Detach command not working properly

Detach command not working properly

In Opera 9.23 you could detach a page by dragging its tab from the toolbar to the Windows taskbar. Alternatively you could add the Detach command to Opera's menu system like I did. This would open a window by itself that was isolated from the rest of the browser. In Opera 9.50 Alpha it works the same as selecting Open in New Window from the Link Popup Menu. Can anyone confirm?
Opera 9.50 Alpha
Windows XP SP2

Confirmed.

Originally posted by Turin:

This would open a window by itself that was isolated from the rest of the browser.

If you don't know what you're doing, you can detach a tab, close the main window and leave yourself stuck. The bonus of the new way is that it prevents that from happening and provides a better experience for those new to Opera.

Of course, you know what you're doing so that doesn't apply to you.

Yes but now there is no way to detach a tab. It was useful for chat and when you want to read a web page in full view (I know about full screen and custom buttons..)

It was also useful for Windows or Transfers windows when I had a large amount of sites open. Why not just disable Detach by default and allow it to be switched on by those who have a use for it.

I would like to know if there is some preference/option that can re-enable this way also.

I use it for viewing a flash video is a small window.

+1
I used this feature extensively and would really like a way to get it back.
It's also great with multiple monitors you can set it up so a detached tab automatically goes to the other monitor.

It would be nice to allow us mac users to detach a page in this new way at least, instead of making us open a new window and dragging the tab there.

In Linux, Detach now creates a new window with the tab in it (that is, with menu bar, hotlist, etc). The new window is the same size as the original Opera window, not the size of the tab, and the tab is automatically maximized.

up.

still wondering if there is some option that can re-enable this functionality.

+1 to re-enable, I use this feature extensively, especially when I'm at work on dual monitors. Even if its something that has to be enabled in opera:config.

+1

+1

I should read if there are rules about bumping. Was the official response that this is no longer possible?

"Bumping" - posting multiple times in a thread to attract attention - is ignored or even frowned on. Lending support to someone else's thread (just once) is fine.

+1

I actually filed a bug report before I was pointed to this thread (sorry, I should have done a forum search first)

bug-285179

+1

"Detach" should not be the same thing with "Open in new window".

this problem still exists in latest build (9594).
will this be fixed or the current behaviour is to be considered intentional and "here to stay"?
in the latter case will an option be added to have it back the old way?

+1

One of the worst parts about the current situation is that it creates the window the same size as your regular Opera window and with the tab maximized (even if the tab had been restored and was only 500x300 originally) and with everything that had been shown in the UI visible (tab bar, hotlist, address bar. etc.) If you were trying to get a small window separate from Opera's main window (just for some informational popup or whatever) ... that is not what you get.

If the original tab had been restored, then at the very least detach it as a smaller window with much of the "fluff" hidden.

(It's my guess that the long-standing issue with the limited usablility of detached tabs - some shortcuts don't work, there's no menu bar, links opening in a completely new Opera window, can't save images - that's why they are trying this. But they really need to do it right - and this isn't it.)

the real problem was that when you had a tab detached and closed first the opera main window and then the detached tab, the next time you start opera all you see is a detached tab and there's no main window around. Average Joe doesn't know what's going on and thinks Opera's broken rather than just pressing ctrl+n

Some of the shortcuts didn't work in a detached tab - namely anything listed in the [Browser Window] context. I'm not certain where Ctrl-N was listed ...

Originally posted by WildEnte:

the real problem was that when you had a tab detached and closed first the opera main window and then the detached tab, the next time you start opera all you see is a detached tab and there's no main window around.

Perhaps for this situation Opera should change the save process to open the detached page inside the main Opera program upon a restart. That is to say that Opera should ignore the detached window status upon saving to autosave.win. By parsing out the detached windows status upon saving while keeping the URL intact should solve this problem I think.

+1 for being able to detatch the tab completely like before. Even if its enabled through Opera:config, I too used that a lot, and this new way doesn't seem to work as well...at least for me imo.

I was hoping this would have been fixed (or at least that an option would be available in config) for the latest version.

A similar effect to the old behavior can be achieved by the following:
1) Right click on a tab -> Customize
2) Check the "Show only when needed" box

Originally posted by Pavel Kuznetsov:

A similar effect to the old behavior can be achieved by the following:
1) Right click on a tab -> Customize
2) Check the "Show only when needed" box

I don't see how that is similar at all. It doesn't seem to change anything for me.

He's hiding the tab bar, but that won't hide the status bar, menu, and hotlist. Nor will it be the right size, if you are detaching a popup or other non-maximized tab.

+1

Absolutely re-enable this.
I used it for chat and watching videos all the time.

It was especialy usefull combined with Nvidia's "always ontop" function, as it let me have a video stream in the corner while working.

I wam highly disspointed to see it removed, and hope its back soon.

+1

+1

+1

I used this to watch video, using PowerMenu to make the detached window always on top.

This issue annoys me for several months already. I just haven't had time to find this tread.
Previous behaviour was completly fine for me.

+1

+1

Make it an option (with current behavior as default).

It is a right decision to provide a full pledged window when you detach a window (no confusion for users: "where has my menu gone?.. what this O-thing made to my tabs?..").

I was using this feature myself and can completely understand what it's good for. But also i understand 'undo' detaching is something so complex for users, that you shouldn't even bother trying to explain them how to do this. So unless you will make 'undo'-ing detaching easy for users (look Safari for reference) -- leave it as it is by default (with option to switch to old behavior).

Originally posted by profiT:

Make it an option (with current behavior as default).

Agree. All I want is an option to keep properties of tab in detached window (dimensions, position, address bar on or off) like Opera 8 and 9 do. It would be fine for me if by default menu will be visible in detached window.

It is a right decision to provide a full pledged window when you detach a window (no confusion for users: "where has my menu gone?.. what this O-thing made to my tabs?..").
I was using this feature myself and can completely understand what it's good for. But also i understand 'undo' detaching is something so complex for users, that you shouldn't even bother trying to explain them how to do this. So unless you will make 'undo'-ing detaching easy for users (look Safari for reference) -- leave it as it is by default (with option to switch to old behavior).

Call me idiot but I can't figure out a way to easily detach tab in Safari except a way through context menu command "Move Tab to New Window". Opera is wery different in a good way from Safari and Firefox -- it has MDI. So, handling of detaching should be also different to keep all goodness of MDI. Also the way of "undo detaching" is similar for Opera and Safari -- all you need is drag-and-drop icon from address field to tab panel.
BTW, Opera has better handling of "undo detaching" because it provides ability to choose where exactly to put new tab.

So, all current (Opera 9.26 and Safari 3) differences is that Opera hides menu bar after detaching and keeps all properties of detached tab in new window.

Originally posted by FataL:

It is a right decision to provide a full pledged window when you detach a window (no confusion for users: "where has my menu gone?.. what this O-thing made to my tabs?..").
I was using this feature myself and can completely understand what it's good for. But also i understand 'undo' detaching is something so complex for users, that you shouldn't even bother trying to explain them how to do this. So unless you will make 'undo'-ing detaching easy for users (look Safari for reference) -- leave it as it is by default (with option to switch to old behavior).

Call me idiot but I can't figure out a way to easily detach tab in Safari except a way through context menu command "Move Tab to New Window".

You can't You can't detach a tab in Safari as in Opera. But to create a new window from tab is really simple -- just drag-n-drop a tab beyond Safari's window -- you'll have your separated window with tab (and a great animation, too!). I was saying that attaching tab back ('undo' detach) in Safari still looks nicer than in Opera 9.5 (even if they tried to copy Safari's behavior) and works so much better than in Opera 9.26.

Originally posted by FataL:

Opera is wery different in a good way from Safari and Firefox -- it has MDI.

I never could get the hang of this letters... Being a programmer and all that, i know what these letters stand for and even how to craft a program with MDI (though in our times of 'Web x.0' and Vista, MDI looks sooo archaic -- it's blast from the past, from Windows 3.11 with love) What can i get from it as a user?

Originally posted by FataL:

Also the way of "undo detaching" is similar for Opera and Safari -- all you need is drag-and-drop icon from address field to tab panel.

It has become similar and much better only with new behavior in 9.5 (Safari-like). Well, i may be missing something but i thought that attach tab back isn't possible in 9.26 except through 'Windows' panel (which is hidden by default)?

Edit1: Aha, i was missing it!.. That little favicon thing? It can be drag-n-drop-ed?... Yeah, so much for usability. Thanks for a hint, anyway, but i beleive that still doesn't change anything -- new behavior is still simpler.

Originally posted by profiT:

You can't detach a tab in Safari as in Opera. But to create a new window from tab is really simple -- just drag-n-drop a tab beyond Safari's window -- you'll have your separated window with tab (and a great animation, too!).

Ok, now I see... Previously I tried to detach tab by dragging it to the sides, now I understand that I supposed to drag tab to top or bottom out of Safari's window. I see -- nice animation, But this topic is not about nifty effects of detaching, it's about missing usability...

I never could get the hang of this letters... Being a programmer and all that, i know what these letters stand for and even how to craft a program with MDI (though in our times of 'Web x.0' and Vista, MDI looks sooo archaic -- it's blast from the past, from Windows 3.11 with love) What can i get from it as a user?

MDI in Opera, for example, gives me apportunity to have couple tabs side-by-side (used a lot when comparing something like features on different pages), also as a web designer I resize tabs a lot (I don't want to detach tabs every time just to do all that).

It has become similar and much better only with new behavior in 9.5 (Safari-like). Well, i may be missing something but i thought that attach tab back isn't possible in 9.26 except through 'Windows' panel (which is hidden by default)?

Edit1: Aha, i was missing it!.. That little favicon thing? It can be drag-n-drop-ed?... Yeah, so much for usability. Thanks for a hint, anyway, but i beleive that still doesn't change anything -- new behavior is still simpler.

Again, I don't see how to do this with Safari in different from Opera's way.

Originally posted by profiT:

MDI looks sooo archaic -- it's blast from the past, from Windows 3.11 with love) What can i get from it as a user?

Like FataL said, the ability to easily view two pages simultaneously without having to open separate windows is useful. The unfortunately left to die Super Search feature, was a good example of how to take advantage of MDI. See How to make 'super search' feature work in 9.x series?. When a search query was inputed into Super Search, search results would be returned from the first two search engines in search.ini. These search engine results pages would be split in to two tiled horizontally pages allowing the user to see two sets of engine results at once. This worked in Opera 8 as well as older versions of Opera and was beneficial to my work productivity.

Originally posted by FataL:

MDI in Opera, for example, gives me apportunity to have couple tabs side-by-side (used a lot when comparing something like features on different pages), also as a web designer I resize tabs a lot (I don't want to detach tabs every time just to do all that).

And it also allows pop-ups (yeccch) to be opened in the size and shape required, but without forcing it to either take up the entire tabbed area or open a completely new window. Keeps it where it should be!

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

And it also allows pop-ups (yeccch) to be opened in the size and shape required, but without forcing it to either take up the entire tabbed area or open a completely new window. Keeps it where it should be!

Provided that's how you want it, you could set it to take up the entire area too. Why? Well, honestly, there used to be a benchmark which included opening (then closing) 8 red popups, the test went faster if the popups were full size. I can't think of a real-world situation where I'd want popups automatically maximized, but Opera can do that too.

Note: (Would someone please send me instructions on how to "attach" after detaching as above. I don't know how to access that windows bar.)


My previous comments from:
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=228491
============================================================================

Detach tabs feature change.

Sorry, I don't know what the proper terminology is, please bear with me, here goes.

In 9.27 and previous, if you had multiple tabs open in one window, you could take your mouse and grab a tab and drag it to the desktop so that it became its own (sub window?)(tabbed window?). At any rate it was seperate from the main window and could be opened and closed and resized independantly of the main window.

The definition of (sub window?)(tabbed window?) it that if you right click to customize, Main bar, Personal bar, Tab bar and Status bar choices are greyed out. Only Address bar, Start bar, View bar, and Navigation bar are active choices. And the window only has the address bar there normally, unless you had any of the latter previously checked in the main window or Address Bar unchecked.

This feature was great! No other browser had this feature.

Now, in beta, when you drag a tab to the desktop, you get a completely new window! Just like if you went <File-New Window> or <Control N>. What good is that? I could always get a new window in any browser including Opera.

Please keep this important differentiating feature!

Thanks

===========================================================================

After being redirected to this forum and reading the above, I'm still of the same opinion. We need to retain the detach feature. It is so important, that I use it all the time. I'm not even using 9.5 beta anymore since it doesn't have it. I guess I'll just have to keep using 9.27 if it isn't included in the 9.5 release.

I agree with the poster above, that the detach feature could be retained as an option, even if it was just an option in the "opera.config" . And it is so easy to open another window already, why do you need another way?

As far as new adopters of the browser goes, this is not important. Opera isn't losing cusomters over this. The main problem (see millions of posts on this issue) is scripting "compatibility" with "major" web sites, like yahoo, aol, google, microsoft live, etc. There's just too many errors for regular users. ("Compatibility" is in quotes because it really doesn't have to do with standards per se, it really has to do with interoperabilty with the features "big" websites implement which may not be strickly standards compliant, but which do work with IE and/or FF.)

Why so time is spent coding to remove a popular feature, when there so much stuff to fix is beyond me....

I am firmly convinced it's only a temporary "solution", because they changed that windows closing and reopening behavior in connection with sessions and such...
These are still 'snapshot' versions, ultimately!

Everything else would be completely idiotic, and even kiddy developers wouldn't do that!

Detaching and NOT plain new window opening is such an essential feature of OPERA, let alone the operation of so-called 'Managers' (bookmarks, transfer) on two different monitors...
A configuration I am using very often, would become impossible.

Such a change, completely disrespecting OPERA's long-time users would make me dump OPERA immediately.

But you are right, some words on this issue here from OPERA devs would be adequate, IMHO.

Originally posted by mistaknly:

Note: (Would someone please send me instructions on how to "attach" after detaching as above. I don't know how to access that windows bar.)

I don't know what you mean with 'windows bar'.
You need the 'Windows panel', which has to be enabled by customizing via OPERA's 'Appearance' dialog. It's OFF by default.

Within that 'Windows panel' you can rearrange your pages and detached tabs to windows etc., simply by dragging and dropping...

Originally posted by mistaknly:

Note: (Would someone please send me instructions on how to "attach" after detaching as above. I don't know how to access that windows bar.)

Right-click in the panel and select Customize, in the Panels tab select Windows. Or just press Ctrl-Shift-0, the shortcut to display the Windows panel. (That's number 0, not letter o.)

+1


sgunhouse and HaJotKE


Thanks, got it! Yeah, I learned something new today.


Please retain detach, attach feature!

Good grief, I just noticed this last night in 9903. It was bad enough the detach command was removed from the right-click menu on tabs, but now we can't detach a tab at all?

You should be able to - but the "detached tab" becomes a full window in 9.5.

The Detach option on Tabs was one of those Linux options "incorrectly" being displayed in Windows, like the Open Folder item in Transfers and such.

Yes, I remember the discussion on it. But I don't see why exactly it was "incorrect." Windows users have just as much a right to that command as Linux users.

And detaching a tab to a whole new window really kind of defeats the purpose of detaching a tab in the first place, doesn't it? I know I have no use for it.

Windows users can drag tabs to the desktop, Linux users can't. (That doesn't explain "Open folder", but I don't design these things.)

Originally posted by BAMAToNE:

I know I have no use for it.

Not more, in any case, than now when creating a new window, where you can arrange all exactly like it's now doing that crippled pseudo "detaching"...

That means, nothing has been gained; yet a falsification for "detaching" has been introduced or in other words, the designation for that new "detaching" is nothing than a big lie!

Lie therefore, because nothing is explained, nowhere...
... or did I miss it?