Opera Mail Not Always Deleting Mail From Hotmail Account

Opera Mail Not Always Deleting Mail From Hotmail Account

A few months ago I switched over to using Opera Mail for my hotmail account. Obviously it is POP. I set it up so that Opera will delete the messages on the server if I delete it in the Opera Mail client.

It's more of a minor annoyance, but I've noticed that the e-mail doesn't always get deleted from the server when I delete it from the Opera client. Sometimes it works perfectly, sometimes it doesn't. I'd guess that it works properly about half the time.

Normally I delete the e-mail (Shift+Del), and then use Check All (Ctrl+K) to delete the message from the hotmail server. When it works perfectly, I get the pop-up message almost immediately that there are no new messages, and the mail is deleted from the hotmail server.

When it doesn't work properly, I notice that the progress bar in the mail panel takes a very long time deleting the message(s), and it takes at least 30 seconds before I get the pop-up message that there are no new messages. When this happens the mail has not been deleted from the hotmail server. If I Check All a second time, I get the pop-up from Opera that no new messages are received almost immediately and it properly deletes the mail from the hotmail server. It always works properly the second time.

I haven't noticed any pattern as to why it works perfectly sometimes and not other times. I'm fairly new to using Opera Mail so I could be missing some obvious setting somewhere, but I don't think I am. I haven't set up any other mail accounts to see if other POP accounts have the same issue.

I'm using Win 7 x64. Currently I'm using the most recent Opera Next 12 build 1301, but I've noticed this issue in all snapshots and final releases I've used.

Originally posted by ugly95:

Normally I delete the e-mail (Shift+Del), and then use Check All (Ctrl+K) to delete the message from the hotmail server.

As soon as I started reading, I was going to mention that you have to check for new messages before you close down Opera if you close Opera before the next check interval. But, I see you already do that.

Originally posted by ugly95:

When it doesn't work properly, I notice that the progress bar in the mail panel takes a very long time deleting the message(s), and it takes at least 30 seconds before I get the pop-up message that there are no new messages. When this happens the mail has not been deleted from the hotmail server. If I Check All a second time, I get the pop-up from Opera that no new messages are received almost immediately and it properly deletes the mail from the hotmail server. It always works properly the second time.

low-bandwidth mode should cause and problems with this, but just in case, are you using it?

Either way, you could log the connection to see if it reveals the problem.

Originally posted by burnout426:

low-bandwidth mode should cause and problems with this, but just in case, are you using it?

I am not using low-bandwidth mode.

Either way, you could log the connection to see if it reveals the problem.

Thank you for the response. I'll set it up and see if I can figure anything out.

Okay, I've looked at some of the connection logs and tried to compare and see if there is any difference between successful deletions and unsuccessful deletions. Obviously, I'm not expert so I don't exactly know what to look for, but from what I can see is that it doesn't look like Opera is sending the delete command every time.

From what I can guess, the hotmail server sends in some type of number identifier for each message. In my case I have 858.

In one example of an unsuccessful deletion I get: '14/02-2012 13:03:02 POP IN:' then the list of 858 hexidecimal number identifiers. Every once in a while the list is broken up with a 'POP IN' line with the rest of the messages. In this example the last one is at '14/02-2012 13:03:03 POP IN', then displays the last part of 792 until the final message 858. Then nothing happens, and the only message is: '14/02-2012 13:04:04 POP IN: Disconnect'. So it looks like there is a minute where nothing happens and then hotmail disconnects.

Then I press CTRL+k again and it goes through the same process. In the final part of the list of 858 numbers the time of the command is: '14/02-2012 13:06:19 POP IN'. Then it sends:

14/02-2012 13:06:19 POP OUT: DELE 858


14/02-2012 13:06:20 POP IN: +OK message deleted


14/02-2012 13:06:20 POP OUT: QUIT


14/02-2012 13:06:20 POP IN: +OK mailbox updated, POP3 server signing off


14/02-2012 13:06:20 POP IN: Disconnect

So this time it sends a delete command immediately instead of nothing. And in cases where there is an unsuccessful deletion, it doesn't look like the mail client even sends out the QUIT command.

The only other thing that I noticed is that every time in all cases (successful deletion, unsuccessful deletions, or just receiving mail) I always get an error response to CAPA. Looks like CAPA is sent out first after connecting, and then again after sending the USER and password. In both cases I get:

14/02-2012 00:29:12 POP OUT: CAPA


14/02-2012 00:29:12 POP IN: -ERR unrecognized command

It doesn't seem to disrupt the process of receiving or deleting messages, but I thought I should mention it just in case.

Thanks for the description. Could you provide a full log for good measure though? (You can pm it to me via mail.opera.com if you want)

Also, did you try a standalone installation of Opera 11.61 (with "leave messages on server checked" an "until I permanently delete" checked) to see if it works fine there? If it does, try the same with the latest 12.

Originally posted by burnout426:

Also, did you try a standalone installation of Opera 11.61 (with "leave messages on server checked" an "until I permanently delete" checked) to see if it works fine there? If it does, try the same with the latest 12.

I tried using a standalone installation of both 11.61 and the latest 12 build (1306) leaving all settings default (except for removing check for message every #minutes) and still had the same issue.

I also sent a log to your @myopera account. I think I may have accidentally attached it twice, because I'm stupid.

Maybe I'll try to set up a POP account with someone other than hotmail to try and determine if the issue is only a hotmail issue.

Originally posted by ugly95:

I also sent a log to your @myopera account.

Thanks. Yeh, basically, it shows that it works sometimes and sometimes doesn't and that there's an error

Originally posted by ugly95:

I tried using a standalone installation of both 11.61 and the latest 12 build (1306) leaving all settings default (except for removing check for message every #minutes) and still had the same issue.

O.K.

Originally posted by ugly95:

Maybe I'll try to set up a POP account with someone other than hotmail to try and determine if the issue is only a hotmail issue.

And, just for good measure, create another hotmail account and try POP that. (You can ctrl + shift + n to open a private window so you don't have to log out of your current hotmail to try and create a new account etc.)

If you can reproduce in that hotmail account too, try to figure out how many messages you need to have and delete to reproduce the problem etc. I have a hotmail account, but need more info on how to reproduce the problem as everything works fine.

I tried using Opera Mail for POP access to my @myopera account, on a stand-alone installation, and get the same issue. My @myopera account is essentially untouched, I think it only has the default welcome e-mail stored. So, it seems that whatever issue I have isn't unique to hotmail accounts, or based on how many messages are stored in an account.

I suppose it could be something basic like a port issue but the only issue I have is deleting messages. I've never noticed any issue sending or receiving.

I tried installing Thunderbird, and tried it a few times and it seemed to delete consistently without issue. But that was a pretty small sample size. I also just sent a bunch of different test mails just now between my hotmail and @myopera account using Opera Mail and they all deleted without any issue. So it's possible that I got lucky when I tested with Thunderbird.

I guess I'll just keep testing and see if I notice something else. I'm certainly not going to switch to Thunderbird. Opera's interface is much better, I really like the new design. And the convenience of having the mail client built into the browser outweighs the minor annoyance of having to hit Ctrl+k twice once in a while to delete a message.

Yeh, even though I can't reproduce, a few others have and filed on it and hopefully Opera will figure it out.

Note though that for Hotmail POP specifically, under "options -> more options -> POP" and mail.live.com, there are 2 different delete options you can choose from. I tested both.

The one is about just moving the messages to the hotmail's trash when you permanently delete them in your client. When, I do this, they go under "Deleted/POP" and are never removed from the server.

The other option is for honoring the mail client's wishes. But, when I try this in any client, the messages are still not removed from the server and they're just moved to "Deleted" at mail.live.com.

So, for me, they're not removed from the server no matter what. But, they're still recognized as being permanently deleted by the client. They're just moved then.

I have mine set to the second option: 'Do what my other program says-if it says to delete messages, then delete them.' I've never tried the other option.

When it works properly, it gets moved to the hotmail 'Deleted' folder, as you said, and then they get permanently deleted from server after 10 days or whatever it is. The Opera Mail client always shows they are deleted.

The only reason I noticed it isn't working is because I'm running a messenger client called aMSN that gives me a mail icon in the system tray as soon as I receive an e-mail (this is why I don't bother to have Opera Mail check ever X minutes, and instead do everything manually). So when the message fails to delete I still see the icon. But I did make sure to check that the problem still exists when I'm not running aMSN. The long delay when the mail panel indicates it is Deleting message is the telltale sign.

O.K.

I've been trying a few different things and I think the issue may be related to a timing issue.

When I delete mails manually, I usually do it quickly. Ctrl+K to receive, and if it's something like an ad, I quickly delete it and Ctrl+K to delete. So, sometimes it's only a matter of 10-15 seconds.

As a test I recently tried setting Opera to check every 5 minutes and stopped doing anything manually. I did it for about a week, and the messages were properly deleted every time.

I briefly set it to check every 1 minute and, although I only tried it for about 5 or 6 e-mails, it also properly deleted every time.

So, then I turned off automatic checking and made a point to wait at least a minute since receiving the message before I manually sent the request to delete the message. It hasn't been quite a week, but so far it's worked properly every time. During that time, twice I've tried deleting quickly like I normally do and once it worked properly and once it didn't work properly.

Interesting. Perhaps Opera takes a bit to update the queue of messages to del and if you sync too soon, maybe the queue isn't ready yet, the messages don't get deleted and the queue gets cleared.