Opera Mail checks messages at PC wakeup before a user logs in

When Opera 11.51 is left open with multiple tabs before PC goes to Standby, at wakeup Opera Mail immediately rushes to check and scroll on screen new email messages and feeds, even when Low Bandwidth Mode is selected. As a result, any user can see new email topics, click and read new emails of another user at PC wakeup without login in, despite "Login at Wakeup" option is selected in Windows.

What's even more troublesome, Opera also checks open in Tabs documents immediately at wakeup rushing to save them on a system hard drive, when system is not ready yet (in particular a system with multiple hard drives, were some HDs are read and mounted slower than others at wakeup) and a user has not logged in, resulting in frequent PC Blue Screens at wakeup and a system request to run Check Disk utility at next Windows reboot.

Its obvious, Opera should delay email checkup and open pages update until the user logged in after PC wake-up. How to fix?

Originally posted by arnymars:

When Opera 11.51 is left open with multiple tabs before PC goes to Standby, at wakeup Opera Mail immediately rushes to check and scroll on screen new email messages and feeds, even when Low Bandwidth Mode is selected. As a result, any user can see new email topics, click and read new emails of another user at PC wakeup without login in, despite "Login at Wakeup" option is selected in Windows.

If you have "don't require a password" for "password protection on wakeup" in windows, when the computer wakes up, the screen won't be locked and you'll automatically be logged back into your profile where Opera is still running etc. That's expected.

If you want it to require a password, set it to "require a password" so no one can mess with the computer until they log in. If you set this option, no one can touch Opera without logging in. (Or, are you saying that Opera shows the email notification pop-up even in this case an then clicking it does something?)

I don't understand the problem you're having. Sounds like things are working as they should given the info you've given.

Originally posted by arnymars:

What's even more troublesome, Opera also checks open in Tabs documents immediately at wakeup rushing to save them on a system hard drive, when system is not ready yet (in particular a system with multiple hard drives, were some HDs are read and mounted slower than others at wakeup) and a user has not logged in, resulting in frequent PC Blue Screens at wakeup and a system request to run Check Disk utility at next Windows reboot.Its obvious, Opera should delay email checkup and open pages update until the user logged in after PC wake-up. How to fix?

Not sure about this. Are some of the hard drives connected via USB or something? Maybe check your power management settings to make sure the usb connections are always on so they don't take so long to reinitialize after wakeup. There's an advanced setting in power management about turning off hard disks. You might want to set it to "never".

I'd search google for posts on hard drives not working right after wakeup and computers freezing after wakeup and such. One post that is partially related has some suggestions in it. I saw some others ones saying to update the chipset drivers for the motherboard.

Thanks!

As clearly stated in my 1-st post, Opera displays email and feed notification pop-ups at PC wake-up, even if a user has not logged in (when "password protection on wakeup" is ON). It should not happen. Opera should check new emails and update open webpages only after the account holder logged in who left Opera running before PC Standby. Its obvious and very annoying security bug.

As to frequent blue screens at PC Wakeup, they ONLY happen when Opera is left running with multiple Tabs open before Standby. If Opera was Exited before Standby, no blue screens at Wakeup. I also run Power Efficiency Diagnostics as suggested in a post in the above linked thread. It shows a problem related to Opera:

Platform Timer Resolution:Outstanding Timer Request
A program or service has requested a timer resolution smaller than the platform maximum timer resolution.
Requested Period 30000
Current Timer Resolution 25000
Requesting Process ID 3064
Requesting Process Path \Device\HarddiskVolume3\Program Files (x86)\Opera 11.00 internal\opera.exe

Not sure, if that causes the blue screens. But it looks, Opera rushes to update open webpages even before a user logs in or the system fully wakes up from Standby. Since RAM and HD might not be ready yet to read & right & synch data, it causes errors resulting in blue screen even after Win login screen normally shows up (i.e. some data read from RAM). Opera should wait with updating open webpages until the user has logged in, or a set time period - 5 min after wakeup. There is no rush to update webpages immediately. On the contrary, attempts to update webpages at that time result in AV & Firewall block all activity before the system fully wakes-up, and significantly delay PC readiness with screen being unaccessible for a long while. In other words, Opera prematurely interferes with normal PC wakeup process thus delaying PC readiness and leading to blue screens and long reloads of system state from HD (if Hybrid Sleep was ON).

As to delays with starting some HDs, modern Mobos have such delays programmed in to lower startup load on PSU that allows to use green PSUs with lower power rating, and excludes disk errors while reading a disk service zone at spin up due to PSU voltage drop at starting multiple disks simultaneously. Also, PSU would serve longer with voltage drop within allowed tolerances if not frequently overloaded at startups. Hence, starting multiple disks with delays is normal. Also, different HD makes require different spin up time for readiness, so initial voltage drop can delay their readiness even without BIOS support for spin up delays. Its true for SATA & IDE HDs, not only externals. And is not relevant here, since without Opera left running before going to Standby there are NO blue screens and Check Disk requests here.

Whats important here: no need for any Opera activity during going to Standby & Wakeup & System Login time until full system readiness. Period....

Originally posted by arnymars:

As clearly stated in my 1-st post,

Note that I can barely understand your English. Many sentences are broken and you're not describing things in a way I'm familiar with (like things weren't translated to English properly). For example, I only now see that "check and scroll on screen new email messages and feeds" is probably your way of talking about the new message notification pop-up/tooltip at the bottom right of the screen.

Perhaps the language-specific forums might be better.

Originally posted by arnymars:

Whats important here: no need for any Opera activity during going to Standby & Wakeup & System Login time until full system readiness. Period....

Afaik, Opera has no options to configure any of this. So, you'll need to file a bug report.

Basically, I just wanted to report that the cached file table index resumed to memory at system wakeup doesn't seem to match the actual file table on a system drive due to Opera activity during system wakeup. That often results in blue screen, and running chkdsk then refreshes the index or deletes orphaned files bringing the system back to life. Again, Opera should not run its routings from RAM ahead of the OS horse, no need for it whatsoever, it just opens a security hole and adds regular extreme inconvenience.

And it seems to be namely email checkups at wakeup that cause the blue screen. I created a new Opera profile on a non-system drive, and blue screens stopped occurring. When I reverted only Mail folder back to the system drive, blue screens restarted again. I didn't try the same with Cache folders, but the effect will probably be the same. I disconnected all drives except one system drive, and the blue screens continued to occur regardless.

I moved Profile and Local folders to a non-system drive, but just found the blue screens continue at wakeup, simply less frequent. This time the non-system drive, where both folders were moved to, required running CHKDSK, and the system can't wakeup or even reboot without chkdsk, despite the system drive didn't require it.

So, basically, I found prohibitive leaving Opera open with multiple Tabs and Mail active, when going to Standby, since it will likely start crashing Windows upon wakeup because it keeps updating open pages and checking email accounts after Standby command is activated in Windows, and also before Wakeup is fully completed. This is a major inconvenience - it pollutes drives, creates data mismatch, and forces you to exit Opera before Standby, and relaunch it after Wakeup, thus sharply increasing web traffic and dragging time to make webpages accessible again.

While its obviously a bug, I wonder if creating Symbolic Links or Junction Points to Opera profile folders on another drive instead of using Opera profile folders on a system drive can make blue screens less frequent? Good app for this is Link Shell Extension.

Never had these kind of problems when returning from standby with Opera opened.

Have you checked your hardware? 99,9% of bsod are caused by them or problematic drivers. I don't think that Opera's activity could cause bsod by itself.

That's an interesting statement: "Have you checked your hardware". Hope, you mean something particular, such as devices under suspicion and the methods known to work well in identifying the root cause of such problems.

If you activate Windows "password protection on wakeup", you'll see and hear that Opera loaded in RAM checks for new mail before you have a chance to login, or before your HD had a chance to spin up and report readiness for read & write. It starts checking for new mail and changing RAM pages immediately after login screen (which is read from memory) shows up. It often results in AV activity and PC slow down, since Opera interferes with vital system wakeup processes and seems to behave like an unknown system process jumping to the web which is not connected yet and temp blocked by Firewall. What happen after that depends indeed on your hardware. Your file structure on disk becomes different from file structure in RAM, and the wakeup process is interrupted.

If you have a single HD with single OS partition on it, and no any USB devices connected - your result may be different from mine, since I've several HDs and a few USB devices connected, so it takes MORE time for OS to wakeup the PC. All I know, if I exit Opera before Standby, there are no blue screens at Wakeup. And each blue screen happens for exact same reason - disk is corrupted. And its always the disk, where Opera Local folder is saved, i.e. when I moved that folder to another disk, that disk becomes corrupted after wakeup. It happens once in every 3-4 wakeups.

Originally posted by arnymars:

If you activate Windows "password protection on wakeup", you'll see and hear that Opera loaded in RAM checks for new mail before you have a chance to login, or before your HD had a chance to spin up and report readiness for read & write.

I don't have the "password protection on wakeup" enabled but i think Opera will behave the same way being it enabled or not. And as i said, Opera does not cause any problems.

But i can test it with "password protection" enabled.

Originally posted by arnymars:

If you have a single HD with single OS partition on it, and no any USB devices connected - your result may be different from mine, since I've several HDs and a few USB devices connected, so it takes MORE time for OS to wakeup the PC.

I have 4 internal HDs, 1 external HD (connected via usb), keyboard, printer and headset also connect on usb.

After changing Opera Profile and Local folders with hard links (NTFS Junction Points) pointing to same folders on a non-system drive, at wakeup Opera still tries to check mail and update open webpages, but at times gives the error: "The file dcache4.url is corrupt. Please run chkdisk." It shows again, Opera tries to do its staff before the system is ready from wakeup, so NTFS can't process junction points properly at that time, and mismatch occurs btw RAM pages and Opera cache on hard drive. To point again, Opera should not attempt to do anything at least 5 min after system wakeup, giving a chance to priority processes and AV & FW to finish wakeup procedure without competing with Opera for resources.

I agree that Opera should defer any online activity until the user is logged in when "password protection on wakeup" is enabled.
However, your theory regarding a mismatch between RAM and disks doesn't hold water, that simply can't happen. When Windows resumes the suspended applications, the whole Win32 system is fully functional again. Even if hard disks *were* still busy initializing, the cache would have to wait a bit before flushing things, but stuff like that happens at the kernel level and completely transparently to applications. If you get bluescreens, that is definitely a returning-from-standby driver bug. It might be triggered by something that Opera does, but it's nothing we can fix - except possibly as a side effect of the online activity deferral I mentioned initially.

Important here is undisputed in my case fact (verified multiple times again and again), that when Opera is exited before Standby, there are no blue screens at PC wakeup. If Opera is not exited, blue screens are practically guaranteed. Sad thing is, when IE is left open before Standby, it does not result in blue screens at wakeup.

As to returning from standby driver bug, could you be a bit more specific, what I should look for to find the cause, what particular device to check, what diagnostic soft to use. I do prefer to leave Opera open before standby, since opening multiple Tabs at each wakeup is time and traffic consuming. So please, make the Opera do NOTHING for 5 min after wakeup, regardless whether Password Protection on Wakeup is enabled or not. Its normal, most people check emails each 15-30 min, and your own default settings for open webpages update is 5 min. No rush to do it during wakeup and related AV & FW activity. Especially keeping in mind, you offer Low Bandwidth Mode for M2 for such reasons, and at wakeup many system processes and AV rush to the net, so its the worst time for Opera to interfere with them and cause writing data back to disk (I know its driver ).

See also this MS article and Related Content listed in it. I'll try using these methods to ID the blue screens cause.

So please, make the Opera do NOTHING for 5 min after wakeup, regardless whether Password Protection on Wakeup is enabled or not

ok, but it should be optional and/or configurable.

Btw, have you tried a new clean install of Opera?

Please read the developer's reply. He said, Opera currently doesn't wait after wakeup. What clean install can change in that department? Btw, when an extra profile is created, that would amount to clean install. See also the links in my above post. I'll try Opera 12 instead.

I'll have to test but i'm quite sure that lots of programs do not wait after wakeup either and do stuff even if you are not logged in (when password protection is enabled).

A clean install would hlpe check if something corrupted on your current installation is causing the problem.

An btw, i was talking about the time to wait after the wakeup. 5 minuts is too much, about 30 seconds or 1 minute should be enough.

I've done some teste.

PC was on standby and i made it wake by clicking the mouse. The password screen appeared, i've waited about 2 minutes and then i've logged in.

Mirc and Trillian were (re)connected and running, so as Opera.

I've tested a newly installed Opera 12 Alpha without Mail Client activated. Leaving it open with multiple Tabs before going to Standby caused no blue screens at wakeup. Will see, if adding Mail Client accounts will change the outcome.

Now I added several M2 accounts and Feeds. First problem is, when Opera restarts, M2 jumps right away to check mail despite Low Bandwidth Mode is selected in Prefs. It grossly slows down opening multiple pages from RAM, save when exiting previous session. So, its obvious, M2 violates the spec by checking mail immediately on Opera startup, and it results in extra delay in access to pages. Additionally, the proc is busy, since AV checks downloaded mail traffic. If M2 waited until all pages from a previous session are open, it can then check the mail while a user's browsing pages. M2 delay in 1-2 min will make Opera ready to use a lot faster.

Now I'll see, what happens at wakeup with M2 active.

I added a few Gmail accounts to Opera 12 M2 and tested this clean install. Despite M2 seems to have some changes in its files structure since Opera 11, the same problem re-occurs:

when Opera 12 is left open before going to Standby, PC will frequently go to blue screen at Wakeup. On some occasions it can then recover from HD after reboot if Hybrid Sleep was ON, on others it requires to run CHKDSK at reboot, spanning to several partitions on the physical drive where Opera profile is kept.

So its obvious, M2 activity during PC wakeup results in regular damage to file system on the drive, where Opera 12 profile is kept. Nothing changed to the better, the bug remains.

Have you tried testing on another computer just to make sure the problem is caused by Opera?

It doesn't make sense based on the above discussion, because specifics of hardware can make it more or less frequent or probable. For example, you say to not have the same issue with your hardware, but it doesn't mean it will not show up with a different hardware, especially given MS articles and fixes linked above.

What's important from all this discussion, there is absolutely no need for M2 to start checking mail and feeds before the PC is fully waken up and the user has logged in. Its easy to determine, when the PC is waken up, by simply watching processor activity - it will drop soon after. Even easier to set 3-5 min timer. I don't see any advantages for M2 to rush checking multiple mail accounts, since a user would usually leave Opera open before standby to avoid re-opening a large Opera session after wakeup. Hence, access to the web pages is the 1st priority after wakeup, but mail can be checked later, while the user browses web pages. Especially if Low Bandwidth setting is selected, as this pref was specifically added to allow assign M2 lower priority. Now Opera breaks own spec by pushing M2 ahead of the horse despite that pref is selected. Undisputed priority at wakeup is OS, hardware, antivirus, firewall. Everything else MUST wait.

This reminded me the bad habit of many unpopular programs to place shortcuts everywhere, and start with PC startup "for immediate readiness", despite a user may need such program merely once a month if ever, and never asked it to start with PC to begin with. I couldn't find the way to shut-up M2 for a few minutes, so aggressively its pushed. Why should I damage my PC regularly due to Opera strive for marketing stance? If one is in rush to check emails before full wakeup, just deselect Low Bandwidth, or press Ctrl+K.

Originally posted by LeoCG:

Have you tried testing on another computer just to make sure the problem is caused by Opera?

Originally posted by arnymars:

It doesn't make sense based on the above discussion

Note though, when troubleshooting software, if you limit your troubleshooting to only what makes sense, you'll miss out on a lot of solutions. In other words, *if* you have the means to test something and doing so requires little effort, it's in your best interest to do it and rule it out even if it doesn't make sense. The reason for this is that seldom do things make sense. Using logic to limit the things you have to try will hinder your investigation. Assume nothing.

Originally posted by arnymars:

What's important from all this discussion, there is absolutely no need for M2 to start checking mail and feeds before the PC is fully waken up and the user has logged in.

You've said this many times. Bug report or your issue does not exist. No one will fix it if it's not filed.

I did file it for Opera 11 and 12 separately. Otherwise Opera developer would never post in this thread. I don't feel however, there is a policy in Opera Software to coordinate activities and PC resources between development teams. As often happens, each team considers their component a paramount one, which has to be loaded even before the PC boots.

As to checking on different hardware, I use Opera for 10 years. So, I did check it on different hardware over time, it varied, and I remember overwhelming requests to add Low Bandwidth Mode, since M2 heavily interfered with web browsing. It was added eventually, but not fully implemented, leaving the gaps at PC wakeup and also at Opera launch with a multitab session for M2 uncontrolled activity. It was also filed many times as Opera Spec Violation bug. But you probably know, some bugs are never fixed due to a single person position that his component is always first for most users (while it is NOT, as heavy demand for LBM demonstrated).

I do want to keep using M2, but ONLY in LBM, and it should be fully implemented, meaning NO M2 activity neither at PC wakeup, no at Opera launch, especially with a big session.

Originally posted by arnymars:

I did file it for Opera 11 and 12 separately.

What are the bug numbers?

Originally posted by arnymars:

Otherwise Opera developer would never post in this thread.

Not necessarily.

The recent ones:
DSK-348665 (Opera 12 crashes PC)
DSK-348427 (LBM Spec violation)
DSK-348042 (Opera 11 crashes PC)
DSK-348041 (M2 security breach - checks mail before user login)

Summary: Opera crashes the PC at wakeup in certain hardware configurations, if left running before PC Standby

Steps to reproduce
===================
1. Launch Opera and open multiple tabs with any webpages
2. Send PC to Standby
3. Wakeup the PC
4. Login as the same user at wakeup

Expected result
===============
PC fully wakes up, antivirus checks wakeup processes, network gets ready, hard drives get ready, then Opera mail Client checks for emails and feeds, and Opera updates open webpages. Opera must wait at least 2 min after wakeup, and then proceed with normal activity of checking mail and updating webpages to avoid regular system crash.

Actual result
=============
Opera, loaded in RAM before PC standby, at wakeup immediately rushes to check mail before user loges in, or OS fully wakes up the PC and hard drives are ready for Read & Write. It regularly results in file system damage in certain PC configurations with large hard drives 2-3 GB (as reported by the OS as crash cause) requiring OS reboot (and system restore from Hybrid Sleep) and at times forced checking ALL partitions of HD where Opera profile is located with CHKDSK. See also thread: http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1117082

Originally posted by arnymars:

I remember overwhelming requests to add Low Bandwidth Mode, since M2 heavily interfered with web browsing.

LBM was not implemented to prevent the mail client from interfering with web browsing, but to improve the experience/save data costs on slow networks. It works by not downloading attachments until you request them, not syncing all IMAP folders right away and things like that. So LBM is not really related to the Windows wake-up behavior in my opinion, and should not be expected to work as a workaround for the crash problem you have.

Thanks for somewhat contradictory explanation. All I want is exactly what you mentioned and LBM is supposed to do: "not syncing all IMAP folders right away" until PC is fully waken up, and also until Opera fully launches with a large session pages fully loaded (not related to PC wakeup and system crash).

Originally posted by arnymars:

DSK-348042

Thanks.

Originally posted by arnymars:

As clearly stated in my 1-st post, Opera displays email and feed notification pop-ups at PC wake-up, even if a user has not logged in

After coming out of standby ("sleep" on Win7, or are you talking about "hibernate"?), I can confirm that Opera checks for mail before I unlock the screen. I can also confirm that other programs like foobar make connections to the net before I unlock the screen (foobar starts streaming from the net for example). However, for Opera, I cannot confirm that the new mail notification tooltip at the bottom right of the screen shows through the locked screen. It just doesn't do that for me. I can hear the notification sound that there's a new email though.

One thing to note here though is that the screen is just locked when coming out of standby. You're still logged in to your user account/profile etc. The screen is just locked where you have to enter your password to unlock it.

I also cannot reproduce the bsods with my hardware and OS.

Originally posted by burnout426:

One thing to note here though is that the screen is just locked when coming out of standby. You're still logged in to your user account/profile etc. The screen is just locked where you have to enter your password to unlock it.

Right. Locking the PC (screensaver made, or Win+L, will not stop your applications from running in the background.

Originally posted by arnymars:

All I want is exactly what you mentioned and LBM is supposed to do: "not syncing IMAP folders right away"

You misquoted me - I said 'not syncing all IMAP folders' - only INBOX gets synced right away. If you don't want that, change the account settings, but there is no separate setting for when Opera is running in the background of a locked PC.

Opera was showing mail popup notifications before user login in (or unlocking screen, which is the same from security standpoint) at PC wakeup on some occasions, but not always. I think it may be linked to a condition when the PC already started going to blue screen right after showing a login screen for a minute - in the process so to say. Its a security threat no matter how you slice it.

Indeed, it happens in certain hardware configs with large (slower green model) hard drives.

How to change Mail account settings to block Inboxes of IMAP accounts be synced right away at PC wakeup or Opera launch? There is no such option (you suggest to change), and its Opera Spec Violation for LBM.

Again, we can talk till the next millennium (not unusual for some reported Opera bugs), but the bottom line is cristal clear:

LBM should prevent any M2 activity at PC wakeup or Opera launch (particularly a big session). I know, I said this before. You can deny or claim its not included (when it should be), but the blue screens will continue (and MS confirmed it as a major issue - see links above) until M2 LBM logic will actually be changed instead of talking. Since the number of large and green HD models will only grow, the issue will get more and more annoying, thus discouraging more people from using Opera.

Since there are NO advantages of M2 rushing to the web at PC wakeup, there is no need to clarify how things done in Opera now. Yet there is an urgent need to change how its done. If other programs check the web at PC wakeup - this is not a reason to allow the same for M2 in LBM, since a user specifically selected that mode to prevent such activity, assuming it's logically included in that mode. My AV also checks for new virus definitions at each wakeup, and Adobe etc. checks for new updates once a month or so, but they DELAY this activity a bit, and it does not result in blue screens.

ONLY M2 activity at wakeup results in my system config in blue screens - hope you understand it by now. This simply means, its the least intelligent package I use, who's developers prefer to deny obvious spec violations and/or lack of elementary spec logic, while existing LBM implementation is incomplete and does not produce any benefit to the end user whatsoever at wakeup or Opera launch, and keeps damaging users hardware.

Also, there may be a bug in M2, which is hard to trace for an end user, resulting in blue screens at PC wakeup. Its obvious for a user, by delaying M2 activity at wakeup, its possible to prevent this bug from manifesting itself. The end result is the same - the system is stable, and users are happy.

Again, there is no logic or benefit from M2 rushing to check mail at PC wakeup, when LBM mode is selected. LBM mode was requested by users to prevent this kind of activity, but was not fully implemented according to users expectations.

I give you another example. For 2 years users reported that M2 would not display a 1-st check email content by each account, but will display a 2nd email, and also 1st when a user goes back and checks it again. I remember, burnout426 claimed, it never happens because... he can't reproduce it on his hardware. Later Opera claimed to fix this bug in several releases (despite it "never happens"), yet it kept showing up. Right now in Opera 12 I don't see it happening, so hopefully it was finally fixed instead of denial and/or partial fix (probably without identifying the actual cause).

Originally posted by arnymars:

Opera was showing mail popup notifications before user login in (or unlocking screen, which is the same from security standpoint) at PC wakeup on some occasions, but not always. I think it may be linked to a condition when the PC already started going to blue screen right after showing a login screen for a minute

That's a possibility and could explain why I can't reproduce the problem.

I don't get a bsod, even with all of Opera (setup with mail) installed to an external usb drive while going in and out of sleep mode while that Opera is still running. When Opera tries to read from the USB drive before it's ready when coming out of sleep mode, I get an error dialog (due to Opera trying to read files from the hard drive before it's ready) where I can click "try again" or "ignore" or "cancel". Clicking "try again" works fine. No BSOD though.

May be this can help? It happens at wakeup from either Sleep, or Hybrid Sleep Mode. The difference only is, in Hybrid Sleep mode, if BSOD occurs at wakeup due to M2 activity, after reboot system is restored from disk, unless the CHKDSK is started by system.

Opera M2 cased BSODs

The error caused by Opera:
0xC0000056 Description
STATUS_DELETE_PENDING A non-close operation has been requested of a file object that has a delete pending.

So its obvious Opera bug.

As said before, even if you can't reproduce it, it doesn't mean, LBM is implemented as requested and expected by users, and it should be changed accordingly. The bottom line, its the USER's choice, whether to check email during wakeup or Opera startup process or not, and the right to have this choice was confirmed by offering LBM, yet it was not done properly.

Even if there were no BSODs happen, I would still want M2 to hang on and wait until my PC fully wakens up, or until Opera starts and fully launches a large session. Instead, M2 interrupts large session downloads at Opera launch by continuously attempting to login to multiple web accounts.

And "Opera is running in the background of a locked PC" has nothing to do with the issue. Opera is not supposed to run, whether on the background or foreground, when the PC is not ready yet and in the process of being waken up. In fact, M2 should wait until massive Proc activity related to wakeup and AV checks entirely drops.

Originally posted by arnymars:

its Opera Spec Violation for LBM

Please point us to the spec for the Low-bandwidth mode in Opera?

Originally posted by arnymars:

before user login in (or unlocking screen, which is the same from security standpoint) at PC wakeup

No, these are *not* the same. If you've locked the machine, that windows user account is still active, which is very different from completely logging out that user account.

"Spec violation" is the term used in Opera Bug Tracker. While users don't have access to actual Opera feature specs, they can be reverse engineered, or assumed to be obviously implemented at bug reporting, and compared to what happens and was actually requested for years and logically expected by the users.

"The same" means a user can login to a different account at PC wakeup. Are you saying that even after that Opera will keep checking emails of the previous user, despite he may never come back again, and another user already works on the same PC? To me its obvious security breach, as people forget to log out quite often. That's what screen protection at wakeup is for.

People misunderstand that option a lot... it refers to public web specs like the ones from the W3C and IETF organisations. But if you infer that a certain feature should work in a certain way, does not mean that this is how Opera has designed and implemented it. Demanding a change because it does not fit your interpretation is not something that will help you much, I'm afraid. I hope I don't sound to negative, I really would like to help with your hibernation crash problem, but I'm not convinced that we should change how this feature work.

Originally posted by arnymars:

"The same" means a user can login to a different account at PC wakeup. Are you saying that even after that Opera will keep checking emails of the previous user, despite he may never come back again, and another user already works on the same PC? To me its obvious security breach, as people forget to log out quite often. That's what screen protection at wakeup is for.

In Windows, and also under other operating systems, you can be logged into multiple accounts at the same time. If you lock the PC with Win+L to take a coffee break at work, your applications will keep humming along, for example a chat application will stay connected (the smart ones will mark you as 'away'). And if someone else uses the same PC to log into another account after locking the PC or using the 'Other user' option from the Windows Start menu, that doesn't close down the original user session - it that would happen you could easily lose unsaved data.

Rijk

I don't "demand a change because it doesn't fit my interpretation". This is intentionally perverted view of what was reported in this thread. If you didn't get the idea, you will never get it, so the only suggestion I have - read this thread again. I do know, people are mostly driven by emotions, and will not do anything useful otherwise. BUT... In some situations people simply hide laziness behind false emotions, and won't do anything anyway, because its an extra work they don't want to do unless ordered. In other situations, people don't know how to accomplish a task, so they try to hit the ball back to the other corner, claiming "not convinced".

Since I use Opera for awhile, I do know that some features required extraordinary lengthy efforts from the public to be implemented, and then Opera management reported stock prices raise as their own accomplishments, despite they blocked these features for many years (like html in emails). On other occasions its all in the hands of the beholder, who chooses the way that delivers seemingly no efforts - do nothing. So my task is to report the issue, and you do with it what you always do.

As to reported security issue, there is absolutely no logic behind Opera checking mail on one user account, when another user has logged in. This is useless activity, resulting in PC slow down, and has no justification, except to refer to unrelated software as you did. Meanwhile, all packages are created by different teams, some more talented than others, and Opera has 700+ people to work on a single core browser, while many programs are developed by a single author. So, this is not a reference thread, we are talking about Opera browser here, not other packages, and its logic should not be based on what other packages do. They may have a lot more issues then Opera to begin with.

Meanwhile, you said nothing about the bug reported. May be its time to comment something along the lines "I'm not convinced..."?

I've a better suggestion: "I can't repeat it on my hardware." This trick always worked well.

Readers aren't stupid - you never justified, why M2 rushes to the web in LBM during PC wakeup and at Opera starting a session. What is the exact need to do that? Instead, you say "not convinced", meaning current logic is the best by default and doesn't require explanation. I'm afraid, it does... may be you simply don't know, how to control M2 at PC wakeup, how to ID the right time for action. In fact, most headache comes from M2 interfering with Opera launching with a large session, when loading multiple pages is continuously interrupted and slown down by unneeded at that time M2 activity despite LBM selected.

Originally posted by arnymars:

As to reported security issue, there is absolutely no logic behind Opera checking mail on one user account, when another user has logged in.

Why not if the (other) user is still logged in? And what is the security issue on it? Checking for new mail does not looks like a security issue for me and does not slow down the computer. Or should not at least.

You may not want that a program works when the system are locked but some other could want the opposite.

It depends what the program does. Of course, some programs perform large volume of analytical calculations, that don't require user presence. But to keep checking email and sending passwords repeatedly when another user is using the PC - it calls for trouble and increases web traffic and PC load, while having no justifiable need.

Ok, that's your opinion but others could think different.

I don't think so, except for the sake of argument. The reason is, Opera doesn't download emails at checking mail accounts, in particular in LBM. It only gets email headers list from each account, and it takes less than 1-2 min to get for 10-15 email accounts. Hence, there is no benefit to do it during PC wakeup or another user's session, even for someone who wants to have immediate access to all mail upon login, only to let Opera continuously send passwords to mail servers to update headers list. It takes longer for a user to manually get a single email content than a list of headers. The only (flown) benefit is "M2 code simplicity", for which a user has to pay by BSODs, higher security risk, extra PC load and useless web traffic.

This is just one of these cases, when extra code needed is not obvious (especially at wakeup), and unless someone gets assigned to write it, all you can eat is "I'm not convinced". They're unable to explain anyway, why current logic is in place - this is a sure sign its flown.

And with regards to Opera M2 bug that causes BSOD - he said its "your hibernation problem", which in English means, someone else should take care of it, despite in ONLY happens when M2 is active (but not with other packages they referred to above). Otherwise, he "really wants to help", but only if he doesn't have to do anything.

In Microsoft Windows, a fatal system error can be deliberately caused from a kernel-mode driver with either the KeBugCheck or KeBugCheckEx function. However, this should only be done as a last option when a critical driver or program has corrupted data and it is impossible to recover from the problem.

Bug Check 0x56: INSTRUCTION_COHERENCY_EXCEPTION

It appears, Opera marks for deletion one of its files at PC going to Standby and damping RAM, and then attempts to write this file back to disk during PC Wakeup before it was actually deleted at completion of wakeup process.

Sorry, it was premature for me to say that the bug of not showing first email on a 1st check was fixed in Opera 12. Right now I was reading emails from several Gmail accounts, clicked on a 1st email in one of them - bingo, it was downloaded, but didn't show any content, until I clicked on a 2nd email that appeared, and then clicked again on the 1st email. So this bug is now less frequently occurs, but its cause was not yet found, and it was not eradicated as claimed.

Please keep the discussion on topic and stick to one topic per thread. That issue has nothing to do with this thread. You complaining about me not being able to reproduce another problem from another thread also doesn't have anything to do with this thread. Your ramblings about other things like stock prices, features that don't get implemented and your theory on Opera development are way off topic.

If a mod reads this thread, he might close it because of the violations.

Originally posted by arnymars:

LBM

LBM is not intended to have the feature you request it to have. If you want a certain feature, request for it in the wish-list forum. There's also no reason to limit such a feature to LBM, so it would be better just to request the feature without any mention of LBM. Also, in the wish-list thread, you should just request what you want and link to this thread for your particular use-case. No reason to repeat your use-case there.

If LBM was in fact intended to do anything, it was supposed to be explained to users in detail, ideally in a form of a Comparison Table, showing what aspects of M2 behavior are modified depending on LBM selected or not, and providing some background, why such subset of limitations was chosen, and offering users to make suggestions based on their numerous requests for LBM feature. Otherwise, how a user is supposed to consciously select this feature? Most would assume, the discussed functionality was included in LBM, but doesn't work correctly.

Closing threads is not something new to this forum, it was often done when a bug or feature deficiency was revealed and not fixed for a long while, thus resulting in ongoing user reports. This is similar to signing a Declaration: "WE can't / won't do anything about it". If you say, its "my hibernation problem", why did you block showing in Opera the BlueScreenView Report of Opera caused BSODs posted above? It can still be viewed in IE and other browsers though, until you damage the link address.

As you may noted from that Report, the bug was not even spoken about for awhile. But M2 interfering with vital PC and web browsing processes continues, so I had to eventually report that. This is not a minor bug fix request, as in many other threads. This regularly causes PC BSODs - its a major flaw, and gross inconvenience.

Originally posted by arnymars:

If LBM was in fact intended to do anything, it was supposed to be explained to users in detail, ideally in a form of a Comparison Table,...

<http://www.opera.com/mail/> and <http://www.opera.com/mail/support/#lowbandwidth> is the only thing Opera reveals about the feature. Yes, it's not every detailed at all. Regardless, LBM's documentation is off-topic for this thread.

Originally posted by arnymars:

Closing threads is not something new to this forum, it was often done when a bug...

This is off-topic for this thread too.

Originally posted by arnymars:

why did you block showing in Opera the BlueScreenView Report of Opera caused BSODs posted above?

Not sure what you're talking about. Nothing has been blocked, certainly not by anyone here. I'm able to view the pic just fine. I can't analyze your dump files either as the Win7 debugger I have for Visual Studio says that it doesn't handle dmp files for older versions of windows. I can load WinXP in VirtualBox and use the windows debugging tools to analyze load the dmp files. But, it says I'm missing a bunch of symbols that are needed. So, for me personally, the dmp files are of no use.

Also, the pic doesn't really help much either. It says the bsod was caused by an exception in ntoskrnl. All I know is that ntoskrnl crashes are oftend caused by memory corruption that's caused by a bad driver.

Originally posted by arnymars:

If you say, its "my hibernation problem",

I personally think it's a driver problem you have. That's my opinion. It is also my opinion that working around a bad driver issue that causes a bsod is not the best use-case for your feature request. A better use-case in my opinion is that you just want more control over how and when Opera's mail client connects to the net.

I also personally don't think anything you've said is a privacy/security issue, except for the notification tool-tip showing through the locked screen. But, a driver problem appears to be the root cause of that.

Originally posted by arnymars:

And it seems to be namely email checkups at wakeup that cause the blue screen. I created a new Opera profile on a non-system drive, and blue screens stopped occurring. When I reverted only Mail folder back to the system drive, blue screens restarted again. I didn't try the same with Cache folders, but the effect will probably be the same.

You might want to test with the cache folders too because you said in your initial posts that you thought that browser tabs being open before the computer went on standby and then out of standby could trigger it too. *If* that's true, delaying the mail activity probably wouldn't work around the bsod issue. It's just adress your privacy concerns.

But, I see that you mentioned you use anti-virus. Anti-virus software is known to mess with mail clients big time. And, it's not just the email scanner (which you should turn off), but other web page scanners that can mess with mail clients. Since anti-virus services can work at a low level, it's possible that it's messed with Opera's disk activity in a way that's triggering a bsod. So, I'd try uninstalling all your security software to if that helps. If it does, you might want to try different anti-virus software.

So, I've personally given your issue some attention and tried to analyze it. But, I don't have the means to check into it more myself as I can't reproduce the problem. That doesn't mean anyone is against analyzing it further. Someone that knows Opera's disk/net access windows platform code (and wakeup listener code if any) might be able to investigate further (even if they can't reproduce) to see if there are any bugs in Opera's code in that Opera.

As for your feature request, it'll be up to Opera whether they want to implement it or not. They haven't said either way. There's been no official Opera position on it. But, if enough people want it or it just sounds like an awesome feature that'd really be useful, there's a good chance it'd get implemented. But, even then, Opera is going to tell you they're going to implement it. They'd surprise everyone. I personally think your security concerns of Opera checking mail (and logging into the server) and the bsod to be separate issues.

But, that's just my personal thoughts. Don't take it for more than that.

Finally, note that when the computer comes out of sleep mode, it's supposed to restore things to how they were before going into sleep mode. So, if Opera was able to check for mail before going into sleep mode, when things are restored, it should be able to still check for mail. If your only problem is that Opera's "check for mail at startup" code is being triggered when coming out of sleep (don't know if it is), maybe Opera shouldn't do that and Opera should suspend and save the check interval timer when the computer goes to sleep (if possible) and just continue on when the computer wakes up. But, for IMAP accounts for example, Opera would have to log into the server no matter what to get IDLE going. So, this might only help with POP against. But, this is all just assuming that Opera's "check for mail at startup" code runs when the computer wakes up.

Btw, what happens if you goto "Menu -> settings" and set "work offline" before putting the computer to sleep? Then, Opera shouldn't go back online until you log back in and uncheck "work offline" yourself. That's a simple thing to do to prevent Opera from connecting to the net till you unlock the screen. If you still get a bsod, that's probably due to disk activity and a drive/anti-virus issue though.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the detail reply and your efforts. It looks, saving the M2 Timer value before going to Standby might be a fair (user defined) solution, if also applied to IMAP, which I use only, as probably most users by now. Still, something should prevent M2 from checking mail at Opera launch with a large session. I assume you can easily verify that Opera rushes to check mail at PC wakeup (for example by analyzing a recorded by another PC traffic on the same LAN). I'll try to go Offline before Standby as a workaround and watch the outcome. This is not a RAM issue due to exact cause repeatability (Parameter 2).

As to the BSODs cause, its revealed by Parameter 2, and was addressed in this and that posts, if you read attentively. It has nothing to do with a kernel driver. Meanwhile, I use Win 7 64-bit SP1 with all latest updates installed, so not sure, why you ID my files as XP related. Yes, the BSODs might be triggered and M2 activity delayed while AV is checking rushed M2 traffic, but this activity should not happen to begin with during wakeup, in contrast with AV / FW activity that MUST happen during wakeup. I use the same AV for several OSs on a multiboot system, so replacing it is not a justifiable option, when it merely does the right thing in the right time. Btw, the above BSODs also happen in Win XP that might be a sign in favor of your AV & M2 theory, but remember - the HDs also remain the same regardless of OS type, with all their "wakeup" specs if at all relevant.

Originally posted by arnymars:

As to the BSODs cause, its revealed by Parameter 2, and was addressed in this and that posts

Yes, hopefully someone will investigate Opera's code in that area.

Originally posted by burnout426:

What happens if you goto "Menu -> settings" and set "work offline" before putting the computer to sleep?

I updated to Opera 12 B1116 (since Opera 11 behaves the same in this regard) and tested it in both modes: Online and Offline. When Opera with M2 active is left Online before going to Standby (Hybrid Sleep), at wakeup BSODs occur with the same frequency as before. I didn't send ALL BSOD reports earlier as they are identical by the cause. When Opera is set Offline before Standby, at wakeup AV activity (which with M2 active at wakeup takes about 75% CPU load of a Quad Core CPU for 60 sec) is shorten to 30 sec, and no BSODs occurred so far for several days. Earlier I reported, no BSODs occurred as well at wakeup with Opera left Online at Standby with M2 switched OFF.

This is M2 activity that causes BSODs and actually significantly extends time to PC readiness & desktop availability at wakeup (even when not resulting in BSOD) instead of making email available faster. I switched OFF 3rd party FW and use Windows FW with no change. And I need to check Mail by AV - its not immune. Btw, after PC fully wakes up and is ready, checking Opera mail by AV is fast and flawless and doesn't result in a notable load on CPU - I monitor the load.

Thanks for checking.

Originally posted by arnymars:

And I need to check Mail by AV - its not immune.

Could you check with AV disabled *just to see if it still happens*?

Also, how big is your mail folder? How big is omailbase.dat, the store folder, the lexicon folder, the indexer folder, index.ini? Maybe there's a clue there that might trigger premature disk activity.

Also, how many messages to you have total? How many accounts? newsgroups and feeds?

How do you have message lists sorted? Are they sorted by date or subject or something else?

I don't keep a lot of mail hanging anywhere (including M2), and also periodically delete Mail folder (except accounts.ini), and download current headers again to keep it undamaged. Several accounts might be checked particularly by M2 and a few Feeds. All sorted by Date, and I wonder, why Opera doesn't set Sort by Date by default at account setup.

At the moment after some cleanup:

omailbase.dat - ~4 Mb, the store folder - ~200 Kb, the lexicon folder - ~7 Mb, the indexer folder - ~2 Mb, index.ini - ~200 Kb.

I worked with Mail Check disabled in AV for a test, it didn't affect BSODs. Can't disable AV completely, only by deinstalling it or possible changing some Registry keys (not sure if they will be restored next reboot). Its set to check running apps, I can uncheck it too for a test, it will limit AV activity with Opera at wakeup.

What's Opera action to check mail: Get mail ? Want to add it to Work Offline/Online Check Button (when checked), since Work Online action along doesn't result in checking Mail.

Originally posted by arnymars:

omailbase.dat - ~4 Mb, the store folder - ~200 Kb, the lexicon folder - ~7 Mb, the indexer folder - ~2 Mb, index.ini - ~200 Kb.

It's strange that the little bit of activity M2 has to do to read that little bit of data would cause the av to use so much cpu for a bit.

Originally posted by arnymars:

I worked with Mail Check disabled in AV for a test, it didn't affect BSODs. Can't disable AV completely, only by deinstalling it or possible changing some Registry keys (not sure if they will be restored next reboot).

With any good AV, you should be able to fully uninstall it without problem and then install again without problems. What av are you using? AVG, Avast, MSE, Eset, Symantec, McAffe, Kaspersky, Avira, ClamAV?

Originally posted by arnymars:

I can uncheck it too for a test, it will limit AV activity with Opera at wakeup.

O.K.

Originally posted by arnymars:

What's Opera action to check mail: Get mail ?

Yeh, I think it's Get Mail. Something like "Work online & Get Mail" would probably do it.

AV activity is caused by Opera and other apps in RAM at wakeup time and right after. Its extended a bit due to a known cycle: until PC is ready to certain degree with network UP, FW blocks all web traffic while M2 keeps sending login requests persistently, all checked by AV. Of course AV can be uninstalled, but BSODs aren't happen each wakeup anyway, so its a risky business to run PC without AV. I'm not about to change AV anyway, and it works great with Opera otherwise.

Originally posted by arnymars:

so its a risky business to run PC without AV

It's super, super hard to get a virus. You either have to purposely give yourself one or just not know how to be safe (or run into the small chance of being tricked even though you know how to be safe). And, you still have to be safe no matter what as no anti-virus catches every thing.

So, it's definitely not risky to run without anti-virus for a bit while testing things. You're being super paranoid. Of course, if you don't want to, you don't have to.

Its not that hard. Opera server can feed you anything, and in fact is feeding every client regularly with certain Profile file updates, which Opera saves on user's HD (and can launch if desired), thus controlling each PC almost in real time, especially if one's IP is flagged in Opera Forum. Lets say they want to shut up a guy who reports a persistent bug, which they can't & don't have time & don't have skills & don't want to fix (in real time). They would just advice a guy to shut down AV and then send and launch a bug on his PC - possible?

Speaking of bugs, apparently my AV was recently updated to include Disable feature. So I disabled all its components for awhile except the run scanner (tshhh..., don't tell Opera), waited 30 min in standby, then wakeup. At wakeup the Login screen appeared and then was blocked for 2 min until it got responsive again. I don't know what happen in-between, but will look at logs. No new messages appeared, but M2 was obviously aggressive as always. I guess, I need to run AV on my HD now, unless some staff was soaked out during that time. Now need to review that traffic with my other PC.

Now I checked it with AV out, and the issue is the same: M2 activity at wakeup causes BSODs at about each 3rd wakeup. The linked pic shows that the BSOD is caused namely by Opera - M2, since it damages M2 local DB - no emails are visible in any account after that. Any ideas, how to fix this message list without deleting Mail folder in Opera Profile?

M2 damages own Mail DB at PC wakeup