Unusual approaches to customer service on airlines

Unusual approaches to customer service on airlines

Does anyone have other stories like this one?

Holiday ruined

i was told that i had to pay for the extra weight of my baggage even though, according to the data on the ticket, i actually was under the max weight. well, i had to get a little loud to make 'em clear that the data comes from them and i simply won't pay for their mistake.

sorry, i forgot to mention that it was aeroflot

It is an unusual story, but nothing about Ryan Air's customer service skills would strike me as unusual. I have flown with them from Bournemouth a couple of times in the past without incident, but it's only the prices that get my custom.

I have a story that's quite different, but with KLM.

I booked a flight and I got a confirmation e-mail, and it being my first time with an e-ticket (I don't mean the self-printing type, so perhaps I should say online reservation? The airlines call it e-tickets anyway), I assumed that was all I needed. Turns out I was supposed to have gotten another e-mail and that the reservation number I received wasn't an actual e-ticket number. It was apparently a problem with their system. Even though I paid with iDeal it hadn't properly registered it.

The woman working for KLM quickly made a few calls, found out the problem was known, and within 5 minutes she'd gotten me a boarding pass with the notice that they were working on getting my connecting flight in order.

At the other side of the ocean things were less nice. Customs was making a fuss about my lack of a connecting flight ticket. Gee, if you want people to have all their tickets fixed up at customs, how about you stick those airline desks BEFORE customs, or otherwise shut the f*ck up about it. I was in luck in that I could see the desks from customs so I could point at the NWA desk and be like "well, if you want all ticket issues to be resolved you should put those desks before this checkpoint. I need to go to the NWA one over there." He grudgingly admitted that my logic was flawless, added a stamp to my passport and stapled this green immigration paper in a way that made it stick out (that crooked stapling is a recurring theme for visiting America btw).

So then I went to the NWA desk. I told the woman that KLM had messed something up with my reservation and that they should've fixed it by now. They told me they'd probably fix it in about 1-2 hours, so that probably would've been before the plane even left to begin with. She then asked if she could see this ticket I'd gotten in Amsterdam and said "you were late, weren't you?" I said something like "um no I just told you, KLM messed something up with my reservation because something went wrong with this payment system where my money was transferred but it didn't correctly pick it up" and she said "so you were late." I tried one or two times to explain the situation again and ended up saying something like "sure... could you get me my ticket for the connecting flight please?"

Her NWA computer didn't have me in it with my KLM e-ticket number, so she had to phone a colleague who did have access to KLM's booking system after which she could type in some code on the NWA computer which gave me my ticket. I still don't know why she couldn't have just typed my name, but oh well.

Following that I was in one of the emptiest and most comfortable planes I've ever been in. Wide seats, plenty of leg space...

------

Oh yeah, I have another story too. Well, lots of them, but most are relating to US customs. This one isn't, and it's actually on the topic of luggage.

I was going back to Amsterdam, through Heathrow. Customs & security in England took so long that by the time I got around the A-gates they'd already started boarding, so I hurried to the gate and got in. Only later did I discover that Heathrow is the absolute craziest airport in the world that should take a very, very good look at how they do things in a proper airport like O'Hare or Schiphol. Anyway, pretty much as soon as I was in the plane the pilot said something like "it looks like everyone's on board already, so we're taking off 30 minutes early, woo!" I remember thinking something like "good thing my luggage didn't have to go through 1 hour customs & security."

So we landed in Amsterdam, and I waited at the luggage belt, but my baggage didn't show up. As I was looking around about where to go/what to do precisely this guy working there came up to me in his cart and was like "can I help you?" So I said, "I just got here with British Airways flight BA217 [of course those numbers are bs I just made up]" and he said "that's the one from London?" and I was "yeah, does it make a difference?" He said "no, actually it doesn't. Anyway, you have to go to that office there."

So I went to that office and waited for 30 freaking minutes until it was finally my turn. And then it turned out that this was the KLM & partners lost luggage claim thing, and the BA was on the other side! I wasn't the only one misled and like 5 people behind me followed me to the other office where of course all the time no one had been waiting. Turns out my suitcase was still in London and it was scheduled to come toward Amsterdam in about 30 minutes on the next flight. Gee thanks.

So I scheduled a delivery for the next day between 9 and 12. That was all very decent, except for the fact that they actually came at 14. When I called them at 12:30 they said "oh, it's normal that they might run a little late." Sigh.

I'd also quote a little something my wife wrote, but I can't be bothered censoring it to comply with forum guidelines.

I still don't like Ryan Air, and I consider "print your own boarding pass" a step backwards shared with some other low-cost airlines.Who has a printer in this day and age? And even if you had, it would be unlikely to be available when travelling.

I prefer dispensing with boarding passes all together, just using the credit card you paid with at the gate. Unfortunately this seems to against international rules. Second-best are the boarding pass/luggage automats most airports seem to have these days. Why they can't serve every airline at a given airport is beyond me.

Originally posted by jax:

I prefer dispensing with boarding passes all together, just using the credit card you paid with at the gate. Unfortunately this seems to against international rules. Second-best are the boarding pass/luggage automats most airports seem to have these days. Why they can't serve every airline at a given airport is beyond me.

Since you often have to show your passport anyway (at least for international travel, which is what I do mostly) they might as well just scan them at the gate as they do at the ticket machines.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by jax:

I prefer dispensing with boarding passes all together, just using the credit card you paid with at the gate. Unfortunately this seems to against international rules. Second-best are the boarding pass/luggage automats most airports seem to have these days. Why they can't serve every airline at a given airport is beyond me.

Since you often have to show your passport anyway (at least for international travel, which is what I do mostly) they might as well just scan them at the gate as they do at the ticket machines.

The most convenient check-in I know is just that, showing your passport. That identifies you and thus identifies who should have the ticket. I've experienced this type of checkout a number of times with Easy Jet where sometimes you don't even have to show your reservation number, just pass your passport across and off you go. That gets you the Boarding Card which then has to be shown at the gate. As far as I know the only advantage of the boarding card is that it shows what seat you will be sitting in (sometimes) and the Gate number (sometimes) and the flight number, which is useful.The other function of the check-in is to identify the luggage with you so that you have some sort of hope of getting it back.

I seem to have persuaded myself that check-in is useful! Blast - I was hoping my train of what passes for thought would show that the boarding card is not necessary.

I suppose they could always put a small sticker on your passport.

Originally posted by string:

Unusual approaches to customer service on airlines

What it sounds like is that the flight was overbooked and the airline wanted to place the blame on the ticket holder to avoid paying a penalty.

The airlines and airports are already highly regulated. The regulators are not doing their jobs. The solution is to go through the regulators and eliminate the slackers.

Airlines play a lot of shyster tricks, such as overbooking, that is if you pay in advance you generally get a good deal. If the flight is full and if a person is willing to pay double or triple the price, the airline will sell the ticket in the hope that someone will give up a seat in exchange for a token.

Airlines are also criticized for at times having loaded plans sitting on a tarmac for hours at a time waiting for a take off slot. This is criminal and should be punishable under unlawful imprisonment. One airline thinks that bringing the plane back to a boarding gate after waiting on a tarmac for three hours is progressive.

The adding of luggage surcharges for the first and second luggage at check in is also deceitful and criminal. Such itemization should be included in the same font as the price and with the receipt.

I have never flown with Ryanair as I think they are con merchants and rather bloody minded. Add to the fact that several years ago they refused to accept soldiers ID for travel. Bloody marvelous the Irish buccaneer (always ranting about something on the media) who runs it and makes money out of us in the UK refuses our country's defenders. Anyone but that crowd gets my money.

This "print your own boarding card" syndrome just struck me. Wizz Air had the same idea, only by the added complication that they don't generate PDFs. My plane is leaving with little over an hour to go, and I am in the metro. The internet cafe on the way, that I need just about never, had turned into a pub. I spotted another one in a side street, so I got my passes printed out, the Prague public transport system is efficient and reliable, just jumped into the airport bus, so I am confident I will make the flight. Still, it is an additional layer of aggravation.

Weren't some also considering to allow you to display the picture on your phone, so you can skip the printing process?

Originally posted by jax:

...../ it is an additional layer of aggravation.

You put your finger on it - flying is stressful at the best of times unless you can settle into a habit where the booking process, the check-in process and the boarding process is the same each time. We don't as passengers, need that extra aggravation.

When you have to watch yourself every step of the way, like the Ryan Air bandits, then you can make mistakes and it will cost you, especially if you are with that antithesis of customer friendliness. By the way it costs £1 or €1 to go to the loo on Ryan air now, although that is so incredibly asinine that I am still not sure if it is an April fool joke or not; it fits though. My daughter, by the ways, i coming over to visit me from Spain this this weekend by Ryan Air, so at the moment I am not actually sure if she will make it since she can't really afford the toilet costs.

That definitely would have eased matters, and similar to what my bus line is doing. Question is why we need boarding passes on international flights to begin with.

Easily made it to the gate btw, to discover flight delayed of course. Don't like Prague Ruzyne airport much, but you get to the gate from the entrance in 10 minutes for Schengen countries. Security is a snap. If Obama hadn't left the airport several hours ago it might have been a different story though. Bet he didn't have any boarding pass.

Originally posted by string:

When you have to watch yourself every step of the way, like the Ryan Air bandits, then you can make mistakes and it will cost you, especially if you are with that antithesis of customer friendliness.

I gladly pay extra money not to fly Ryan, but sometimes there is no reasonable choice, like the Prague-Stockholm route.

Originally posted by jax:

That definitely would have eased matters, and similar to what my bus line is doing. Question is why we need boarding passes on international flights to begin with.

No clue. They don't even seem very useful for domestic flights, as I once almost got onto a plane to Detroit by accident at Minneapolis - St. Paul. They'd switched gates between Chicago & Detroit for some unknown reason in the 5 minutes since I'd last seen a screen with the gate number. Maybe the system hadn't properly realized the switch yet either.

As far as my experience with US customs goes, btw, over there they're the worst. Gee, I've visited a whole bunch of times already as I'm sure your system has all available with my fingerprints and everything, but maybe this time around I'll stay as an illegal immigrant since I can just live off of social security in America so I don't have to work or some such, America being this place with welfare even crazier than the UK... or maybe not.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

As far as my experience with US customs goes, btw, over there they're the worst.

They seem to switch between extreme paranoia and not giving a shit more or less at random, although they seem to be more likely to be paranoid with flights entering the and far more likely to not give a shit with flights leaving.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Gee, I've visited a whole bunch of times already as I'm sure your system has all available with my fingerprints and everything, but maybe this time around I'll stay as an illegal immigrant since I can just life off of social security in America so I don't have to work or some such, America being this place with welfare even crazier than the UK... or maybe not.

Yeah, people keep telling me those dastardly illegals manage to snarf something like $30000 a year from welfare. But when I ask them where I need to go to pull that off it's ...

Originally posted by Macallan:

They seem to switch between extreme paranoia and not giving a shit more or less at random, although they seem to be more likely to be paranoid with flights entering the and far more likely to not give a shit with flights leaving.

At O'Hare there seemed to be a plane full of Asian school children right in front of me. Of course since they barely spoke any English it took an hour (literally). By the time my plane was finally up (and I was pretty much in front of everybody else since I'd walked fastest through the 15 minute walk to get from the plane to customs) the guy could barely believe I was on a flight that came in an hour ago and he essentially did his business as fast as possible without asking annoying questions.

The UK is just as inane btw. The only thing they don't do there is take your fingerprints. As an EU citizen I'm alright there, but US citizens... maybe they're out for revenge, I don't know. Uh yeah, if we were some kind of terrorist sleeper cell, don't you think I, who wasn't even worthy of a glance while I was just an EU citizen, would do whatever terrorist things terrorists do? Have they never heard of the concept of tourism?

Originally posted by Macallan:

Yeah, people keep telling me those dastardly illegals manage to snarf something like $30000 a year from welfare. But when I ask them where I need to go to pull that off it's ...

That much huh?

Originally posted by Frenzie:

The UK is just as inane btw. The only thing they don't do there is take your fingerprints.

Last time I've been to London was in the 1990s - all they did was a quick glance at my ID card and that's it. German customs on the way back was MUCH more thorough. It was the same when we went to Prague - the czechs seemed to rely on german border police to do the job

Originally posted by Frenzie:

As an EU citizen I'm alright there, but US citizens... maybe they're out for revenge, I don't know. Uh yeah, if we were some kind of terrorist sleeper cell, don't you think I, who wasn't even worthy of a glance while I was just an EU citizen, would do whatever terrorist things terrorists do? Have they never heard of the concept of tourism?

Security by annoyance. You know, you catch bad guys by annoying the crap out of everyone else

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Yeah, people keep telling me those dastardly illegals manage to snarf something like $30000 a year from welfare. But when I ask them where I need to go to pull that off it's ...

That much huh?

Not much in NYC that's for sure but around here that kind of money would go a long way.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Security by annoyance. You know, you catch bad guys by annoying the crap out of everyone else

Also, only on flights to the US, they keep asking if you have any weapons on you.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Not much in NYC that's for sure but around here that kind of money would go a long way.

LoL when a fairly modest apartment is $3,000 a month it sure wouldn't, but over here you'd be able to live quite comfortably with something like that (case in point, we live on less). $30,000 is €22,000, so you rent a nice apartment for €1,000 a month and the remaining 10k will pay for things like electricity, food, etc. Add some illegal work a few days a week (they say it's easy) and you'll be living like a millionaire.

That leaves only one question though: how do these illegals collect their monthly $2,500 without being deported?

A neighbour of mine's daughter flew the coop and rented a modest flat for around £350 a month in a nice area and well equipped. Seems even more reasonable too me than £1,000 a month!

We live in a €550/month apartment which does just fine. My point was more regarding that you could get a pretty damn nice apartment for €1,000. £1,000 is closer to €1,200 btw. That said, under €500 you'd probably be looking at single-person stuff (not saying you couldn't live in it with two people, just that it would be rather cramped).

Or in other words, I was just illustrating how ridiculously much $30,000 would be, if any illegal had ever managed to extract that kind of money from welfare.

Originally posted by string:

My daughter, by the ways, i coming over to visit me from Spain this this weekend by Ryan Air, so at the moment I am not actually sure if she will make it since she can't really afford the toilet costs.

Well she got here - did not have to pay for the toilet though!

House upside down with the kids, thinking of going to Spain for a holiday. Busy.

Have fun!

Originally posted by Frenzie:

That leaves only one question though: how do these illegals collect their monthly $2,500 without being deported?

That's what I keep asking those who make the claim

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

That leaves only one question though: how do these illegals collect their monthly $2,500 without being deported?

That's what I keep asking those who make the claim

According to Belgian law I'm at risk for being deported to the Netherlands as soon as there's a chance that I might try to collect a single cent of Belgian welfare money, haha.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

That leaves only one question though: how do these illegals collect their monthly $2,500 without being deported?

That's what I keep asking those who make the claim

According to Belgian law I'm at risk for being deported to the Netherlands as soon as there's a chance that I might try to collect a single cent of Belgian welfare money, haha.

Kicked out across the open border
I'm paying taxes, social security etc. just like US citizens so I'm eligible for the same benefits in that regard. Yay greencard.
They can still kick me out for not filing income taxes though.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Kicked out across the open border

I'm not entirely sure how that'd be supposed to work anyway. What would they do with all my stuff? Even if they'd want to throw it all away (which I highly doubt would be legally justifiable), it'd probably still cost them more to properly get rid of it all than me collecting some extremely meager amount of welfare. Not that I intend to find out if the law is based on any kind of rational costs analysis.

Originally posted by Macallan:

I'm paying taxes, social security etc. just like US citizens so I'm eligible for the same benefits in that regard. Yay greencard.

They can still kick me out for not filing income taxes though.

The longer you stay the better things get in that regard. After 7 or 9 years or so you essentially gain the right to naturalization (here in Belgium), so who knows, if I'm still here by that time I might very well opt for that... I'm secretly hoping that Belgium will get rid of the single passport agreement the Netherlands has with Belgium, Germany, Italy, etc. so I could be both Belgian and Dutch, but in lieu of that I'm perfectly willing to stop being Dutch. Not that it brings me much except for just about any foreigner always asking me about pot. Well, nor that official nationality would stop me being Dutch.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Kicked out across the open border

I'm not entirely sure how that'd be supposed to work anyway. What would they do with all my stuff? Even if they'd want to throw it all away (which I highly doubt would be legally justifiable), it'd probably still cost them more to properly get rid of it all than me collecting some extremely meager amount of welfare. Not that I intend to find out if the law is based on any kind of rational costs analysis.

Laws like that rarely are - they only exist to please a certain kind of voters

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

I'm paying taxes, social security etc. just like US citizens so I'm eligible for the same benefits in that regard. Yay greencard.

They can still kick me out for not filing income taxes though.

The longer you stay the better things get in that regard. After 7 or 9 years or so you essentially gain the right to naturalization (here in Belgium), so who knows, if I'm still here by that time I might very well opt for that... I'm secretly hoping that Belgium will get rid of the single passport agreement the Netherlands has with Belgium, Germany, Italy, etc. so I could be both Belgian and Dutch, but in lieu of that I'm perfectly willing to stop being Dutch. Not that it brings me much except for just about any foreigner always asking me about pot. Well, nor that official nationality would stop me being Dutch.

Same here, although I could become a citizen after having that greencard for 3 years. I live here so I might as well vote here, it's not like I'm likely to go back to Germany any time soon. And about being a stranger in a strange land - I've been that most of my life, for different reasons though.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Laws like that rarely are - they only exist to please a certain kind of voters

Probably.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Same here, although I could become a citizen after having that greencard for 3 years. I live here so I might as well vote here, it's not like I'm likely to go back to Germany any time soon. And about being a stranger in a strange land - I've been that most of my life, for different reasons though.

Are you referring to the former DDR or something? (I just realized that pronounced in English this means Dance Dance Revolution to me and pronounced in Dutch/German the German Democratic Republic)

I've always been a "stranger" in the sense that my goals and ideals were quite different from essentially all of my (high school) friends and I've probably felt more European than Dutch to some extent as well (again, contrary to just about everyone I know), though I mean that in a semi self-deceptive sense where Europe means the Benelux + Germany. This is more related to my personal familiarity with these countries than anything else. With university students and the like I tend to have much less of such a disconnect, though right now I've placed myself in a position where I'm a speaker of standard Dutch Dutch among speakers of Brabantic dialect and standard Belgian Dutch. Simultaneously I'm a speaker of American English among speakers of British English, which makes me sort of a double outsider even among people who roughly share some of my interests. But I'd never have the issues this one guy I know has, who once told me that simply by looking Korean he'd never be able to feel truly Dutch.

Interestingly there's also the inclusive effect of the relatively large Dutch community in Antwerp and Belgium in general. I wouldn't be surprised if Dutch people were the largest group of immigrants living in Belgium, though of course we aren't the immigrants the right-wing parties get their panties all in a bunch about.

("DDR" in Norwegian is pronounced like "det det er", or "that that is". That allowed for lousy puns after unification like referring to it as "that that was".)

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Laws like that rarely are - they only exist to please a certain kind of voters

Probably.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Same here, although I could become a citizen after having that greencard for 3 years. I live here so I might as well vote here, it's not like I'm likely to go back to Germany any time soon. And about being a stranger in a strange land - I've been that most of my life, for different reasons though.

Are you referring to the former DDR or something?

No, not at all. Something entirely different. But now that you mentioned it - I was more at home in West Berlin than in the town where I grew up.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

(I just realized that pronounced in English this means Dance Dance Revolution to me and pronounced in Dutch/German the German Democratic Republic)

Or Double Data Rate if you're talking about RAM

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I've always been a "stranger" in the sense that my goals and ideals were quite different from essentially all of my (high school) friends and I've probably felt more European than Dutch to some extent as well (again, contrary to just about everyone I know), though I mean that in a semi self-deceptive sense where Europe means the Benelux + Germany. This is more related to my personal familiarity with these countries than anything else. With university students and the like I tend to have much less of such a disconnect, though right now I've placed myself in a position where I'm a speaker of standard Dutch Dutch among speakers of Brabantic dialect and standard Belgian Dutch. Simultaneously I'm a speaker of American English among speakers of British English, which makes me sort of a double outsider even among people who roughly share some of my interests. But I'd never have the issues this one guy I know has, who once told me that simply by looking Korean he'd never be able to feel truly Dutch.

Well, I learned british english in school, wife & family are from Buffalo so what I speak now is mostly northern US with british traces and an accent that nobody seems to be able to place

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Interestingly there's also the inclusive effect of the relatively large Dutch community in Antwerp and Belgium in general. I wouldn't be surprised if Dutch people were the largest group of immigrants living in Belgium, though of course we aren't the immigrants the right-wing parties get their panties all in a bunch about.

I ran into a single german in the almost 6 years I spent in the US so far.
Otherwise - yeah, nobody here seems to have the slightest problem with me the actually foreign guy. Instead they go after a co-worker of mine who looks slightly hispanic but was born in Michigan, his parents weren't immigrants either

Originally posted by Macallan:

No, not at all. Something entirely different. But now that you mentioned it - I was more at home in West Berlin than in the town where I grew up.

I don't think I have that, um, problem/feeling.

But I do feel more at home in former West Berlin than in former East Berlin.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Well, I learned british english in school, wife & family are from Buffalo so what I speak now is mostly northern US with british traces and an accent that nobody seems to be able to place

Brits seem to place me as American, but I still have a tendency to pronounce certain words (like all, mall, hall, etc.) too British-like, though I'm working on it. I'm fairly sure I don't do those -all words incorrectly anymore, but I'm sure there's other words here and there. It doesn't really help that plenty of American people (mostly from the north-east) also pronounce many things like Brits do, so I hear quite a bit of American English that's not quite what I'm aiming for. On the good side, some seemed to think I sounded like a Midwesterner making fun of a New York accent (that'd be prior to my adjustment of the -all words), though to a Midwesterner I have a slight foreign accent that's not quite placeable. I don't mind having a slight foreign accent, but other than that I'd rather be as Chicagolandish as possible in my speech.

Originally posted by Macallan:

I ran into a single german in the almost 6 years I spent in the US so far.

The mother of the new wife of my father-in-law is German, though I found her dialect harder to understand than her quite accented English. Apparently my father-in-law now thinks I can't speak German because I wasn't chatting with her in German all the time or something.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

No, not at all. Something entirely different. But now that you mentioned it - I was more at home in West Berlin than in the town where I grew up.

I don't think I have that, um, problem/feeling.

But I do feel more at home in former West Berlin than in former East Berlin.

See

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Well, I learned british english in school, wife & family are from Buffalo so what I speak now is mostly northern US with british traces and an accent that nobody seems to be able to place

Brits seem to place me as American, but I still have a tendency to pronounce certain words (like all, mall, hall, etc.) too British-like, though I'm working on it. I'm fairly sure I don't do those -all words incorrectly anymore, but I'm sure there's other words here and there. It doesn't really help that plenty of American people (mostly from the north-east) also pronounce many things like Brits do, so I hear quite a bit of American English that's not quite what I'm aiming for.

I think I know what you mean - there's a co-worker from Maryland who sounds kind of like that.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

On the good side, some seemed to think I sounded like a Midwesterner making fun of a New York accent (that'd be prior to my adjustment of the -all words), though to a Midwesterner I have a slight foreign accent that's not quite placeable. I don't mind having a slight foreign accent, but other than that I'd rather be as Chicagolandish as possible in my speech.

Well, I'm trying to avoid picking up any southern dialect. Also, almost all female co-worker told me at some point that they like my accent. So much for motivation to learn 'proper' english

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

I ran into a single german in the almost 6 years I spent in the US so far.

The mother of the new wife of my father-in-law is German, though I found her dialect harder to understand than her quite accented English. Apparently my father-in-law now thinks I can't speak German because I wasn't chatting with her in German all the time or something.

Oh, I can understand that. German dialects can be a bitch. Or more than one. I have serious trouble understanding most southern and south-western german dialects, as does pretty much everyone from the other end of the country. On the other hand, southerners will probably have the same kind of trouble with northern dialects.

Originally posted by Macallan:

I think I know what you mean - there's a co-worker from Maryland who sounds kind of like that.

Yup. It also manifests itself in things like dreamed/dreamt, by which I mean the difference in pronunciation rather than the spelling. The first being dreemed, the second more like dremt or dremd. As you might've guessed, the past tense of dreamed would be another word I used to mispronounce (according to the variety that I roughly try to speak). Another one is that I used to pronounce either (eether) like i-ther. None of such things impair people from understanding you, but they result in a certain inconsistency that only foreigners can have, until you become aware of them.

And I'd almost forget about obvious. It's o-vious, there's no b in there, ever. Fun, how the English teacher in high school insisted it required a clearly pronounced voiced b.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Well, I'm trying to avoid picking up any southern dialect. Also, almost all female co-worker told me at some point that they like my accent. So much for motivation to learn 'proper' english

At some point I started to pronounce all my "for"s like "fr", without being aware of it, and for some reason I also picked up the usage of ain't. I made a conscious effort to stop doing that since my wife told me I sounded like someone from southern Illinois (and they really do sound southern over there, but it's not like I ever did any kind of southern drawl, haha). I'm not even sure where I could've picked that up.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Oh, I can understand that. German dialects can be a bitch. Or more than one. I have serious trouble understanding most southern and south-western german dialects, as does pretty much everyone from the other end of the country. On the other hand, southerners will probably have the same kind of trouble with northern dialects.

Apparently they also have different words in the south, 'cause I asked for Sprudelwasser in a restaurant in Nuernberg and the guy just stared at me and said something like "wasser... wasser... do you want table water?" I tried again, "Sprudelwasser?" He replied, "I'm not sure what you want, but we have table water" and I said "das ist doch fast dasselbe? OK" and he just looked at me with this blank stare as if I spoke Chinese, so I said "yeah sure, table water will do." I think he just couldn't comprehend that I, in company of three Americans, wasn't speaking English to him or something.

I didn't have any problem communicating with any other Nuernbergers though, so I'm guessing it was just that guy. I did run into the Tafelwasser vs. Sprudelwasser issue more often, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up, but I mean they had no problem comprehending what I was saying safe for that variety of water. Still, I've ordered Sprudelwasser in Germany all my life without any issues. They didn't seem to know Mineralwasser either, plus I'm not really sure if "table water" really makes any sense in English. I don't think it does, but some Brits may disagree.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

I think I know what you mean - there's a co-worker from Maryland who sounds kind of like that.

Yup. It also manifests itself in things like dreamed/dreamt, by which I mean the difference in pronunciation rather than the spelling. The first being dreemed, the second more like dremt or dremd. As you might've guessed, the past tense of dreamed would be another word I used to mispronounce (according to the variety that I roughly try to speak). Another one is that I used to pronounce either (eether) like i-ther. None of such things impair people from understanding you, but they result in a certain inconsistency that only foreigners can have, until you become aware of them.

Yup, that guy from Maryland does all that

Originally posted by Frenzie:

And I'd almost forget about obvious. It's o-vious, there's no b in there, ever. Fun, how the English teacher in high school insisted it required a clearly pronounced voiced b.

Hmm, I pronounce the b, but I can't really remember if anyone else does or if that's just my memory messing around.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Well, I'm trying to avoid picking up any southern dialect. Also, almost all female co-worker told me at some point that they like my accent. So much for motivation to learn 'proper' english

At some point I started to pronounce all my "for"s like "fr", without being aware of it, and for some reason I also picked up the usage of ain't.

I heard plenty people from further north use ain't ( including inlaws )

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I made a conscious effort to stop doing that since my wife told me I sounded like someone from southern Illinois (and they really do sound southern over there, but it's not like I ever did any kind of southern drawl, haha). I'm not even sure where I could've picked that up.

My wife picks up more and more southernisms. Like fixin' as universal word for everything. If I ever say I'm fixin' dinner someone please shoot me.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Oh, I can understand that. German dialects can be a bitch. Or more than one. I have serious trouble understanding most southern and south-western german dialects, as does pretty much everyone from the other end of the country. On the other hand, southerners will probably have the same kind of trouble with northern dialects.

Apparently they also have different words in the south, 'cause I asked for Sprudelwasser in a restaurant in Nuernberg and the guy just stared at me and said something like "wasser... wasser... do you want table water?" I tried again, "Sprudelwasser?" He replied, "I'm not sure what you want, but we have table water" and I said "das ist doch fast dasselbe? OK" and he just looked at me with this blank stare as if I spoke Chinese, so I said "yeah sure, table water will do." I think he just couldn't comprehend that I, in company of three Americans, wasn't speaking English to him or something.

'Sprudelwasser' would be weird in Berlin but certainly understood. On the other hand, Berlin is full of people from all over the country and then some. Otherwise, yeah, there are words that are specific to certain dialects. Lots of them. And then there's austrian which consists of nothing but them and whatever you need for a german-ish grammar.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I didn't have any problem communicating with any other Nuernbergers though, so I'm guessing it was just that guy.

Most germans are perfectly able to understand standard german. The question is if they want to and if they can actually speak it

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I did run into the Tafelwasser vs. Sprudelwasser issue more often, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up, but I mean they had no problem comprehending what I was saying safe for that variety of water. Still, I've ordered Sprudelwasser in Germany all my life without any issues.

Well, the meaning is rather obvious

Originally posted by Macallan:

Hmm, I pronounce the b, but I can't really remember if anyone else does or if that's just my memory messing around.

Plenty of people do pronounce the b (and plenty don't but feel like perhaps they should), but I bet that most people who know how to pronounce Des Plaines won't pronounce a b in obviously nor will they feel like they're missing out on anything.

Originally posted by Macallan:

My wife picks up more and more southernisms. Like fixin' as universal word for everything. If I ever say I'm fixin' dinner someone please shoot me.

I think we cook dinner in this household.

Originally posted by Macallan:

'Sprudelwasser' would be weird in Berlin but certainly understood. On the other hand, Berlin is full of people from all over the country and then some. Otherwise, yeah, there are words that are specific to certain dialects. Lots of them. And then there's austrian which consists of nothing but them and whatever you need for a german-ish grammar.

Sprudelwasser is just the German word I learned for it when I was young, which would've been in the west of Germany. Presumably mostly around the Eifel, (near) Luxembourg and the Schwarzwald, though if my memory doesn't betray me I think it's also the main word for it around Kassel? I believe Mineralwasser may be the more common word in Berlin? Either way, if I said sparkling water instead of carbonated water or seltzer I doubt anybody would have trouble understanding me. I mean, words like sprudel and wasser are quite universal I'd think.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Most germans are perfectly able to understand standard german. The question is if they want to and if they can actually speak it

Well, I could understand him when he was talking to the other waiter. I had to exert effort to understand, like how I have to pay more attention to understand Geordies than to understand Americans or English people from the Midlands, so I'd think the reverse should be easier rather than harder; especially considering that I don't speak German nearly as well as I speak English.

Then again, I know a Geordie woman who has huge issues understanding a mutual Scottish acquaintance and I don't have such issues at all. I actually have more issues understanding her than the Scot, although his rolling r only seems to consist of one tap most of the time rather than the more usual (to me) two or three taps, so I have some trouble distinguishing his r from his d at times.

It may have been a matter of not wanting to understand though, like what you run into in Wallonia. The Flemish and Walloons are really strange in that regard.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Hmm, I pronounce the b, but I can't really remember if anyone else does or if that's just my memory messing around.

Plenty of people do pronounce the b (and plenty don't but feel like perhaps they should), but I bet that most people who know how to pronounce Des Plaines won't pronounce a b in obviously nor will they feel like they're missing out on anything.

Now we're getting into Iowa territory?
As if english pronunciation wasn't messed up enough as it is, let's throw in some more counter-intuitive place names

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

My wife picks up more and more southernisms. Like fixin' as universal word for everything. If I ever say I'm fixin' dinner someone please shoot me.

I think we cook dinner in this household.

Exactly. Sometimes I'd go so far and prepare it but that's where I draw the line

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

'Sprudelwasser' would be weird in Berlin but certainly understood. On the other hand, Berlin is full of people from all over the country and then some. Otherwise, yeah, there are words that are specific to certain dialects. Lots of them. And then there's austrian which consists of nothing but them and whatever you need for a german-ish grammar.

Sprudelwasser is just the German word I learned for it when I was young, which would've been in the west of Germany. Presumably mostly around the Eifel, (near) Luxembourg and the Schwarzwald, though if my memory doesn't betray me I think it's also the main word for it around Kassel?

Sounds about right ( not that I've spent any significant time in that area at all )

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I believe Mineralwasser may be the more common word in Berlin?

Or Selters. Yes, we can do genericized trademarks too

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Either way, if I said sparkling water instead of carbonated water or seltzer I doubt anybody would have trouble understanding me. I mean, words like sprudel and wasser are quite universal I'd think.

Exactly, it's not like it's in any way counter-intuitive.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Most germans are perfectly able to understand standard german. The question is if they want to and if they can actually speak it

Well, I could understand him when he was talking to the other waiter. I had to exert effort to understand, like how I have to pay more attention to understand Geordies than to understand Americans or English people from the Midlands, so I'd think the reverse should be easier rather than harder; especially considering that I don't speak German nearly as well as I speak English.

Actually I have more trouble understanding people speaking funky german dialects. Sure, this being the Appalachians, there are valleys with their own dialects which nobody who didn't grow up in that exact valley can understand but most people here seem to speak more or less 'standard' english with a more or less prominent accent. Unlike, say, schwäbisch or swiss german which don't have all that much in common with standard german even if you could get past the accent.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Then again, I know a Geordie woman who has huge issues understanding a mutual Scottish acquaintance and I don't have such issues at all. I actually have more issues understanding her than the Scot, although his rolling r only seems to consist of one tap most of the time rather than the more usual (to me) two or three taps, so I have some trouble distinguishing his r from his d at times.

Yeah, some people here apparently have trouble understanding that guy from Maryland.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Now we're getting into Iowa territory?

As if english pronunciation wasn't messed up enough as it is, let's throw in some more counter-intuitive place names

No, Illinois. It's actually very intuitive, at least if you forget any knowledge of French you might possibly have. I believe in Iowa places like Des Moins are actually pronounced more or less like they were French?

Originally posted by Macallan:

Actually I have more trouble understanding people speaking funky german dialects. Sure, this being the Appalachians, there are valleys with their own dialects which nobody who didn't grow up in that exact valley can understand but most people here seem to speak more or less 'standard' english with a more or less prominent accent. Unlike, say, schwäbisch or swiss german which don't have all that much in common with standard german even if you could get past the accent.

Certainly, but he wasn't really speaking Schwaebisch afaik; it was merely accented standard German, and I have no idea what Swiss German is like.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Yeah, some people here apparently have trouble understanding that guy from Maryland.

LoL

You will have heard about the volcano disrupting air traffic in Europe, well airlines are loosing a lot of money.

So I can hardly avoid being cynical about this type of report: Airlines 'unconvinced' by threat of dust cloud.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that my daughter was visiting us using Ryan Air - well they escaped back to Mallorca just before the dust "hit us". I was not so lucky, due to fly out this Monday (tomorrow) the flight is canceled and although I've rescheduled by one week even that looks unlikely at present. Naturally I want to make that flight but am not happy at all about airlines taking any risks whatsoever when it is known that aircraft have been brought down by such dust.

It may or may not be safe and there is a case for a technical investigation of that while this dust cloud persists to achieve guidance for the next time (the concept is that planes pass through the layer of dust to the clear sky above), but not as a result of wishful thinking by some money-counter in a plush airline office.

See here also: Europe's airlines and airports question flight bans

Originally posted by string:

Naturally I want to make that flight but am not happy at all about airlines taking any risks whatsoever when it is known that aircraft have been brought down by such dust.

I am not aware of that. Yes, there have been cases of all jet shutting down when hitting a volcano ash cloud, but the pilots have been able to get those motors started again several seconds before hitting the ground. Thus the number of aircraft downed by such dust is 0. No worries.

I shall remember that during the rapid descent!

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Now we're getting into Iowa territory?

As if english pronunciation wasn't messed up enough as it is, let's throw in some more counter-intuitive place names

No, Illinois. It's actually very intuitive, at least if you forget any knowledge of French you might possibly have. I believe in Iowa places like Des Moins are actually pronounced more or less like they were French?

According to someone I know from Iowa State University that is the case.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Actually I have more trouble understanding people speaking funky german dialects. Sure, this being the Appalachians, there are valleys with their own dialects which nobody who didn't grow up in that exact valley can understand but most people here seem to speak more or less 'standard' english with a more or less prominent accent. Unlike, say, schwäbisch or swiss german which don't have all that much in common with standard german even if you could get past the accent.

Certainly, but he wasn't really speaking Schwaebisch afaik; it was merely accented standard German, and I have no idea what Swiss German is like.

Lucky you, if he did you wouldn't have understood anything

Originally posted by Macallan:

Lucky you, if he did you wouldn't have understood anything

At least then his not understanding me would've made sense. I'll admit that I most likely do have a recognizable Dutch accent, but given that any other German I ever spoke to didn't have any trouble as long as I didn't have trouble thinking of the words...

Oh yeah, and they really confused me in Nuernberg by having a freaking bus as the "Straßenbahn." Made me doubt my sanity for a week until I could properly verify with a dictionary and a German friend that it does indeed mean "tram" like I thought.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Lucky you, if he did you wouldn't have understood anything

At least then his not understanding me would've made sense. I'll admit that I most likely do have a recognizable Dutch accent, but given that any other German I ever spoke to didn't have any trouble as long as I didn't have trouble thinking of the words...

There are plenty dutch people on german TV

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Oh yeah, and they really confused me in Nuernberg by having a freaking bus as the "Straßenbahn." Made me doubt my sanity for a week until I could properly verify with a dictionary and a German friend that it does indeed mean "tram" like I thought.

Told you they're weird down there
( yeah, there are a few words which mean completely, counter-intuitively different things in different parts of the country )

Originally posted by Macallan:

There are plenty dutch people on german TV

I know, there's probably more famous Dutch people in Germany than in the Netherlands, but I imagine that they speak better German than I do. Or at least better than I do at present and did a year ago. I suppose five years ago I was closer to their level, and I have to think more to come up with the proper German words. It's quite surprising how much of such things you lose when you don't practice them.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Told you they're weird down there

( yeah, there are a few words which mean completely, counter-intuitively different things in different parts of the country )

The bus/tram thing isn't too counter-intuitive I suppose, though it's a little weird when you can't find any trams at the main "tram" station and you walk up to the info counter and ask,

"Excuse me, where's line 5?"
"Right behind you."
"Yes, sorry, I meant tram line 5."
"Sir... that is a tram."
"Uh what!? It's a bus. Well never mind that. Does it go to the Nuernberg rally museum then?"
"Yes, it does. And I assure you, sir, it is a tram. I suppose you could also call it a bus."
"Right... thank you very much."

As you might imagine I entered the trambus being quite confused.

I wonder if I may have ended up on some kind of German notalwaysright.com Then again, I could hardly have been the first person to make that "mistake"

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

There are plenty dutch people on german TV

I know, there's probably more famous Dutch people in Germany than in the Netherlands, but I imagine that they speak better German than I do.

Those I remember from the time when I still watched TV still had more or less recognizable accents.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Or at least better than I do at present and did a year ago. I suppose five years ago I was closer to their level, and I have to think more to come up with the proper German words. It's quite surprising how much of such things you lose when you don't practice them.

I know what you mean - I learned russian in school, was not all that bad at it but forgot most of it for lack of practice.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Told you they're weird down there

( yeah, there are a few words which mean completely, counter-intuitively different things in different parts of the country )

The bus/tram thing isn't too counter-intuitive I suppose, though it's a little weird when you can't find any trams at the main "tram" station and you walk up to the info counter and ask,

"Excuse me, where's line 5?"
"Right behind you."
"Yes, sorry, I meant tram line 5."
"Sir... that is a tram."
"Uh what!? It's a bus. Well never mind that. Does it go to the Nuernberg rally museum then?"
"Yes, it does. And I assure you, sir, it is a tram. I suppose you could also call it a bus."
"Right... thank you very much."

As you might imagine I entered the trambus being quite confused.

Anyone from - say, Berlin - would be just as confused.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Those I remember from the time when I still watched TV still had more or less recognizable accents.

I mean more in vocabulary than in accent. I can clearly hear the Dutch accent on (most) Dutch people and frankly I rather hope I don't have it as strongly as some of them. If nothing else at least I'm better at pronouncing the German t and l.

Originally posted by Macallan:

I know what you mean - I learned russian in school, was not all that bad at it but forgot most of it for lack of practice.

I didn't learn German in school, otherwise I'd probably have forgotten it completely by now (like French).

Originally posted by Macallan:

Anyone from - say, Berlin - would be just as confused.

Good to know.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Those I remember from the time when I still watched TV still had more or less recognizable accents.

I mean more in vocabulary than in accent. I can clearly hear the Dutch accent on (most) Dutch people and frankly I rather hope I don't have it as strongly as some of them. If nothing else at least I'm better at pronouncing the German t and l.

I think at least some of them do it intentionally

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

I know what you mean - I learned russian in school, was not all that bad at it but forgot most of it for lack of practice.

I didn't learn German in school, otherwise I'd probably have forgotten it completely by now (like French).

I think we both learned English at school - should have forgotten it by now
Oh, wait, Lovecraft & Pratchett made me learn more instead

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Anyone from - say, Berlin - would be just as confused.

Good to know.

They probably do it just to annoy the Saupreissn

Originally posted by Macallan:

I think at least some of them do it intentionally

Well yeah, it's Rudi Carrell's trademark.

Originally posted by Macallan:

I think we both learned English at school - should have forgotten it by now

Oh, wait, Lovecraft & Pratchett made me learn more instead

Well, I did HAVE German and English in school... but that was mostly a distraction from actually learning the languages. French never interested me, so I learned about as much of that as I needed to pass the class. At least in the 4 years I had it with this horrible teacher. I had it with a different teacher who somehow managed to motivate me in my second year of French, so that's probably where I learned all the French that I do know.

Originally posted by Macallan:

They probably do it just to annoy the Saupreissn

Wouldn't surprise me - had to ask a German friend what that meant though.

It seems that Ryan Air is thinking about airliners with passengers standing up.

In case you think this is a (bad) joke, look at the Ryan Air website.

That website, by the way, claims that Ryan Air is "The World's Favourite Airline"; but not my favourite, I'm afraid.

If they design those standing leany things right I'd say it could be more comfy than the actual seats. But I'm speaking as a tall person.

I think the bar stool thing is a good idea on planes, if the price is right.

I'd certainly be willing to use them for flights of 1 to 2 hours or so, though probably not with Ryan Air...

I see that iffy lot Ryanair are talking about ripping out a couple of dozen rear seats for people to stand with hand hangers from the roof and something to lean against. They have been warned this is not allowed but the pirate that runs it says he is going ahead? Surely this is stupid and dangerous and it's about time someone stood up to this man. I would never travel with that lot.

Ah Ryanair... what a wonderful company. True capitalism at its finest.

Originally posted by string:

That website, by the way, claims that Ryan Air is "The World's Favourite Airline"; but not my favourite, I'm afraid.

I seriously doubt their any individuals "favourite", but the world loves cheap. Apparently.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

If they design those standing leany things right I'd say it could be more comfy than the actual seats. But I'm speaking as a tall person.

To be perfectly honest, I'd happily go for a bar stool (on any airline).

Originally posted by lucideer:

To be perfectly honest, I'd happily go for a bar stool (on any airline).

The main issue is that there's often neck "support" which pushes my shoulders forward, making any way of sitting uncomfortable, so certainly, no back seat, just a plain straight piece of wood under a slight angle... just about anything that doesn't do that would be an improvement. That most certainly includes barstools. The type of seat that I can enjoy is often employed at KLM and American; a more or less straight, soft back seat with an adjustable head support. Although I should add that the highest stance is still too low, but it's a heck of a lot better than anything else. Basically I'd say it's more like a car seat. Trains and cars usually have comfortable seats, and especially in trains they often look über-cheap, so frankly it can't be that hard.

It is not natural to pack hundreds of people into an aluminium tube and hurl them through the air.
God in Her wisdom believes that this blasphemy should be punished, but somehow ended up punishing not the packers, but the packees.
Any trip longer than fifty minutes takes a dreadful toll. My legs cramp and my ankles swell. My toes go numb. The muscles that cushion those sharp bones in my backside give up and let the bones poke through. Small creatures crawl around my groin, threatening to bite. My left eyelid twitches. Hair grows on my teeth. I try desperately not to fart, but the passenger next to me farts with evident enjoyment. Volumes have been written about the execrable refreshments that are served to divert our attention from our torment and I couldn't describe them better, but I rarely get an opportunity to use the word "egregious" so I'll use it here. On some flights there are T.V. screens that you can't avoid unless you bury your head in the pocket in the back of the seat in front of you.
Hell is not fire and brimstone, whatever your priest tells you. Hell is a thirteen-hour flight across the Pacific from Mexico with the sudden onset of Montezuma's Revenge. Trust me. I know.

Originally posted by garydenness:

It is an unusual story, but nothing about Ryan Air's customer service skills would strike me as unusual.

What a bunch of whiners! If mankind had depended on the bunch of you to populate the Earth, there'd only be a confused tribe wandering aimlessly around North Africa looking for a train schedule.

Originally posted by OnetimePoster:

Any trip longer than fifty minutes takes a dreadful toll. My legs cramp and my ankles swell. My toes go numb. The muscles that cushion those sharp bones in my backside give up and let the bones poke through. Small creatures crawl around my groin, threatening to bite. My left eyelid twitches. Hair grows on my teeth. I try desperately not to fart, but the passenger next to me farts with evident enjoyment.

That's why I get up now and then to walk around a little, stretch my limbs, etc. I certainly don't want to increase the chances of thrombus by flying.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

What a bunch of whiners! If mankind had depended on the bunch of you to populate the Earth, there'd only be a confused tribe wandering aimlessly around North Africa looking for a train schedule.

Or perhaps I'd invent the first soft mattress to make love on and attract ladies from miles around who can't wait to try this pleasant invention.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Or perhaps I'd invent the first soft mattress to make love on and attract ladies from miles around who can't wait to try this pleasant invention.

No doubt, you'd be an instant hit with the local ladies.

If that is a Michigan woman I might rethink making a third trip to the Ex-Colonies and go further north to Canada. As for Ryanair, I would never use them. That arrogant and mouthy boss it has is a pain in the arse and is always the worst for finding sly extras to charge you. It will never get my money.

The only budget airline i have been with is Wizzair, to Poland. They were OK.
Delta Airlines were pretty good. Never really had a negative flying experience so far.
Being delayed is a pain, but i suppose its more drinking time. lol
Theres never much space to eat food on a plane. Strange experience, the whole 'elbow scenario'.

I don't think Delta is a budget airline.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I don't think Delta is a budget airline

It isn't? I thought it was THE budget transatlantic airline.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

If that is a Michigan woman I might rethink making a third trip to the Ex-Colonies and go further north to Canada.

Canada is nice.
Miss Canada Supplicants

Originally posted by lucideer:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I don't think Delta is a budget airline

It isn't? I thought it was THE budget transatlantic airline.

Maybe if you fly from Ireland or if you want to have a 20 hour layover. Certainly not any of the times I crossed the Atlantic. *shrugs*

I have already said noting string's comment that I have no time at al for Ryanair or the man who runs it. They recently had to be forced to reimburse people something they fight like mad not to do. He constantly tries to push boundaries and this latest utter stupidity is typical. He has been told he is clashing with regulations but is removing seats. He deserves to be heavily dealt with. I would never use Ryanir they are con merchants.

This is actually an advertisement for the DVD, but it is quite funny and very, very near the mark.