Get rid of the Star in the Address bar

Get rid of the Star in the Address bar

In general I'm quite open to making the UI more useful and easy for new users. My openness has finally found its limits[1] in that idiotic and unmovable star in the address bar.

• It is redundant, we have a great thing called toolbar buttons.
  
• It eats space I'd rather use, you know, for reading the address of the page; this is compounded when using restored MDI windows.
  
• It is "non-standard"; Opera gets rid of the whole history of calling web pages "pages" for greater "consistency", then dumps some silly pseudo-button that has no clear UI standard in the interface (same for the RSS button, but at least it does something wonderful).
  
• It floats over text rather than obscures it looking messy and unclear.
  
• It is, just simply, an utterly useless waste of pixels and screen-space.
  
• Adding bookmarks is hardly the most challenging thing a user can do! Do you really believe some newbie coming from IE/FF, incapable of using favourites/bookmarks, tries Opera and suddenly has an Epiphany that they can bookmark pages for the first time because of a cryptic button floating in the address bar!?
  
• EDIT:It has a context menu, but it is from the underlying address bar! So you right-click, and have options to "copy to notes" etc. — yet none of it applies to the button; utterly confusing.
  

The address bar is already getting full with security information and feed discovery, adding a "bookmark page" button is simply one step too far. Skin authors can remove it forcefully, but why should we, this abomination should simply stay out of the address bar in the first place.

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[1] The renaming of pages to tabs and the shortcut changes comes close, but I'm willing to contemplate the other side of this argument.

+1

+1

+1

I actually kinda like having it. Shines when a page is already bookmarked and grey if not. Just a thought. Couldnt the image in the skin be replaced with a 1x1 pixel, transparent PNG? That would remove it.

Marc: yes we authors can remove it as I stated above, but we shouldn't have to. At least make it removable and addable via the toolbar config at the least.

It is irrelevant to me if it glows or not; a toolbar button can do the same, is standard and simple and doesn't float over my addresses!

Originally posted by non-troppo:

trys Opera and suddenly has an Epiphany that they can bookmark pages for the first time because of a cryptic button floating in the address bar!?

</sweetirony>

I agree that is should be configurable. I'd prefer not to have it, or at least having the ability to drag it to a different place (maybe use the right corner of the status field as it uses the one in the address field now). I think the color change when you visit a bookmarked page is interesting though.

Come to think of it some more, making the star more configerable - be able to change its location and treat it like any other button, sounds like a better alternative to the current state.

Originally posted by non-troppo:

Marc: yes we authors can remove it as I stated above, but we shouldn't have to. At least make it removable and addable via the toolbar config at the least.

That seems like a great idea! Then users have the choice to use it or not. I am always in favor of choice.

Originally posted by non-troppo:

It is irrelevant to me if it glows or not

Yeah, but its kinda cute... lol

I actually think it's a little cute... but it should definitively be made an option.
Make it glow in some other color when the page you are on is on a bookmarked _domain_?

Personally I have alot of room in my address-bar.

On the other hand, the new tab/window handling sucks. Ofcourse it's easy to configure, but it feels like opera have chickened out

Not all of us have lots of space, either because of limited screen resolution or using the toolbar efficiently with other stuff on it (e.g. status field or button we want to use!). That no user can choose is the real killer point here.

Yes, pages morphing into tabs riles my semantic heckles considerably too. The steam-roller of conformity hears not the cries of those crushed in its path!

I like it, but yes add the option to turn it off.
+1

Originally posted by non-troppo:

Yes, pages morphing into tabs riles my semantic heckles considerably too. The steam-roller of conformity hears not the cries of those crushed in its path!

Ahh... but what that steam-roller can build! Not to say conformity is the only way to get new users or make Opera any better, but the general public (aka those who have no brain) like to know one piece of software is similar to another. I love how pages are called "pages" and add to Opera's uniqueness and I also hate how Opera has now turned around and named them drab "tabs," but this "standard" might also lead to less confusion for new users.

Originally posted by rmccabe916:

I love how pages are called "pages" and add to Opera's uniqueness and I also hate how Opera has now turned around and named them drab "tabs," but this "standard" might also lead to less confusion for new users.

Me too -- my old Dutch translation files still call them 'pages', which means that you can rename them by yourself in the .LNG file. I truly love Opera's freedom of choice

Originally posted by non-troppo:

It is irrelevant to me if it glows or not; a toolbar button can do the same, is standard and simple and doesn't float over my addresses!

I hope you don't mean to imply that you can create a button that lights up when the page is already bookmarked?

Now, select some text on this page and press Ctrl+Shift+C (or use the context menu to add a note. Now look again at the address field. This one is more interesting I think.

But I get the poitn of this thread, and I kindof agree that is should be configrable.

Originally posted by hermen2048:

my old Dutch translation files still call them 'pages'

Hm... The Dutch Firefox calls them 'tabblad', maybe I should use that

Originally posted by Rijk:

Now, select some text on this page and press Ctrl+Shift+C (or use the context menu to add a note. Now look again at the address field. This one is more interesting I think.

Nothing happens for me.

Originally posted by Rijk:

Hm... The Dutch Firefox calls them 'tabblad', maybe I should use that

Oh no! Not again.

Originally posted by MarcFou:

Nothing happens for me.

Same here...

edit: Actually, it does work in some pages

edit2: OK, it works in every page except the one I tried it first (wth was I selecting?)

Great

Originally posted by Rijk:

Now, select some text on this page and press Ctrl+Shift+C (or use the context menu to add a note. Now look again at the address field. This one is more interesting I think.

OK, that IS[1] cool (sticky notes anyone)! But please allow me to move such great functionality where I want...


[1] It makes a little note icon appear, clicking it highlights the note attached to the page as we've asked for for a long time!

So the star doubles as a "Page has a note" indicator. This is a great addition!

Hmm... Wonder where they got this idea from? Did somebody check out the other way to get stickies on sites?

yes but, once I have a note, I cannot bookmark the page anymore by clicking the star. :-( A button should not change function like that.

Actually it could be more useful if:
- it shinned on bookmarked pages
- it is greyed out on pages not bookmarked but for which the domain or another page has been bookmarked
- it is not there when the page nor the domain are present in the bookmark list

In a word, it would be very useful if it was an indicator of whether or not the page or domain have already been bookmarked.

Originally posted by lsaplai:

yes but, once I have a note, I cannot bookmark the page anymore by clicking the star. :-( A button should not change function like that.

I agree. It takes away the point of having the bookmark button there in the first place. I also agree with your other ideas except that having the button there sometimes and not at other times would not be a very constant part of the interface. If I am thinking correctly, consistency outweighs logic sometimes when dealing with software.

you're right that it would need to be consistent. The star could simply be outlined then, but with a transparent background (easier to skin?).
Also, as n-t says, it should not be on top of the text. it should have a non transparent background.
+ everything else about option and choive, of course.

Originally posted by lsaplai:

yes but, once I have a note, I cannot bookmark the page anymore by clicking the star

good point.

wow, i didnt know people could be so offended by a little button, sure it would be nice to turn off and all, and I'm sure it will be possible soon enough in a later build

But ya, wow what a response to a simple button

+1

Opera likes to try new ideas - I don't like this one either, but like the X on tabs, some might, so lets make this something that we can switch off in opera:config, and something that doesn't switch on for users who are upgrading. The alternative is to make this customisable with the Customise... GUI.

Also, shouldn't the star be the bookmark icon from the chosen skin?

I hate to suggest an IE7 feature for a "new idea" but hey, since it's in beta - and all the other browsers seem to be ripping Opera off, why not get some payback and have a tab thumnails page

Seb

Originally posted by sebt:

why not get some payback and have a tab thumnails page

+1 That would be excellent.

When you click on the note icon does it highlight ??
If so, it doesn't do that here, instead brings up the add to bookmark window. Anyone ?

ok, i opened the notes panel, closed it .... click on that icon and it highlights....bug ?

I like the star - It's easier to add bookmarks with it.

Originally posted by MarcFou:

Shines when a page is already bookmarked and grey if not.

Sweet!
Edit: but it already shines when you bookmarked the page. It works not every time^[1], but this is TP not even a beta. All together with noted icon it's just amazing! Only thing that was already mentioned... What if I have bookmarked and noted the page? Or I noted but want to bookmark?... Need more polish.
But it really innovative!
Also it will be very helpfull to me because I have huge number of bookmarks in categorized folders... And I'm start thinking from time to time if I bookmarked some page before... Also, some times one bookmark under two or three categories. Hmmm... what bookmark will show me opera when I click on shine star if I have more than one bookmark?

[1] It seems that it works only if you click on star to bookmark. So, if I already have bookmarks or bookmarked in alternative way Opera doesn't shine the star for now. No doubts devs guys will polished it for next preview or beta, so star will shine more bright and often.

non-troppo: I don't ever use bookmarks. Ever. With this button, I've found many benefits to using them (though a bit grudgingly).

A large problem with making this star a button is that it'll clash with the "top ten" star. Perhaps a color change or symbol change is in order.

As far as interfacing with Notes, only good can come of it. It's a shame that people don't find/use such a usefull feature.

Yah!!!
I love it

I like it, but I'm not sure if the bookmar star should be toogether with the notes indicator. The star loses functionality and it might be misleading.

There are two problems with the bookmark button, IMO, one of which applies to all address field buttons:

* its behavior is a bit confusing: bookmarks a page if not bookmarked, hides/unhides the panel if already bookmarked. the latter is completely unnecessary - I'd rather see the bookmark's properties if it should do anything at all. Moreover, I have seen at least one example of a page that wasn't recognized as bookmarked because the url was automatically changed from www.something.com (can't remember) into and address with all kinds of parameters in it.

* more general complaint: these "buttons" are actually status messages ("there's a note for this page", "there's a newsfeed available", "you have bookmarked this page", "this page is secure") on which you can click to get some extra functionality (see note, subscribe to feed, bookmark page, see security settings, respectively). I only see a need for the security field in the address field because it is so important. The others are really stuff for the status bar. That's how IE does it too - if you want to make it easier for people to switch, then you could also follow that design decision.

Originally posted by non-troppo:

It floats over text rather than obscures it looking messy and unclear.

Originally posted by scipio:

these "buttons" are actually status messages

Put them (the messages) in a separate field (box).

The star should stop shining when the bookmark is trashed.

Another thing is, if you want to read the address bar just click on it and the star disseapers

IDEA! How about changing the background colour of the address bar?
If it is bookmarked then it changes to light gray and if it is noted then changes to green or something and if it is both- yea pretty obvious .. like a chameleon!

And middle clicking will add to bookmark .... no middle click ? no problemo - double click!

Problems solved!

Originally posted by scipio:

its behavior is a bit confusing… …I only see a need for the security field in the address field because it is so important. The others are really stuff for the status bar.

Yup, exactly.

Originally posted by GOD00007:

How about changing the background colour of the address bar?

IIRC the UI devs don't seem to like this too much, but I may have misremembered a conversation about the way Firefox uses background colour for secure pages.

GENERAL: The idea of status information on whether the page is bookmarked/noted with visual feedback is not the issue here. I've long wanted a note button that highlights to indicate notes for that page (though I'd want a tooltip to become the note contents too!). The issue is choice, I want to choose which status information I need. I don't need my address bar filled with floating glowing non-standard UI widgets for bookmarked pages. This button removes my choice; it forces me to have to see it. As scipio mentions, the status field is the obvious place for this; if I could drag that star to it and split off notes from bookmark status I'd be happy.

It is "non-standard" Opera gets rid of the whole history of using "pages" for greater "consistency", then dumps some silly pseudo-button that has no clear UI standard in the interface (same for the RSS button, but at least it does something wonderful).

Firefox also reacts the same as Opera in the latest betas.

Originally posted by non-troppo:

The others are really stuff for the status bar

Errr, I don't (and won't) even use the status bar and really like having these icons.

Originally posted by van_grieg:

Errr, I don't (and won't) even use the status bar

That doesn't change the observation you quoted, imo. They're status reports and fit the status bar better than the address field. If they were single toolbar elements (as the status field), you would be able to drag them to any toolbar.

Originally posted by scipio:

They're status reports and fit the status bar better than the address field

This is something I always have, and always will disagree with. These widgets are fields or bars not by divine testaments, but simply because someone called them this way. A name of a widget isn't an awfully good reason to remove functionality.

Originally posted by scipio:

you would be able to drag them to any toolbar.

It's not possible to drag anything to the address field. And I don't want any more buttons on my bars, there's not too much space there.

Originally posted by van_grieg:

A name of a widget isn't an awfully good reason to remove functionality.

It's not about the name, it's about the functionality: these icons are status reports.

Originally posted by van_grieg:

I don't want any more buttons on my bars, there's not too much space there.

Nor is there in the address field.

Originally posted by Rijk:

Now, select some text on this page and press Ctrl+Shift+C (or use the context menu to add a note. Now look again at the address field. This one is more interesting I think.

Wow, nice
I like the idea that I wouldn't bookmark already bookmarked page. But I dont like the star, and I'm definitely

+1 for option to shut it off (as well as the note one, sometimes I have on small monitor just enough space to see the address)


(I replaced the star for 1px gif as soon I found out how and fact, that I can click the end of addressbar to bookmark/see that it is bookmarked already I like even more )

Originally posted by scipio:

It's not about the name, it's about the functionality: these icons are status reports.

If it's not about the name, what's wrong with showing status reports in a widget containing the page address? I personally find it the perfect place for that. It only becomes a problem when you believe that address fields should only contain addresses, browsers should only surf and not be email clients, email clients should not try to be newsreaders etc.

It reminds me of the poor fate of the Received access point in M2. First somebody didn't think it through and called it Received instead of All messages. Now because they called it this way, they're trying to remove sent items from it. Instead of just trying to change naming conventions so that they make sense.

Originally posted by van_grieg:

If it's not about the name, what's wrong with showing status reports in a widget containing the page address?

Because I may want to see as much of the URL as possible, without obscuring by floating pseudo-buttons. If you want to have it in the address field, that's fine (and I agree to a point that semantic classifications are arbitrary, though you have to concede nevertheless they have value), but it shouldn't be forced on those who don't.

i want to be able to see as much of the full address as possible, and without clicking on anything. these additions to the address field obscure what i want to see and add a functionality that i don't use, which is therefore not a functionality to me [this includes the RSS indicator as well]. i much prefer having all such additions optional. as always, choice is the most important thing.

Personally I do like RSS-, bookmark-, notes- icons/ buttons on address bar.

Originally posted by sebt:

Opera likes to try new ideas - I don't like this one either, but like the X on tabs

I personally like the new bookmark stars on address bar (and not on the status bar as I don't use this bar)-- but I don't like the X on tabs.

...so lets make this something that we can switch off in opera:config ...

Yeah, that would be nice to have.

shouldn't the star be the bookmark icon from the chosen skin?

As far as I concern NO -- I like the star and I'd like to have it standardised and as small as possible.

I hate to suggest an IE7 feature for a "new idea" but hey, since it's in beta - and all the other browsers seem to be ripping Opera off, why not get some payback and have a tab thumnails page

Indeed, why not?

Originally posted by non-troppo:

I may want to see as much of the URL as possible, without obscuring by floating pseudo-buttons. If you want to have it in the address field, that's fine (and I agree to a point that semantic classifications are arbitrary, though you have to concede nevertheless they have value)

Yeah, each one on its own.
Click on the address bar and all those buttons/ icons are gone and the url is perfectly readable, no?