Get rid of the windows titlebar

Get rid of the windows titlebar

Why doesn't opera get rid of the useless windows titlebar and integrate the minimize, restore, close buttons onto the bar that contains File Edit View etc A lot of people like minamalist UI's to maximise the page size and this would be a great help I don't know if i have explained myself well but if you don't know what i mean have a look at iTunes 6. What do you guys (and Gals) think?

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Those buttons are integrated part of OS GUI. Users expect elements like those buttons to be in the proper place. If you want save more space for browsing, hide menu bar (ctrl-f11) or use full-screen mode.

+1

Originally posted by don_jaro:

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Those buttons are integrated part of OS GUI. Users expect elements like those buttons to be in the proper place.

That's true, but how about an option for powerusers to get rid of it? Also, along with putting the minimize, restore and close buttons on the menu bar, the title should also be displayed.

You may not be able to get rid of the title bar space (besides, it is helpful to see the title of a page) but the space could be made more useful. I recall Firefox lets you drag buttons and things to that space, so you can fill it up and eliminate other toolbars.

The title bar is part of the operating system. If the OS/desktop environment supports disabling the title bar, then you can disable it for Opera or anything else.

I don't think this is something Opera can or should do anything about.

And I don't think Firefox allows title bar customization (buttons, etc.) for the above mentioned reason.

well i guess that kills that idea. Still i don't see why it can't be an option, i think it would be popular

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Applications should not be messing around with OS/WM controls.

+1

Apps can disable the titlebar on Windows (many do). So Opera should enable. Let us right-click on the titlebar and get the "Customize" dialog; let us disable it if we want to. Nobody will be forced to disable it. As part of this, the title bar components should appear on their own customize -> buttons page: OS-specific window button (the Move/Size/Minimize/Maximize/Close menu button); Title; Minimize, Maximize, Close whole window buttons. Then we can rearrange them, make our own titlebar with the parts we want, where we want them.

If you don't want the OS titlebar "messed with", you don't have to change it.

>Bela<

Originally posted by haavard:

The title bar is part of the operating system. If the OS/desktop environment supports disabling the title bar, then you can disable it for Opera or anything else.

I don't think this is something Opera can or should do anything about.

And I don't think Firefox allows title bar customization (buttons, etc.) for the above mentioned reason.

I must be remembering this wrong. It's probably not the title bar. Maybe what Firefox does is let you drag buttons and things to the right of the File, Edit toolbar, where all that white space is otherwise wasted. That's probably what I'm remembering.

That's a very good idea too. If you could fill up that space with buttons, you could eliminate another toolbar and have more browsing space.

+1

If other applications can change it that means opera can to. I would like to use the space to open an extra row of tabs. I only use bookmarks the adressbar and tabs.

Why do you think I need the toolbar all day?

Originally posted by Daedalus:

Applications should not be messing around with OS/WM controls.

Too right! I already get pissed off by applications that use CLOSE for minimise to tray instead of MINIMISE. What the hell is the point in having minimise to task bar if you always want to minimise to tray?.. Just minimise to tray with the bloody minimise button and forget about minimise. Close is useful. People have been asking for this stupid feature in Opera for ages now too. Grr!

It's the same for web sites and browser controls! God damn flash and javascript!

Anyway... -1

I don't want the Microsoft banner on my screen. I set my monitor to hide it now. It sure looks neat.

+1

=> "irfan view" can disable the standard windows title bar.
so it's possible for sure.
by now I've disabled the main menu (File...) and created it on the main bar with a clock and status. (jpg: 19.7 kB)

I really hope It will be possible to adjust also the title bar.

I should add that I really love tile windows [shift+F6] with hide scrollbars [ctrl+F7] with a bit of zoom page +/- fit to window width [ctrl+F11?] and hide images [shift+I]

I dont remember what the mobile view key was but I sure do see a screen full of windos banners. win98.png

Yes, that also is annoying. but the "banners" help to move windows, don't they?
And do you know that You could use the space next to Main menu? by using butons from opera wiki [File],[Edit] and so on - you can have e.g. a status field next to "Help" menu

Couldn't someone make a "Fullscreen" button that keeps all of your toolbars and the Windows taskbar visible? It seems possible, though I'm not sure. The only drawback is that you'd have to click it every time you start Opera

Ithink it would be nice to hide the title bar the same way you hide the Hotlist, by clicking on the left side on screen. Then it also would be easy to show/hide it. I hope for a option in the 9.0 release :-)

@ Loman:

Fullscreen... Yes, that's a quick fix, but then you don't have your Windows Taskbar - don't see other programs...
I also hope it is not that painful to add a switch-option for Opera caption/title bar and allow placing buttons or Personal bar with bookmarks next to Main menu

Originally posted by haavard:

The title bar is part of the operating system. If the OS/desktop environment supports disabling the title bar, then you can disable it for Opera or anything else. I don't think this is something Opera can or should do anything about. And I don't think Firefox allows title bar customization (buttons, etc.) for the above mentioned reason.

Here, here ;-) I fully agree with this reasoning.

Originally posted by haavard:

The title bar is part of the operating system. If the OS/desktop environment supports disabling the title bar, then you can disable it for Opera or anything else.

I don't think this is something Opera can or should do anything about.

And I don't think Firefox allows title bar customization (buttons, etc.) for the above mentioned reason.

You can disable it in Maxthon.

If you won't let us disable it then at least let us put buttons on it. The bar has way too much empty space.

Whilst I have a problem with title bars on windows, I don't think Opera should venture into it's own solution. I'd prefer to find a utility that removed the title bar from all applications. If anyone know of one, let me know.

Also, I think Windows originally had to have a title bar because Apple ownes a patent on having the menu bar sitting tight against the top of the screen. That patent has probably expired by now though.

Chrome haz it.

Make an remove option in Opera too... unless there's some sort of contract with Micro$oft

In linux (ubuntu) version of Opera you can disable the titlebar using -> gtk-window-decorator --replace --minimal

you can also make launchers on a panel for maximise and close a window.


I agree, titlebars are pretty much useless and take up valuable space

It would be a last god-damn time to do something different than other browsers.

Yes. It can be done regarless of the OS. The minimise buttons can be kept in the corner as well.
You should be hiding the menu bar anyway. (See custom buttons)

This feature is one of two amazing things that Opera should adopt; removing the title bar, and the power of the Omnibar.

Originally posted by Morghus:

and the power of the Omnibar.

Doesn't Opera already do what Omnibar does?

Originally posted by drworm:

Doesn't Opera already do what Omnibar does?

I'd say Opera does it better than the Omnibar. Typing in "g [space] [search term here]" will automatically search Google for the search term that you've entered in. Unless, Chrome does this too?

Omnibar does a live search for websites, afaik?

Originally posted by Morghus:

Omnibar does a live search for websites, afaik?

Oh, like Google Chrome does. A lot of privacy people jumped up and down about that because the browser has to log your keystokes (i.e. it's a Key Logger"). I wonder how Opera users would react to that idea.

Originally posted by Morghus:

Omnibar does a live search for websites, afaik?

What if you use a different search engine entirely? The results stemming from one search engine generally won't be the ones you want for another.

The best you can do is to stretch the browser vertically. Dragging the top up hides 1/2 the titlebar. And you're right about putting more things on the menu bar and getting rid of 1 other bar. That extra thickness must drag some people back to Firefox, unless custom buttons can do the same thing in Opera.


http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard01bm5.gif

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If the title bar is disabled, how will i drag my window around ?
If it is disabled, I will have only a small space to grab my window and drag it. That's one thing I don't like about Chrome.

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Why do you want to get rid of the windows title bar?
1) "If other applications can change"
And what next? 99% of other applications have this title bar and no one seems to be disapointed about that.

2) Are you losing than 1 centimeter of web page? Serious - is that a big lost for you?
Well, remove all useless panels than and put all needed buttons in 1 panels

Originally posted by oviradoi:

If the title bar is disabled, how will i drag my window around ?

If the window is not maximized, then the title bar is useful. If the window is maximized you cannot drag it around anyway.

When the window is maximized it is just a waste of space. Minimize, Restore, and Close buttons can already be made for those who need them.

Let's use that space for status fields or something else useful.

Originally posted by Pesala:

When the window is maximized it is just a waste of space. Minimize, Restore, and Close buttons can already be made for those who need them.

Note that the Minimize command in Opera is not the same effect as the Windows' Minimize button in the Title bar, because if you minimize Opera with Opera's minimize command - Windows won't release memory holding by Opera even it's in minimize mode.

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The title bar is not useless! It's the only place you can read the whole page title (often necessary). And without totally changing the OS widgets (as Chrome does) it's difficult to move the window.

In Windows XP you can shrink the large title bar right down by going to Display Properties > Appearance > Advanced. As someone else said, you can get third-party apps and skins for Windows that remove/shrink the title bar across all programs.

In Opera you can do any of the following things:
1. Press F11 for full screen. If you want "minimalist" and most browsing area, this is he only solution.
2. Install a minimalist skin such as Breeze: http://my.opera.com/community/customize/skins/minimalist/
3. Turn off various toolbars in Appearance prefs (Shift+F12). I used to browse for years without the tab bar until I realized that a few pixels of screen space makes no difference whatsoever.
4. Get over you obsession with extra pixels of screen space and just enjoy using Opera!

@svivian Thanks for those pointers, now that's really helpful!

I beg to differ though. There's no reason to keep the titlebar, except for the title of the page, and 99% of the time I'm perfectly aware of where I am, so it's not used.

Screenestate is extremely important to users with laptop screens. Atleast it's to my laptop screen ;D

Originally posted by Morghus:

I beg to differ though. There's no reason to keep the titlebar, except for the title of the page, and 99% of the time I'm perfectly aware of where I am, so it's not used.

But this is true for most software. It really should be left up to the shell. The only reason why MS created a title bar is because Apple had a patent on having the file menu against the top of the screen in the early days of GUI OSes.

Although you could argue that since MS bucked its own standard with Office 2007 and moved some tools into the title bar, that perhaps Opera could do the same. As a GUI element, the title bar is without a doubt an area of a window that is most accessible yet least used--it's backwards.

I'm voting here too
Its should be up to the user if to enable/disable the titlebar.

I dont like the titlebar, espcially when i'm at work and have 25 tabs opened. also the black skin is alittle "abused".
Would love to see Title bar diable feature, just like Chrome.

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1) Apps should integrate in the Environment of the OS. Eliminating THE ONE standards components that all windows have in common is not a really great way of doing so.
2) The proposed places for the window-handling buttons is allready used if you have MDI enabled.
3) chrome also hasn't the title bar disabled (well, it uses a non-os-one), but the MENU bar (which imo is also no good idea, as menus are also a quite standards way of interacting with an app and imo the trend - at least for win apps - to not having a menu bar is really bad)

+1 for having the POSSIBILITY of disabling the title bar..

Originally posted by serious:

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1) Apps should integrate in the Environment of the OS. Eliminating THE ONE standards components that all windows have in common is not a really great way of doing so.
2) The proposed places for the window-handling buttons is allready used if you have MDI enabled.
3) chrome also hasn't the title bar disabled (well, it uses a non-os-one), but the MENU bar (which imo is also no good idea, as menus are also a quite standards way of interacting with an app and imo the trend - at least for win apps - to not having a menu bar is really bad)

Absolutely! Except for (3). I think in a Browser this bar is totally useless. And for windows that don't use it it's totally normal not to have one.
I already have disabled the menu bar and replaced it with a button containing this menu...

Originally posted by Hades32:

I think in a Browser this bar is totally useless. And for windows that don't use it it's totally normal not to have one.
I already have disabled the menu bar and replaced it with a button containing this menu...

well, you could argue on that [1], esp on desktop computers where you need "full functionality". Anyhow, what I really wanted to say: I now have a netbook (see sig) where I also disabled the menu bar just to get some screen space [2]. Also on the netbook I totally don't need the menu bar as I just need it for some surfing with not much special stuff (no mail, etc), so I see your point there.

[1] I did some computer setup stuff for a really small non-profit organisation and they totally freaked out because there was no menu bar in that friggin' M$ office 2007 - but they didn't want open office for some reason ...
[2] ... maybe I should also select a less space wasting window decoration too ... meh, I'm too lazy

Chrome did it, winamp, win media player also

Is it really that hard for Opera? There should be option for users.

+1 .