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Minimise to Tray Behaviour
It seems as though the "Exit to Tray" option in Opera is still a "hidden" one - if you set opera:config#UserPrefs|ShowExitDialog to 2 then clicking the exit button will not close Opera but will leave the icon in the system tray - only a right click on the system tray will allow you to close Opera properly. I like this functionality, but I think it could be implemented better. Here are three problems and suggestions:1) When you minimise Opera, the "Working Set" memory usage reduces, as is normal for applications. However, when Opera has been sent to the system tray, this does not happen. It is possible to minimise normally, then right click on the task bar and choose "close" - then opera is sent to the tray but with the reduced memory usage of a minimised application. However, double clicking the tray then only restores the minimised application, requiring then a second click on the task bar icon to restore it. Suggested alternate behaviour: when you "exit" Opera it should behave as if minimised but simply not appear on the task bar. When the tray icon is double clicked, the Opera window should be restored no matter how it was closed. Also, there should be the option for the minimise button to minimise to the tray - so Opera is never the task bar unless the Window is visible.
2) If Explorer crashes and reloads and Opera had previously been sent to the tray, the Opera icon does not appear. There is no way to exit Opera now, except by killing the task. You can make Opera reappear by running it again from as shortcut, because the request to load a second instance of Opera is intercepted and the current session is shown instead, but without the tray icon it is impossible to exit. Suggested alternate behaviour: the icon should reload on an Explorer crash. Also, it should be possible to exit Opera from the Opera Menu->Exit; only the top right window button(s) should minimise to the tray.
3) If you install Process Explorer (an excellent Task Manager replacement), then there is the option for any process with a window to be brought to the front, minimised, maximised, restored or closed. If the process does not have an associated window, then these options are unavailable. If Opera has been sent to the tray, then these options are unavailable. Suggested alternate behaviour: Opera should always have a Window associated with it, even when minimised to the tray.
I hope that this makes sense - I'll be happy to clarify if not.
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Originally posted by Hopk1ns:
It seems as though the "Exit to Tray" option in Opera is still a "hidden" one
By "hidden" I'm guessing you mean (at least in part) "undocumented", as I wasn't able to find any documentation for ShowExitDialog = 2.
I have never used this setting, and I don't really use the Minimize to System Tray option (Shift+Ctrl+Alt+H), but I did just experiment with it some to see what your were talking about.
Originally posted by Hopk1ns:
1) When you minimise Opera, the "Working Set" memory usage reduces, as is normal for applications. However, when Opera has been sent to the system tray, this does not happen.
If I understand correctly, this is also what Pesala described in this post. Vectronic's post regarding the System Tray and "GarbageCollection and Resource Disposal/Dumping" at the end of the same thread may be relevant to what you're wanting.
Originally posted by Hopk1ns:
You didn't mention what Windows version you're using, but in WinXP this exact behavior is typical with many applications after Explorer crashes, so it *may* not be an Opera issue.2) If Explorer crashes and reloads and Opera had previously been sent to the tray, the Opera icon does not appear. There is no way to exit Opera now, except by killing the task. ... Suggested alternate behaviour: the icon should reload on an Explorer crash.
Getting clear information on this is not easy, however, as there are any number of disappearing system tray icon issues across a wide range of applications, with a wide variety of symptoms (sometimes seemingly random, sometime persistent, sometimes easily resolved by logging out and logging in or rebooting, sometimes not). And while I'm on WinXP, a quick Google check suggests similar problems with Vista and even some with Win7. But AFAICT, most of these do not involve the simple icon disappearance after an Explorer crash that is nearly always easily resolved by simply killing and restarting the application process. So in any case, as frustrating as it is to have to kill and restart a process, I guess it is far preferable to logging out and back in or rebooting, either of which requires closing down all my work and reopening it all again.
My own (very non-systematic) impression is that some System Tray application seem more "resilient" than others when Explorer crashes (i.e., more likely to have their icons reload after Explorer restarts). It seems there are some that I don't recall ever having to perform any extra maneuvers to get them to reappear. (I'd like to be more specific, but since they don't give me a problem I haven't paid as much attention to which ones they are.) On the other hand, the WinXP Task Manager icon will nearly always fail to reload (necessitating a taskmgr.exe process kill and Task Manger restart). The Volume control icon and Safely Remove Hardware icon also frequently fail to reload. So if there is any validity (?) to my impression that some System Tray icons are more likely to reload, perhaps there would be a programmatic way to improve Opera's icon-reload "resilience."
Originally posted by Hopk1ns:
Are you saying that Opera Menu->Exit does not fully Exit in your ShowExitDialog = 2 setup? If so, I would say that is definitely unexpected. (Every program I know of that minimizes to the System Tray from the red X still Exits fully with Menu>Exit (or Alt+F>x) (and Alt+F4 as well).Also, it should be possible to exit Opera from the Opera Menu->Exit; only the top right window button(s) should minimise to the tray.
Originally posted by Hopk1ns:
I assume you're referring to the right-click context menu for each process listed in Process Explorer, and are seeing a grayed-out Window option on the opera.exe process context menu when Opera is minimized to the tray. What proportion of the other programs residing in your System Tray also have that option grayed out? In my experience it's about 50/50 whether programs minimized to the System Tray will have those context menu options available (or grayed out) in Process Explorer.3) If you install Process Explorer (an excellent Task Manager replacement), then there is the option for any process with a window to be brought to the front, minimised, maximised, restored or closed. If the process does not have an associated window, then these options are unavailable. If Opera has been sent to the tray, then these options are unavailable. Suggested alternate behaviour: Opera should always have a Window associated with it, even when minimised to the tray.
Even if the context menu options are grayed out, the "Bring to Front" option can be accessed from the Image tab of the process Properties popup window (via the same context menu, or simply double-click the process). And IIRC, even those that normally can be brought to the Front with Process Explorer (e.g., Windows Task Manager) cannot be brought to the front after their icon disappears in an Explorer crash, even though they are still running. (Instead, a Process Explorer Warning, No visible windows found for this process pops up.)
Having said all that, it seems that there is a way for programs to retain their associated "visible window" even when minimized to the System Tray, since maybe 40-60% of the programs I have used do so. So I would think your third suggestion may be viable.
Finally, you obviously put some time and thought into your suggestions, and they would probably fit better (and may get more attention, and perhaps more traction) in the Desktop wish-list forum.
Pesala, yes, there are other apps which behave pretty much the way I want Opera to behave, so apparently it can be done.
Originally posted by gdveggie:
Originally posted by Hopk1ns:
It seems as though the "Exit to Tray" option in Opera is still a "hidden" one
By "hidden" I'm guessing you mean (at least in part) "undocumented", as I wasn't able to find any documentation for ShowExitDialog = 2.
Yes, I meant undocumented. I wrote "hidden", thought "that's not right" but then forgot to revise it later!
Originally posted by gdveggie:
Originally posted by Hopk1ns:
1) When you minimise Opera, the "Working Set" memory usage reduces, as is normal for applications. However, when Opera has been sent to the system tray, this does not happen.
If I understand correctly, this is also what Pesala described in this post. Vectronic's post regarding the System Tray and "GarbageCollection and Resource Disposal/Dumping" at the end of the same thread may be relevant to what you're wanting.
Thanks for the links. I hadn't done much reading about this, to be honest, but it seems as though I should have. From what I have just read, the "working set" value seems to indicate how much physical memory is reserved for the application and will not be sent to the swap file. If I understand correctly now, then the OS assumes that a minimised application is less likely to be in "active" use and so allows more of its required memory to be moved into the swap file.
Regardless, I still think that an application should behave as if minimised when sent to the system tray.
Originally posted by gdveggie:
Originally posted by Hopk1ns:
You didn't mention what Windows version you're using, but in WinXP this exact behavior is typical with many applications after Explorer crashes, so it *may* not be an Opera issue.2) If Explorer crashes and reloads and Opera had previously been sent to the tray, the Opera icon does not appear. There is no way to exit Opera now, except by killing the task. ... Suggested alternate behaviour: the icon should reload on an Explorer crash.
I am using WinXP. However, other applications will somehow retain their system tray icon after an explorer crash, so I suspect it would be possible for Opera to do this too.
Originally posted by gdveggie:
the simple icon disappearance after an Explorer crash that is nearly always easily resolved by simply killing and restarting the application process. So in any case, as frustrating as it is to have to kill and restart a process, I guess it is far preferable to logging out and back in or rebooting, either of which requires closing down all my work and reopening it all again.
Agreed, that is the best work around for now, but I still believe it is a situation which the Opera team should improve.
Originally posted by gdveggie:
Originally posted by Hopk1ns:
Are you saying that Opera Menu->Exit does not fully Exit in your ShowExitDialog = 2 setup? If so, I would say that is definitely unexpected. (Every program I know of that minimizes to the System Tray from the red X still Exits fully with Menu>Exit (or Alt+F>x) (and Alt+F4 as well).Also, it should be possible to exit Opera from the Opera Menu->Exit; only the top right window button(s) should minimise to the tray.
Yes, that is what happens and, as you say, virtually all other applications make sure that the File->Exit option is a "true" exit, and only the window X icon is the minimise to tray feature! Actually, by the same token, Alt+F4 - which is a window command - should minimise to tray, but Alt->F->x - which goes via the application menu - should do a real exit. This behaviour I have also observed in other applications.
Originally posted by gdveggie:
Originally posted by Hopk1ns:
I assume you're referring to the right-click context menu for each process listed in Process Explorer, and are seeing a grayed-out Window option on the opera.exe process context menu when Opera is minimized to the tray. What proportion of the other programs residing in your System Tray also have that option grayed out? In my experience it's about 50/50 whether programs minimized to the System Tray will have those context menu options available (or grayed out) in Process Explorer.3) If you install Process Explorer (an excellent Task Manager replacement), then there is the option for any process with a window to be brought to the front, minimised, maximised, restored or closed. If the process does not have an associated window, then these options are unavailable. If Opera has been sent to the tray, then these options are unavailable. Suggested alternate behaviour: Opera should always have a Window associated with it, even when minimised to the tray.
It has seemed to me that it is less common that 50/50 for them to be greyed out and, to be honest, the only reason why I thought to check this option is to recover the Opera window after an Explorer crash which then results in the disappearing tray icon problem. So, if the first problem was solved then I cannot think of a use for this fix. However, since the only thing that seems to happen to a minimised to tray Opera application is that the window is made invisible, it would make sense to allow another program to yank it back into visibility!
Originally posted by gdveggie:
Even if the context menu options are grayed out, the "Bring to Front" option can be accessed from the Image tab of the process Properties popup window (via the same context menu, or simply double-click the process). And IIRC, even those that normally can be brought to the Front with Process Explorer (e.g., Windows Task Manager) cannot be brought to the front after their icon disappears in an Explorer crash, even though they are still running. (Instead, a Process Explorer Warning, No visible windows found for this process pops up.)
I just tested that, and the same message appears for a minimised to tray Opera process.
Originally posted by gdveggie:
Finally, you obviously put some time and thought into your suggestions, and they would probably fit better (and may get more attention, and perhaps more traction) in the Desktop wish-list forum.
Thanks, I see the thread has been moved. Sorry again for my late follow-up.