Can I please ‘Synchronize with My Own Server’?

Can I please ‘Synchronize with My Own Server’?

I dislike having to trust any company with my personal information. (See the ‘Fraud protection and privacy’ thread.) That is why I want to use Opera’s new synchronization feature trough my own server. Why can’t I do this?

I understand the feature as being either push-to-FTP-or-DAV or a POST-XML service. It should not be too difficult to have my own server harbor the same condition.

I also understand that the synchronization feature would not work with Opera mini if I had things back on my own server. But I mean that is my decision to make, and not Opera’s.

I would prefer synchronization with my Google account.

Hehe. I trust Opera much more than I trust Google. Google’s data collection is just insane. If you had the option to synchronize your web browser’s bookmarks with them ou would probably end up seeing “targeted bookmark-ads” amongst your regular bookmarks. They allready have your email, chat logs, search history, web browsing history (from AdSense/Analytics), so... I guess their bookmark-ads would be hyper-targeted at you too. Enjoy.

its a question of consequence not to share any information that need not to be shared.
I also disabled "fraud protection" as it implicitly tracks my surfing behavior and adds no value for me.

99% of the web useres are like cattle, they like to be profiled, they like popup ads, they like to enter their private data (and some of them will always get "slaughtered").

sync server choices should be an obvious option
why can't users have the freedom & choice where they sync their private data to

poll should allow multiple selections, or similar options should be combined as one
ie. both privacy AND control of personal data are EQUALLY important

skye11, i made two yes and two no options. I did this so users could pick their most important issue with privacy and vote for that while still retaining a yes/no-feel. (It is important to distinguish between privacy and control. The two are not necessarily always the same.) Right now there is 9 votes for user choice and 5 against.

Remember to spotlight this thread if you think this is an important issue. That helps others find this thread.

cspot, see my other thread about fraud protection (link in this thread’s first post). There I also request user choice. I suggest allowing users to download and cache Opera’s fraud database on their local machines. That way Opera Software ASA and it’s partners could not track users surfing habbitts, but the user would also have fraud protection. (Checking links against local vs. central databases.)

Moo.

I cannot give out information about opening the synchronization protocol nor enabling alternative synchronization servers for Opera Link, nor fuel any discussions on this subject.

What I can tell you is to read Opera's privacy policy, which relates directly to our security and synchronization features. There is no behind-the-scenes user-tracking, no data is related to a specific user. It is personal and protected.

/official mode off

I do see why a certain group of users will be happy with such functionality, but you have to realize that not everyone is a power-user, ready to run his own server, care about having that server in working condition, backed up, updated, or ready for sudden critical fixes. While I'm certain that there's enough people that are perfectly able to do that, like the good majority on the technical forums here, you have to realise we're lost in the crowd anyway.

Me personally, despite all my virtual-paranoia - I'd store my bookmarks on the Opera Link servers as I do now and I'll continue to do so, knowing the ways the data is stored and protected.

Addressing your official mode, TheAtilla: I have read trough it and I find Opera’s privacy policy is a bit sketchy and incomplete. For instance, it refers to opting out of HitsLink tracing, but there is no link or instructions on how to achieve this. Regarding the two Norwegian partners Opera shares information with, the policy only specifies that they have to comply with Norwegian privacy law (and scrutiny by Datatilsynet (The Norwegian Data Inspectorate), I presume). Norwegian privacy law is good, so no complaints there.

Also, the form that should allow me to “options for changing , modifying and requesting deletion of information previously provided” at My Opera does not exist. Previously, I have contacted My Opera regarding deleting an user account and associated information. I got a reply saying this could not be done. That reply (a year or so back) directly violated Opera’s own privacy policy even at that time.

So... I do not trust Opera Software ASA with my information.

And unofficial, TheAtilla: Geeks are an important group to look after. Just look at Mozilla Firefox’s booming success lately! That is because geeks first addopted it, and the web browser with it’s geeky features is now becoming mainstream. Why does not Opera look after this all-important target group?

To everyone: The pool now shows 9 for and 9 against user choice. Only 2 does not have a clue, yet.

@Aleksandersen: "I dislike having to trust any company with my personal information."

So you run your own ISP?

"Previously, I have contacted My Opera regarding deleting an user account and associated information. I got a reply saying this could not be done."

Sure it can. You can easily delete any content and information associated with your own account. Maybe you can't remove the account itself, but you can still delete your private information, blog posts, photos, etc. So there is no violation of the privacy policy here.

Originally posted by GoJoeGo:

Originally posted by Aleksandersen:

I dislike having to trust any company with my personal information.

So you run your own ISP?

I would if I could. Hehe. At least, I do not use my ISP’s DNS.

Originally posted by GoJoeGo:

Originally posted by Aleksandersen:

Previously, I have contacted My Opera regarding deleting an user account and associated information. I got a reply saying this could not be done.

Sure it can. You can easily delete any content and information associated with your own account. Maybe you can't remove the account itself, but you can still delete your private information, blog posts, photos, etc. So there is no violation of the privacy policy here.

No. Their privacy policy says I can delete my account and have all my information removed. When I tried this, I was told this was not possible.

Deleting Opera Link data is completely possible. While there's no directly accessible interface for that (yet), it can be done. I'll ask the my.opera guys why this is not the case. I'm assuming they had somehting slightly different in mind, as all information should be able to be removed. Of course, i'd assume that the username can not be reused after account removal, which I'd assume they had in mind.

Deleting a My Opera account is not possible. If it is now, then that is a very recent policy change. And the form to delete an account is not in place (see my post above). TheAtilla, can you ask them about opting out of HitsLink tracking too?

Actually, since this questions have been raised in another thread recently, I believe it's time for clarifications. I'll poke the right people for this, if they're not yet aware of those threads.

Originally posted by Aleksandersen:

And unofficial, TheAtilla: Geeks are an important group to look after. Just look at Mozilla Firefox’s booming success lately! That is because geeks first addopted it, and the web browser with it’s geeky features is now becoming mainstream. Why does not Opera look after this all-important target group?

We're definitely not disregarding this group of people, but I'm really not allowed to talk about any additional Opera Link details, at least not at this stage. Opera Link is still a beta feature as it is and while being more open is never out of the question (and definitelly not something we haven't considered and discussed ages ago), it's just something that we aren't right now.

It doesn't mean that those requests are in vain, or that anyone practicularly dislikes that option, but it's just something that is not happening *right* now, if ever.

Originally posted by Aleksandersen:

Deleting a My Opera account is not possible. If it is now, then that is a very recent policy change. And the form to delete an account is not in place (see my post above). TheAtilla, can you ask them about opting out of HitsLink tracking too?

The option to delete My Opera accounts is coming. Up until now we've manually removed content and "banned" the accounts, as a way to "delete" accounts.

Regarding HitsLink: There's an update coming soon here as well, which I think will be just up your alley.

EspenAO, will the opt-out of HitsLink work for non-My Opera members too? I mean, is it tied to one’s user-account or cookie-based, or preferably both?

Anyhow, back to topic: User’s choice to choose where to synchronize their Opera browsers. This thread’s pool shows that there is a majority 52% vote, and only 36% that do not care as long as it works.

Sooner or later you will have to come out with the protocol/format. And maybe standardizing early might give you an advantage? Your decision of course. Something you may find interesting:

Originally posted by John Resig:

Finally, [Apple is] very interested in getting a public sync schema for bookmarks - one that works across all browsers (easily synchronizing Firefox with Safari with iPhone Safari, etc.). Apparently they've contacted Mozilla in the past about this, but I'm not sure to what end this has led.

(John Resig - iPhone Tech Talk)

So you won't trust a company to store your information on their servers, but you will trust a interface created by this company to send the data to your private server? So instead of letting them store bookmarks on their server you are going to give them access to your private server? If you don't trust them to store it, why let them touch it at all. How do you know they aren't secretly storing your bookmarks anyway? I happen to trust Opera ASA, and also, I don't keep anything "sensitive" in my bookmarks, personal bar, or notes. <sarcasm>I wouldn't know what to do if someone stole my bookmarks and started selling them to third parties! </sarcasm>

If you don't trust Opera, then write your own software to do it. I have my own program that I use to sync my bookmarks, and well my entire profile, but I find Opera Link to be so much more convenient. I like when others do my work for me !

This is just my opinion!

@Aleksandersen: where does the privacy policy say that you can delete your account? It goes without saying that you can have all your information removed. You can do so yourself.

Opting out of Hitslink tracking? You mean so that you can't get traffic info for your own account? Just stop using it, then. But asking Opera to stop doing traffic analysis on the site (which all other sites do) is useless.

Oh yeah, and you don't trust Opera, but you do trust your ISP. That sounds contradictory to me.

Please don't turn this into a hitslink discussion, there's at least one more thread that discusses that.

I can see how pushing the data to your own server would be useful for archival purposes, or sending the data to a server that is intra-lan if you are using it for corporate purposes. (That could be cool) As for privacy purposes, read my post above. The only way you can guarantee your information is not being sent is to remove that computer from the Internet when it goes to Synchronize, as I am sure Opera Link works across Port 80 so it won't be blocked by firewalls!

Originally posted by Aleksandersen:

Hehe. I trust Opera much more than I trust Google. Google’s data collection is just insane. If you had the option to synchronize your web browser’s bookmarks with them ou would probably end up seeing “targeted bookmark-ads” amongst your regular bookmarks. They allready have your email, chat logs, search history, web browsing history (from AdSense/Analytics), so... I guess their bookmark-ads would be hyper-targeted at you too. Enjoy.

i think you're absolutely right :-)

Originally posted by Aleksandersen:

So... I do not trust Opera Software ASA with my information.

well, so just don't use the link-feature. stay with gmail, google etc ;-)

it's like nearly always in life: you can choose between yes and no. but the moment people get the opportunity to ask questions or set up demands, there will be the question for a third way - which just ends in unsatisfied people because they think, they can't get what they want. but they (nearly always) would be satisfied if they wouldn't have more choices than yes or no.

just my 2 cents :-)

Originally posted by VJgamer:

The only way you can guarantee your information is not being sent is to remove that computer from the Internet when it goes to Synchronize, as I am sure Opera Link works across Port 80 so it won't be blocked by firewalls!

Well, the traffic is over a secured connection, so it's not on port 80, but close enough - it is intended to not be bothered by firewalls.

Originally posted by TheAtilla:

Well, the traffic is over a secured connection, so it's not on port 80, but close enough - it is intended to not be bothered by firewalls.

Only have a handful of ports open here...

Thread moved to desktop wish-list section, on my request. (It really did not belong in the beta section anymore, as Opera Link now is out of beta.)

53% of the voters want to synchronise with their own servers. The number is actually lower than what I would have expected. However, as there have been 71 people voting it seams this is a hot topic non the less. 38% does not want this option, and 81% of these people trust Opera Software ASA to handle their data.

Originally posted by Aleksandersen:

53% of the voters want to synchronise with their own servers. The number is actually lower than what I would have expected. However, as there have been 71 people voting it seams this is a hot topic non the less. 38% does not want this option, and 81% of these people trust Opera Software ASA to handle their data.

Actually the number is higher than what I'd expect and it has a reasonable explanation. The sample of users that have voted is not representative - since those forums are visited by more tech-savvy people and a good amount of them with the ability and desire to actually do such a thing.

Another, and probably more important number, TheAtilla (or Tortilla as Aspell keeps suggesting), is that this pool have had many more voters than my other pools on Opera Link features. The other pools have about 20 votes each. This pool has almost four times as many votes. I guess that shows an general interest in this feature request.

PS: You must take into account that the thread was looked for a few days for some odd reason. Moving it to the desktop wish-list section of the forums fixed that issue.

It was in the "most subscribed" list, I'm guessing that got it a good amount of attention.

Originally posted by Aleksandersen:

TheAtilla (or Tortilla as Aspell keeps suggesting)

That totally calls for a new signature

Originally posted by TheAtilla:

Originally posted by Aleksandersen:

TheAtilla (or Tortilla as Aspell keeps suggesting)

That totally calls for a new signature

I cannot wait to see it.

By the way, Mr. Tortilla: What can users do to make this feature suggestion happen? I mean, ... Posting in the Opera Community forums only gets you so far. Even though there have already been 86 votes for this feature already.

I really don't know actually. For one thing it definitely helps to see more than 2-3 people mentioning that, but how the service will take shape is something that ultimatelly Opera Software will decide. And so far, as you can see, this is not a primary concern for ours, otherwise it'd be there already.

Not calling me Mr. Tortilla helps, for sure.

Originally posted by TheAtilla:

Not calling me Mr. Tortilla helps, for sure

whereas 'ATILLA the Hun' was a renowned hostile Commander in Chief in times of the Roman Empire here in Europe...
... today its a prename, mostly in Hungary, AFAIK.

Originally posted by TheAtilla:

The sample of users that have voted is not representative ...

I wonder why Opera is supporting Solaris, OS/2, BeOS, QNX and FreeBSD. I think users of these operating systems are less representatve than users running there own servers at home. With that logic in mind maybe Opera could cancel support for these non representative operating systems and do something better for the representative users.

Originally posted by Paternoster:

Originally posted by TheAtilla:

The sample of users that have voted is not representative ...

I wonder why Opera is supporting Solaris, OS/2, BeOS, QNX and FreeBSD. I think users of these operating systems are less representatve than users running there own servers at home. With that logic in mind maybe Opera could cancel support for these non representative operating systems and do something better for the representative users.

Erm... You are joking right?

Must be, Opera hasn't released a new OS/2, BeOS, or QNX build in years ...

I am just wondering, what could be done to get “real” data to support my feature request? I understand that this forum pool may not be representative. (Or it may actually be representative. Who knows?) I also understand that Opera will not open the spesification just to satisfy the 50 or so users who have said that they want to use their own servers for Opera Link.

Originally posted by olli:

Erm... You are joking right?

Yes, of course I am joking. I'm glad to see Opera's support for many operating systems. I use Windows, Linux and OpenBSD at home.

I think a lot of people already have more than only one PC at home and have the need to synchronize their data. Maybe they use some kind of network storage (server or NAS). Maybe a memory stick or a USB disk drive could be sufficient for synchronisation also. But I'm sure most of your business customers have a server at the office and many could be glad to have the possibility to share bookmark they need for their business at home and in office without having to trust an exteral company. In my opinion it's worth to think of that opportunitys instead of condemn it as not representative.

Originally posted by Paternoster:

Originally posted by olli:

Erm... You are joking right?

Yes, of course I am joking. I'm glad to see Opera's support for many operating systems. I use Windows, Linux and OpenBSD at home.

I think a lot of people already have more than only one PC at home and have the need to synchronize their data. Maybe they use some kind of network storage (server or NAS). Maybe a memory stick or a USB disk drive could be sufficient for synchronisation also. But I'm sure most of your business customers have a server at the office and many could be glad to have the possibility to share bookmark they need for their business at home and in office without having to trust an exteral company. In my opinion it's worth to think of that opportunitys instead of condemn it as not representative.

+1

+1

Originally posted by gpolitis:

+1

What a re-opening of the wish after more than 3 years.

By the way, I would vote a +1.

My name is Digger, Forum Digger.

Originally posted by Swapnil99pro:

Originally posted by gpolitis:

+1

What a re-opening of the wish after more than 3 years.

3 Years old and still not implemented!
What a pity...

C'mon guys! It's not that hard!

If you respected user data, like you tell you do, you'd have implemented it already.

Originally posted by Swapnil99pro:

Originally posted by gpolitis:

+1

What a re-opening of the wish after more than 3 years.

By the way, I would vote a +1.

So? I commend gpolitis for searching the forum rather than just posting the umptieth duplicate of the same request.

+1

yeah it's sad this still hasn't been implemented. Could someone in Opera please explain what the target area of their browser is nowadays, or which direction they want to go to?

*it's clearly not privacy
notice the lack of a sandbox on windows or at least running in reduced privileges mode, default sharing of ALL queries in address bar with both google DNS auto-complete and google search auto-complete, lack of opera sync with private server, lack of turbo with private server, no out-of-process plugin in stable version although that is being improved in the beta, lack of each-tab-in-own-process, lack of straightforward 'privacy checkboxes' to change some of previously mentioned issues. Opera loses out to Chrome here (not even mentioning Chromium).

*it no longer is memory footprint
while opera used to lead in this department, it no longer is the frontrunner and is slowly falling behind compared to firefox. I wonder how memory usage of chrome compares to opera 12 if each-tab-own-process could be disabled

*it no longer is speed
opera, chrome and firefox seem to be very similar in speed nowadays. Opera is behind in using hardware acceleration.

*customizability
used to be Opera's strong point. However, they are falling behind which is reflected in the complete disregard for most users' requests over the past few years, where bugs haven't been fixed because only 'current regressions or major showstoppers' seems to be the focus of the Opera developers.

*features
Opera is dropping support for IRC, bittorrent, unite, widgets, voice, toolbars. Will dropping the mail client follow? I can't even come up with much else...

*cellphones
once king of cellphones, modern cellphone OSes come with browsers that are good enough for the majority of users

I suppose in the end they can't maintain these things with the current amount of developers. But a sizeable fraction of the current user-base surely uses opera because of one or more of the areas Opera used to excel at. If these no longer are areas of focus for opera developers, how will Opera keep their user-base from declining? Right now they appear to slowly morph into a 'me-too-Chrome' browser that will always lag behind, because they cannot compete with the development budget of Google.

Clearly, what's needed to survive is to chose a niche and to be loads better than the competition in this niche. Google already focusses on being the most secure and fastest browser, so it's a bad idea to try and focus on only those two.

What about bringing user's privacy and customizability onto the front row? You could implement most of the privacy-related improvements that are being suggested on these forums, and add some unique things like integrate support for TOR into Opera (just a wild idea).

P.S. I'm disappointed that my previous post that dealt on exactly this topic (posted at the end of 2010) has been deleted. It covered most of these points already and I can't see how deleting constructive criticism really helps anyone?

diy: you can always use fiddler to reverse-engineer the protocol if you want.

Originally posted by serious:

diy: you can always use fiddler to reverse-engineer the protocol if you want.

If one has the capacity to reverse-engineer and write code for a webbrowser as a non-commercial third party.. then why would one want to do this for a closed source browser when one can also directly edit the code of comparable projects, like Firefox and Chrome? (allowing the reverse-engineering steps to be skipped).

for the same reason 99% of the stuff is done: because the challange is fun and because you can

sync the content (or some content) of the profile folder with "rsync".

if you dont know what rsync is, you have no business using the word "server"

Originally posted by agent-smith:

if you dont know what rsync is, you have no business using the word "server"

+1

Originally posted by agent-smith:

if you dont know what rsync is, you have no business using the word "server"

Wonderful! Why did Opera ever bother to even include an integrated sync when every user can use rsync instead?