Planned Parenthood Bombed

Planned Parenthood Bombed

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/04/02/456446/planned-parenthood-in-wisconsin-bombed/

PLANNED PARENTHOOD IN WISCONSIN BOMBED | Police are investigating after a homemade explosive device started a small fire at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin. A small device placed on a windowsill went off around 7:30 last night and started a fire. Firefighters responded, but the fire had burnt itself out when they arrived. The clinic was empty and no one was hurt. The state has been debating a number of bills that critics say amount to a “war against women,” including one limiting abortion coverage in private medical plans and another basically equating single motherhood with child abuse.

The GOPers need to stop these attacks against on Planned Parenthood that they're telling to "appeal to the base." Now we having domestic terrorism against a valuable provider of women's health services that provides a wide range of services including breast cancer detection and STD screenings. This is far from the first time clinics have been bombed.

GOP, your overheated rhetoric is beyond irresponsible.

saucepn, the main argument of this thread (Sang's, cribbed from Rachael Maddow…) is as follows:

1. Opponents of abortion won't stop talking about the issue;
2. Their talk incites violence…
3. Such violence is (or soon will be) escalating.
4. Hence, they should shut up!

With 2. and 3. in doubt, the force of 4. is minimal. No?

(One could substitute "Proponents" for "Oponents" in 1. and get the same result…)

#4 is incorrect. There's a lot of moral justification for opposing abortion. However, what you fail to understand is that the anti-abortion forces are singling out Planned Parenthood, demonizing it, getting it defunded; instead of making the empathetic moral arguments against the practice. In doing so, they're causing more harm than good on multiple fronts.

One the first front is the practice of abortion itself. Planned Parenthood prevents approximately 220,000 abortions per year. Inexpensive, true abortion clinics that do nothing else taking the place of PP clinics therefore would result in more abortions, not less. Gave them a couple years and they'll sprout like mushrooms.

The second front is on woman's health. The vast majority of PP clinics do not even offer the service. Defund Planned Parenthood and you're cutting off other health services, such as cancer screenings at those clinics while not preventing a single abortion. No, it isn't hyperbole to say that in addition to accomplishing diminished access to those health, you're jeopardizing human lives; these are fatal diseases we're talking about here.

The third front is cost. By the time those women realize they have cancer or other diseases, the disease would have advanced. It's far cheaper to let the woman go to Planned Parenthood, get the early screenings have it taken care of than to have them taken care of in the hospital with will full blown cancer at taxpayer expense. Likewise, it would cost more to open more state operated clinics than to allow Planned Parenthood to continue to provide those services. The women go to PP usually because it's the often the only clinic available that they can afford and is close by; three quarters of the PP clients for those services are below 150% of the poverty line and that's why they go there. Anti-Planned Parent folks like to say "why don't they go to the "free clinics?" "1) There's not always one available 2) if there is, it will be higher cost to the taxpayer than a PP clinic in most cases.

In short, the current GOP assault on PP is misguided, disingenuous, potentially life-threating for woman, and ultimately expensive. Maybe a better approach would be make sure the laws are strong enough to prevent taxpayer money funding abortion, which has no sane proponents. This way you're not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Sang, Planned Parenthood will survive without government funds… It didn't come into existence in 1970, you know?
Your typical economic argument —Do what you're against, because if you don't you'll get something worse— is not convincing. The reason Planned Parenthood comes under so much (rhetorical) fire is the simple fact that it is the largest provider of abortion.
Another is its and its supporters' commitment to abortion… (See here for an example.) It is highly ideological; your attemps to avoid that harken back to the early Progressives, whether you know it or not.

I was aborted but managed to escape as they in amazement.

Will it survive? The stated goal of several GOP politicians is the destruction on Planned Parenthood. About 1/3 of it's funding comes from the government, so if you're correct, it will be in a much diminished capacity to provide health services to women with few, or no other options.

The author of the NYT article shows us his bias by his insisting on the phrasing "largest provider of abortion" while almost ignoring the other services that PP provides. He further ignores the fact that donation poured into PP not in support of abortion, but in support of the other services it provides and he further attempts to diminish PP's role in breast cancer screenings, while ignoring the other cancer screenings that PP provides. Further he misrepresents the data from the Gallup poll he cites.

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

Will it survive? The stated goal of several GOP politicians is the destruction of Planned Parenthood.

Not to worry on that account: I remember when the stated goal of many southern Dem politicians was the prevention of desegregation… How'd that work out?

(Yes, of course: We all know Ross Douthat is a terribly biased columnist and that his reading of the Gallup polls is likely suspect, as is his honesty — because he doesn't base his opinions on the same HuffPo columnists you read, Sang? BTW: He reported that the donations to Komen had risen dramatically the day after the controversy became news… Mayor Bloomberg's quarter-mill was substantial, but wouldn't –by itself– qualify as a torrent. But then you missed much of the sense of the article, too. Why would particulars matter?
Oh, and wouldn't you want to slight his writing skills? I mean, while you're at it…)

I truly don't know why you don't understand this: People keep harping on Planned Parenthood's abortion business because –get this– Planned Parenthood is the major provider of abortions. Granted, that's not something serious like hypocrisy or inconsistency. But it is quite understandable.

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

How'd that work out?

The "Democratic" politicians switches in mass to the GOP and you already knew that

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

Oh, and wouldn't you want to slight his writing skills? I mean, while you're at it…

There's no need. The bias and deliberate omissions in his article spoke for themselves.

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

People keep harping on Planned Parenthood's abortion business because –get this– Planned Parenthood is the major provider of abortions.

The net number of abortions they provide is 80,000 (300,000 - 220,000.) That's a drop in the bucket compared to the total number performed in the US. Even using the gross number of abortions this anti-abortion site says that this year already there 501,000 (number rounded off downward) abortions already this year in America. We can do a little math here. The gross number of abortions PP does in a year is 300,000, which means 25,000 a month. So, three weeks short of the halfway mark in the year (counting June 15 as the halfway mark), we can calculate 143700. This leaves PP with a little less than a 29% "marketshare." The "conservatives" are really going to risk losing all the valuable services PP provides in saving women's lives, preventing the spread of disease, etc for that? Seriously? And like I said, for abortion, PP is more easily replaceable than you seem to think.

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

Why would particulars matter?

Once again, I was the one that looked at the particulars far closer than you, which is why my bullshit detector went off with loud noises and flashing lights.

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

The gross number of abortions PP does in a year is 300,000, which means 25,000 a month.

That's 300,000 murders of the innocents too many....I would prefer Planned Parenthood to be completely out of the Abortion Business altogether---no if, ands, or buts.

So if Planned Parenthood refuses, Federal funds (our taxes) should be cut off completely---down to the last red cent. Period....

If Planned Parenthood can't stay in business if it loses Federal Funds (our tax dollars), then good souls like 'Coon & his lot can belly up to the bar & foot the difference privately.

If that don't work.......see ya....don't let the door hit you in the ass as you pass on into oblivion...good riddance.

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

The net number of abortions they provide is 80,000 (300,000 - 220,000.) That's a drop in the bucket compared to the total number performed in the US. Even using the gross number of abortions this anti-abortion site says that this year already there 501,000 (number rounded off downward) abortions already this year in America. We can do a little math here. The gross number of abortions PP does in a year is 300,000, which means 25,000 a month. So, three weeks short of the halfway mark in the year (counting June 15 as the halfway mark), we can calculate 143700. This leaves PP with a little less than a 29% "marketshare."

The "net" number? (The sad part is, you don't know how silly you're being…)

Sang, the last verifiable figures I'd seen gave PP shy of 25% of the "market"… Perhaps your point escapes me? Nah.

The ground trembled with the strain of steel crushing into steel like a slow-motion earthquake. I waited for the caboose, but the cars kept coming in a steady line. A low mist […] was kicked up by the tremors. I trembled too. I waited, but more cars came, and the line didn't end […].
(source: The Forgotten Man by Robert Crais; Ballentine Books edition, 2005)

I know, Sang, that you believe the rails you run on comprise the entirety of the landscape that "matters" and that noone who'd lived there before or does still or on either side of those tracks has any right to an opinion or any say about what goes on, down the line.

…to put it as kindly as I can: Your view is a runaway locomotive, and you don't care! (It's the latter that bothers me, if you were wondering.)

Douthat's points aren't convenient for you, so you use any rationalization you can find to ignore them. Who do you think you're fooling?

Planned Parenthood promotes, & endorses Gendercide, the abortion of a baby due to it's sex.

Want a boy, but not a girl?

No problem, Planned Parenthood can guide you through the entire process right up to a late term abortion if you need one to terminate the girl.

Oh, & they even will help you use Medicare in the process as a bonus!

Did you know how hard your tax dollars are working?



What do you think?

Are you OK with this?

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

Sang, the last verifiable figures I'd seen gave PP shy of 25% of the "market"… Perhaps your point escapes me? Nah.

So my math actually gives PP a higher marketshare than you say. The point is that you guys are trying to destroy PP over a relatively small percentage of abortions, but mostly just depriving women of health resources that are not easily replaced in either the private sector or in the public sector. This makes zero sense. Of course, like I keep saying, most PP clinics do not even offer abortion and are legally and financially separate from those that do. In other words, by defunding them, all you're doing in those cases is reducing access to healthcare. But you have to be blind anti-abortion zealots waging war against PP, without so much as contemplating solutions such as being defunding the clinics that do offer offer abortion, but leave the rest alone.

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

Douthat's points aren't convenient for you, so you use any rationalization you can find to ignore them.

He has no valid points.

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

Who do you think you're fooling?

Nobody, nor am I attempting to fool anyone. I'm simply stating facts.

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

[Douthat] has no valid points.

Hm. You must not have read the article I read…

So: Any more "bombings" to go along with all this over-the-top rhetoric from the Right? Any news about the two episodes you brought up?

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

The gross number of abortions PP does in a year is 300,000, which means 25,000 a month.

That's 300,000 murders of the innocents too many....I would prefer Planned Parenthood to be completely out of the Abortion Business altogether---no if, ands, or buts.

So if Planned Parenthood refuses, Federal funds (our taxes) should be cut off completely---down to the last red cent. Period....

If Planned Parenthood can't stay in business if it loses Federal Funds (our tax dollars), then good souls like 'Coon & his lot can belly up to the bar & foot the difference privately.

If that don't work.......see ya....don't let the door hit you in the ass as you pass on into oblivion...good riddance.

yea free will kills man, you should kill everyone who practices such sacrilege

Originally posted by Virusboy:

yea free will kills man, you should kill everyone who practices such sacrilege

Would you all join me in a WTF!? (No; probably not…)

The U.S. House of Representatives just voted: They can't decide if flushing a fetus is okay, if it's a boy (or a girl) — that's the criterion; is one of those intrinsically less valuable? Sang, you're the expert here: Which gender should get priority? (I'd like a three-page answer… But I neither expect nor ask for it. I'd just like you to explain why abortion for sex-selection —or, Heaven forbid!, sexual orientation!— is okay…
After all, PP only provides 300,000 a year; and that's only less than a third…)

And, again, I ask: What evidence can you provide, that conservative, pro-Life, Right Wing, religious Right rhetoric has led to an increase in violtent attacks on Planned Parenthood clinics?
Has there been an increase in violent attacks?

Aren't you a little ashamed of yourself? (No! Of course not!) You can respond… But, if you don't, others will know what you really think!

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

Aren't you a little ashamed of yourself? (No! Of course not!) You can respond… But, if you don't, others will know what you really think!

Balls on dead center bullseye....Over 4,400 viewers since April.

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

Sang, you're the expert here: Which gender should get priority? (I'd like a three-page answer… But I neither expect nor ask for it. I'd just like you to explain why abortion for sex-selection —or, Heaven forbid!, sexual orientation!— is okay…After all, PP only provides 300,000 a year; and that's only less than a third…)

It's not. But then, it's not PP making that judgement, is it? Or had that fact escaped you? You want to express outrage over that sort of decision, go right ahead. There are many, on both ends of the political spectrum, that would support you. I would probably be one of them. Late term abortion is particularly complex subject.

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

A small device placed on a windowsill went off around 7:30 last night and started a fire. Firefighters responded, but the fire had burnt itself out when they arrived.

Fire cracker?

Off the radar, already?

But remember, let's not rush to judgment and assume that the terrorist who attacked Planned Parenthood has a record of involvement with the forced birthers just because that is always the case every single time a terrorist attacks a women's health care provider. This might turn out to be the one time in history when the terrorist really is just a lone lunatic with no agenda of terrorizing doctors and their patients. We'll just have to wait and see.

Let's send a message to the terrorists: We stand with women and their health care providers. Click here to donate to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund on Act Blue.

Rhetorical over-kill? Hm.
How's the federal case coming? Anyone?

I note that the media, Sanguinemoon, and Planned Parenthood –and, perhaps, the federal government; and Wisconsin authorities– have lost interest in this case…

Maddow, is not so mad now. (Do people still listen to her? ) Sang is mostly silent; PP is a somewhat "unclean" topic and the powers that be (…that "be wanting more funds"… ) are having a hard time, making their pitch effective…if their primary concern is "legalizing/legitimizing" infanticide.

Where is the GOP prompted, promoted, encouraged attacks against "women's health centers"? Where are the "defenders" of such places…?

The "defenders" -as usual- have moved on to greener pastures. (It will be interesting, to see where they go — should BHO be defeated…)

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

I note that the media, Sanguinemoon, and Planned Parenthood –and, perhaps, the federal government; and Wisconsin authorities– have lost interest in this case…

Maddow, is not so mad now. (Do people still listen to her? ) Sang is mostly silent; PP is a somewhat "unclean" topic and the powers that be (…that "be wanting more funds"… ) are having a hard time, making their pitch effective…if their primary concern is "legalizing/legitimizing" infanticide.

Where is the GOP prompted, promoted, encouraged attacks against "women's health centers"? Where are the "defenders" of such places…?

The "defenders" -as usual- have moved on to greener pastures. (It will be interesting, to see where they go — should BHO be defeated…)

I see you're still using the rjhowie writing style...throw words and random letters against the wall, then post what sticks.

And a Happy Thanksgiving to you, too, sir! May your vision be sufficiently keen to recognize the good around you!

Ah the Thanksgiving Dinner where the early settlers joined the nice Indians for a wee eating session. Boy oh boy didn't those poor men in the feathers soon get shafted.But ejoy yourelves anyway as the feathered are long gone and I like turkey too.

Originally posted by OakdaleFTL:

And a Happy Thanksgiving to you, too, sir! May your vision be sufficiently keen to recognize the good around you!

There's words that resound. The good around me start with the best wife in the galaxy...and beyond.

Four grandboys.

Two cats and a dog.

And a partridge in a pear tree.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Ah the Thanksgiving Dinner where the early settlers joined the nice Indians for a wee eating session. Boy oh boy didn't those poor men in the feathers soon get shafted.But ejoy yourelves anyway as the feathered are long gone and I like turkey too.

Indeed. Please recall that those early settlers hailed from...ta-da...the UK, the land of colonial misadventures and worse, now relegated to the dustbin of history.
...........................................
But I digress...this is about PP.

Originally posted by jimbro37:

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Ah the Thanksgiving Dinner where the early settlers joined the nice Indians for a wee eating session. Boy oh boy didn't those poor men in the feathers soon get shafted.But ejoy yourelves anyway as the feathered are long gone and I like turkey too.

Indeed. Please recall that those early settlers hailed from...ta-da...the UK, the land of colonial misadventures and worse, now relegated to the dustbin of history.

Excuse me, but they were English. The UK wouldn't exist for another eighty years or so.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

Originally posted by jimbro37:

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Ah the Thanksgiving Dinner where the early settlers joined the nice Indians for a wee eating session. Boy oh boy didn't those poor men in the feathers soon get shafted.But ejoy yourelves anyway as the feathered are long gone and I like turkey too.

Indeed. Please recall that those early settlers hailed from...ta-da...the UK, the land of colonial misadventures and worse, now relegated to the dustbin of history.

Excuse me, but they were English. The UK wouldn't exist for another eighty years or so.

But I excuse you, jimbro, for your ignorance of things UK or English and so many other things.

My bad.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

But I excuse you, jimbro, for your ignorance of things UK or English and so many other things.

Believe me, I would never say that, ya wee chancer!

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

Believe me, I would never say that, ya wee chancer!

But...but...it appeared in the post that I clipped!
:puzzlement:
:consternation:
:amazement:

Chancer?! What do I have to gain from the truth-telling?