Open Web Korea!

Open Web Korea!

This is to introduce an exciting development in Korea regarding web standard compliance.

Korea is a rapidly progressing country in the area of IT industry. But the fast growth has had its problems. There has been very little awareness of web standard and most web pages (and 100% of government-run websites) are MS optimized. See a brief description of the situation at Mr Storey's blog: http://my.opera.com/dstorey/blog/show.dml/266054

A group of users in Korea finally took a stand and decided to tackle this problem from a legal point of view. We feel that there has been enough of "genteel" campaigning. Our view is that there are legal means to enforce standard compliance for "public" websites.

We also take the view that wide-spread existence of websites which ignore web standard poses a serious obstacle for visually impaired persons. Moreover, smooth and seamless integration of mobile contents and web contents would be impossible if web pages do not observe standard coding and tagging conventions. The present situation where many web pages use proprietary techniques which work only for a particular web browser, would turn out to be disasterous for developpers of open-source embedded solutions for mobile devices (as these devices are about to be integrated with the internet).

Why hasn't anyone approached this problem from a legal point of view until now? I suppose this is a fast-moving front where very few lawyers have the necessary technical expertise to realise that there are legal problems. Technical experts have always felt that there is a serious problem which threatens fair competition; but few of them had the legal expertise to realise that the solution lies not only in technical development, but also in legal recourse.

I wish to draw your attention to the following website: http://openweb.or.kr/1/indexE.html

This is no longer an issue which only affects the so-called minority users (non-MS products users). This has now become an issue which threatens viability and competitiveness of numerous embedded solution providers who are engaged in a race to "port" web browsing solutions to mobile devices, TV, set-top boxes and numerous other appliances which will soon be connected to the internet.

Start a parallel movement in your country!

I hope to see many of you in this discussion...

I watched the video on your site a day or two ago. It was very informative, and it's great to see that something is happening!

Do you know if Mozilla and Apple (Safari) are planning to expand "evangelization" efforts in Korea, or if such efforts from these companies are already in progress?

Well, how do I start a parellel movement in Singapore?

Ace Jack Neo/
Here are three simple steps:

1. Write up concise but persuasive arguments setting forth why standard compliance is important. Make sure that this is not just to remedy some end-users' inconvenience and grievances. You must explain that your local software industry's survival is at stake.

2. Find effective places to post your call for action. Mac user groups, Firefox and Opera user forums are important because they have a large audience. Linux user groups alone will not be enough to provide the critical mass to get things take off. But you should post at all these sites because once things get going, you need active participation from technically competent users and developpers. Frustrated end-users alone will not be enough. Your group must be equipped with superior technical expertise to overawe bureaucrats.

3. Once participants start to gather together, you must act responsibly and honourably. Your only asset is ethical rightness of your demands. The other sides have all the money, power and institutional backing to their side. Eventually, your local press might report your movement (which is what happened in our case). Ensuring that you and your group have thoroughly respectable motives is very important to win sympathetic press coverage.

There are a couple of finer points: First, it is important not to allow your movement to be presented as "anti-american" or "anti-MS". Your aim is to achieve fair competition and free trade. These are the values passionately endorsed by all OECD member states, including the US. Second, at some stage, local or international software companies - whose legitimate interests coincide with the aim of your movement - might take an interest in your movement and wish to participate. As long as these companies conduct themselves honourably and openly, there is no need to shun away from them. But you must ensure that you and your industry partners fully understand each other and make intelligent decisions as to the right mode and format of cooperation.

haavard/
Mozilla Korea Forum ( http://forums.mozilla.or.kr/viewforum.php?f=9 ) led by one of the maintainers of mozilla project, Mr Seokchan Yun (channy(at)mozilla.or.kr), has been tirelessly campaigning for the past several years. My posting first got noticed there. The modest success which we have so far is largely due to Mr Yun's ceaseless efforts and commitment. However, as in many other countries, the campaigning alone has not been able to produce any "noticeable" improvements. I decided to change the tack and approach the matter from a legal point of view and placed the lawsuit on the table as an option. We now have some firing power, as it were.

Mac user groups' contributions have been sporadic. But they succeeded in keeping the fire smoldering. Probably the biggest Mac user group in Korea, Appleforum ( http://www.appleforum.com/ ) call themselves, "a forum for the grieving Mac users in Korea"... You get the picture, I suppose.

Thanks!

I'm 14. However, I have developed extraordinary writing prowess, so step 1 will not be too difficult.

Perhaps you could help recommend some good forums for step 2? I don't like to sign up for hundreds of websites - there are only 5-10 websites I use regularly. I use throwaway accounts for other websites when trying them out.

Step 3 will be getting into the news. That will be a little harder, but I am not alien to the press.

I'll get to work.

Ace Jack Neo/
You don't need to post at "hundreds of websites"! I posted at KLDP (Korean Linux Documentation Project), KMUG (Korean Mac User Group) and Mozilla Forum for Korean Users. And the rest was done by users in those three websites and "hundreds of bloggers" started to propagate it.

If you have some difficulty (due to age limit, perhaps) signing up for certain websites where you wish to post, please let me know. I could sign up and post it for you. But those three Korean websites all had a BBS where guests can post. That's what I did. It was effortless.

There is a logo (one of the pin button designs we used during LinuxWorld Expo 2006) for Open Web Korea. It is here: http://openweb.or.kr/

The author generously allowed this design to be used freely without any restrictions. So feel free to use it. If you wish to modify it, the original PSD file can be downloaded from http://lovesera.com/tmp/openweb_pin.zip

There are a couple of banner designs which you may also freely use (obviously!) to put a link to http://openweb.or.kr/1/indexE.html

http://korea.gnu.org/openweb/1/openweb_banner_88x31_wb.png
http://korea.gnu.org/openweb/1/openweb_button_80x15.png

I mean, how do you suggest I find appropriate websites to post in? Should I post on Singapore websites, if possible?

Ace Jack Neo/
In the country where you want changes to be made. Also, in the country where you can organise a movement.

Yesterday, for example, Open Web Group in France ( http://openweb.eu.org/ ) expressed its great pleasure to discover the launch of Open Web Korea. This, in spite of the World Cup football match between the two countries! We are sure to cooperate, not in the football pitch, but out in the Open Web. http://standblog.org/blog/2006/06/19/93114832-bienvenue-a-openweb-coree

Who knows, there may be Open Web Japan, Open Web Singapore, Open Web US...

I will try to set up Open Web Singapore.

Do you think I should set up an Open Web group on Google Groups - then when I post, ask anyone interested to join the group - in order to have all the Open Web discussion in one place? It would be easier to keep track of that way, as I am a regular user of Google Groups.

Also, do you think I should get the government involved? It would be a huge boost to have the local newspaper's Click section feature Opera. In addition, if the Ministry of Education here would install Opera on all school computers, and teach about it...

Ace Jack Neo/
Good news.

We do have Open Web Group at google. http://groups.google.com/group/open-web I chose google group mainly because I need to send out large number of emails. We now have about 800 participants. SMTP servers usually limit the maximum number of recipients to 30 or 50. But I did not like the idea of appearing implicitly to suggest to any of our participants that signing up for google is required or even recommended. So I have two mailing lists: 1) google group-mail for those who prefer it and 2) my own list for those who agree to be on it.

But if you have your own mailing list, you must be EXTREMELY careful not to accidentally disclose it to anyone. You should always make sure that bcc (blind carbon copy) is sent to those who are on your list. If you put your list in the To: or Cc: field of your outgoing mail, ALL your recipients will be able to see your full list. That would be a disaster. Although all of them participated voluntarily in your movement, they do not necessarily want their email address to be displayed to hundreds of other participants in this manner. They all trusted you, not each other. If you are capable of setting up a website with RSS feed, this headache can be neatly dealt with. And this is what is going to happen with Open Web Korea. (One of our participants is working on this.)

Regarding Opera, hmm... Open Web Korea does not work for Opera. Nor does Opera work for Open Web Korea. We may decide to work together to achieve what I perceive to be our common objectives: an open and fair internet where users can freely choose software on the basis of merits. I find it unjust that you are forced to use a software simply because it is shoved down to your throat by a company who happens to dominate the market. Perhaps Opera might feel the same way. That's all.

I post to Google Groups using the web interface. So don't worry about me disclosing the mailing list to anyone.

I almost joined your group, but the one problem is that I can't read Korean.

I think Open Web should go international. Then users can help the Open Web in their country. For example, I could help with Open Web Singapore. You could help with Open Web Korea.

I think you misread my other question. I was asking whether I should get my government involved.

Oh, the government... It depends whether your government is like mine. If it is, then you probably have no choice but to get it "involved" in one way or another. Have a look at the "Korean Saga": http://korea.gnu.org/openweb/1/saga.html

This may also be of some interest: http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=1613586

I'll try to get into the papers first. That will get the government involved.

I might consider writing a letter to the Ministry of Education, asking them to make Opera the default browser on school computers. That will certainly Open The Web! I'll try and gather hundreds of signatures, especially among technically competent students.4

Ace Jack Neo/
The question of "default browser" is different from the question of problematic websites which discriminate certain browsers.

Open Web Korea does not support any particular browser. We demand website operators to do the same. There is no ground for us to support any particular products. It is something that must be left entirely to each consumer's (end-user's) free choice.

So I should write a letter to the government asking them to make the government websites websites standards-compliant?

If other browsers - such as Opera - provide stiff competition to IE (and Firefox), webmasters will be more inclined to Open The Web.

Originally posted by Ace Jack Neo:

So I should write a letter to the government asking them to make the government websites standards-compliant?

Obviously.

Opera's effort to "open the web" is not just for Opera. It is for everyone's benefit. This is where Opera's and Open Web Korea's aims coincide.

The computing world has so far been divided between open-source software and proprietary software. A subtle, and yet meaningful "re-alignment" is necessary. The new divide should be between those who thrive in the "open web" and those who thrive in a "closed web". Mozilla (Firefox) should embrace and welcome Opera's real contributions to "open the web". Mozilla has been energetically campaigning for standard compliance; Opera has put in real money to make the difference. Open source community should not, and I think does not, claim to be the sole standard bearer for the honourable cause of open and fair internet. Nor is Opera the only company with legitimate business reasons to support the open web. Countless other companies, such as Apple, Nokia, Orange, etc. etc., are in the same position. They should all rally forces with open source community in order to achieve the "open web".

So the new front will be drawn between all those who support the "open web" and a single company which is trying to lock itself in a "closed web" together with its numerous clients.

I think we do stand a good chance of winning if the front is re-defined in this way.

Thanks for the insight.

I think that Mozilla, Opera and others should co-operate to Open the Web. Co-ordinated efforts have an increased chance of succeeding as compared to indivivual efforts by each company. For example, many Opera fans have shown displeasure at websites which support browser discrimination. The problem is that we are not working together to combat the problem. Hence someone else suggested O Day, which is a co-ordinated assault of telephone calls to companies which practise browser discrimination, such as Yahoo! and Google.

In addition, I agree that the constant battle between proponents of open-source software and proprietary software is distracting us from the common goal of Opening the Web. Opera may be a proprietary browser, but it still supports web standards and efforts to Open the Web. In my opinion, if there is an open standard, such as the W3C standards, regardless of whether software is open-source or proprietary, it can still adhere to the open standards. All browser vendors should co-operate against Microsoft, in order to Open the Web, regardless of whether they produce open-source or proprietary browsers.

I will plan my letter to the government asking them to make their websites standards-compliant. However, I believe that the government can do more to promote choice, besides making their websites standards-compliant. This is why I was considering roping in the Ministry of Education.

Efforts to Open the Web will be more successful if Internet Explorer faces more intense competition from competing browsers. This will encourage webmasters to Open the Web. Currently, Mozilla has been involved in various campaigns to Open the Web. The result is a Web that is open only to IE and Firefox. If we can support and promote other browsers such as Opera, IE will face more competitors besides Firefox. And webmasters who find difficulty supporting and testing code in four or five major browsers will decide to code for standards. This will further increase the competition and Open the Web for browsers outside the top four or five. In addition, my suggestions regarding Opera are intended to raise awareness among the less technically inclined (Besides Joe Average, I am talking about people like me, who know a fair bit about computers and have slight programming experience).

Currently, there is a vicious cycle. For example, since Windows has the lion's share of the market, many programmers and game developers release their programs for Windows only, leaving out Mac and Linux users. This reinforces the demand for Windows and increases its market share. The same applies for browsers. We should encourage people to adopt other browsers, as this will break the vicious cycle for browsers.