Another excuse for the huge military expenditure nonsense?

America is now sending troops "to train" forces in Central Africa. And they add in that Al might move in there next. Is this the start of something yet again like Iraq and Afghanistan? Seems to be no end to the scare tactics. Just as well the late Bin's lot aren't on the moon as that would be too close too?

I am very annoyed about that. :-(

Nobody else seems willing and able to help… The mighty Scots are so involved with their orangeade (Irnbru) and futbol (and their wee mistaken memories) that the rest of the world doesn't exist; the feeling is mutual, I'm sure.

If ever a group needed stomping…the "Lord’s Resistance Army" qualifies! C'mon, rj, grow a pair.

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

orangeade (Irnbru)

I can safely assume from that that you have never tasted Irn Bru.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

America is now sending troops "to train" forces in Central Africa. And they add in that Al might move in there next. Is this the start of something yet again like Iraq and Afghanistan?

You don't understand the full extent of it.
Give this a gander.

Yep, here is a Map of how America sees the world:



Looks like RJ might be on to something, at this point we may need to go to the Moon.

Unfortunately you are on the right track there Muttsfan. The country has been so brained for decades about threats to "national security" it doesn't matter how far away but enemies ere everywhere. As a distraction, OakdalFTL talks mince and a rather purile swat at Caledonia which is NOT a sovereign State. With well over 200 bases and military incurions all over the world and spending half the world's military budget how daft is that? This rabid attempt at making the general population full of fear and the need for security and a massive military to justify the expenditure is utterly bonkers. It is a form of political empirical paranoia. It cannot be afforded and more importantly it is not needed.

Now it is an incursion into Africa. I wonder why it took so long?

ps. I now note that Afhanistan is sooking in with China which in turn says anyone who attacks Pakistan it will see that as against them. Just think American cousins all those billions sent over there in the last decade and wasted. Reminds me of the old song that said "When will tey ever learn, when will they learn?" ( Where Have All The Flowers Gone).

Originally posted by rjhowie:

As a distraction, OakdalFTL talks mince and a rather purile swat at Caledonia which is NOT a sovereign State.

Since this thread authored by an egregious Caledonian is just another excuse for him to vent his spleen at the U.S. I thought it worthwhile to mention the culprit organization, the LRA…
Apparently, it doesn't matter; politics and prejudice trump all other "suits".

About this "new" interest:

In recent years more and more international attention has been focused on this crisis. In 2001, the US Patriot Act officially declared the LRA to be a terrorist organization - a huge step in drawing attention to the conflict and the atrocities committed by the LRA. In 2004, Congress passed the Northern Uganda Crisis Response Act, the first piece of American legislation to address this disaster. And in 2005, the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Joseph Kony and four of his top commanders.
(source)

And that notorious war-monger Russ Feingold co-sponsered the Senate's position…

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

Nobody else seems willing and able to help…
If ever a group needed stomping…the "Lord’s Resistance Army" qualifies!

Lots deserve stomping. We don't need to do it.
Able? Yes. Willing? Not unanimous.

Originally posted by aefields:

Able? Yes. Willing? Not unanimous.

Since when is unanimity required? I don't think a hundred or so advisors is going to break either our military budget or our military effectiveness elsewhere… But I do think this is both a situation where we can help and one that begs for resolution.
You may disagree…

But it is still ludicrous to view this through howie/Jaybro-colored glasses.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Another excuse for the huge military expenditure nonsense?

And do you think that they do it for free? at cost of their own expenses?
Their military advices don't value nothing at Central Africa but the contracts they got in exchange from the local tribal chief (whatever Central Africa has to offer) will largely compensate it.
You should not see the US as fools but as a looting machine. Sometimes they do it better, others worst. Often some previous investment is needed.

I wonder if Jaybro and Howie might occasionally be right about this? Going around being everybody else's nanny isn't always the best use of our resources, and stomping everybody who really needs stomping would exhaust us completely-- not to mention inviting a return stomping from somebody who thinks we really need stomping.

See below, from the Bill of No Rights.

ARTICLE VIII
You do not have the right to demand that our children risk their lives in foreign wars to soothe your aching conscience. We hate oppressive governments and won't lift a finger to stop you from going to fight if you'd like. However, we do not enjoy parenting the entire world and do not want to spend so much of our time battling each and every little tyrant with a military uniform and a funny hat.

http://www.keelynet.com/humor/norights.htm

Well Belfrager have I not consistently said here time and again that the US uses military incursions for later commercical gain? You are a bit late on that one! And aefields is so correct the US does not have to be the lot to be in there doing th stomping. It is an attitutude that has been prevalent far too long in US political circles and I think to th detriment of America's reputation and even more telling to the millions of Americans now suffering. It's high time America gave up this sighing stuff about having to be the policeman. No it doesn't and the more Americans that see that the better for them and their taxes. And trying to give some justification by OakdalFTL that it is only as advisors. Oh yeah where have we heard that story before then (and run into billions) ?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

And trying to give some justification by OakdalFTL that it is only as advisors. Oh yeah where have we heard that story before then (and run into billions) ?

As a subject, you know you have no say. As a citizen of a non-sovereign state, you should expect none. Yet you feel free to criticize those who have remedied those two defects of feudalists… Why?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Well Belfrager have I not consistently said here time and again that the US uses military incursions for later commercical gain? You are a bit late on that one!

Don't start singing too soon rjhowie, I didn't finished yet, that was just the introduction for what it matters, how the British Empire looted the world and with your disappearance Americans took your place.
At least, I recognize that Americans have developed your primitive and rudimentary methods into a reasonable oiled machine. Although expensive it has been enough to assure them the "American way of life", something that some Americans seems to forget.

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

Originally posted by aefields:

Able? Yes. Willing? Not unanimous.

Since when is unanimity required?

Oh, since never Of course it isn't required We see that every day.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

the British Empire looted the world and with your disappearance Americans took your place.
At least, I recognize that Americans have developed your primitive and rudimentary methods into a reasonable oiled machine. Although expensive it has been enough to assure them the "American way of life", something that some Americans seems to forget.

Not me!

Last week we looted Portugal and used the money to buy a roasted sparrow. Yummy!

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Last week we looted Portugal and used the money to buy a roasted sparrow. Yummy!

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

If ever a group needed stomping…the "Lord’s Resistance Army" qualifies! C'mon, rj, grow a pair.

For one a New York Times blogger seems to agree, though maybe just to show Rush Limbaugh putting his foot in.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Last week we looted Portugal and used the money to buy a roasted sparrow. Yummy!

I love it!

I have taken that it is raining in Portugal and that you have been kept in Belfrager? When it comes to point scoring on Empires I suspect our was run one h of a better than that thing you had. Noting much came out Post-Portugal's empire but we have the Commonwealth so if we were that bad they wouldn't have been party to that would they grumpy face? Gee what envy shows! I do agree that America was hell bent on replacing the British Empire which they did so following our ruin after the 2nd WW years.

You made a goodly point there Jaybro. Having looted Portugal you would have just managed to scrape to buying a sparrow. Or you could have waited until they got the EEC begging bowl to bale them out and you could have had a turkey or caviar!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Gee what envy shows!

Envy from Anglo Saxon barbarians??

The same barbarians who had to come to your aid in the Napoleonic wars are they - envy a sparrow? Must be worse over there than the news reports.

Who? The English? Only barbarians let their servants speaks for them... servants in skirts? Arabs have eunuchs, that must be some kind of northern variation...

This repartee is getting vicious. Calm down, boys!

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

This repartee is getting vicious. Calm down, boys!

Is Jaybrogod speaking again? You speak too much for a divinity... Everything is fine while you are amusing yourself and then... let's turn into the big moralist...
Everyone is calm here, we didn't even started animosities. Just enjoying the hors d'oeuvre.

Yeah you worry too much Jaybro. Sort your country out. Now back to the throng.

Firstly dear Portugese-in-turmoil-country. Only one area had kilts. The other place with skirts is in your fellow bankrupt country, Greece, which are more ludicrous. Anyway when we went to help Portugal (you are very un-appreciative) it was a British Army not an English one. Indeed many of the officers would be Scots with English servants. Maybe we should have left you to the whiles of those sneaky French and their fiend, Napoleon because you couldn't manage it yourselves. Then eons later you do the dirty on yuor King and drop gradually into a miltary dictatorship for ages. Tut, tut.

A modern fighter plane costs about $120 million.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/articles/communiques/FighterCostFinalJuly06.pdf










For more hundreds of expensive carcasses to count, Google "aircraft boneyard".

Instead of entering into delirium just drinking an effeminate drink, would you mind to show us the countability of your little region? Where three millions shepherds have spent per capita more than the triple what my Country has ever did? course not, that's why you pathetically try to support your dominants.

And I really don't have the patience for suburbans talking with me about History, much less to hear your desperate attempts of defending the English looting all over the world so they don't kick you out - no more subsides for the miserables... second class English, isn't it collaborationist?

Originally posted by OnetimePoster:

A modern fighter plane costs about $120 million.

And the American pilot as much to train.
Are they slow or what?

I see that Portugese have a sense of humour - who would have thought it. Consdering the way things are in your country right now you cannot point a finger at any other country or region elsehwere. All those easy timers wanting to work for the State in lieu of anything productive and having to depend on the EEC begging bowl if the Greeks and Irish let you near it. At least Ireland is trying to do something but you lot seem incapable. Now turn to the sun in your face, stick your jaw out and raise a hand stiffly out in front and sigh for the old days!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Consdering the way things are in your country right now you cannot point a finger at any other country or region elsehwere.

Oh yes I can... believe me.
Anyway, since you prefer to remain at economical area and we are soon to receive more from your money to solve an insignificant pocket money temporary limitation, I believe that we've finalized our little tour.
Always a pleasure, orangist.

Oh hypocrisy oft points a finger to take heat off itself dear Portugese collecting box holder. But as my OO dishes out oodles of cash to charities without any strings attached I will mention Portugal at the next meeting when the doors close and the ritual is seen to......!

Originally posted by OnetimePoster:

For more hundreds of expensive carcasses to count, Google "aircraft boneyard".

Gives me a damned headache!

Oh, to be Portuguese!

Gee a Portugese state-of-the-art equivilant of a jumbo jet!

Scotland versus Portugal, huh? I've never heard of a Portuguese having the problem outlined below....

Well a scotsman clad in kilt left the bar one evening fair.
And could tell by how he walked that he'd drunk more than his share.
He fumbled 'round until he could no longer keep his feet
and he stumbled off into the grass to sleep beside the street

Chorus: Ring ding didde diddle i-de-oh, ring di diddley i-oh
He stumbled off into the grass to sleep beside the street.

About that time two young and lovely girls just happened by
And one says to the other with a twinkle in her eye
"See young sleeping Scotsman so strong and handsome built
I wonder if its true what they dont wear beneath the kilt!"

Chorus: Ring ding diddle diddle i-de-oh, ring di diddley i-oh
I wonder if its true what they dont wear beneath the kilt!

They crept up on that sleeping Scotsman quiet as could be
Lifted up his kilt about an inch so they could see
and there behold for them to view
beneath his Scottish skirt was nothing more then God had graced him with upon his birth!

Chorus: Ring ding diddle diddle i-de-oh, ring di diddley i-oh
Was nothing more than God had graced him with upon his birth

They marveled for a moment, then one said we must gone
Lets leave a present for our friend before we move along!
As a gift they left a blue silk ribbon tied into a bow
Around the bunny star, the Scots kilt did lift them show

Chorus: Ring ding diddle diddle i-de-oh, ring di diddley i-oh
Around the bunny star, the Scots kilt did lift them show

Now the Scotsman woke to nature's call and stumbled towards a tree
Behind the bush he lifts his kilt and gawks at what he sees!
And in a startled voice he says to whats before his eyes
"(grunt) Lad i donno where ya been but I see ya won first prize!"

Chorus: Ring ding diddle diddle i-de-oh, ring di diddlye i-oh
Ah lad i dunno where ya been but I see ya won first priz!

Portuguese airplanes are called Airbus. If looking for something smaller we also built Embraer jets.
Boeing piece of crap? sorry, we don't have it. Speaking in crap, what's that? a Ford radial engine? Fly it to Oshkosh and you'll be the local hero of the day.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Portuguese airplanes are called Airbus. If looking for something smaller we also built Embraer jets.
Boeing piece of crap? sorry, we don't have it.

The Airbus is hardly a product of Portugal, hence hardly Portuguese. I'm certain that there are Masseratis in Portugal, but that doesn't make them Portuguese.

Brazil's Embraer, the world's third-biggest commercial jet maker, said on Saturday it would invest EUR148 million euros in two new plants in Portugal -- its first industrial units in Europe that will make wings and tailpieces for exports.

Wings and tailpieces. That's it.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

The Airbus is hardly a product of Portugal, hence hardly Portuguese.

Airbus belongs to an European consortium of several countries. Same goes for ESA the European Space Agency. We also participate at CERN.
When in need for accurate information, talk with me...

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Wings and tailpieces. That's it.

Wings that don't collapse, instead of your 787 "dreamliner", three years on breaking wings... Don't forget to buy American...

I dare say there is a famous Portugese around somewhere. to be fair whilst here there have been so many Scots invented and created things. Mind you it would be hard for many across the pond to realise that as they thinki they created the world almost.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Mind you it would be hard for many across the pond to realise that as they thinki they created the world almost.

Yes that's true...

Trying to get anything else through to them engenders a national deafness!

Thought Airbus was in France. Anyway, American Military is the worlds new guns for hire. why else would we deploy to another jungle that doesnt involve us?

Originally posted by Virusboy:

Thought Airbus was in France.

Final assembly is in France, the parts are made all over Europe.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Final assembly is in France, the parts are made all over Europe.

Final assembly isn't exclusively in France: it's also in Spain and Germany. Some kind of ultra-strong super-light-weight plastic-aluminum composite material (for body and I believe wings as well) is produced in the Netherlands.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

there have been so many Scots invented and created things

Muslims, too! Would you care to mention any you'd be proud of…?

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Airbus belongs to an European consortium of several countries. Same goes for ESA the European Space Agency. We also participate at CERN.

True, the consortium approach to large developments is not unique to Europe but it's probably more advanced there than other places. It is maybe not appreciated/understood by our American friends. It started big time with ESA where the participating countries gave funds for particular Space projects. This funding had to be distributed in the right proportions to those countries' industries (it's called "Geographical Distribution") leading to seriously multinational groupings. As one could imagine this was rather inefficient at first but that improved as working relationship were forged and such groupings are normal now. I would not say that it was always the best technical approach if one judged on expertise existing at the time but as time went on expertise grew in the different countries and in the firms involved. In fact that was an objective of the participating countries. The Airbus is an example of a commercially successful outcome of such groupings, not for Space but for Aviation.

Myslims comparible to Scots? Tosh. Seeing you want to be devilish OakdaleFTL here is something to chew over to show the fact they are so out in front....see Wikipedia for a massive list under "Scottish inventions and discoveries".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_inventions_and_discoveries

If I was to lkist them all here it would run to the point of distraction in all of the sub-headings.

Don't forget about the discoveries by mad scientists. Where would we be today (just a day or so short of Halloween) without monsters created in the basement lab of some deranged scientist? How could Brewster Rockit hope to defeat the bad guys if his friend, Dr. Mel Practice, didn't create a sufficient number of killbots?

We need mad scientists!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_scientist

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Myslims comparible to Scots? Tosh. Seeing you want to be devilish OakdaleFTL here is something to chew over to show the fact they are so out in front....see Wikipedia for a massive list under "Scottish inventions and discoveries".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_inventions_and_discoveries

If I was to lkist them all here it would run to the point of distraction in all of the sub-headings.

All very nice, but the Islamic world was producing bigger and more important developments in chemistry, mathematics and physics centuries before the Scots produced anything of worth.

And what then happend they lost the momentum and were overtaken they slipped into being medieval (and still so). The modern creations have a wider and vastly more influencing role than even want the Muslims did for their time.

Of course we sometimes need mad scietists. Take Blethcley Park north of London during World War 2 when it not only unlocked the German secret codes (which Hollywood later claimed was and American first!) and changed the war not only in the West. It also was able to supply the USSR with enough info in German plans that helped them with the world's biggest tank battle at Kursk. Still waing for that recognistion!

hen along came American boasting in 1946 that it had now created the world's first computer. Bubkum as it happens. That was created in Bletchley a while before that. Some of the Bletchley staff were indeed eccentric mathematicians and scientists but the brains behind the first computer was a GPO engineer!

Dont you know, the American foundation is built on other countries achievements. We even took the German atom bomb and said WE DID FIRST.

Originally posted by Virusboy:

Dont you know, the American foundation is built on other countries achievements. We even took the German atom bomb and said WE DID FIRST.

I hardly think the atom bomb was either an American foundation or German.

So true there Virusboy, so true. Amazing the people who were processed without going to Nuremberg. The attitude seems to be so prevalent in so many directions.

In my second visit to the USA I was in NYC on Easter Sunday and 5th Avenue was partly closed off for festivities and I heard the sound of marching and signing. Uo came a company of teenage boys in a uniform led by someone who was a captain (turned out to be a pastor). After they did their wee showI spoke about the nature of such as it was a bit like a world-wide organisation started in Glasgow in 1883. What I found made me sigh. In chatting was that he said he knew about it and made the comment "Yeh you have something like this over there started don't you?" Well yes since 1883 and more before he was active! It's such attitudes that exasperate people elsewhere as if everything was created across the pond and everyone else bit players!

Certainly the taking of the Nazi scientists to the States was a head shaking hypocrisy. I also understand that there were Gestapo men due to their expert expeience used in the subseqent cold war period by the US secret world too. I think you are being too kind Frenzie the Americans desperately wanted those scientists so bot the USSR and USA competed to get the experts which hastened them on somewhat or why else bodyswerve them from the Nuremberg trials. They already had a prototype jet fighter being worked on so very clever. As well as the V! and V2 both of which did much damage here in GB.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I hardly think the atom bomb was either an American foundation or German

Its was a German feat.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

In my second visit to the USA I was in NYC on Easter Sunday and 5th Avenue was partly closed off for festivities and I heard the sound of marching and signing. Uo came a company of teenage boys in a uniform led by someone who was a captain (turned out to be a pastor). After they did their wee showI spoke about the nature of such as it was a bit like a world-wide organisation started in Glasgow in 1883. What I found made me sigh. In chatting was that he said he knew about it and made the comment "Yeh you have something like this over there started don't you?" Well yes since 1883 and more before he was active! It's such attitudes that exasperate people elsewhere as if everything was created across the pond and everyone else bit players!

sad as it has been an NYC tradition.

Originally posted by Virusboy:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I hardly think the atom bomb was either an American foundation or German

Its was a German feat.

Not really. There certainly was research in nuclear weapons going on in nazi germany, maybe it was even the first, but it didn't result in anything that could have any impact on the war. Depending on who you're asking it's either because the scientists involved couldn't get it to work for various reasons or because they didn't want to.

But they werent ever publicly credited

Originally posted by Virusboy:

But they werent ever publicly credited

For not getting the results the german military wanted?
Or are you referring to the scientific grunt work involved? You can't get much more credit as a scientist than a Nobel Prize, which several of them got ( Otto Hahn and Werner Heisenberg for example, it's not like the discovery of nuclear fission was an all german affair anyway )

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Certainly the taking of the Nazi scientists to the States was a head shaking hypocrisy. I also understand that there were Gestapo men due to their expert expeience used in the subseqent cold war period by the US secret world too. I think you are being too kind Frenzie the Americans desperately wanted those scientists so bot the USSR and USA competed to get the experts which hastened them on somewhat or why else bodyswerve them from the Nuremberg trials. They already had a prototype jet fighter being worked on so very clever. As well as the V! and V2 both of which did much damage here in GB.

Nazi Germany did accomplish some amazing engineering feats (many due to slave labor, mind you), but if you want to credit the atom bomb to Germany it should be to the Jewish-German scientists who were expelled from and fled from Germany in the '30s. So yes, Nazi-Germany could've had everything first, including the atom bomb, if they hadn't been against the Jews, but how absurd a notion is that?

Originally posted by Macallan:

Or are you referring to the scientific grunt work involved? You can't get much more credit as a scientist than a Nobel Prize, which several of them got ( Otto Hahn and Werner Heisenberg for example, it's not like the discovery of nuclear fission was an all german affair anyway )

Not to mention that they were practicing Jewish Physics; such horror.

Now for the corker: Many of those German scientists who either were expelled or fled Germany began to push hard for the United States to have nuclear fission first because they were afraid of what could happen if Germany got it first. Of course, by the time we got a working bomb the war with Germany was already over, but the point remains that German scientists working on American soil worked major overtime to produce the bomb before their former homeland could do it. Further, I've seen stuff which indicates that German scientists who were supposed to be working on the bomb in Germany were actually stalling and in some cases may have been sabotaging Nazi efforts to develop the bomb.

RJ, in one sense you should be happy it turned out as it did. How do you think your home would have fared if Germany had developed a working bomb and a method for delivering it to the UK? The only problem for the Germans to overcome would have been prevailing winds which would carry fallout back over Germany.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Not to mention that they were practicing Jewish Physics; such horror.

Yeah, the nazi government shot itself in the foot several times in this regard.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Certainly the taking of the Nazi scientists to the States was a head shaking hypocrisy. I also understand that there were Gestapo men due to their expert expeience used in the subseqent cold war period by the US secret world too. I think you are being too kind Frenzie the Americans desperately wanted those scientists so bot the USSR and USA competed to get the experts which hastened them on somewhat or why else bodyswerve them from the Nuremberg trials. They already had a prototype jet fighter being worked on so very clever. As well as the V! and V2 both of which did much damage here in GB.

ScIentists or Nazi scientists? They were guilty of?

I found the following of interest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
At any rate, what leads you to the claim of hypocrisy?

In my view nation are poor candidates for moral standard setters.

You might take a gander at the following taste of imperial loveliness.

Read & weep...

Originally posted by Macallan:

Yeah, the nazi government shot itself in the foot several times in this regard.

I've also heard people argue that the people in eastern Europe were happy to be liberated of Stalin's oppression and were glad to help their liberators, except that within weeks or perhaps even days the ways in which the Nazis treated Untermenschen like the Slavs at the very least made them lose all their street-cred as potential liberators and allies. Exactly how to take that argument I'm not sure because Germany's ethnic policy was certainly already known prior to WW2.

Not so long ago here on the Yesterday Channel they did a series on WW2 and particular people and aspects. One included a Gestapo chief who along with his subordinates murdered a number of British soliders towards the end of the war. Later after the collapse of Germany he ended up doing secret service work for ..no surprise, USA intelligence! This was because he was so experienced and such an anti-Red. So much for the so-called public portrayal by Truman. Considering the long history of such double-standards from the world's "greatest country" and democracy you are on shaky ground there dear Michiganian! Hypocrisy is therefor a reasonable label or maybe duplicitous?.