The reason why Opera is less popular than Firefox

The reason why Opera is less popular than Firefox

Firefox girl

We need Opera girl. Viral marketing will do the rest

I think Opera is less popular than Firefox because people who simply don't want to give Microsoft the satisfaction of getting yet another Internet Explorer user look on the web for information about browser popularity to find an alternative. They see that in second place is Firefox, assume word of mouth has made the browser sound so good as to get it second place behind Internet Explorer, so they download it, feel satisfied with it, and stick with it.

I was happy with Firefox until it started freezing intermittently, then I tried Opera, loved it more than Firefox, IE, Safari or Netscape, and I haven't looked back. I do have all four browser installed, however. I haven't tried Google Chrome, especially after it was found that Google's tool bar was tracking users even if people had configured their options to not allow that. I don't like Google that much, but they seem to return search results that other search engines leave out. I think, however, I'm going to configure another default search engine and use Google only when I'm desperate.

Originally posted by brumal:

{Image of naked woman}

Just what we need: yet another naked woman. Am I the only one who goes out fully dressed anymore?

http://opera.spreadshirt.net/ d.i.y.!

Originally posted by serious:

http://opera.spreadshirt.net/ d.i.y.!

Hopefully, there will be free gifts T-shirts for Opera fans

Originally posted by lince:

Don't forget to bring back the Super Operaman for the ladies.

Wait... a Black Power Ranger* guy with a cape....??????? When was it? Why did I miss it?


It's not a bad Idea... Mighty Opera Standards Rangers or something...

Also, for naked girls, let's leave that to the internet(s), they can do much better...


*Note before I'm accused of racism or something (as a mod has previously misread and banned my comments) Black as in Black (Power) Ranger, not as a peyorative.

also I'm all for pushing the Nintendo Wii Internet Channel Ninja --here a scaled-up version that I made for my desktop (not sure who has the IP on that one though )

I think a campaign idea to compete with the Firefox Girls could have the theme of "Show us your O-face".

The majority of nerds will recognise the reference and for that reason I think they would embrace it.

firefox WAS goo d- but as for now - Opera is best for both - n00bs and pros, with good settings, it makes browsing easy for complete technophobes, whenever i have to set up a system for elder people or similar, use OPera - it checks mail for them , they have speeddial for both needed pages etc.
on the other hand - all of my friends use opera for the cool features and great usability - mousegestures allow me up to 50 pageviews per minute^^

now reports in the media are coming "opera 10.50 is better" so in the next years percentage of Opera users will increase.

Originally posted by bleicher:

now reports in the media are coming "opera 10.50 is better" so in the next years percentage of Opera users will increase.

That's optimistic. I think those who are ignorant are easily influenced. Those who are less ignorant are loyal. Very few will jump camp, just like a football fan would rarely switch teams.

there isn't really that much "not ignorant" folk out there - 80% have close to now idea of "computer working" so they will do what "big brothers say". and having unexperienced users on opera is less nervkilling for obvious reasons.

also - whenever someone switches to opera, he tries to convince others to do the same - i have brought 5 people to Opera, 2 of them have convinced another 3 - and its going on. you will switch as soon as you compare - Opera is just to good, and there are no divorce papers to worry about

and by the way - furrfox cant get "pregnant" - Opera "can". we are bound by OperaLink^^

Well, as Opera's popularity increases, so will the tendency of nefarious programmers to try to exploit some vulnerability.

many people who using Firefox. they don't know how different between firefox and IE. (I bet it must over 30% of Firefox User maybe over 50%)

they use it because anti-IE and Opensource trend and their friends told them firefox is excellent. but how ? even some teller can't answer this question.

so, Opera is growing in a silence corner since Browser war between IE and NS.

As far as I know, Opera never has been #1 or #2. That's not because it isn't good; it's because not enough people have tried it. If Opera ever does get something like a 30-40% share of the number of users, there'll probably be something even better that crops up with a small share. You know, like when some kid who can't find a browser he likes today eventually learns enough about programming to write a sleek browser that has everything all the current browsers have, but with better implementation. It might take ten years, but eventually, some other browser is going to pull users from all the other browsers, and then the browser wars continue.

I've always assumed it was because Opera didn't have a huge company behind it. IE has Microsoft, Safari has Apple, Chrome has Google. Firefox is slightly different, but I see it as being the reborn Netscape. The open source community, probably a huge force itself, helps too. If Opera could have some huge company to push it, it could be more comparable to the rest in terms of market share.

I remember my first PC and going out to buy a boxed copy of Netscape 2.0. I don't have Netscape installed. I think it sucks that Netscape was bought by AOL those years ago. I always though of Netscape as having a cool logo, a cool-looking website and design colors, and it still is an attractive site. I just don't like seeing "AOL" all over it.

Originally posted by Jerec:

I've always assumed it was because Opera didn't have a huge company behind it. IE has Microsoft, Safari has Apple, Chrome has Google. Firefox is slightly different, but I see it as being the reborn Netscape.

Nope. Firefox had Google behind it. Google even paid sites for each Firefox installation through a Firefox banner.

I see that Mozilla and Google are tight now, it seems, but I never knew of any connections in their actual beginnings. As far as I know, Firefox was a project launched when the Netscape source code was released, and Google was started in someone's garage.

Originally posted by drworm:

I think a campaign idea to compete with the Firefox Girls could have the theme of "Show us your O-face".

http://my.opera.com/Avola/albums/showpic.dml?album=1990751&picture=41629521

Originally posted by Avola:

Originally posted by drworm:

I think a campaign idea to compete with the Firefox Girls could have the theme of "Show us your O-face".

http://my.opera.com/Avola/albums/showpic.dml?album=1990751&picture=41629521

Heheh! That's perfect

Because Opera had many useless and redundant feature integrated in its browser such as mail, torrent, unite......that makes it's complicated more than it should be. Nobody like to use or carry things that they don't want to. With Opera, it's like to drive a sport-car with a trailer behind. With FF, it's a damn ugly and slow car but you can modify or get help from third party to get it better than itself.

Opera is far better than other browsers and yet it is a small company with a small amount of money when compared to microsoft and google. Opera has made huge steps forward in browsing and so these should be rightly seen as massive achievements. Opera innovates. In 5 years Opera will be the giant

do we even want that "everybody" is using opera?...

Firefox is free
Chrome has Google
IE has Microsoft
Safari has Apple

Opera has none of this but itself.

Check this out:

Opera needs to put out a stickie that will get most of the answers to questions in one place. Needs a forum where you can ask questions about the browser like Mozillazine where you don't have to set up an account for a general use question. Also, don't have programmers or fanboys get upset if you don't want or like a feature(generalization - all forums have them). You also need to get the addons, tweaks, whatever in one place. FF has one addon that I like that most people would hate. UNHIDE passwords. I'm the only user on most of my computers, and I can't type. In fact, my laptop will jump the cursor around and enter text anywhere it feels like. I don't want any browser remembering any password either. I prefer to clear everything when closing the browser. I would also like NoScript and AdBlock to just be added w/o having to figure out where to add them by editing the config.
I never have liked the speed dial, and had a problem finding out how to hide or get rid of it at first. I don't want the panels, don't want unite, don't want the magic wand, don't want widgets.
I've used Opera since 5 and bought it then. But all the improvements aren't all that great. The best thing Opera has going is that it isn't IE and the security updates.

UNHIDE passwords. I'm the only user on most of my computers, and I can't type. In fact, my laptop will jump the cursor around and enter text anywhere it feels like.

That can be done in Opera using a userjs.

I don't want any browser remembering any password either.

Opera won't remember a password unless you tell it to. If you disable the wand it won't ask.

I prefer to clear everything when closing the browser.

So set the option to clear cookies and cache on exit.

I would also like NoScript and AdBlock to just be added w/o having to figure out where to add them by editing the config.

Press F12 to display the option to disable javascript. `Right-click` > `Block content` to block an ad.

I don't want the panels,

So don't toggle it on

don't want unite,
don't want widgets.

So don't use them. It doesn't cost anything in terms of cpu/ram/hdd. Just forget the option exists.

don't want the magic wand

So disable it.

But all the improvements aren't all that great.

Compared to what?

Originally posted by weezyrider:

Also, don't have programmers or fanboys get upset if you don't want or like a feature(generalization - all forums have them).

We get upset because peoples complaints normally can normally be summed up as "Opera is bad because it's not the same as Firefox".

Originally posted by prd3:

Google even paid sites for each Firefox installation through a Firefox banner.

Opera did that, too. I was part of that program. Never got a penny, myself, so I guess my readers weren't interested in the better browser.

Originally posted by drworm:

UNHIDE passwords. I'm the only user on most of my computers, and I can't type. In fact, my laptop will jump the cursor around and enter text anywhere it feels like.

That can be done in Opera using a userjs.

Which is an area where usability can be improved.

Originally posted by drworm:

I don't want any browser remembering any password either.

Opera won't remember a password unless you tell it to. If you disable the wand it won't ask.

You have to DISABLE it. How about disabling it by default?

Originally posted by drworm:

I prefer to clear everything when closing the browser.

So set the option to clear cookies and cache on exit.

How about clearing it by default, and only remembering stuff when people require or request it?

Originally posted by drworm:

I would also like NoScript and AdBlock to just be added w/o having to figure out where to add them by editing the config.

Press F12 to display the option to disable javascript. `Right-click` > `Block content` to block an ad.

NoScript: like blocking content on a javascript source. And Opera's content blocker needs to get easier. Last time I checked, it refused subdomain wildcards, requiring me to block the same content for various sub domains.

Originally posted by drworm:

don't want unite, don't want widgets.

So don't use them. It doesn't cost anything in terms of cpu/ram/hdd. Just forget the option exists.

No can do for Unite. Unite opens up a port to receive web requests, even when it is disabled. I know, because I don't use Unite myself, and with every update, Opera tries to open more web ports and accept web requests, which I can't stop from within Opera, but only by employing 3rd party software firewalls.

Originally posted by drworm:

don't want the magic wand

So disable it.

How about disabling it by default, and only have it enabled when the user requires it?

Originally posted by drworm:

Originally posted by weezyrider:

Also, don't have programmers or fanboys get upset if you don't want or like a feature(generalization - all forums have them).

We get upset because peoples complaints normally can normally be summed up as "Opera is bad because it's not the same as Firefox".

True that.

The reason those feature are enabled by default is because the majority of users want those features. Those who don't want them can disable them. Imagine all the "why can't Opera remember my passwords? Opera sucks!" topics we'd get if the wand was disabled by default.

Does Unite still open ports when it's off? I remember seeing a changelog that said that was fixed. You could also completely disable unite from opera:config, which should keep it from being loaded at all when Opera starts.

Why enable by default or disable by default? Ah, now. There's a difference there in what FF users expect and what Opera users expect.

FF users expect their browser to be a useless piece, that requires extensions to get anything done. If they switch to Opera, they will notice the lack of extensions, notice that it does all kinds of things they didn't ask for, and complain. The fact that Opera allows extensions in different ways, does not seem to play any roll.

Opera users on the other hand, expect their browser to be a full-featured communication centre, that does not require anything outside of itself in order to offer a complete solution, works out-of-the-box, with the most opportune settings for the most people. If they switch to FF, they notice the browser can't do anything and requires constant extending.

These are states of minds. Like people who are used to MSIE, need time to get adjusted to more complete browsers. Just like devs that are used to MSIE's forgiving parser, need time to adjust their bad programming to stricter browsers.

If we, Opera users, fail to recognise our fellow forum members' state of mind, we may have a hard time catering to their needs in a way that suits them.

Originally posted by OmegaJunior:

Originally posted by drworm:

UNHIDE passwords. I'm the only user on most of my computers, and I can't type. In fact, my laptop will jump the cursor around and enter text anywhere it feels like.

That can be done in Opera using a userjs.

Which is an area where usability can be improved.

I agree that Opera could do more to make installing userjs more simple. Especially since many Firefox add-ons could be achieved with userjs, and most users don't realise.

Originally posted by OmegaJunior:

Originally posted by drworm:

I don't want any browser remembering any password either.

Opera won't remember a password unless you tell it to. If you disable the wand it won't ask.

You have to DISABLE it. How about disabling it by default?

Because if it was off by default, the forum would be flooded with complaints that Opera doesn't have a password manager, and responses saying "yes it does, it's just disabled by default". By turning it on, people are made aware of the feature.

Originally posted by OmegaJunior:

Originally posted by drworm:

I prefer to clear everything when closing the browser.

So set the option to clear cookies and cache on exit.

How about clearing it by default, and only remembering stuff when people require or request it?

No web browser does this, but your going to single it out in Opera as a flaw? The majority of people don't want that behaviour so what's the rationality to make it a default?

Originally posted by OmegaJunior:

And Opera's content blocker needs to get easier.

Selecting an object to block on the page with a mouse is too difficult? How does Firefox do it more simply?

I think what they should do for Opera is that the first time you run it, Opera asks you a few short questions to setup some basic features, for example...

"Would you like your homepage to be set as:
1. Google.com
2. Other (type address)"

"Would you like a new tab in Opera to open:
1. Your homepage
2. Speed dial tab
3. Blank tab"

"On startup, would you like Opera to open with:
1. Your homepage
2. Speed dial tab
3. Blank tab"

"Would you like to enable Speed dial?
1. Yes
2. No"

"Would you like Opera to remember your browsing history?
1. Yes
2. No"
// With this one, perhaps after selecting an option it lists all the history options with tick boxes either selected or deselected depending on the answer given, but allows the user to tick/untick for further quick customisation.

"Would you like Opera to remember your passwords?
1. Yes
2. No"
// Perhaps it could then give password protection options, such as master password.

I've encountered a few programs now that are using first-time-run setup tutorial type things, and I think it may be a good idea with Opera given its complexity (or at least given the number of different options it has). Of course it should be optional, so familiar users can just click an "end setup" or something and do it how they want, but that having such a setup may make Opera less intimidating to users seeing it for the first time and who aren't particularly computer savvy.

@thejohnnyg87: such auto-starting wizards are a total turnoff to me. I want to use the app and I also never had issues finding the preferences if I actually wanted to change something.

I like the tutorial idea, as long as it is brief and unintrusive—as in, exactly the opposite of Internet Explorer's first-time dialog.

Even better, don't use a modal dialog at all. Chrome asks which search engine you want in an unintrusive manner, since you can completely ignore it and it won't keep you from browsing. An internal page (like opera:about) would work nicely.

Originally posted by serious:

uch auto-starting wizards are a total turnoff to me. I want to use the app and I also never had issues finding the preferences if I actually wanted to change something.

Agreed. I hate MSIE8 forcing me to choose settings that I'm not informed about, forcing me to read manuals and documentations, before I get to use the browser. It's a browser, it should browse. The advanced stuff needs to be presented on demand.

Originally posted by drworm:

No web browser does this, but your going to single it out in Opera as a flaw? The majority of people don't want that behaviour so what's the rationality to make it a default?

It's all about privacy. We use our computers at work, where admins can and will access anything they feel like, and where computers are switched out among users on a regular basis. I want to feel like others can't access my private data... because it was never saved in the first place.

The wand does it right, by the way: it will ask you whether you want to use it. So it's enabled by default, but will still ask you. Unlike many a form entry memory or a web address memory, that don't ask anything, but simply remember everything we type. I don't care whether other browsers get it wrong: I would like my browser of choice to act appropriately. (Of course, what I think is appropriate and what others think of that, is a discussion of its own.)

Originally posted by drworm:

Selecting an object to block on the page with a mouse is too difficult? How does Firefox do it more simply?

Selecting an object on the page is easy. However, if that same block appears on a site with multiple sub domains, Opera requires us to block the same element on all of those sub domains, because it refuses to let us set a wild card (at least not in any friendly way I could find). And Firefox doesn't do it at all, which is even less friendly.

Originally posted by OmegaJunior:

Opera requires us to block the same element on all of those sub domains, because it refuses to let us set a wild card

Click "Details" on the content blocker toolbar and you can edit the URLs to block. You can also edit them from Preferences->Advanced->Content->Blocked Content. Wildcards should work anywhere in the URL.

"Should" being the operative word. Have you seen it working? I stopped trying after getting too annoyed. Maybe it works in the latest version of Opera 10.6x.

Originally posted by OmegaJunior:

"Should" being the operative word. Have you seen it working?

I can say it works for me. I have some entries like "*/ads/*" or also "*.nastyadserver.com/*" that I know for sure to work.
EDIT: actually, most of my entries are like the 2nd, only two or three of ~30 where I block a specific subdomain.

Originally posted by spadija:

I like the tutorial idea, as long as it is brief and unintrusive—as in, exactly the opposite of Internet Explorer's first-time dialog.

Even better, don't use a modal dialog at all. Chrome asks which search engine you want in an unintrusive manner, since you can completely ignore it and it won't keep you from browsing. An internal page (like opera:about) would work nicely.

Yes, I like that idea. So basically Opera would on first-run, open with a tab in which one selects from the options, but like any ordinary tab it can be closed, therefore allowing one to dismiss it completely and quite easily? Is this right?

Originally posted by Damaeus:

I see that Mozilla and Google are tight now, it seems, but I never knew of any connections in their actual beginnings. As far as I know, Firefox was a project launched when the Netscape source code was released, and Google was started in someone's garage.

Google put its full weight behind Firefox from the start. They even paid sites to distribute Firefox. Google made Firefox popular.

Originally posted by opera1978:

Because Opera had many useless and redundant feature integrated in its browser such as mail, torrent, unite......that makes it's complicated more than it should be. Nobody like to use or carry things that they don't want to. With Opera, it's like to drive a sport-car with a trailer behind. With FF, it's a damn ugly and slow car but you can modify or get help from third party to get it better than itself.

This is just useless drivel. You can whine and lie like always, but you can never get away from the fact that Opera is much smaller and faster, despite being more functional.

Originally posted by supernicknick:

Firefox is free
Chrome has Google
IE has Microsoft
Safari has Apple

Opera has none of this but itself.

Firefox HAD Google, until Google released Chrome. Firefox is popular today because Google's advertising monopoly was used to spam Firefox the way they are spamming Chrome all over the web today. Firefox reached critical mass thanks to Google.

Originally posted by weezyrider:

Opera needs to put out a stickie that will get most of the answers to questions in one place.

What a useless request.

I don't want the panels, don't want unite, don't want the magic wand, don't want widgets.

That's convenient, because they are all hidden/disabled by default. So why are you whining about things that are irrelevant to you in the first place?

Originally posted by OmegaJunior:

Originally posted by prd3:

Google even paid sites for each Firefox installation through a Firefox banner.

Opera did that, too. I was part of that program. Never got a penny, myself, so I guess my readers weren't interested in the better browser.

Opera did NOT do that. Opera has NEVER paid sites to distribute the browser, like Google did. Opera's affiliate program did NOT give you money.

You are insane if you think Opera has the kind of cash Google does, and is able to pay sites up to $1 for each Opera installation like Google paid for each Firefox installation.

Wow. A quintuple post...

Originally posted by thejohnnyg87:

Yes, I like that idea. So basically Opera would on first-run, open with a tab in which one selects from the options, but like any ordinary tab it can be closed, therefore allowing one to dismiss it completely and quite easily? Is this right?

Yep. That was the idea.

Originally posted by prd3:

Originally posted by Damaeus:

I see that Mozilla and Google are tight now, it seems, but I never knew of any connections in their actual beginnings. As far as I know, Firefox was a project launched when the Netscape source code was released, and Google was started in someone's garage.

Google put its full weight behind Firefox from the start. They even paid sites to distribute Firefox. Google made Firefox popular.

Indeed. Also, Firefox was made because some felt Mozilla (what's now SeaMonkey) was too heavy and bloated. Mozilla was somewhat based on Netscape code, but Firefox came many years later (and by that time Google was huge too).

Number one reason, why opera is falling behind other browsers:

NO EXTENSIONS

opera stock feature set is much bigger than other browsers, but still can't compare with set of features you can get by extensions.

Originally posted by matejdro:

Number one reason, why opera is falling behind other browsers:

NO EXTENSIONS

Pure and utter garbage. First of all, Opera is not "falling behind." It's growing nicely. Secondly, the other browsers have various monopolies pushing them, including Firefox.

So this is about which ones have rich sugar-daddies, and which ones don't. Opera is the only one that doesn't.

Which monopoly is pushing Firefox?

Originally posted by spadija:

Originally posted by thejohnnyg87:

Yes, I like that idea. So basically Opera would on first-run, open with a tab in which one selects from the options, but like any ordinary tab it can be closed, therefore allowing one to dismiss it completely and quite easily? Is this right?

Yep. That was the idea.

I don't dislike this idea, but the very act of presenting choices, even if you can dismiss them, can alienate novice users. They will read it, and panic over what they should do. Should they close it? How will they find the option again? What if there's an option they need they're not sure?

Originally posted by matejdro:

Number one reason, why opera is falling behind other browsers: NO EXTENSIONS

I would rephrase that to say the number one reason why Firefox users don't defect to Opera is 'no extensions'. Internet Explorer is still the most popular browser and the people who use it don't give a crap about extensions--they just want to open Facebook.

It's no doubt that what separates Firefox from Opera is it's extensions. Firefox hate they can't get extensions in Opera, and Opera users hate that they have to try out 5 different mouse-gesture extensions to find the best one, because they each do it rather poorly. But this is pointing out the obvious and I don't understand why people take the time to complain that Opera does not have extensions. If a browser with Extensions is so great, why are you looking at Opera?

Amigos, I like Opera - it's fast as Gallardo, cool design, many features...but... I'm stick on browser security. I don't wanna catch some malware. So, for this time I'm usin' Firefox because it has some addons increasin' my browser security. Well, if only Opera had NoScript...
Firefox is not bad. The main Firefox's princip - extensions. Like in Miranda - if you put many extensions, without usin' brain - it will be slow and crashin'. I've installed only 3 extensions in my FF. It runs nicely.
Who said, that Opera is less popular - well, in some regions Opera dominates. Ukraine, Russia...

Sorry for my bad English.

Originally posted by N0rad:

I'm stick on browser security. I don't wanna catch some malware. So, for this time I'm usin' Firefox because it has some addons increasin' my browser security. Well, if only Opera had NoScript...

Im' pretty sure Opera is more secure, extensions or not. If you have to install extensions to keep secure something is wrong. And yeah, Opera has NoScript. http://unite.opera.com/application/641/

also the mere concept of extensions actually is a security risk (eg. see http://blog.trendmicro.com/firefox-addo-spies-on-google-search-results/ or http://blog.trendmicro.com/malicious-firefox-extensions/ or http://www.informationweek.com/news/internet/browsers/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217700105 - esp. as 3 points out the official extension store can also host such addons)

And yeah, Opera has NoScript. http://unite.opera.com/application/641/

Thanks for advice. But where can I test how it will defend my browser?

Originally posted by dude09:

I won't consider Opera is not falling behind. It's a fact that Opera is an underdog, unable to gain significant thrive all these years (compare to the big boys), this is consider "falling behind other browsers".

No, not at all. Opera has a market share of up to 30-50% in many countries. You are looking blindly at flawed stats that are mostly focused on North America. There is more to the world than North America.

And that's ignoring the fact that browser stats are useless in the first place, and mere guessing and manipulation (look at how many times Net Applications has been caught red-handed manipulating their stats).

Opera initial released 1996 (14 years old), now got about 3% global market share.

It is nonsensical to compare Opera before the ads were removed. In reality, Opera has only been free and without ads for 4+ years. That's when Opera became a mass-market product, so that's when you count from. Before that they obviously focused on as much revenue as possible per user, whereas after removing the ads they aimed at growing the user base.

And it has achieved a market share of up to 50% in some countries despite not being pushed by any monopolies, and despite having just about only products pushed monopolies as competitors.

Opera has done remarkably well in an extremely hostile and anti-independence environment. It has been able to stand up for itself as an independent browser, whereas the other main competitors are just loss leaders or ways for monopolists to secure their monopolist positions.

Originally posted by matejdro:

Which monopoly is pushing Firefox?

Google. They used their online ad monopoly to promote Firefox. They are not promoting Firefox anymore, and notice how Firefox usage is stalling or declining?

Originally posted by dude09:

I'm talking about global adoption rate, not just the West

Except, of course, all these stats focus almost exclusively on North America, and if you are lucky, a few Western European countries. Face it, they are useless and misleading. That's been proven.

It's foolish to belittle past mistakes & discount the history.

You are the one "discounting the history." The history is that Opera never even tried to grow the user base much during the first years. They only started doing it 4-5 years ago.

It's good that the new business model is working, too bad Opera was a bit too late to jump into the freeware market, Firefox beat Opera to it & took a big bite from IE's market share.

Firefox beat Opera to being advertised by Google. That's what happened to Firefox.

IMHO that's one of the reason Opera fall behind, Opera missed the golden opportunity that Firefox took advantage of when everyone are fed up with IE6 & looking for free alternative.

Opera never had a golden opportunity because Google would never have spammed the web with ads for Opera. Firefox got free ads through Google's ad monopoly, and that would never have happened to Opera.

Firefox is made by an organization that can leech off of rich sugar-daddies, whereas Opera always had to pay its own bills.

I know about those reports, but recently Google Chrome is gaining a lot of popularity due to Google's aggressive campaigns. Europe is Opera's stronghold, but Opera doesn't gain much for the past few months compare to Chrome, Google flexing it's muscles & Opera seems like a little guy battling a Goliath to win over the Internet newbies.

Exactly. Chrome is gaining because it's being spammed all over the web through Google's ad monopoly. Opera is the only browser without a monopoly spamming it everywhere, and has done extremely well if you consider the circumstances. Opera has done remarkably well in an extremely hostile and anti-independence environment. It has been able to stand up for itself as an independent browser, whereas the other main competitors are just loss leaders or ways for monopolists to secure their monopolist positions.

Originally posted by dude09:

Why are you quoting your own bogus claims? The fact is that the stats are bogus in the first place, and worse yet, almost exclusively focused on NA. It doesn't matter if it CLAIMS to have stats for other parts of the world. Their data sets speak for themselves.

Originally posted by prd3:

You are the one "discounting the history." The history is that Opera never even tried to grow the user base much during the first years. They only started doing it 4-5 years ago.

Do some research, you are either in denial, or misinformed again.

So now you are denying that Opera removed the ads only 4-5 years ago... FAIL.

Originally posted by prd3:

Firefox beat Opera to being advertised by Google. That's what happened to Firefox.

Sure, that's one reason.

No, that's THE reason. Firefox was spammed through Google's online ad monopoly.

But there are more... What Opera have done during those time? Turn their browser into an Adware, then ask people to buy a browser when everyone can get free browser from Mozilla?

Why do you keep making nonsensical statements I have already addressed? Opera, unlike Mozilla, has always had to make money to survive. Opera couldn't remove the ads until there was a working business model to replace the ad revenue. Opera never had rich sugar-daddies in the form of monopolies who would spend insane amounts of money on them.

Originally posted by prd3:

Opera never had a golden opportunity because Google would never have spammed the web with ads for Opera. Firefox got free ads through Google's ad monopoly, and that would never have happened to Opera.

Firefox is made by an organization that can leech off of rich sugar-daddies, whereas Opera always had to pay its own bills.

Trash talk Firefox doesn't change the fact Opera missed the golden opportunity when it arise[/quote]
FAIL.

I have already explained to you how Opera never had the opportunity because they would never have been spammed all over the web by Google's ad monopoly.

Now Opera seems to be more aggressive in advertisements & making noises to get attention all the time, this is a great improvement over the silent treatment in the past.

Pure and utter BS. Opera has always been making noise. If it gets more attention, that's not because they are making more noise.

Seriously, please don't be so bias & hate Google for their success.

I never said I hate Google. I am merely pointing out simple facts you and most other people seem to ignore.

I'm not saying anything about whether Google spamming the web using its ad monopoly is right or wrong. I'm just saying that they are ACTIVELY USING IT, and did so Firefox, and now for Chrome. Opera never had monopolists like Google spamming them all over the web.

dude9, prd3, cut it out, you are annoying.

I agree that firefox got some huge advertising advantage in the beginning which really helped it boost it's market share until it was a self-runner. but I also have to say, firefox hit just the right time for it's birth (which leads to extra media coverage) while opera has in some sort the disadvantage of already existing so it's just another release. I'm not saying opera is flawless by any means (hell, what software is?) but also that being flawless has sadly nearly nothing to do with "success" (if we define success by a huge market share).
A good example is Opera mini. it just hit the right time when people wanted to use the net on their cells but the default browsers were (and for the non-smartphone sector still are) crap. So it gained some significant market share and now people tell each other to try it out and if they switch phones there is a good chance they'll install it again because they are used to it.

Well, just m2c

Originally posted by serious:

now people tell each other to try it out and if they switch phones there is a good chance they'll install it again because they are used to it.

Unless another browser offers the type of bandwidth saving that Mini or Turbo offers, there is a good chance anything else will be a huge waste of money.

Agreeing with serious on all points.

Originally posted by Museatlantis:

Opera is far better than other browsers and yet it is a small company with a small amount of money when compared to microsoft and google. Opera has made huge steps forward in browsing and so these should be rightly seen as massive achievements. Opera innovates. In 5 years Opera will be the giant

And Opera gets a significant share of the browser market, that's when I'll hope for a new browser. If someone is going to exploit a security flaw, they're going to go after Internet Explorer and Firefox before Opera.

Originally posted by weezyrider:

Opera needs to put out a stickie that will get most of the answers to questions in one place. Needs a forum where you can ask questions about the browser like Mozillazine where you don't have to set up an account for a general use question. Also, don't have programmers or fanboys get upset if you don't want or like a feature(generalization - all forums have them). You also need to get the addons, tweaks, whatever in one place. FF has one addon that I like that most people would hate. UNHIDE passwords. I'm the only user on most of my computers, and I can't type. In fact, my laptop will jump the cursor around and enter text anywhere it feels like.

I have always hated the ***** that appears when typing passwords. I wish there was a system setting that would just disable the whole thing and let me see what I'm typing, no matter where or what it is.

Originally posted by Damaeus:

I have always hated the ***** that appears when typing passwords. I wish there was a system setting that would just disable the whole thing and let me see what I'm typing, no matter where or what it is.

well, writing a script that replaces the "password" fields with normal "input" ones should not be hard ... though it's really bad for security (actually, the stars are also bad as they indicate the password length. most secure is not showing anything like unix shell login)