Old style address bar drop down while typing.

In the last two snapshots a new lightweight two-column drop down was introduced for the address bar. While I like the two-column part, I'm less enamoured with the loss of distinct separation between bookmark and history entries (also that history now seems to come before bookmarks, but if they're separated that matters less) and by the loss of favicons beside each entry — the latter especially as it would help me to find what I'm looking for a lot more quickly than scanning rows of text.

Are there any ways at the moment to re-enable the old style bar, or to re-enable those parts while keeping the two-column layout as well?

Originally posted by BtEO:

and by the loss of favicons beside each entry

OK, I don't need favicons but I vote +1 for favicons for people who need it.

Originally posted by BtEO:

I'm less enamoured with the loss of distinct separation between bookmark and history entries

While I am more happy than ever.

I just wish I could see it.

+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

Originally posted by OlegYch:

+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

+1000000000000000000000

Originally posted by BtEO:

I'm less enamoured with the loss of distinct separation between bookmark and history entries

I hate the new style

Originally posted by Johann-7:

I hate the new style

I the new style, except removal of favicons.

This disagreement is why stuff like this should always come with options. I don't mind changing the defaults — and often will happily roll with the changes — but this one is bugging me even after giving it a chance.

Why does Opera shorten Google suggestions so much? There is a wide space for text!

Originally posted by webcm:

Why does Opera shorten Google suggestions so much? There is a wide space for text!

Yeah - what gives?

OTOH, the only thing that has really gotten better: If you start typing a URL with "www", Opera won't match each and every history entry which contains a "w" anymore. :-)

gibson

imo, new url dropdown sucks hard
just compare it to the one from firefox:
hatasoft.at.tut.by/opera_search.png
i've created the request in wishlist
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1136112&t=1319812245

Originally posted by BtEO:

This disagreement is why stuff like this should always come with options. I don't mind changing the defaults — and often will happily roll with the changes — but this one is bugging me even after giving it a chance.

I do mind the defaults. I think about what's the best for most users and definitely the newest Opera Next's URL drop-down list need to change.

IMO there should be no debate over the favicons, they must back for finding pages easily.
The organization is also dubious, when the history and bookmarks were separated you'd know where to look for (knowing if the page is in history or bookmarks) and now it's harder to find a page. The ordering is also questionable.

I hope Opera Software can study and discover which option is the best for its users and don't choose to change things in the version 12 for the worse, causing the majority to want to change the settings and some users that don't care simply think it's crappy and think to choose another browser.

Originally posted by OlegYch:

just compare it to the one from firefox:
hatasoft.at.tut.by/opera_search.png
i've created the request in wishlist
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1136112&t=1319812245

This is off-topic.

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

I think about what's the best for most users and definitely the newest Opera Next's URL drop-down list need to change.

You're lucky. In Windows, I can't even see it. (Since the only other person I've seen report this issue also had nVidia graphics, I assume it is hardware-related.) In Linux it shows okay ...

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

The organization is also dubious, when the history and bookmarks were separated you'd know where to look for

Might be your favorite thing, but most users (I have talked with many Firefox and Chrome users) like it the way it is implemented in current Opera builds - something a bit similar to Chrome with the difference that search results and URLs don't have separate list.

Originally posted by Swapnil99pro:

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

The organization is also dubious, when the history and bookmarks were separated you'd know where to look for

Might be your favorite thing, but most users (I have talked with many Firefox and Chrome users) like it the way it is implemented in current Opera builds - something a bit similar to Chrome with the difference that search results and URLs don't have separate list.

What's the advantage of having one unorganized list on their words?

+1 to favicons. It's really hard to find anything without them

+1 to favicons and separation between bookmarks and history. Both changes make it harder to find what I'm looking for at a glance.

I am in favour of that - favicons should, if not be shown by default, at least have the option to be shown (and that applies to any general change in the browser's behaviour).

Indeed, as already mentioned, history items should be separated from the bookmarks (in addition to this)

Moreover, search shouldn't have predominance. Now, if I type in something and a bookmark is matched, it's shown, but below the search suggestions. Not that suggestions are bad, but if a bookmark is found, opening that bookmark should be the default action and not searching (or pressing arrow down several times to get to the bookmark).

One more thing: now, some bookmarks require typing in four or five letters for them to emerge from being hidden under 'Show n more...'

Another one, I know I mentioned it in another topic, but I can't find it now. Anyway, it's basically request for mid-word matching support. That is, for example, I have bookmarked http://4walled.org/. If I begin typing '4wa', it will be matched, but if I only type 'wall' or even 'walled', Opera would not match it.

I don't claim that what I suggest would please everyone, but I at least ask for the features being optional, so that everyone can set things to their preferences.

well, I like the new search a little more if only for the slightly improved "search" ability, although it's still light-years behind every other browser I've tried

mostly I agree with D1sasterp1ece
1. favicons. right now the bookmark/history icons are only shown when you hover onto that item, why not put favicons in the empty space
(slightly off topic, anybody noticed that icons are getting smaller every time the ui is redesigned since10, try compare the back button in ie/firefox/chrome to the 11px high button in opera, and firefox 11 just changed the FAVICON in addressbar search to 32*32)

2. search suggestion. it should have that much priority over my own history and bookmarks, right? and I can't find a way to disable it for address bar only and not searchfield.

3. Show n more. this is probably under the assumptino that opera search is good enough so you don't need to find your result that far down, well it's not.

one line to show each entry is fine and better than multiple ones, but c'mon: give us the favicons back! It definitely helps to spot the right address more quickly

I hate this new bookmark/history mess. I even think it will prevent me from upgrading. Address bar drop down list needed not any change.

+1 for return of favicons.

No one cares.
Inappropriate content removed

@OlegYch what's the point of your post?

As you can see here on the thread there's a number of people who cared enough to search and post here as some other people commented this various times in the Desktop Team blog so I'm sure someone cares.

And even you're supporting this thread!

Rafael, no doubt there are lots of people supporting this topic
i'm just not sure that the people who can make the difference care

I don't link that new address bar style

for me the best solution

- favicons back

- two colums site tile - ur in one line, but when the url is a bit longer it's in two lines (first for site tile, second for url)

-separate bookmarks from history.

Originally posted by OlegYch:

Rafael, no doubt there are lots of people supporting this topic
i'm just not sure that the people who can make the difference care

Please - atleast don't bloat the Forums with crap images. I know many users do that - but I can't do anything other than advising them not to do so.

Time to make this topic active - users requesting the favicons back have little time to convince the Opera team.

It was just an image... I'm 100% ok with images, yours perhaps just need to be scaled down. The thins is I didn't get your post!
Anyway, let's stop talking about images and stay on the topic...

I don't think there's anything left to say about the favicons... IMO it's obvious that they need to back. We'll have to wait and see if Opera will bring them back or not. Meanwhile people will stay posting on the forums and in the Desktop Team, and if it goes final there'll be possibly a boom of users that dislike the new address field URL drop-down/auto-complete list because of this and other important issues present as of today.

I'm indifferent about single/double line drop down, favicon is nice, like I said before there's empty space that's obviously made for it, so why not put it there

however, I don't think bookmarks and history should be separated, user shouldn't need to consciously filter the results, opera should do better indexing and priority with the results, like not putting a page that contains keyword that I've visited once before a page that matches keyword in the page title and url that I've visited dozens of times.

also RE:Rafael, I see you talked about not being able to disable suggestion for address bar only (in your blog), I tried uncheck "enable search suggestions" in the Manage Search Engines setting, it turns out that disabled suggestion for address bar but not search field. (which I think it's weird, not that I don't like it) I'm using the 11.60 beta and the latest opera-next.

+1

Originally posted by Swapnil99pro:

little time to convince the Opera team.

I don't mean to sound rude, but some decisions concerning a change in functionality are made independently by the devs and changes are imposed forcefully with sometimes low to no reception. Furthermore, take into account how much people are testing snapshots and how much, much more will jump from 11.52 final to 11.60 final and what? They will surely be like "Hey, what happened to the favicons?"

Long story short, what I mean is that feedback should be paid more attention [if any] during development, not after releasing a final.

Originally posted by s33s:

I see you talked about not being able to disable suggestion for address bar only (in your blog), I tried uncheck "enable search suggestions" in the Manage Search Engines setting, it turns out that disabled suggestion for address bar but not search field.

Oh... Yes, that modifies the option for the address field (opera:config#UserPrefs|ShowSearchesInAddressfieldAutocompletion). Then there are two problems with it: it's definitely on the wrong place or missing an explanation that the option in Ctrl + F12 -> Search tab is for the address field, and the other problem is it disables the suggestions for keywords on the address field (e.g. "g text"). I want to have suggestions enabled for keywords but not for the address field when I'm not using keywords. I'll fix the post in my blog.

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

Oh... Yes, that modifies the option for the address field (opera:config#UserPrefs|ShowSearchesInAddressfieldAutocompletion). Then there are two problems with it: it's definitely on the wrong place or missing an explanation that the option in Ctrl + F12 -> Search tab is for the address field, and the other problem is it disables the suggestions for keywords on the address field (e.g. "g text"). I want to have suggestions enabled for keywords but not for the address field when I'm not using keywords. I'll fix the post in my blog.

well, I thought it was weird too. I get what you're saying now, It would be great if opera is smart enough to only show suggestions for "g text".

Originally posted by D1sasterp1ece:

"Hey, what happened to the favicons?"

Yes, exactly my point. People who got used to favicons won't like it at all. The featherweight project was to make the Opera's User Interface more pleasant but why do favicons need to be removed for that - plus there is no gain of any extra space in the User Interface.

Originally posted by D1sasterp1ece:

Originally posted by Swapnil99pro:

little time to convince the Opera team.

I don't mean to sound rude, but some decisions concerning a change in functionality are made independently by the devs and changes are imposed forcefully with sometimes low to no reception. Furthermore, take into account how much people are testing snapshots and how much, much more will jump from 11.52 final to 11.60 final and what? They will surely be like "Hey, what happened to the favicons?"

Long story short, what I mean is that feedback should be paid more attention [if any] during development, not after releasing a final.

+1
I'm very dissapointed at the moment. There are things like the fvicons and the drop-down bar that lot of users complain about and nobody from Opera does even try to give an answer.

Originally posted by Schnellinger:

I'm very dissapointed at the moment.

I feel that way a long time...

Originally posted by ozoratsubasa:

Originally posted by Schnellinger:

I'm very dissapointed at the moment.

I feel that way a long time...

Agreed. 11.60 is looking more like a step backwards rather than forwards. Sure, there's some improvements to HTML5 and whatnot, but the interface is taking a hit, and I'm starting to think it's a bit of Chrome envy showing through.

My story is that I've been slowly migrating away from Firefox and Chrome to using Opera exclusively. I had to find workarounds and alternatives to the lack of addons (vs Firefox), and I've been making progress. Now, I am seriously considering just moving back to Firefox. It just works, doesn't choke on popular/common web sites like Opera seems to do, has a smarter drop-down menu and ordering, and has a public bug tracker (so you actually *know* what's going on if you choose to follow up on the developers' progress.)

I really, really want to use Opera, but the recent changes are stripping away my motivation. It's almost not worth it anymore.

No, I will not file bug reports if I cannot check on the status, let alone see if it's a duplicate, let alone see if it has been acknowledged, let alone follow through with it. I might not even bother with the "Desktop wish-list" forum, since it seems to fall on deaf ears most of the time. I see developers post there now and then, but I don't see positive results. In fact, I see the opposite occurring: they just keep trucking away with changes that only upset and alienate their users. A lot of these "wishes" just get buried into obscurity within a matter of days. Don't even get me started on the comments for the blog posts.

What is the proper user feedback mechanism for Opera's desktop development? The forums? The comments and the blog posts? I'm not even sure I understand who their "customers" are anymore. They're developing a desktop browser for someone, but who? Surely not for themselves. Where can I find the decision-making process before a change is committed? Where are the official justifications for why the developers and designers make such changes? Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough, which I won't rule out as a possibility.

I now understand why there is silence on an issue: Users are just accepting it because they realize it's not worth the effort to continue badgering the same point over and over; not to mention that some people are labeled as "complainers" just because they don't agree with a decision (sometimes done without warning) or because they protest a change.

In short: I very much doubt I'll "upgrade" from 11.52 to 11.60, and I am seriously considering just abandoning my plans to fully migrate to Opera. I'm just one user and I wanted to voice this concern.

I think the Staff takes more serious the users, we want to know we are making the difference here. One of the motives I love Opera is/was because I feel heard. That's not I am seeing now.

Mod edit: ToS violation. Attempt at hijacking the thread with off-topic content.

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

I have just one question: does Mozilla listen to its community or they simply never change their browser so there can't be criticism?

They are not perfect by any stretch, but they have reversed decisions based on user feedback and criticism. A prime example is the "Help > About" controversy. The Firefox desktop product manager eventually gave in to the mass of users who were against his proposal to remove the version number from the Help > About window. Yes, something as tiny and miniscule as a version number caused so much backlash that even a Mozilla big whig had to back down. How does anyone know about this? Because it's all visible on a public bug report and public mailing lists. You can't get away with as much when people know what you're planning and changing out in the open for all the users to see.

But I digress. Like I said, they're not perfect either, but at least it's more a of a community project than a commercial one. Remember though, I was slowly migrating away from Firefox to use only Opera exclusively. My account is brand new, but I have been following the Opera Deaktop Team blog for quite a long time. The trend I see is they are chasing after Chrome rather than improving their UI independently. The changes to the address bar are so blatantly obvious: removal of the dropdown arrow, removal of favicons in dropdown, single line double-column results, no separation between history and favorites (nor obvious priority), merging search with favorites and history in the dropdown. It's all from Chrome's playbook, and I cannot find where Opera users demanded this.

+1 for public bug tracker (can't wish for complete open source)

Originally posted by flansuse:

The trend I see is they are chasing after Chrome rather than improving their UI independently. The changes to the address bar are so blatantly obvious: removal of the dropdown arrow, removal of favicons in dropdown, single line double-column results, no separation between history and favorites (nor obvious priority), merging search with favorites and history in the dropdown. It's all from Chrome's playbook, and I cannot find where Opera users demanded this.

Ooo, nice. I like this summary, not least because Chrome's popularity somewhat baffles me.

@flansuse you can't tell whether the change on the About dialog was reverted because of user feedback or intern decision because they noticed it was really better to keep the version number there.

The thing about comparing Opera to Chrome... In the current 12/11.60 state the address field works even worse than Chrome's, mainly because of the unbridled priority on searches and history.

Originally posted by flansuse:

[
The trend I see is they are chasing after Chrome rather than improving their UI independently. The changes to the address bar are so blatantly obvious: removal of the dropdown arrow, removal of favicons in dropdown, single line double-column results, no separation between history and favorites (nor obvious priority), merging search with favorites and history in the dropdown. It's all from Chrome's playbook, and I cannot find where Opera users demanded this.

And I really don' t get it why Opera should act in accordance with Chrome.
Where are the times when every other browser company copied Operas features, cause this was the innovative one? And now e look at Chromes UI and follow the things they do? Really no reason for that, IMHO.

+1 for favicons
It's a lot harder to navigate through the dropdown list without them. Or at least put them as an option in config!

Regards,
Tadej

Originally posted by OlegYch:

+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

+1, at least change postioning to name / url

I doubt if favicons will return anytime soon, comments about them are not only ignored but often also removed (even if they were mentioned in longer comment) / edited. :-/

Could I also have my contact icons in mail back, please?!?

Although the icons were a bit childish, I actually used them to separate me, my wife, friends and family, colleagues and clients.

Just like losing favicons from the address drop-down, it's now impossible to tell at a glance what kind of contacts sent/received the mail I'm looking at.

It was also extremely useful for identifying NEW CONTACTS (or new addresses for known contacts) since they wouldn't have any icon!

+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

At least as an option in opera:config

+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

I second that of course, but first of all the topic should be moved elsewhere.


Besides - where is a public bug tracker? What about a backup tools? I know, nobody cares out there (but admins ).

I came across this after googling for opera favicons

flansuse@5. December 2011, 03:53:21 said it perfectly. Esp the bit about wanting to use Opera. It's been great, but going backwards with some baffling changes. Is there an official statement saying why favicons have been removed?

Anyway I will add to the chorus, hopefully someone listens....

+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

or an option in opera:config

+1 for return of favicons.

+1 for favicons
-1 for optional old-style dropdown
-1 save search in address bar

Originally posted by plaza88:

-1 for optional old-style dropdown

Why '-1' if it can be optional?

All in all, I don't think this should be "+1 for this, -1 for that". The dropdown (and everything else, by the way) should be customizable, so everyone can give priority to what they want - history, bookmarks, search.

What I don't like in the current implementation (and it's about the same in both 11.52 and 11.60) is that search is always first - when you begin typing something, even if a bookmark is matched after two or three letters, priority is given to the search (with suggestions popping up and so on), so if I want to go to that bookmark, I have to either use arrow down one time to focus the search and second (or third, fourth and so on, if more suggestions come up) time to focus that bookmark, or to point the bookmark with the mouse, which is, and you have to agree with me, counter-intuitive.

Originally posted by D1sasterp1ece:

should be customizable, so everyone can give priority to what they want - history, bookmarks, search.

I agree with you.
I would like for example: bookmarks, search, history and disable the save search(Google, Yandex,..) in address bar.

I don't care about customisability.
Just return the old style, it was much more functional and helpful.

Originally posted by OlegYch:

I don't care about customisability.
Just return the old style, it was much more functional and helpful.

Some people like how it was, some other people like how it is now. Nobody is supposed to think like you do.
What I'm in for: when a new approach to a feature is implemented or something is updated, to have the option not to use it, or to use the old approach to it.

Originally posted by D1sasterp1ece:

Originally posted by OlegYch:

I don't care about customisability.
Just return the old style, it was much more functional and helpful.

Some people like how it was, some other people like how it is now. Nobody is supposed to think like you do.
What I'm in for: when a new approach to a feature is implemented or something is updated, to have the option not to use it, or to use the old approach to it.

I'm pretty sure that's not going to work, as it's significantly harder to support two implementations for the same feature.
Sometimes it is better to achieve compromise than trying to fulfill everyones expectations.
In this case i've never heard people asking "please copy the url dropdown design from chrome" so most people either don't care or dislike it.

Originally posted by D1sasterp1ece:

Some people like how it was, some other people like how it is now.

OlegYch comment is funny. But kind of true at the same time. I haven't seen a single comment that could point a good thing on the new version.

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

I haven't seen a single comment that could point a good thing on the new version.

Originally posted by s33s:

however, I don't think bookmarks and history should be separated, user shouldn't need to consciously filter the results, opera should do better indexing and priority with the results.

also, search results is improved a tiny bit from 11.5

@s33s did you try to answer my post? Where's the answer?

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

Originally posted by D1sasterp1ece:

Some people like how it was, some other people like how it is now.

OlegYch comment is funny. But kind of true at the same time. I haven't seen a single comment that could point a good thing on the new version.

There's actually one thing I like in 11.60 compared to 11.52: using the default search with suggestions without having to use a keyword.

Well, if you don't mind sending every keystroke to your search suggestions server nor having to press a lot of times the down arrow to get into the page you're actually wanting to go (on the bookmarks or history)...

I'd rather have it disabled, but can't without making suggestions get disabled on the keywords too or get other disadvantages!

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

@s33s did you try to answer my post? Where's the answer?

the quote was a comment by me which pointed out a good thing - mixing history and bookmarks

I'm not sure if I prefer history and bookmarks together or separated, whatever, but putting history above bookmarks made my experience much poorer when I was testing 11.60.

You say that Opera should do better indexing and priority with the results, of course, I agree. But you also say that in 11.60 it's a little better. Well, I can say with almost 100% sure the address field's page indexer/searcher is the same as the previous version.

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

I'm not sure if I prefer history and bookmarks together or separated, whatever, but putting history above bookmarks made my experience much poorer when I was testing 11.60.

If is to have a minimalist look, put a separator bar between history and bookmarks which you passing the mouse on the urls, you'll know where are the history or bookmarks by the icon at side. And bookmarks appearing in first.

+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

Another vote from someone who started with Opera 6.0. The dropdown beats a bloated Speed Dial which I abandoned long ago. Now I have to set up Speed Dial again to test the latest versions and that's why I really haven't spent much time on them.
+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

+1 for favicons
+1 for optional old-style dropdown

+1 I want my favicons back

Favicons still missing and needed!

Originally posted by 79wehe2c:

Favicons still missing and needed!

They are disabled by default, but can be re-enabled here: opera:config#UserPrefs|ShowFaviconsinAddressfield

There is still a problem, however. Even with favicons enabled in the address field, bookmarked pages will have a "star" instead of a favicon. You will only ever see favicons for history items. For some reason, there are no results with both a star and a favicon. It's either one or the other.