New Yahoo! look

New Yahoo! look

http://www.yahoo.com/preview

big surprise... it doesn't work yet with Opera, and changing the UA identifier doesn't fool it.

My guess is it relies heavily on AJAX and similar features, which of course Opera supports fine.

It works fine for me while identifying as IE.

I wonder whether they will carry out their plan to support additional browsers soon.

I'm on 8.5, and it still doesn't work when I identify as IE6.

:/

Originally posted by sykora:

It works fine for me while identifying as IE.

there is always one lone person that claims that "while identifying as IE it works fine for me"... please. it clearly states that it doesnt work with anything but IE and Firefox.

Opera either needs to empty its pockets (read: pay off journalists, major sites, etc like everybody else), get their browser added to at least one pc carriers installed bundle or push a lawsuit occasionally.

Its getting annoying watching folks disrespect my browser choice. is actually more annoying to watch Opera take it year after year.

Originally posted by rootsnrooted:

there is always one lone person that claims that "while identifying as IE it works fine for me"... please. it clearly states that it doesnt work with anything but IE and Firefox.

Just because it says it doesn't work with anything other than IE and firefox doesn't mean that it can't work for me while identifying as IE. It means, in most cases, that it has not been built for, and has not been tested with opera in mind. If I didn't say that I got it working, I'd be lying.

If it works when identifying as IE, it's probably some browser sniffing.
If it doesn't work when identifying as IE, it means it's using something Opera doesn't support.
Get the difference?

As I said, I wonder whether Yahoo! will carry out their "plan to support additional browsers soon".

Originally posted by rootsnrooted:

there is always one lone person that claims that "while identifying as IE it works fine for me"... please. it clearly states that it doesnt work with anything but IE and Firefox.

"If you have made mistakes, even serious ones, there is always another chance for you."
You are wrong mate !

Yahoo is lying and is blocking Opera browser !
Here are a few screenshots as prove. New layout is working fine without any problems (as far i see).

http://my.opera.com/pawelsz/homes/files/yahoo_dirty_practices_1.jpg
(Default identification)

http://my.opera.com/pawelsz/homes/files/yahoo_dirty_practices_2.jpg
(Identification as IE)

All under Opera 9.x

WE SHOULD STAND-UP AND FIGHT !

Yahoo! will not fix this problem.
Why? It won't affect their business. They won't lose customers who are Opera users.
Why? M$N and Google do the same too.
We must find a major company/web portal which supports Opera, then take our business there. M$N, Yahoo! and Google will then take notice of Opera.
For more information, please visit and respond to the following thread:

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=137678

As I have said already, users don't need to do anything. Its Opera's obligation to fight discrimination against its product, not ours. I run a business, I have a wife and kid, I got two mortgages and a car. I have hobbies. I have side jobs. I have books to read. I help maintain 4 web sites. When am I supposed to make time to convince Yahoo to stop blocking my favorite browser?

And to be honest, if Opera can't do something as simple as file a lawsuit, I ought to move on. After 3 years it will be sad to say goodbye to Opera, but I'd prefer my favorite search engine to my favorite browser on any day of the week. I can replace the email client, bookmark manager, notepad etc..but I can't replace search engine results when I am doing work related research. I just can't. (yahoo and google help me earn a living. opera does not.)

I am get tired of having to find a way to support a company that probably makes my salary a thousand times over. Its time they support me. File a lawsuit. Take a full page ad in five major periodicals all over the world, detailing illegal tactics against their company growth. Publicly search for one computer manufacturer that will carry Opera as bundled software. I know there are some business savvy folks in Norway. Let's stop with the grassroots fight and move on to the corporate strategy. If Opera could pull off ONE BIG legal or business oriented move, this thing could get jumpin'. No offense, somebody in brand positioning and marketing needs to start earning their pay check. The day of "users championing for Opera" are over.

Originally posted by rootsnrooted:

And to be honest, if Opera can't do something as simple as file a lawsuit, I ought to move on.

A lawsuit on what grounds?

And how is a lawsuit simple? It costs a lot of money, and takes up a lot of time and resources. What happens if the lawsuit is lost?

No offense, somebody in brand positioning and marketing needs to start earning their pay check.

This "lawsuits as a marketing tool" thing is what's wrong with the world today. By suing people just for the sake of getting publicity, you are wasting taxpayers' money.

Stop being part of the problem. Be part of the solution instead. Open the Web.

Many big companies succeeded due to their users. Look at Google.

Nilsen, software companies sue one another all the time. There are no wasted taxpayer dollars. Companies can sue on grounds of unfair competition, monolopy, conspiracy, intent to commit conspiracy, etc etc. Its called protecting your investment.

Google has a legal team that is LETHAL. They routinely sue companies that infringe upon their rights.

Originally posted by rootsnrooted:

Nilsen, software companies sue one another all the time.

That doesn't make it right.

There are no wasted taxpayer dollars.

Yes there are.

Companies can sue on grounds of unfair competition, monolopy, conspiracy, intent to commit conspiracy, etc etc. Its called protecting your investment.

It's called wasting money.

Google has a legal team that is LETHAL. They routinely sue companies that infringe upon their rights.

They do? Could you list, say, five examples?

Yahoo! have their graded browser support and are committed to follow through with it. We (Opera) and Yahoo! are in constant contact about issues we find, such as this one, and bugs they find in our browser. We've already made a lot of progress, but Yahoo! has a lot of sites, both new sites being developed and old legacy code that is still in use. Changes also take time to implement and go live. With sites as big as Yahoo!'s a lot of testing has to take place before a change goes live.

Unfortunately the new preview of the Yahoo homepage blocks Opera (and most other browsers including IE7 the last time I checked). There is however a version available with no browser sniffing if you hunt for it, and we are working with Yahoo! to fix the issues on this page in Opera. It almost certainly wont block Opera when the page is formally launched, and likely before then. I've got no problems with Yahoo! and how they are working with us. There are many other companies and sites that are worse.

-- David

rootsnrooted/ and Nilsen/

Lawsuit is not always an easy or even effective solution. In some cases, however, it may be useful. Especially when a particular country's government policy or "public websites" are discriminating against non-MS web browsers. Clear and convincing domestic and international legal grounds might be found in such a case: Constitutional law, competition law and GATT/WTO.

Moreover, standard compliance is not simply a question of end-users' web accessibility. It is a question of market access: not only for browser vendors, but also for mobile or embedded web-browsing solution providers.

Standard compliance is not merely a "technical" issue which can adequately be dealt with as a "user support" task. It is clearly a marketing and management issue.

Community driven web standard movement (with end-user and technical sectors as its main audience) should now "move on" to a managerial level with re-inforced legal support.

Internet technology is international. But each country's institutional and regulatory frameworks shaping that country's internet environment, are not. Software developpers (and their marketing team) might have no clue why in some countries, their product is gaining market share, whereas in others, it is languishing. The answer does not lie in technology or consumer taste. The secret is in the legal and institutional arrangement. User or developper oriented web standard movement cannot address this issue.

To some extent, I agree with rootsnrooted's remark: The day of "users championing for Opera" are over.

Open Web Korea is hoping to launch, as it were, "Stage II" of web standard movement. http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=143244

Dstorey, I'm glad to hear that Opera and Yahoo! are working together to ensure that Yahoo! supports Opera. I understand that Yahoo! has many websites and it will be difficult to make all of them support Opera. I think Yahoo! should work on their sites with the most traffic first.

Opera definitely needs to be more agressive with its campaigns to open the web. Opera and users must fight together against browser discrimination. We need our own version of Spread Firefox.

I have posted several suggestions for opening the web and improving Opera's market share. I hope an Opera Software representative can look into them. I'm not forcing Opera to implement them, but at least consider them, and do implement them if you think they are good. Please reply in their respective threads:

My first suggestion is finding websites which support Opera, and then promoting/supporting them. This is our way of thanking and rewarding these websites for supporting Opera. This will encourage more websites to support Opera. This will have most impact on commercial sites, where money is at stake.
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=137678

My second suggestion is to create a website which teaches how to write HTML/JavaScript/etc. that will work with Opera. Some webmasters may wish to support Opera, but they may consider it too difficult, or can't be bothered. This website will ease their job of supporting Opera, and will be targeted at amatuer webmasters.
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=136761

My third suggestion is signing up for Yahoo! Groups, Google Groups, and similar group-hosting websites, and creating Opera groups there. This will allow us to plug and spread Opera to users of those group-hosting websites, and will allow them to discuss Opera in their own group-hosting website, in the Opera group.
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=138926

how many opera users are there world wide?

How about an organized protest... I'll leave the details up to people who are much better at this than I am but the basic premis is this:

To organize and get just about every single world wide Opera user on this planet on a given day or better yet during a given week some time in the near future to simply write one or two emails complaing about this problem to yahoo and any other large non supporting portal.


I've written probably 10 letters to yahoo as I am sure many people have. I believe it would have an impact if a huge amount hit their mail servers at once.

Hey an even better idea surfaced ... I'm sure that if the total number of Opera users complained to yahoo just once per week until they fixed their stuff they would get it done pretty quick.

I don't know of any company that could put up with a million or several hundred thousand complaints on a weekly basis.

Unfortunately there is a problem. Because of human nature it would be impossible to get even half or even 1/10 of the opera users to complain. People today are just to scatter-brained and self centered to acutally get a community spirit. There is no single mindness to group together to get something done. Everybody will want to run something or offer an opinion but no one will actually participate.

Unless someone else wants to get it orgainized better lets just say for now the first week in September. That should give plenty of time for every one who reads this mesasge to go ahead and post and repost this to other forums, to email friends, put this message in blogs and forums all over the world to remind everyone that during this first week of September to go crazy and email the hell out of Yahoo and complain.



Why we have this problem in the first place.

W3C - The World Wide Web Consortium has long been the advocate for consistent specifications regarding web page development.

Billy Boy and IE have never complied with any specifications (this includes Pascal, C, C++, Java, Basic and HTML and others)

Netscape another cheezeball browser which gained popularity had its differences too.

To make a long story very short.. .if a browser does not conform 100% to the standards set by W3C then it should not be allowed to exist.

It has probably cost the world wide economy over a TRILLION dollars since 1991 (when the first HTML / HTTP browser and web page were created) with all of the extra coding that programmers have had to deal with to make pages compatible.

Almost everybody who creates a browser has to add their little twist that makes it non compatible with others.

IE has been so bad for so long that web page coders have simply adapted to the wrong way of doing things.

Is that piece of crap Netscape still confined to 256 colors? What a piece of dogshit. Yet many people (the ignorant lemmings) still use it.

What really should happen is that all of the web page designers should get together all over the world and say we are going to go back to school for a couple of weeks, refresh our technique and knowledge to get back to the real standards and refuse to code anything but to those standards.

If no one ever again put code in for specific browsers than we would see a revolution take place. There would be an increasing number of pages that would not display correctly in the crummy browers, and eventually the people would have to make a switch from the ones that are not doing it right

have a great day,

wizzie

http://www.yahoo.com/beta works just fine. ID as Opera.

Good old Yahoo! Now for Google...

People were saying Opera needs a contract with a PC vendor to force them to make sites work with Opera.

The Wii does not count? The DS does not count?

Opera currently has a large market share in mobile browsing. Could they use this as a launchpad for their desktop browser?

Originally posted by Ace Jack Neo:

a large market share in mobile browsing

Yes, this is my observation too.
Also notice that the trend among 14 years old is PC more than TV, and SMS list of 100 friends. Opera will soon grow a lot where it matters most.

Originally posted by MarcFou:

http://www.yahoo.com/beta works just fine. ID as Opera.

Wow...that works with ID as Opera.
Great.

I used the new page masking as Mozilla(masking as IE would break the page). But now i dont need to ! cool

I remember reading something like this somewhere on one of Yahoo!'s blogs:

«Support for the Opera browser and other minority browsers will be delayed as we cannot afford the development cost for everything at the same time.»

Not a direct quote, but I am pretty sure I read it on Yahoo! they where talking about the new Yahoo! front page.

Originally posted by rootsnrooted:

Nilsen, software companies sue one another all the time. There are no wasted taxpayer dollars. Companies can sue on grounds of unfair competition, monolopy, conspiracy, intent to commit conspiracy, etc etc. Its called protecting your investment.

Companies might sue each other, and they pay their own lawyers, true. But of course there are taxpayer dollars in play. Who do you think pays the judges? Opera? Yahoo? Google? Mozilla? Nope. Taxpayers do. Who pays to print the opinions of the court? Who pays the clerks in the courts? Who pays for their time? Who pays for a jury to be set up? Taxpayers. In fact, 90% of the cases in US courts currently are corporations suing each other. And yes, it takes taxpayer money.

Now, monopoly is not a cause of action in the United States, at least. It's not by itself illegal to be a monopoly, although it is illegal to use your monopoly to block competition. But in this case, there is no case that any portal has monopoly or they are using their market power to push off a competitor (Opera is a browser, not a portal, so the market of portals doesn't even apply here). And I'm sorry, but there are no legal requirements that portals or any website comply with any web standards, or that they be compatible with ANY web browser. Web standards aren't law. Would the web be a better place if they did? Yes. But there is no legal requirement for them to. "Intent to commit conspiracy" is also not a cause of action, if it is, can you tell me where? "Conspiracy" itself has to be linked to an actual crime - such as "conspiracy to violate patent law" or "conspiracy to commit murder", and that something you are charging conspiracy to do has to be a legal cause of action.

If you think Opera can sue its way onto greater market share or greater browser compatibility, you are sadly mistaken.