Africa is not a country

Africa is not a country

The fact that most people outside Africa think that Africa is but one country is disgusting.That absolute gibberish is a direct insult to Africa and its inhabitants.It is sickening to uncover that people know so less about the continent that bears most of the world's riches and natural resources.The place where being begun.Allow me to set the record straight :AFRICA IS A CONTINENT NOT A COUNTRY!!.....

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Belfrager:

At North Africa, Egyptian and, later, the "Arab" civilization are good examples of societies that evolved to civilizations.

At subsaharian Africa, I'm not aware of civilizations before European arrival. Only different cultures and societies coexisted there.

Nubia was an advanced Sub-Saharan civilization before the Egyptian civilization came up that you presumably know about, but there was plenty more. When Europeans discovered ruins of that kind of Africa they were all "black people couldn't have built this, Europeans - Romans or something - must've been here before us." Wikipedia offers a reasonably looking overview of some Sub-Saharan civilizations.

As you know that opinion depends on sociological/historical perspective and it's far from being consensual.
In my opinion, it's a sign of the "we are the world" political correctness.
What is an advanced subsaharian civilisation, as you categorized the Nubian? Kongo kingdom was also a civilization? Building with stone it's not enough to become a civilization.
The problem only can be solved by determining the difference between cultures and civilizations and not by considering every culture a "civilization".

Originally posted by Belfrager:

What is an advanced subsaharian civilisation, as you categorized the Nubian?

I guess you could say that in a sense they were to the Egyptians what the Greeks were to the Romans. You can't just go making all kinds of claims like that without at least reading up on the subject matter.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Kongo kingdom was also a civilization?

And why wouldn't it be? But of a completely different magnitude than Nubia or the Kingdom of Zimbabwe.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Building with stone it's not enough to become a civilization.

Did you even read that page? 18,000 citizens, all kinds of complex structures, art, trade, etc.? It's not like it was some kind of lone city, but it was the largest.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

The problem only can be solved by determining the difference between cultures and civilizations and not by considering every culture a "civilization".

So what exactly makes a civilization? I wonder if Portugal will qualify...

Originally posted by garydenness:

You didn't acknowledge the fact that there was civilisation in Africa before the 'white man' arrived. But then, when have you ever acknowledged making a mistake?

Someone needs to tell him that egypt, and therefore ancient egypt, is part of africa. Not to mention all the other empires that came and went centuries before the romans brought commerce and civilization to scotland. Oh, wait, they didn't, instead they built a wall or two to keep those barbarians out

Originally posted by Macallan:

Someone needs to tell him that egypt, and therefore ancient egypt, is part of africa. Not to mention all the other empires that came and went centuries before the romans brought commerce and civilization to scotland. Oh, wait, they didn't, instead they built a wall or two to keep those barbarians out

Macallan is right!

Thanks Mac!

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Belfrager:

What is an advanced subsaharian civilisation, as you categorized the Nubian?

I guess you could say that in a sense they were to the Egyptians what the Greeks were to the Romans. You can't just go making all kinds of claims like that without at least reading up on the subject matter.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Kongo kingdom was also a civilization?

And why wouldn't it be? But of a completely different magnitude than Nubia or the Kingdom of Zimbabwe.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Building with stone it's not enough to become a civilization.

Did you even read that page? 18,000 citizens, all kinds of complex structures, art, trade, etc.? It's not like it was some kind of lone city, but it was the largest.

I've read everything and my point stands entirely. Difference between cultures and civilizations. Nothing has answered to that at your post or linked references.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Belfrager:

The problem only can be solved by determining the difference between cultures and civilizations and not by considering every culture a "civilization".

So what exactly makes a civilization? I wonder if Portugal will qualify...

Exactly all the differences between, Roman, Greek, Chinese (and others) and Nubian. Some people can notice it, others don't. Therefore I said that this is not consensual. Social sciences are not exact sciences.
Portugal will qualify for what? there's some championship going on?

I wonder why pple out Africa taking d whole as a single nation. even though geographically it hs d unite continent. But dats not d case!.

Just know this all of U, b4 we knew of foreigners-town breaching Native-Law in some-native-land. We had native-land inside foreigners-law i.e COLONISATION, colonist who breached native-law by following them History-CODE i.e "Colonist".

Could you perhaps re-do that comment Dambor97 it doesn't seem to make any sense. What is it you are trying to say please?

And can I ask you Thabotizz that all the modern inventions I mention here on the Forums which emitted from Africa or Africans? Do I have to list them all again for you before anything concrete sinks in? None is the profound answer. You got them from those of is in the West. Clutching at straws with Macallan's yak but shows how little you actually know over there about discussion, knowledge or whatever.

I'v been trying to get a response on todays ppl migrating system where ODD-BAD-SPIRIT(devil) does'nt like to be known as the employer of GREEDY-MENTALITY. The time to claim about Africa as not being a country is like claiming that the "Sun is not causing the Moon to SHINE" i.e(after colonist migration-system that existed since NERO "followers" never enjoy "MySweetSpirit" i.e CHRISTIANITY i.e HumanRIGHT or "huWOMANright=|myBadJoke|" rule of enjoying what you'v got SO that Africa SHINES as a country and its LIFE-STYLE can not be judged according who invented someTECHNOLOGY but who's Bored about Reality).

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Exactly all the differences between, Roman, Greek, Chinese (and others) and Nubian. Some people can notice it, others don't.

Why don't you point them out to those who don't?

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Therefore I said that this is not consensual. Social sciences are not exact sciences.

That doesn't mean you say nothing Sub-Saharan has ever produced a civilization without any supporting arguments. You could at least say you don't consider it a civilization because they lacked a writing system or some such (the Nubians did have a writing system, but that's besides the point).

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Portugal will qualify for what? there's some championship going on?

For being a civilization. But that would depend on your criteria.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Exactly all the differences between, Roman, Greek, Chinese (and others) and Nubian. Some people can notice it, others don't.

Why don't you point them out to those who don't?

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Therefore I said that this is not consensual. Social sciences are not exact sciences.

That doesn't mean you say nothing Sub-Saharan has ever produced a civilization without any supporting arguments. You could at least say you don't consider it a civilization because they lacked a writing system or some such (the Nubians did have a writing system, but that's besides the point).

From historyguide.org - What is Civilization?

"A solid working definition of civilization is difficult and depends upon your own judgment. Here are a few textbook definitions: Civilization is a form of human culture in which many people live in urban centers, have mastered the art of smelting metals, and have developed a method of writing. The first civilizations began in cities, which were larger, more populated, and more complex in their political, economic and social structure than Neolithic villages. One definition of civilization requires that a civilized people have a sense of history -- meaning that the past counts in the present. The Oxford English Dictionary defines civilization as "the action or process of civilizing or of being civilized; a developed or advanced state of human society." Such a definition is fraught with difficulties. For instance, how might we correctly identify a "developed or advanced state of human society"? Developed or advanced compared to what? The OED defines the verb "to civilize" in the following way: "to make civil; to bring out of a state of barbarism; to instruct in the arts of life; to enlighten; to refine and polish."
In 1936, the archeologist V. Gordon Childe published his book Man Makes Himself. Childe identified several elements which he believed were essential for a civilization to exist. He included: the plow, wheeled cart and draft animals, sailing ships, the smelting of copper and bronze, a solar calendar, writing, standards of measurement, irrigation ditches, specialized craftsmen, urban centers and a surplus of food necessary to support non-agricultural workers who lived within the walls of the city."

And so many other definitions and approaches, as I've been saying. So you pick yours, I have mine.
But regarding many of the above, I don't consider civilizations at subsaharian Africa. Or Aborigines being a civilization or Amazonic Indians or American native Indians as civilizations. And so many more.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Portugal will qualify for what? there's some championship going on?

For being a civilization. But that would depend on your criteria.

As all southern european countries also Portugal had a major role building the european civilization. But european history it's well documented (a sign for civilization), no need for my criteria.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

From historyguide.org - What is Civilization?

"A solid working definition of civilization is difficult and depends upon your own judgment. Here are a few textbook definitions: Civilization is a form of human culture in which many people live in urban centers, have mastered the art of smelting metals, and have developed a method of writing. The first civilizations began in cities, which were larger, more populated, and more complex in their political, economic and social structure than Neolithic villages. One definition of civilization requires that a civilized people have a sense of history -- meaning that the past counts in the present. The Oxford English Dictionary defines civilization as "the action or process of civilizing or of being civilized; a developed or advanced state of human society." Such a definition is fraught with difficulties. For instance, how might we correctly identify a "developed or advanced state of human society"? Developed or advanced compared to what? The OED defines the verb "to civilize" in the following way: "to make civil; to bring out of a state of barbarism; to instruct in the arts of life; to enlighten; to refine and polish."

In 1936, the archeologist V. Gordon Childe published his book Man Makes Himself. Childe identified several elements which he believed were essential for a civilization to exist. He included: the plow, wheeled cart and draft animals, sailing ships, the smelting of copper and bronze, a solar calendar, writing, standards of measurement, irrigation ditches, specialized craftsmen, urban centers and a surplus of food necessary to support non-agricultural workers who lived within the walls of the city."

And so many other definitions and approaches, as I've been saying. So you pick yours, I have mine.

So you keep saying. Meanwhile the Nubians did everything listed in that quote of yours.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Portugal will qualify for what? there's some championship going on?

For being a civilization. But that would depend on your criteria.

As all southern european countries also Portugal had a major role building the european civilization. But european history it's well documented (a sign for civilization), no need for my criteria.

Actually that's the first criterion you've managed to mention, and also one that Nubia passes. Apparently Nubia, the Aztec Empire, etc. etc. are missing something compared to the Roman Empire according to you. What are they missing?

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Meanwhile the Nubians did everything listed in that quote of yours.

No they didn't. Besides all the other approaches that they miss.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Actually that's the first criterion you've managed to mention, and also one that Nubia passes.

Same above.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Apparently Nubia, the Aztec Empire, etc. etc. are missing something compared to the Roman Empire according to you. What are they missing?

Nothing of course, according your opinion, it seems to appear. Entire world would be completely different without those "civilizations" contributions. They really have achieved outstanding complexity that drove the world for an entire new Era.
Relativism at it's best.

Africa will never be a country, what civilization is it if all you do destroys your life-style. Civilisation is being responsible 4 yo past actions.

I do agree with Dambor97 on that point. Africa will never become a country any more than Europe will. I think in both cases that would be fair enough and local distinctions and loyalties maintained. People essentially don't like they are being swallowed up in a giant mish-mash that they cannot really identify with. They can of course co-operate between nations and be nationalistic with a small 'c'. People can identify with their own tradition easier and more comfortably.