U.S. Military in Europe: Time to go Home

U.S. Military in Europe: Time to go Home

The U.S. still deploys roughly 25,000 military personnel in Europe. Isn't it time for them to go home?
What possible advantage does their presence provide to the host countries?

Can someone give me at least one coherent reason why they ought to remain.

I only buy American produced carrots.

Yes, string but the amount of influence in loans/financial matters/loans, and taking over US companies is big stuff you must remember?

i see a lot of 1st world countries that are very balanced.

Hope you catch up with them soon?

never.

Originally posted by Virusboy:

Pain...
Agony....
My hatred burns through the cavernous deeps. The world heaves with my torment. Its wretched kingdoms quake beneath my rage...
But at last...
The whole of Azeroth will break...
...And all will burn beneath the shadow of my wings...

Have you tried an antacid product?

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

The U.S. still deploys roughly 25,000 military personnel in Europe. Isn't it time for them to go home?
What possible advantage does their presence provide to the host countries?

Can someone give me at least one coherent reason why they ought to remain.

Perhaps it's the same reason Chicago is using to welcome the NATO and G-8 summits. It is hoped that perhaps they will bring business that offsets the extravagant cost of putting on these shows. Hard to see how, though. Business downtown will be brought to a standstill, if not by the Secret Service then by the protesters. By comparison, hosting a foreign military base would be an improvement. I can't imagine UK troops based in the North suburbs would cause as much trouble as these summits will. It's hard to imagine Taliban troops causing as much trouble as these summits, now that I think of it.

Oh, you don't want to catch up with the normal 1st world VirusBoy? Dear me get to the antacid tin boy! If hate burns deep get out for some exercise.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Originally posted by Virusboy:

Pain...
Agony....
My hatred burns through the cavernous deeps. The world heaves with my torment. Its wretched kingdoms quake beneath my rage...
But at last...
The whole of Azeroth will break...
...And all will burn beneath the shadow of my wings...

Have you tried an antacid product?

no i tried an 85 protection paladin, works much better.

Stomping the world spending billions of dollares invading people and dominating whilst heading for bankruptcy will ad to the headaches?! Bring them home and spend more on the people who live within your borders for a change?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Stomping the world spending billions of dollares invading people and dominating whilst heading for bankruptcy will ad to the headaches?! Bring them home and spend more on the people who live within your borders for a change?

RJ, I have to ask: Are you sure??? Ending sentences with question marks makes me think maybe you're not sure. Question marks can be dynamite. If you say to me "You sure are an intelligent man.", that is a compliment and I thank you very much. If, on the other hand, you say "You sure are an intelligent man?" that means you're not sure I'm intelligent. That is an insult.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

RJ, I have to ask: Are you sure??? Ending sentences with question marks makes me think maybe you're not sure. Question marks can be dynamite. If you say to me "You sure are an intelligent man.", that is a compliment and I thank you very much. If, on the other hand, you say "You sure are an intelligent man?" that means you're not sure I'm intelligent. That is an insult.

It's a typing problem, Mj, nothing more.

Leaving aside the satirical ploys of the recalciant armchair dweller "up north" mjsmsprt, I am suggesting that you folk should be changing direction military-wise and spend more of the wasted money bankrupting yourself being an empire the world doesn't appreciate. Hence the question mark if is a problem for you? (!) Oh, and I wouldn't go out of my way to make a point of insulting you as you have enough problems being in Illinois without that (? )

You've redefined 'empire', Sir?

I think we ought to cut military spending drastically, but empire is a stretch.

This means that the United States has troops in 70 percent of the world's countries. The average American could probably not locate half of these 135 countries on a map.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance8.html

That's the atrocity that needs changing.

It won't happen in my lifetime, though.

Well Jaybro considering the width of military involvement which backs up American political and influence stances it is empirical.

Obviously not in a having colonies in practice but a different type of wanting control over everyone else. The country is in the business of extending the corporate interests and has the military to back it up. If you don't succumb to US economic pressure or commercialism sure as fate there will be a damn excuse to ostracise the country being aimed at and underminded or invaded. Why do you think America has such a big military budget and troops everywhere?

It isn't even the usual fear they plonk into American minds it is more than that. There is utterly no good reason for such a big budget nor such a military presence. However you are right in that nothing will change in a lifetime as the military and corporate partners run the country not the people. That may well have been the case once but not now. They are both deeply entrenched and will not be shifted easily. Indeed the way things are it would only end if the nation collapsed and no-one in their right ind would want that. Might as well shift out the Betway and have the capital of the USA shared in the Pentagon and Wall Street by all practical accounts? But apart from that the military empire followed by big business will continue to manage a political/economic empire beacise the eye has been taken off the ball internally and too many haven't realised it yet. As the late Dr Goebells said "tell the same lies often enough and they will be believed". If even a nation was disgracefully conned out of it's decency and reasonable patriotism it is the "leader of the Free World".

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Well Jaybro considering the width of military involvement which backs up American political and influence stances it is empirical.

Obviously not in a having colonies in practice but a different type of wanting control over everyone else. The country is in the business of extending the corporate interests and has the military to back it up. Anything specific? GM was bailed out to the tune of $8 billion. The military wasn't used, thankfully. If you don't succumb to US economic pressure or commercialism sure as fate there will be a damn excuse to ostracise the country being aimed at and underminded or invaded. Once again, a couple of examples would help, particularly cases where invasions ensued because of commercial interests. Why do you think America has such a big military budget and troops everywhere? Bad habits die, Oh, so slowly. Our silly involvement in Europe's affairs in WWII got the ball rolling. The USSR and your Lancaster bombers would have put Herr Hitler to rest nicely.

At any rate, who would know more about empire than...well, you know.

It isn't even the usual fear they plonk into American minds it is more than that. There is utterly no good reason for such a big budget nor such a military presence. However you are right in that nothing will change in a lifetime as the military and corporate partners run the country not the people.

The countries in Europe where US soldiers are stationed are allies of USA. I see no reason why they should be withdrawn.

Originally posted by beiren:

The countries in Europe where US soldiers are stationed are allies of USA. I see no reason why they should be withdrawn.

When we have German troops stationed here, I'll agree with you.

And while we're on the subject of U.S. military deployments....






If you'd like to pick up the costs, I'm ok with troop vacations in Deutschland.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

If you'd like to pick up the costs, I'm ok with troop vacations in Deutschland.

Na na, you are not doing the right calculations.
Isn't much more affordable for you having them in holidays all over the world than having them to "work" at Iraq or Afghanistan? That's what the graph shows..

Allies eh beiren? The USA has been constantly creating conflicts to feed it's army industry and Pentagon beasts. Every single war has resulted in the aftermath being yet another US military base or groupf of bases. Some 100 countries and 700 places have some sort of US military presence. It is a global military empire and it is not need neither by the world nor the American people. However they have long been fed a warped propaganda and fear that they need bases just about everywhere for "security". You are bordering on the naive as well beiren. The country is in economic dire straits and this President has just been like all the rest in keeping the appetite for military excuses. The American people deserve better. Bring the troops home shut the bases and with the money saved do somehting for the tens of millions struggling in America.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Allies eh beiren? The USA has been constantly creating conflicts to feed it's army industry and Pentagon beasts. Every single war has resulted in the aftermath being yet another US military base or groupf of bases. Some 100 countries and 700 places have some sort of US military presence. It is a global military empire and it is not need neither by the world nor the American people. However they have long been fed a warped propaganda and fear that they need bases just about everywhere for "security". You are bordering on the naive as well beiren. The country is in economic dire straits and this President has just been like all the rest in keeping the appetite for military excuses. The American people deserve better. Bring the troops home shut the bases and with the money saved do somehting for the tens of millions struggling in America.

Absolutely!

I still insist that our WWII involvement in Europe was the start of our undoing.

I wouldn't be so quick to focus on Obama, however. We're a bloodthirsty people.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

When we have German troops stationed here, I'll agree with you.
And while we're on the subject of U.S. military deployments....
If you'd like to pick up the costs, I'm ok with troop vacations in Deutschland.

Debts and militry costs of USA are not my burden. Unless your allied countries address a wish that troops should be withdrawn, I don't see why they should.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Allies eh beiren? The USA has been constantly creating conflicts to feed it's army industry and Pentagon beasts. Every single war has resulted in the aftermath being yet another US military base or groupf of bases. Some 100 countries and 700 places have some sort of US military presence. It is a global military empire and it is not need neither by the world nor the American people. However they have long been fed a warped propaganda and fear that they need bases just about everywhere for "security". You are bordering on the naive as well beiren. The country is in economic dire straits and this President has just been like all the rest in keeping the appetite for military excuses. The American people deserve better. Bring the troops home shut the bases and with the money saved do somehting for the tens of millions struggling in America.

Yup, European countries where USA has stationed troops are their allies. Rest I agree with you, but I don't give a damn about tens of millions of Americans living on foodstamps without access to health care. It is true that collapse of US economy will be a bad thing for global economy, but ultimately even that is transient. Collapse will in fact spur a black swan event, so stressing about it is vain. On the other hand I don't really believe US economy will collapse in my lifetime.

You are still very naive. It is not just in Europe you have US military dumped on you. It is pressure that produces these bases. If the US cannot subjugate you to their economic commericalism then it will start picking on you and start a conflict and use security and freedom as an excuse. You just need to look at the internal history of America and see that freedom, democracy and such have been a joke. Tell me why America needs to be in 100 countries? in most cases the poor subjugated have been pressurised into US soliders foisted on them.

You say that US financial strain due to the military that runs the US is not your problem but happy to see them run a miltary empire around the world? The USA is not a proper democracy in the first place and has a veneer of democracy.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

You are still very naive. It is not just in Europe you have US military dumped on you. It is pressure that produces these bases. If the US cannot subjugate you to their economic commericalism then it will start picking on you and start a conflict and use security and freedom as an excuse. You just need to look at the internal history of America and see that freedom, democracy and such have been a joke. Tell me why America needs to be in 100 countries? in most cases the poor subjugated have been pressurised into US soliders foisted on them.

You say that US financial strain due to the military that runs the US is not your problem but happy to see them run a miltary empire around the world? The USA is not a proper democracy in the first place and has a veneer of democracy.

Question was about US military in Europe right now, which I don't have a problem with. I do not approve Americans performing violent coups, assassinations of civilians, direct military assaults, spying and forced occupations in sovereign countries seemingly every other year, but that is wholly another topic.

Well it should get out of Europe too. The USSR is long gone as is the Warsaw Pact. It is still part of America being run by the military (along with the banking lot) and their wish to be control freaks. So i don't see why Europe should be any different from the 100 odd counttriesd it is sticking it's military nose in. Remember - as it has repeatedly came up here that America spends half the whole world's military budget for what point apart from self-agrandisment. People can suffer in the tens of millions at home but yeah let's keep planting bases. Pointless and out of date.

Couldn't have said it better, sir, but wondering what stake the bankers have in military bases.

Well it is the bank mob and military who really run the nation. The more bases the more wars and invasions then equally the greater the need for military hardware. Every extension means business for the moneymen who produce the weaponry and allied stuff to go with it.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Well it is the bank mob and military who really run the nation.

Can you briefly explain how this conspiracy works? If you must go into detail, that's ok, too.

This is the first I've heard of this. Sounds like there's not much I can do about it, but I'm interested nonetheless.

I really think RJH has joined Katsung, and both are posting from their secret hide-out-- in this room!

Firstly iy is not a conspiracy it is fact. Consider the amount of money moved about in the financial system and misused and the fraud that went along with it. The poercentage of who economically run the place has de lined from over 20% to only 1%. Millions of americans lose their homes, jobs, cannot afford health and suffer for their loyalty. Meanwhile at the same time the monied lit increase their wealth and the gap is the sidest in history. So many of the corproates who fleechg the system and the economy never mind public money get away with it whilst those millions suffer.

Likewise a giant military which is obscene and a nonsense. Bases everywhere, wars created to justify the miltary because again the corporate are making millions in producing all the stuff the military machine needs for bullying the world. Americans are so generally iugnorant of the world in general and belive the snippets they do get from the media again ran by a controlledf corporate media. In the Iran matter Americans afre being geared up by the misuse of intelligence - as in the fiasco that was Iraq. Even the Mossad and CIA lots have indicated that there is no evidence Iran wants the bomb. However you listen to the average Yank interviewed and they parrot the lies being put out on Iran.

You folk over there are so n aive and to shunt me into Katsung's corner only emphises that ignorance of the average Joe. So the military with their bussines associates and brilliant Hill lobby along with the bakers run America, manipulate a naive people who as i point out know little about the world. That your stupid politicians (again all comfortable off)supported by the Corporate backers speaks for itself. They will give you guff about Iran and any other place wanted to be set for atatcking. You will never learn. Tell me where i am wrong about money and military controlling America and stomping the world making wars to justify both? Give me the proof that iran is wanting never mind making a bomb. You cannot but instead fall back on satire, ignorance and lack of knowledge apart from what is fed to you b y your media. Elections are a farce and there to give you some cosmetic feeling of democracy. It's s damn sham and the military and banking muscle arew the powers. You are all too daft to see it.

Slag me off if you will but you are living in a cuckoo world. It is systematic of that US arrogance that it is the democratic torch of the world. Your own internal history says something else. Even today your so-called freedoms are continually being restricted. Public protests lead to police heavy handed attitudes that would be a delight in many Third World part democracies. And in tandem with that using any law possible to deny people the freedom of assembly. The world sees this and shows as i have always stated long before Katsung appeared here that America is the biggest warmonger, indepth utter hypocrisyin the natters of freedom and rights not just in thworld but inside it's own borders. So try and neautralise me by shoving me into Katsung's corner but he raises some things that are right but you lot don't like hearing it.

Now folks wait for more juvenile dross in lieu of knowledge - it's easier!

Once again, where are you getting this information?

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Well it is the bank mob and military who really run the nation.

Can you briefly explain how this conspiracy works? If you must go into detail, that's ok, too.

This is the first I've heard of this. Sounds like there's not much I can do about it, but I'm interested nonetheless.

I refer to the above.

Originally posted by jbrothernew37:
Originally posted by rjhowie:
Well it is the bank mob and military who really run the nation.


Can you briefly explain how this conspiracy works? If you must go into detail, that's ok, too.

This is the first I've heard of this. Sounds like there's not much I can do about it, but I'm interested nonetheless.

I refer to the above.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Perhaps it's the same reason Chicago is using to welcome the NATO and G-8 summits. It is hoped that perhaps they will bring business that offsets the extravagant cost of putting on these shows. Hard to see how, though. Business downtown will be brought to a standstill, if not by the Secret Service then by the protesters. By comparison, hosting a foreign military base would be an improvement. I can't imagine UK troops based in the North suburbs would cause as much trouble as these summits will. It's hard to imagine Taliban troops causing as much trouble as these summits, now that I think of it.

I thought they held these events in island resorts and mountain refuges these days, you know, Easter Island, Tora Bora, the Namib and Gobi deserts, or Detroit, not in the middle of a crowded city. If it was in the middle of the January, when nobody in their right mind would go out in the Chicago streets, then it might be different.

Tell me where i am wrong about money and military controlling America and stomping the world making wars to justify both? Give me the proof that iran is wanting never mind making a bomb. You cannot but instead fall back on satire, ignorance and lack of knowledge apart from what is fed to you b y your media. Elections are a farce and there to give you some cosmetic feeling of democracy. It's s damn sham and the military and banking muscle arew the powers. You are all too daft to see it.

Tell me where you are right. I'd like to understand...help me out.

'US, Israel agree Iran abandoned nuclear bomb' US and Israeli intelligence agencies mostly agree that Iran has not restarted its development of a nuclear bomb, the New York Times reported on Saturday. According to the report, the assessment among top US officials is that Iran has not yet decided to pursue a nuclear weapon, a conclusion which was established based on intelligence analyses.

But AP notes: [Defense Intelligence Agency chief Lt. Gen. Ronald] Burgess tells senators Iran is unlikely to initiate or intentionally provoke a conflict. [Director of National Intelligence James] Clapper says it’s “technically feasible” that Tehran could produce a nuclear weapon in one or two years, if its leaders decide to build one, “but practically not likely.” Indeed, Iran has not attacked another country in hundreds of years. (In the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq was the initial aggressor.) Moreover, American, Israeli and European leaders all say that Iran has not even decided whether or not to build a nuclear bomb. And – as the Christian Science Monitor notes – even if Iran did build a bomb – it probably wouldn’t pose much of a danger: Shrill warnings of war or imminent apocalypse over Iran’s nuclear program have never been so strident, or so ominous. A window is closing fast, the narrative goes, to prevent a fanatical and suicidal religious regime from acquiring the ultimate tools of Armageddon: nuclear weapons. Within months, some politicians claim, either Israel, the United States, or both may have no choice but to attack Iran to remove this “existential threat” to the Jewish state. The world is facing another Hitler, declares Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and this moment of decision is akin to the eve of World War II. Iran is a threat to Israel and “a real danger to humanity as a whole,” warns Israeli President Shimon Peres. The tone on the US presidential campaign trail is no less dire. *** In fact, say analysts and nonproliferation experts who have studied the effect of the bomb on countries, coexisting with a nuclear-armed Iran – or at least a nuclear-capable Iran – may well be possible, even inevitable, whether a military strike delays that outcome or not. Analysts say Iran is not an irrational, suicidal actor that can’t be deterred. Nor do they believe it is determined to destroy Israel at all costs. A recent Israeli think tank simulation of “the day after” an Iranian nuclear test came to the same conclusion: that nuclear annihilation will not automatically result.

I'm waiting, Rj, I'm waiting.
.....

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Well it is the bank mob and military who really run the nation. The more bases the more wars and invasions then equally the greater the need for military hardware. Every extension means business for the moneymen who produce the weaponry and allied stuff to go with it.

And you know this...how? You're mining information and not telling us where the mine is located. Just tell me where you got your info.

Wondering who runs Scotland.

Ah, Jaybro. All those years of teacher training stay with you, even in retirement. Encourage the backward child, pretend to take his ramblings seriously. Encourage his feeling of self-worth. Gently suggest ways he might improve, but never really expect it.
It's sometimes not easy when the child is resolutely mean-spirited.

Sadly, this is one case for which I have no hope. Extreme retardation...well, you know.

From "Dumb & Dumber":

Harry: So you got fired again, eh?

Lloyd: Oh yeah. They always freak out when you leave the scene of an accident, you know?

Harry: Yeah, well, I lost my job too.

Lloyd: Man, you are one pathetic loser. No offense.

Harry: No, none taken. You know what really chaps my ass though? I spent my life savings turning my van into a dog. The alarm alone cost me two hundred.

Lloyd: Hey, chicks love it. It's a shaggin' wagon.

Now we are getting pedantic. Millions losing homes and health. Fraud in the mortgage industry and s on. ver a hundred countries with military involvement. The number of financial control barons now down to 1%. The money men get away with just about anything but not to Joes at the bottom or even now the middle. Half the world's miltary expenditure. I don't want to have tio repeat what I said in another thread here too. You know fine well Jaybro what the situation is. To be fair, i can understand anyone of intelligence trying to stick up for their corner or in this case their country but you are exercising a faulted stance and boy what a neat side step! And much the same from tt92. The rest of the normal world here can see who runs America and gives you little savouries like elections to keep you happy. Even that system is a money machine. The fluff here shows you cannot cope with a direct look but hide behond cosmetic replies. Someone go back and re-chisel the word's on that arch-hyopcrite Lincoln's statue please. Now there is a typical home mean spirited man.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Well it should get out of Europe too. The USSR is long gone as is the Warsaw Pact. It is still part of America being run by the military (along with the banking lot) and their wish to be control freaks. So i don't see why Europe should be any different from the 100 odd counttriesd it is sticking it's military nose in. Remember - as it has repeatedly came up here that America spends half the whole world's military budget for what point apart from self-agrandisment. People can suffer in the tens of millions at home but yeah let's keep planting bases. Pointless and out of date.

USA is a tremendously powerful empire and it is a good idea to be on its sunny side, like NATO countries are. The countries outside NATO are then divided to other strategic allies like Japan & S-Korea. The last caste is occupied/oppressed nations like Afghanistan & few latin-American countries. You can't really compare Germany to Guatemala, so you should see why Europe is different.
Again, I don't give a damn about how US government decides to spend its money. You shouldn't stress about it either. I also can't understand what it has to do with topic.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

The money men get away with just about anything but not to Joes at the bottom or even now the middle. Half the world's miltary expenditure. I don't want to have tio repeat what I said in another thread here too. You know fine well Jaybro what the situation is. To be fair, i can understand anyone of intelligence trying to stick up for their corner or in this case their country but you are exercising a faulted stance and boy what a neat side step!

I'm one of those people in the middle, Rj, retired and doing just fine. Everybody I know is in the middle...neighbors, friends, relatives. None of them are even stressed, let alone on the verge.

I'll never support our goofy military deployments, though. Vietnam was a disaster, as was Korea, although it eventually came out economically with a smile. Now we're "protecting" it from the northern menace. It never ends!

Good to see that the UK has bailed out of Afghanistan. Hail Britannia!

Well beiren money is part of it because the USA is spending money it cannot afford to maintain scores of bases all over the damn world and whoare they to be so possessive? You neatly put aside the historicakl facts that it has supported a myriad of dictatorships simple because they were Rightist and not Felt. So double standards there on principles. I fear you have a rather elementary understanding of US policy to the rest of the globe. It pishes it's culture, it's commerce just about everywhere. When ot cannot win over a nation or find it is against it then mission creep follows trying to undermine or destabilise. If all else fails expect a war on some pretext.You might have a vague rosy image but it doesn't fit the real picture at all. It's history has been one of double standards moral two-facedness and misusing it's own decent people.

Well I am glad Jaybro that you are in the middle. With a lifetime of service to others you deserve a wee bit of having a chuffed time. You are spot on regarding those military fiascos and am I glad that our Prime Minister, Harold Wilson (didnae vote furr him ye ken) refused to be part of the S. Vietnam disaster. Well your service gives you the opportunity to be in a good neighbourhood which you obviously are if they are all in the middle too! We got kind of tired of Afghanistan and as you say, getting out.Must be nice to be able to relax in a nice place and even though sighing at the nonsenses and world messes know you are not in Detroit! As for moi, I live in a nice place too and there are no houses across the road just a golf course and all that space and greenery. I am now raising my glass of (diet) Irn Bru to the relaxed man of Grand Rapids.

From Brittania's right hand man in the down-to-earth-city.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Well beiren money is part of it because the USA is spending money it cannot afford to maintain scores of bases all over the damn world and whoare they to be so possessive? You neatly put aside the historicakl facts that it has supported a myriad of dictatorships simple because they were Rightist and not Felt. So double standards there on principles. I fear you have a rather elementary understanding of US policy to the rest of the globe. It pishes it's culture, it's commerce just about everywhere. When ot cannot win over a nation or find it is against it then mission creep follows trying to undermine or destabilise. If all else fails expect a war on some pretext.You might have a vague rosy image but it doesn't fit the real picture at all. It's history has been one of double standards moral two-facedness and misusing it's own decent people.

I'm quite aware of USA's sheneinigans across the globe and like I said, I do not approve of them. I don't like to repeat myself, but the topic is about US military in Europe. I'm aware that USA has backstabbed its allies at least twice in history, but as long as they continue to be paranoid about Russia, they can't afford to backstab its European friends. Doing so would mean instant dismantling of NATO and most likely strong alignment shift towards Russia or a quick creation of independent European defense organisation, which possibly would include Russia. USA is already on thin ice when it comes to popular support in EU & NATO countries, diplomacy is carried pragmatically as ever - stick to the guy with biggest guns and most money. There was a time not too long ago when USA was admired, nowadays finding one educated person who genuinely thinks USA's military actions & domestic politics are enviable is mission impossible. Their foreign ministry is quite aware of this (see: Wikileaks diplomatic cable briefings for US diplomats to/in Europe). So, treating European NATO partners like Panama is not going to happen.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Well beiren money is part of it because the USA is spending money it cannot afford to maintain scores of bases all over the damn world and whoare they to be so possessive?

Strange world, ain't it? If we ever go to war with China, they'll have to finance it!


Stranger yet is the possibility that if it weren't for Russia, you and I might be speaking with a German accent.

Originally posted by beiren:

There was a time not too long ago when USA was admired, nowadays finding one educated person who genuinely thinks USA's military actions & domestic politics are enviable is mission impossible. Their foreign ministry is quite aware of this (see: Wikileaks diplomatic cable briefings for US diplomats to/in Europe). So, treating European NATO partners like Panama is not going to happen.

One doesn't have to be educated to think that...Dumb and Dumber works just fine. Let me suggest, though, that popularity polling in the ranking of nations is nonsense. Whatever could it possibly mean?

Monaco, then?

We don't have a foreign ministry.

NATO? There is no reason for the U.S. to be in NATO. Heraus!

Thanks. You're still proving my point!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Thanks. You're still proving my point!

No I'm not and never have. I just explained why Europe is different from Americas.

And thank goodness Europe is.

Just ran into a very telling...and disturbing word.

Vietghanistan

I think I'm going to be sick!

Where's SmileyRage when I need him?