Opera News

1: "What do you miss most in Opera Dragonfly?"
21: "What do you miss most in other dev. tools (like web inspector, firebug,etc..) what Opera Dragonfly has?"

My question: "Is there a possibility to view dimensions of a specific element, like in the Google Chrome inspection tool? Sometimes it's very useful."

Originally posted by Mind-Influx:

Is it possible to save changes in a website to the root server?

I don't think so, Opera should have a built-in ftp client with possibility to edit & upload files to edit pages and save the changes, but it have nothing to do with the Dragonfly...

Is there any specific things in the next releases? Will Dragonfly support plugins (Firebug extensions) or macro/scripting to automate some actions.

What new features can we expect on future releases?

Hej!
What I really miss in Dragonfly, what is - by my personal opinion - better in Firebug, is the possibility to copy a complete style behavior block (so I can paste it into my CSS).

Another nice feature is the highlighting what Firebug gives you, when you misspelled the behavior rule name or use a inappropriate value. Right now, Dragonfly will just kill and remove the whole block (perhaps with all made changes... #*$%).

One last idea: When I use Dragonfly and click back on the site, I'll sorta stay within Dragonfly - I can't operate the site, until I shut down Dragonfly. Maybe that's just me though...

But, overall I have to admit, that I very rarely used Dragonfly. Firebug was more convenient first, so I kept it.
Hopefully the new versions become more comfortable and I can stick with Opera for all business... :-)

- Why did you named it "dragonfly"? what's the point? ;P

Do you plan to implement JS profiler?

What expecations did you had when you decided DF will open source and how did they fulfill?

Is it possible to see the total page size? I would imagine it would be in under the Resources tab but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Originally posted by vegatripy:

Why did you named it "dragonfly"?

http://my.opera.com/dstorey/blog/opera-dragonfly

Originally posted by pafflick:

My question: "Is there a possibility to view dimensions of a specific element, like in the Google Chrome inspection tool? Sometimes it's very useful."

Documents-> right side -> Layout tab

Originally posted by jamygolden:

Is it possible to see the total page size? I would imagine it would be in under the Resources tab but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Info Panel

Can we have Dragonfly open just in one tab (the one being inspected), without showing up in the other tabs?

Can we also have an easy way to supply a specific User Agent string to a website through Dragonfly and reload the page with any conditional/browser specific code the server might throw?

Also, a preview of how the page would look in a smaller screen (portable device/mobile browser) would be mighty helpful!

Thanks for the brilliant work you guys have put in so far!

Just one: when will the current context be switched automatically ? ala Firebug, Webkitinpector ?

This, and this alone stays me away from using Dragonfly...

Everything else is great! Dragonfly has nice innovations ! But having a debugger that's not attached to the current tab display really doesn't make it...

There are still a lot of developers who prefer Firebug, mostly because still many features are better implemented in Firebug than in Dragonfly.
Do you actually believe that Dragonfly can compete and not surrender a position?

I've only just started using Dragonfly (always used Firebug before) and I like it so far.

The one thing I miss is simply the line number in the CSS file in the "Styles" tab, the way Firebug does it.

Originally posted by flowermountain:

The one thing I miss is simply the line number in the CSS file in the "Styles" tab, the way Firebug does it.

Line numbers will be great for next version.

Thank you for great job so far.

Hey, don't blindly say that Firebug is better than Dragonfly.

Firebug development started in early 2006. Firebug currently stands at version 1.7. Versions 1.1 to 1.7 contain features requested in user feedback.

Opera dragonfly development started in mid-2008. Opera dragonfly currently stands at version 1.0. It's just the starting and version 1.0 is to collect user feedback and give some basic development tools. Later versions should respond to user feedback and implement features.

But will it blend?

Originally posted by ouzoWTF:

What expecations did you had when you decided DF will open source and how did they fulfill?

+1

Originally posted by hellboy4ever:

Can we have Dragonfly open just in one tab (the one being inspected), without showing up in the other tabs?

+1

How about an FTP solution for opera DrangonFly?
Is it possible to develop plugins for DragonFly?

Do you plan to improve user experience when debugging JavaScript in the way it works in Chrome - no necessity for reloading the page when accessing the debugging window for the first time?
It is happening to me sometimes, that something crazy happens on my site and I need to debug it, bud when I reload the page, it's lost... so that's why I would like to have reload-free JavaScript debugging

1)avoid any reload behavior in javascript and network panel.
2) add a filter function in drop down menu at javascript panel that allows filtering out unnecessary javascript files e.g. extension's js, jquery ect.

Originally posted by Penge4:

Documents-> right side -> Layout tab

You clearly don't understand what I mean. I was talking about Google Chrome.

Any plans for a vertical layout? (See Widerbug)

Originally posted by pafflick:

Originally posted by Penge4:

Documents-> right side -> Layout tab

You clearly don't understand what I mean. I was talking about Google Chrome.

no, he just said you, where you find for what you asked ("Is there a possibility to view dimensions of a specific element, like in the Google Chrome inspection tool? Sometimes it's very useful.")

Originally posted by hellboy4ever:

Can we also have an easy way to supply a specific User Agent string to a website through Dragonfly and reload the page with any conditional/browser specific code the server might throw?

you'll find it under network->network options tab (the one on the right there), right at the bottom

Originally posted by Altarius:

no, he just said you, where you find for what you asked ("Is there a possibility to view dimensions of a specific element, like in the Google Chrome inspection tool? Sometimes it's very useful.")

No, I wasn't asking where to find the dimensions, because I already know where to find them. Maybe it's because of my bad English, that you both don't understand me, so I made two screens to show what am I talking about:
This is how it looks in Chrome: http://i53.tinypic.com/4fwlqv.png
And Opera: http://i52.tinypic.com/s5vcxg.png

Another question: "Is the right-mouse-button context menu (while editing an element) removed, or just disabled and I don't know how to enable it?"

Originally posted by Altarius:

you'll find it under network->network options tab (the one on the right there), right at the bottom

Hi! I know about that
I'm looking for more specific UA options. Such as masking as any browser/any version of any browser out there.

Originally posted by hellboy4ever:

Originally posted by Altarius:

you'll find it under network->network options tab (the one on the right there), right at the bottom

Hi! I know about that I'm looking for more specific UA options. Such as masking as any browser/any version of any browser out there.

ah you mean some presets? yeah, i'd like them too

i'd like to know from the team, what big features are going to be in the next version.

Originally posted by pafflick:

This is how it looks in Chrome: http://i53.tinypic.com/4fwlqv.png
And Opera: http://i52.tinypic.com/s5vcxg.png

The dimensions shown in the Chrome screenshot are offsetWidth and offsetHeight. These are available on the Layout tab in Dragonfly. You can see that Web Inspector also reports the height as 0 in the metrics cube.

We did, for a brief period during the pre-releases, merge all side panels into one, but a majority of users disliked it.

Originally posted by Avantasia:

There are still a lot of developers who prefer Firebug, mostly because still many features are better implemented in Firebug than in Dragonfly.

The main reason is that Firebug is what people are used to.

I'm biased (I work on Dragonfly), but I wouldn't say that many features are better implemented in Firebug. Much of it is a matter of taste, and, as I mentioned, what you're used to.

Originally posted by fearphage:

Any plans for a vertical layout? (See Widerbug)

Try to "Undock into separate window" (top-right corner of DF) and place it how you want.

Originally posted by marcioAlmada:

How about an FTP solution for opera DrangonFly?
Is it possible to develop plugins for DragonFly?

You can read this Documentation Appendix C: Development

Originally posted by Avantasia:

There are still a lot of developers who prefer Firebug, mostly because still many features are better implemented in Firebug than in Dragonfly.
Do you actually believe that Dragonfly can compete and not surrender a position?

IMO, if I use Opera to browse web I don't want switch to FF/Firebug(it's loading too long on my PC) every time when I want to look something. There are all features that I use in DF, so I don't need FB and I think that I'm not alone with this view

Does the Dragonfly roadmap include more import/export tools?

One thing I'm confused with Dragonfly 1.0 is, style panel doesn't show CSS source as it written in original CSS file. I mean, for example, even if there is a declaration like

margin:0

style panel shows like this:

margin-bottom:0px;
margin-left:0px;
margin-right:0px;
margin-top:0px;

Is there any way to confirm original declaration in the style panel?

Kazuhito Kidachi: maybe it's because margin:0 is a shorthand equivalent to margin-bottom:0px;
margin-left:0px;
margin-right:0px;
margin-top:0px;

Originally posted by hzr:

We did, for a brief period during the pre-releases, merge all side panels into one, but a majority of users disliked it.

They disliked it, because it wasn't a good idea. And it's not a solution which I was asking for...
BTW. It's good that Dragonfly, which was the slowest inspection tool, now become the fastest one...

Originally posted by Necroman:

maybe it's because margin:0 is a shorthand equivalent

Yes, I do know that, but I just want to see "original" shorthand declaration in the style panel.

Do you plan to do some graphic improvement for Dragonfly, to make easier to find what the user want?

I am a normal user, only use it for get some pics which with the "save image..." I don't get. In "resource" tab, I take a little time to get what I want, but I think it would be easier if something like the Chrome "Dragonfly" format, which organizes the images in other files in folders, at least become it a panel

Why did Opera change its closed development model and make Opera dragonfly Open Source?

Any plans to abort the "one debugging context per INSTANCE" model and assume the "one debugging context per TAB" model that chromium and firebug have?

I had one question at the original page,and when i clicked on new
comments,it somehow brought me back to my original Q.

comments. Opera is my learning page each day. Love it! Thank you! I know i'm supposed to ask a question. But may i say. Dragonfly is always being enhanced and for me becomes easier to navigate with each new enhancement. To read about your work in progress @ http://www.opera.com/dragonfly/ gives me a better understanding of its ongoing development. Huge Fan!

Is there a way to keep the screenshots Dragonfly takes? I'd like a history of the screenshots I've used and the ability to manually save them.

Something that I often feel is missing from Firebug is a better explanation on what factors are influencing an element. The other day I spent forever digging through HTML and CSS trying to figure out why an element had moved down and finally saw that I'd somehow made a paragraph tag in the code when I'd deleted out a large chunk.

Check out if your question is selected in the Opera Tech Break video

Opera Tech Break: Opera Dragonfly Eats Bugs
http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/2011/05/27/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-opera-dragonfly

David said he would answer all of these questions. It's been almost 2 months now.

Originally posted by fearphage:

David said he would answer all of these questions. It's been almost 2 months now.

I don't think David said that in the video, however if you have some feedback, try Dragonfly blog: http://my.opera.com/dragonfly/blog/ or ODIN blog: http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/

* "What do you miss most in Opera Dragonfly?"

For me personally, it would probably be the folding of individual properties to shorthands in the CSS Inspector. Showing invalid rules there would also be nice. On the tools level, a profiler is the main tool we lack right now, but work is already underway on that.

* "What do you miss most in other dev. tools (like web inspector, firebug,etc..) what Opera Dragonfly has?"

The way the side panels are organised (in one panel with expanders) in Web Inspector frustrates me. I also sorely miss the searching and filtering support that Opera Dragonfly has. It is so convenient when you're used to using it. Especially with Opera 1.1, I think we have by far the best support for finding what you're looking for. Another thing would be the built in colour tools. When developing on mobile, the remote debugging feature is invaluable.

*are there plans javascript profiling and integration with Google Page Speed and/or YSlow?

Yes, we're currently building support in Scope for profiling.

* are there plans for an always-on mode (no need to refresh to get any information) for DF?

No concrete plans yet, but we want to solve the reload issue eventually.

* has any DF code in 1.0 come from non-employees currently?

Yes. There has been some checkins that have passed code review and been included.

* Any plans to move or at least duplicate/syndicate bitbucket to github to get more exposure and community contributions?

No concrete plans yet, but we are open to it.

* any plans to make DF more easily extensible? By that I mean, will we see DF extensions or something similar one day?

We've discussed it, and it is something we want to do, but it isn't on the immediate roadmap. There are a few things we want to do first like adding the profiler and polish up the features we currently have.

* Is there a possibility to view dimensions of a specific element, like in the Google Chrome inspection tool? Sometimes it's very useful.

You can find this in the Layout tab of the Documents panel.

* Is there any specific things in the next releases? Will Dragonfly support plugins (Firebug extensions) or macro/scripting to automate some actions.

You can follow updates to the never version on the Opera Dragonfly blog: http://my.opera.com/dragonfly/ . Its a bit too early to talk about Opera Dragonfly 1.2 right now, but the profiler will be the most notable new addition.

* When I use Dragonfly and click back on the site, I'll sorta stay within Dragonfly - I can't operate the site, until I shut down Dragonfly. Maybe that's just me though...

There is a button with an arrow icon in the Documents panel toolbar. If you disable this the element selection is disabled.

* What was the largest speed optimisation made, in Dragonfly?

Most likely, it was to optimise the use of selectors. Using a bad selector can have a drastic impact on performance. Using classes for example speeds things up by an order of magnitude.

* What tools, if any, did you use to measure the time it took Opera to render or parse a file used in Dragonfly?

We made some performance tests such as http://scope.bitbucket.org/tests/selector-pattern-matching-performance/index.html and http://scope.bitbucket.org/tests/js-highlight-performance/index.html for testing performance.

* Is it one of your intentions for Dragonfly to be Opera's Page source viewer?

The first stage would be making Opera Dragonfly good enough to replace the source viewer. When we support everything that does, like editing the source and reloading from cache, then we can weight it up. The error log is probably the first place to think about replacing the native version, as Opera Dragonfly is probably better than the built in version. It just needs access to errors before Opera Dragonfly was open, which will come in Opera 12. It is already implemented on the Opera Dragonfly side. There has been no decision if this will happen however.

* Why did you named it "dragonfly"? what's the point? ;P

We liked the name. It sounded good, they're beautiful creatures that are popular in a number of countries, and they're powerful predators that feast on some of the worlds most deadly bugs such as mosquitos.

* Is it possible to see the total page size? I would imagine it would be in under the Resources tab but I can't seem to find it anywhere.

It can be found when hovering the first resource in the Network inspector. Expect a better Network Inspector in a future version however. We still have a bunch of work to go.

* Can we have Dragonfly open just in one tab (the one being inspected), without showing up in the other tabs?

We need multi-client support in the Scope protocol for this. It is quite complex to fix. IT is on our list though.

* Can we also have an easy way to supply a specific User Agent string to a website through Dragonfly and reload the page with any conditional/browser specific code the server might throw?

You can do this in the Network Options of the Network panel. You can choose from a preset or supply your own.

* Also, a preview of how the page would look in a smaller screen (portable device/mobile browser) would be mighty helpful!

For things like media queries you can resize the screen smaller, but for the most accurate results it is best to test in the real thing. Using the Opera Mobile emulator (really a port of Opera Mobile to desktop OS') is the closest you're going to get without using the actual device. You can use Opera Dragonfly to remotely debug Opera Mobile or the emulator. See http://www.opera.com/developer/tools/mobile/

* The one thing I miss is simply the line number in the CSS file in the "Styles" tab, the way Firebug does it.

This is now supported in Opera Dragonfly 1.1, which is coming out soon.

* But will it blend?

Software is too soft to blend, sorry.

* How about an FTP solution for opera DrangonFly?

This isn't something we've thought about.

* Any plans for a vertical layout? (See Widerbug)

Yes. The Opera Dragonfly code is more or less ready for being used in a vertical layout. It just needs some design tweaks to optimise it and make it look good. It needs support from desktop however to make Dragonfly work in a panel or sidebar. We've discussed this internally.

* Does the Dragonfly roadmap include more import/export tools?

We've discussed this yes, such as HAR for example. There are a few things we need to get done first though.

* Is there any way to confirm original declaration in the style panel?

It shows the CSS after it has been parsed by Opera. We plan to collapse the rules to shorthands, probably with an initial implementation in Opera Dragonfly 1.2. You can see the original rules in the Resource Inspector.

* Is there a way to keep the screenshots Dragonfly takes? I'd like a history of the screenshots I've used and the ability to manually save them.

Not yet. That would require FileWriter, which Opera doesn't support yet. The screenshot is for use with the colour picker rather than an actual screenshot tool. We've discussed enhancing it to support the thigs you'd want with a good screen shot tool though.

@dstorey Are there plans to allow "forcing" Dragonfly to be persistently cached, no matter what other settings are (ie. even after clearing localStorage, disk cache, etc.)?

Or maybe offering some sort of whitelist inside persistent storage (so that it is possible to "Clear All", except those in the said whitelist)?