U.S allegations against Iran: real or just fairy tales?

Did an elite branch of Iran's military handpick
a divorced, 56-year-old Iranian-American
used-car salesman from Texas to hire a
hitman from a Mexican drug cartel to
assassinate the ambassador to Saudi Arabia
by blowing up a bomb in a crowded
restaurant in Washington?
U.S. officials say they are certain the bizarre
plot against Ambassador Adel Jubeir was
real.
But some analysts say they are not. They find
it unlikely that the Iranian government, or
legitimate factions within, would be involved
in such a tangled plot.
Iran slams plot allegations
They cite five reasons why:
1. The alleged plot doesn't fit Iran's style
In the 32-year history of the Islamic Republic
of Iran, its Quds Force -- the branch
implicated in the alleged plot -- has never
been publicly linked to an assassination plot
or an attack on U.S. soil. In cases where Quds
Force members have been accused of
plotting attacks, they had gone to great
lengths to cover their tracks and hire proxy
groups of the highest caliber, like the
Lebanese Hezbollah.
Hiring an Iranian-American used-car
salesman who, according to investigators,
openly talked about his connections to the
Iranian military and brazenly made a
$100,000 wire transfer doesn't fit the Quds
Force's modus operandi, analysts say.
"It would be completely uncharacteristic for
Iran to be caught red-handed," former CIA
operative Bob Baer told CNN.
"There are very few groups operationally
better than Iran's Quds Force. They know
what they are doing, The only proxies they
use are ones they've vetted. They don't let
their own citizens get involved."-CNN

I don't think we're getting the whole story from anyone involved.

Originally posted by Der Spiegel:

The strange story of a supposed Iranian plot to assassinate Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the United States has stirred up a lot of noise, but not much clarity, on both sides of the Atlantic. US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has called the bungled scheme a "flagrant violation of international and United States law" as well as a "threat to international peace and security." According to Vice President Joe Biden, the US is now "in the process of uniting world public opinion, continuing to isolate and condemn (Iran's) behavior." He ominously added that "nothing has been taken off the table."
That's strong language for a plot that a New York Times writer describes as "a rejected Quentin Tarantino script." US officials announced on Wednesday that they had caught a member of Iran's secretive Quds Force in the act of utilizing a used-car dealer in Texas named Manssor Arbabsiar as an intelligence asset for the special foreign actions unit. Arbabsiar, in turn, was allegedly trying to hire a member of a Mexican drug gang to assassinate the Saudi ambassador in Washington, DC. Arbabsiar was reportedly arrested late last month.
"The idea that they would attempt to go to a Mexican drug cartel to solicit murder-for-hire to kill the Saudi ambassador, nobody could make that up, right?" Clinton said this week in an interview with the Associated Press. Perhaps not, but experts wary of war talk from Washington say it's also uncharacteristically amateurish behavior for Iranian intelligence.
'Departs from All Known Procedures'
Gary Sick, a scholar at Columbia University's Middle East Institute, writes that the plot "departs from all known Iranian policies and procedures," and Juan Cole at the University of Michigan argues that the plot looks more like an attempt at revenge by an Iranian drug cartel, with flimsy Quds Force cover, than a serious operation by Tehran.
...

Full article here.

Where's Katsung when you really need him? This looks like something he'd post-- and try to make it sound serious enough to believe-- and fail miserably at getting anybody to believe.

I bet the whole thing was supposed to happen when he would also be in DC, right next door from the saudi embassy, so they were actually trying to kill him and the ambassador was just a cover-up

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Where's Katsung when you really need

who is katsung?

Originally posted by johnogaziechi:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Where's Katsung when you really need

who is katsung?

Are you sure you want to know????

OK, let's see if this works;
http://my.opera.com/lounge/forums/findpost.pl?id=10346172

OK, now you know who Katsung is. Aren't you sorry you asked?

If the allegations from the Iranian are true then that is not a very helpful situation at all and only increases the volatile situation between the USA and the Iranaian loose cannon. However the US is often very good at doing the very same stuff itself is it not? Back in 1959 through the CIA it helped to topple the Prime Minister of Iran and put it's full weight behind the Shah. When the nutters revolution deposed the Shah the poor ill man was left to go round trying to suss out somewhere to live. His US backers to him he gave great support wouldn't take him in and he was left to die of his cancer ignominiously in Panama. Assassinations, regime toppling of people it seen as enemies have been standard practice.

I do hope in this particular case after all the publicity that the USA is correct but I don't think it can take the moral high ground. It never really was but did it anyway.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Originally posted by johnogaziechi:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Where's Katsung when you really need

who is katsung?

Are you sure you want to know????

OK, let's see if this works;
http://my.opera.com/lounge/forums/findpost.pl?id=10346172

OK, now you know who Katsung is. Aren't you sorry you asked?

o boy i shouldn't have asked... I think the US DEA needs to know about...there must be some kind of new illicit drug on the streets that causes severe hallucinations. I think he needs serious help, its no joke wait a minute what if his serious? And mjm is FBI? That'd mean rj is SAS and thedawgfan is CIA

if -hypothetically speaking- the allegations are true then what w'd iran possibly gain from killing the saudi ambassador? The answer obviously is nothing

by the way since we got FBI, CIA, mossad, and maybe Quds agents here -as alledged by kat- i'd like to ask: did any of you by chance kidnapp my fellow country man Dambuzu? He's been missing for quit sometime now

No seriously, we should be best friends with Iran, I mean they are cute and cuddly. You're sitting on the beach with your friend and suddenly he/she Say's it's 11 o'clock you infidels must die..

Obama called it a sign that Iran has "been
outside of accepted norms of international
behavior for far too long" and said the
United States will work with international
partners and will take steps to ensure that
Iran "pays a price." what price

Right now, it appears that we're going to try to tighten sanctions against Iran. If the rumors from an unnamed highly placed white horse souse- whoops, I mean reports from an unnamed White House Source-- are to be believed, they're going to try some banking sanctions first. We'll see where it goes from there.

Originally posted by johnogaziechi:

Obama called it a sign that Iran has "been
outside of accepted norms of international
behavior for far too long" and said the
United States will work with international
partners and will take steps to ensure that
Iran "pays a price." what price

It will be measured in barrels.

Originally posted by tt92:

Originally posted by johnogaziechi:

Obama called it a sign that Iran has "been
outside of accepted norms of international
behavior for far too long" and said the
United States will work with international
partners and will take steps to ensure that
Iran "pays a price." what price

It will be measured in barrels.

no doubt using imperial units. After all the conversions are done, it might end up being practically nothing...

Wolf!

Just another bout of hypocrisy. If DANBYZO is missing johnogaziechi try Langley or your equivilant in Nigeria.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Just another bout of hypocrisy. If DANBYZO is missing johnogaziechi try Langley or your equivilant in Nigeria.

unfortunately we don't have an equivalent to the CIA... maybe something close to the Gestapo

I can't imagine what Langley would want with Danbuzu unless they thought he could come up with an unbreakable code. Some of his posts that aren't copy-and-paste are almost undecipherable.

During WW2, our guys did use Navajo Indians for just such a purpose, they were able to talk in a code that the Japanese were never able to break.

About this thread: I have a suspicion most folk aren't buying it this time. Obama wants to beat the war drum, and a handful of his immediate staff are picking up the beat, but almost nobody else does.

First, this whole plot sounded a bit off. It's something Katsung would have come up with in one of his stranger moments, and nobody sane could really get behind this plotline.

Second, right now our forces are spread a bit thin. We've got guys in Afghanistan and Iraq, we've got ships and men keeping an eye on North Korea and of course we have to keep bases manned in all the places we have a presence. That doesn't leave a lot for an adventure in Iraq.

Third: Katsung might be on to something, or at least on something-- take your pick. But, we've got this HAARP thing, and we might be able to pull off the stunt by sending a tornado to Tehran, or causing an earthquake to happen there, or maybe sending a hurricane to the Persian Gulf. If, as Kat says, HAARP can actually do all that stuff maybe it's time we saw it deployed against our enemies, instead of having it deployed either at home or against our friends. Do you think anybody would try to start some trouble if we demonstrated-- where it really matters-- that we can make the weather a weapon of war?

It is like the Gestapo johnogaziechi just pretend to be simple, smile and they will ignore you.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

About this thread: I have a suspicion most folk aren't buying it this time. Obama wants to beat the war drum, and a handful of his immediate staff are picking up the beat, but almost nobody else does.

First, this whole plot sounded a bit off. It's something Katsung would have come up with in one of his stranger moments, and nobody sane could really get behind this plotline.

That's the point, the whole thing looks very, very unprofessional. 'Someone in Iran' isn't necessarily the same as 'the iranian government' - they might be crazy but so far they didn't look suicidal. If they wanted to kill a saudi official they would probably pick a less stable place to do it and more reliable people than the mexican mob. I've heard speculation that this was more or less a mafia hit, which would make a little bit more sense, and the US government is just milking it for what it's worth.

Both that language and the absence of any statement attributed to Arabsiar imply that the Iranian-American said nothing about assassinating the Saudi ambassador except in response to suggestions by the informant, who was already part of an FBI undercover operation.

At the July 17 meeting, the DEA informant presented a plan to blow up a restaurant to kill the ambassador, with the possible deaths of 100-150 people, eliciting a lack of concern on the part of Arabsiar about such deaths.
source

I only wondered why they simply didn't let it happen and right afterwards start bombing Iran in response.
They simply didn't because Iraq and Afghanistan is enough for the time being. More painful sanctions and isolation of Teheran is the best the US government can strive for at the moment.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

I don't think it can take the moral high ground. It never really was but did it anyway.

Nations? High moral ground? Does morality ever apply to nations? Certainly not the U.S. or the UK, which has perpetrated more than its share of duplicitous acts.

Originally posted by Macallan:

the US government is just milking it for what it's worth.

Which in my view is nothing. More political jabber. A distinction without a difference.

As you lot like to think you are better and greater than everyone else Jaybro we shouldn't let you forget you are way top of the list!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

As you lot like to think you are better and greater than everyone else Jaybro we shouldn't let you forget you are way top of the list!

Would you mind explaining that? Particularly the second part.

On the first part, with respect to what? And who, specifically, are "you lot"? Everybody? A select few? Give me something to go on.

Best wishes, Sir!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

As you lot like to think you are better and greater than everyone else Jaybro we shouldn't let you forget you are way top of the list!

Well, somebody had to take over your job I reckon. Still, the BE's record is a little hard to top. I could dig up some history if you're of a mind to look at it. Now, of course most of this was before modern military hardware which helps make the US the power it is today. Just think of what the BE could have been if they had been first with aircraft, tanks and nuclear weapons oh, say, a couple of centuries back. (I quickly note here that the first tanks were British, during the First World War. But, think of what they could have done with such machines a century earlier.)

The sun never set on the British Empire because God didn't trust them in the dark.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

(I quickly note here that the first tanks were British, during the First World War. But, think of what they could have done with such machines a century earlier.)

The role of tanks in WW1 is overrated regardless. I doubt they would've been that impressive compared to well organized infantry and artillery a century earlier either, though no doubt the psychological effects would've been even greater.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

The role of tanks in WW1 is overrated regardless. I doubt they would've been that impressive compared to well organized infantry and artillery a century earlier either, though no doubt the psychological effects would've been even greater.

Actually, the machines themselves were fine. It was the tactics in which they were used that were lousy. They simply didn't know what to do with them. It was later that the Germans finally figured out how to use them effectively. By incorporating them with air and mechanized infantry that would become the all too terrifying but very efficient (how very much German) Blitzkrieg.
The Horrors of World War 1 are actually partly to blame on the American Civil War, where the first instances of modern trench warfare was used. The Generals from Europe that monitored that very conflict, would tragically falsely conclude that it was a very good tactic and the reason why the North won the war. And so would years later use it, only on a much more massive scale back home.

Originally posted by Muttsfan:

Actually, the machines themselves were fine. It was the tactics in which they were used that were lousy.

Perhaps, but the most successful tactics in WW1 depended on artillery bombardments, not unlike how the successful storming of beaches in the Pacific in WW2 was preceded by an entire day of bombardments from the sky as well as the sea. Of course they decided to ignore all that experience when storming the beaches of Normandy. I do believe that only in the Pacific did they practice proper integration of land, sea, and sky, and only on the American side. I may be wrong.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Muttsfan:

Of course they decided to ignore all that experience when storming the beaches of Normandy.

They didn't ignore it, air strikes just didn't work, and the weather didn't help. Once it was started they couldn't really turn back.

And I suspect mjsmsprt37 that God doesn't trust the American Empire in the daylight (espeically with everything that secret police CIA has done)! At least we included religious advancement whereas your empire was about an even greater commercialism and corporate world. Anyway staying with more modern times isn't it really a wee bitty rich for the US to make a ballyhoo wwhen you think how it was involved in Iran all those years ago and just about everywhere else? Assassinations, regime change, undermining those seen as "enemies" because they don't want US financial colonialism. This has sadly been and is the litany.

As for the aside of the Normandy Landings which were a great thing wasn't the Luftaffe very active in the skies? They straffed or am I mistaken? We both got many casulties that day but the American troops got the worse having been pinned down in their sector. It was horrific and they were badly mauled and was a sad part of that landing. Terrible in fact.

Originally posted by Muttsfan:

The Horrors of World War 1 are actually partly to blame on the American Civil War, where the first instances of modern trench warfare was used. The Generals from Europe that monitored that very conflict, would tragically falsely conclude that it was a very good tactic and the reason why the North won the war. And so would years later use it, only on a much more massive scale back home.

You might be interested in reading Harry Turtledove's alt-history series Southern Victory…

Trench warfare was certainly brutal in the Civil War and it's continuation later in WW1. Just a pity OakdaleFTL that the CSA didn't win what they wanted!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Just a pity OakdaleFTL that the CSA didn't win what they wanted!

What they wanted was the continuation of black slavery, no matter what it did to the country, the slaves or themselves. A precursor of the sort of socialism promoted by you "moderns": The moment matters most, and the future can be bought outright, bribed or bedazzled by "stuff"…

Read Jeff Davis's book before you jerk your knee… (You too, Dawg.)

It is not a pity that the CSA failed to secure support from the rest of the western world. It is a credit to the rest of the western world!
But I grant you it was close… What did contemporary Scots say?

Scots were probably sympathetic. The South had hereditary links with here hence that stars n' bars flag. Not that they advocated slavery but you cannot be holier than thou OakdaleFTL. Slave delivery and markets were in Northern US ports I would remind yet again. Lincoln in private wars prepared to accept slavery to keep the Southern States in the Union. Indeed he is also known to have made some rather conflictory and scathing remarks about how far they should allow negroes to be involved in the Union and political set-up. Even those who came north to fight for the Union had to damn well fight even to get damn booyts. They were handy as a propaganda thing and the government had to be forced to use them. So we need to high moral ground from the US point of view.

Slavery would not have lasted much longer anyway. Just look at the time it took from the US declaring it's self a free and democratic republic (Eh?) and how long it took on emancipation. Gees half way throgh the 20th century blacks were stilll finding it a slog. Lack of votes, treated second class in the big film industry and so on. That remarkable man General Robert E. Lee was a man who stood head and shoulders above many in the North's military. A true gentleman and he was against slavery too. And as I said a long time ago that bloody butcher General Sherman, was a military fascist, ethnic cleanser and hater of Indians whom he wanted to exterminate. And he was a US hero?! The South were up against it with their larger and more industrialised North and that they lasted so long is a tribute to their steely determination to be a sovereign nation. That they were not allowed to be so is an early example of that US arrogance that was to be a hallmark in the next century. Their were black in the CSA military apparently too. And remember as well that USA aprtheid contiued right into the 2nd World War. Heavens we were all fighting the racist Nazis and there you were having to have segregation in yours! Then there were those up North who wouldn't fight and who tried to wreck NY City, a regiment that had to be disbanded due to the level of sympathy for the CSA!

As for Jeff Davis just look what you lot did to him. Treated him like the lowest, violent kind of animal all shackled up in chains. Disgusting way to treat the man. Finally, Lee is on my wall and there he stays as a courageous, principled and revered leader who is an inspiration. When he went sadly to that place to sign the surrender his orinary soldiers loved the man so much they got together to but him a brand new uniform so that he would not be there in his worn out one.

Another opera directed by the FBI and the DEA.

Quote, "FBI account of 'terror plot' suggests sting
By Gareth Porter
Oct 15, 2011

WASHINGTON - While the Barack Obama administration vows to hold the Iranian government "accountable" for the alleged plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador in Washington, the legal document describing evidence in the case provides multiple indications that it was mainly the result of a Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) sting operation.

Although the document, called an amended criminal complaint, implicates Iranian-American Mansour Arabsiar and his cousin Ali Gholam Shakuri, an officer in the Iranian Qods force, in a plan to assassinate Saudi Arabian ambassador Adel al-Jubeir, it also suggests that the idea "originated with and was strongly pushed


by an undercover DEA [Department of Drug Enforcement] informant, at the direction of the FBI".

On May 24, when Arabsiar first met with the DEA informant he thought was part of a Mexican drug cartel, it was not to hire a hit squad to kill the ambassador. Rather, there is reason to believe that the main purpose was to arrange a deal to sell large amounts of opium from Afghanistan.

In the complaint, the closest to a semblance of evidence that Arabsiar sought help during that first meeting to assassinate the Saudi ambassador is the allegation, attributed to the DEA informant, that Arabsiar said he was "interested in, among other things, attacking an embassy of Saudi Arabia".

Among the "other things" was almost certainly a deal on heroin controlled by officers in the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC). Three Bloomberg reporters, citing a "federal law enforcement official", wrote that Arabsiar told the DEA informant he represented Iranians who "controlled drug smuggling and could provide tons of opium".

Because of opium entering Iran from Afghanistan, Iranian authorities hold 85% of the world's opium seizures, according to Iran's Fars News Agency. Iranian security personnel, including those in the IRGC and its Qods force, then have the opportunity to sell the opium to traffickers in the Middle East, Europe and now Mexico.

Mexican drug cartels have begun connecting with Middle Eastern drug traffickers, in many cases stationing operatives in Middle East locations to facilitate heroin production and sales, according to a report last January in Border Beat, an online news service run by University of Arizona journalism students.

But the FBI account of the contacts between Arabsiar and the DEA informant does not reference any discussions of drugs.

The criminal complaint refers to an unspecified number of meetings between Arabsiar and the DEA informant in late June and the first two weeks of July. What transpired in those meetings remains the central mystery surrounding the case.

The official account of the investigation cites the testimony of the informant (referred to in the document as "CS-1") in stating, "Over the course of a series of meetings, Arabsiar explained to CS-1 that his associates in Iran had discussed a number of violent missions for CS-1 and CIS-1's purported criminal associates to perform."

The account claims that the mission discussed included murdering the ambassador. But no specific statement proposing or agreeing to the act is attributed to Arabsiar. "Prior to the July 14 meeting, CS-1 had reported that he and Arabsiar had discussed the possibility of attacks on a number of other targets," the account states.

The targets are described as involving "foreign government facilities associated with Saudi Arabia and with another country located either in or outside the United States", without mentioning any discussion of the Saudi ambassador.

Both that language and the absence of any statement attributed to Arabsiar imply that the Iranian-American said nothing about assassinating the Saudi ambassador except in response to suggestions by the informant, who was already part of an FBI undercover operation.

The DEA informant, as the FBI account acknowledges in a footnote, had previously been charged with a narcotics offence by a state in the US and had been cooperating in narcotics investigations - apparently posing as a drug cartel operative - in return for dropping the charges. The document is notably silent on whether the conversation was recorded.

A former FBI official familiar with procedures in such cases, who spoke to Inter Press Service (IPS) anonymously, said the FBI would normally have recorded all such conversations touching on the possibility of terrorism.

The absence of quotes from any of those meetings suggests that they do not support the case being made by the FBI and the Obama administration.

The account is quite explicit, on the other hand, that the July 14 and July 17 meetings were recorded at FBI direction. Statements quoted from those transcripts show the DEA informant trying to induce Arabsiar to indicate agreement to assassinating the Saudi ambassador.

The informant is quoted as saying he would need "at least four guys" and would "take the one point five for the Saudi Arabia". He declared that he "go ahead and work on the Saudi Arabia, get all the information we can".

At one point the informant says, "You just want the, the main guy." And at the end of the meeting, he declares, "[W]e're gonna start doing the guy."

The fact that not a single quote from Arabsiar shows that he agreed to assassinating the ambassador, much less proposed it, suggests that he was either non-committal or linking the issue to something else, such as the prospect of a major drug deal with the cartel.

Arabsiar's quotes from a September 2 phone conversation referring to the cartel as "having the number for the safe" and "once you open the door that's it" could refer to a drug transaction that had been discussed, while the FBI account suggest those quotes refer to the assassination and "other projects" with the Iranian group.

At the July 17 meeting, the DEA informant presented a plan to blow up a restaurant to kill the ambassador, with the possible deaths of 100-150 people, eliciting a lack of concern on the part of Arabsiar about such deaths.

During a visit to Iran in August, Arabsiar wired two equal payments totaling $100,000 to a bank account in New York. But he was still under the impression that he was about to cash in on a deal with the cartel.

The Washington Post reported on Thursday that Arabsiar had told an Iranian-American friend from Corpus Christie, Texas, "I'm going to make good money."

There is also circumstantial evidence that Arabsiar may have even been brought into the sting operation to help further implicate his cousin Gholam Shakuri in the terrorist plot.

Arabsiar met with his cousin Shakuri in late September and told him that the cartel was demanding that he, Arabsiar, go to Mexico personally to guarantee payment. That demand from the DEA was an obvious device by the FBI to get Shakuri and his associates in Tehran to demonstrate their commitment to the assassination.

The FBI account indicates that Shakuri told Arabsiar that he was responsible for himself if he went to Mexico. That statement would have been a warning sign for Arabsiar, if he still believed he was dealing with one of the most murderous drug cartels in Mexico, that he would be risking his own life for a group that was no longer taking responsibility for him.

Yet Arabsiar flew to Mexico as if unconcerned about that risk.

After his arrest on September 29, Arabsiar waived the right to a lawyer and proceeded to provide a complete confession. A few days later, he placed a phone call to Shakuri which was recorded "at the direction of federal enforcement agents", according to the FBI.

Gareth Porter is an investigative historian and journalist specializing in US national security policy. The paperback edition of his latest book, Perils of Dominance: Imbalance of Power and the Road to War in Vietnam, was published in 2006.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MJ15Ak02.html

Originally posted by katsung47:

Another opera directed by the FBI and the DEA.

Well I never! I didn't know that! All the time I thought that Opera was orchestrated by the Shower of Persia (although maybe I need to take a rain check on that), masquerading as a Viking Hoard looted from waste radioactive gold bars, but I never checked I do admit since I was told they don't sell alcoholic beverages. Life is so full of surprises.

Originally posted by string:

Originally posted by katsung47:

Another opera directed by the FBI and the DEA.

Well I never! I didn't know that! All the time I thought that Opera was orchestrated by the Shower of Persia (although maybe I need to take a rain check on that), masquerading as a Viking Hoard looted from waste radioactive gold bars, but I never checked I do admit since I was told they don't sell alcoholic beverages. Life is so full of surprises.

Particularly true in D&D.

Is it good form to unquestioningly accept anything simply because it appears on the Internet?

About accepting anything just because it is on the net is a good point Jaybro. I often think that about here.......!

Originally posted by johnogaziechi:

by the way since we got FBI, CIA, mossad, and maybe Quds agents here -as alledged by kat- i'd like to ask: did any of you by chance kidnapp my fellow country man Dambuzu? He's been missing for quit sometime now

No! DANBUZU is busy with his M.Sc research work, which is to be submitted this coming November. Just wish him GOODLUCK!

Originally posted by johnogaziechi:

by the way since we got FBI, CIA, mossad, and maybe Quds agents here -as alledged by kat- i'd like to ask: did any of you by chance kidnapp my fellow country man Dambuzu? He's been missing for quit sometime now

No! DANBUZU is busy with his M.Sc research work, which is to be submitted this coming November. Just wish him GOODLUCK!

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

I can't imagine what Langley would want with Danbuzu unless they thought he could come up with an unbreakable code. Some of his posts that aren't copy-and-paste are almost undecipherable.

Are you sure this is your opinion on DANBUZU or just some one's?

Originally posted by DANBUZU:

Are you sure this is your opinion on DANBUZU or just some one's?

Like... his other personality's?

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by DANBUZU:

Are you sure this is your opinion on DANBUZU or just some one's?

Like... his other personality's?

You mean like you?

Originally posted by DANBUZU:

You mean like you?

I sure hope so!

Split personalities? Now that's a neat touch?

Originally posted by DANBUZU:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

I can't imagine what Langley would want with Danbuzu unless they thought he could come up with an unbreakable code. Some of his posts that aren't copy-and-paste are almost undecipherable.

Are you sure this is your opinion on DANBUZU or just some one's?

It's my opinion. I own it. Any questions?

Oops. It might be 'purty' but when When Chicago bites you know it.

The whole Oil reason to invade Iran is pure shit. they have been giving US trouble since the 70's.

Sadly true. If only it drew itself in a bit more would get a better PR?

Originally posted by DANBUZU:

Originally posted by johnogaziechi:

by the way since we got FBI, CIA, mossad, and maybe Quds agents here -as alledged by kat- i'd like to ask: did any of you by chance kidnapp my fellow country man Dambuzu? He's been missing for quit sometime now

No! DANBUZU is busy with his M.Sc research work, which is to be submitted this coming November. Just wish him GOODLUCK!

you are writting a research paper? M.Sc in what?

Originally posted by johnogaziechi:

you are writting a research paper?

Yes he is. He even has a photo to proof it, at his blog. Nice computer, by the way.

Research paper on Lego is it?

A case of sting.

Assassination Plot Was Pushed By DEA Informant


Arbabsiar thought he was involved in a drug deal

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Friday, October 14, 2011

Details emerging from the dubious Iranian terror plot strongly suggest that the plan to assassinate a Saudi ambassador was concocted not by Mansour J. Arbabsiar, who thought he was overseeing a drug deal, but by the DEA informant working on behalf of the federal government.


“The legal document describing evidence in the case provides multiple indications that it was mainly the result of a Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) sting operation,” reports Asia Times’ Gareth Porter.

The document confirms that the assassination plan was “originated with and was strongly pushed by an undercover DEA [Department of Drug Enforcement] informant, at the direction of the FBI”.

Geopolitical experts have almost universally questioned why the highly professional Iranian Quds Force would hire a washed up used care salesman who had a drinking problem and a propensity for hookers to be the “mastermind” behind such a sophisticated operation, and why that operation would take place in the United States when it would be far easier to carry out the assassination in the middle east.

It now appears that Iranian-American patsy Mansour Arbabsiar thought he was merely involved in a drug deal to sell large amounts of opium from Afghanistan, and that the terrorist angle was introduced by “CS-1″ – the DEA informant working on behalf of the FBI.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/assassination-plot-was-pushed-by-dea-informant.html

At the purpose to activate war on Iran.

US House Committee Okays Sweeping Sanctions on Iran
by Jim Lobe, November 03, 2011

Amid growing tensions in the Middle East, including speculation about a possible Israeli attack on Iran, a key U.S. congressional committee Wednesday approved two bills that would impose sweeping new economic and diplomatic sanctions against Tehran.

http://original.antiwar.com/lobe/2011/11/02/us-house-committee-okays-sweeping-sanctions-on-iran/

------------------

Britain Prepares to Attack Iran
Defense Ministry Expects US to 'Fast-Forward' Plans for Attack
by Jason Ditz, November 02, 2011

With Defense Ministry officials saying that they believe the US may soon “fast-forward” plans to attack Iran, Britain’s military is stepping up its own preparations for such an attack under the assumption that they will join in on the war.
The planning is based on expectations that next week’s report from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) will be a “game changer” and will convince President Obama to launch another massive war.

It also comes just a day after reports in the Israeli press that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is hoping to convince the rest of his cabinet to launch a unilateral attack on Iran before winter on the argument that an autumn war would be much more convenient.
Though Netanyahu seems to be gaining some ground, there are a number of Israeli cabinet members who say it is their preference to convince the US to start the war instead. Though threats of an impending war against Iran have been coming off and on for over a decade, it seems the Obama Administration’s preference not to see Israel launch a disastrous unilateral war could convince them that the US should start its own disastrous unilateral war instead.

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/11/02/britain-prepares-to-attack-iran/

There have always been so-called strike plans in military back rooms for as long as. Such have happened here too amongst the West to test theories. Any such thing ever taken from theory on a computer to an actual would be an utterly futile and brain dead scheme that would not succeed.

Iran is NOT Iraq. The country has a history of involvement in it from the past and has long memories. Iran also has a very, very, deep seated patriotic fervour about it's sovereignty that would give a different situation totally from the Iraq mess. Any suggestion (and not discounted by the theorists) of Israel being involved would cause an even wider conflict across the Middle East. When will it ever be learned to stop interfering in other countries their way of life, etc? After all we ally to nations that have virtually no freedoms but when it suits us. Recently I was reminded of the Truman Doctrines but they also included allying, funding and supporting fascist dictatorships just because they were anti-Red. So much for principles.

692. Iran war (11/8/2011)

To justify a war on Iran, the accusation is that Iran is developing nuclear weapons. To push the Americans to support the war, the Feds did a lot of provocateur work.

1. Psychological work: Intimidate public with nuclear crisis. We saw on 3/11/2011, an earthquake in Japan which damaged the nuclear plant in Fukushima. Media blew the trumpet to make it another Chernobyl case. Then in June, (timing is important here. Remember the Operation Geronimo was on May 1st. ) They prepared two nuclear disasters in US. One was in Calhoun Nuclear Plant in Nebraska, the other one was in Los Alamos nuclear Lab in New Mexico.

Insiders knew the disaster to come in advance, gave a warning.

6/10/11 NASA Emails ALL Employees to PREPARE!
June 10, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZUPGw7p9I0&feature=player_embedded

“ Nebraska Nuclear Plant: Emergency Level 4 & Getting Worse -
June 14, 2011 (1of3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSvvmrB7qEg&feature=youtu.be “

“10 Mile Mandatory Evacuation Area at the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Plant
Posted on July 2, 2011 by admin
http://ncrenegade.com/editorial/10-mile-mandatory-evacuation-area-at-the-fort-calhoun-nuclear-plant

“Mandatory evacuation ordered as blaze threatens Los Alamos
Posted On Tuesday, June 28, 2011 By . Under WORLD

http://mysouth.su/2011/06/mandatory-evacuation-ordered-as-blaze-threatens-los-alamos/ “

You also can see how US media is under the control of the Feds. They didn’t report the disaster, although it was at #4 emergency level, same level Fukushima had had. They were waiting for a false flag nuclear attack from “Al Qaida”. They wanted to make a shock and awe. When people were frozen in nuclear panic, Pentagon could activate a war.

The nuclear disaster hadn’t developed further because their main case failed to go through.

2. A false flag nuclear attack to justify war on Iran.

(1) On April 25, Five days before “Operation Geronimo”, so said “Al Qaida” knew Bin Laden would be “killed” and threatened a nuclear attack.

"

Al-Qaeda Threatens to Unleash ‘Nuclear Hellstorm’ if bin Laden Caught

Posted by Ingrid Turner on Apr 25, 2011

Guantanamo Bay, Cuba (NEWSTABULOUS) – According to news reported by WikiLeaks, threats have been received from al-Qaeda terrorists, stating that they will “unleash a nuclear hellstorm” upon Western countries if Osama bin Laden is ever caught or killed.

http://newstabulous.com/al-qaeda-threatens-to-unleash-nuclear-hellstorm-if-bin-laden-caught/9761/

(2) May 1st, Operation Geronimo. Bin Laden was “killed” in a corpse less show.

(3) June 8, an announcement from Al Qaida justified the planned June nuke attack.

Bin Laden's No. 2: Muslims will destroy America

By BEN HUBBARD, Associated Press Ben Hubbard, Associated Press – Wed Jun 8, 4:24 pm ET
CAIRO – Osama bin Laden's deputy warned Wednesday that America faces not individual terrorists or groups but an international community of Muslims that seek to destroy it and its allies. He was delivering a 28-minute videotaped eulogy to slain al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110608/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_al_qaida_message

Though the June plot failed, the Feds still plans one before the end of the year – before Pentagon has to withdraw the troops from Iraq in 2011. So we saw Holder and Mueller have pushed out an “Iran is to assassinate Saudi Ambassador in US soil” case and now this news:

Correcting the ‘fairy tale’: A SEAL’s account of how Osama bin Laden really died
11/7/2011
http://news.yahoo.com/correcting-fairy-tale-seal-account-osama-bin-laden-054233289.html

Government changed the “kill Bin Laden” story again and again. It made their credit notorious low. They don’t care. Yesterday they let out a new one. What’s the purpose? My point of view: It’s a trick to remind public of Operation Geronimo. It’s a psychological tactic to let people believe it is a “revenge from Al Qaida” when a nuclear attack happens,.

693. Eric Holder and Operation “Fast and Furious” (11/14/2011)

In last article, I said, “The nuclear disaster hadn’t developed further because their main case failed to go through.” The main plot is to kill Kat Hak Sung in a framed case. In recent years, the Feds prepared so many times to create war on Iran with false flag terror attacks. All failed to go through because the main plot went soured. So in June, when they were creating two nuclear disasters in US, they also authorized themselves with extended illegal power.

FBI expands agents' reach
By Charlie Savage New York Times

WASHIGNGTO - The FBI is giving significant new powers to its roughly 14,000 agents - allowing them more leeway to search databases, go through household trash or use surveillance teams to scrutinize the lives of people who have attracted their attention.
(June 13, 2011 Mercury News)

The tactic is to authorize the Feds with power of unreasonable arrest and search. When they want to wrong someone they disliked, they only need to plant something illegal in his trash then they can make an arrest. It bypasses the Fourth Amendment. That rule is issued particularly on Kat Hak Sung. That’s obvious. Of course, the rule is against law. It doesn’t matter. They have convenient way. Let a political assigned official to take the responsibility. In August 2007 plot, (signaled by a B-52 loaded with nuclear missiles flying over US Continental on 8/30) President advisor Carl Rove and A.G. Gonzales both resigned on that day. Gonzales stayed a little longer later because the main plot (framed case) hadn’t been carried out. Now it’s A.G. Holder’s turn.

In recent weeks, there is a strong voice to demand the resignation of A.G. Eric Holder for his authorization of “Operation Fast and Furious”. He neglects the demand.

“ Rep. Joe Walsh to Eric Holder: You better resign immediately, buddy
October 26, 2011 by Tina Korbe
http://peakoilpetroleumandpreciousmetals.yuku.com/topic/14816/Congressional-Hearings-Operation-Gunrunner--Operation-Fast?page=6 “

“As a victim’s family speaks, 38 congressmen demand Eric Holder’s resignation
Published: 12:43 AM 11/10/2011

http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/10/as-a-victims-family-speaks-38-congressmen-demand-eric-holders-resignation/#ixzz1dXEpxHA4 “

Why Eric Holder clings to his office not to resign? He is waiting for a big case. When the FBI, DEA in Department of Justice commit a crime – killing people in a framed case, he’ll step down to take the responsibility. That’s the way how the Feds play the politics.

http://katsung47.yuku.com/forums/66

How does Iran run our Internal Affiars...

I watched a programme highlighting a scientist waxing on Iran and the bomb. It urned out that he wasn't an atomic scientist but added a clever theory to justify his stance! Struck me he was put up to it? Allbright was another mentioned and he was a dupe or just daft. So far it is half truths being fed to us as some kind of ground work for doing what the USA thinks "neccessary". They won't get any attack thorugh the UN this time like the nonesne used to attack Libya, Please not false Iraq dossiers style excuses again!

It is also a bit rich of Israel mumbling about a strike when it has the worse kept secret of it's own bomb. Maybe the Iranians should take them out for stealth bomb work? Eachy-peachy!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

I watched a programme highlighting a scientist waxing on Iran and the bomb. It urned out that he wasn't an atomic scientist but added a clever theory to justify his stance! Struck me he was put up to it? Allbright was another mentioned and he was a dupe or just daft. So far it is half truths being fed to us as some kind of ground work for doing what the USA thinks "neccessary". They won't get any attack thorugh the UN this time like the nonesne used to attack Libya, Please not false Iraq dossiers style excuses again!

David Albright?

The US? It strikes me that more were involved.

French fighter jets and U.S. and British warships, firing more than 110 cruise missiles from the Mediterranean Sea, struck multiple military targets.

See here.

Involved in what Jaybro? Aren't we talking about Iran? No-one has attacked yet although your rottweillers in Tel Aviv are straining at the leash. As for Libya that attack was blessed by your lot. It was just that they were trying to preserve a figleaf of PR stuff. If the US hadn't wanted that it wouldn't have happened and you know it. Remember Suez??

The USA is desperate for a chance to go for Iran and any story will suffice. The long tale of such since WW2 is littered with all sorts of stories to deal with anyone you don't like or won't succumb to your power or commercialism.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

The USA is desperate for a chance to go for Iran and any story will suffice. The long tale of such since WW2 is littered with all sorts of stories to deal with anyone you don't like or won't succumb to your power or commercialism.

I'd sure like to know where you get this stuff. Nothing I've seen so far supports this notion except you and Katsung-- and I personally take anything Katsung says with a very large grain of salt, any man who believes the Feds are capable of making earthquakes and causing tornadoes isn't exactly hitting on all cylinders if you get my meaning.

I'm throwing this in just for giggles. Problem: I suspect RJHowie and Katsung really believe this.

Oh dear naive syndrome rears it's head mjsmsprt40. You are no doubt a nice enough guy but dear, oh dear.

You lot have been involved in conflict after conflict since WW2 but you think folk like me are conjuring up some make-believe? It is a funny picture but it does in fact however resonance with folk outside the US Empire. It is just that those inside the country are myopic and think the world owes America it's existence and get miffed and scratch heads that it isn't appreciated. The history is long and condemning about the hypocrisy of the world's greatest democracy (laughing now). You have a sense of humour but inadvertently the world at large can have empathy with the fun picture as it is in reality near the truth!

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Originally posted by rjhowie:

The USA is desperate for a chance to go for Iran and any story will suffice. The long tale of such since WW2 is littered with all sorts of stories to deal with anyone you don't like or won't succumb to your power or commercialism.

RJ, I still want to know: Where's the beef? You and Katsung have been shouting that the United States is aching for a chance to go to war with Iran and that any excuse will do. OK, we've had reports for years that Iran either has or is planning to have nukes in the near future. That's reason enough and to spare. Why is our military not rolling? Could it be that we're not as anxious to make trouble in Iran as you two are saying?

Israel has more reason, as it happens, to move against Iran-- especially if Iran develops nuclear weapons-- and so far I hear nothing of them moving either. If something happens I expect them to move first, and it may be that the US might have to join in, but so far nothing moves.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

I'm throwing this in just for giggles. Problem: I suspect RJHowie and Katsung really believe this.

sad as this is true on many levels

Here's a hypothetical Dat One of the a war with Iran. The sound of buzzing like enraged bees would be heard across the Islamic world.

In the fullness of time, perhaps days:

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

Here's a hypothetical Dat One of the a war with Iran. The sound of buzzing like enraged bees would be heard across the Islamic world.

In the fullness of time, perhaps days:

Hes not that stupid, or that big of a coward.

You have more faith than me, my friend.

Just think of all the wars and invasions the US has decided to be involved in since WW2! I don't need to conjure up anything but the factual.

The thing that you have to remember dear Chicagoan, is that the US is "ruling nothing out". However the thing that puts military intervention on hold at present is the disasterous PR over Iraq and now the fiasco in Afghanistan. Oh and the there was the misuse of the UN Resolution to be able to do what was wanted in Libya. That won't happen again. I fear that US troops will be there for a long time in the Afghan increasing mess. You can only stretch a military so far but if your puppets in Tel Aviv were to stand in then vwolla, problem partially solved!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

You have more faith than me, my friend.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Just think of all the wars and invasions the US has decided to be involved in since WW2!

This is not faith. This is knowing Iran thinks the American Govt will be thrown off the horse by the people it swore to serve. The leader understands this, so he can move to more pressing matter. While the thought of a nuclear power plant in Iran, scary yes, is scary because of our one sided religious zealots who believe its Christianity or die. While yes the tali-ban is the extreme form, the zealots of the smoke called GOD, are in the same fucking boat.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Just think of all the wars and invasions the US has decided to be involved in since WW2! I don't need to conjure up anything but the factual.

The thing that you have to remember dear Chicagoan, is that the US is "ruling nothing out". However the thing that puts military intervention on hold at present is the disasterous PR over Iraq and now the fiasco in Afghanistan. Oh and the there was the misuse of the UN Resolution to be able to do what was wanted in Libya. That won't happen again. I fear that US troops will be there for a long time in the Afghan increasing mess. You can only stretch a military so far but if your puppets in Tel Aviv were to stand in then vwolla, problem partially solved!

It seems that my conjecture for the moment is right, at least according to Reuters. At this moment, the USA and Israel are not as ready to go to war against Iran as RJH and Katsung are ready for this to happen. See link below.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/22/us-iran-nuclear-options-idUSTRE7AL1AB20111122

Now, I'd be more than a little interested in where you get the notion that the US is all that anxious to go to war there.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/22/us-iran-nuclear-options-idUSTRE7AL1AB20111122

From the article:

But for now at least, experts say there was nothing in the IAEA report that makes military action more likely. If anything, it points to the limits of the effectiveness of a military campaign, which would have to be weighed against the risk of starting a potentially catastrophic regional war.

That and I'm not sure the war would remain regional, hence my photo above.

BUT:

"And once they do that they would start a very big war which would drag in almost every Middle East country and the United States," he said, adding that for now, Washington has been holding its Israeli allies back.

"Up until now, President Bush and President Obama have said don't do it. That's been documented," he said. "This is the multi-billion dollar question: are the Israelis misguided and impulsive enough not to ask the Americans for permission?"

No. They know the risks as well.

Unfortunately swearing to seve the people it has sworn to serve has been for so long the grandiose attitude the USA has to th world outside which it sees as it's right to sort out. Does places like the Pentagon work out theoretical situations including playing war games? Of course they do. They have even done it towards allies. In the end Israel will have to listen to the US because the US is it's daily provider and keeps it afloat because the loose cannon cannot afford to stand on it's own two feet.

Considering the fiasco the IFD got into the last time it tried to invade south Lebanon and left with it'sd tail between it's legs it would not be up to an Iranian push-over like Iraq. Nothing more would push the two internal sides together in Iran than a US or equally an individual affression by Israel. When you sonsider that the lot under President Bush would have been itching to go for Iran it is not a complete mythology of tackling Iran. I am far from liking the Iranian President but he would become a hero overnight in te ME regarding any physical attack. Anyway there is no way the US-Israel love affair would get any motion through the UN and even more so after the Libyan one was hijacked.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

and I personally take anything Katsung says with a very large grain of salt, any man who believes the Feds are capable of making earthquakes and causing tornadoes isn't exactly hitting on all cylinders if you get my meaning.

I would still like to refer the words from former Secretary of Defense and hope people wouldn't be fooled by cyberspace swift boat team's cover up.

DoD News Briefing: Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen
April 28, 1997

Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674

Iran's Supreme Leader Khomeni can take a look at that mistletoe hanging from the seat of my pants.

The sooner that rat bas**rd dies the better off Iran's young, Iran as a whole and the world will be.

*flips bird to Khomeni*

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Iran's Supreme Leader Khomeni can take a look at that mistletoe hanging from the seat of my pants.

The only things he takes a look at is a bunch of daisies, from below
You probably mean this guy, and now we know what he's been looking at

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Iran's Supreme Leader Khomeni can take a look at that mistletoe hanging from the seat of my pants.

The only things he takes a look at is a bunch of daisies, from below
You probably mean this guy, and now we know what he's been looking at

Yeah, that's him.

My brain's wires are still crossed from doing a study of the Asian nations this semester.
Thanks for the correction Mac!

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

My brain's wires are still crossed from doing a study of the Asian nations this semester.
Thanks for the correction Mac!

Their names are kinda similar, I'm sure they did that intentionally, just to screw with people

I dare say katsung47 that even when you do produce items that tell the truth Americans will always be in a state of denial. It's the way they are brought up and so easy to manipulate with the corporate media braining them?

Originally posted by katsung47:

I would still like to refer the words from former Secretary of Defense and hope people wouldn't be fooled by cyberspace swift boat team's cover up. DoD News Briefing: Secretary of Defense William S. CohenApril 28, 1997 Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves. So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important. http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674

This is beyond awful. Cohen was talking about what others had said, viz. Toeffler. Still, it was silly of him to do so.

Originally posted by katsung47:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

and I personally take anything Katsung says with a very large grain of salt, any man who believes the Feds are capable of making earthquakes and causing tornadoes isn't exactly hitting on all cylinders if you get my meaning.

I would still like to refer the words from former Secretary of Defense and hope people wouldn't be fooled by cyberspace swift boat team's cover up.

DoD News Briefing: Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen
April 28, 1997

Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674

"Swift-boat teams", eh??? Man, you have been drinking deep of the Kool-Aid.

Also, selective quoting. Hmmmm..... Seems when you actually read the link it doesn't necessarily show that the United States is up to "eco-terrorism", but might be trying to find out how to defeat terrorist organisations that might try something like that. Not that it's even remotely possible-- outside of a sci-fi novel-- to do it. The Death Star makes a great prop on a "Star Wars" movie set but there's no reality to it. Here's the full quote below.:

""Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.

A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.""

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674

So--- the full passage turns out to be about trying to defend against "phantom menaces" and not real threats-- but stuff that still creates problems inside an agency that is supposed to defend us. For the rest-- read the full link. It's not a long piece, if printed out I doubt that it would cover a legal-size sheet of paper (US Legal size is 8.5"x 14") so it's not long-winded. It looks to me to be a statement about how the US would respond to terrorist threats in 1997. Note: One thing nearly threw me until I recalled an earlier incident, and that is the following statement;

""We've seen by way of example of the World Trade Center the international aspects of international terrorism coming to our home territory. We've also seen domestic terrorism with the Oklahoma bombing. So it's a real threat that's here today. It's likely to intensify in the years to come as more and more groups have access to this kind of information and the ability to produce them.""

For a moment, the mention of the WTC threw me because I knew the big one that took place on 9.11.2001, like we all saw. I had forgotten about the earlier truck-bombing that happened there some years earlier. For a moment, this passage almost made me think this link was a put-up job by certain people (we won't name names here), but once I recalled the truck-bomb incident at WTC that helped in following the rest of the story.

Note about swift-boats and "yours truly": I never did favor powered boats, I've always been something of a wind-jammer man in full-size boats. I had a couple of halfway decent RC models that had power, but that had to be given up a couple of years back. "Swift-boats" indeed!!!

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Originally posted by katsung47:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

and I personally take anything Katsung says with a very large grain of salt, any man who believes the Feds are capable of making earthquakes and causing tornadoes isn't exactly hitting on all cylinders if you get my meaning.

I would still like to refer the words from former Secretary of Defense and hope people wouldn't be fooled by cyberspace swift boat team's cover up.

DoD News Briefing: Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen
April 28, 1997

Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674

"Swift-boat teams", eh??? Man, you have been drinking deep of the Kool-Aid.

Also, selective quoting. Hmmmm..... Seems when you actually read the link it doesn't necessarily show that the United States is up to "eco-terrorism", but might be trying to find out how to defeat terrorist organisations that might try something like that. Not that it's even remotely possible-- outside of a sci-fi novel-- to do it. The Death Star makes a great prop on a "Star Wars" movie set but there's no reality to it. Here's the full quote below.:

""Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.

A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.""

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674

So--- the full passage turns out to be about trying to defend against "phantom menaces" and not real threats-- but stuff that still creates problems inside an agency that is supposed to defend us.

That's easily the most blatant quotemine this side of a Bantay rant. Next thing you know Isaac Newton and Nostradamus will support his delusions

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Originally posted by katsung47:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

and I personally take anything Katsung says with a very large grain of salt, any man who believes the Feds are capable of making earthquakes and causing tornadoes isn't exactly hitting on all cylinders if you get my meaning.

I would still like to refer the words from former Secretary of Defense and hope people wouldn't be fooled by cyberspace swift boat team's cover up.

DoD News Briefing: Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen
April 28, 1997

Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674

"Swift-boat teams", eh??? Man, you have been drinking deep of the Kool-Aid.

Also, selective quoting. Hmmmm..... Seems when you actually read the link it doesn't necessarily show that the United States is up to "eco-terrorism", but might be trying to find out how to defeat terrorist organisations that might try something like that. Not that it's even remotely possible-- outside of a sci-fi novel-- to do it. The Death Star makes a great prop on a "Star Wars" movie set but there's no reality to it. Here's the full quote below.:

""Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.

A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.""

http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674

So--- the full passage turns out to be about trying to defend against "phantom menaces" and not real threats-- but stuff that still creates problems inside an agency that is supposed to defend us. For the rest-- read the full link. It's not a long piece, if printed out I doubt that it would cover a legal-size sheet of paper (US Legal size is 8.5"x 14") so it's not long-winded. It looks to me to be a statement about how the US would respond to terrorist threats in 1997. Note: One thing nearly threw me until I recalled an earlier incident, and that is the following statement;

""We've seen by way of example of the World Trade Center the international aspects of international terrorism coming to our home territory. We've also seen domestic terrorism with the Oklahoma bombing. So it's a real threat that's here today. It's likely to intensify in the years to come as more and more groups have access to this kind of information and the ability to produce them.""

For a moment, the mention of the WTC threw me because I knew the big one that took place on 9.11.2001, like we all saw. I had forgotten about the earlier truck-bombing that happened there some years earlier. For a moment, this passage almost made me think this link was a put-up job by certain people (we won't name names here), but once I recalled the truck-bomb incident at WTC that helped in following the rest of the story.

Note about swift-boats and "yours truly": I never did favor powered boats, I've always been something of a wind-jammer man in full-size boats. I had a couple of halfway decent RC models that had power, but that had to be given up a couple of years back. "Swift-boats" indeed!!!

Though Cohen blame it on "others", who is the "others"? Who has ability to research, develope such kind of weapons? Who has the resource to build it? Who has the largest military budget?

HAARP & Weather Control

Date: 04-04-11
Host: George Noory
Guests: Brooks Agnew, Oliver Williams

Electrical engineer and researcher Brooks Agnew talked about Project HAARP-styled technology, used by the U.S., China and Russia to artificially manipulate the ionosphere & weather, and potentially control populations and armies. By using different frequencies, HAARP technology can cause structures in the ground to vibrate, bringing on geologic effects such as earthquakes, he explained. The recent quake in Japan might have been induced this way, he speculated, adding that of the countries that have this technology, China would have the most to gain by Japan's loss. There were also signs (a lavender colored sky) just before the quakes in Chile and Haiti that indicate possible involvement of the technology, he added.

Using HAARP technology to manipulate the weather is the "perfect weapon" that leaves no fingerprints-- "It's [viewed as] an act of God that comes in and directs a hurricane into your path, or starves you out of rain for a couple years, or causes a summer of heat so bad that your wheat cooks into dust," Agnew commented (he demonstrated some of this technology on an episode of Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura). HAARP techniques have also been applied as a non-lethal weapon/psychological operation during wartime, as well as possible experiments on civilians, he detailed.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2011/04/04

http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/images/hpimage.jpg

Kat, it has to be believable. If you tell me that the United States can park a carrier group off of the West Coast of Scotland and give RJHowie a hard time, I can believe that. It's technologically possible to do that, and I'd bet that RJ would sweat up a storm if the US Navy did that. Try to tell me that any technology presently on Earth can generate Earthquakes and tornadoes and hurricanes, well, there you're going to have a much harder sell. Such technology simply doesn't exist outside of sci-fi movies and conspiracy theories. With all the technology at our disposal, I don't know if we could generate a credible dust-devil, much less a tornado of the size that hit Joplin this past spring.

Next question: If, indeed, the US military had the power to generate earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes and big snowstorms, why do they unleash these things on their own homeland and against nations we are friends with? Wouldn't it make more sense to use such weapons against the enemies of the US? Let Iran or North Korea know that we can direct a tornado to hit them any time we want to, and I'd bet they come to the bargaining table in a hurry.

Once again, how about a credible link??? "Coast to coast" is anything but credible. I've had occasion to listen to it, and it caters to the crowd that doesn't sleep well at night because they've already got too much to worry about-- so here's some more to worry about! Your neighbor could be a secret space alien! Here's what to watch for so you can know! Stuff in your drinking water may cause hangnails, here's what to do about that! Government drones may be spying into your bedroom window! Get better shades to prevent it from our sponsors! And, it goes on and on like this all night long.

Me into a sweat about the prowess of American military? Nae chance ma fine dreamer. I'd sens a Company of the local Boys' Brigade and a Scout Troop while they're running about going "oooh, ooh, oohh, let's move it " and such. And while they ar running about all being technicians (no Private ranks left?) I'd be kicking their proverbial a. Landing in the West of Scotland would be there biggest mistake since the Battle of the Bulge! However I would be worried if their was a special force from Illinois trying to bribe us into surrender.

On a more concerning report, Russia has made it clear that if any American or NATO troops were to land in Iraq it would not be sitting by. Troops have already been moved to a suitable base and training under way. And using the phrase America always uses at the start of moving against someone "with technical experts".

A little bit of research is in order. Real research, not conspiracy nutbag research.

About man-made earthquakes: It appears that Tesla may have been able to produce earthquake-like effects during an experiment in the 1890s. He used a small steam engine mounted to the frame of his building, and apparently the earthquake effect was an unintended side-effect of the machine. It was extremely local in nature, affecting his building and some nearby buildings. It was also an entirely mechanical effect. It required a seriously out-of-balance steam engine to produce the effect, which is one reason most pictures of steam engines you see have huge counter-balance weights opposite the crank-pins.
Thought: HAARP might produce an earthquake, but only if it can produce steam to drive a seriously out-of-balance steam engine, and then only in the building which houses the steam engine itself. This would likely happen on-site, so would be a novelty to be studied-- otherwise, Nada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla%27s_oscillator

The above information was pulled from a Wikipedea page about HAARP, concerning the conspiracy theories, link here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Frequency_Active_Auroral_Research_Program

The HAARP official website has a FAQ sheet-- surprise, surprise. They tell you something of what they do there, and what they may be capable-or not capable-- of doing there.
http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/faq.html

Google starts to go astray real quick, there's one conspiracy site after another, each one posing that HAARP can cause effects ranging from the stuff Kat has been posting on to whether or not your kids will eat their spinach-- and how HAARP affects whether kids will eat spinach. If ignorance were dollars----.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

About man-made earthquakes: It appears that Tesla may have been able to produce earthquake-like effects during an experiment in the 1890s. He used a small steam engine mounted to the frame of his building, and apparently the earthquake effect was an unintended side-effect of the machine. It was extremely local in nature, affecting his building and some nearby buildings. It was also an entirely mechanical effect. It required a seriously out-of-balance steam engine to produce the effect, which is one reason most pictures of steam engines you see have huge counter-balance weights opposite the crank-pins.

They tested this on Mythbusters a few episodes ago. While they managed to produce resonance with relatively little force, the myth was definitely busted insofar as any earthquake-like effects were concerned. (But of course that depends on what you mean by earthquake-like effects; there was some shaking.)

I'm more concerned about Iran and itchy fingers never mind any possible confrontation with the Russians.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

About man-made earthquakes: It appears that Tesla may have been able to produce earthquake-like effects during an experiment in the 1890s. He used a small steam engine mounted to the frame of his building, and apparently the earthquake effect was an unintended side-effect of the machine. It was extremely local in nature, affecting his building and some nearby buildings. It was also an entirely mechanical effect. It required a seriously out-of-balance steam engine to produce the effect, which is one reason most pictures of steam engines you see have huge counter-balance weights opposite the crank-pins.

They tested this on Mythbusters a few episodes ago. While they managed to produce resonance with relatively little force, the myth was definitely busted insofar as any earthquake-like effects were concerned. (But of course that depends on what you mean by earthquake-like effects; there was some shaking.)

I found it, another Wiki article. Interesting point about this: Many of the articles that Kat and friends will bring up mention Tesla's experiments. They fail to mention exactly what Tesla was doing and how, and they fail utterly to explain how HAARP could, in any way, duplicate Tesla's experiment-- especially on such a grand scale as the earthquake that hit Japan earlier this year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(2006_season)#Episode_60_.E2.80.93_.22Earthquake_Machine.22

By all means bodyswerve the Iran situation and itchy fingers especially with Russia taking an active interest mjmsprt40. However that is more serious than this detour on earthquakes. Russia has already despatched troops to a base as near as it can be and speicalised troop training done. It has said it would offer "technical assistance" if any troops actually invade Iran which I think is more pressing than this waffle off. If the US thinks that Moscow is somehow huffing and puffing they would be making a monumental mistake and being very blinkered.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

By all means bodyswerve the Iran situation and itchy fingers especially with Russia taking an active interest mjmsprt40. However that is more serious than this detour on earthquakes. Russia has already despatched troops to a base as near as it can be and speicalised troop training done. It has said it would offer "technical assistance" if any troops actually invade Iran which I think is more pressing than this waffle off. If the US thinks that Moscow is somehow huffing and puffing they would be making a monumental mistake and being very blinkered.

Sources, sources, sources. Where's the link so others can follow what you're talking about here???? First, at this point I haven't heard anything about US troops hitting the ground in Iran-- in fact, right now our people are rejoicing that our boys are coming home-- to stay-- from Iraq. Right now, we've got a president who doesn't seem to want to start trouble elsewhere, which is one of the very few good things you'll ever hear me say about the present occupant of the Oval Office.

Personal thought: Invading Iran may be a huge mistake for either Russia or the US to make. It's something of a touchstone for much bigger trouble than anybody really wants.

I got it from tv news as it happens - and from a Russian report from Moscow. The offical sources are not talking about neccessarily sending in troops on and land invasion dumpedo n the Iranians It is more providing equipment, supplies and technical support which would be great. As for falling back on there being no plan to land US troops, I do hope that is the case becaue your history since WW2 has been one long succesion of military endeavours everywhere it sees fit. Often it is seen elsewhere as the biggest stumbling block to the whole idea of peace in the world. I dare say there are Pentagon hawks dying to get there and would die in practice. However on this occasion I think even the most intelligent of US awareness sources knows that an invasion there would blow up in their faces. However any thought of getting round that by shutting a blind eye yo their puppets in Tel Aviv who the US funds and keeps from financially going under would be another catastrophe.

Nice of you to try and balance it by it being a mistake for either Russia or America you can forget that one. Russia has been making no noises abit dealing with Iran but your lot has. Russia would only respond if you did as I say a land invasion. It may well be a move that will mever happpen but I recall how Iraq was invaded on lies.

"Our puppet" Israel hasn't been going at the idea of raiding Iran lately either, as it happens. I'm sure they're keeping close watch on the place though. They have a "survival stake" if Iran develops a nuke and shows willingness to use it against Israel. In that case, expect a pre-emptive strike by Israel against the nuclear site. Otherwise, expect feverish posts by Katsung about the United States staging an invasion of Iran in order to cover placing bugs in Katsung's trash bins. Or, maybe the Feds do it to create a diversion the next time his wife visits K-Mart. Or something like that.

Well the jury is still out on your Tel Aviv puppet on the nuclear stuff and them not admitting whether they have the bomb! Israel is torn internally at the momnet with much social and political unrest as well as increasing gaps between rich and poor. No doubt it gives the Tel Aviv hawks the chance to try and keep minds away from that by fuming abour Iran? You were the lot who years ago strung along with Iran under the Shah. When he had to leave you refused to allow your ally (who was dying) to stay in the USA. The usual amoral US policy of course.

Anyway, how could Iran use nuclear without it effecting others in the ME with the fall-out? Personally I am not convinced Iran has the bomb and I think the mouthy President of Iran is being devilish funny by cleverly teasing America and Israel. N. Korea is a bigger prob than Iran. Because you can't attack Iran militarily because it would never get through the UN like previous con jobs subtle propaganda is the fall-back.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

About man-made earthquakes: It appears that Tesla may have been able to produce earthquake-like effects during an experiment in the 1890s.

I can do the same by jumping up and down on the living room floor.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

About man-made earthquakes: It appears that Tesla may have been able to produce earthquake-like effects during an experiment in the 1890s.

I can do the same by jumping up and down on the living room floor.

Oh, boy, the memories: I had a model train layout set up in a room in my parent's basement. It was on a plywood table, set up on saw-horses, in a small room that probably had been a bedroom before my parents bought the house.

One day, my younger brother was playing with the set-- or trying to, any way, and not having much luck at it. Unbeknown to him, my youngest brother had put a piece of tape across the tracks and the train would derail at that point. I spotted the tape, and that threw younger brother into a jumping fit. Train cars jumped several inches, some went to the floor, and ever after that day came to be known as the Great Train-Room Earthquake.

Too true but when it comes to the money barons who run the country seems worth the bother. I mean considering the damage they have done to the US few of them ever get punished unlike the millions finding daily life in the ex-Colonies exceedingly fraught and difficult. A tv news item on Friday stated that there had been an 80% increase in people going to food banks to simply exist and now mostly from previously okay families.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

The usual amoral US policy of course.
...........
Because you can't attack Iran militarily because it would never get through the UN like previous con jobs subtle propaganda is the fall-back.

The UN!?

Surely, you jest.

Had there been some form of "UN" in the heyday, would England have foregone it's gluttonous ways in the world? Some of us have pitiful historical memories.

Only when a republic's life is in danger should a man uphold his government when it is in the wrong. There is no other time.

That's Mark Twain, not William Pitt.

RJ, we've been exceedingly merciful towards you. If we were of a mind to do it, we could have a field day dredging up all the stuff the British Empire did throughout its history. The Opium War comes to mind as an example, I came across that while reading up on the clipper ships. Seems the English love their tea, and in order to get tea they forced the Chinese to accept the importation of Opium in trade.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

RJ, we've been exceedingly merciful towards you. If we were of a mind to do it, we could have a field day dredging up all the stuff the British Empire did throughout its history. The Opium War comes to mind as an example, I came across that while reading up on the clipper ships. Seems the English love their tea, and in order to get tea they forced the Chinese to accept the importation of Opium in trade.

Tea/opium. Opium/tea. I feel a disconnect deep within my moral bowels.

British governments have rarely blanched at armaments as a staple of trade. The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills has its own Defence & Security Organisation to promote arms exports, with palpable success: Britain is one of the world’s biggest exporters of defence goods and services, usually ranking after America, with a market share averaging 21% over the past five years. Orders usually hover just over £4 billion ($6.6 billion) a year, though they were boosted in 2007 to £9.7 billion by a big order from Saudi Arabia for fighter-jets (see chart). These days the big buyers are Gulf Arab states, Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore. The Brazilian navy is almost entirely British-equipped, though some of the kit is second-hand.

Nae chance mjmsprt40. America was to be the country with the grearest democracy, show what equality etc, etc was. And what actually happened? You became instead a country run by big buisness and the military. Your own internal history is one long example of sheer hypocrisy that makes a mockery of the Statue of Liberty, Declarations, Constitution or whatever. Find sounding words but rarely in practice.

Outside, you decided to govern the world right up to modern times as a corporate and military empire. You spread your corruption globally. Undermined countries you didn't like or wouldn't allow domination, invaded, started wars and made a comedy of the principles "enshrined". And all that right into modern times when other imperial empires were well gone. It is a land with a popualtion that has fear drummed into it of attacks hence the global lists of forts everywhere. Like children and easily brained.

I think I have shown some mercy in exposing the 200 year plus list of complete ignoring of the founding fathers of the "great Republic". You are still at it here and when some of you do find out how the rest of the world sees you there is either a puzzlement or annoyance at the world not being appreciative. I stand by what I say that the average American hasn't much of clue about the outside world or the increasing unhappines if feels towards you.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Kat, it has to be believable. If you tell me that the United States can park a carrier group off of the West Coast of Scotland and give RJHowie a hard time, I can believe that. It's technologically possible to do that, and I'd bet that RJ would sweat up a storm if the US Navy did that. Try to tell me that any technology presently on Earth can generate Earthquakes and tornadoes and hurricanes, well, there you're going to have a much harder sell. Such technology simply doesn't exist outside of sci-fi movies and conspiracy theories. With all the technology at our disposal, I don't know if we could generate a credible dust-devil, much less a tornado of the size that hit Joplin this past spring.

Next question: If, indeed, the US military had the power to generate earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes and big snowstorms, why do they unleash these things on their own homeland and against nations we are friends with? Wouldn't it make more sense to use such weapons against the enemies of the US? Let Iran or North Korea know that we can direct a tornado to hit them any time we want to, and I'd bet they come to the bargaining table in a hurry.

Once again, how about a credible link??? "Coast to coast" is anything but credible. I've had occasion to listen to it, and it caters to the crowd that doesn't sleep well at night because they've already got too much to worry about-- so here's some more to worry about! Your neighbor could be a secret space alien! Here's what to watch for so you can know! Stuff in your drinking water may cause hangnails, here's what to do about that! Government drones may be spying into your bedroom window! Get better shades to prevent it from our sponsors! And, it goes on and on like this all night long.

1. I don't try to convince you on this. You have a mission here. I debate with you just to let other people know the truth.

2. How do you know US hadn't applied these weapons on enemy? Will a thief admit that he stole something?

Russian Report: U.S. weapon against Iran caused Haiti earthquake

January 23, 8:55 PM
Toronto Headlines Examiner

http://www.examiner.com/x-32127-Toronto-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m1d23-Russian-Report-US-weapon-against-Iran-caused-Haiti-earthquake "

Quote, "March 8, 2010

“You’re Next? US Warns Iran After Turkey Earthquake Hit

By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers

Russian military intelligence directorate (GRU) sources are reporting to Prime Minister Putin that during an unprecedented meeting held between Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and United States Secretary of Defense Robert Gates this morning in Kabul, Afghanistan, the Persian Nation was bluntly told by the US that they were next to be targeted by their HAARP Earthquake Weapon that has been terrorizing the entire World these past few months.

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1349.htm

3. Once again, your use "credible link", or "acceptable source" to confuse people. I have made it clear in other thread. Repeat: "That's from different angle, we have different view. If I believe your acceptable source, then I would have believe there is "WMD" in Iraq and know nothing about the new "National Defense Authorization Act" because the so said mainstream media won't report on that kind of news. Sorry, I know what kind of person you are. Your work is vain.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Nae chance mjmsprt40. America was to be the country with the grearest democracy, show what equality etc, etc was. And what actually happened? You became instead a country run by big buisness and the military. Your own internal history is one long example of sheer hypocrisy that makes a mockery of the Statue of Liberty, Declarations, Constitution or whatever. Find sounding words but rarely in practice.

Outside, you decided to govern the world right up to modern times as a corporate and military empire. You spread your corruption globally. Undermined countries you didn't like or wouldn't allow domination, invaded, started wars and made a comedy of the principles "enshrined". And all that right into modern times when other imperial empires were well gone. It is a land with a popualtion that has fear drummed into it of attacks hence the global lists of forts everywhere. Like children and easily brained.

I think I have shown some mercy in exposing the 200 year plus list of complete ignoring of the founding fathers of the "great Republic". You are still at it here and when some of you do find out how the rest of the world sees you there is either a puzzlement or annoyance at the world not being appreciative. I stand by what I say that the average American hasn't much of clue about the outside world or the increasing unhappines if feels towards you.

Oh, the sleep I lose. Lithuania hates me! Scotland hates me! Woe is me! Granting all of my shortcomings, I'm still not a Scot. Glory be!

Originally posted by katsung47:

3. Once again, your use "credible link", or "acceptable source" to confuse people. I have made it clear in other thread. Repeat: "That's from different angle, we have different view. If I believe your acceptable source, then I would have believe there is "WMD" in Iraq and know nothing about the new "National Defense Authorization Act" because the so said mainstream media won't report on that kind of news. Sorry, I know what kind of person you are. Your work is vain.

And you are better cuz of it. He may miss a point here or there, but he is quite frequently accurate of our world. And for our world i mean america. I don't know what your angle is but, i don't understand why you pull the whole you speak, im offended horseshit. I get real annoyed when people take offense to everything others do then we must live like a handful. Im sorry but if you dont like the truth go live in your fantasy life so i can live my own without worrying if your gonna screw mine.

Three excellent words from your grey cells there (bla, blah, blah) Jaybro to cover the misdeeds of your bullying warlike nation. Kind of simple fig-leaves for a litany of historical hypocrisy that contradicts. Never thought you would slip into the redneck or average US blinkered brainwashing. But an amusing attempt however.

And now it appears that America has been flying over Iran for ages now spying on it. At the same time there is still no proof that Iran is making a bomb. It would be daft for it to do so never mind but your machiniations and fears (traditional for Yanks to be taught) as there would be repercussions on itself. The Iranian President may well be sometimes cuckoo but he is having a wonderful time pulling your chain and having a political laugh.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Three excellent words from your grey cells there (bla, blah, blah) Jaybro to cover the misdeeds of your bullying warlike nation. Kind of simple fig-leaves for a litany of historical hypocrisy that contradicts. Never thought you would slip into the redneck or average US blinkered brainwashing. But an amusing attempt however.

And now it appears that America has been flying over Iran for ages now spying on it. At the same time there is still no proof that Iran is making a bomb. It would be daft for it to do so never mind but your machiniations and fears (traditional for Yanks to be taught) as there would be repercussions on itself. The Iranian President may well be sometimes cuckoo but he is having a wonderful time pulling your chain and having a political laugh.

Give me the money that has been spent in war and I will clothe every man, woman, and child in an attire of which kings and queens will be proud. I will build a schoolhouse in every valley over the whole earth. I will crown every hillside with a place of worship consecrated to peace.
-Charles Sumner-

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Three excellent words from your grey cells there (bla, blah, blah) Jaybro to cover the misdeeds of your bullying warlike nation. Kind of simple fig-leaves for a litany of historical hypocrisy that contradicts. Never thought you would slip into the redneck or average US blinkered brainwashing. But an amusing attempt however.

And now it appears that America has been flying over Iran for ages now spying on it. At the same time there is still no proof that Iran is making a bomb. It would be daft for it to do so never mind but your machiniations and fears (traditional for Yanks to be taught) as there would be repercussions on itself. The Iranian President may well be sometimes cuckoo but he is having a wonderful time pulling your chain and having a political laugh.

Pull away, Sir Ahmadinejad! Tweak our Yankee noses. Meanwhile, closer to home....

Friday, December 9, 2011 Flotilla to shoot fireworks off Cuba today BY ADAM LINHARDT Citizen Staff alinhardt@keysnews.com Under the Coast Guard's watchful eye, a flotilla will head from Key West to offshore Cuba today to set off fireworks in a display of solidarity of opponents of the Communist government living on the island country.

Will we never learn?

No, you won't!

I agree you won't ever learn beacuse you are really in a dictatorship with a democratic veneer. You'll keep being empirical even if you went bankrupt. Time for a post-Empire situation is overdue then years of sore adapting and become liked again - like you once were.

Originally posted by Virusboy:

Originally posted by katsung47:

3. Once again, your use "credible link", or "acceptable source" to confuse people. I have made it clear in other thread. Repeat: "That's from different angle, we have different view. If I believe your acceptable source, then I would have believe there is "WMD" in Iraq and know nothing about the new "National Defense Authorization Act" because the so said mainstream media won't report on that kind of news. Sorry, I know what kind of person you are. Your work is vain.

And you are better cuz of it. He may miss a point here or there, but he is quite frequently accurate of our world. And for our world i mean america. I don't know what your angle is but, i don't understand why you pull the whole you speak, im offended horseshit. I get real annoyed when people take offense to everything others do then we must live like a handful. Im sorry but if you dont like the truth go live in your fantasy life so i can live my own without worrying if your gonna screw mine.

Miss a point here and there? frequently accurate of our world? The points you missed were massive and big.
There are so many doubts on 911 truths, we only can learn them from the Internet. Any cover up from the mainstream media?
More than 100,000 of Iraqi civilians lost their lives. Nearly a trillion dollars were used in an unjust war that drives US into financial problem. And you easily make it "miss a point here and there. So the next missing point will be Iran?

Someone likes to use beautiflul words to cover up their crimes. They use Patriot to cover up a stealing of civil rights. (Patriot Act) They use defense to cover up aggression. (NDAA) Is it too shameless that when you kill, rape people in Iraq, Afghanistan - that's other people's homeland, you say it's for "democracy", "freedom" and it's "defense"? So much for your truth.

The sentiment may be strong but Katsung does touch on salient points. My only musing is on figures for Iraqui dead. Everything is always exaggerated from WW2 to Iraq and Afghanistan. Things like the Patriot Act and the latest Bill which Obama says he will not exercise all it's points (?) are valid issues. Often the rhetoric of the US does not match it's actions.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Seems the English love their tea,

Now, that's just a blatant racial stereotype!

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

and in order to get tea they forced the Chinese to accept the importation of Opium in trade.

I think it's best to gloss over this bit.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

I agree you won't ever learn beacuse you are really in a dictatorship with a democratic veneer. You'll keep being empirical even if you went bankrupt. Time for a post-Empire situation is overdue then years of sore adapting and become liked again - like you once were.

Of course we are. Our version of the NKVD stopped by for coffee this breakfast.

In the U.K., part of the European Union but not the euro zone, industrial production slumped 0.6% in November compared with a month earlier and by 3.1% on the year—the worst performance since December 2009, the Office for National Statistics said Thursday.

Becoming 'liked' again? How quaint. Will you like me, Robert? Is the UK liked again?

Post empire. Tell me about the Malvinas Islands, Rj. You folks are still at it. The closest US equivalent is Guantanamo in Cuba, and I'm all for getting us out of there. Oops, I forgot Guam, where I spent two 'happy' years. And Puerto Rico. Jeez, we're both still at it, aren't we?

The reality of it is that our governments just roll on without asking us. But, then, we don't push either. I'm guessing that most Americans don't have a clue of where Guam is or who 'owns' it. Is there a raging public outcry in the UK over the Malvinas?

Originally posted by katsung47:

Miss a point here and there? frequently accurate of our world? The points you missed were massive and big. There are so many doubts on 911 truths, we only can learn them from the Internet. Any cover up from the mainstream media? More than 100,000 of Iraqi civilians lost their lives. Nearly a trillion dollars were used in an unjust war that drives US into financial problem. And you easily make it "miss a point here and there. So the next missing point will be Iran? Someone likes to use beautiflul words to cover up their crimes. They use Patriot to cover up a stealing of civil rights. (Patriot Act) They use defense to cover up aggression. (NDAA) Is it too shameless that when you kill, rape people in Iraq, Afghanistan - that's other people's homeland, you say it's for "democracy", "freedom" and it's "defense"? So much for your truth.

what you miss is this is known by many here. however, you seem to forget every leader of every country will and has done this. So your surprise of America doing this is well, sad. And your dependency on the Internet for truth is a little disheartening. And what war hasn't raped the citizens or military, pillaged the stores or currency(it being usable in other countries) or food and commodities, and killed millions just cause they could?. Your view on everything posted is somewhat immature. we all know what past empires have done. To be honest, the rage pillaging and what not are rewards of war, so cmon, get a clue and get real.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Post empire.

How much self restraint does it cost you to not jump on him for constantly confuddling 'empirical' with 'imperial(ist)'

Originally posted by Macallan:

How much self restraint does it cost you to not jump on him for constantly confuddling 'empirical' with 'imperial(ist)'

He obviously hasn't gone metric yet.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

In the U.K., part of the European Union but not the euro zone, industrial production slumped 0.6% in November compared with a month earlier and by 3.1% on the year—the worst performance since December 2009, the Office for National Statistics said Thursday.

Oh joy! Let's celebrate Limey unemployment & working class misery induced by industrial slumping. Yeah, that'll make you Limeys drink less tea won't it. Let's laugh at Limey hospitals closing & education cuts as well while we're at it. Oh joy & fun ...

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Scotland hates me! Woe is me! Granting all of my shortcomings, I'm still not a Scot. Glory be!

The Scots aren't actually racist, they hate everybody else equally. So there is no bigotry. Personally I'm so looking forward to devolution.

More murder of Iranian scientists: still terrorism?

Originally posted by Kevin Drum:

I imagine a lot of people agree with [Reynolds], but his recommendation really demonstrates the moral knot caused by George Bush’s insistence that we’re fighting a “war on terror.” After all, killing civilian scientists and civilian leaders, even if you do it quietly, is unquestionably terrorism. That’s certainly what we’d consider it if Hezbollah fighters tried to kill cabinet undersecretaries and planted bombs at the homes of Los Alamos engineers.

If you think Iran is a mortal enemy that needs to be dealt with via military force, you can certainly make that case. But if you’re going to claim that terrorism is a barbaric tactic that has to be stamped out, you can hardly endorse its use by the United States just because it’s convenient in this particular case.

I support terrorism, but only when used by the good guys...that's us.

A truly American rational answer Jaybro?!

If you want to see practical racial hate just take a trip over the Border to England where it is practiced on wide proportions - especially in the North. Plus when it comes to the breakdown in social cohesion, England is the no 1 along with a police force that cannot macth the Scottish experience.Seems OperaBloke is also politically immature, as Scotland got "devolution" about a decade ago. Tut, tut. By the way Ulster and Wales got it too in case he hadn't noticed?

It is always amusing that those who think they are so bright here and great with words so easily throw in the word hate. Never once here have I indicated I hated anyone so it just shows how ignorance can creaa forumulated perceptions (!).

Originally posted by rjhowie:

OperaBloke is also politically immature,

Either way, he's grammatically mature enough to know the difference between 'practised' & 'practiced'. Practice makes perfect, although looking at the state of your grammar & spelling, apparently not.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

If you want to see practical racial hate just take a trip over the Border to England where it is practiced on wide proportions - especially in the North.

Isn't this a bigoted, prejudiced & racially stereotyped reply, especially about English people who actually live in the North? I see no evidence of practical racial hate (whatever that means) in the North or anywhere else on 'wide proportions' (surely you mean 'on a wide proportion of ... ?) which still makes no sense grammatically.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

It is always amusing that those who think they are so bright here and great with words so easily throw in the word hate. Never once here have I indicated I hated anyone so it just shows how ignorance can creaa forumulated perceptions (!).

Well, speaking in a 'forumulated?' manner, does this mean that all the negative rhetoric you post about Catholics & the Catholic Church is not a form of hatred then?

I see you edited your reposte OperaBloke - probably a good move! I often have to do it.

Regarding hate, one can also think of the Scottish approach to England football games.

Originally posted by string:

I see you edited your reposte OperaBloke - probably a good move! I often have to do it.

I had technical difficulties. Although I fail to see what relevance this has to do with my post.

Originally posted by string:

Regarding hate, one can also think of the Scottish approach to England football games.

Yeah well, someone should tell that Howie bloke about glass houses & throwing stones. I honestly don't care either for football or any Scottish approach to 'games'. I've been to Scotland on more than one occasion. I think that rjhowie lives in a bit of a cloud cuckoo land, in its true Aristophanian sense.

The usual trite stuff there. You adopt the same thinking as all in your catagory that if you criticise something on principle grounds it is convoluted into hate. I have in previous occasions stated my objections to that Church in detail comparing it to Biblical standards but have never denied the individuals who follow what I say is a false doctrine of Christianity mixed with paganism. So now if I don't like something It is to be automatically changed to hate? Interesting projection of the intellectual approach - I don't think. It is the oldest tricj iin the book to give the appearance of balanced review but narrow it to suit. You need to get out more instead and I suspect you have been on these forums before but I let it pass.

As for real hate, it IS in the north of England and rife in a number of places between different races and tradition - white, black, brown. Sometimes particularily brown v black. Indeed many areas are ghettoes or practice apartheid and their is strife between them. It stretches being credible that you have not seen the situation as it is but instead dismiss it as a fiction because it suits your blinkered vision. As for you claiming my rhetoric is something else that is your opinion and I have a right in stating what I want as you do. Remarkable that so-called balanced, liberal minds get very blinkered if you don't fit what they want. In additionwhere was hate manifested in Great Britain but the riots in England. Right across the damn place. Hate in all it's furore. You were so right about stones and glas houses.

Then while on guff there is the overdone yak about Scotland re English football. Hype. It is a great joke on the English and there are teams in England that live on the same thread too! You just have to look over the years at the travelling English fans in Europe and the mayhem and hate spat out by them for so long. When they were good they were "English" and when on the rampage they were "British". The long litany of the Tartan Army was a complete contrast to that lot. I have no memory of ever hating anyone in my life and I am not going to be morphed into it by a crowd of woolly headed self-opiniated ranting, narrow, lbig headed libs.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

The usual trite stuff there. You adopt the same thinking as all in your catagory that if you criticise something on principle grounds it is convoluted into hate. I have in previous occasions stated my objections to that Church in detail comparing it to Biblical standards but have never denied the individuals who follow what I say is a false doctrine of Christianity mixed with paganism. So now if I don't like something It is to be automatically changed to hate? Interesting projection of the intellectual approach - I don't think. It is the oldest tricj iin the book to give the appearance of balanced review but narrow it to suit. You need to get out more instead and I suspect you have been on these forums before but I let it pass.

The usual unintelligible drivel here ...

Originally posted by rjhowie:

As for real hate, it IS in the north of England and rife in a number of places between different races and tradition - white, black, brown. Sometimes particularily brown v black.

I live & work in the North. I have colleagues & friends of different races & cultures. We all get on fine. Look up 'reaction-formation' in a dictionary. You are the one full of hate & distorted perceptions.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Indeed many areas are ghettoes or practice apartheid and their is strife between them. It stretches being credible that you have not seen the situation as it is but instead dismiss it as a fiction because it suits your blinkered vision.

If only I had your perspicacity.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

As for you claiming my rhetoric is something else that is your opinion and I have a right in stating what I want as you do. Remarkable that so-called balanced, liberal minds get very blinkered if you don't fit what they want. In additionwhere was hate manifested in Great Britain but the riots in England. Right across the damn place. Hate in all it's furore. You were so right about stones and glas houses.

Yeah, those riots were all about racial hatred weren't they? Nothing to do with the millions on the breadline or the economically marginalised. It's all the fault of those blinkered liberal minds, obviously.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Then while on guff there is the overdone yak about Scotland re English football. Hype. It is a great joke on the English and there are teams in England that live on the same thread too! You just have to look over the years at the travelling English fans in Europe and the mayhem and hate spat out by them for so long. When they were good they were "English" and when on the rampage they were "British". The long litany of the Tartan Army was a complete contrast to that lot.

Yadda, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah ...

Originally posted by rjhowie:

I have no memory of ever hating anyone in my life and I am not going to be morphed into it by a crowd of woolly headed self-opiniated ranting, narrow, lbig headed libs.

If you can't see the hypocrisy or contradiction in this statement, I genuinely feel sorry for you. You must be a very lonely & sad person.


I don't hate the woolly headed self-opiniated ranting, narrow, lbig headed libs'

That you morph that into hate shows that you are not as clever as you think you are and betray yourself by all that extra guff you try to bounce back. Indeed, following your daft line of thought you are constantly showing hate towards me! Hence my last comment. Why don't you go back to your original non-de-plume here on Opera rather than hide behind this new one? What a hate man. Yeah, that's a good label.

So sorry to deviate bfrom your bile but until we get something more definite about Iran and a bomb I chose not to beive the hype and desperate itchy fingers of Washington DC. If the USA is so concerned about nuclear devices in the Middle East it should set an example first with it's puppet in Tel Aviv?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

That you morph that into hate shows that you are not as clever as you think you are and betray yourself by all that extra guff you try to bounce back.

WTF? Is this a real sentence? Anyway, it isn't even coherent & I don't need to 'bounce back' & I haven't 'morphed' into anything (with extra guff or otherwise).

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Indeed, following your daft line of thought

Which 'daft line of thought' is this exactly?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

you are constantly showing hate towards me!

Ah! Paranoia. Next, you will be having delusions of grandeur.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Hence my last comment. Why don't you go back to your original non-de-plume here on Opera rather than hide behind this new one? What a hate man. Yeah, that's a good label.

I hate bad grammar.

Originally posted by Raymond B. Egan:

There's a song in the land of the lily,
Each sweetheart has heard with a sigh.
Over high garden walls this sweet echo falls
As a soldier boy whispers goodbye:

Smile the while you kiss me sad adieu
When the clouds roll by I'll come to you.
Then the skies will seem more blue,
Down in Lover's Lane, my dearie.

Wedding bells will ring so merrily
Ev'ry tear will be a memory.
So wait and pray each night for me
Till we meet again.

Tho' goodbye means the birth of a tear drop,
Hello means the birth of a smile.
And the smile will erase the tear blighting trace,
When we meet in the after awhile.

Smile the while you kiss me sad adieu
When the clouds roll by I'll come to you
Then the skies will seem more blue
Down in Lover's Lane, my dearie,

Wedding bells will ring so merrily
Ev'ry tear will be a memory
So wait and pray each night for me
Till we meet again.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Raymond B. Egan:

There's a song in the land of the lily,
Each sweetheart has heard with a sigh.
Over high garden walls this sweet echo falls
As a soldier boy whispers goodbye:

Smile the while you kiss me sad adieu
When the clouds roll by I'll come to you.
Then the skies will seem more blue,
Down in Lover's Lane, my dearie.

Wedding bells will ring so merrily
Ev'ry tear will be a memory.
So wait and pray each night for me
Till we meet again.

Tho' goodbye means the birth of a tear drop,
Hello means the birth of a smile.
And the smile will erase the tear blighting trace,
When we meet in the after awhile.

Smile the while you kiss me sad adieu
When the clouds roll by I'll come to you
Then the skies will seem more blue
Down in Lover's Lane, my dearie,

Wedding bells will ring so merrily
Ev'ry tear will be a memory
So wait and pray each night for me
Till we meet again.

Originally posted by Groucho and Chico:

“I’ll pick you up in my car.”
“Oh, you have a car?”
“No. I used to have a car & a chauffeur, but
I couldn’t afford both, so I got rid of the car.”
“What good is a chauffeur without a car?”
“I need him to drive me to work.”
“How can he drive you to work without a car?”
“It’s-a okay. I don’t have a job.”

I had occasion to watch the Clinton News Network (aka CNN) the other day, seems there's a bit of saber-rattling going on in the Straits of Hormuz. US ships squaring off against the Iranian navy. There are two issues on the table at least, one is that the US doesn't want Iran to have nukes. The other is that the Iranians have allegedly stated a desire to blockade the straits if the US, the UN or anybody else, apparently, attempts to impose stiffer sanctions on them. Right now it's still posturing, but with the possibility it could be a shooting war before many more days pass.

The Cuban Missile Crisis, revisited-- only without Kennedy and Kruschev, both of whom had enough brains to realize it was serious then.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

I had occasion to watch the Clinton News Network (aka CNN) the other day,

Clinton has its own news network now?

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

The Cuban Missile Crisis, revisited-- only without Kennedy and Kruschev, both of whom had enough brains to realize it was serious then.

Obama is no fool & I doubt that Medvedev or Putin would start WWIII on behalf of Iran. I just don't see the parallel.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

I had occasion to watch the Clinton News Network (aka CNN) the other day, seems there's a bit of saber-rattling going on in the Straits of Hormuz. US ships squaring off against the Iranian navy. There are two issues on the table at least, one is that the US doesn't want Iran to have nukes. The other is that the Iranians have allegedly stated a desire to blockade the straits if the US, the UN or anybody else, apparently, attempts to impose stiffer sanctions on them. Right now it's still posturing, but with the possibility it could be a shooting war before many more days pass.

The Cuban Missile Crisis, revisited-- only without Kennedy and Kruschev, both of whom had enough brains to realize it was serious then.

Well, for one Iran doesn't have nukes yet and the russians certainly won't start shooting just because of that madman. Quite the opposite, they'll probably laugh their heads off, then increase their own oil production ( along with every other oil producing country that doesn't ship from the persian gulf ) and try to make some extra bucks.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

The other is that the Iranians have allegedly stated a desire to blockade the straits if the US, the UN or anybody else, apparently, attempts to impose stiffer sanctions on them. Right now it's still posturing, but with the possibility it could be a shooting war before many more days pass.

I'm holding my breath. The Iranians are hardly that stupid, but if I'm wrong, I'll be moving to Canada. But, see the following...

http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2011/11/02/you-say-you-wanna-bomb-iran-take-a-number-and-stand-in-line/

I don't make this stuff up.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

I don't make this stuff up.

"Yes, you heard right: Britain is preparing to bomb Iran. "

OK ... no one is supposed to know.

Anyway, it's just a contingency plan for when if the bubble & squeak really hits the blender. We have a similar contingency plan for when Scotland goes independent (hopefully soon) & they won't be able to use Sterling & have to adopt the euro. We expect millions of Jock refugees & asylum seekers trying to smuggle themselves into England, so some chap called Hadrian has plans for building a long wall to help stop the flow of the inevitable Jock Scottish illegal immigration/asylum seekers.

It always pays to be prepared. That's how we beat the Luftwaffe.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

I don't make this stuff up.

"Yes, you heard right: Britain is preparing to bomb Iran. "

OK ... no one is supposed to know.

Anyway, it's just a contingency plan for when if the bubble & squeak really hits the blender. We have a similar contingency plan for when Scotland goes independent (hopefully soon) & they won't be able to use Sterling & have to adopt the euro. We expect millions of Jock refugees & asylum seekers trying to smuggle themselves into England, so some chap called Hadrian has plans for building a long wall to help stop the flow of the inevitable Jock Scottish illegal immigration/asylum seekers.

It always pays to be prepared. That's how we beat the Luftwaffe.

About 80 percent of German forces were lost on the Eastern Front. Guess who they lost to.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

About 80 percent of German forces were lost on the Eastern Front. Guess who they lost to.

Well prepared Russians with a contingency plan?

No, a Russia willing to lose millions of citizens.
.......
I'm reading a piece in the February edition of Foreign Affairs in which a contributor argues for immediate strikes on Iranian nuclear sites. It isn't about any immediate threat, he argues, but about the suasion that Iran will have over nations in the region, added to the likelihood that others will exercise nuclear options. That, he argues, will lead to certain inevitable consequences.

It all has an ugly plausibility.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

No, a Russia willing to lose millions of citizens.

Yeah, unlike those Limey civilians who died in cities like London, Birmingham & Manchester during the Blitz. I'm not even going to mention Coventry.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

I'm reading a piece in the February edition of Foreign Affairs in which a contributor argues for immediate strikes on Iranian nuclear sites. It isn't about any immediate threat, he argues, but about the suasion that Iran will have over nations in the region, added to the likelihood that others will exercise nuclear options. That, he argues, will lead to certain inevitable consequences.

It all has an ugly plausibility.

Hopefully the fall-out won't blow my way.

Or Belfast, Glasgow, Clydebank (with hardly a house left standing).

There is a lot of posturing going on. Cameron has said on tv interview just recently that in principle nothing is off the table but states he has no pan to attack Iran and prefers to go on with the isolation. It is a concern that the posturing practive of both Iran and the US could lead to a serious situation that will not stop in the straits but overflow elsewhere. Neither is Iran like Iraq and an easy push-over - far from it. As I pointed out there already is a nuclear power in the Middle East but no-one in such a close proximity is surely going to use one as they cannot guaranteed that others won't be effected? Anyway, I have yet to be convinced about all the newsspeak pouring out that iran is working on a bomb. Nuclear for electricity is fine but there is nothing to prove that Iran is moving that way and there President is doing a great job of teasing the US.

They're almost certainly working on a weapon. Nobody is killing those scientists because they're building chocolate factories. They're going to do it out of the defensive threat it offers.

Ahmadinejad doesn't run the show, the Iranian pope does.

The less threatening the enemy is (are), the better.

On the Iraq/Iran comparison, I don't think anybody seriously contemplates a land war. Even our Republican nutcases aren't that detached from reality no matter how many sabers are rattled, and they do rattle said sabers. Batshit crazy comes to mind, but it's only because it plays to the cretins who are primed to vote on that side of the spectrum, one of whom posts here regularly.

On the whole this country isn't primed for another costly and futile confrontation. Iraq is in the process of fragmenting, and Afghanistan isn't far behind.

This is depressing. We're nuttier than the proverbial fruitcake.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

On the Iraq/Iran comparison, I don't think anybody seriously contemplates a land war.

The cyber war has already begun.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

This is depressing. We're nuttier than the proverbial fruitcake.

Yeah, not as nutty as the Iranians though. That must be some compensation.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Yeah, not as nutty as the Iranians though. That must be some compensation.

Hardly. Our nuttiness comes from imagining too many threats. There's comes from imagining too many threats. Oops!

They aren't going to shell anybody in the Straits; we aren't going sink their ships.

Were I an Iranian, I'd want nukes.

This is scary.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Yeah, not as nutty as the Iranians though. That must be some compensation.

Hardly. Our nuttiness comes from imagining too many threats. There's comes from imagining too many threats. Oops!

They aren't going to shell anybody in the Straits; we aren't going sink their ships.

Were I an Iranian, I'd want nukes.

This is scary.

Stop worrying jbrothernew37, the Israelis will waste the Iranian plants before they can manufacture weapons grade kryptonite. Well, unless the newly independent Scotland takes the Iranian side in the future!

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Stop worrying jbrothernew37, the Israelis will waste the Iranian plants before they can manufacture weapons grade kryptonite.

Oh, I find that so reassuring!

Kryptonite! I love science.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Stop worrying jbrothernew37, the Israelis will waste the Iranian plants before they can manufacture weapons grade kryptonite.

Oh, I find that so reassuring!

Sorry, that's the best I could do on short notice. To be honest, I have so many things to worry about these days, impending nuclear war is the least of my worries.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Sorry, that's the best I could do on short notice. To be honest, I have so many things to worry about these days, impending nuclear war is the least of my worries.

Me, too. The wife made a mess of frosting the cake.