Petition for the right not to eat animals in French schools

Petition for the right not to eat animals in French schools

A recent decree by the French government has imposed animal products at each meal in French cafeterias. This means that in schools, universities, enterprises, everywhere meals are prepared for a community, there is no option left for those who do not wish to eat animals.
The French Vegetarians Association, in cooperation with other organizations, is trying to obtain the withdraw of this decree, which is a very hard task because of the huge power of the agribusiness lobbies - first industry in France, above the automobile!

There is a petition online to support the reaction against this decree. I hope many of you will sign it (the text is in English). This is not about making vegetarians those who wish to stay omnivore: it is simply against a discrimination of which we are the victims in the interest of the agribusiness. A large number of signatures from abroad will hopefully be a strong support to our action against this French shame.

The address is of the petition is: http://petition.icdv.info/en/

Thanks in advance for your help!

Bubble and squeak gets its name from the sound it makes as it is cooking. It is a popular breakfast or supper dish in England

http://www.whats4eats.com/breakfast/bubble-and-squeak-recipe
Don't ask me, I just post here.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Bubble and squeak gets its name from the sound it makes as it is cooking. It is a popular breakfast or supper dish in England

http://www.whats4eats.com/breakfast/bubble-and-squeak-recipe
Don't ask me, I just post here.

Yeah, like I'll believe an American website.

I am English & I personally have never known anyone eat bubble & squeak for breakfast. I've never known anyone intentionally buy warm beer in a pub either. You shouldn't believe everything you read on US websites probably designed by people who couldn't find the UK on a map. I used to live in Wales & regularly ate bara lafwr for breakfast. I'm betting you'll have to google that!

This is what a traditional English breakfast looks like.

OK, I will admit a lot of people probably just eat cornflakes.

Oh yeah, I forgot ... I also lemon marmalade on toast for breakfast.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

we're not made for eating things like leaves and grass

Not only are we suited to eat seeds of grasses, there is a strong argument that our civilisation is based on it. If it hadn't been for the amazing success of grasses, there might not be the amazing success of the human species.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Wow, in the Netherlands (or at least where I grew up) that was the complete opposite at elementary school. If you stayed at school for lunch you had to bring your own lunch or you'd starve.

In Norway as well, bring your own food in greased paper or don't eat at all.

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

Quite. Here's some the real arguments for vegetarian diet. This article focus on the nutritional aspects, specifically protein. It argues there's no need to take supplants for protein, and, indeed, Americans would well be taking too much protein (citing that a typical American breakfast contains 4X your needed protein and too much protein can cause kidney damage)

No, that's not an argument again eating meat. It's an argument against the 'typical' American breakfast, if that's really what it is. Too much of anything is likely to cause damage. That's why it's called 'too much'.

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

And your perceptions of vegetarian arguments is cartoonish at best.

It's obvious that humans have the ability to be omnivorous (although without tools, catching must types of prey would be futile since humans lack claws, running speed, sharp enough teeth, etc) , but a quick reference breaking down why humans are biologically herbivores

Um, that's not much better.

Typical American breakfast...hogwash.

The last time I had bacon was for our evening meal. Any questions?

Originally posted by jax:

Not only are we suited to eat seeds of grasses, there is a strong argument that our civilisation is based on it. If it hadn't been for the amazing success of grasses, there might not be the amazing success of the human species.

Of course, but I was talking about leaves of grass, like many of our domestic animals do. But we are certainly more adept at picking up grains than hares. I often used to see hares pulling down the sticks in the middle of the grass with the seeds on it so they could munch on the seeds.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

I've never known anyone intentionally buy warm beer in a pub either.

It depends on what you mean by warm. If you're used to beer with a temperature of 1°-7°C (fridge temperature), then beer at 12-16°C is "warm." As far as I'm concerned decent beer and wine is best enjoyed at "cellar temperature," roughly meaning the 12°-16°C I just mentioned. Of course warming up beer or wine that's too cold is easily done by laying your hand upon the glass, while putting ice cubes in beer or wine that's too warm is… questionable. I would add that in America I would always have to ask for a glass after ordering a bottled beer.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Typical American breakfast...hogwash.

That reminds me of Shredded Wheat, which is an alleged breakfast cereal in the UK. It seems to consist of just dry wheat & ran with an advertising slogan of 'Nowt tek'n owt' (nothing taken out) it may help if you understand that there are a plethora of regional accents in England & this was almost certainly a southern idea of what northern accents sound like. I'm just surprised that they didn't mention whippets, brass bands & euphoniums. Anyway, we're too busy eating proper breakfasts in the North to take any notice of poncey southern advertising campaigns. As for 'nowt tek'n owt', I believe you actually have to have substance to a product before you can actually remove anything from it. Perhaps they were referring to various bugs or mould growths that were left included for taste. Either way, Shredded Wheat is crap to fry up with eggs & bacon.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

The last time I had bacon was for our evening meal. Any questions?

Do you eat *bacon sarnies with **HP Sauce?

*Bacon sarnies can be eaten at any time of course.

**I actually prefer Daddies Brown Sauce.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

That reminds me of Shredded Wheat, which is an alleged breakfast cereal in the UK. It seems to consist of just dry wheat & ran with an advertising slogan of 'Nowt tek'n owt' (nothing taken out) it may help if you understand that there are a plethora of regional accents in England & this was almost certainly a southern idea of what northern accents sound like. I'm just surprised that they didn't mention whippets, brass bands & euphoniums. Anyway, we're too busy eating proper breakfasts in the North to take any notice of poncey southern advertising campaigns.

No, that was Allinson's Bread. Voiced by Brian Glover, an actual Yorkshireman.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

That reminds me of Shredded Wheat, which is an alleged breakfast cereal in the UK. It seems to consist of just dry wheat & ran with an advertising slogan of 'Nowt tek'n owt' (nothing taken out) it may help if you understand that there are a plethora of regional accents in England & this was almost certainly a southern idea of what northern accents sound like. I'm just surprised that they didn't mention whippets, brass bands & euphoniums. Anyway, we're too busy eating proper breakfasts in the North to take any notice of poncey southern advertising campaigns.

No, that was Allinson's Bread. Voiced by Brian Glover, an actual Yorkshireman.

There's always bloody one, isn't there? OK smart arse, so what was the slogan for Shredded Wheat?

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

There's always bloody one, isn't there? OK smart arse, so what was the slogan for Shredded Wheat?

The closest would be Ian Botham (a cricketer, for those across the pond) telling us that Shredded Wheat is made from 100% whole wheat.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

There's always bloody one, isn't there? OK smart arse, so what was the slogan for Shredded Wheat?

The closest would be Ian Botham (a cricketer, for those across the pond) telling us that Shredded Wheat is made from 100% whole wheat.

Oh OK. You watch far too much television btw. Get out more.

EDIT: I've just remembered what Botham is most famous for & he probably had the munchies so bad he would actually eat the stuff himself!

The only decent breakfast is the Continental one.
Coffee, croissants, brioche and toasts with fresh butter and assorted fruit jam. Orange juice.
Civilization can't get better than this.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

The only decent breakfast is the Continental one.

Yes, I've eaten it: Smelly coffee, stale bread & dodgy looking preserves. Urgh!

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Civilization can't get better than this.

There is no civilisation left on the Continent. I know, I've drank pasteurised Continental lager beer (I will admit it is better than US beer).

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

I've never known anyone intentionally buy warm beer in a pub either.

It depends on what you mean by warm. If you're used to beer with a temperature of 1°-7°C (fridge temperature), then beer at 12-16°C is "warm." As far as I'm concerned decent beer and wine is best enjoyed at "cellar temperature," roughly meaning the 12°-16°C I just mentioned. Of course warming up beer or wine that's too cold is easily done by laying your hand upon the glass, while putting ice cubes in beer or wine that's too warm is… questionable. I would add that in America I would always have to ask for a glass after ordering a bottled beer.

WTF?

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

WTF?

I'm saying that I doubt many would buy actually warm beer (i.e. 18+°C), but depending on your point of reference, plenty of people buy "warm" beer. I wouldn't want to ruin a good English ale by overchilling it. The Miller/Heineken public probably wouldn't understand, and they'd be the ones who'd say I sometimes drink warm beer.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

WTF?

I'm saying that I doubt many would buy actually warm beer (i.e. 18+°C),

I've never intentionally bought warm beer in an English pub. A few weeks ago, at my local, the barmaid forgot to turn the chillers on, the IPA was a bit warm in that case.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

but depending on your point of reference, plenty of people buy "warm" beer.

No they don't.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I wouldn't want to ruin a good English ale by overchilling it.

I should hope not!

Originally posted by Frenzie:

The Miller/Heineken public probably wouldn't understand, and they'd be the ones who'd say I sometimes drink warm beer.

I can't speak for the Miller/Heineken drinkers, they only have my commiseration. I was referring to most Americans, who consistently seem to inform me that the entire English race drink warm beer.

I refuse to believe anyone with any sense of taste drinks pasteurised lager beer, warm or cold, anyway.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

but depending on your point of reference, plenty of people buy "warm" beer.

No they don't.

Right now it's 9°C out: it's warm. If it were 9°C in July, it'd be freezing. It's relative to a point of reference, as well as hyperbolic. I'm just saying you likely mean different things with the word warm, in order to hopefully forge some kind of mutual understanding between you and the presumably annoying Americans who say English people drink warm beer.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

I can't speak for the Miller/Heineken drinkers, they only have my commiseration. I was referring to most Americans, who consistently seem to inform me that the entire English race drink warm beer.

Eh, my opinion is that the less chilled Heineken is, the worse it is to drink. My experience with Miller suggests it's a lot worse than Heineken, which is quite an accomplishment. Aldi sells el cheapo übercrappy German lager that's better than either of them.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

but depending on your point of reference, plenty of people buy "warm" beer.

No they don't.

Right now it's 9°C out: it's warm. If it were 9°C in July, it'd be freezing. It's relative to a point of reference, as well as hyperbolic. I'm just saying you likely mean different things with the word warm,

No, warm beer has been left out in the sun too long.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

in order to hopefully forge some kind of mutual understanding between you and the presumably annoying Americans who say English people drink warm beer.

I think that you are over-thinking this, we are talking about Americans. Most Americans I have spoken to believe we drink warm beer. I know Americans personally who still can't get over the fact that they can go into an English pub & buy beer (of any description) that isn't warm.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Eh, my opinion is that the less chilled Heineken is, the worse it is to drink. My experience with Miller suggests it's a lot worse than Heineken, which is quite an accomplishment.

I wouldn't freeze either of them into a lollipop.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Aldi sells el cheapo übercrappy German lager that's better than either of them.

Aldi's cheap whiskey isn't bad either.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

I think that you are over-thinking this, we are talking about Americans. Most Americans I have spoken to believe we drink warm beer. I know Americans personally who still can't get over the fact that they can go into an English pub & buy beer (of any description) that isn't warm.

Well, my personal experience with Americans is the opposite.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

I think that you are over-thinking this, we are talking about Americans. Most Americans I have spoken to believe we drink warm beer. I know Americans personally who still can't get over the fact that they can go into an English pub & buy beer (of any description) that isn't warm.

Well, my personal experience with Americans is the opposite.

Why doesn't this surprise me?

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Aldi's cheap whiskey isn't bad either.

I forgot to say, but I'm sure you inferred, that Aldi's beer is like a third or a fourth of the price of Heineken.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Why doesn't this surprise me?

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Aldi's cheap whiskey isn't bad either.

I forgot to say, but I'm sure you inferred, that Aldi's beer is like a third or a fourth of the price of Heineken.

Yeah, ALDI rocks (well, as much as a supermarket chain can rock).

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Why doesn't this surprise me?

Edit: since many are very confused, my bad. This should help, We have evolved to eat meat without issue.

Originally posted by Virusboy:

Edit: since many are very confused, my bad. This should help, We have evolved to eat meat without issue.

If I eat meat, I'm pretty sure it gives me an issue. Brussels Sprouts are worse though. The plain fact of the matter is that human beings can survive on a pure vegetable/fruit diet, but we can't survive on a pure meat diet for very long, well, unless you don't mind scurvy. Technically we are omnivores.

Yeah, raw meat is full of bacteria you don't really want to insert into your body. I guess that might not be an issue if you eat it directly after you caught it or something, but can humans really do much besides scavenge for meat without tools?

A raw vegetarian diet isn't recommended either due to things like osteoporosis, although it's not really clear to me why that would be. Sure, you can't eat things like kidney beans, potatoes or Brussels sprouts without cooking 'em, but are they really that important in that regard?

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Yeah, raw meat is full of bacteria you don't really want to insert into your body. I guess that might not be an issue if you eat it directly after you caught it or something, but can humans really do much besides scavenge for meat without tools?

Cooking meat precedes modern humans.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

A raw vegetarian diet isn't recommended either due to things like osteoporosis, although it's not really clear to me why that would be. Sure, you can't eat things like kidney beans, potatoes or Brussels sprouts without cooking 'em, but are they really that important in that regard?

Nuts?

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

No, that's not an argument again eating meat. It's an argument against the 'typical' American breakfast, if that's really what it is. Too much of anything is likely to cause damage. That's why it's called 'too much'.

True. The article was trying to address the common question of how vegetarians get their protein by saying that a vegetarian get all the protein he needs from plant sources and pointing out that Americans actually get too much.

Sorry, we all have our off days, I guess


Mini-Wheats? This a little funny.

From the Strawberry Mini-Wheats site

Allergens

CONTAINS WHEAT INGREDIENTS

Whew..at least people allergic to wheat will know not to eat Mini-Wheats....

You don't know who to listen to these days in practice. Things we were told are good for you then out comes a report to say the opposite. Recently one such investigation said apples could be bad for you.....

I dunno about apples themselves being bad, but what I did hear is that so many pesticides, etc are used in growing them that you do need to make sure to wash the fruit thoroughly before eating. Whole wheat is definitely good for you, unless you have a allergies of course. For a while there was a sort of hysteria about "carbs", resulting in fast food places such as Carl's Junior offering hamburgers wrapped in lettuce instead of rolls as if it was the bread making people fat instead of the 1/3 - full pound burger, mayonnaise, 2 pieces of cheese, bacon (optional) that made people fat

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

I would say that the French are right if they say they don't have to listen to what people in the United States say about their school lunch programs. That was the faulty premise of this thread:

Eh... it's true that whatever petition non-French make doesn't have to influence the French. On the other hand, if lots of people protest something you're doing, it might be worth reviewing your decisions.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

You don't know who to listen to these days in practice. Things we were told are good for you then out comes a report to say the opposite. Recently one such investigation said apples could be bad for you.....

If there's one favour I could ask of you, it's this - please, please take anything you read in science reporting in newspapers with a pinch of salt. The process of getting research to the page goes something like this (not a real example, not sure which apple story you've seen):

• Researchers (usually universities) do some research, come up with some minor result - for example, that a certain enzyme extracted from apples, concentrated 1000-fold and applied to bacterial cultures, causes a change in reproductive frequency.
• The university press office, generally staffed by non-scientists, and keen for promotion and publicity, puts out a hysterical press release that they've made the breakthrough that an enzyme in apples is bad for fertility.
• The newspapers pick up the release, are desperate for column inches to fill, and don't have the scientific training, inclination or time to go to the original story, speak to the authors and find out what the story really is - they just run with APPLES WILL MAKE YOU INFERTILE, SAY BOFFINS.
• Everyone tuts over these silly scientists and their nonsense.

This is definitely one area where you should shoot the messenger.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

If there's one favour I could ask of you, it's this - please, please take anything you read in science reporting in newspapers with a pinch of salt.

Absolutely not! Salt is bad for you. I read that in a newspaper recently.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Yeah, raw meat is full of bacteria you don't really want to insert into your body. I guess that might not be an issue if you eat it directly after you caught it or something, but can humans really do much besides scavenge for meat without tools?

Cooking meat precedes modern humans.

It would certainly make sense. Cooking meat makes it usable for much longer periods of time, ergo those who'd be able to process cooked meat better would have a competitive advantage, much like how our more recent ancestors thrived thanks to milk.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

A raw vegetarian diet isn't recommended either due to things like osteoporosis, although it's not really clear to me why that would be. Sure, you can't eat things like kidney beans, potatoes or Brussels sprouts without cooking 'em, but are they really that important in that regard?

Nuts?

Are you saying it's crazy or that people attempting a raw vegetarian diet should eat a lot of nuts?

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

I dunno about apples themselves being bad, but what I did hear is that so many pesticides, etc are used in growing them that you do need to make sure to wash the fruit thoroughly before eating.

I doubt that helps; such pesticides integrate themselves into the skin of fruit and vegetables. But no matter how bad it is, chances are it's not as bad in the EU as in the US. For example, in my youth you could store potatoes for a long time, possibly even months. You had to peel the skin because of pesticides. Now potatoes only keep a few weeks at most, but they say you should keep the skin on because it contains many good things. All I know is that it tastes good to keep it on, and what tastes good (to me) is usually good for you.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Absolutely not! Salt is bad for you. I read that in a newspaper recently.

I read on some very trustworthy-looking site ("you have won" and such it told me) that in China, they sell salted, fried humps of newspaper with some chicken flavor added as snacks.

I ate a live squirrel for breakfast.

The Grand Rapids Press is barely fit to read, let alone eat.

Squirrels are best electrocuted first - it improves the taste of the fur I believe.

Having returned now from a bout of extended eating over Christmas and the New year (and last year come to that), I've decided to go on a Dinosaur Diet.

A Dinosaur diet, in case you don't know, is where you eat birds, they having evolved form the larger earlier Dinosaur variants.

Not live though.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

If there's one favour I could ask of you, it's this - please, please take anything you read in science reporting in newspapers with a pinch of salt.

Absolutely not! Salt is bad for you. I read that in a newspaper recently.

That's no way to speak of the salt of the earth.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Yeah, raw meat is full of bacteria you don't really want to insert into your body. I guess that might not be an issue if you eat it directly after you caught it or something, but can humans really do much besides scavenge for meat without tools?

Cooking meat precedes modern humans.

It would certainly make sense. Cooking meat makes it usable for much longer periods of time, ergo those who'd be able to process cooked meat better would have a competitive advantage, much like how our more recent ancestors thrived thanks to milk.

From what I have read, drinking (cows) milk was not easy for our ancestors & was only through necessity. Many were so allergic to it, it was probably fatal. Some human races now still have dubious lactose tolerance.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

Nuts?

Are you saying it's crazy or that people attempting a raw vegetarian diet should eat a lot of nuts?

I was just thinking about nuts in general. There seem to be quite a few around.

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

From what I have read, drinking (cows) milk was not easy for our ancestors & was only through necessity. Many were so allergic to it, it was probably fatal. Some human races now still have dubious lactose tolerance.

Perhaps they started out of necessity, but it wasn't so long ago that someone linked to an article that said the ancestors of the Europeans came from the Middle East with their cows and thus outcompeted the native population that had migrated here a little while before.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

From what I have read, drinking (cows) milk was not easy for our ancestors & was only through necessity. Many were so allergic to it, it was probably fatal. Some human races now still have dubious lactose tolerance.

Perhaps they started out of necessity, but it wasn't so long ago that someone linked to an article that said the ancestors of the Europeans came from the Middle East with their cows and thus outcompeted the native population that had migrated here a little while before.

They had competitive cows?

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

They had competitive cows?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowes_Week

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

Originally posted by OperaBloke:

They had competitive cows?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowes_Week

Hmmm ... more like a cock & bull story if you ask me.

If anyone's interested here's a quick breakdown of the nutritional differences cow's milk and soy milk. Both have nutritional advantages and disadvantages.

Soy, less calories and cholesterol, but no vitamin D and little A, and a lot more copper ( One early sign of osteoporosis is a deficiency in copper.) Cow's more protein (but as pointed out above, it might not be needed), a lot more calcium (but less than 12% of magnesium needed to use all that calcium) and "Each cup of whole cow's milk has the cholesterol equivalent of 17 slices of bacon. Clogged arteries, anyone?"

www.notmilk.com

Originally posted by string:

Squirrels are best electrocuted first - it improves the taste of the fur I believe.

Having returned now from a bout of extended eating over Christmas and the New year (and last year come to that), I've decided to go on a Dinosaur Diet.

A Dinosaur diet, in case you don't know, is where you eat birds, they having evolved form the larger earlier Dinosaur variants.

Not live though.

New Evidence Suggests Noah's Sons Rode Flying Dinosaurs CREATION SCIENCE BREAKING NEWS For years, Creation Scientists have disputed how Noah was able to quickly collect millions of indigenous animals from remote, inaccessible regions of the world for a 40-day ride in his ark. New evidence from an archeological find in China supports the long held Christian belief that Noah's sons rode giant flying dinosaurs to transport duck billed platypuses from Australia, and penguins and polar bears from the Antarctic, to name a few. "Those must have been some mighty big flying dinosaurs," says Pastor Deacon Fred. "Imagine the look on Noah's face when his sons flew in for a landing with a pair of Hippos strapped to the back of one of them things! Glory to God!"
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0605/flyingdinos.html

That will appeal to Rj, who wants to take up arms in the Southern cause.

God bless the darkness!

Careful, don't let the real Christians see that. They might fly with it.

Originally posted by pincopallino:

www.notmilk.com

As you know, I get all my health and nutrition advice from Alicia Silverstone:

Originally posted by http://www.notmilk.com/sstone.html:

Alicia was asked what happened to her body when she stopped consuming milk and dairy products.

"My skin became, like, completely glowy. I lost all this weight. I started pooping right."

Case closed!

Detox From Milk: Seven Days Can you maintain this most important change in your life for just seven days? That is your challenge and goal, for during that seven day period of abstaining from all milk and dairy, one gallon of mucus will be expelled from your kidneys, spleen, pancreas, and other internal organs. If you still eat cheese, ice cream, milk chocolate, and yogurt, your one-week experience will be as if an internal fog has been dispersed from inside of you. Most people successfully weaning themselves from all milk and dairy products immediately observe dramatic physical and emotional changes. Better sleep, more energy, fewer mood swings, more sexual energy. Just seven days to a new you.

The 'more sexual energy' part won me over. I now use beer on my morning cereal.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

I started pooping right."

Case closed!

Indeed, the case is closed. just discovered that I was pooping all the wrong way this whole time. You don't wanna know...

People who stop eating chocolate and ice cream become healthier? Who would have thought it?

Also, if you have mucus coming out of your kidneys, I'd get yourself to a hospital.