A reasoned comparison of Unite to other classic services of the Web

A reasoned comparison of Unite to other classic services of the Web

There has been a lot of talk about Opera Unite around the Net, and unfortunately I could witness a lot of misinformation as well, concerning both features and limitations of the service when compared to other typical Web applications and services, like Web Servers, file hosting sites, P2P communication and Cloud Computing.

What I wanted to write here is my thoughts of why Unite is different (not better or worse) from any other existing service; I'll try to do that with a list of advantages and disadvantages Unite has to other services, as comprehensive as possible; feel free to add anything you think I've missed.

Unite as a Web/File/Streaming Server
Advantages

1. All-in-one solution with possibility of extension
2. Easy to set up
3. Opera gives you a domain for free (although you need to register)
4. Possible use of Opera Proxy

Disadvantages

• Nowhere near as many features (It's bound to improve, but it won't get as good as specialized software, that's a given)
• You have to keep your browser open (not really a disadvantage if you're using one anyway)
• I'm not sure about this, but you'll probably be confined to Opera as the software, as opposed to having an open specification (for the server, maybe not for the domain/proxy service)

Unite as a Web/File hosting service
Advantages

• No need to upload anything, useful for highly dynamic content
• You don't have to rely on a third party
• Your disk space is your only size limitation

Disadvantages

• If you want many people to download the same content, you're better off using a hosting service with bandwidth to spare
• Low availability, unless you have your PC always on and up
• Limited features for now

Unite as a P2P service (IM, IRC, BitTorrent etc.)
Advantages

• Easy to set up
• Clients only need a browser and your URL
• Low transmission overhead
• You rely on a third party (Opera) only for the domain name, while you need a host and a tracker for BitTorrent, a host for IRC, and a central server for IM name resolution

Disadvantages

• No content/user search functions or other advanced features (yet)
• Http protocol, which has disadvantages (for example over BitTorrent)
• For now, incompatible with other standards and applications

Unite as a Cloud Computing service (well, it's not really Cloud Computing, but it was one of the most frequent comparisons)
Advantages

• You don't rely on a third party, no weird Terms of Use for your content
• Clients only need a browser and your URL
• No need to sync content might be an advantage if you have only friends accessing it
• Use of common, open standards, as compared to most other services

Disadvantages

• The Cloud has more resources than your PC (bandwidth, space, power etc.)
• Limited features so far; it might improve, but relying on HTML and JavaScript may be a very limiting factor
• Low availability, unless you have your PC always on and up
• Service integration might not get very far

Well, that's it for now. Please tell me what you thik, critiques are welcome!

The main problem is that for most of us, Unite isn't fulfilling an actual need...But the technology itself is quite nice and innovative.

Originally posted by ITA84:

Unite as a Web/File/Streaming Server
Disadvantages

• Nowhere near as many features (It's bound to improve, but it won't get as good as specialized software, that's a given)
• You have to keep your browser open (not really a disadvantage if you're using one anyway)
• I'm not sure about this, but you'll probably be confined to Opera as the software, as opposed to having an open specification (for the server, maybe not for the domain/proxy service)

1 - We never know. From tech-dudes all over the world I'm getting the impression that this is pretty awesome stuff.
2 - The browser can be minimized and placed in the taskbar, can't it? In any case it barely leaves a dent in my resources.
3 - I'm not sure what you mean here... sorry.

Unite as a Web/File hosting service
Disadvantages

• If you want many people to download the same content, you're better off using a hosting service with bandwidth to spare
• Low availability, unless you have your PC always on and up
• Limited features for now

1 - It'll be interesting to see how Unite scales.
2 - But if you really need to serve files throughout the day, then keeping the machine on is a non-issue.
3 - Limited services, which people can make themselves and expand. Unless I totally missed the point...

Unite as a P2P service (IM, IRC, BitTorrent etc.)
Disadvantages

• No content/user search functions or other advanced features (yet)
• Http protocol, which has disadvantages (for example over BitTorrent)
• For now, incompatible with other standards and applications

1 - Yet is a very good word.
2 - I don't think it's impossible to create a tracker-solution in Unite
3 - This could easily change I think

Unite as a Cloud Computing service (well, it's not really Cloud Computing, but it was one of the most frequent comparisons)
Disadvantages

• The Cloud has more resources than your PC (bandwidth, space, power etc.)
• Limited features so far; it might improve, but relying on HTML and JavaScript may be a very limiting factor
• Low availability, unless you have your PC always on and up
• Service integration might not get very far

1 - I like being in control of things, and the cloud can be clunky and unreliable a lot of the time :/
2 - Will get better afaik?
3 - Seems like another non-issue to me.
4 - I'm not sure what you mean.

My impression is that this will be easy to develop further, and it looks like it will be really great to expand on.

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

no more gmail 20MB limitations

Wow, but that's gotta be a lot of photos...You can always use Picasa, Flickr, Photobucket, etc... It's always online, no need to have your computer always on.

Originally posted by Morghus:

3 - I'm not sure what you mean here... sorry.

I was referring to the fact that there's only one proprietary software that implements this service, as opposed to traditional HTTP/FTP servers and the like, for which there's plenty of open source implementations.
After reading around a bit, though, this might become a minor issue because of the technologies used (Activity Streams).

Originally posted by Morghus:

4 - I'm not sure what you mean.

I realize this was worded badly; I meant how certain Cloud services provide APIs that desktop applications can use to integrate them seamlessly.

Anyhow, thanks for your reply.

Yeah, they're proposing some of this stuff as standards, I can't remember which and what right now, but it shouldn't be very limited

Personally I hope it takes off, because this created an entirely new level of simplicity and integration. It's even made communication between computers on a bloody LAN easier (different OS's)

Sort of misleading title in a way.
You are comparing default included services and using the name "Unite" for them
Unite is not just those services.And yes we do need more services with more features so your intentions are spot on though

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

my computer is already always on

Mine is on for the entire day, but this is not good either, we have to save the planet

I can only see one major disadvantage missing. Much of the internet is populated by users with a very small amount of upload bandwidth. Also downloading from anyone at full speed will slow their internet use without some sort of throttle.

And as for encouraging everybody to run their computers 24/7, as mentioned it's not exactly environment friendly.

Here leaving a notebook on 24/7 would cost €9.00/month of electric bill.

I'm no even going to bother pointing out why that's irrelevant.

I'm still not clear about a lot of things.

Originally posted by ITA84:

You have to keep your browser open

I thought you just had to be connected to the Internet.

What's the address that I must give to others?

The link to My Fridge just seems to give an error message in other browsers. Firefox doesn't recognise the protocol.

Is this the right address for My Website ?

Originally posted by Pesala:

Is this the right address for My Website ?

The page times returns an error message here...

503 Service Unavailable

No server is available to handle this request.

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

can I have a link to a study (with numbers) on that?

Just common sense. You use electricity.

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

Originally posted by dertbox:

I can only see one major disadvantage missing. Much of the internet is populated by users with a very small amount of upload bandwidth. Also downloading from anyone at full speed will slow their internet use without some sort of throttle.

And as for encouraging everybody to run their computers 24/7, as mentioned it's not exactly environment friendly.

can I have a link to a study (with numbers) on that?

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/blog/blog.aspx?id=1088 Two years old, but things haven't changed much. The PDF has more info, but sadly it's focusing on the top countries.

China does have broadband, but 4mbit is around about the fastest it's up to.

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

Originally posted by calande:

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

can I have a link to a study (with numbers) on that?

Just common sense. You use electricity.

Well, it's hard to make a case without some actual data to back you up
I don't think you can use "common sense" as an argument when discussing science

I think he just means that if you know how much your electricity costs and you know how many watts your notebook uses, you can easily find out for yourself without needing a study. That's common sense.

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

Originally posted by calande:

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

can I have a link to a study (with numbers) on that?

Just common sense. You use electricity.

Well, it's hard to make a case without some actual data to back you up
I don't think you can use "common sense" as an argument when discussing science

In this case though... A laptop/PC uses electricity, most electricity is still coming from plants that emit CO2 and other pollutants (unless you live in nuclear powered France). Most people do not leave their PCs on 24/7 so if Unite makes them do that it would increase their carbon footprint.
But if it's numbers you want...
This site provides information on PC power usage. So let's take a PC using 125 Watt, keeping it running for a month works out to 90kWh. If this site is to be believed that means 50 kilos of C02. Equivalent to driving a VW Golf (1.9L) for 250 km.

what I'd really like to hear from the Opera team is how they imagine most people, example given Western Europe and the United States, are gonna manage making Unite links efficiently available to tens of friends for instance, considering that even those of us having a pretty high download bandwidth, still have an upload one limited to about 100 to 150 KB/s. I mean let's be clear: even if you just make the link available, and you won't have to upload yourself manually, the download speed that your friends will have on your links and files will be limited to your own upload speed...So, I know this will change...ISP's don't seem in a hurry...I for instance have a 30Mbit/s download bandwidth through fiber cable, and only 1Mbit upload...how am I supposed to deal with that. A website hosted on my PC in those conditions would be a disaster...not for me, I wouldn't even feel it, but for those attempting to connect.

Originally posted by dertbox:

And as for encouraging everybody to run their computers 24/7, as mentioned it's not exactly environment friendly.

It's funny that nobody ever blamed apache for "encouraging everybody to run their computer 24/7" and "not being environment friendly". Or emule, or bittorrent for that matter.
Do you know that most people run their computer 24/7 with or without a server, and they've been doing it for years ?
Running a unite server doesn't use more electricity (it doesn't even use more RAM or more CPU), it's up to everyone to decide how long the computer has to be running. Opera is not "encouraging" anybody.
I've seen about 10 unite server so far, in 3 days. None of them were online more than a few hours.
Opera-Unite users run their servers just as long they need to. On the other every "pro" servers like picasa, or flick, are always running, even when you don't need it. And that have much more impact on environment.
Actually, Opera Unite might much more "environment friendly" than we think.

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

Uhm.. it doesn't say if the monitor is On or Off :\ I would guess On, it would be nice to see that info there too.

hmm, i'm sure you have plenty of different PCs at the office, multi-meters are not that expensive..
It should be easy to find those numbers for yourself no?

@icare: right, Unite (or at least the current server app) seems to me to be aimed more at people who need to do some quick ad-hoc sharing of a limited number of files. Not at people who want to host their own site on a permanent basis.
(i doubt that most people keep their PCs running 24/7 though, we're not all über torrenters)

Originally posted by icare:

Originally posted by dertbox:

And as for encouraging everybody to run their computers 24/7, as mentioned it's not exactly environment friendly.

It's funny that nobody ever blamed apache for "encouraging everybody to run their computer 24/7" and "not being environment friendly". Or emule, or bittorrent for that matter.
Do you know that most people run their computer 24/7 with or without a server, and they've been doing it for years ?
Running a unite server doesn't use more electricity (it doesn't even use more RAM or more CPU), it's up to everyone to decide how long the computer has to be running. Opera is not "encouraging" anybody.
I've seen about 10 unite server so far, in 3 days. None of them were online more than a few hours.
Opera-Unite users run their servers just as long they need to. On the other every "pro" servers like picasa, or flick, are always running, even when you don't need it. And that have much more impact on environment.
Actually, Opera Unite might much more "environment friendly" than we think.

This could be interesting to find out

Then again, the big data-centres are getting better I think, though of course I wouldn't really know since I've got no real numbers.

In any case, I leave my comp on all the time. If you really need stuff available, you'll be doing the same, because chances are you'll need something else as well.

hmm, so far this is a bit like 'software firewall VS hardware firewall' ... (note I am not an expert, so add your own..... )

software: All stuff has to be registered, a lot of 'over engineering' involved to catch more customers by promising to stop spam, ddos, etc, usually resulting in slower, overloaded PC due to resources required...

hardware: No OS/browser/ whatever dependency, filters packets, by IP, URLs as well - some have capability for addon HD to make it a server... very low power, low size, so very economic to run 24/7..
(And of course many of us have other problems... like the wife and kids shutting of that noisy PC, tripping over wires, and general mess - makes the hardware solution much safer, can be hidden away in a cupboard, and accessed by family over wifi... )

For those who seem to be crazy about how much power is used, see this device! ...

And a word of warning about leaving your precious PC on 24/7.... you had better have a very good cooling and fan system, in case something eventually fails, killing almost everything due to head crashes caused by melted CPUs... It then makes the buffalo / iomega solution seem worth it...

Originally posted by icare:

Originally posted by dertbox:

And as for encouraging everybody to run their computers 24/7, as mentioned it's not exactly environment friendly.

It's funny that nobody ever blamed apache for "encouraging everybody to run their computer 24/7" and "not being environment friendly". Or emule, or bittorrent for that matter.
Do you know that most people run their computer 24/7 with or without a server, and they've been doing it for years ?
Running a unite server doesn't use more electricity (it doesn't even use more RAM or more CPU), it's up to everyone to decide how long the computer has to be running. Opera is not "encouraging" anybody.
I've seen about 10 unite server so far, in 3 days. None of them were online more than a few hours.
Opera-Unite users run their servers just as long they need to. On the other every "pro" servers like picasa, or flick, are always running, even when you don't need it. And that have much more impact on environment.
Actually, Opera Unite might much more "environment friendly" than we think.

I totally agree, but most, if not all of those users are in some way powerusers. Unite is simplification for the masses.

It probably won't make a lot of difference in truth as average people are still more or less as likely to turn their computer off, but it's something to bear in mind.

Oh, also regarding monitors, there are quite a few that don't have power efficient standbys and continue to sap a lot of electricity even if they're turned off. Flat screens are better than CRTs when they're turned on, but turned off they're worse vampires. Not that it's an issue for Unite, but it's a bit pointless to include it.

thanks anyone for commenting this post...
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=3021682

I mean Unite can't be just about electricity bills

Originally posted by dertbox:

if not all of those users are in some way powerusers

Heh, power user in computing redefined to refer to someone using a lot of electrical power instead of someone using the computer powerfully.

There is a considerable benefit of scale measured in unit of bandwidth/unit of power consumed, and data centres should perform much better than home computers in this measure, though home computers have become a lot more power efficient as well, a trend we can expect to continue. E.g. Asus claims an average power use of 20W for their Eee Boxes.

I don't see pumping bits as the main, or at least the most interesting, use of Unite. In that context I would say that antonioafonso seems a serious bit waster. By admission he and his girlfriend is polluting the Internet with millions, billions, of bits they never use. Yes, cameras these days create trillions of bits that are never seen and never used, but that is no excuse to slosh them around with no consideration of the recipient capabilities. Now, it might be unfair to blame camera vendors, antonioafonso (or his girlfriend), or Opera Unite for this sorry state.

No bits were harmed during the posting of this message.

Originally posted by jax:

Heh, power user in computing redefined to refer to someone using a lot of electrical power instead of someone using the computer powerfully.

yeah, a bit odd!!

If you want all your stuff switched off when you shutdown your PC, this will do it .. It may seem expensive, but it not only saves the elec, but also saves you having to remember to switch off your printer, monitor, scanner, PC soundsystem, media dock... and also has two uncontrolled sockets for your phone charger, etc...

True

I'm trying to say that power users are a minority amongst computer users, meaning they are a minority of people that leave their computer on 24/7. Ironic coincidence, I suppose

Actually I find Unite extremely environment friendly. Plants love CO₂, they use it for photosynthesis. By having Unite running 24/7 you support plants. And who knows, maybe with Unite we can delay a bit the inevitable coming of the next glacial age?

Maybe this is Opera's plan, to stop the next ice age? After all they are located in Norway

Originally posted by calande:

The main problem is that for most of us, Unite isn't fulfilling an actual need...

I think you'd be quite surprised. I've used two of the services pretty much constantly since installing.

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

can I have a link to a study (with numbers) on that?

Computers use electricity. Electricity is (usually) a non-renewable and polluting resource.

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

Right, I was thinking in terms of CO2 footprint, I would like to see a study comparing different use cases, average laptop (with and without monitor turned on), computer (with/out monitor) and compare to the CO2 already generated by all other devices/cars/etc we already use everyday to actually check the ratio or percentage to know what kind of impact a computer running 24/24 would actually make.
Not saying I'm disbeliever or that you are wrong, I just like to see some numbers before having an opinion about the environment impact.

It's not a case of "leaving your computer on will have a huge impact or a bigger impact than cars/etc." it's a simple case of "leaving your computer on will have SOME negative impact". No figures are required here. It's common sense.

Originally posted by icare:

It's funny that nobody ever blamed apache for "encouraging everybody to run their computer 24/7" and "not being environment friendly". Or emule, or bittorrent for that matter.

You maybe right, but maybe they should have

Originally posted by jax:

Yes, cameras these days create trillions of bits that are never seen and never used, but that is no excuse to slosh them around with no consideration of the recipient capabilities. Now, it might be unfair to blame camera vendors, antonioafonso (or his girlfriend), or Opera Unite for this sorry state.

Absolutely. My sister got a digital SLR - she came to visit for a few weeks and suddenly out internet bill went through the roof!! People seriously need to be educated in efficient use of bits!

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

Bottom line is that it's up to people to actually choose how do they want to spend electricity.

Yup. And it's up to people to actually <strong>choose</strong> whether they want to drive a Hummer or not. It's all about choice

what I'd really like to hear from the Opera team is how they imagine most people, example given Western Europe and the United States, are gonna manage making Unite links efficiently available to tens of friends for instance, considering that even those of us having a pretty high download bandwidth, still have an upload one limited to about 100 to 150 KB/s. I mean let's be clear: even if you just make the link available, and you won't have to upload yourself manually, the download speed that your friends will have on your links and files will be limited to your own upload speed...So, I know this will change...ISP's don't seem in a hurry...I for instance have a 30Mbit/s download bandwidth through fiber cable, and only 1Mbit upload...how am I supposed to deal with that. A website hosted on my PC in those conditions would be a disaster...not for me, I wouldn't even feel it, but for those attempting to connect.

It's true that the current model of the Web is based on 'download of large multimedia content' and 'serving a large group of clients concurrently'; BitTorrent and similar technologies are a sort of work-around to provide these two things for clients with limited bandwidth. But what if we could rethink this model altogether? Create a new model of communication based on the current network limitations? Well, this isn't the place to discuss it, and I'm not into it deep enough, but it would be nice if a new model could sprout naturally from a service like Unite.

EDIT: I mean, we still have a reasonably huge downstream bandwidth, could it be used for something other than downloading HD media content?

Yup. And it's up to people to actually choose whether they want to drive a Hummer or not. It's all about choice

One person's freedom ends where another person's freedom starts (or something like that). When a lot of people live under the illusion of unlimited resources, it's hard to make them give up some of their freedom; trying to prevent energy shortages or damages to the environment is good, but we need to check people's priorities first. I'm also sure we could do away with a very large, unnecessary part of the Internet right now.

...What was this topic about again?

Originally posted by logos3:

only 1Mbit upload...how am I supposed to deal with that. A website hosted on my PC in those conditions would be a disaster...not for me, I wouldn't even feel it, but for those attempting to connect.

If 1Mbps isn't enough for the outbound traffic of your Unite apps, you really have a lot of connections!

Originally posted by antonioafonso:

Uhm.. it doesn't say if the monitor is On or Off :\ I would guess On

I would guess off, at 125 watts !

Originally posted by icare:

Do you know that most people run their computer 24/7 with or without a server, and they've been doing it for years ?

That's not good!

Originally posted by icare:

On the other every "pro" servers like picasa, or flick, are always running, even when you don't need it. And that have much more impact on environment.

This is true, but at the same time, there's always someone connecting to these servers, they are load-balanced, so there isn't any server running for nothing. Their use is optimal, whereas with Unite run during the night, you're using a whole server for just a few users who may connect once in a while.

Originally posted by icare:

Actually, Opera Unite might much more "environment friendly" than we think.

If run during the day yes, because you're using your computer for your daily tasks, and you use it also as a web server, but if you decide to keep it up at night while you sleep, it's better off using a shared server if you want to reduce your carbon footprint because you're using a single server for thousands of web sites instead of one server per web site.

Originally posted by Zotlan:

Unite (or at least the current server app) seems to me to be aimed more at people who need to do some quick ad-hoc sharing of a limited number of files.

In this case, the carbon footprint is minimal.

Originally posted by grafio:

Actually I find Unite extremely environment friendly. Plants love CO₂, they use it for photosynthesis. By having Unite running 24/7 you support plants.

LOL...

Originally posted by lucideer:

Electricity is (usually) a non-renewable and polluting resource.

Electricity almost alway uses either non-renewable energy (nuclear, charcoal, gaz, etc...) or rare/non-renewable components (gallium, indium for solar panels); the manufacturing of these power plants, solar panels, wind turbines, geothermal plants and so forth requires much energy that generates CO2 and pollution...

To conclude ... Use Unite cautiously, use it during the day while you're working on your computer. If you have to leave it on at night, at least turn off your monitor, and if possible, use a netbook to serve your content, it'll use less electricity

I made a thread specifically for <a href="http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=280898">The Environmental Impact of Opera Unite</a>, I think it may be better to continue the high energy discussion there.