Multiprocess Opera

Multiprocess Opera

The thing I would like to see in Opera, especially in alpha/beta testing is multi processing. This means that each tab is stand-alone process, so if you encounter crash in Opera only one tab will be terminated. Same way, if you're downloading something your download won't be interrupted. Or if you face mail/bookmarks crash, all tabs will remain.

Please vote and tell your opinion.

@KhazMadan Please search before posting, as per forum rules

@mods Please close this duplicate thread

Originally posted by lucideer:

@KhazMadan Please search before posting, as per forum rules

I searched for it, but found nothing

Originally posted by KhazMadan:

I searched for it, but found nothing

That's ok, sorry for being so brief - the search on this site can be difficult to use.

Have a read of these and contribute to the most recent if you like:

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=340001
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=287984

I would add only new functionality in destroy methods which happening on a crash.

If there are threading and each tab is a thread so then define which thread a crash happened inside... then close this thread and thats all -> close tab. but i see that opera has threading but it's not controlled as it must be. so it would not be stadalone processes but wisely controlled threading.

i vote no for this feature.

An individual process for each tab isn't really needed. I'd much rather see individual processes for Opera Link (so opera can restart faster), Unite (so I can keep it running all the time).

Definitely yes (+ 1000)

Originally posted by sevenred:

An individual process for each tab isn't really needed. I'd much rather see individual processes for Opera Link (so opera can restart faster), Unite (so I can keep it running all the time).

Well that is (at least a part) what I am requesting. At multiprocess Opera I mean processes for tabs, for Unite, for Link, and so on.

Originally posted by lucideer:

That's ok, sorry for being so brief - the search on this site can be difficult to use.



Have a read of these and contribute to the most recent if you like:



http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=340001

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=287984

Thanks.

Originally posted by PositiveAlex:

If there are threading and each tab is a thread so then define which thread a crash happened inside... then close this thread and thats all -> close tab. but i see that opera has threading but it's not controlled as it must be. so it would not be stadalone processes but wisely controlled threading.

Wisely controlled threading is good, but not the best. When you close tabs (or install new Opera Unite app., and so on), some bits remain (as memory fragmentation result), which on longer surfing are turning into megabytes. But if you use process per tab, when you close tab you kill whole process, which clears all memory used for that tab.

+1

No, no and hell no! Chrome uses ridiculous amounts of memory because of that. Opera 10.50 as it is consumes 2-5 times more than previous one.

Originally posted by dupel:

No, no and hell no! Chrome uses ridiculous amounts of memory because of that. Opera 10.50 as it is consumes 2-5 times more than previous one.

Opera 4 tabs: 115 MB
Chrome 4 tabs: 120 MB
(checked on 2 desktop comps and 3 laptops)

Originally posted by KhazMadan:

Opera 4 tabs: 115 MB
Chrome 4 tabs: 120 MB
(checked on 2 desktop comps and 3 laptops)

Somehow I doubt that you got precisely the same memory readings on 5 completely different computers...

Originally posted by lucideer:

Somehow I doubt that you got precisely the same memory readings on 5 completely different computers.

I didn't, but they are pretty close (about 3-4 MB).

That's will be awesome, I agree with you, because im using another programs for the features provided by Opera for this reason, when it crashes I lost everything.

I'm all for better use of multi-processes but it need not be blindly one process per tab.

The idea is good but the implementation needs to be well thought out. Using chrome on my hefty system, at about 50 or so tabs, it drags the performance of my computer down greatly. This is not acceptable.

Originally posted by fearphage:

at about 50 or so tabs, it drags the performance of my computer down greatly.

Yes, clearly you do not need 50 processes as you will not be using all 50 tabs simultaneously. An intelligent use of processes would be much better.

- 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288…

Opera should use multiprocessing just like Chrome or FF

As always I say: extra processes for plugins, but NOT tabs!

If you make a separate process for each of your tabs, (as a browser developer) you essentially admit that your browser SUCKS, and crashes all the time....

they could put 5 tabs or 10 tabs per process but the multi is needed for ppl who has high end pc's and its crashes when only 100 tabs are open (even with preferences and settings are config to it) when chrome can open 500 with 8gb of memory on a i7 system with multiple big screens i'm for it opera makes searching efficient but it seems alot of websites are config to work against it

Originally posted by Yowanvista:

Opera should use multiprocessing just like Chrome or FF

FF doesn't and AFAIK won't use multiple processes. Just a separate plugin process.

Originally posted by PiPeMayOr:

they could put 5 tabs or 10 tabs per process [...]

Well, that would a an acceptable solution I guess. Especially If one could configure the exact number of tabs per process...

Please consider one thing about multi-processing: it is a damned tough task to do inter-process communication on a cross-platform basis, and it does have severe performance penalties (without IPC it gets even worse). I'm not even sure it is at all possible on certain platforms that Opera supports. With Opera restoring all tabs after crash, it's not really worth the effort.

By using named pipes it's is acceptable. Both performance wise and implementation wise.

But as this feature would be part of Opera Desktop and not be integrated (maybe a little support) into Presto (Opera's rendering engine) I can't see a problem for e.g. mobile devices where this would really not make much sense...

Surely, I'm not familiar with Opera architecture, but I'd expect this to be a core feature, and that woudl affect all devices. Anyway, transferring a variable through a pipe is much slower (and definitely different) than passing it to a function or whatever. Guess there'd be many structures to transfer between the core and a single page (each page should serve its context as well), especially during javascript execution.

P.S. However, it might be worth thinking of the "core" as an "opera mini server for desktops", that would transcode the page it gets and bring contents to each tab that is a "mini cient for desktops". Don't know if that's ever going to be done, but I like the idea

I can guarantee you (without ever having seen Opera's source) that this will NOT be part of the core. This would just not work on small devices. Some OSs don't even allow such kind of multi-tasking.
You shouldn't expect that Opera has much to transfer through those pipes. If you look at Chrome, the main thread controls e.g. the loading of the web resources and the GUI. After a page has loaded the processes don't have to communicate (much).

Be assured that Opera will do this well IF they do it

PS: Your idea is actually working in the wrong direction. For Opera Mini the server takes the big load and loads and "pre-renders" (not really renders) the page. Thus you would create the same as we have already only that you get several pages that display something...

a) alpha/beta builds are not meant for productivity work
b) -1 for multiple processes. essentially see this discussion

Multi-threading features would be much better than MultIPrecesses.
They CAN develop one opera process. Inside of this process can be many threads for many tabs.
This feature is better because you can control use of memory by this threads. the situation wit multi processes some problems with it.

Originally posted by PositiveAlex:

Multi-threading features would be much better than MultIPrecesses.

Or can equivalently make opera task manager like any other browsers...

Originally posted by lucideer:

@mods Please close this duplicate thread

Seems like mods need to close the following thread
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=988852
Another duplicacy by me,, yeah lol!! Where are mods at this time

As per topic, multiprocess, i would vote no now to reeduce task crap, instead again will insist on tab manager

Plugins in a separate process YES
Tabs in the separate processes NO

Originally posted by artmil:

Plugins in a separate process YES
Groups of Stacked tabs in separate processes YES

FIXED!!

joezespak: if you quote people, don't change what they said. and don't proclaim you "fixed" their quote.

I would like to have process-per-tab design.
1. If one tab crashes, the whole browser will be able to continue working
2. If one tab has too much to do, the whole browser would still respond to user clicks and I will be able to work with other tabs while this one is loading.

Originally posted by PositiveAlex:

Multi-threading features would be much better than MultIPrecesses.
They CAN develop one opera process. Inside of this process can be many threads for many tabs.
This feature is better because you can control use of memory by this threads. the situation wit multi processes some problems with it.

What if one thread crashes?

Where is the option giving you a choice?

I fully support this, but only if you can disable it as well as fully customize it.

For instance: choose how many tabs per process to use. If I could do this I'd put 5 tabs per process - gives you some middle ground between huge system resource usage and crash protection.

Why is Flash isolated with operapluginwrapper on Linux, but not on Windows? operapluginwrapper.exe would be very nice

+1 I had done a request about the Opera crash system, see http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1000812

+1

If it is possible - I want to see parallel javascript processing.

Originally posted by PtDragon:

parallel javascript processing

You mean... on one website? Do you see any purposes in introducing such thing?

Originally posted by daroc:

Do you see any purposes in introducing such thing?

also: Web Workers are there for exactly that and already supported.

Originally posted by PtDragon:

If it is possible - I want to see parallel javascript processing.

This and only this. I don't want to see 50 processes in task manager just because I opened so many tabs.

This would be an amazing feature - as long as the increase of memory/cpu usage is not too huge and there is one first process/host process you can use to kill all process started by Opera using "end process tree".

Last thing I am not sure about: Do we need this feature? I don't feel Opera crashing often enough to be a reason for this large change in the programm structure - maybe IE really needs this feature, but Opera?

Shouldn't we deal with the cause not with the result?
(Flash/Java/other plugins/javascript engine)

But I agree fully with PtDragon and PoiMal

Originally posted by PoiMal:

Originally posted by PtDragon:

If it is possible - I want to see parallel javascript processing.

This and only this. I don't want to see 50 processes in task manager just because I opened so many tabs.

(And I'm also afraid of having more than 50 processes.)