

The man who was visiting us said that this happens here all the time. He went past a car accident and a body was laying in the road. Four hours later he came by and the body was still there. He stopped to ask why this was and was told the same story, they were waiting for a coroner to pronouce him dead.

What has happened to reason, when this sort of thing goes on.

Peregrine Falcons HatchingThe Brick

Comments

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Lois, your heart is so kind and combined with your intelligent mind you are a gift to those that know you. I am so sorry that saddness is around you.

By Cynthia23, # 8. May 2008, 03:14:18

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This is appalling!

Don't you have doctors in Florida? Surely all you need is a doctor to issue a death certificate in these situations- that's what they do here. Coroners then would only be needed to investigate the cause of the death.

Write some letters Lois!

By newlifenarrabri, # 8. May 2008, 04:24:50

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lois should not have to write letters, imo. the people who perform these important tasks, i.e., the county sherrif, the local chief of police, or even the local doctors have been removed from the responsibility due to lawyers and too many court rulings.

this is tragedy, this is loss, and this is very unfortunate for your community lois. i am sorry you had to deal with it, but glad you bring it to light. my sympathies lie with the family, friends, and community for the death of this person.

there is no reason why an ambulance medical technician could not have declared death and transported the human to a hospital morgue. if there was evidence by witnesses and the like that a crime of murder had occurred, then the chief of police and the county sherrif should have been able to make the call.

there are too many laws governing too many people that have nothing to do with the every-day-life of small knit communities and should not affect us but unfortunately these laws do. and that is my opinion, which is not too far off the mark. deborah.

By 1bluebox, # 8. May 2008, 05:16:54

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That is horrendous. Bureacracy trumps common sense all too often. Thoughts with the man's family :frown:

By SittingFox, # 8. May 2008, 06:30:21

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This very definately needs to be taken further and if no one else will do it, I certainly will. I just can't imagine how the people who loved him must have suffered for all that time!
I'm really not sure how to proceed, but I'll start with contacting the governor's office. If I may, friends, I'll quote from your comments here.
I expect the reasoning is as Deborah states, that the legal suits are at the bottom of this.
I will keep you posted!

By cakkleberrylane, # 8. May 2008, 10:10:07

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Good luck with this, Lois :smile:

By SittingFox, # 8. May 2008, 11:06:08

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Thanks Adele. And if anyone has any suggestions, I would be very happy to follow up on them.

By cakkleberrylane, # 8. May 2008, 11:47:02

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Wow..how sad for the family--and a huge lack of respect for the man & family! Terrible.
:heart:

By DuckyChickenLady, # 8. May 2008, 12:01:17

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I hope you are able to get some kind of change there Lois. It is a terrible process that is happening that must just magnify the grief of the families involved.

By newlifenarrabri, # 8. May 2008, 13:46:47

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Lois you are a very kind person! :smile:

Here in Portugal we have the same situations.:irked:

Every time I see something like that I say the same: "there is no reason why an ambulance medical technician could not have declared death and transported the human to a hospital morgue."

By zetorres, # 8. May 2008, 14:00:24

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Lois, these laws are both state and then county. The first place to start would be to find out what county requirements for pronouncement and removal are. If they are less restrictive than the state, then go straight to the state level. Your district representative would be a good place to start.
The laws vary from state to state but all states require the pronouncement to be done by a doctor, coroner or in limited cases, a RN when under hospice care.
Your county may be short of coroners, explaining the long wait, but the question arises as to why the EMS did not transport. They are bound to resuscitate as long as life is questionable and if they did stop, it constitutes the pronouncement. This may be a legal point when talking to the county about this.
The first step with the county would be to find the jurisdiction of the Coroners Office. In some counties it is the sheriffs office in most it is district courts. (Judge). Some are elected and some are appointed. this would make a big difference. To further complicate the matter, the county may use a Medical Examiner. This would be a real doctor, in most cases a pathologist and in some cases a lawyer also.
At any rate, I suggest you start with a petition of concerned voters. That always gets the attention of officials.
Hope this info helps some.

By cwbywz, # 8. May 2008, 15:51:34

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WOW Thanks Rick. That is excellent information and I'll start on that right now. Apparently the coroner takes care of 3 counties, which is why he is so busy. Still, as you said, if EMS stopped resuscitation, it would indicate life was done. There was an RN right there - the wife of the friend who told us about it.
Will let you know how it goes.

By cakkleberrylane, # 8. May 2008, 16:43:46

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I know nothing about US laws and stuff - but to the common man in the street this not only sounds without any logics but also sounds inhuman toward the relatives concerned.

I salute you for taking action on this issue.

By ricewood, # 8. May 2008, 18:56:20

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Thanks for the support!!

By cakkleberrylane, # 8. May 2008, 19:41:33

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Hummm, you might find out more by asking questions at the country commissioners meeting.
It might be a matter of money. The coroner may be contracted then. They may want to look to see if they are getting what they pay for.

By cwbywz, # 8. May 2008, 20:31:24

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Good thought Rick!

By cakkleberrylane, # 8. May 2008, 20:53:09

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if there was no obvious commission of a crime, murder. if it was obvious to witensses that the person expired by natural causes, why would the coroner be needed "at the scene"? the coroner might be needed in the lab and would still be paid for the service (expert service) they perform.

i still say the problem is that the chief, the patrol officers, the sheriff, the deputies; are strangled by rules, rules, and more rules that limit their abilities to protect the people in the communities they support! that fact alone causes the authorities to be inactive in matters that could otherwise be handled immediately, imo.

it wasn't twenty-five years ago that the law meant you obeyed the policeman who questioned you. today, the policeman who questions you might have to appear in court for questioning you. deborah.

By 1bluebox, # 8. May 2008, 20:59:21

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Thanks for the support everyone!

By cakkleberrylane, # 9. May 2008, 02:22:01

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Wow! What a story...

By momable, # 5. June 2008, 00:54:38

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