Occupy Wall Street protests not valid?

Occupy Wall Street protests not valid?

Is it ok for police to pepper spray peaceful protesters and then walk away?



Oh, and the media hardly covers the protests themselves, much less this so there's only youtube.

No I don't think it is right to pepper spray in that situation. It is hardly phenomenal masses. The fact that Wall Street is a protected species only belies the fact the country is actually run from there. Anything else is a front. They caused the crisis but it is the ordinary who suffer whilst they get away with daylight robbery inckluding of the peoples' taxes.

Same cop did it again.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

No I don't think it is right to pepper spray in that situation. It is hardly phenomenal masses. The fact that Wall Street is a protected species only belies the fact the country is actually run from there. Anything else is a front. They caused the crisis but it is the ordinary who suffer whilst they get away with daylight robbery inckluding of the peoples' taxes.

Nonsense RJ. That could never be true in the Land of the Free(tm)

Originally posted by Muttsfan:

Originally posted by rjhowie:

No I don't think it is right to pepper spray in that situation. It is hardly phenomenal masses. The fact that Wall Street is a protected species only belies the fact the country is actually run from there. Anything else is a front. They caused the crisis but it is the ordinary who suffer whilst they get away with daylight robbery inckluding of the peoples' taxes.

Nonsense RJ. That could never be true in the Land of the Free(tm)

Never. An impossibility.

The protests are spreading and yet the banks are so out of touch that they're raising fees.

It is the banks who have created much of the present crisis. When you think of the vast numbers of people having lives ruined whilst Wall Street Barons get away with anything and often with tax-payers money they should damn well spread. After all it is those same Barons who run the country and the lot on the Hill are just their lackeys. It is a superficial system to keep the children happy.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

It is the banks who have created much of the present crisis.

Then congress and the President Bush bailed them out (yes, SF and company, that was Bush) Now there are massive foreclosures, etc. Around here, there's something like 45,000 unsold homes, many of the foreclosed; others not technically foreclosed yet, but people had to walk away from their property (just as my neighbor across the street.)

Meanwhile, the arrests mount:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/02/us-wallstreet-protests-idUSTRE7900BL20111002

(Reuters) - Police reopened the Brooklyn Bridge Saturday evening after more than 700 anti-Wall Street protesters were arrested for blocking traffic lanes and attempting an unauthorized march across the span.

The arrests took place when a large group of marchers, participating in a second week of protests by the Occupy Wall Street movement, broke off from others on the bridge's pedestrian walkway and headed across the Brooklyn-bound lanes.

"Over 700 summonses and desk appearance tickets have been issued in connection with a demonstration on the Brooklyn Bridge late this afternoon after multiple warnings by police were given to protesters to stay on the pedestrian walkway, and that if they took roadway they would be arrested," a police spokesman said..

.....

Every city indicated by a dot is where the protests have spread. The map isn't completely upto date, though. For example, there's a protest planned fro Reno, but only Las Vegas is indicated in Nevada.

I know that the sun raises at East, what I never expected is on how long does it takes to illuminate the West.... European movements copied by these have already vanished months ago.
Only now they've realised that a bunch of idiots, paid with social benefits, are always an excellent opportunity to drive attentions away from what really counts. They even are considered originals...
Delights of democracy. Again and again and again.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

It is the banks who have created much of the present crisis. When you think of the vast numbers of people having lives ruined whilst Wall Street Barons get away with anything and often with tax-payers money they should damn well spread. After all it is those same Barons who run the country and the lot on the Hill are just their lackeys. It is a superficial system to keep the children happy.

A very apt anology. This so-called "free market" stuff has become an orwellian expression and analogous to feudal society. Only difference today is the pretense of liberty on the surface.

With that said, I'm not naive enough to believe peaceful protests alone are going to solve the problem of wall street. These protests will either get shut down or will get more forceful. I predict they will be shut down like they were in Wisconsin. Remember, the elite subculture being legally protested against are the ones that define legal for their troops of lapdogs to enforce.

The media is openly against these protests as legitimate. Remember that the last tea party protest that was covered by the MSM was a protest of 24 people. This one starting with 1000 or more (which has since grown) was ignored by the MSM for weeks. Now we have so-called moderate rags mocking them as hippies, etc.

Rather sadly xyzoneon the main thrust of your comment is true. The mass media is hardly a balanced act whether tv or newspapers as they are in the hands of the same Baronial class. That the power and money control is now in fewer and fewer hands and getting worse there is no end in sight. Now that concise power is in the smallest upper enchelons than at any time in the country's history. Banks have been allowed to get away with anything by deliberate action on their part. Theyare still in powewr whilst a million a year lose their homes, nearly half the country depends on government aid and one in seven on food stamps. Unemployment could reach 10% easily. None of this effects these financial criminals at all remember. The police will be sent out to shut protests down of course and many will wonder how this fares with the belief in rights before the law? And just think who it is that gets paid for printing the damn food stamps into the bargain! If ever a country was misused and it's people this is a terrible example. Lack of control and supervision as well as corporate greed have ruled the day.

Now the Occupy protests have been a new American export.

(CNN) -- Wall Street is more than 10,000 miles away from Melbourne, but 24-year-old Australian Alex Gard felt a kinship to the outrage expressed on the streets of Manhattan.
"It's great that people are finally standing up against the privileged few people who want to rule together," Gard said. "I wanted to stand together and say, `Enough is enough'."
Gard is one of the organizers of "Occupy Melbourne," a group that started on Facebook that now has more than 2,000 members with plans to protest on October 15 in City Square. Similar calls have sprung up around Australia: "Occupy Brisbane," "Occupy Perth," and "Occupy Sydney."

...

Some protest pages show only a few dozen will attend; others have thousands. Protest pages in Spain and Italy -- two countries hard hit by the financial crisis and subsequent European Union debt woes -- have the largest Facebook attendees so far, with 42,410 and 20,568, respectively.
Sanders: 'I applaud Wall Street protests'
"Occupy Wall Street" began on September 17 and is now spreading to cities across the U.S. The demonstrations, inspired by the Arab Spring protest movement, are against economic inequality and power vested in the top 1% income earners. Its rallying cry, "We are the 99 percent," is now being picked up by groups around the globe.
Wall St. protests grow amid debt crisis
"Occupy the London Stock Exchange" -- referring to Europe's largest bourse and the world's fourth largest exchange outside of New York and Tokyo -- has more than 6,000 followers.

What the conservative press tried to dismiss as a couple dozen loonies as spread across the globe.

"Look, Australia's not the worst place in the world, but we're seeing banks recording record profits, rental has been crazy, housing prices are going up and up," Gar said. "Indigenous people are being moved off their own land for the sake of mining companies ... everything is building up to a boiling point.

The discontent has reached the boiling point indeed, even if some of the specific issues downunder are different.

In Vegas . I'm voting for in front of the Bank of America building.

I think that at last having an Autumn Spring string in America is a very encouraging thing and long overdue for the suffering millions who must be frustrated beyond belief?

This is what happens when somebody that can articulate the Occupy Wall Street movement mistakingly gets interviewed by pretend news:



The interview never aired on Foxnews and is only available on the internet.

See, Erin Burnett from CNN. That's the kind of person you air when you slam this movement. I wonder how many of these people you skipped over the mactard interview that you aired (no offense to mactards )

Who-o boy! Can that feller articulate! Why, he's even got opposable thumbs…

And it goes to show the control there is in the land of the free which I have always said covers the media moguls as well as the financial Barons. Just 1% control the country. Boy wasn't the revolution successful!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Just 1% control the country. Boy wasn't the revolution successful!

I'm guessing you missed the bit where the protests have spread to Scotland. Why, Glasgow itself is slated for occupation, as you can see . Go ahead and sign up, because clearly your goal is social justice and not just being childish and snarky towards America. Mr, Howie, 1776 was a long time ago. Maybe you can get over it. Then again, you seem to have difficulty getting over things that happened in the 17th century

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

Why, Glasgow itself is slated for occupation {…]

Besides howie himself, who'd want to? But, seriously, let's ask the question after howie moves…
But I take it, Sang, that you mean idiots who have nothing else to do will "hang out" everywhere… Could they –had they any skills and ambition– have done something more constructive? Depends.
Are they Democrats? (They'll be discouraged…)

Off with their heads.

according to a news site the protest has spread in 1.000 US citites ( http://www.presstv.com/detail/203553.html )

Very elementary attempt to shift away from the point. In passing that link is to nothing actually. So pointless. Indeed we ceased to have an independent Stick Exchange a long time ago so ther is no Wall St in Glasgow. Considering your country was founded by the monied class and involved a third of people the minority controlling America has narrowed continually ever since. Now it is 1% controlling the money supply so you seem very ignorant of basic things. The percentage has been gradually whittled down and the poor saps over there cannot see who runs the place. It isnin't the politicians they are in hock to the big money lot. You were founded by corporate interests and the fig-leaf of taxes - odd that one as you lot are still fighting it out today! Don't you celebrate that 18th century event every year? So very relevant. You cannot get to admitting that it is money people who run your country and the leser off and poor can go to blazes. It's their own fault don't you know?! Having been founded therefor by the rich and them having controlled it ever since my commentsare relevant. OakdaleFTL etc can come out with their witticisms and rollness but it is chaff. Talk about a childish knowledge.

One thing is certain when it comes to comparison and it is never be poor in the ex-colonies it is desperate. No Welfare State, free at the point health and so on. That you blithely chose to ignore that select wee group of 1% who are doing the running is beyond me.

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

Besides howie himself, who'd want to? But, seriously, let's ask the question after howie moves…

I imagine the same type disenchanted people that having been turning out by the hundreds and thousands turning out for the other protests. This is part of what I mean by you having absolutely no concept.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Now it is 1% controlling the money supply so you seem very ignorant of basic things. The percentage has been gradually whittled down and the poor saps over there cannot see who runs the place. It isnin't the politicians they are in hock to the big money lot.

And yet the protests erupt in Britain and continental Europe as well. In fact, the poverty is some greater in the UK than in the US . I know America has serious problems, otherwise the protests wouldn't have started here in the first place. I'm questioning your reasoning that the UK is so much better than the US. You think your country isn't run by the monied class doesn't experience epidemic political corruption? I know mine does. You seem to be unable to acknowledge the corruption happens in yours.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

OakdaleFTL etc can come out with their witticisms and rollness but it is chaff.

That's all he's capable of.

This is been brewing for a while.



In this case, Bank of America would not allow customers to enter the bank because they intended to withdraw their money.

Ersatz Tea Party knockoff from the other end of the spectrum. My money is on the heavy involvement of SEIU et al. This seems like a "hey, look over there!" tactic from Democrat-leaning groups who know that people are angry with Democrats over the sucky economy.

It won't matter. The Democrats are going to be slaughtered yet again next November overall, although I wouldn't be surprised to see Obama re-elected.

The protests in Europe, under the justification of poverty lead by the actual crisis, are basically of anarchist inspiration. Occupations always were the main anarchist "weapon" together with circus... basically it's a party, let's dance and bother the bourgeois. Original anarchists were different though, they used bombs and regicides quite often.
People seems to give them too much attention, after few weeks they return to the comfort of their homes. And poor people keeps on being poor but everything is alright, no more "occupations".

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

And yet the protests erupt in Britain and continental Europe as well. In fact, the poverty is some greater in the UK than in the US . I know America has serious problems, otherwise the protests wouldn't have started here in the first place.

The protests are spreading here too, that is true. But as a direct consequence of U.S companies and banks manufacturing the same economic problems in the UK and the EU as well as there.
And its not like we need the U.S to export us protesting. We had protesters just a few week ago turn out in the thousands protesting high tuition fees and lower salaries.

I'm questioning your reasoning that the UK is so much better than the US. You think your country isn't run by the monied class doesn't experience epidemic political corruption? I know mine does. You seem to be unable to acknowledge the corruption happens in yours.

It is a different kind of corruption. In the U.K and Europe its also on a much smaller scale, and illegal.
The U.S practically invented legal bribing on a epic scale, and it seems more accepted culturally there too.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

People seems to give them too much attention

They only got more attention here, the U.S media seem more ignorant to them

Originally posted by fanfaron:

The Democrats are going to be slaughtered yet again next November overall,

I'm not sure why you feel a party that has driven Congressional approval to 13% is going to slaughter the Democrats.

The Occupy Wall Street Movement is just weak excuse of a movement.....like the one I took this morning---a lot of gas, & very little substance!

What an utterly pathetic joke, nothing more than a diversion instigated by operatives within the Obama Administration to take focus off their 'Leaders' multitude of failures & low polling until after the elections-------professionally coordinated by Organized Labor, SEIU, & bankrolled by the deep pockets of the extreme left.

How pathetic is it?

Well, some have said this little camp-out represents the 'Future Leaders of America''.

'Future Leaders of America'!!???!!

How Obscene!

That load should have been collectively shot in the sink!

If this is the future-------Richie, Fonzie, Chachi, Potsie, & Ralph where the bloody hell are ya!?!


This guy puts things in prospective.....






Better yet, this amazing article simply lays it out smack-dab balls-on dead center.


It's definitely worth a read...........

One of the more notable events in the somewhat farcical history of the Occupy Wall Street disturbance is when the group planned a march of about ten blocks from their Zuccotti Park location to police headquarters in lower Manhattan, but got lost along the way. The march quickly fizzled and dissipated, with many participants going their separate ways and a few stalwarts poking their way back through the streets trying to find the park. This slapstick comedy has come to symbolize the group, what it stands for and how well-conceived their plans have been. Further, the group has never actually protested or occupied Wall Street. In an attempt at a movement such as this, one may want to at least insure the actual accomplishment of their namesake.


As the Occupy Wall Street disturbance crudely taps the emotional angst of a younger demographic, it struggles to be recognized as a movement. The protests have been filled with emotional pleas for relief from greed and oppression by a nebulous group referred to as “the system”, “Wall Street”, “banks” and “greedy corporations.” Rarely are individuals or individual instances of corporate misconduct cited in the protests. The OWS outcry against the excesses of greed and injustice does not appear to distinguish between good and bad, it simply aims to demonize symbols of wealth by targeting everyone involved.


Despite the intense media coverage, most Americans still don’t understand the message of the cause. Beyond understanding there also appears to be apathy towards a desire to revolt or to join the OWS cause. OWS has largely been a phenomenon within large urban areas with large student populations, mostly white, middle-class, in late teens or twenties and academics. And while a large number of Americans from all social classes are feeling the bite of tough economic times, the OWS protests do not show any significant indications that they have penetrated the hearts and minds of a statistically meaningful portion of the population.




The blind anger towards the financial markets (and the individual men and women who work in them) as if they were a single, monolithic organism comes across as angst that is raging against rage. This behavior is what gives rise to the “Romper Room Revolution” moniker that has been hung around the neck of this disturbance. Dismissing the individuals who have given their lives to their occupations as bankers and brokers is an American tragedy being perpetuated by “the angry young mob” and fueled by special interest groups, specifically organized labor. When organized labor ranks are taken from the crowd estimates, the average numbers are in the low hundreds…not exactly a movement.



The group is essentially being cast (or casting themselves) as “anger and angst looking for a cause”. Early clashes with police have subsided recently and demonstrations have been relatively without incident. This may be a welcome sign for residents and city officials (as well as protesters), but the ensuing peace is taking its toll on the ranks of the group’s members. Without the controversy of violent opposition by police, the group seems to have lost its drawing power. Misguided stunts such as announcing a major rock group appearance have also compromised the group’s credibility, as well as the influence of organized labor that are being seen as trying to “hijack” the cause.


OWS also has a radical positioning statement that is clearly out of context with their cause. According to the Occupy Wall Street Web site, it draws reference to the Arab Spring for its inspiration. Implying that the hardships faced by American youth or its citizens are even remotely similar to the plight of some Arab Spring countries is simply offensive to human dignity. OWS is fighting for privilege and emotional discharge; the people of Arab Spring Nations are fighting for liberty and life. There is no comparison on any level. The perpetuation of this comparison is an affront to decency. I wonder how many of these self-proclaimed freedom-fighters have ever read Dostoyevsky’s Crime and Punishment. Judging by the lack of moral accountability of the statements made by OWS, the leaderless ghosts who scribed their mission seem to have missed that reading assignment.

The result is a small army of Raskolnikovs running-amok on America’s streets.


Over the weekend, 24 people lost their lives in Egyptian protests. Now is a time of reckoning for the OWS crowd; “are you willing to die or shed blood for your cause?” It may have been an unfortunate and ill-conceived comparison to the Arab Spring, in a moment of self grandeur and self pity that this comparison was drawn. In any case, this group needs to understand that the consequences of “revolution” are often painful and ugly. Throwing words around like “uprising”, “resistance”, and “revolution” may appear to be stylish, but they have profound implications…implications that clearly have not been thought out.


Many of the protesters simply have no understanding of how Wall Street works and no frame of reference to understand what our banking system does for the ordinary individual; they are just too young to have had this type of financial experience. The local bakery, the dry cleaner, the new startup technology company and a myriad of small businesses all rely on the banking system to gain access to capital to start a business. Families just starting out their lives together are still getting mortgages to start their American dreams.


Up to 80% of all small businesses in America fail in the first two years of operation, yet the big bad bankers continue to loan money to this group that makes up the backbone of our economy. Call me crazy, but that just does not sound like greed to me. The Romper Room Revolution is comprised primarily of “twenty something’s” with less than 10 years work experience. Yes, there are older (and younger) partisans but the average is in the early twenties. Many of today’s protesters were either too young to vote in 2010 or simply chose not to vote. Only 20% (1 in 5) of eligible voters aged 18-29 bothered to even vote in 2010. I am struggling to understand how this group is in any way justified to make the claims that they have been excluded. Perhaps they got distracted by their IPhone or video games on election day, I am not sure, but I am sure that 80% were MIA.


These are difficult times, but in the cycle of economics they are not uncommon. Whether we hold our breath and stomp our feet or engage in a constructive solution is an individual choice. During the housing boom of 1995-2006, when nearly 10 million people enjoyed low-cost refinancing to tap their burgeoning home equity, there was no reason for revolution, was there? It was a party, and virtually everyone was invited.

Now that there is a terrible hangover, this group wants to hang the bartender.

OWS is a sham......a mere temper tantrum....& the other 'Occupy' disturbances are no better.

Can't wait for these mindless & pointless lil children to mature. Till then, they should learn how to channel their blind anger more constructively to embody some legitimate purpose & direction.

Maybe they should go back on campus, & take up some Anger Management to enhance their collective Interpersonal Skills.

Then again, maybe just growing up will sort them all out

I do firstly have to say that we all suffer in thiseconomic downturn but the USA I still say is worse than here. We at least have a Welfare State rather than mases of peole having to live on charity handouts at the level across the pnd. Sanguinemoon should take stick of that. What makes the situation with the Wall Street occupations movement more striking is that in a land that has for ever blared about being the greatest country on Earth, full of freedom, rights and all that superficial ballyhoo...isn't. Everything flies in the face of the brained in propaganda. How come in sucha haven of those traditonal values has it come that 1% control the place? The protestors are right in saying there should be financial Barons in the dock and if need be in the damned jail. After all millions are losing their homes, thorwn out of work and penniles but that suer lot get off with just about anything. I am in fact exceedingly glad that America is having is having an "Autumn Spring" like the rest of us here in the normal world. It is high time and at last, at last, it is sinking through that they are led by the noses by the corporates.

It is all very well for Smileyfaze to sneer at the movement as it it was some wee crowd on a corner and use some passing incident as an endorsement of his view. Almost understandable in a way as the media has for the main part tried to ignore the mas protests and have to be dragged to give effective reporting of it. You would think this was the 1950's and the people were being "un-American"? As for some of the police action it is deplorable. I watched an officer in NYC -obviously a ranked individual as he was wearing a white shirt not blue, hammering a truncheon at a person as if he was banging a beam into place on a roof. It was thuggishly brutal. Makes you wonder about that. Protect and serve...eh?

The present establishment and corporate especially the 1% who run the place (and Sanguinemoon and indeed Smileyfaze both don't seem to be too fazed about that one!) have almost destroyed capitalism, misused the genuine belief of the people in their country and shafted them. An Why is it okay to ignore the tiny percentage of controllers?? Anything that re-balances and gives hope is a good thing. Hopefully it will increase and one last thing. The country is not only divided in it's vultures on the Hill but bitterly so as a nation.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

We at least have a Welfare State

So you can spent that money accusing others of doing it....

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Originally posted by rjhowie:

We at least have a Welfare State

So you can spent money accusing others of doing it....

It is impossible for the Government to give anyone anything until it has been taken from someone else.

Socialism

Income Redistribution, or leeching off the life's blood of another's labor.

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

It is impossible for the Government to give anyone anything until it has been taken from someone else.

The right wing TP anarchist in opposition to the left wing Occupy anarchists...

In fact the "Government", meaning the State, has several functions, as redistribution of wealth, what you call "take from someone else"... It has others as security, justice or foreign diplomacy just to name a few...
How interesting how right wing in the US can be so anarchist, denying the role of the State. Completely different from European right wing, everything for the State nothing against... the fascist motto.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

It is impossible for the Government to give anyone anything until it has been taken from someone else.

The right wing TP anarchist in opposition to the left wing Occupy anarchists...

In fact the "Government", meaning the State, has several functions, as redistribution of wealth, what you call "take from someone else"... It has others as security, justice or foreign diplomacy just to name a few...
How interesting how right wing in the US can be so anarchist, denying the role of the State. Completely different from European right wing, everything for the State nothing against... the fascist motto.

an·ar·chist /ˈænɚˌkɪst/ noun
plural an·ar·chists
: a person who believes that government and laws are not necessary

I do believe that government & laws are necessary....therefore your pigeon-holing is grossly inaccurate.

I just believe that Government's power to govern is strictly limited by the powers authorized, derived, & enumerated from within the written will of the people---The U.S. Constitution.

You obviously believe in a more liberal version of government...an unlimited government----------------Totalitarianism, where one isn't governed, one is ruled.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

It is the banks who have created much of the present crisis.

1.- What about the failed economic policies of the past 3 Presidential Administrations?
2.-Who forced those millions of people to accept home mortgages that their income couldn't support, who didn't deserve them, & who would have never qualified for loans in a realistic lending system supposedly being watched by Congressional oversight committees?
3.- Who didn't care what the house cost because the Government was willing to subsidize their 0% down mortgage? Now, when those homes suddenly became 'upside-down' -- worth less than the were financed for -- who stepped in to assist these mortgage holders? Where were the lawmakers who authorized these loans, via loose legislation, in the first place?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

When you think of the vast numbers of people having lives ruined whilst Wall Street Barons get away with anything and often with tax-payers money they should damn well spread.

Who forced these people to invest their money in medium to high risk investments?
What does the word risk mean to you? Does it mean --- Jump in fella, there's no sharks, the water ain't deep, & it's just fine?
Who, in light of all the handwriting on the wall, told the people they were supposed to be protecting via regulatory oversight that their investments were safe, & the financial institutions were on sound solid ground?
Then when the shit hit the fan, who turned their backs on the people, & denied ever saying everything was honker-dorey?
The banks?
I think not.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

After all it is those same Barons who run the country and the lot on the Hill are just their lackeys. It is a superficial system to keep the children happy.

And the political & financial system, serving just 59 Million people (as opposed to 300+ million), is any better, or just might it be that they haven't gotten caught at it,,,,,,, yet?
White as the driven snow over there? I think not.
Immune to scandal? I think not.
Your Government on sound financial ground?
Don't bother..............We all know that answer!

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

Then congress and the President Bush bailed them out (yes, SF and company, that was Bush) Now there are massive foreclosures, etc. Around here, there's something like 45,000 unsold homes, many of the foreclosed; others not technically foreclosed yet, but people had to walk away from their property (just as my neighbor across the street.)

Your right, the outgoing President, Bush, did just that.................Oh, but who was it that increased the amount of bailouts, & then subsidized the very same people with more lavish stimulus------------stimulus that didn't work to create jobs or bolster the economy?
Irregardless of the facts, & ignoring the previous failure of his administrative policy, who is it that wants billions/trillions more to do exactly the same?
And who all the while is instigating Class Warfare with derisive rhetoric, & by enlisting ignorant mobs to supply his failed administration a smoke screen until Nov. 2012?

George Bush?

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

And who all the while is instigating Class Warfare with derisive rhetoric, & by enlisting ignorant mobs to supply his failed administration a smoke screen until Nov. 2012?

George Bush?

Not GWB. He's been remarkably quiet for for an ex-President. However, the Right has been screaming about class warfare for years and its just not coming around to biting him on the ass.

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

I do believe that government & laws are necessary....therefore your pigeon-holing is grossly inaccurate.

Here, I agree with you. Neither the majority of the tp members nor the Occupiers are anarchists. Just because one hits the street in protest doesn't make one an anarchist and for him to say that shows ignorance. Have you noticed that the Occupiers are protests much of the same things as the tp, though. The Occupiers seem to have better memories of a few short years ago, though

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

Oh, but who was it that increased the amount of bailouts, & then subsidized the very same people with more lavish stimulus------------stimulus that didn't work to create jobs or bolster the economy?

I know this. For this recession, every known measure for the government to improve the economy has failed, which are to increase government spending, reduce taxes and apply monetary policy. The problem with the bailout of the banks and why people are protesting on Wall Street, as opposed to in front of GM, Chrysler and Ford (yes, Ford did a bailouts is that the banks and Wall street were screwing the people over before the bailouts and afterwards as well.

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

Where were the lawmakers who authorized these loans, via loose legislation, in the first place?

The lawmakers didn't make make those loans, and the subprime mortgages were actually in violation the Community Reinstatement Act, not the creation of the act. That's contrary to right-wing mythology. Most of the 45,000 vacant homes in the Las Vegas area, in fact, had nothing to do with it and were sound at the time. A little more on this

Now a little more on one of the factors this did cause the meltdown

Synthetic derivatives are created for the casino-like environment on Wall Street, and are generally designed to help third parties, like hedge funds, make bets. Such third parties usually have no involvement at all in the existing loans from which they are structured. The bets being made are not essentially different than betting on a poker game or at a craps table. The primary purpose is to enrich or impoverish parties to the transaction, and the derivatives dealer who creates the opportunity, not to assist mortgage borrowers.

The key to understanding this is to realize that a synthetic derivative is outside the chain of contract. It has no effect upon the existing credit obligation. The original borrower has no obligation at all on the derivative. It is solely a contract between two third parties. The only connection is that bets are being taken for or against the existing loans. Derivatives, in the abstract, are gambling contracts that were immune to state anti-gambling laws by virtue of various acts of Congress, obtained by bankers years ago.

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

.....Have you noticed that the Occupiers are protests much of the same things as the tp, though.......

Well, the only damn similarity I see is that they protest, period.....end of similarity!
Short of that, what they are protesting about is an open ended plethora of unknowns depending on who's being asked, & what day it is.

To me they are merely sorry lots of anti-capitalist, anti-American, whining human tragedy's who's sole desire is having something owned by someone else, that they have absolutely no right too, but they somehow firmly believe it's owed to them.

If they want wealth others have worked for they should go about getting it the old fashioned way,,,,they should set out to earn it rather than playing the poor, poor me 'Victim Card'!

Instead of camping out & futilely protesting the Bull of Wall Street, they all should be protesting down in Washington D.C., because the majority of their reported woes can be directly traced to the failed policies of the occupants of1600 Pennsylvania Blvd., & their cohorts in the Capitol Building.

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

I do believe that government & laws are necessary....therefore your pigeon-holing is grossly inaccurate.

They also do it. So it seems that my "pigeonholing" is not so inaccurate as that. Anarchists always need governments and laws, the leftists for being fed the rightists for feeling secure.
Any difference between them?
If you want to differentiate yourself I'm afraid that you'll have to show much more than that.

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

You obviously believe in a more liberal version of government...an unlimited government----------------Totalitarianism, where one isn't governed, one is ruled.

What a confusion there. Liberal means the opposite, a non intervening. Laissez faire, laissez passer.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

What a confusion there. Liberal means the opposite, a non intervening. Laissez faire, laissez passer.

Sadly my friend, that is not a confusion, not deliberately at least (or is it?). It is how the word "liberal" and "socialism" was twisted out of meaning in America. The extremist right in the U.S, like our friend Smiley above, even use it as insult for people of the center right (laughably called 'Democrats or Liberals' there).
The truth is, there are no Liberals in America. There's only right, central right, and faaaaaaaaar right like Smiley (which we would call Fascists or Iranians here)

Originally posted by Muttsfan:

The truth is, there are no Liberals in America.

That's what remains to be seen. The failure and corruption of both the the GOP and the Democrats might have awoken a sleeping in giant in the form of the American Left.

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

Bull of Wall Street, they all should be protesting down in Washington D.C., because the majority of their reported woes can be directly traced to the failed policies of the occupants of1600 Pennsylvania Blvd., & their cohorts in the Capitol Building.

See? Told you. There's another point of agreement. 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and the plundering ragamuffins have fail in the policies.

The trouble with the right in America viz. Smileyfaze is that anything outside of their domain is screamed as Socialist and stirring up a rampant over patriotism that yells you are a traitor. Small wonder the place is so polarised and deeply divided. The wealthy and cumfy off show scant regard for the poor and many of the millions (note, millions) of new poor used to be middle class, managerial et al and worked and supported their country. Now they are written off it seems by Republicans. TP people etc.How this equates with the tub thumping of the right is beyond comprehension in the real world outside. If people outside the cumfy zone of Smileyfaze and Co are pigeon-holed like this the divisions will only get deeper. It is the cumfy who are so outspoken about being loayal and flag waving then put a donation to a charity box or soup kitchen as a conscience solve.

I have stil to find Smileyfaze explaining how a country so strong on values, democracy, reasonable capitalism has seen the control diminish and diminish over the decades to that 1% Howdo principles justify or explain that one away. Instead it is ignored. Once more I will ask for an explanation and say yet again. If ever a decent people were conned, robbed and badly done too it is Americans. The financial Barons are immune whilst those millions join the queues for shelters and food kitchens. Damnable.

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

Bull of Wall Street, they all should be protesting down in Washington D.C., because the majority of their reported woes can be directly traced to the failed policies of the occupants of1600 Pennsylvania Blvd., & their cohorts in the Capitol Building.

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

See? Told you. There's another point of agreement. 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and the plundering ragamuffins have fail in the policies.

Now all you got to do is give them a coherent message & have George Soros buy 'em all a GPS, then teach them how to lock it in to DC, where it matters...it ain't Wall Street it's DC.

P.S. If they don't want to use a GPS because it's a tool maintained by the Imperialistic Armed Forces of the Capitalistic States of America, then hand them a freekin' (recycled) paper map. Don't want to traumatize the mindless lil puppies now do we.

EDIT: Geez, I almost forgot...we don't want 'em gettin' lost now do we....so make sure you place a big red X marking where you want them to go.

Use RED ONLY....you know they all have a affinity fer red!

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

Now all you got to do is give them a coherent message & have George Soros buy 'em all a GPS

With your irrational fear and hatred of George Soros, you're in good company Smiley.
Every communists, and socialist in Europe hate him profoundly too. The USSR back in the day even contemplated assassinating him many times.

Originally posted by Muttsfan:

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

Now all you got to do is give them a coherent message & have George Soros buy 'em all a GPS

Originally posted by Muttsfan:

With your irrational fear and hatred of George Soros........

Yeah....."ignore that man behind the curtain" sounds familiar & seems fitting here..

Gotta say, the pic that Sang posted was very interesting.

In that pic, every state in the South has participated with the exceptions of Mississippi, Arkansas and South Carolina.

I've not been keeping up with this movement, but I gotta say, geez, not since bussing and integration has the South been this active about something.

Interesting. Will be keeping up with this movement.

Anyone want to make a bet that eventually the TP and the OWS movements meet up and have a battle royale?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

The trouble with the right in America viz. Smileyfaze is that anything outside of their domain is screamed as Socialist and stirring up a rampant over patriotism that yells you are a traitor. Small wonder the place is so polarised and deeply divided. The wealthy and cumfy off show scant regard for the poor and many of the millions (note, millions) of new poor used to be middle class, managerial et al and worked and supported their country. Now they are written off it seems by Republicans. TP people etc.How this equates with the tub thumping of the right is beyond comprehension in the real world outside. If people outside the cumfy zone of Smileyfaze and Co are pigeon-holed like this the divisions will only get deeper. It is the cumfy who are so outspoken about being loayal and flag waving then put a donation to a charity box or soup kitchen as a conscience solve.

I have stil to find Smileyfaze explaining how a country so strong on values, democracy, reasonable capitalism has seen the control diminish and diminish over the decades to that 1% Howdo principles justify or explain that one away. Instead it is ignored. Once more I will ask for an explanation and say yet again. If ever a decent people were conned, robbed and badly done too it is Americans. The financial Barons are immune whilst those millions join the queues for shelters and food kitchens. Damnable.

Sorry you, & the rest of the 'real world' feel that way RJ....I've yet to hear mainstream Americans express your same opinions outside of damning the occupants of DC.

Maybe when more of your ilk move here it'll happen. Ya think?

See, it seems Americans know what's important to Americans more-so than ya'll.

We don't need or want the 'real world' to Nanny us, but thank you very much for your concern though. And if it makes ya'll feel better, you can continue to impress yerselves.

Keep on keepin' on

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

Use RED ONLY....you know they all have a affinity fer red!

Too true, Americans seem to have a weird affinity for Red.
Red Blood, Red Apples, Red Skins, Red Scare, Red Slippers, Red States, Red Republicans....

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

Yeah....."ignore that man behind the curtain" sounds familiar & seems fitting here..

Sadly Frank Morgan has been dead a long time my dear Smiley. But you may be right, we should keep him alive in our hearts! That way he will never be truly gone!

Anarchy in America?


Seems well organized and democratic to me.

But you've got to admit, mum, the gist of the thread and the "movement" is captured succinctly…

[edit] Incremental fixing?