opera 11.64, High Ram memory usage (from 700mb up )

opera 11.64, High Ram memory usage (from 700mb up )

Updated today ,and now it loads 700mb after a while ,and growing.It's really too much.
There is a workaround maybe ,til next update?

Something definitely fishy there, I have 50 (FIFTY!!!) Tabs open just to check RAM usage - 450 Mb and 0% to 3% CPU usage. But then, I do avoid Java laden sites!

Mine gets between 500 & 800 most of the time though it's been that high for the last few versions I've used.

Check - Ctrl + F12 (Settings ... Preferences) > Advanced > History ... Memory Cache

Instead of Automatic, I have mine set to 4 Mb

Check also the number of different Fonts at the Fonts section - if you have more than five (5), rationalising that list will avoid loading oversized font files.

How much RAM do you have installed? - Over 4 Gb will tend to have Opera using whatever it can freely grab, but it usually yields whenever other Apps. need RAM for themselves. Check Opera's usage when you fire up a PDF Reader with a large file, and Word with a large document, and a Graphics editor with an image about 3600 x 2400 - You will probably find that the "excessive" RAM usage is really only because the RAM is NOT being utilised for anything else.

My 450 Mb drops to about 360 Mb when I do that, a drop of about 20%.

Windows allocates RAM dynamically, swapping inactive Applications out to the paging file(s) because the more RAM available for the ACTIVE Application, the faster that Application will respond, and Win 7 handles this a bit more aggressively than "good old XP" - which is why Apps seem faster (although Windows Explorer and Indexing is a whole 'nother story!!!).

Thanks now i will check your suggestion .
I have Xp .not indexing (disabled) , 2gb ddr memory .
Actually i was doing other stuff at the same time , and noticed opera was "eating" too much as my system became slow .
Performance generally got not so good ,maybe because they "aimed" to generally faster machine than mine i guess .
Usually i'm on 10 tabs ,dont think i'm using java so much but i'm not sure about.
Again thanks .

Mine 11.64 installation eats much more memory than 11.52. It consumes about 1 Gb just after (re)start and browsing several websites (also I have more than 100 tabs opened, but neither is actually loaded during starting up). Looks like it suffers massive memory leaks. Sometimes causes rendering/navigation degradation (websites using JavaScript become unusable) and freezes (or rare crashes).

Even this Forum page runs to about 180 Kb with all the JS etc in the background - all that for about 4,000 characters of information! 100 of those makes for about 180 Mb. Try a Facebook page - 400 - 500 Kb each! Then go to YouTube and watch a Flash Video if you really want to burn up some RAM.

But aren't we all being just a tad precious about it all? - We act like armchair experts, and pontificate about all manner of technical reasons why one PC or one Browser or one OS is better than another while really it is just like our favourite Mobile 'Phone or favourite Car - we DON'T know much about actually designing or building ANY of them, but we sure do have some very solid reasons for our choices, especially when someone else argues about our particular choices. - We can always pick where the highly trained professionals have not done things as well as we would have done. Then let us not forget that "Things weren't like this back in the Good Old Days" - Hang on a minute! - Dialup connection gave us 14 Mb an hour if we were lucky, on a 1 Mhz PC which had 4 Mb of RAM and HDDs were generally around 100 Mb if we were wealthy! - Now, our Mobile Phones are 600 Mhz, with 32 Gb RAM and we whinge if downloads are around 14 Mb per minute!

While we all complain about our Browsers, what happened to looking at the PC or the OS, or even our own impatient habits? If we can't hear the stereo in the car because the exhaust has dropped off, is it the fault of the stereo?

I see a lot of "Browser XYZ can do ABC so why can't Opera do the same?" in many discussions, and I say: If you like the way that Browswer XYZ does things, why don't you use that Browser? Opera has many unique features, and I like it, so I use it. If I load a few too many sites which use JS and that slows my system down, then I dump a few pages - I can only read them one at a time, after all! Just like if I have too much junk in the back of my car, and it starts to slow down, then it is time to unload some junk!

Opera has always been, and always will be, FAR BETTER than anything which I could write myself, so I am grateful for something which cost me nothing, and gets the job done to my liking - "Best of Breed" if you like. If excess JS causes rendering problems, I guess that I was the one who loaded up all those pages, and if a particular page takes longer to load than I had hoped, I guess that Opera is NOT reading my mind and prefetching the whole Web!

Memory Leaks? - I am sure that the Opera Team use some of the fancy tools available to test / check for that. Slowdowns and loss of rendering degradation? - Just try some huge file Spell-Check in Word while watching a Video on a second screen and running a big spreadsheet at the same time! To my understanding, it is far less a problem with RAM management, but rather a GDI management problem. The GDI POOL IS LIMITED and once that limit is reached, weird things happen - Fonts go crazy, Menus get lost, the System slows down etc. - Just the same as if you overload your trailer and try to drive the same way as you would with just an empty car!

Opera can only control how Opera uses GDI Resources - How many times do you see a Flash Video panel floating where it shouldn't be? - Opera did NOT write that plugin! - Most of the plugins are well-behaved, but Video rendering seem to be the worst behaved of the lot, mainly because there is NO ONE STANDARD PLUGIN - every man and his dog seem to have fiddled about with one or another, and who knows how they manage the GDI or even RAM Resources! Google for GDIView by NirSoft, download it and run it - then you can understand the GDI load being imposed by whatever is running at the time! Yes, it WOULD be handy if MS provided a meter-style display of RAM / GDI usage in a compact text-only % based entry on the Toolbar, but I doubt that we'll get one anytime soon. (There's an idea for an enterprising Programmer!) I have an old copy of Winpulse which shows 100% GDI with NO Apps running, just Win 7 loaded - so I guess that it is calculating on the old W98 / XP allocations. GDIView is the only tool I've been able to find for this, and it is a bit cumbersome for full-time metering.

Maybe someone could come up with a Win 7 widget, or an Opera plugin to sit on the Status Bar? Until then, we just have to think about what we are doing, and be realistic in our expectations.

Was having a Senior's moment there regarding GDI Monitoring: We HAVE a rather clumsy, but yet built-in monitor: "Task Manager" - granted you have to fiddle the standard display settings, but it DOES shed some light on what is going on.

Start "Task Manager" and click the Process tab, then click the "View" menu and then click "Select Columns" and tick "User Objects" and "GDI Objects" then click "OK". After making sure that you've selected "Show processes from all users." You can keep an eye on just how high the usage goes. It is quite interesting to watch how these increase enormously with JS -

Watch not only your Browser, but watch for the JAVA.EXE entry - if I go to http://www.java.com/en/download/testjava.jsp and run the test, OVER 700 GDI objects are created, and they DON'T release quickly when you close the page.

Comparing IE and Opera with the same set of windows can be fun! With the same 16 sites open, Opera [as one Process] showing 121 User Objects & 604 GDI Objects; while 8 IE processes total 1,553 User Objects and 1,472 GDI Objects!!! - Who is the greedy little beast then?

I must say I experience the exact same problem:

v.11.62 - rutinely used more than 30 tabs at once, memory usage usually around 300-400MB max, no problems

v.11.64 - once started I have about 300MB and regardless of the number of opened tabs, the memory usage starts increasing and after some time quite easily reaches more than 1GB and then as I have a computer with 2GB RAM, I can see problems such as delaying cursor, text in forms is filled with a dely, everything is very slow and the computer becomes unusable... upon restarting opera, I start with 300MB again and the same process repeats - slow memory usage build up until unusable.

I spoke with other ppl about this and it seems like this is a general problem of those using Win XP like me. Win 7 seems to be working OK, I dont know about Vista, but I assume there must be some bug in the actual program and not a problem on my side.

Refer to my previous post above - Noting that XP has a much lower limit on GDI resources, and will start acting up MUCH earlier than Win 7.

Windows (all flavours) is DESIGNED to use as much RAM as it can, since RAM is faster than swapping to HDD, and RAM usage is not a real problem, I only start to scratch my head if the RAM I have paid for is NOT in total use! - I installed it to be used, not left empty!!!

Google's https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights makes for some interesting reading, and after reading the whole lot of the pagespeed site, one gains a greater understanding of both the load we expect our Browsers to shoulder, and the complexities of efficient website coding.

As a fun check, every now and then, I will run the same 50-odd Tabs through: Opera, IE, Safari, Firefox, Chrome and even Avant; just to compare speed, RAM usage and GDI load. (The Avant website makes various claims such as: "The increasing usage of Ajax Technology in websites causes frequent freezing or crashes for most browsers." and "As Ajax techniques become more popular, memory leak problem extensively exists in most browsers." - These claims certainly seem to be borne out in real-world experience.) The comparisons between the different Browsers still has me coming back to Opera, maybe adding a bit of physical RAM to my PC to ward off the inevitable machine upgrade.

Regardless of all said above, Webpages keep getting more and more complex, and contain ever increasing information to be downloaded, evaluated, then displayed - and we keep demanding even fancier pages - Think iGoogle vs Google (standard) - Think 15-20 seconds load time vs about 3 seconds load time! These increases mean an increased RAM usage and an increased time required to handle it all.

Sometimes, an older version of a program will work better on an older machine - Try IE9 on anything before Vista for example. In short, if your experience is better with an earlier version, save all your bookmarks, etc. and go back to whichever version works best for you.

Thx for your reply,

I understand what you mean, but the problem is that using as much memory as possible isn't quite the best thing to do - if I then try to start let's say MS Office or Photoshop, the computer is totally unusable...
Also, I know that webpages tend to get bigger and more complex, but my point was that Opera didn't use to do this. I noticed this change immediately upon upgrading so if it worked just like in 11.62 I would be happy. There must be some sort of a problem in some change done in 11.64. I will probably try downgrading to 11.62 again and wait for Opera 12 to see if that works ok.

Of course you could install the ultimate Windows upgrade - any flavour of Linux!
Opera 11.64 for Linux seems to behave nicely, or maybe Linux has better memory management?
There are even Live CD/DVD Distro's specifically designed just for high speed Net-surfing!
Many of those Live Distro's allow for customising (add Opera latest), and run amazingly fast on older PCs even when running from the CD!
Some include instructions on creating a "Live USB Key", or installing to run as a Multi-Boot option - now THAT can be handy!
Scores: = 10 , M$ =

Definately agree that Linux is far better than Win, BUT.... you know yourself why so many ppl use Win instead - it is a viscious cycle - so many ppl use it because of software/driver support etc. And the extensive support is due to the number of ppl using Win - a cycle - and same for Linux, which I think IS better and more stable than Win, but for example there is no driver for the wi-fi adapter I have on my laptop, which was one of the main reasons why I dont use at least dual boot.

The other thing is though, first of all, I know you didn't mean it like that, but it would be absurd to change from Win to Linux just because new version of your browser has a bug, which works ok in linux.... and also, rather than trying to find such a work-around solution, Opera should try to fix it directly in the program

Yes Sir! - I must agree with your "Vicious Cycle" concept, in fact, I often wish that there was "FarceBook", "Da Net", "The Web", and "The Internet", as separated networks which one selected from your gateway access.

As more people migrate to Linux platforms, manufacturers will have to provide drivers to suit. Many Routers are internally running a basic linux OS at this stage, and this will spread further as we demand greater things from our peripherals.

If the OS had a better memory management API, if Programs could actually control their own memory allocation with accuracy, if the Users were willing to only run what they were using right now, - Oh DAMMIT! - The OS we'd be using would be a (Newer and hopefully faster) flavour of DOS

Laptops pose their own set of problems, not only for Linux, but for Windows as well. Many of the lower end Laptops don't like DirectX 9 for example, and it is impossible to change your Video Card specs from that which is provided to meet the price constraints of that particular market, as well as the heat overheads involved with some of the fancier Video Cards being a real problem for Laptops.

But none of that is within Opera's area of control, and we haven't even spoken of the problems of trying to rein in the memory usage of plugins such as Java, Flash, .Net, et al.

Methinks we will always have to try new versions of many different Applications, and just go back to an earlier version if that one works best for our particular setup. Thankfully, with Opera, that process only costs a bit of time and frustration, and maybe a few cents worth of download traffic.

Btw. do u realize Opera is probably the second best example of this viscious cycle after Linux? .....
- which browser is the fastest
- which browser has Turbo allowing 3x faster webpage loading
- which browser introduced many - today absolutely common- new functions such as tabs etc.
- which browser has the most user customization options and settings.

etc etc...

and the last thing....

- which browser is being used by probably about 1-2% of computer users worldwide...

The exact same problem with the viscious cycle, although in this case it is more about the fact that due to this lack of users, not so much finances is generated and therefore less for marketing - and because there is less marketing, there is less users - and because there is less users - there is less money for marketing - cycle....

Same for linux... I wish so much i didnt have to use Win, but even if all drivers were functional I would still have to use it due to software support. For example although I would be quite happy using for example Libre Office as an alternative to MS Office and same for other alternatives, but for example my uni uses only MS Office, all my documents therefore must be handed in in this format, all computers at school have Win and I know I could open and work with these files even in Libre Office for example, but it just doesnt have all the functionality, also, I study science, so lot of excel worksheets and the formulae dont work as they should because the functions and syntax are usually different across various programs such as Excel, formatting is not always compatible, etc etc... so u see I have to use Win.... and the cycle continues... because Im like many others who also "have to" use win, software manufactures are likely to offer support only for Win, maybe iOS, but Linux would not be worth it - and that closes the viscious cycle because that makes me again continue with Win, which is supported

All of the above is (sadly) only too true, my friend.

I still run Win because so many of my friends and family regard me as "He who has the time to sort out PC problems", and they all use Win, so I must have a Win box running when they ring up with their various queries.

Mind you, I have managed to convince quite a few Uni students that they can use "Century Schoolbook" instead of the usually specified "Times New Roman", and for some "unknown" reason, their Reports seem to be more legible, and gain better marks! - So SOME things CAN be changed, slowly, and with very small steps. I run several Linux boxes, and my grandkids enjoy many retro games on a MAME multi-emulator box, so I'm trying to educate them that there is much more than just the MS product available.

I agree with you re the problems of document compatibility, just look at how few PDF Editors are available now, despite the fact that Adobe opened up the specifications enabling Royalty-Free use in 2008. The hassles with just which image format to use - PNG? JPG? GIF? APNG? Then do we include/exclude EXIF & IPTC info in JPGs or not? Is the JPG really a JPG or is it JPEG2000?

Surely we should be being taught to use many different Computing Aids, rather than just the MS offerings? - Now THAT could be an interesting "Monopoly" challenge in the Courts!!! - When we learn to drive, we might learn in a small Hyundai, get our License in a Civic, then finally drive Dad's Camry. All have totally different characteristics, and different controls, but our learned skill (driving) is transferable. So shouldn't we be teaching/learning COMPUTING rather than MICROSOFTING?

Meanwhile, we've got a LONG way off-topic, but it has been a most enjoyable exchange. I thank you, jachymczech, for your intelligent exchange, and I think that you will most likely be using Opera 11.62 for a while, as long as you don't get hit with the secure sites problems mentioned by many for Opera 11 Versions prior to 11.64.

If it works for you, why change it!

Thanx to you too for a very interesting conversation... and yes you are right... I will have to downgrade and hope the next version fixes it

Btw... the last time I "downgraded" something was when I bought my new laptop about I think 4 yrs ago and guess why? ... because it had Win Vista preinstalled and I found it so annoying and slow I rather installed XP the next day and use it until today - not ideal, but probably the best Windows option.

Put it down to the tray and enjoy the free space. I love ram and rom. I love computers! I want programming!

I did try to read in silence ,as i lost you both in many complex argumentations .

jachymczech ,
could you kindly report briefly here, if downgrading to 11.2 solves that ram problem?
(only thing i know is that i would like to use opera AND other things at the same time ,without having to close opera everytime).
__
Thing i noticed :Tried only 1 tab opened =immediately 68MB ,and it raise 68mb per-TAb added/opened .
But IF i put to Tray (without to close opera) it diminuish immediately ram usage to 6-10mb (experiment woth 1 tab opened) ,slowly raising ram usage til 20mb max (1 tab).
___
Anyway i dont want to bother anyone about it further.
I will wait for a fix in version 12, or to know if downgrading solves it ,the only thing that matters to me ,leaving the rest to experts (which i'm not)
Ty Guys.

I seem to be having the same problem after upgrading to Opera 11.64, from 11.62. I'm frequently finding now that my system grinds to a halt, if I'm using more than only 2-3 tabs. I usually don't use more than 10 tabs max. Then it takes a half hour wait for Opera (and the system mostly) to start responding again. I don't have anything else significant running along with Opera. It's pretty clear Opera is what's having the resources issue. Nothing like this would happen before I upgraded from 11.62, except for very rarely, but now happens most every day I'm browsing. My system has "only" 512MB and uses Win XP. Efficiency is one of the many reasons I'm using Opera. Oddly, Task Manager shows peak memory usage by Opera.exe as only 170MB, and 68 user objects, when having experienced another screeching-to-a-halt episode earlier (since last (re)boot). I have adjusted the memory cache to 20MB. If this doesn't improve things, I will also downgrade back to 11.62. Hopefully future versions will not continue this memory hog characteristic.

Originally posted by Baldy__Aussie:

Of course you could install the ultimate Windows upgrade - any flavour of Linux!
Opera 11.64 for Linux seems to behave nicely, or maybe Linux has better memory management?
There are even Live CD/DVD Distro's specifically designed just for high speed Net-surfing!
Many of those Live Distro's allow for customising (add Opera latest), and run amazingly fast on older PCs even when running from the CD!
Some include instructions on creating a "Live USB Key", or installing to run as a Multi-Boot option - now THAT can be handy!
Scores: = 10 , M$ =

Alright, I couldn't agree with you more about Linux and Winblows!! I've been meaning to find out about installing it! I had no intention of continuing to use Win on this thing from the start. I'd bet Linux does have a lot better memory management. Upgrading to Linux would be a good idea because of the 11.64 problem, and especially because it's a very good idea in the first place!!!

Interesting, I'd like more information about those "live" CD/DVD distributions, if you could PM/e-mail me. The multi-boot option is THE way to do it, and also what I need info on setting up.

@laughinghyena

There are so many LiveCD Distro's available for so many different purposes, from System Rescue to Gaming, Media Creation, even a specialised Distro PURELY for Web Browsing (That one can be customised to use Opera, instructions are on the BrowserLinux site.)

Google search for: LiveCD distros - Over 3,500,00 results.
Look at: http://www.livecdlist.com/
Check: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_live_CDs
and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions#Live_CDs.2FDVDs.2FUSBs

The main variants which I play with myself, are: Knoppix, Hirens, Ubuntu (various flavours), BrowserLinux, Clonezilla, DamnSmallLinux, Fuduntu, MijnPup, Mint, PartedMagic, PC Linux, PC UserOS Extreme, SlackoPuppy, Slitaz, UberStudent, Ultimate, YLMF (LinuxXP), Yoppix.

Each of these has its own strengths and weaknesses, but its all good fun. The major problem with any Linux variant is the problem of WiFi support - some cards / dongles are recognised, but not all, and not many manufacturers provide drivers for Linux for their products, so it is a case of trial-and-error for that area.

All the primary sites for each of the variants provide instructions for downloading, burning CD/DVD and most for USB creation. Many include instructions for customising the build, but that is for the more experienced users.

I recommend that you try a few from my own list, Knoppix & Hirens are great for System Repair and serve as a good intro to the whole process. Parted Magic is excellent for re-partitioning HDDs, and YLMF imitates Win XP, so the user feels more at home, although it is wisest to remember that Linux IS NOT WINDOWS and works differently!!! Ubuntu forums and slashdot.org provide a LOT of intro material, and it is wise to read A LOT of that BEFORE starting out.

Lots of luck, may you enjoy your venture into the world of Linux.

OK, well what I did for now is installed not the original 11.62, but rather the "experimental" Opera Next 12.0 and this one seems to be working ok. So I will wait for another upgrade, then upgrade the original 11.64 and see what happens.

thanks, i also installed "Next". Plus ,i had problems with 11.64 no loading pages telling me "network problem" ,where opera Next or firefox loaded it correctly .Thumb down for 11.64 for me ,definetely.

I have this same problem.

Windows 7
2 gb of ram
Opera 11.64

Most of the time I only have Opera open. I mainly use this computer to surf the internet,
so I know for sure it's Opera and especially flash-based websites (youtube, tinychat, etc.)
that's eating up the ram, and I hardly ever have many tabs open. Maybe 2 or 3.

Sometimes the free ram gets so low that I have restart my PC as it causes it to be unusable.
Closing Opera and trying to recycle or clear the ram up to have more memory free does
nothing unless I restart my PC.

So another interesting fact - it seems like this is not only a problem of ppl using win XP as I previously thought and also, it seems like it is a major bug, which should be taken into account by the developers, because it is very annoying and I must say that unless this is fixed in the next version, I would have to change browser - and I really wouldnt want to do that after so many "happy yrs" with opera, but I would have no other option, this is such a big problem that it is unusable.

@jeffyork

You've hit the nail on the head! -

Originally posted by jeffyork:

... especially flash-based websites (youtube, tinychat, etc.) that's eating up the ram, ... ... Closing Opera and trying to recycle or clear the ram up to have more memory free does nothing unless I restart my PC.

A whole lot of stuff which is NOT under the control of Opera!

The multitude of "Custom" Flash-based Players have always caused problems, and as we see more and more of this type of content, so the problems become even greater. Maybe Opera Next has instigated "allocate - a - huge - amount - more - RAM - and - then - release - it - immediately" cycles to force Windows to flush old Flash and Java from memory, but whatever, it seems to me that as we demand more from our Web content, then we also have to accept the higher demands on our equipment. - Or perhaps we shall never really be happy with what we have, and we will keep on wanting to watch TV on our PCs, make eBay bids on our Mobile 'Phones, and expect the family Hyundai to cart the load of a Mack truck with the comfort of a Rolls-Royce!

Opera still remains my Browser of choice, and over the last several months, I have checked the PCs of many friends to find that although they "only have Opera running" they really have a lot of other stuff running in the background, from the one which many forget: "The Sidebar", to Messenger type programs, Torrent streams and a lot of other stuff that they thought was shut down. Many Apps just minimise to the Notification area, still using memory and resources. Even Task Manager itself uses over 2 MB RAM / 100 User Objects / 120 GDI Objects to tell me what everything else is using!

Sixty tabs spread over two instances of Opera are currently consuming 602 MB RAM / 368 User Objects / 1005 GDI Objects, and the System is still responsive, but if I open "Word" or IE, then everything slows down - as the User & GDI Objects go skyward. The same happens if I open three more tabs with lots of Java and Flash animation. Those drive Processor Usage, User and GDI Objects high very quickly but then can I really watch three videos at the same time?

When it really boils down, it's just a case of whatever suits you best.

Hmm, I must disagree with you - yes you are right that flash consumes a lot, BUT:

1. as you can see from people's reactions - it happens even when I have just 1 or 2 tabs opened and basically the RAM usage increases up and up until the entire capacity is reached

2. this was NOT a problem in 11.62 - and the websites were still the same.....

3. other browsers dont do this in such an extent - they of course can also use a lot of RAM on flash-based websites, but this is different, they work just like 11.62 did

My point is - there is something in 11.64 which causes this - some change which makes these problems and therefore the developers should definately look into it and make sure it works as normal again in the next version.

Just ran into the same problem today playing a flash game, only that 1 tab open and the RAM usage shot up to over 1.5 GB.

@jachymczech

AH!, My friend, The websites may be the same, but how many "Updates" have there been for "Flash" and "Java" over the last few months?

And yes, I agree with you that 11.64 SEEMS to be at the root of it all - but the change-logs reveal very little to blame it on, the "Problem" seems to appear with SOME, but NOT ALL, users, and there is no apparent commonality to give the developers a clue to start from.

It could even be from a weird USB Driver, or a Printer Driver, maybe all the "Problems" appear on Systems where the Users each have the same Mobile Phone Software installed - we just cannot say for sure, and until we can give the developers some VERY complete System Specifications for the problem instances, we are stuck with just guesswork, both for the developers, and for us! - We GUESS that it is an Opera fault, as that seems the logical conclusion, but so much happens behind-the-scenes in Windows, that we cannot be certain.

I have two identical old Laptops, identical Specs., identical RAM etc. - one handles Win 7 and Opera 11.64 without any problems at all, while the other will not even boot Win 7 - in fact, it was such a pain that I installed Linux on it and use the latest Opera for Linux with no problems - go figure!

These Forums exist to allow us as Users, to share our experiences, share our collective wisdom when problems arise, and to re-assure each other that we are not going crazy, but others have similar problems to our own - Maybe even one or two solutions if we are lucky!

If we can isolate a Bug, and provide FULL DETAILS, SPECIFICATIONS etc., and also provide sufficient data to allow the developers to duplicate the problem, then we can report the bug in the area provided for that purpose. Until then, and in these Forums, we are talking amongst Users, not directly to the developers, and our complaints about various "Problems" are NOT brought directly to the attention of the Dev. Team.

Let us all look forward to whatever advances and developments future versions of Opera bring us, and remember that there are STILL some sites out there using such horrible coding that they will ONLY work in IE6, and many which will only partially work in anything other than IE. Now THAT is something to complain about! (To the website authors)

I agree with that and since I have done some programming in the past I know exactly what you are talking about. But, it is basically absolutely unrealistic to try to figure out what do the users experiencing this have in common.... however, there is a way of getting around this - can be time-consuming but works...: go back to 11.62 and start changing things changed in 11.64 and wait until the problem arises and then you at least know which change is causing the problem. And yes, flash etc. also undergo updates but that has nothing to do with this in this particular case, because if I use 11.62 again - without reverting to the original flash which I had when I was using the 11.62 - it works fine.

Only too true, my friend. 'Tis unrealistic indeed, to try and sort out what everyone experiencing this has in common, most especially when one would also have to take into account such other variables as customised js, customised keyboard and mouse setups, skins/themes, plus all the variations possible with layouts! Is it not often the case that "fixing" one bug exposes another? - At least it often was in my experience.

Maybe if we were part of the Dev. Team, and privy to the changes made, we could study the logic and timing, hopefully coming up with a cure. - But we are not the Doctor, and must simply try to describe the symptoms as best we can. - Like the "Common" Cold, we all have our preferred ways of dealing with problems, and even have different ideas of what constitutes a problem. What is tolerable for one User may be extremely annoying to the next.

Who knows? - Maybe 11.62 and 11.64 call Flash from locations just different enough to make Windows' Memory Management get confused with one and not the other, and then only in certain conditions. Lord knows, that sort of scenario happens often enough. Fortunately, with Opera, we have the opportunity to switch back to an older version if that suits us better, without breaking the OS or influencing the behaviour of other parts of our systems.

Yes true, but - keep in mind that it is ok now - there isnt much of a difference between 11.62 and 11.64, but if the bug isnt fixed that would mean I would never again be able to upgrade - and that is a serious problem (security, new features etc.).

Your reply however also brings me to another question which is - you've mentioned some thread used for bug reporting, dont you think it would be worth posting a link to this thread there? It seems like many people are experiencing this and it definately is a serious problem (not to mention all the other less experienced users who also have this problem, but all they notice is a slow computer and have no clue why or just dont say anything).

P.S. I would like to appologize in general for all the mistakes I make - English is not my first language

Don't apologise, jachymczech, your English is very good - better than many posts which you might read in some of these Forums!

Read the Guidelines for filing good bug reports at http://www.opera.com/support/bugs/guidelines/ then follow the link at the bottom of that page to file a bug report. Do keep in mind:

Originally posted by Opera on their Guideline Pages:

Frequently Reported Bugs

If your bug is being discussed in the Opera community forums, newsgroups, or mailing lists, a report has probably already been filed. Additional reports will then serve no purpose, as they will simply be marked as duplicates.

The usual sequence of events seems to be:

• User installs new version.
• User observes problem / has issues.
• User selects one of the alternatives:

1. Cuss a lot and stop using Opera.
2. Cuss a lot but keep on using Opera.
3. Cuss, make observations and then make Bug Report.
4. Grit teeth and put up with it until new release.
5. Say "Bother" and check Forums to see if any other User has found a solution.

We are lucky! - We've added a new alternative:
f. Users check Forums and enjoy exchange about possible causes, potential fixes, alternate philosophies,
and somewhat esoteric concepts, thus enjoyably passing the time whilst awaiting next release.

LOL

Well I've experimented a bit to see what the problem could be.

Right now I've been on for 2 hours, and I only have 30% free ram remaining,
as opposed to 75-80% when I turned on my computer and opened up Opera.

I also haven't used youtube or played any videos during this session,
or went to any sites that are heavy on flash or java.

Still Opera is eating up my ram.

I disabled my Opera extensions, but that didn't do anything to fix the issue.
I set the memory cache to 4mb and disk cache to 20mb, but that didn't help.
I turned off java, javascript, and plugins, but that didn't help.

I looked at the resource monitor and Opera is hogging up all the ram.

I also used IE (the most disliked browser ever) yesterday and didn't have any issues with
it hogging my ram, even though I was basically playing youtube videos on it
for a few hours, my ram usage still stayed above 60%.

I love Opera, but this bug needs to be fixed. I refuse to update to Opera 12, because I use Unite often.

Originally posted by myself over a few posts:

Windows allocates RAM dynamically, swapping inactive Applications out to the paging file(s) because the more RAM available for the ACTIVE Application, the faster that Application will respond, and Win 7 handles this a bit more aggressively than "good old XP" - which is why Apps seem faster (although Windows Explorer and Indexing is a whole 'nother story!!!). ...

... To my understanding, it is far less a problem with RAM management, but rather a GDI management problem. The GDI POOL IS LIMITED and once that limit is reached, weird things happen - Fonts go crazy, Menus get lost, the System slows down etc. ...

... Start "Task Manager" and click the Process tab, then click the "View" menu and then click "Select Columns" and tick "User Objects" and "GDI Objects" then click "OK". After making sure that you've selected "Show processes from all users." You can keep an eye on just how high the usage goes. It is quite interesting to watch how these increase enormously with JS -
Watch not only your Browser, but watch for the JAVA.EXE entry - if I go to http://www.java.com/en/download/testjava.jsp and run the test, OVER 700 GDI objects are created, and they DON'T release quickly when you close the page.
Comparing IE and Opera with the same set of windows can be fun! With the same 16 sites open, Opera [as one Process] showing 121 User Objects & 604 GDI Objects; while 8 IE processes total 1,553 User Objects and 1,472 GDI Objects!!! - Who is the greedy little beast then? ...

... Windows (all flavours) is DESIGNED to use as much RAM as it can, since RAM is faster than swapping to HDD, and RAM usage is not a real problem, I only start to scratch my head if the RAM I have paid for is NOT in total use! - I installed it to be used, not left empty!!!

Just for fun, I've pulled half my RAM so I'm on 2GB at the moment. With 63 Tabs spread over 2 instances of Opera, it is using 36% of my RAM, 276 User Objects & 643 GDI Objects.
I forgot an old tweak which may have quite some impact! I must admit that almost immediately after (re-)installing Windows, I DO regularly implement a tweak from Mike Dodd - Increasing User Handle and GDI Handle Limits - found at http://weblogs.asp.net/mikedopp/archive/2008/05/16/increasing-user-handle-and-gdi-handle-limits.aspx where you will find comments to the effect that:

Originally posted by Mike Dodd on his site:

Have you ever been working with a good number of applications at once? Are you a naturally born multi tasker? Alright, answer me this - who has had Windows buckle under the weight of all of these applications and display error messages stating that the system is out of memory or out of resources, buttons and menus do not work correctly, or you get an error sound but no message on the screen? I’ve hit this numerous times, to the point that I’ve lost work because of it…

Sometimes this happens even when you have a lot of system memory (RAM) still available. For instance, open up Internet Explorer and hold Ctrl+N to open up as many Internet Explorer windows as you can before menus, icons, and menus start displaying incorrectly, disappear, buttons aren’t clickable, etc. Close a few out and check your Windows Task Manager in the “Performance” tab, I bet you will find that a lot of your Physical Memory is still available. ...
... and ...
“Okie-dokie, if I have all of this memory still available, why is Windows saying I’m out of memory and out of system resources!?”

Simple. You have hit the “user handle” or “GDI handle” limit in Windows. This limit is there for two reasons:

* Leaky applications or faulty code & malware can’t easily crash the system by attempting to overflow the system with GDI handles, making everything un-usable until a reboot is performed.
* To prevent a user from opening up more applications than the system can handle.

If you have 1 gigabyte (or 1024MB) of RAM or higher, the default User Handle and GDI Handle limits can be pretty restrictive when running a large working set of applications that demand the most from your system and tax it heavily.

If you decide to use his tweaks:

1. Read it ALL very carefully!
2. READ IT ALL AGAIN!!!
3. BE VERY CAREFUL - if you decide to play about with your Registry - it could have disastrous consequences.
4. Check the instructions AGAIN!
5. BACKUP YOUR REGISTRY.
6. Perform the Tweaks.
7. Reboot and test.

DO NOT MODIFY THE REGISTRY UNLESS YOU ARE 100% CONFIDENT OF YOUR ABILITIES IN THIS AREA.
DO NOT CONFUSE AMBITION WITH ABILITY!

Is there anyway to take the load off the ram being used and put the load on the CPU? My CPU is only being used 3-5% when I'm just browsing the web with Opera, it goes up to 15-25% when watching a flash video.

Let's clarify that one a bit!

CPU does the processing, executing instructions upon data.
RAM is a temporary storage for both instructions and the data upon which to execute the instructions.
RAM "remembers" whereas CPU "thinks"
Mutually exclusive.

Short answer = NO

Visually: CPU = Blades on Food Processor. RAM = Container which holds food to be processed.

ok think i can leave mine about
Reverted back to 11.62,problems of CRASHES ,freeze and High memory gone (12 tabs ,450Mb not 400-800 ) .

Rest of technical stuff spoken above i dont get it much ,
but does not matter asw us definetely an opera 11.64 problem for me .

hope future release will get it right.
Thank you guys for the nice tips

12 is available.Hope problems are gone,cant test right now myself for a week at least i believe.
if problems persists ,could you kindly report here ?Thanks guys

hello, I'd too be interested in a comparison of ram usage between 12 final (please indicate built) and 11.6x, especially 11.62.
I may be doing some primitive ram comparison tests in a week or two, but i would greatly appreciate your results. i will be posting mine.
(my test situation: start opera, load 30 tabs of various contents, check ram usage (after defragmenting via meminfo - i do so before and after tab load and note down all four values (value before test - value after defrag - value after tabs load - value after defrag ).
then repeat with different opera version.
i will also measure speed for all tabs to load.
stupid post of mine, telling you what i will do instead of posting results.

@matthias73423 et al;
I've been running Opera12 Build 1467 for a few days now, and it is CERTAINLY perceptibly faster and smoother in operation. I see far fewer Graphics "hiccups" and short-term freezes than for 11.6x. Moving plugins to their own management exec. has apparently made quite a significant difference to both stability and seems to have reined-in a bit of GDI, User and Heap usage.

Totaling the RAM, GDI, User, Heap Resource usage for BOTH "opera.exe" & "opera_plugin_wrapper.exe" with V12.00 b1467 and comparing with the old V11.64 under the same loading - i.e. the same set of Tabs open, V12.00 ACTUALLY USES SLIGHTLY MORE RESOURCES IN TOTAL! - But since it is spread, then Opera actually gets a higher percentage of CPU cycles overall, with the two Processes each getting a bite at the cherry.

I have observed that the plugin_wrapper uses about 2% of opera's RAM usage, 10% of the GDI Resources, 25% of the User Resources, and 50% of the Thread load imposed by opera main. - This fluctuates, of course, but those figures would seem to be a fair average for my experience so far.

Loading SEEMS to be much faster, but I get the feeling that this is due mainly to a change in loading sequence rather than other influences. - The focused Tab certainly is populated MUCH faster than was the case with V11.64, but watching the progress of the background Tabs, it appears that TOTAL LOADING has improved by about 5% - still a significant and useful improvement!

All up? - V12.00 b1467 IS A KEEPER, at least for me. - I now proceed to remove 11.64 from use.

Thank you for reporting.I was more interested in 11.62 vs 12.00 actually (as per all the thread about).
Certainly you provided full infos about ,looks ok for ma
anyway nothing against to install 12 in a different location to try both and compare later on .
Great to read that you share your tips Baldy ,much apreciated

Actually, I think I figured out when the problem with the RAM usage arises even in 11.64 and 12.... yesterday I was playing with it a bit and I think that the problem is not tabs - but windows.... when I was originally talking about having just a few tabs opened and having so much memory taken, I didnt realize that I actually usually have lets say 3-4 tabs only, but maybe 3 windows and I have then usually parallel next to each other. I have a widescreen monitor and often need two webpages displayed at the same time. And it seems like the moment I open more windows, the program starts taking that enormous amount of memory and gets slow.... so maybe even the original problem was rather with more windows than tabs. This new version 12 so far seems faster, but with more windows also gets much slower and I havent had enough opportunity to test whether it is at least better than 11.64...

@jachymczech;
Hello again my friend! I routinely run with dual Monitors, extending the desktop nicely. When I want two or more Tabs side by side, I have a few JS Macros as Bookmarklets, ready to position things where I want them, said bookmarklets are placed as bookmarks on the bookmarks bar, and are given a nice short nickname for easy access. (Be aware that the figures don't always put things where you expect, so there is a bit of tweaking needed)

Examples:
javascript:window.resizeTo(590,960);window.moveTo(0,0); Nickname "left"
will set the active Tab as approx half screen left hand side;
javascript:window.resizeTo(590,960);window.moveTo(600,0); Nickname "right"
will set the active Tab as approx half screen right hand side;
javascript:window.resizeTo(824,652);window.moveTo(10,10); Nickname "small"
will set the active Tab as approx 800 x 600 viewport, upper left;
javascript:window.resizeTo(1048,820);window.moveTo(10,10); Nickname "big"
will set the active Tab as approx 1024 x 768 viewport, upper left;
All based on a 1280 x 1024 screen resolution and Tabs on the right hand side.

Now a "left" into the address slot and hit "Enter" - Voila! That Tab now is a column at Left-Screen. (or click the "left" Bookmark). And so on. These may all be modified to suit, added to, whatever.

Another trick I use is to size the Opera WINDOW to be very close to Full-Screen, then drag the left side border right across my second Monitor (I have my Primary in front of me, and Secondary on my Left, and have them defined that way in Display Customisations), - Now I have enough screen real estate to throw four Tabs open side by side if I want/need to! - CAVEAT: Do NOT click Maximise!!! - the window will fill ONLY ONE SCREEN! - Then you can surprise onlookers by clicking Restore Down and end up with the double Screen coverage again - F11 will use just one Monitor also, reverting on the second press, - the effect can be hilarious if you have an audience of know-it-alls! - Displayed Tabs can get "Lost", hiding in the screen area which is displayed with the larger set-up. Just don't get caught out and have a Tab which you can't get at! - Cascade them or set as "small" or "big" before you close down, and DON'T have the last Tab to be closed sitting on the right half of the extended view, or you'll be cursing when you start up again, or re-open a Tab which is off-screen!

That's how I have MULTIPLE TABS in view, but only ONE WINDOW!

Thanks for your tips, but this doesnt really solve my problem. I really do need more windows. When I dont I also use cascaded windows, but usually I need an extra window - he is why:
For example I often open various webpages and have many tabs and meanwhile I have lets say a video playing in a different window. This allows me to see the video all the time while using the other window in the other half of the monitor for for example finding info regarding the video etc. If I had the video as an extra tab and was reading and using the other half for surfing, then opening a new tab would mean I wouldnt see the video any more... I know its difficult to describe what I mean, but I hope you understand what I mean... if I had a cascaded window that I wouldnt be able to open, close, etc. the other tabs and have that one separately.... if for example I put the video on the left side as a cascaded tab, the webpage on the right and I open a new tab, it opens full screen and I cannot see the video any more...

in other words, it would only be possible if I could fix that one particular tab as a cascaded tab on one side and have all the new tabs opening just on the other side - which I think is not possible in opera, because the new tab is always maximized

@jachymczech;
Now I understand what you mean - But you still could use the Multi-Tab set-up for other than Video Tabs - just remember that Opera will normally open each new tab at the same size as the last one which was closed.

Regarding the Video Window - on those few occasions when I need to do similar, I use Avant to run the Vid., and Opera for all the rest. There are quite a few lightweight Browsers out there, most of which do not suit my use as a main Browser, but are quite handy for specialised single-site use. Don't really need all the Bells & Whistles to handle a single site at a time, so the dual-Browser method works for me when I really need it.

OK, but it's not just videos, in other words - I just often need to "work" with one window so have it on top all the time and meanwhile use the other window for browsing using tabs, etc - which of course is solved by opening new window of opera... a

the reason I wrote it was that this seems to be the problem of the 11.64 and possibly also 12 - not many tabs, but many windows is what takes up the memory and this was ok in 11.62

OK, I'll have a play around using two or three instances of Opera for a few days, and see if I can dig out an old XP machine and have a play around with V11.62, V11.64 & V12.00 - That'll take a week or so, but this has piqued my curiosity.

I have the suspicion that a combination of GDI, User & Desktop Heap resource usage data will show the differences, and shed some light on what is happening that is different between the three versions.

Let us hope that we can find some logical reason for this problem, and then attack that cause to develop a solution.

Great

Looking forward to the results of your analysis Unfortunately I cannot do much testing right now as I have my state exam (graduation) in 3 days All my testing consists of using Opera in general for study purposes Hopefully if I pass I will then have some time to play around with it too

For me, Opera 12.00 is a definite no-go too. It's even worse than 11.64. Page loading is not improved, and now the never-ending loading doesn't happen just occasionally, but almost always! Requiring constant manual monitoring and hitting Esc to stop when page loads are done, which is quite intolerable. Pages often don't work correctly because of this. It seems somewhat less sluggish than 11.64, would be the only improvement I noted.

As for 11.64, I had adjusted the memory cache down to 20MB (and still the same for 12), and did notice no further screeching to a halt of the system due to Opera (of course I also was trying to use no more than 2-3 tabs at a time). I don't use more than one window at once, usually, or for very long if I do. But, it was still very slow and fairly often it would fail to load a page at all (requiring Esc, and then reload to get it to load).

I've reverted back to 11.62, and am done doing updates unless there is some reason to believe a future version may work with XP on older PCs.

I think Baldy_Aussie may well be right the issue is much more than just Opera. Windoze is a lousy OS, always has been and always will be. Making well functioning applications on a poor OS must not be easy, and certainly not a reasonable expectation. The solution is simple: time to switch to Linux!!! Now I just gotta find some time.

@jachymczech
Although it is NOT an Opera based solution, sometimes you just use two different tools for similar jobs.

One VERY possible solution to your dilemma would be to try Avant Browser from:
http://www.avantbrowser.com/

From their site:
Video Sniffer
Avant Browser can detect the videos in the web page you are browsing, and let you download them with just one click.

Split View
Split view adds to Avant Browser’s multitasking functionality by providing an easy way to view multiple different web sites at the same time. Split view adds another dimension to Avant Browser’s customizable interface layout. Watching online videos while reading the web news is a prime example of how Avant Browser’s split view interface can be used.

Detached Always on Top Browser Window
Detached browser window can be set on top of all other Windows applications, you can drag the tab button out of the tab bar to detach a browser window. This allows you to watch YouTube or chat with friends while you are working on other applications, like Word, AutoCAD etc.

Now, those features in particular would be welcome additions to the Opera stable - but only for newer PCs (Sorry 'bout that laughinghyena!) The Split View is VERY useful, as is the Detached Floating Window - useful innovations indeed. - Just run Avant on one Monitor for Videos or whatever, and Opera for the other stuff. At least until we get this built in to Opera.

@laughinghyena
See my earlier post (way up top somewhere!) regarding LiveCD distro's of Linux - some may even be set up on USB Keys, allows for "Try before install" - That's the method which uses least time...