Where is the Menu Bar? - Can't find it after update to 10.51

Where is the Menu Bar? - Can't find it after update to 10.51

Hi,

The new update seems fine, and all my customizations also seem intact, except that the Menu Bar (the one who used to be at the top) is gone. I can't find it anywhere... The Menu Bar was very useful. Note that I use windows and not tabs (I think tabs is a waste of space).

How do I get back the Menu Bar?

To see how my browser looks now, see the attachment (only the Menu Bar at the top is missing).

LostMenuBar.JPG

Thanks

Originally posted by Tamil:

Originally posted by Inocybe:

How do I get back the Menu Bar?

Press Alt key > Show Menu Bar

Title bar will hide if you use Windows XP default theme and disable menu bar.

There is my sweet Menu Bar Thank you!!

Why isn't it possible to find this option trough any of the menu's? I have searched and searched. Any comments?

PS! I haven't done anything to "hide the Menu Bar". It was suddenly gone.

Try Help (F1), Menus

In other words, all people like me (who don't use tabs) won't have a clue whats going on after updating(?) I couldn't magically know that Opera had done this. In my opinion Opera could at least have added an option in the Customizations -> Toolbars so that we also could figure this out. Not everyone use/know all the shortcut keys either. ...just a comment to Opera.

I REALLY hope that Opera is still going to support us who prefer using windows and not tabs. Already it's a lot of work to get it to work, and even then, it's not working 100%. Like, if I press F1, a new tab opens, even though my browser is set up to use windows. And, if I right-click a link, I still get the option to open in new tab. I have to manually remove some of the lines in one of the files to remove the last one.

But thanks, my Opera works as "normal" now (after just a little testing)

Even without the tab bar and therefore without the big O icon, the Alt key will bring down the menus, just as it does in just about every other Windows program.

Originally posted by Pesala:

Even without the tab bar and therefore without the big O icon, the Alt key will bring down the menus, just as it does in just about every other Windows program.

I never* use short-cut keys, even though I have used Windows since Win95. Call it a bad habit, that's OK... I have never found it slow to use menus. Do you think that most people out there who use Windows, use short-cuts?? I don't think so.

*Except when using Steinberg Cubase and Logic Audio (the audio keys), and laptop function keys.

@Inocybe: the number of people who use shortcuts is probably higher than those who have disabled the tab bar But the overlap between the two groups is not complete, so I can understand some people being surprised. Note that to make it more obvious, the first-run page you get after upgrade shows a screenshot with this button and the dropped down menu: http://portal.opera.com/startup/

Originally posted by Rijk:

@Inocybe: the number of people who use shortcuts is probably higher than those who have disabled the tab bar But the overlap between the two groups is not complete, so I can understand some people being surprised. Note that to make it more obvious, the first-run page you get after upgrade shows a screenshot with this button and the dropped down menu: http://portal.opera.com/startup/

You may be right there I probably have one foot in both groups.

You refer to the first-run page showing the new button and it's drop-down menu, but doesn't that require the visitor to actually "have" the button? Like my customized Opera, it haven't looked similar to any Opera screenshot in years Classic windows theme, 9-something Opera-theme, no tabs, no bottom bar, no left bar etc. That is one "problem" with having such a customizable browser as yours

Nice to hear that the overlap is not complete. Hopefully (please) you will also solve the windows vs tabs problems too (not bugs).

BTW! Thinking loud; When the focus is so much on saving screen space on small widescreen notepads, for example, why does so many use tabs? The new Opera tabs (with screen thumbnails) and the bottom bar leaves only a small amount of the screen free to view internet pages. To me the new Opera button doesn't do much to help, in comparison. I fully understand using tabs on a big stationary widescreen, where the hight is no longer a problem. How many 14" laptops today have such a big available space for internet pages as my screenshot above (1024x764), or isn't that important?

Wide-screen users put their tabs on the side. I use 1280x1024 standard aspect ratio, and use the tabs, without the menus. The tabs now take no space at all because they now use the space that was wasted with the title bar. I always maximize my window, but if you want to drag windows around, when restored the title bar has a 13 pixel drag area to use. Drag Area and Maximized Drag Area of 1 pixel for restoring the window with double-click. These default values can be changed. (Yes, Opera is too customisable. It can lead to support problems because almost no one uses the default setup — plus there are different Operating Systems and minor differences between Opera on a different OS.

Originally posted by Pesala:

Wide-screen users put their tabs on the side. I use 1280x1024 standard aspect ratio, and use the tabs, without the menus. The tabs now take no space at all because they now use the space that was wasted with the title bar. I always maximize my window, but if you want to drag windows around, when restored the title bar has a 13 pixel drag area to use. Drag Area and Maximized Drag Area of 1 pixel for restoring the window with double-click. These default values can be changed. (Yes, Opera is too customisable. It can lead to support problems because almost no one uses the default setup — plus there are different Operating Systems and minor differences between Opera on a different OS.

Sounds like a good idea.

I am doing a lot of web-programming (not much into OS software, as you may have figured out), and the trend now is leaning on around 960px or floating width of webpages. 960px fits a large percentage of modern screens (from 1024px, with a little room for scrollbars and small sidebars), but floating pages may have problems on high resolution widescreens (like, text-lines get to long). So putting the tabs on the side on a widescreen, especially on a small one, makes a lot of sense. Especially, as I mentioned, many pages have a fixed width and therefore, would have a lot of emty space on the sides.

Maximizing would also help a lot, I guess But then you would have to go down to normal from time to time, wouldn't you.

You say "Wide-screen users put their tabs on the side", but, when watching others browsing using their small widescreen laptops, most of them(that I have seen) use the default settings, making the available space for pages very small (height-wise). IE, Firefox, Opera etc. use a lot of space as default. Maybe that's their choice, who am I to judge...

I paid a large premium last time I bought a laptop (a Lenovo T60) to NOT get a widescreen, but now I don't think any manufacturer make anything else than widescreens.

Originally posted by Pesala:

Even without the tab bar and therefore without the big O icon, the Alt key will bring down the menus, just as it does in just about every other Windows program.

not always... i had to exit and restart.

Originally posted by Pesala:

Even without the tab bar and therefore without the big O icon, the Alt key will bring down the menus, just as it does in just about every other Windows program.

And which of "just about every other Windows program" are we talking about here? If I'm using, e.g., Word (2003), pressing Alt just sets the focus into the menu bar (the "File" selection). Firefox, same. Visual Studio 2008 same. Notepad, same. So what the heck are you talking about?

Personally, I find no "big O" on my tab bar and if I right-click on the tab bar, select "Customize" and "Reset toolbar to its defaults" I still don't get a "big O" icon. The help page Pesala linked to says that the "big O icon" is at the "top left of the browser". 'Fraid not! I put my tab bar at the bottom, so if it's supposed to be in the tab bar, then I should expect to find it there not at the top. As it is, when I first read the help on menus I looked at the "top left of the browser" and found an "O" icon, i.e., the system icon in the title bar of the window, which had the choices Restore, Move, Size, Minimize, Maximize and Close -- not at all what the help page suggests.

Beyond which, why is Opera being so illogical as not putting the selection of menu-bar or not in the Appearance dialog, where, IMNSHO, one might expect to find options that affect the appearance of the browser. My opinions are rarely humble enough, but IMO, that's just stupid.

I've been recommending Opera to people for years and years and one of the biggest points that I have always made has been how easy it is (was?) to customize Opera to work like YOU want it to work. Frankly, with version 10.5, I'm no longer convinced that I can make that argument. Opera controls have been set up pretty logically, but this change severely breaks the logic.

I'm not planning to drop using Opera myself (at least not immediately or just because of this), but I don't think I can recommend it to anyone else with the current version. And frankly, until I managed to get my menu bar back, I was beginning to wonder if I'd need to switch to Firefox. I don't "hate" the panels -- it's not worth "hating" UI elements, especially when using them has not been required -- but I don't use the panels. Personally, I just find them less convenient FOR ME than the menu bar, especially since the only panel I have found any use for would be the bookmarks, which I find more convenient from the menu bar. But that's just me. I have developed my own methods and I have always recommended to everyone else that they develop their own methods. Opera has heretofore been very supportive of that philosophy. Opera has been very customizable. Hiding "appearance" related choices such that they do not show up in the Appearance dialog, but rather in a "Main Menu" that, pace Pesala, does not work at all like "just about every other Windows program" strikes me as a large step backwards.

Yr humble servant (though less humble than I ought to be),
Paul

Originally posted by prn:

Alt just sets the focus into the menu bar

You're just quibbling. The alt key is used to pull down the menus. In IE, since it is hidden, it displays it. In Opera, since the menu bar is hidden, it displays it. If the menu bar is not hidden it focuses it.

The first logical thing a user should do to find the menus is press the Alt key. Immediately they would see the button menu even if the page bar is not in its default position, and if it is turned off.

Obviously the help menu and the welcome to Opera page will show the default setup.

Originally posted by prn:

I put my tab bar at the bottom, so if it's supposed to be in the tab bar, then I should expect to find it there not at the top.

And that's where the big O icon is if your tab bar is not in the default position, but at the bottom.

Originally posted by prn:

I looked at the "top left of the browser" and found an "O" icon,

And how you mistake that for the big O icon shown in help is beyond me.

Originally posted by Pesala:

Originally posted by prn:

Alt just sets the focus into the menu bar

You're just quibbling. The alt key is used to pull down the menus. In IE, since it is hidden, it displays it. In Opera, since the menu bar is hidden, it displays it. If the menu bar is not hidden it focuses it.

The first logical thing a user should do to find the menus is press the Alt key. Immediately they would see the button menu even if the page bar is not in its default position, and if it is turned off.

OK. So by "just about every other Windows program" you mean IE. Not Word. Not Notepad. Not Visual Studio. Just the (very) few that allow you to hide the menu bar, a feature that probably not very many users have ever even heard of. I've been using windows since version 3.0, starting in 1990 or 1991 and have never even considered turning off the menu bar. (And I do use lots of keyboard shortcuts, etc.) So using "Alt" to turn the menu bar on is not the first thing that comes to my mind.

Furthermore, if emulating IE (and why the #^(% should Opera want to do THAT?) is the goal here, then it may be worth noting that in both IE and Firefox, right-clicking on any toolbar shows a pop-up menu with checkboxes for all toolbars, including the menu bar. If Opera wants to be able to hide the menu bar, such a pop-up might make sense. Certainly putting it in the Appearance dialog with all the other toolbars ought to make sense.

Originally posted by Pesala:

Obviously the help menu and the welcome to Opera page will show the default setup.

I have no objection at all to showing the default setup, but saying "the top left of the browser" is unnecessarily default-centric. And hold on here! Is the "big O" supposed to be on the page bar (do you mean "Address bar"?) or the tab bar? What I read above in this thread is that it lives on the tab bar, but now you say "page bar". If it's supposed to be one or the other, then whoever wrote the help file ought to say which rather than just "top left". Not that it would help if it really is supposed to be on the page bar/Address bar since resetting that toolbar to its default doesn't make the "big O icon" show up in my browser either.

Originally posted by Pesala:

Originally posted by prn:

I put my tab bar at the bottom, so if it's supposed to be in the tab bar, then I should expect to find it there not at the top.

And that's where the big O icon is if your tab bar is not in the default position, but at the bottom.

Sorry. You have not been reading. The "big O icon" is not at the "top left". Nor is it at the bottom. It is NOWHERE on my browser. I don't know why and I'm not all that sure that I care. If appearance options were in the Appearance dialog (where they belong) then it really would not matter where or whether I have a "big O icon" or not. I would be able to access the menu bar from a much more obvious place than "Alt".

Originally posted by Pesala:

Originally posted by prn:

I looked at the "top left of the browser" and found an "O" icon,

And how you mistake that for the big O icon shown in help is beyond me.

I did not say that I mistook it. I said that the system icon at the top left in the title bar is the ONLY "O" icon that shows up ANYWHERE in my browser. And the fact that it actually does show up at the "top left" (while the "big O icon" does not show up anywhere) simply highlights the incoherence of the help page.

Paul

Originally posted by cocopuff:

and pesala, you have to stop dismissing people's complaints as 'quibbling'.

I dismissed as “quibbling” the fact that the Alt key doesn't actually pull down the menus, (until the user presses another key). My point was that the Alt key is used to access the menus in just about every Windows program including Word, Notepad, etc., therefore the most obvious thing to do to access the menus if you don't see them is to press the Alt key. The next most obvious thing to try is to press F1 for help.

Originally posted by cocopuff:

nobody ever told me about the big red 'o'.

Its right there on the Welcome to Opera page, and in the Help file — always the first place to look if you get stuck with a new program — press F1.

Hiding the menu is certainly not making the browser bloated — its adding a feature that many of us have been using for years and making the GUI less bloated. Opera has had the option to disable the menu for as long as I can remember.

Originally posted by cocopuff:

hair-brained 'improvements'.

Improvements like hiding the menus and using the Windows Title bar are certainly not ‘hare-brained” — they have been requested by users for years. Custom Menu buttons have long been available on the Opera Wiki and on other Opera support sites.