American police

American police

From time to time I have met American travellers and mentioned this here. Usually I have went out of my way not just to direct them where they were heading but showing them there personally. so they didn't get lost. My latest was on the train back from the Belfast-Scotland ferry. Met a young American who was 33 and a former teacher and travelling Europe.

We had a interesting chat and when I mentioned I had a legal world involvement he got quite strong on the subject of police. I commented that we didn't know much about the running over the pond but sometimes got the impression they thought they were "it" and they were the law not the servants of it. He however instead of just accepting my distant and maybe unfair view was very adamant that this is the typical police in the USA. Were a protected species and got away with much and had an inbuilt protection system then went on with examples. Is this a cavalier view? We have seen some incidents on the news here which gives rise to some concern and not just in the cities. Would be interested to here what Americans here view is on this. Big country I know and maybe hard to be definitive but any view?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Is this a cavalier view?

No, not really.
The 5-0 here think they are "hot sh*t". They think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want.
Heck though, until 2 years ago, my small hometown of 600 didn't have any local police. We just relied on the Sheriff's department.
(Ah the good old days... )

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

The 5-0 here think they are "hot sh*t".

Carlos Miller has a great site if police brutality videos are your thing. The main focus is on photographers rights. This incident is positively shocking.

http://carlosmiller.com/2010/04/12/another-video-exposes-another-cover-up-of-police-brutality/

My opinion regarding police is a little jaded due to my experience in more youthful days , Always hated authority of any kind and still very skeptical of them today . My feeling is there not so much "the law" as much above the law to a larger degree , We have a few good cops but the bad ones far outweigh the good . I live in a small town a hour from a main interstate highway that is the mid point between Florida and New York . The volume of drug activity here is insane and with it brings the Authorities that prey on them , Wanna see a cocky cop ? Get pulled over in Southeastern N.C. , The I.C.E and N.C.S.T can't seem to differentiate between locals and drug runners " Everyones treated equally shitty by our osifers here ."

I just wonder how much productive creativity, & time to benefit from it, is lost just in one's attempt to follow & obey all the laws set out by the nanny states. If there were far fewer laws, there would be far less need for police, good or bad.

rj: There was a fine and interesting television show called American Gothic…

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

We just relied on the Sheriff's department.

HAHAHA My aunt is the sister of one of these little Mississippi sheriffs and you have got to be kidding. I understand they run the town.

Most Americans, like myself, do not particularly care for cops for inbred reasons. That being said, of course their are bad apples.
In the cities you could not pay me enough to police. They are surrounded for most part by scum, or at least that is the people they interface with. Even with the corruption , like the firemen and other public servants i think they are the least of society to be attacked. Undeserving

Got to be tough on crime. American police just occasionally take that toughness too far. England could do with tougher police

Originally posted by Museatlantis:

England could do with tougher police

Hmm, there must be a difference in the policing in Northern England and Southern England?
A friend from Devon consistently argues the direct opposite of what you are arguing.

One of my nephews is a cop. Nice man. I'm sure he's a real bastard when I'm not looking, though. His name is Dave. If you ever run into a cop named Dave, say Hi for me.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

One of my nephews is a cop. Nice man. I'm sure he's a real bastard when I'm not looking, though. His name is Dave. If you ever run into a cop named Dave, say Hi for me.

Ah, so he was the d-bag who gave me a ticket for not wearing a seat belt?

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Hmm, there must be a difference in the policing in Northern England and Southern England?

A friend from Devon consistently argues the direct opposite of what you are arguing.

The UK doesn't need tougher police. The men and women of the force, by and large, are a professional bunch. They are more than capable of bludgeoning someone over the head with a truncheon when the opportunity arises. They are, more often than not, perfectly capable of getting a person home safely, rather than putting him or her in a cell with a pair of black eyes, if that is the simplest option.

The UK does need tougher legislation to allow the police to do their jobs properly, tougher penalties for repeat (career) offenders, and more productive, pro active and properly equipped rehabilitation programs to reduce the rate of reoffending.

Oh, and an economy providing jobs and opportunities wouldn't go amiss either

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Ah, so he was the d-bag who gave me a ticket for not wearing a seat belt?

Of all the stupid laws on the books, that's one of the worst.
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This one is from Mississippi.

� 97-29-11. Illegitimate children; person becoming natural parent of second illegitimate child; jurisdiction; notice to district and county attorneys.

(1) If any person, who shall have previously become the natural parent of an illegitimate child within or without this state by coition within or without this state, shall again become the natural parent of an illegitimate child born within this state, he or she shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than thirty (30) days nor more than ninety (90) days or by a fine of not more than two hundred fifty dollars ($250.00), or both. A subsequent conviction hereunder shall be punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than three (3) months nor more than six (6) months or by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500.00), or both. Provided, however, that for the purpose of this section, multiple births shall be construed to be the birth of one (1) child.

Nice exclusion, that last one.

It is odd that the police slipped to not much above the level of the crooks. Sometimes they give the impression of all being the same but one side has a uniform. But how did it get to that when even Sheriffs in small towns think they are the law? Thankfully a Sheriff here is a judge (!). There seems to be some kind of built in attitude of not messing with them and doesn't that lose respect? When that goes it is so easy to fall back on being macho and being too cocky which only increases the gap between the people and their meant to be protectors. Even where policemen are caught breaking the law or mishandling people as in some vids we have sen on the news there have been case of getting off with a slapped wrist?

Police it's an old problem.
Romans questioned themselves, And who will guard the Guardians?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

It is odd that the police slipped to not much above the level of the crooks.

I'm not sure what your source is, Rj, but I've not had that experience. Have you really had that many run-ins with US police?

Are there any bad cops? I think so. Are there any annoying Scots who generalize on the basis of no experience? Perhaps.

We need thedawgfan to settle this one. I'm sure he's had a lot of experience with the police given his age and inclination to sip suds as some of Mississippi's watering holes. Thedawgfan?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

sometimes got the impression they thought they were "it" and they were the law not the servants of it.

I don't like American police much compared to Dutch or Belgian police, but I think it's important to point out that French police is probably the worst in the western world. You're essentially seen like an enemy of state until proven otherwise over there. Unlike elsewhere the police isn't there for the citizens, but for the state.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Even where policemen are caught breaking the law or mishandling people as in some vids we have sen on the news there have been case of getting off with a slapped wrist?

If you're referring to the recent shooting of a guy who was down on the floor, I believe he's being prosecuted.

We need police to enforce law, maintain order, and protect us at all costs. However, they are human and with power comes corruption and abuse. In a perfect world there is no need for police...no wars, no criminals, no deviates, etc.

If such a place exists, it will be found about a million miles away from Detroit.

It is said that people who love the police have never been arrested. Police stations are filthy, perhaps the filthiness is where they get their moniker. About half of them are good and about half are bad. They are in contact with the most vile people and this contact affects them mentally. I see a lot of police hanging around the weight rooms to bulk up, weight rooms and body building are synonymous with steroids. Steroids use result in aggressive and anti social behavior. Police are encouraged to bulk up.

There is a tendency to "up grade" an arrest. That is make a misdemeanor into a felony, this is often done by provoking a charge of resisting arrest. Traffic stops are a safe activity, they can choose a person who will not cause trouble, and get credit for the citation.

If you have sat in a court room and look at the people most are marginal social wise. Observe the ones brought in handcuffs, they know they will automatically get the mandatory sentence, they have an attitude and they strut. The people sentenced will come out worse than when they went in. The United States has one of the highest prisoner populations in the world. The system needs overhauling it is failing. The very minimum would be that a convict would come out no worse than when he went in.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

We need thedawgfan to settle this one.

*comes to the rescue*

Originally posted by Jaybro:

I'm sure he's had a lot of experience with the police given his age and inclination to sip suds as some of Mississippi's watering holes. Thedawgfan?

It's not that hard to avoid confrontation with the police here. Basically if you plan ahead and use backroads wisely, you will be in the clear.
I have never gotten a DUI and the worst trouble I have ever been in is getting stuck in the pig sty they call "behind bars" for going 30mph over the speed limit once. The police around here are not the brightest light bulbs, so as I say, if you plan ahead, you should be alright.

Police are like anyone else that you put in a position of power over others, you're going to get nice, responsible ones, and you're going to get assholes.

Oddly enough grysmn that American met on the train said the same thing about the legal/court/police system over there. It is maybe unfortunate that the police there grew up in a more difficult history and a kind of paramilitary situation almost. They do seem to get away with more and tend to be almost a race apart. Instead of adopting a more respectable stance they almost compete in the big cities especially with the other side to see who can be the most macho. I once watched a police officer in NYC on one of my visits walk down the street chewing gum with is mouth wide open the visor on his hat pulled over his eyes so he had to lean his head back to see and swinging that infamous nightstick. Did the same several nights near my hotel and his attitude to those meant to be protected and served was very much not his attitude.The way he spoke at a routine incident quite shocked me. Kind of encapsulates a bit? Maybe not the same in the small towns as in big cities but I suspect that in many places they have gradually regarded themselves as "it".

Originally posted by jessheartsben:

In a perfect world there is no need for police...no wars, no criminals, no deviates, etc.

Goodness, what do you have against deviates? I take this personally.
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These get into the press, too.

Well, rjhovie, I have never been to the "damned USA", but in my view this is because it is still a violent, wild, savage, and extreme capitalist cuntry...

With all that aggressive chants about "freedom" and "liberty" and the "gun-toting general public", it is simply a natural thing there...

I have the impression that the police there are much more eager to draw the gun and pull the trigger.

You know, the foundations of the USA were laid, or rather, the path to its laying was paved by some religious freaks, and the spirit of savagery and violence (and the spirit of the Wild West) still lives in the society. It is part of their cultural heritage that they have carried over from that era through the periods of the mass robbery of the continent, the genocide of the native peoples, up to their present-day arrogant imperialism and aggressive wars, bent on ruling the whole planet and possessing it.

You know, over the centuries, we in Europe have become accustomed to live where we are and get by with what we already have here. (Save for the period of European imperialism, whose consequences may still pertain even to you, but... nevertheless, it is already mostly a thing of the past.)
But all of that that is in stark contrast to the way that their society developed. When they gobbled up and exhausted the resources, there was always a "solution" — to move westwards. The predatory way has always been their natural way. (Now they simply practice it on a planetary scale.)

A land of criminals, from the beginning, because of the "unlimited freedom" — what else could you expect?

It is a land so diverse, multicultural and individualistic — because of the (incessant) immigration — that they (the police) simply can't guess what the bloke may be up to. So yes, they are harsh and brutal.

But with more people having guns than passports there — something unimaginable here — is there any other way...?

I don't mean to say that all Americans are like that, not at all. It may be a small minority, but it is powerful enough to shape their politics, both domestic and international (which is what projects upon us and how), and their public life...

However, ACAP (all cops are bastards), as we all know. The ones in my home country may be even worse, actually, but not because of the the "individual crooks and mentally unstable individuals" in their ranks, but because of its leadership acting on political orders.

There is much about the USA Antikapitalist that is contradictory. I have always claimed that the Revolution was in fact a form of capitalist take over and great words were put on paper that didn't mean a thing to the ordinary person. When you witness the history much was crammed in over two short centuries whereas older nations had many centuries to evolve. Mass immigration and the conflicts it brought, yes another factor. Their was no gradual evolving of a gradual structure of administration it was rushed often corrupt and open to abuse. Millions were denied the "freedoms" of the constitution by virtue of their financial state or background or race. Into this come a police force part of large city admins that were controlled or corrupt. In smaller places a different slant but the police became part of the problem. I agree there are far too many guns - this has been debated here before but it shows the childish of many who used a Revolutionary right to bear arms in a late 18th century upheaval to be able to have arsenals. With so many guns floating about then a police force where itchy fingers contribute has done the decent many an injustice.

You realise how deep the problem is when over the decades big city police forces have had to go back time and time again on large scale corruption or misuse of power pogroms. Because they were finding things difficult they become aggressive, cocky and their attitude is little different from the criminal. Instead of being seen as respectable and above such macho stuff they have played on it and tv impressions of them. It would be absurd to say all the police are like that but they are like a secret society when investigated for anything. When I watched how that policeman I mentioned spoke to people he was certainly not being professional but aggressive and stood there one hand on the holster to make a point. Kind of says much? They are often dealing with the lowest of the low but they don't have to equal them?

Lordy, I had no idea things were that bad. I'm considering pulling up roots and moving to Slovakia. Of course, I'm Romani and will lose my children, but, hey, it's all for the greater good and Democracy! Amnesty International be damned!
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Rj, "power pograms"? WTF! What are they putting in the oatmeal there?

I don't know if the actual police behave at US stills shows traces of a police attitude that doesn't have parallel with european police.
I mean the men chase. The wanted dead or alive. Firing 300 bullets to kill a person. Photographing themselves with the guns near their dead trophies.
And I'm not talking regarding the Far West but regarding 20th century.

At least in my country, the police never had that attitude nor it will be tolerated by the civil society. I think most of us thinks that american police do have that kind of heritage but I really can say if this will be true or not.

Originally posted by Antikapitalista:

I don't mean to say that all Americans are like that

Some of my best friends.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

I mean the men chase. The wanted dead or alive. Firing 300 bullets to kill a person. Photographing themselves with the guns near their dead trophies.

One shot, One kill. Thats us old country boys...

Belrager I do hope that was tongue in cheek.

Originally posted by Denny77:

Originally posted by Belfrager:

I mean the men chase. The wanted dead or alive. Firing 300 bullets to kill a person. Photographing themselves with the guns near their dead trophies.

One shot, One kill. Thats us old country boys...

Belrager I do hope that was tongue in cheek.

But no, unfortunately it wasn't. It's cultural perceived reality. We do have that idea.
That american police has vestiges of that attitude but we are not sure of it's extent, since obviously we can also watch perfectly normal actuations.
The general idea it's from a violent society where police acts with methods not so different from the criminals, difference being the side of the law.

Don't shoot the messenger Denny77, shoot your Hollywood, TV and newspapers.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

That american police has vestiges of that attitude but we are not sure of it's extent, since obviously we can also watch perfectly normal actuations.

The general idea it's from a violent society where police acts with methods not so different from the criminals, difference being the side of the law.

I'd blame people dull enough to accept movies as reality. I'm guessing that you're brighter than that, but this makes me wonder.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

I'd blame people dull enough to accept movies as reality.

Why So High?
By Jessica Hoffmann
Will fatal shootings by police continue, averaging more than one a month, with no clear cause or consequence?

You can read the entire article here.
Maybe that Jessica Hoffmann person it's not a bright person, and she is seeing to many movies. Maybe she is a racist person accusing white policeman of killing blacks and "hispanics", maybe she is only impartial on police behavior. I don't know, you tell me, you are the American.
After that I'll move again to what interests me, the way American culture deals with it's own reality, as perceived by an European.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

I'm guessing that you're brighter than that, but this makes me wonder.

Wrong guess, you know me enough to not going for an overestimating mistake.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

After that I'll move again to what interests me, the way American culture deals with it's own reality, as perceived by an European.

*waits with interest to hear this*

It's a very large country with over 300 million people. I've never been attacked by another person, never shot at and don't know anybody who has been. Is there violence here. Of course there is. But it was you who mentioned movies and tv, not me, and it was to that which I responded. BTW, Arpaio, the sheriff mentioned in the piece, has a bad reputation around the country. I know of him and I've never lived in Arizona.

Your generalizations were bolstered with a piece carrying statistics for several cities in one state, Arizona.

Repeat, I nor anybody I know or have known, literally hundreds of people, have been shot at or stabbed. Statistics show more violent behavior in the US than in Portugal, but far less than in Russia. There is much more violence in the UK than in the Netherlands. Belize and Colombia show much higher numbers. Lebanon and Morocco are nice places, relatively speaking. Brazil is not so nice, much worse than Grand Rapids. I can't generalize on these differences.

Originally posted by Antikapitalista:

You know, the foundations of the USA were laid, or rather, the path to its laying was paved by some religious freaks, and the spirit of savagery and violence

To understand American Society you need to read THE PRINCE, America is a fertile country with tough laws to make the people tough. Resulting in a lot of pirate tough people

Originally posted by rjhowie:

When I watched how that policeman I mentioned spoke to people he was certainly not being professional but aggressive and stood there one hand on the holster to make a point. Kind of says much? They are often dealing with the lowest of the low but they don't have to equal them?

The police are like the wolves to weed out the weak ones of the herd. The bottom ten percent of the population need to be culled and replaced by tougher and smarter people. At least according to Machiavelli. Once a person gets caught up in the court system it is pretty much a downward spiral. It is the American "Machiavellian" way to a tough population.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Repeat, I nor anybody I know or have known, literally hundreds of people, have been shot at or stabbed. Statistics show more violent behavior in the US than in Portugal, but far less than in Russia. There is much more violence in the UK than in the Netherlands. Belize and Colombia show much higher numbers. Lebanon and Morocco are nice places, relatively speaking. Brazil is not so nice, much worse than Grand Rapids. I can't generalize on these differences.

Despite the grizzly stats, I've never felt in any danger, been threatened, or otherwise had a bad experience in the US. Movies, news reports and all the other media we're subjected to do have an effect on people, myself included. Imagine my 'discomfort' at finding myself wandering around, completely and utterly lost, in Harlem, New York at 1am, with lots of groups of young black chaps playing basketball. Imagine my surprise at seeing a white, single female walking home with her shopping. And not being gang raped and beaten to death. That's not how it works on Fox News....

RJ has lately been trying to tell me that I need a helmet, flak jacket and army advice to survive here in Mexico. And yet, every time I step outside, the sky is blue, the birds are tweeting, people are chatting and everyone seems to be having fun. Proof, is any were needed, that RJ's choice of reading, his interpretation of the info and how he relates that to reality are.....well. You know. But in all fairness, RJ isn't the only one who confuses media reports with reality.

In London, a safe city statistically compared to many other places I've been, I've been unfortunate enough to witness two murders, both of which were entirely senseless. I'd need all the fingers on every hand of every regular contributor here to tally up the number of street fights, many of which ended in hospitalisations. And I felt considerably less safe in London, and elsewhere in the UK for that matter, than I do here in Mexico City.

What to make of all this? London, must, therefore be bad. Mexico good. US just lovely. Of course, I've spent more of my life in London than elsewhere, but even proportionately, it's a loser. Could there be more to it perhaps?

Originally posted by grysmn:

To understand American Society you need to read THE PRINCE

Machiavelli is the future Orwell predicted.

The truth is a segment of the population is committing racial suicide at the rate ,for instance in a small city , of two or three murders a night. Before the culturally acceptable practice of shooting people who you disagree with they were using butcher knives, razors, lye and other assorted methods of murder.

This little lady is one of the nincompoops that writes in our media with a particular politically correct slant. They refuse to come to grips with that fact and rather than tell it like it is they blame police. After all a cop shot a black man. Many Blacks would like to see that happen more often as they are at present, the victims most of the crime. That is changing somewhat. as they on occasion take to raping old ladies or beating the shit out of them. If you take one or two statements from the the papers, you will of course, come away with a distorted picture of the truth.

The above sheriff does the near impossible, he enforces the law as the other nincompoops write it.

Tell me it ain't so Joe.

edit: I guess I would say the European perception is somewhat lacking.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

It's a very large country with over 300 million people. I've never been attacked by another person, never shot at and don't know anybody who has been. Is there violence here. Of course there is. But it was you who mentioned movies and tv, not me, and it was to that which I responded. BTW, Arpaio, the sheriff mentioned in the piece, has a bad reputation around the country. I know of him and I've never lived in Arizona.

Your generalizations were bolstered with a piece carrying statistics for several cities in one state, Arizona.

Repeat, I nor anybody I know or have known, literally hundreds of people, have been shot at or stabbed. Statistics show more violent behavior in the US than in Portugal, but far less than in Russia. There is much more violence in the UK than in the Netherlands. Belize and Colombia show much higher numbers. Lebanon and Morocco are nice places, relatively speaking. Brazil is not so nice, much worse than Grand Rapids. I can't generalize on these differences.

Yes, that was what I thought.
But all that other countries don't export culture with movies and tv series the way and extent America does.

Therefore what the anti-pope it's waiting for, why movies and tv American series create a so uniform culture about police behavior.
And a low standard profile, making them people that, in an imaginary fight between good and evil, are at the same time the superman, the judge and the executioner. Being, after 30 killings, applauded and kissing the lady.

You must not forget or minimize that, even today, the vast majority of European population has television as their main source. That includes policemen also. The effect of that culture affects, by much, their permeability to that occurrences. It becomes near the acceptability.
Higher classes people comment about some case regarding police brutality - that idiots are seeing too much American series.

That's because of the effect on European people that I'm interested at popular American cinematographic culture, tough not exclusively regarding crime issues. The rest it's even more perturbing.

"...Better to go after the real truth of the matter than ....what people have imagined"

Originally posted by Denny77:

edit: I guess I would say the European perception is somewhat lacking.

Was that in reference to my post?

Originally posted by garydenness:

Was that in reference to my post?

nah . you the man . Common since just stay out of bad neighborhoods........or pack

Twice on tv here there have been documentaries about a Sheriff - is it Arizona? He built a County Prison in the desert and had the convicts staying in tents to live with the physical heat and no softly, softly stuff. They didn't like it too much somewhat naturally and many made a point of no re-offending in his jurisdiction. He was certainly a tough cookie and he seemed to keep the costs down too. Seems he is a popular figure where he is. Don't know if any from across the pond know of him?

Maybe someone can explain why the US jails more people per head than most places. This must mean I assume that many with what would be minor offences are incarcerated? Some light on that would be helpful in trying to understand that phenomena. The court system too seems rather strange in a way. The Law seems to dwell on infinitesimally small things as some deep matter of principled rights that is beyond us here and often seems comical to those of us outside. Perhaps this is unfair but the US Courts don't seem to look to have the same respect somehow and often appear as theatrical drama for lawyers to strut their stuff and make vast fortunes. Somehow Law become demeaned? This may have in turn an effect on olice who are meshed in a murky world.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

You must not forget or minimize that, even today, the vast majority of European population has television as their main source. That includes policemen also. The effect of that culture affects, by much, their permeability to that occurrences. It becomes near the acceptability.

Higher classes people comment about some case regarding police brutality - that idiots are seeing too much American series.

I don't know about Portuguese people, but we have cop/detective shows from all over the place, albeit mostly the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, the UK, and the US. So, to use a Dutch expression, I think you're making an elephant out of a mosquito.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

But all that other countries don't export culture with movies and tv series the way and extent America does.

Nor do I. I export smiles and good cheer! People export things to make money. For some bizarre reason violence sells. I don't get it because I don't get off on violence. My favorite TV shows are "Seinfeld", a comedy available only in reruns, and a doctors show, "House," with a Brit, Hugh Laurie, in the lead role. I also watch documentaries about black holes and hummingbirds. Hot babes are nice, too, but I have a stern critic living in the house.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Twice on tv here there have been documentaries about a Sheriff - is it Arizona? He built a County Prison in the desert and had the convicts staying in tents to live with the physical heat and no softly, softly stuff.

He's been mentioned somewhere above. But let me remind you that sheriffs don't build prisons here...or anywhere, I'm guessing. Good sheriffs and cops don't make interesting copy, so to mind I don't ever remember seeing a piece in the media about one. My nephew is a very nice family man...I don't expect to see him in the news. At least I hope not, because that would be tragic. Stop watching that shit and recommend the same to people you know. The folks sending it to you will stop doing so. I don't watch it; why do you?

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I don't know about Portuguese people, but we have cop/detective shows from all over the place, albeit mostly the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, the UK, and the US. So, to use a Dutch expression, I think you're making an elephant out of a mosquito.

Nice expression that mosquito/elephant thing. We usually say making a lot of noise for nothing.

Ok, American culture doesn't have any expression outside their home and it doesn't have absolutely no meaning construction, it's all entertainment.
I'm going to preach to another parish.

I'm too close to the problem, swimming in it. There's no doubt but that I live in the midst of American culture. Somebody bring me up to speed on what you think American culture consists of so that I can see just where I am. Then I can declare my guilt or defend myself.

Please!

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Ok, American culture doesn't have any expression outside their home and it doesn't have absolutely no meaning construction, it's all entertainment.

I'm going to preach to another parish.

All I'm saying is that our judicial systems are reasonably accurately represented in our own series, plus they're quite popular.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

what you think American culture consists of

My approach, since this is a thread about American police, was trying to determine why being the reality about it so diverse, as you told me, I suspected and common sense dictates, it exists an intentional artificial and limited image about American police behavior spreading over the world, propagated by popular cultural products as movies and tv series made at US.

I was trying to connect it with a more deep vision about the way a People tries to build a self image to show to other People. Culture it's a representation either for us and for the others.
In this case, the image about how that People ensures that Good will prevail.
At an easy way (and I think that "easiness" it's a key word) that uses Cops and Thieves games to pass the message.
In my opinion, the message it's representing themselves as the tough guardians of Good.

I was only focused at that, and not trying to theorize about American Culture as an whole.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

to use a Dutch expression, I think you're making an elephant out of a mosquito.

Thats not American. I used it all my life. I Must have seen it on TV . It seems you guys will argue about what you are arguing about.

Its TV, Its about selling toothpaste. They give you what you want to see.

Originally posted by Denny77:

Its TV, Its about selling toothpaste. They give you what you want to see.

They bloody don't you know.

Unless you know of a channel broadcasting Shakira and her naked identical twin sister 24/7...

Originally posted by garydenness:

Unless you know of a channel broadcasting Shakira and her naked identical twin sister 24/7.

http://www.shakira.com/news/title/gypsy

Heck, I didn't even know who she was,and she plays the mouth organ.... I am now her biggest fan

Anyway we can't have an idea about police without having an idea about criminals.

Maybe my opinion becomes clear with this video I've posted at my blog, for other reasons, before this thread had started.
It's just a slideshow of criminals with a music. I don't know if the person who made it is American or not.
But I think that at the end we clearly see an atmosphere. That's the important thing.
Direct things don't influence nobody, atmospheres do it. This small video does it deliberately, why thousands of movies and series don't, they are just "what people want"?
http://my.opera.com/Belfrager/blog/2010/03/27/cut-you-down

Originally posted by Belfrager:

"what people want"?

Not quite sure what you are after. In any case.

Absolutely. Many headed monster I guess. Take your pick.

Originally posted by Denny77:

I am now her biggest fan " width="27" height="17">

...second biggest fan, amigo.

:shakiras mouth organ:

Originally posted by garydenness:

Despite the grizzly stats, I've never felt in any danger, been threatened, or otherwise had a bad experience in the US.

Echo that. For big cities anyway. The small towns could be a little hairier, but I still wouldn't call them dangerous. Notably though the natives seemed more nervous about their neighbours than most people I have come across. That is fairly old impressions though, I only visited the US a few times in the noughties, and it is possible that the Americans are more relaxed these days.

I can deal with that better. Good drama, good books and good art don't sell well here, as I suspect may be the case elsewhere. What does sell well isn't necessarily representative of the culture as a whole. You haven't seen the junk that is on TV in the afternoon hours...pure pseudo-romantic drivel. Bad stories, terrible dialogue, unrepresentative people. Yet somebody is watching it. It's difficult for me to say what it represents other than viewers who are bored and sub-stimulated intellectually. Obviously, that may say something about American cultural that differentiates Americans from people in other cultures.

What follows is a snippet of a Japanese show.

It's about a lowlife karate master who becomes a teacher at a high-class school. He beats up, threatens, and has sex with his students... everything kids wish their teacher would do. In the beginning of the show he's trying to get a job at this school, but the head teacher (a step below vice principal, I think) calls him garbage. As he's walking out, two kids with bats go looking for the same head teacher. A lunch lady tells him that if he gets rid of those two, he can get the job no matter what - so he goes upstairs to do just that, and the teacher calls them both garbage. Onizuka gets mad, turns around to the head teacher... and gives him a spinning kick to the head! Apparently, in Japan things like incest and kicking random people in the face are perfectly okay.

So what can we learn about Japanese culture from that snippet? Damned if I know, but I doubt that it would give you much of a grasp on how Japanese people live, what's important to them, or anything else significant.

On your first sentence below, I don't think that people try to build an image of self for the sake of other people, presumably those in foreign countries. Additionally, I think that "culture" oozes unconsciously from of society and isn't "for" the society or for anybody elsewhere. Normally, popular "culture" is designed to make as much money as possible, so its purveyors search for what sells in the immediate market. Sex sells, so we get a fair sprinkling of it on TV and movies here. Maybe sex in the media in Europe is somehow different. If so, that would reveal something about differences between American and European social outlooks. The early Clint Eastwood movies were pretty violent, lots of gunplay and grimacing. That has to say something about us. Now, I wonder if the Eastwood movies travelled well. Did they sell at all in Europe? If so, what does that tell us?
(more later, perhaps)

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Originally posted by Jaybro:

what you think American culture consists of

I was trying to connect it with a more deep vision about the way a People tries to build a self image to show to other People. Culture it's a representation either for us and for the others.
In this case, the image about how that People ensures that Good will prevail.
At an easy way (and I think that "easiness" it's a key word) that uses Cops and Thieves games to pass the message.
In my opinion, the message it's representing themselves as the tough guardians of Good.

I was only focused at that, and not trying to theorize about American Culture as an whole.

It seems to me in this day of micro media technology the cops really don't get away with much around here..

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011608977_copshooting15m.html?prmid=related_stories_section

Murder trial of Everett police officer starts.

It was a cop car dash cam that caught it... and another cop who testified..
there are many more examples out there. many bad apples as it were.. but a minority I believe.

It's the judges I don't trust. They keep turning loose the worst of criminals.. and I can see why some cops go over Can't seem to beat them join them..
Or F**K this S**T!!! POP POP POP.
I wonder how the boys in Blue cope with dealing with evil scum and horrendous crime scene on a daily basis then try to live a normal life at the end of their shift.

Originally posted by MAXXTHRUST:

I wonder how the boys in Blue cope with dealing with evil scum and horrendous crime scene on a daily basis then try to live a normal life at the end of their shift.

My uninformed guess is that most cops don't deal with "evil scum and horrendous crime" every day. I do, but they're family members.

Originally posted by MAXXTHRUST:

I wonder how the boys in Blue cope with dealing with evil scum and horrendous crime scene on a daily basis then try to live a normal life at the end of their shift.

Ditto Jaybro. But however those who do have a nasty day at the 'office' deal with it, the bad apples in the force who choose beating up a few bystanders as the best way to get it out of their systems are still in the wrong.

Originally posted by garydenness:

the bad apples in the force who choose beating up a few bystanders as the best way to get it out of their systems are still in the wrong.

Thats a plus for technology... I think we will always have bad cops thumping on Bystanders in the midst of a mob.... but not the majority of them.


Damn Jaybro thats a twisted thought.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Additionally, I think that "culture" oozes unconsciously from of society and isn't "for" the society or for anybody elsewhere.

Yes. Except if you create an entire industry for export culture. For cultural "colonization". Then, you'll have to think in this problems.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Sex sells, so we get a fair sprinkling of it on TV and movies here. Maybe sex in the media in Europe is somehow different. If so, that would reveal something about differences between American and European social outlooks.

It's different. We say that Americans are moralists exactly because the image their movies and series shows. And that's the image how that industry wanted to show Americans.
But you must notice that recently movies and series had started to change regarding sex, less moralists. It reflects a change on society or a change on the image that that cultural media wants to show about the Americans?

Originally posted by Jaybro:

The early Clint Eastwood movies were pretty violent, lots of gunplay and grimacing. That has to say something about us. Now, I wonder if the Eastwood movies travelled well. Did they sell at all in Europe?

They are Cult movies for intelectuals and a must for the others. They are absolute classics around here. Because you can see on them the culture I'm talking about at an early phase. They still have a kind of freshness and purity. They are diamonds.
And Dirty Harry a perfect model for my theory about the American police until one series has done a new direction on the image. A facelift, if you want. Hill Street Blues. Cops as Human beings with internal dilemmas.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Yes. Except if you create an entire industry for export culture. For cultural "colonization". Then, you'll have to think in this problems.

Much of Hollywood media exporters are not U.S. owned.......... hmmm

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Bad stories, terrible dialogue, unrepresentative people. Yet somebody is watching it. It's difficult for me to say what it represents other than viewers who are bored and sub-stimulated intellectually. Obviously, that may say something about American cultural that differentiates Americans from people in other cultures.

That's pretty much the trademark of commercial television anywhere from what I can tell. Still, there was a channel doing House reruns all day, another one doing Bonanza reruns all day... there were some free reasonable on-demand movies and series... as far as cable goes it's not as hugely inferior to satellite in America as it is here.

Still, I think TV in its "current" form is an outdated concept. When I watch the news I watch it with uitzendinggemist.nl (or maybe canvas.be or ard.de), when I listen to the radio news I listen to it as podcasts on my mp3 player when I want, etc. Sites like iwatch.be are not very good yet (on-demand stuff, sadly Silverlight-based and like €3 for one episode), but more importantly they don't even have the series I want to watch and if they do they're not in a format I like. It's freaking digital, so you should be able to switch off the subtitles, for example.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Maybe sex in the media in Europe is somehow different.

Very country-dependent. I would say that in Dutch movies, if there's nudity, at least there's not a tendency to ignore the male nudity, or to at least give it a tiny amount of screen time compared to the female nudity. Still, there's been movies like Animal House for a long time, so it's not absent. The difference in attitude is probably more accurately reflected in the ratings given to movies. There's a fair number of movies out there that are rated R in America while being all ages or 12 in the Netherlands, Germany, Belgium, Norway...

Originally posted by Jaybro:

The early Clint Eastwood movies were pretty violent, lots of gunplay and grimacing. That has to say something about us. Now, I wonder if the Eastwood movies travelled well. Did they sell at all in Europe? If so, what does that tell us?

If you're talking about stuff like A Fistful of Dollars and all that followed I'd say hell yes.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

And Dirty Harry a perfect model for my theory about the American police until one series has done a new direction on the image. A facelift, if you want. Hill Street Blues. Cops as Human beings with internal dilemmas.

Try NCIS?

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Maybe sex in the media in Europe is somehow different.

No idea about the rest of europe but there's a glaring difference in movie ratings between the US and Germany. In the US movies get rated up for nudity, in Germany for gore and violence. Yes, kind of oversimplified but that's what it looks like.

Originally posted by Macallan:

No idea about the rest of europe but there's a glaring difference in movie ratings between the US and Germany. In the US movies get rated up for nudity, in Germany for gore and violence. Yes, kind of oversimplified but that's what it looks like.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070842/

I dunno, seems to be rated 18 in Germany. I don't know what prudes decided to rerate it 16 for the DVD release.

Anyway, let's look at a completely innocent movie like Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0211915/

Netherlands, all ages. Germany, 6. USA: R.

I mean, seriously? Why!? What reason could there possibly be for rating that movie something like that.

It's also fun to look at Dutch/Belgian/German/whatever movie ratings for movies that are rated something like all ages or 6 or some such and seeing how many American R-rated movies show up. Example: http://www.imdb.com/search/title?certificates=be|kt

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Yes. Except if you create an entire industry for export culture. For cultural "colonization". Then, you'll have to think in this problems.

I'm not aware of that. Will you give me some examples?

Originally posted by Belfrager:

And that's the image how that industry wanted to show Americans.

The industry will pretty much show anything that sells, but there are limits. Oral sex in first run movies is verboten. In Portugal?

Originally posted by Belfrager:

They are Cult movies for intelectuals and a must for the others. They are absolute classics around here. Because you can see on them the culture I'm talking about at an early phase.

But I don't think that they reflected broad-based culture at any point in our history. If they are classics there then that tells me that there is something very common cross culturally. It isn't likely that we're watching them for different reasons.

Originally posted by garydenness:

Originally posted by Denny77:

Its TV, Its about selling toothpaste. They give you what you want to see.

They bloody don't you know.

Unless you know of a channel broadcasting Shakira and her naked identical twin sister 24/7...

There is one, and I would tell you how to find it, but it would not be good for you.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Anyway, let's look at a completely innocent movie like Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0211915/

Netherlands, all ages. Germany, 6. USA: R.

I mean, seriously? Why!? What reason could there possibly be for rating that movie something like that.

Originally posted by IMDB:

Rated R for sexual content.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

It's also fun to look at Dutch/Belgian/German/whatever movie ratings for movies that are rated something like all ages or 6 or some such and seeing how many American R-rated movies show up. Example: http://www.imdb.com/search/title?certificates=be|kt

Being John Malkovich got an R rating

For the record, a violent movie like Crank: High Voltage http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1121931/ is consistently rated the equivalent of R. We consider that a bad thing. Language and the human body concern us much less. Awesome movie btw, I'd recommend it.

Seeing how movies like Amélie and Being John Malkovich are rated I'm surprised that Rent got rated PG-13 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0294870/ Also note how it's rated 6 in Germany. (I imagine most of the drugs stuff will fly right over kid's heads anyway)

How does PG-13 work precisely btw? 'cause in the Netherlands only a rating of 16 has any influence on admittance and is thus the equivalent of R while any other ratings are purely advisory.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Yes. Except if you create an entire industry for export culture. For cultural "colonization". Then, you'll have to think in this problems.

I'm not aware of that. Will you give me some examples?

All the movies and series I'm talking about are the examples, as obvious.
I'm thinking about if you (the American people) are not aware of that or if it's just rhetoric.
Anyway your answer it's very interesting because, I have to recognize it, we never thought about what would be the position of American people about it.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Originally posted by Belfrager:

And that's the image how that industry wanted to show Americans.

The industry will pretty much show anything that sells, but there are limits. Oral sex in first run movies is verboten. In Portugal?

Please read what I've posted again. I said the opposite. That image it's about woman that are always conveniently covered with the bed sheet until their neck, after finding the love of their lives.
And I said that has recently changed. Sex in the City. Californication.
Another facelift to the exportation culture image.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Originally posted by Belfrager:

They are Cult movies for intelectuals and a must for the others. They are absolute classics around here. Because you can see on them the culture I'm talking about at an early phase.

But I don't think that they reflected broad-based culture at any point in our history. If they are classics there then that tells me that there is something very common cross culturally. It isn't likely that we're watching them for different reasons.

Nothing is common culturally between our cultures, except for the common human being characteristics.
Exactly by having you saying that "I don't think that they reflected broad-based culture at any point in our history" that I'm confident that it represents a deliberated produced image and that a cultural image exportation industry exists.

Originally posted by Denny77:

Much of Hollywood media exporters are not U.S. owned.......... hmmm

Money has no nationality. It invests in everything that it's profitable.
And Hollywood is. As Bollywood, but with a so more restrict market, even if huge in population.

Well, back on topic, I think American Cops can hold their heads up high compared to their European brethren because they have to live to ( what should be) a higher standard of basic human rights than the Europeans do. American Cops may be stronger & more enthusiastic than the Euro Cops, but that's primarily because the American Cops are held to a higher standard of proof---and how it's collected. They have a Constitution to contend with, whereas European Governments mostly have inferior basic human rights to deal with as far as their citizens are concerned.

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

Well, back on topic, I think American Cops can hold their heads up high compared to their European brethren because they have to live to ( what should be) a higher standard of basic human rights than the Europeans do. American Cops may be stronger & more enthusiastic than the Euro Cops, but that's primarily because the American Cops are held to a higher standard of proof---and how it's collected. They have a Constitution to contend with, whereas European Governments mostly have inferior basic human rights to deal with as far as their citizens are concerned.

...what? Where do you get any of this from?

Originally posted by Frenzie:

It's also fun to look at Dutch/Belgian/German/whatever movie ratings for movies that are rated something like all ages or 6 or some such and seeing how many American R-rated movies show up. Example: http://www.imdb.com/search/title?certificates=be|kt

I took a slightly closer look and it seems like ratings in Belgium are *really* free. I guess I feel more in line with Dutch and German ratings.

Originally posted by Smileyfaze:

Well, back on topic, I think American Cops can hold their heads up high compared to their European brethren because they have to live to ( what should be) a higher standard of basic human rights than the Europeans do. American Cops may be stronger & more enthusiastic than the Euro Cops, but that's primarily because the American Cops are held to a higher standard of proof---and how it's collected. They have a Constitution to contend with, whereas European Governments mostly have inferior basic human rights to deal with as far as their citizens are concerned.

Is Smileyfaze trying to reduce this to farce? We just have to witness situations like the Los Angeles cops who openly beat a man and video. The NYC cops who shot enough bullets into a man to make him rattle. The NYC officer who threw an innocent black man off a building in sheer spite years ago and so on. Since when did human rights figure in the thinking of the police? It is a would-be brotherhood and woe betide anyone who tries to shine light into it. Smileyface may be carried away with propaganda or fiction but brutality and the strident arrogance pervades. It would be daft to say there aren't decent officers but for far too long too many police departments have got away with PR murder and closing ranks to protect bad apples is not exceptional. None of those arrogant officers care a tinker's curse about human rights or very often the people they should be pritecting and serving. Instead they protect and served each other. Having been allowed for so long it really must be hard for the decent officers to take a stand without being given the cold shoulder or feel intimidated by their own to get out. So much for rights?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

We just have to witness situations like the Los Angeles cops who openly beat a man and video.

Maybe the man deserved it. I don't know. But what the hell did the video do to them to be subjected to such brutality?!?!?!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

I commented that we didn't know much about the running over the pond....

Originally posted by rjhowie:

None of those arrogant officers care a tinker's curse about human rights or very often the people they should be pritecting and serving. Instead they protect and served each other. Having been allowed for so long it really must be hard for the decent officers to take a stand without being given the cold shoulder or feel intimidated by their own to get out. So much for rights?

Boy, from knowing so little, to knowing so much, so very quickly.

Originally posted by parkerjm:

Police are like anyone else that you put in a position of power over others, you're going to get nice, responsible ones, and you're going to get assholes.

Ditto.

to use a Dutch expression, I think you're making an elephant out of a mosquito

I would never think it's other than a russian one

And I would never think it's all that bad too outside of our kickback-driven corrupted economy. In 90's we were afraid of bandits. Now it looks like almost all kinds of our police have taken their place. And it's much more terrible.

Maybe the man deserved it? is this meant to be some put town just because it's me? A squad of police brutalising one man? Small wonder there were riots in NYC when they shot a man to pieces with a few dozen bullets between them. Did they think he was armour plated? It is so difficult tyrug to balance out the decency of so many Americans with the police love affair showing you their affection for the swinging stick? They must deserve better and how they got what they have is a puzzle. Maybe things changed so quickly in such a short history it was difficult to keep up? I don't know but they do tend to have a kind of rough edge to them. Strange kind of contradiction.

Originally posted by parkerjm:

Police are like anyone else that you put in a position of power over others, you're going to get nice, responsible ones, and you're going to get assholes.

Sorta like posters here, minus the position of power part.

Oddly, I find that most folks are a blend...nice assholes and asshole assholes. I've yet to meet a pure asshole, although I'm sure it's just from lack of experience.

I met a guy on another post who apparently is a expert on perfect assholes.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Maybe the man deserved it? is this meant to be some put town just because it's me?

I suggest you read it again. Oh, and laugh at the end of the second sentence. The punchline might go over your head, but the least you could do is pretend to get it.

Originally posted by Entrase:

to use a Dutch expression, I think you're making an elephant out of a mosquito

I would never think it's other than a russian one

Well, what do you know. Here's roughly the same expression in a bunch of other languages.

At first I thought this Mexican emigre is patronising but now I sadly have to rethink he may unfortunately be simple. Seems to think he is the only one who can be subtly witty but doesn't see it in others. Hhm, maybe a touch of delusion with the over self-belief? Time will tell. Stay there having one Clegg is enough.

Hope you solve that life puzzle Jaybro and avoid frustration.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Here's roughly the same expression in a bunch of other languages[/url].

The Scandinavian one, turning a feather into five hens, is straight out of H C Andersen.

Noticed too that only the English and Portugese have tempestous tea cups, the rest of us have to contend with unruly water. (How are Tolkien's oliphants translated into Dutch)?

Originally posted by jax:

(How are Tolkien's oliphants translated into Dutch)?

I believe Tolkien spelled them as oliphaunts? Anyway, I never read LotR in Dutch (I did originally read The Hobbit in Dutch though), but according to Dutch Wikipedia they're usually referred to as mûmak or olifaunt.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Seems to think he is the only one who can be subtly witty but doesn't see it in others.

You still haven't got it huh!

Well Jaybro the shit you talk about is part of the tons of the stuff that deluges our tv from your land as it is cheap to import for the brainwashers, oops tv moguls. I know much of the tv stuff is midden and I usually switch to something more informative if I can. If I can't then I go and work on railway simulator building or whatever.

As it happens that particular Sheriff WAS interesting in that he reduced crime considerably and used didn't pussy foot about with woolly think. That he is popular and had made a considerable mark there that made the documentary something to watch for it's curiosity value. If you want to do something about much of the keich we see maybe your country could produce less of it?

On the theme of this On one of my NYC visits I got into a conversation with a sergeant and it was most interesting to find he was once of those who hadn't fired a gun for years. Quite an intelligent man and it was a goodly blether. One thing did amuse me though was when he asked if it was true "your cops just have a notebook and a baton?". When I said that was the everyday case. He shook his head and commented "Unbelievable".

I still think that the basic problem over the police in America may still be that it is a young nation and crammed so much in during a short historiacal time span and communities ever evolving very fast with legions of new people from all different backgrounds straing the little infrastructure made it's mark and then became part of the general scene.Whatever the systematic faults it is a tough game. On my second visit a policeman was shot when he walked towards a flagged down a car for a traffic violation. I dare say with so many wary of the police it puts them in a back-to-the-wall situation which may not be helpful to the honest citizen or honest officer?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

I know much of the tv stuff is midden and I usually switch to something more informative if I can.

Hustler perhaps?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

and it was a goodly blether.

Wtf is a blether?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

On my second visit a policeman was shot when he walked towards a flagged down a car for a traffic violation.

You must have been in DC at that time?

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Wtf is a blether?

Alternative, British way of spelling blather? Then again, context sounds too positive for that.

Speaking of police: http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2532816.ece/Absence_of_ethnic_violence_in_the_Netherlands_explained

Blether is common here not blather. I was in NYC at the time dawg didn't get as far south as you!

We should refrain from hauling all manner of blame,ill-words and offensive missiles at an innocent cop. We have to search his pockets. Ask the cops how much he is paid and perhaps we might come to a conclusion. A cop's actions might be as a result of frustration incurred from paltry salary index.

don't know about you, but i like this guy (cop)

#1
#2

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

don't know about you, but i like this guy (cop)

#1
#2

are you are cop?..draining nutritional slops from some cheap bars,down to your gullet? Keep loving the frustrated,maniac of course,citizens who exercise the squawks of their fate on innocent citizens

i'm not a cop, just pointed out which of those two guys i'm referring to. frustrated maniac? you're not allowed to litter and piss wherever you want and you're not allowed to drink & drive. you have some other regulations in your country?

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

i'm not a cop, just pointed out which of those two guys i'm referring to. frustrated maniac? you're not allowed to litter and piss wherever you want and you're not allowed to drink & drive. you have some other regulations in your country?

I have been arrested a few times. I certainly wouldn't want to be arrested for drunk and disorderly by a bloke with a gun!!
Hate to say this but more often than not the Police in the UK aren't too bad, especially if your sober.
They seem to have quite a tough job over here sometimes.


Chris Rock - How not to get your ass kicked by the police!: This is an absolute classic.

Originally posted by keloda:

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

i'm not a cop, just pointed out which of those two guys i'm referring to. frustrated maniac? you're not allowed to litter and piss wherever you want and you're not allowed to drink & drive. you have some other regulations in your country?

Why do police choose that line of work?
Well, those of that ilk love having power over people, they enjoy inflicting pain and violence.....psychological as well as physical. Those sickos just can't get enough of it.
I'd say that cops, certainly here in the States , are borderline psychopaths.
Here, new recruits tend to gravitate to police work after spending time in the military...in Iraq or afghanistan, where they've abused and brutalized the populace.
Overall, though, I tend to think that police, worldwide, share the same essential sick, violent
mentality.

Overall, though, I tend to think that police, worldwide, share the same essential sick, violent mentality.

Some people surely become Police because they want to make the world a better place.
Everybody slags off the Police but they're glad their around if they're about to get their asses kicked.
If we didn't have the Police to uphold the law everybody would be walking around with shotguns. End of.

You are fairly on the mark regarding the tv brainwashing.