Don't fly the flag in your country you'll upset incomers....

There has been one almighty uproar in the village of Gamson near Nottingham.

Apparently the Village Council put up the Union Flag back in April for the Royal Wedding. However they decided that it should stay up all year round as a symbol of pride and loyalty to the nation.

Then a small group objected as it was "divisive" to the community. They said it should only fly on some specific occasion say The Queen's Birthday and be put away. Apparently immigrants who moved in were in complaint of the flag. They were led by a woman called Paula O'Brien and she is a "Diversity Lecturer" at Lincoln University (another one of these pointless public jobs that are a waste of tax money). She said the national flag is divisive as the community had immigrant people from other places coming to live! What an airhead and typical of her breed. Her partner is an African and he said it was all wrong to fly it as it made him think they lived near the extremist National Front Headquarters! You couldn't make this damn stuff up. I wonder what the African would have done if someone had said that in his former homeland?

The village is now hopping mad and a Parish Councillor says he will resign if the Council goes back on flying the flag all year round. Pickles the Community Minister at Parliament has praised the villagers and supports them keeping their flag. What they hell are we coming to when we are lectured not to fly our flag in our own country as it upsets incomers? At this rate we will be strangers in our own land. If they don't like it let them damn well b----- off.

Yup, the DM reports every time somebody is being silly, doesn't it?

If immigrants don't like the host country's flag, they can stay home. I reckon RJHowie and I agree on that one.

This being a typical, unsourced, quite difficult to believe rjhowie-read-the-daily-mail horror story I can only wonder what really happened, if anything at all.

I have heard about this also but cannot find it even after some effort at Googling. Maybe tomorrow.

rjh - would you please be more specifically about the source - or better still - give a link where the information is to be found. As yet I can't find Gamson near Nottingham. Do have the right spelling of the name of the Village?

However I don't disbelieve the story and it does illustrate how hangups about this or that sensitivity can muddle and possibly stop fairly traditional practises which have little harm but merely reflect people's desire to celebrate. There's a serious point to discuss here, but I have to say I agree with mjmsprt40 on this one. Live and let live aplies to indigenous people as well as immigrants. (Translated to the US context that would be "Be nice to the Apaches" !.

This link, this one from Scotland does raise the issue of over-reaction to flags, bunting and the like.

There's a Gamston, a suburb south-east of Nottingham, but I can't find any news stories about this.

Usually, with <suchandsuch> are offended by <whatever> stories, it's just some concern troll babbling about what (s)he believes might hurt feelings most actual <suchandsuch> didn't know they have.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

There's a Gamston, a suburb south-east of Nottingham, but I can't find any news stories about this.

Yup. nothing

Nada

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

If immigrants don't like the host country's flag, they can stay home

Yeah, but right now, it's hard for anyone to show that this really even happened, or that "Gamson" even exists ( around the city section . I was able to verify that a tribe called Snotingas lived in the area and imagine, from their name, that they had very poor manners.

I have to side with everybody else here, RJ. A source would be a big help. Google turns up that there is a Gamston, near Nottingham, and there's a few news stories if you're of a notion to look-- but nothing on this flag business. Google Maps was of interest to me--- seems these days I like knowing where stuff is, even if the chances of me going there are slim to none.

In other news, with absolutely no sources beyond my imagination-- the Mayor of Chicago has two heads. Film at eleven.

Headline News - Some People In A Place Have An Opinion That Is Different From The Majority. Civilization Collapses.

Read about it in the Daily Mail.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

-- the Mayor of Chicago has two heads. Film at eleven.

Source, please.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

Headline News - Some People In A Place Have An Opinion That Is Different From The Majority. Civilization Collapses.

Read about it in the Daily Mail.

Damn. Howie was right the whole time. I guess we owe him an apology for ever doubting him.

That's absolutely amazing - not even searching for 'nottingham flag council wedding' which would, you would think, bring back something vaguely relevant. Nothing. Not even any references to it on the Daily Mail website.

Perchance Mr Howie has been duped by a trickster?

I have a suspicion that we've been had. RJ has no source, he made it up out of his own xenophobic mind. At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it-- until RJHowie proves otherwise.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

That's absolutely amazing - not even searching for 'nottingham flag council wedding' which would, you would think, bring back something vaguely relevant. Nothing. Not even any references to it on the Daily Mail website.

Yes, I searched for similar or perhaps even the exact same terms with Nottingham as well as Gamson (probably typo) and Gamston.

The only thing I've personally heard about people getting upset by flags (excluding those silly people who burn American and other Western flags) are those who would presumably be in favor of flying flags. The upset was caused by not taking them down at sunset, because that's apparently proper flag procedure. It's also improper to have flags that start to tatter, so if I actually cared and didn't feel it'd be mostly a type of bullying I ought to complain to the police about the local branch of the nationalist party, which doesn't only flie the Flemish and Antwerpian flags 24/7, but said flags are also clearly tattering and fading.

I'll defend Howie enough to say that I don't think he made it up entirely. There's probably some small, factually challenged partisan ragsheet out there where he read it. It might be so small that it doesn't even have a web presence? Maybe it was a leaflet somebody dropped in the Orange Lodge?

Firstly I cannot recall which newspaper it was in as I read three free papers in a coffee shop. May have been the Express but not sure.

And before the usual cretin minds here led by Macallan mentality warble on calling me a liar. let me make it clear. You think I went to the bother of made up the names of the lecturer at university, the university the name of her partner the government Minister Pickles who supported keeping the flag the village (only mistake was it should be Gamston) and so on. It is enough that I say it to sneer and rubbish and call me a liar. You are in danger mjsmprt37 of being like the Grand Old Duke of York going up the hill and down again! You were right the first time before you got carried away with the would be intelligensia. Dear, oh dear, so easily led! Of course if someone doesn't like the flag and what it represents let them get to blazes out of the country. These nonsenses pop up every now and then

Accusing me of making this up because of small mindedness is rather purile. I have named the people, place, local government Minister. It has happened and if you want to ignore the facts because it doesn't suit that is rather silly. Being called a liar would be more telling if it was coming from sensibles. To those more reasonable that's fine but for the usual smart arse ......

The Express? This one?

IN America citizens learn the national anthem and pledge loyalty to their flag.
Here it seems that our national flag is “offensive” to diversity nutcases who have protested that it should not fly on their village green.

Paula O’Brien, a diversity lecturer, and her partner, diversity officer Roger Henry, choose this time of remembrance to wail that insufficient thought has been given to all the nationalities in the community.

My bet is that, as is often the case, it is not others but the zealots themselves who object.

The village green is a potent symbol of British life.

If this silly pair hate the flag so much then they can emigrate.

But before they go perhaps they can explain why diversity always seem to exclude anything Christian, British or traditional.

Yeah, you can go too far with diversity to the point of taking offense to the flag being shown on the queen's birthday. But you can also be a nutter going the other way, overreacting to a couple idiots. I couldn't find anything on the site searching for Gamston using the site's search engine, but it might only bring up the current day's articles.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

mjsmprt37

What is that in reference to? Is 37 somehow meaningful?

OK, now we have a source. That's all you had to do, RJ, then all the rest of this wouldn't have happened. Now we can argue until the cows come home about how reliable the source is, but we can't doubt that the story exists. Sang dug up the link once you gave him a sufficient clue about where to look.

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

The Express? This one?

IN America citizens learn the national anthem and pledge loyalty to their flag.
Here it seems that our national flag is “offensive” to diversity nutcases who have protested that it should not fly on their village green.

Paula O’Brien, a diversity lecturer, and her partner, diversity officer Roger Henry, choose this time of remembrance to wail that insufficient thought has been given to all the nationalities in the community.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Usually, with <suchandsuch> are offended by <whatever> stories, it's just some concern troll babbling about what (s)he believes might hurt feelings most actual <suchandsuch> didn't know they have.

Holy crap am I a prophet or what?

Originally posted by Macallan:

Holy crap am I a prophet or what?

You are, my friend.

I noticed from wikipedia that there are actually two Gamstons in/near Nottinghamshire. Gamston, Rushcliffe latest population figure is from 1901 at 96 people and Gamston, Bassetlaw doesn't even have a population figure. So she was trolling about 2 people in a one of two tiny little villages Gamston, Rushcliffe might due for some growth if it gets that football stadium, though.

Yes, only a raccoon would go figure that out

Originally posted by Macallan:

Holy crap am I a prophet or what?

There's little profit in being a prophet here, Mac.

Bystander to Jeremiah: Aren't you the prophet?
Jeremiah: I quit it, there was no profit in it.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Holy crap am I a prophet or what?

There's little profit in being a prophet here, Mac.

It's fun though, in a sometimes rather deranged way

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Holy crap am I a prophet or what?

There's little profit in being a prophet here, Mac.

It's fun though, in a sometimes rather deranged way

This is D&D...we do deranged.

That's it? That's the story? Ann Widdecombe ranting in a comment piece about something that no-one else seems to have any information on?

Googling "paula o'brien" "roger henry" gets exactly one match.

https://www.google.com/webhp?q=%22paula+o%27brien%22+%22roger+henry%22#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=off&site=webhp&source=hp&q=%22paula+o%27brien%22+%22roger+henry%22&btnK=Google+Search&pbx=1&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=dc0fd4457872d19a&biw=1044&bih=902

We don't even know what it is that they asked for. Sounds like they just wanted people to remember to make new locals feel welcome.

Row over flying the Union flag in Gamston

Originally posted by string:

Row over flying the Union flag in Gamston

Thanks. It would seem that even the BNP's coverage of the subject is marginally less hysterical than either Ann Widdecombe or rjhowie.

Perhaps if the BNP would stop trying to keep the Union Flag for themselves, no-one would see it as a symbol of xenophobia.

Edit: Looks like this is the original source of that article:
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Row-flying-Union-Jack-Gamston/story-13788215-detail/story.html

`Edit: Looks like this is the original source of that article:`

Strange, that site turned up when I searched for stuff about Nottingham, but not that page.

Meh.
How weak.
For the purposes of trying to discourage people from moving to our area, some locals lift the confederate flag - and if this play makes people go away, that's success.

Fly whatever freaking flag you flying well want to. for any reason or none.

Originally posted by aefields:

Fly whatever freaking flag you flying well want to. for any reason or none.

I hear you!

No-one was being hysterical. Such silly comments are the stand in trade of the so-called open minds here. It is the oldest attempt going at trying to neuter an opinion or factual story. So to does using the rant word yet another stupidity. And once again it appeared in a reference in the Daily Express by Ann Widdicombe. Just because it is mentioned (again!) by someone not liked by the criticiser doesn't make the incident any less valid. If it jumped up and bit some smart alecs here they would still say it didn't happen.

And another attempt to neture is to drag in the BNP just because they emphasise the nation flag. The KKK grab the flag in the USA so does that mean Americans should stop flying the stars and stripes? What a pathetic attempt to whitewash the story! It is utterly ridiculous for 2 so-called diversity experts to want to ban the flag of the country. It was a kind of waste ot time and money educating those two nut jobs.
Anyway, I am content that the incident happened and was reported and I do hope the villagers will tell the clowns that live in their midst to get knotted.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

No-one was being hysterical. Such silly comments are the stand in trade of the so-called open minds here. It is the oldest attempt going at trying to neuter an opinion or factual story. So to does using the rant word yet another stupidity. And once again it appeared in a reference in the Daily Express by Ann Widdicombe. Just because it is mentioned (again!) by someone not liked by the criticiser doesn't make the incident any less valid. If it jumped up and bit some smart alecs here they would still say it didn't happen.

Ann Widdecombe talks nonsense on a frequent basis. That's my opinion. Your reaction, and hers, are nothing short of hysterical - in both senses of the word. That's my opinion.

Who's trying to shut down opinion now?

The incident is invalid because your description of it is not supported by any evidence. The only evidence that is available bears no resemblance to the story that Ann Widdecombe reported, and that you blindly regurgitated. It's got nothing to do with having an open mind, it's about having an informed one. The first stage in that is not jumping to conclusions, and being willing to search out the evidence for yourself.

I might have known you would jump on the bandwagon with your woolly vagueness.

Who said anyone's opinion was not being allowed? The two numpties (you'd probably get on well with them) had their day and the vast majority of the villagers had theirs. And because Widdicome mentioned it that automatically negates it now? She is isn't any more nonsensical than you and that's my opinion.

She only repeated what had already appeared in the paper she writes for a few days previously. So now you are saying that the paper didn't print what I read in the coffee shop? Maybe they just printed one copy for me then? Talk about you being stupid? You are calling me a barefaced liar. If it was anyone else I would be insulted but from your quarter it is lesser important but still needs challenged. You too use the old neat trick I mentioned of either accusing anyone of a strong opinion as hysterical or try to insinuate to suggest a wont. Being a great practioner of a wont I demurr that epitaph to yourself. That you accuse Ann Widdicombe of making this up shows you need someone to look at your brain cells.

Why for goodness sake would someone like her in a national newspaper want to make it up? She would be automaticcally called a fool and the Express would not have printed what she said if the incident hadn't happened. Never mind the village getting in on the matter.

You are too ridiculous for words and stupidly absurd. So you have done well wee brain - the Express is lying - Widdombe and me! You need to get out the house more but then there is no law (yet) to ban cretins.

Following my last contribution I now add this link which is from the BBC which followed up the newspaper story.

So those that suggested I was being disingenuous can now if they are so big on opinions and sneering negative vibes towards me can now apologise for calling me a liar. You can start johnnysaucepn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-15660275

Or do you want to call the BBC a liar too and make it 4 liars in a row......?

ps I didn't make this video up.......

Originally posted by rjhowie:

I might have known you would jump on the bandwagon with your woolly vagueness.

Ugh. Woolly vagueness is exactly what I have a problem with. You take something that someone wrote in a newspaper somewhere that you don't have any more that no-one can find any source for, and present it as an absolute fact. That's the wooliest thinking I've ever seen around here.

No-one accused you of being a barefaced liar. They accused you of blindly believing something you had no source for, and for trying to make us believe it too. Ann Widdecombe, based on her past history, is not a credible source, or an unbiased reporter. She was writing an opinion piece.

You have to sharpen up your critical thinking skills if you want anyone to take you seriously. Throwing around insults needs to be your last resort, it shows that you've run out of debate.

Just watched that video you posted. It supports the information posted in the news articles already. It does not support your interpretation.
There is no good reason for the flag to be flying all the time. The only argument in play seems to be "because it's the British flag".

Well excuse me start one but in this thread I was being treated negatively and that includes you so don't sit on your high horse too long. And rather than admit anything you still bleat about Ann Widdicombe as some fig-leaf like the others here. It doesn't matter tuppence whethere she is likable or not she based her comments on an actual happening and that is what is important not the contributer the media outlet or anything else. And all that guff about skills as yet another fig-leaf rather than admit anything even if in your face.

Just as expetced you and similar cromines are so alike and obvious. Ha, ha, true to expentant form. Maybe the BBC made that news item up to give me some credence. Bully for them!

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

I hear you!

: becomes a fierce patriot straight away : She has every right to display her just about a perfect body display her national pride.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-15660275

OK, cool. I think the guy 1:04 is right. It loses its impact if it stays up all the time. Now I can see raising it again to show respect for the death of retired councillor . But if council member threating to resign will quit over this, go quit and sit in your crying corner, quitter.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

It doesn't matter tuppence whethere she is likable or not she based her comments on an actual happening and that is what is important not the contributer the media outlet or anything else.

She did not. Which vindicates my assessment.

Do you stand by your statements on the events in Gamston? Do you have a shred of evidence to back up your claims?

Nobody is calling you a liar. You have been called mistaken. Some have speculated that you have been misled, some have speculated that you have been reporting events in a way as to be misleading.

Either way, your assessment of events proves to be inaccurate.

Oh dear, talk about drawing blood and anything but admit something. Instead we get this drawn out like an elastic band rather than admit to anything. You are so used to being all things and nothing. We had queries here about the very village whether the flag incident happened, whether it had been reported and so on. And now even if a national outlet (eg. BBC reports it happened) the thing will be twisted to in turn show I distorted something that was being challenged in the first place! You couldn't make you up!

On a wider note. Sanguinemoon what is the principled problem if it was wanted to fly a flag all year round? It happens in America a lot more than over here. They fly the flag everywhere except in the toilet for goodness sake. hat does suggest being too much and in fact a weakness they need so much of it? We aren't over the top like them and when occasionally someone wants to fly it 365 years this is grumbled at as not being something quite right? Gobblygook. At the village isn't the only place the flag flies continually. If it is so much a sniffyness maybe emigration is the answer?

Nationalism is not trendy our days.
The populace prefers to wallow into the "democratic, internationalist" mud. Natural for those who don't have lineage.

I flew a flag for a while after 9/11, nearly everybody seems to have been doing it then. For a while, the company I drove for had the flag sown on our uniforms-- it fit because the company name is Veterans Messenger Service, and the flag fits right in with that company name.

These days we don't fly the flag quite as much as RJHowie would have you believe, but it's still flown at the usual places-- town halls, police and fire departments, in front of nearly every school and so on. Some people who either have a strong patriotic streak in them or who have relatives serving in the military fly it. While my dad lived, he flew it frequently. He was a WW2 vet, and it really meant a lot to him.

Me, I'm not quite that wildly flag-waving patriotic these days, but still if my country's back is to the wall I'll be there.

Word to the wise: Much of this present dust-up in this thread could have been prevented by posting a link to the story. Every paper these days has an on-line component and if you read it in print at a coffee shop, it should be possible to find the on-line story so you can link to it. Then, we can argue about the reliability of the media outlet, but nobody can say anything about the poster's reliability or lack thereof. Cover your back-- it saves a lot of problems later.

Furthering the point about links: I found the following article about a guy making excuses for not hanging out with his friends. The story is absolutely bogus, from possibly one of the most unreliable sources on the planet--- but nobody can say I didn't actually read the story and made it up from my own head. Read and enjoy, and have a good laugh.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/friends-excuses-for-why-he-cant-hang-out-getting-m,26600/

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

These days we don't fly the flag quite as much as RJHowie would have you believe, but it's still flown at the usual places-- town halls, police and fire departments,

That's part of the answer I was going to give to Howie. What makes people over there even begin to think we fly the flag all the damn time, except in those places. Macallan mentioned Walmarts flying flags, here they don't (In Tn and other more conservative parts of the country, it's probably simply good business to do so.) Anyway the "principled problem" of having it all year around is that after a while, it stops meaning anything. You see it everyday long enough and your eyes learn to completely ignore it. When I lived n Clarksville, Tn, they tried to flag the flag every few hundred feet down Madison Street a while, soon they turned turned into red, white and blue rags.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/friends-excuses-for-why-he-cant-hang-out-getting-m,26600/

Ah The Onion, one of my favorite news sources. Nobody can beat the Weekly World News, though How to sell your soul the the Devil , very informative. All of us in Vegas are probably going to Hell for our debauchery and greed anyway, so might as well get the Red Guy give us a few million to play in the casinos with for now

This guy can probably get us all off when it's time to "pay"

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

These days we don't fly the flag quite as much as RJHowie would have you believe, but it's still flown at the usual places-- town halls, police and fire departments, in front of nearly every school and so on.

I'd expect it on more prominent government buildings, if only as a marker. Where I'm from it's kind of toned down though - buildings belonging to the federal government would usually have the coat of arms ( fat hen, ugly bird, etc. ) somewhere semi-prominent, sometimes on a flag, state governments would either have the respective state flag or coat of arms - the preference depends on the state. Flag-related rituals at schools have unfortunate implications though.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

These days we don't fly the flag quite as much as RJHowie would have you believe, but it's still flown at the usual places-- town halls, police and fire departments, in front of nearly every school and so on.

Ah, but that's where you're wrong.

I don't know about the UK/Scotland, but in the Netherlands (and I think in Belgium too, but I'm not going to go by the police station just to check if I'm right) if the police flies a flag, it's typically going to be a flag with the police logo. Same for the fire brigade. The districthouse/civilian affairs tend not to fly any flags at all (sometimes the municipal flag; I'm not saying some don't fly the Dutch flag either), but the city hall often does fly several flags: that very much depends on the municipality it's in. Of course on e.g. Queen's Day they do fly the Dutch flag.

So if Scotland is like the Netherlands, rjhowie's not wrong based on your example.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

These days we don't fly the flag quite as much as RJHowie would have you believe, but it's still flown at the usual places-- town halls, police and fire departments, in front of nearly every school and so on.

Ah, but that's where you're wrong.

I don't know about the UK/Scotland, but in the Netherlands (and I think in Belgium too, but I'm not going to go by the police station just to check if I'm right) if the police flies a flag, it's typically going to be a flag with the police logo. Same for the fire brigade. The districthouse/civilian affairs tend not to fly any flags at all (sometimes the municipal flag; I'm not saying some don't fly the Dutch flag either), but the city hall often does fly several flags: that very much depends on the municipality it's in. Of course on e.g. Queen's Day they do fly the Dutch flag.

So if Scotland is like the Netherlands, rjhowie's not wrong based on your example.

I wasn't saying anything about what happens elsewhere. RJ's remark was about how much we fly the flag here in the states, and I was responding to that. Every nation and people have different customs, so it wouldn't surprise me to find there are places where the national flag is only flown at the nation's capital, and other places where it's flown or displayed everywhere that it's possible to display it.

True, I have overlooked the hyperbole in the second sentence, but the "a lot more than over here" from the first sentence is a simple fact (except possibly on the water: do all American ships fly American flags?).

Originally posted by rjhowie:

It happens in America a lot more than over here. They fly the flag everywhere except in the toilet for goodness sake.

Well I stand by what I said mjsmsprt37. It is not just on public buildings as you claim. Every time we see any programme about America and routine things the flag appears willy-nilly and on private homes is legion! It is so common place in all sorts of buildings and places I am sure the locals don't notice it. I don't have a problem with people flying their national flag but it is more widespread in the Ex-Colonies than most other places.

That being the general case and allowing for considerations that there should be critisicm about us flying our national flag in a village is utterly bonkers. So what if the villagers in the main want to fly it? The two "Diversity experts" who live together have a damn cheek. Considering one is from outside Gt Britain and says because some more extreme group flies it then it should be curtailed shows he is a thicko and too much credence is given to that kind of stupidity. The African was dragging in un-called for stuff like racist remarks. He comes here, gets the benefits of the society but doesn't want the flag? Damn nerve. As for that partner the lecturer she is another one of these PC, liberal do-gooders that should get a straight jacket for Christmas. With an SNP lot in power up here they wax on about the St Andrew's Saltire and want it flown 365 years so how about the two clowns going on about that then? The SNP acts as if the flag is theirs.

My organisation flies the Union Flag 365 days over all it's halls so wheesht don't tell the two nut jobs as I might get diversified or something?!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Every time we see any programme about America and routine things the flag appears willy-nilly and on private homes is legion!

Really? You can drive through the entire Mountain's Edge neighborhood (approximately 70,000 people) and not see one, unless it's Veteran's Day or the Fourth of July Now I want to know what kind of anti-American propaganda they serve you over there, making us look like a bunch of rednecks.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

My organisation flies the Union Flag 365 days over all it's halls so wheesht don't tell the two nut jobs as I might get diversified or something?!

You probably do need to get diversified. The same 17th century ideas have floating forever, and any "new" ideas you guys have is the result of a kind of intellectual inbreeding (a mash between old ideas). Maybe with some new blood and new ideas, you wouldn't have strokes over two people in a tiny little village.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

That being the general case and allowing for considerations that there should be critisicm about us flying our national flag in a village is utterly bonkers. So what if the villagers in the main want to fly it?

Then why didn't they do it before? Why is it a story, when they're not changing the way they do thing a tiny little bit? They didn't fly the flag all the time in the past, and they're not doing it now.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

The two "Diversity experts" who live together have a damn cheek.

Which two 'diversity experts' have said such things? We only have your word that anyone said anything so we can't verify their statements.

Well you are diversified and look at the social mix and mess mess the place is in Sanguinemoon? Your jails are heavily weighted for one section of the diversified. You can scoff all you like about past traditions here but even your silly bit of paper called a Constitution (and it's string of Amendments you have been arguing over for 200 years) was heavily influenced by a document here in 1688. Namely the Bill of Rights enacted by King William 3rd so you are not averse to using the past when it suits you. We have no written consitution at all and just as good a democracy as any especially yours which has a history of constant contravention of all the high sounding stuff in the US Constitution. For all it's content people have had to fight to get rights still.

As got the flowing of your flag. Of course you can always quotes incidents for any argument but continually we see on screens here flags on and in shops, on houses (especially) and so on. Any bad PR is caused by your own country's attitude in the world at large so we cannot blame everything on the rednecks even if they are the most belligerent flag nuts.

As for those diversity experts jonnysaucepn they were objecting to flag being flown at all. Can I remind you that the immigrant half of the two automatically put the flag into the realm of extremists?? And even if the village decided to fly the flag permanently there is not great principle at stake is there? We can change our minds you know at elections, arguments or whatever. It is called democracy. The woman was of the bent that the flag doesn't encourage diversity? Oh yeah right. Well we have had immigrant flows in the past and I don't see the flag having been a stumbling block. If they come here and live by the laws then that includes our freedoms, way of life and national matters. The flag represents everyone. For her stupid partner to actually say it gave him the thought he was living near the National Front HQ is not just plain stupid but ridiculous. She is of the same ilk and PC brigade. You would be at home with them.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

As for those diversity experts jonnysaucepn they were objecting to flag being flown at all.

Did they? Where did they say that? In that article you read, which you cannot provide any source for? Unless you can let us read what they said, your claim resides in the realm of hearsay and innuendo. You will always believe what you want to believe - even facts won't sway you.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Can I remind you that the immigrant half of the two automatically put the flag into the realm of extremists??

The flag is already in the hands of extremists. Remember that video you linked to? People already see people flying the flag full-time and think - xenophobic nutcase. That's not because of their woolly liberal views, but because of the real damage done in the false name of patriotism.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

It is called democracy.

Yes. And the majority think that the flag should be flown on special occasions. It's funny how you're selective about which minority opinions get given undo prominence, isn't it?

About how much the US flag is flown here in the states: I checked probably a couple hundred photos I have in my possession, and found one with the flag in it. One. It was at my uncle's place, and he's the last of his generation in my family-- a WW2 vet.

I don't know about the photos and videos that get exported, but the stuff we see here all the time just doesn't display the flag all that much. Sure, you see it all over at the big national holidays, like the 4th of July and Veterans Day and Memorial Day, but the rest of the time not so much. It's flown at town halls, police and fire stations, schools and post offices. Otherwise, I really have to look for one if I want to see one flying. I have a practical reason for wanting to see the flag, apart from any patriotic feelings--- they make great weather vanes. When I'm having a bit of trouble on the road with the van pulling to one side, a quick look at a flag will confirm whether it's a heavy cross wind or if I've got mechanical troubles. Strange how few flags you see when you really want one.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

You can scoff all you like about past traditions here but even your silly bit of paper called a Constitution (and it's string of Amendments you have been arguing over for 200 years)

Are you quit sure nobody is spiking your Irn Bru for you? No, all traditions are not scoff at in the name of the Constitution.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

As got the flowing of your flag. Of course you can always quotes incidents for any argument but continually we see on screens here flags on and in shops, on houses (especially) and so on.

Nonsense. Myself and other Americans such as mjmsprt40 actually live here and we're here to tell you that's a ludicrous stereotype. No, most shops (either chains or locally owned) do not have the flag. A few do, but that's the rare exception rather than the rule.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Can I remind you that the immigrant half of the two automatically put the flag into the realm of extremists??

So what? An immigrant and his partner out of country of how many million people again? You can't let a right-wing columnist upset you so. It's bad for your health, brah. If Irn Bru has a decaf version, maybe you should switch.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Strange how few flags you see when you really want one.

Well sure. You can do a Google search like this and get exactly what you're looking for. It might seem obvious to us, but apparently not to some.

But vilifying exceptions is the only way that rjhowie can continue to convince himself that he's under attack!

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

Originally posted by rjhowie:

As got the flowing of your flag. Of course you can always quotes incidents for any argument but continually we see on screens here flags on and in shops, on houses (especially) and so on.

Nonsense. Myself and other Americans such as mjmsprt40 actually live here and we're here to tell you that's a ludicrous stereotype. No, most shops (either chains or locally owned) do not have the flag. A few do, but that's the rare exception rather than the rule.

In all fairness, there are shops that I frequent that do have the flag displayed in just about every way it's possible to display it.The shops I mention here are truck stops. Truckers, it seems, take their flags pretty seriously-- both Old Glory and the Confederate Flag, depending on what part of the country you're in, and all displayed right next to the religious books--- did I mention that truck stops are second only to Christian bookstores for the purchase of Christian reading material?? Well, I did now.

I do hope the rabid put downers here noted the reasonable points of mjsmsprt37. A bit more sensible than the waffle of Sanguinemoon. If anyone does anything to your flag Sanguinemoon all hell breaks loose so we need no lectures even from non-rednecks.

The trouble is that "only 2" represent a wider constituency of PC "experts" who are of the same mind. If people are that silly about a flag and country institutions etc, let them get to heck out of it. Too many incomers who are always keen to do us in but accept our benefits show little respect for the flag or country. The last government swamped us with over 2 million to add to the Welfare bills inclkuding a lot who want to bomb us out of existence. They recognise nothing about us but our generosity when it comes to money dished out..

Originally posted by rjhowie:

I do hope the rabid put downers here noted the reasonable points of mjsmsprt37. A bit more sensible than the waffle of Sanguinemoon. If anyone does anything to your flag Sanguinemoon all hell breaks loose so we need no lectures even from non-rednecks.

There are no put-downers, because you have never put anything up.

mjmsprt40 actually backs up Sang's point. Have you ever heard the phrase "the exception that proves the rule?" Most people use it wrong - but this is a perfect example of how it should be used. By mjsmprt37 only being able to present one specific exception, he illustrates the strength of the original statement.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

I do hope the rabid put downers here noted the reasonable points of mjsmsprt37. A bit more sensible than the waffle of Sanguinemoon. If anyone does anything to your flag Sanguinemoon all hell breaks loose so we need no lectures even from non-rednecks.

It's a shame you don't know a bit more about the "Ex-Colonies" in general, and truck stops in particular. Truck stops are red-neck joints if ever such exists, and I frequent enough of them in my travels to know. You might or might not see a flag flying outside, but inside they sell. Flags, stickers shaped like flags, bumper stickers with patriotic sayings, you name it. Right next to the religious books. Right next to the pro-gun rights stuff.

But, that's truck stops. Go to your local Wally World or Target, and you might have a bit more trouble finding a flag. Many stores don't have
flags either flying or for sale except at the big national holidays. Go through many an American neighborhood, and you'll be all day trying to find one flag in front of somebody's house--- and if you do, ten gets you one that the person who lives in that house is either a vet himself or has a son or daughter presently serving.

Edit: It's a small point, RJHowie, but you might at least make some effort to get my username right. Copy-and-paste if you have to, it's not that hard.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

It's a shame you don't know a bit more about the "Ex-Colonies" in general, and truck stops in particular.

Don't confuse the poor man with facts
( ten bucks say he won't read or comprehend what you just wrote )

Now the resident smart-alec and comedian as usual throws in his caustic personality. Tur to form Mcallan. One compliment and that is you are consistent in your arrogant smugness. Imagine an American accusing someone elsewhere of confusing facts and fiction?!

Yeah Chicagoan I had noticed that myself. Some time I wil get round to something nice about Chicago to make up.

q.e.d.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Edit: It's a small point, RJHowie, but you might at least make some effort to get my username right.

I think he does know your username, but 37 means something to him, but he won't say what. If even he won't say what, I don't think he I want to know

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Truck stops are red-neck joints if ever such exists, and I frequent enough of them in my travels to know.

Oh yeah, and in rural Tennessee I saw some regular, non-truckstop joints having them (and deerheads mounted on the wall, gross) But surely you don't mean to say that America is a large and diverse country and that one stereotype can't even begin to apply across the country

Fwiw, I'm still reppin Mississippi regardless of what newcomers think.

Yeah good idea Mac-the-knife. Keep your replies short, spluttering and typing is a multitask stretching things.

Nice flags there I must confess thedawgfan and the Scots connection very lucid. Apart from the Union Flag (ours) the Imperial Russian one I must get a Southern one. And that gentleman and principled man General Robert E. Lee, looks down at me from the wall. Just a pity, just a pity.........