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Linux Opera hates Verdana since 7.23
Since 7.23, Opera no longer renders CSS font directives properly. Instead of using the specified font Verdana, it uses my default font. Thus, even Opera's home page doesn't render correctly in Opera.I've tried using Opera on multiple machines w/o .opera directories and I'm wondering if anyone else out there using Debian with non-debianized freetype has encountered this bug each time. And it only seems to happen with the font Verdana. There have been some posts mentioning this bug but so far it doesn't look like anyone has pinpointed Verdana as the problem.
Based on some HTML hacking, it looks as though if one specifies the font Verdana anywhere in CSS, Opera will crap out on you and revert that element to the default face. Linux users, please try the following HTML and tell me if it works for you. If not, I hope this bug can be fixed
-----
<html>
<head>
<title>Crap test</title>
<style>
p.screwup {font-family: verdana, comic sans ms, arial, times, verdana, arial, sans-serif}
p.normal {font-family: comic sans ms, arial, times, verdana, arial,
sans-serif}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<p class="screwup">Here is some text.</p>
<p class="normal">Here is some more text.</p>
<p>The first paragraph should have rendered in the Verdana font if it is
available on the user's system. It does not on mine, even though I have the
font and can configure Opera to use it through the settings box but not through CSS. This page renders fine in all of my other browsers on my Linux system.</p>
</body>
</html>
verdana.jpg
I'm not on Linux right now, but I had no trouble with Verdana. Make sure the font is installed =/ Also, your CSS authoring is poor, this might have something to do with it. Try this code instead:
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<title>Crap test</title>
<style type="text/css">
/*<![CDATA[*/
#screwup {font-family: Verdana, Arial, "Comic Sans MS", sans-serif;}
#normal {font-family: "Comic Sans MS", Arial, Verdana, sans-serif;}
/*]]>*/
</style>
</head>
<body>
<p id="screwup">This should be Verdana.</p>
<p id="normal">This should be Comic Sans MS, even though that font is a Microsoft font, and shouldn't be on a Linux box.</p>
<p>This should be the default UA font (generally a serif font)</p>
</body>
</html>
Gentoo Linux | Opera 7.54u1 | Athlon XP 1700+ | 512mb DDR 333mhz RAM | ATI Rage 128
"My vocabulary is big!" - Unknown
"My vocabulary is big!" - Unknown
Hmm. Well, I guess I spoke too soon about Opera not working on my other machines. I just double checked both Apocalypse's XHTML and my correctly formatted HTML and they both work. I have no idea what's going on here with my laptop. It won't display Verdana unless it's in a <font> tag.
In a post called "Wrong font" on opera.linux (http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=opr26ng1d4crx14m%40news.opera.com&prev=/groups%3Fdq%3D%26num%3D25%26hl%3Dnl%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dopera.linux%26start%3D25) I also reported a problem with the Verdana font. I set the Verdana [microsoft] font to be the default sans-serif CSS font and then loaded a page that specified sans-serif for font-family. Opera renders the page using the Times New Roman [monotype] serif font, according to 'opera -debugfont'. Other people reported fonts not working. Turns out everytime the non-working font is the first font listed in the font-listing provided by 'opera -debugfont'. I think it is definitely an Opera bug. Verdana font works in for instance Firefox 0.8.
Reported as bug-136207. I'm on Fedora Core 1, Opera 7.23 shared.
See also:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=c0didv%24si1%241%40mx1.opera.com&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dopera.linux%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Dnl%26btnG%3DGoogle%2Bzoeken
Reported as bug-136207. I'm on Fedora Core 1, Opera 7.23 shared.
See also:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=c0didv%24si1%241%40mx1.opera.com&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dopera.linux%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Dnl%26btnG%3DGoogle%2Bzoeken
I'm glad someone else has encountered this bug. What's odd, though, is that it only happens on one of my machines even though they are both using the same version of freetype and Opera. I've also tried different versions of Verdana but no dice.
It will be kind of hard to get this fixed, however, since it doesn't appear to reliably occur. I just had to delete Verdana from my X fonts.
It will be kind of hard to get this fixed, however, since it doesn't appear to reliably occur. I just had to delete Verdana from my X fonts.
Originally posted by breun
In a post called "Wrong font" on opera.linux (http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=opr26ng1d4crx14m%40news.opera.com&prev=/groups%3Fdq%3D%26num%3D25%26hl%3Dnl%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dopera.linux%26start%3D25) I also reported a problem with the Verdana font. I set the Verdana [microsoft] font to be the default sans-serif CSS font and then loaded a page that specified sans-serif for font-family. Opera renders the page using the Times New Roman [monotype] serif font, according to 'opera -debugfont'. Other people reported fonts not working. Turns out everytime the non-working font is the first font listed in the font-listing provided by 'opera -debugfont'. I think it is definitely an Opera bug. Verdana font works in for instance Firefox 0.8.
Reported as bug-136207. I'm on Fedora Core 1, Opera 7.23 shared.
See also:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=c0didv%24si1%241%40mx1.opera.com&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dopera.linux%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Dnl%26btnG%3DGoogle%2Bzoeken
This bug has been reported since at least november 2000 (version 4.02!) and is still broken in 7.51final, 3½ years later:
http://list.opera.com/pipermail/opera-users/2000-November/000623.html
Will Opera ignore it forever? :-(
http://list.opera.com/pipermail/opera-users/2000-November/000623.html
Will Opera ignore it forever? :-(
Needless to say, this bug is still present in Opera 7.54.
To everyone at Opera: How can we help you find and fix this very annoying bug that has been plaguing us for nearly four years now? I refuse to believe that you are ignoring this major display bug that affects thousands of web sites.
To everyone at Opera: How can we help you find and fix this very annoying bug that has been plaguing us for nearly four years now? I refuse to believe that you are ignoring this major display bug that affects thousands of web sites.
I Have A Test Case
Hi all.I have wrestled for hours with this same bug. I honestly couldn't figure out what the problem was until I read this thread. You are all correct in that the bug is in the font & Opera. I don't think that it has anything to do with CSS, though. Opera can render the Verdana font for sure, & do it consistently, but it just can't do it with the author's pages & style sheets.
I have created a test case on 1 of my project sites. http://www.geocities.com/transitinformationpackages/verdanatest.html
Go ahead & follow the link, & then follow the instructions, & let me know what you think.
Sincerely, & with thanks,
Eugene T.S. Wong
Eugene T.S. Wong
Originally posted by sgunhouse
Strangely, Verdana seems to work fine in my Linux version. No, no idea why, and I'm not currently in Linux to check your test page, but I have tested it before.
It'll probably work if it is set as the default font through the style sheets and/or through your preferences.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, though. If I can confirm it, then I'll add it to the web page.
I'm getting a headache now, so I'll check it out later.
Would you be willing to test when you are in Linux?
Sincerely, & with thanks,
Eugene T.S. Wong
Eugene T.S. Wong
I don't know if you know the history of the Verdana issue ...
In prior versions, people reported that Verdana was not working properly. After some testing, Opera's techs determined that if Verdana was the "first font in the list" (not completely certain what that means), then it didn't work.
The procedure they described to check was as follows: open a terminal (with Opera not already running) and type
After some other messages, you'll see Opera start looking through your fonts, and rating them on the basis of how well they fit certain properties.
The description was that when looking for a suitable sans serif font, Opera would usually list Verdana first, followed by whatever other sans serif fonts are available. (Perhaps Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, Lucida Sans, etc.) Verdana would in fact have the highest rating, but would not be chosen simply because it was the first font found.
If this situation happens, then for some reason the Verdana font is completely unusable to Opera, and X will replace it with some other font without Opera's knowledge. So this very page (which requests Verdana, Helvetica or a generic sans serif font) would end up displayed in some completely different font, which might even be a serif or monospaced font.
I was fortunate I guess, this didn't happen on my machine - ever. After I installed Verdana, it worked fine. Of course, before I installed Verdana, I'd get Helvetica which generally looks pretty poor in Linux (though actually wasn't too bad on mine for some reason).
I have not seen an update on why Verdana caused these problems and whether they had found a solution, though I'd have to gather from the existence of this thread that they have not at this time.
So ... that's everything I can tell you about Verdana under Linux. It works for me and always has, but not for most others.
I wonder ... my Windows system is 98 SE. Some things happen on my system which do not happen on more recent systems. Example - quite possibly related - if I type in Symbol font, it displays as typed. So it could be that I have a different version of Verdana as well (an older version), and that this older version works while newer versions do not.
Like this ...
Due to my older version of Symbol font, the above text will actually display Greek on my Windows machine. Everyone else tells me they see it in English. Never looked at it under Linux though ...
In prior versions, people reported that Verdana was not working properly. After some testing, Opera's techs determined that if Verdana was the "first font in the list" (not completely certain what that means), then it didn't work.
The procedure they described to check was as follows: open a terminal (with Opera not already running) and type
opera --debugfonts
After some other messages, you'll see Opera start looking through your fonts, and rating them on the basis of how well they fit certain properties.
The description was that when looking for a suitable sans serif font, Opera would usually list Verdana first, followed by whatever other sans serif fonts are available. (Perhaps Arial, Helvetica, Bitstream Vera Sans, Lucida Sans, etc.) Verdana would in fact have the highest rating, but would not be chosen simply because it was the first font found.
If this situation happens, then for some reason the Verdana font is completely unusable to Opera, and X will replace it with some other font without Opera's knowledge. So this very page (which requests Verdana, Helvetica or a generic sans serif font) would end up displayed in some completely different font, which might even be a serif or monospaced font.
I was fortunate I guess, this didn't happen on my machine - ever. After I installed Verdana, it worked fine. Of course, before I installed Verdana, I'd get Helvetica which generally looks pretty poor in Linux (though actually wasn't too bad on mine for some reason).
I have not seen an update on why Verdana caused these problems and whether they had found a solution, though I'd have to gather from the existence of this thread that they have not at this time.
So ... that's everything I can tell you about Verdana under Linux. It works for me and always has, but not for most others.
I wonder ... my Windows system is 98 SE. Some things happen on my system which do not happen on more recent systems. Example - quite possibly related - if I type in Symbol font, it displays as typed. So it could be that I have a different version of Verdana as well (an older version), and that this older version works while newer versions do not.
Like this ...
Due to my older version of Symbol font, the above text will actually display Greek on my Windows machine. Everyone else tells me they see it in English. Never looked at it under Linux though ...
In Linux, it looks like English. Interesting ...
Oh, on your test page, I do know why the "h1" changes color, in that I can change the color myself. Not sure why it starts out with the color it had, and not sure if the changed color will be saved, but Opera is actually using the color I set for "Webpage <pre>" under Preferences, Fonts when I change it. (This is different, it used to ignore user selected colors completely.)
Oh, on your test page, I do know why the "h1" changes color, in that I can change the color myself. Not sure why it starts out with the color it had, and not sure if the changed color will be saved, but Opera is actually using the color I set for "Webpage <pre>" under Preferences, Fonts when I change it. (This is different, it used to ignore user selected colors completely.)
Originally posted by sgunhouse
I don't know if you know the history of the Verdana issue ...
I sort of heard of it. I skimmed through most of it. This thread seems to shed the most light on it.
In prior versions, people reported that Verdana was not working properly. After some testing, Opera's techs determined that if Verdana was the "first font in the list" (not completely certain what that means), then it didn't work.
The procedure they described to check was as follows: open a terminal (with Opera not already running) and typeopera --debugfonts
I tried this with Opera running. For me, I needed to use only 1 hyphen, not 2, but still. I found Verdana to be listed as the 1st font, & it was rated @ 12, while Arial was rated @ 15.
If this situation happens, then for some reason the Verdana font is completely unusable to Opera, and X will replace it with some other font without Opera's knowledge. So this very page (which requests Verdana, Helvetica or a generic sans serif font) would end up displayed in some completely different font, which might even be a serif or monospaced font.
Actually, it is very usable for me. When I use the user style sheets instead of the author's style sheets the Verdana works fine. This leads me to believe that X is serving the font correctly.
If Verdana is the author's non-default font & the author has coded a default font, then the Opera displays the author's default font. However, if Verdana is the author's non-default font & the author has not coded a default font, the Opera displays the user's default font, which should have been chosen in Preferences.
I really wish that a developer would work with us on this. Based on what people are saying, I sense that not many people truly understand the problem.
Regarding my test page & my preferences, I never changed the colour of
pre, thus it shouldn't change back & forth like that when we switch between modes. Don't get me wrong, though. I like it.
Sincerely, & with thanks,
Eugene T.S. Wong
Eugene T.S. Wong
Well, I submitted a bug report & pointed them to my page. After submitting, the web site, gave me this address [bug-149968@bugs.opera.com] to send in more information if I come up with anything later on. I assumed that they meant it for anybody who has information regarding that bug report, & not just me.
If any of you have information regarding that bug, but a different bug report, then please send it in through some other method.
If any of you have information regarding that bug, but a different bug report, then please send it in through some other method.
Sincerely, & with thanks,
Eugene T.S. Wong
Eugene T.S. Wong
If case sensitivity (Verdana versus verdana in CSS) is really the problem, I think Opera should stop seeing those as different fonts. Are there any fonts that are totally different but have the same name, only the first letter in different case? I think it'd be pretty rediculous to have an Arial and an arial font for instance. I'm unable to test if this is really case though. Can anyone confirm case sensitivity is the problem? Has this been reported to the bug address above?
I remember checking and it does work now. However, regarding capital V vs. small v, I think that it is supposed to be case sensitive. I know that this is the case with naming classes and IDs.Originally posted by sgunhouse
A user has reported that the current preview seems to fix the Verdana issue. Personally, for me Verdana always worked fine ...
Sincerely, & with thanks,
Eugene T.S. Wong
Eugene T.S. Wong
I noticed the verdana bug is still there in Opera 8.01 for Mac. For instance www.audioscrobbler.com has verdana,sans-serif as its font-family and renders in Times in Opera, but Verdana in Safari. Is it really necessary to use case sensitivity for these font names? Should I tell audioscrobbler to change their css to Verdana,sans-serif?