My OperaYou need to be logged in to post in the forums. If you do not have an account, please sign up first.
Consider that we have some bugs that only show on one architecture, in one version of a desktop environment, with a particular version of libs.There is some variety on Win and Mac but nothing like the variety we have on Linux and that is before you even begin to consider FreeBSD or Solaris.
Originally posted by ruario:
Indeed, besides the extensive rewrite the variety does make things more ... ummm 'interesting'.
There is some variety on Win and Mac but nothing like the variety we have on Linux and that is before you even begin to consider FreeBSD or Solaris.
You mentioned the S word.... Solaris. I am waiting for 10.5 on Solaris/OpenSolaris! I hope you didn't forget about Solaris!
Cheers
You're not the only one. I believe I saw a comment previously about there being possible uncertainty regarding the next Solaris version, but I hope that just meant that the Opera people are considering how best to approach the subject, not whether to support it at all...
Solaris 10/Sparc user here (Solaris @ work, Linux/Win7/MacOS @ home).
29. April 2010, 14:07:16 (edited)
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2010/04/29/the-setting-sun
If it is any consolidation this was not taken lightly. We debated this for a very long time and indeed some builds of 10.5x have been produced internally (though not in a state that we could share them).
I would also stress that this is not what any of the UNIX team would have chosen in an ideal world. However, I do fully understand the why we had to go down this route.
Thanks for your support thus far. If you also run Windows, Mac, Linux or FreeBSD (or any of the many non desktop environments we support) I do hope you will continue to consider using our products.
See if you have smooth scrolling enabled (in the preferences -> advanced -> browsing menu you have to tick "smooth scrolling").
Originally posted by gradinaruvasil:
system wide problem ... certain flash-loaded pages
I have a system-wide problem with Flash alright.
Originally posted by gradinaruvasile:
If more programs have sluggish performance, then its a system wide problem and Opera tweaking wont help you with that. I found Opera very responsive in scrolling pages, but in certain flash-loaded pages can be a bit sluggish.
See if you have smooth scrolling enabled (in the preferences -> advanced -> browsing menu you have to tick "smooth scrolling").
It's not all the other apps, it's really just the browsing experience with Opera, that behaves this sluggish.
Maybe you have a more powerful PC? Yes, smooth scrolling is enabled, sometimes, but it's like watching a rhine trying to walk like a cat -- and that's on a 2 Mhz single CPU system. Enabling smooth just makes things worse, most of the time.
Depending on what's on the page, it stutters, slows down, flickers partially, or may even freeze for a short time (though I blame flash for that). Webpages with just the same content smooth ever so softly and in any speed if I use Windows XP on a system with less than half the specs, using Opera.
I'm just wondering if Opera for Linux is going to catch up to this kind of performance. I've never thought the Javascript or rendering Engine was slow. What's slowing this browser down is the drawing speed and the graphics caching when you scroll up and down.
Originally posted by Jammet:
It's not all the other apps, it's really just the browsing experience with Opera, that behaves this sluggish.
Maybe you have a more powerful PC? Yes, smooth scrolling is enabled, sometimes, but it's like watching a rhine trying to walk like a cat -- and that's on a 2 Mhz single CPU system. Enabling smooth just makes things worse, most of the time.
Depending on what's on the page, it stutters, slows down, flickers partially, or may even freeze for a short time (though I blame flash for that). Webpages with just the same content smooth ever so softly and in any speed if I use Windows XP on a system with less than half the specs, using Opera.
I'm just wondering if Opera for Linux is going to catch up to this kind of performance. I've never thought the Javascript or rendering Engine was slow. What's slowing this browser down is the drawing speed and the graphics caching when you scroll up and down.
Hm. I use 3 computers with Debian Squeeze, the slowest of them is an Athlon 3200+ single core. But Opera (all versions) runs great on all of them.
Al computers have nvidia graphics and i use the prerelease 10.1 flash player (the latter, contrary to my expectations doesnt yield any noteworthy speed improvements) .
I encountered only 1 page that runs sluggish on all of them - probably that is due to incompetent web page creators - it is full of small flash ads (that look awful btw). ( http://www.piata-az.ro/ if anyone interested in a slideshow of slowness ).
One more thing - i use Debian Squeeze and i had to explicitly remove the gnash mozilla plugin and installl the proprietary flash. The gnash plugin interfered with the adobe flash plugin and i had 100% CPU usage every time i opened a site that had a trace of flash on it.
Open the preferences window with ctrl+f12, go to advanced -> content, click "Plug-in Options" - see what version of flash you have there and it must be only 1 flash plug-in listed.
Originally posted by gradinaruvasile:
I encountered only 1 page that runs sluggish on all of them - probably that is due to incompetent web page creators - it is full of small flash ads (that look awful btw). ( http://www.piata-az.ro/ if anyone interested in a slideshow of slowness ).
It works quite smooth for me on 10.53, on Debian Sid i386, on ATI Mobility M22 (Thinkpad T43).
In fact I have not been using smooth scrolling for years, mosly for two reasons:
1. under Linux it was very slow and eating CPU,
2. It was taking more time to just perform page down (0.01sec versus 0.50 sec.).
Now for me reason 1 disapeared (it can steel be slow for older gfx cards, especially with poor 2d acceleration). But of course for reason 2 i will still not use, and find enabling it by default pretty strange. Is this because Opera want to be just "cool"? Or is there any objective research that smooth scrooling is better for most pepole?
Originally posted by prd3:
Originally posted by Frenzie:
10.5x is faster on Linux than 10.10, unlike on Windows where I'd say 10.5x is more sluggish than 10.10.
Sorry, but 10.5x is much faster than 10.10 on Windows.
If I can press F2 (mapped to new page & go to nickname) and then g (for gmail) and have it turn off my images (g is mapped to enable display images > disable display images for me) then it's slower.
Same applies to shift+clicking on links, or opening them in background or whatever. That's regardless of redraw setting.
It's faster in the Chrome-like sense, but there's a reason I've always considered that sense far less useful.
It's also more sluggish while scrolling.
What has improved by leaps and bounds is DragonFly, which I suppose is mainly because of what I've called Chrome-like performance, so I'm not saying there's no use in that, but on the whole Opera now feels more like Chrome and Firefox to me, which is what I consider sluggish.
Anyway, 10.50 was actual sluggish in that sense, whereas 10.51 was only slightly so and 10.52/10.53 is almost back to 10.10-like responsiveness. I still think it's comparatively somewhat sluggish. Compared to 10.10 that is, not compared to Chrome or Fx.
Originally posted by movax:
Now for me reason 1 disapeared (it can steel be slow for older gfx cards, especially with poor 2d acceleration). But of course for reason 2 i will still not use, and find enabling it by default pretty strange. Is this because Opera want to be just "cool"? Or is there any objective research that smooth scrooling is better for most pepole?
While scrolling with the mousewheel I find it helps a bit in not losing where you were, although I suppose that may be more by virtue of added slowness than by virtue of smoothness. I also prefer to use PgUp and Dn.
Originally posted by Frenzie:
It's also more sluggish while scrolling.
Nope.
Anyway, 10.50 was actual sluggish in that sense
No, you are talking about some weird customization. That has got nothing to do with the speed of the browser itself. Opera 10.5x is much faster than 10.1x at actual browsing.
Now, about the performance speed - maybe I've worded it rather clumsy before. I'm not talking about how fast pages load, or anything that we would normally compare other browsers to.
Try this: use the scrollbar to very quickly scroll up and down a very busy page. Do that - very fast, in an single fluid motion, and go back and forth and just watch how far is the screen stuttering/lagging behind the movement you do with the mouse. You'll get a lot of screen tearing.
Using my computer with Linux Opera, it really takes a moment until Opera has finished catching up at the top of the page when I zap the scrollbar up with the flick of the hand. It feels like you have to actually push something that has weight, so to speak. Whereas in Windows, .. it's instant. There is virtually no delay at all. By the moment the scrollbar reaches the top, the window shows the top of the page, fully drawn, smoothly panned into view. That is a big big difference in performance. And yes, of course I have 2D hardware acceleration.
3. May 2010, 19:28:38 (edited)
Originally posted by prd3:
No, you are talking about some weird customization. That has got nothing to do with the speed of the browser itself. Opera 10.5x is much faster than 10.1x at actual browsing.
No, I'm talking about a clean install. Doing some "weird customizations" like First Update Delay=0 and Smooth Scrolling=0 actually makes it better. On top of that 10.5x seems to have memory issues which make me have to restart it every once in a while because it's forcing my computer to start using the page file. If having 20-30 tabs open is "weird" then so be it, but 10.10 and Firefox have no issues with it. Again, 10.52/53 is a big step in the right direction, as was 10.51 compared to 10.50, but I've got my hopes on the Unix release and the coinciding Windows release. Progress does seem to be coming in leaps and bounds.
Originally posted by Jammet:
Now, about the performance speed - maybe I've worded it rather clumsy before. I'm not talking about how fast pages load, or anything that we would normally compare other browsers to.
And that kind of performance is precisely why I think Opera is so much faster. 10.5x just isn't quite as fast as 10.10 in that regard yet. I can't say I'm experiencing anything nearly as bad as what you describe though, neither on Windows nor on Linux. I'd describe it more as momentary hiccups that aren't consistently there.
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Except for scrolling on pages with lots of transparency none of that happened on 10.10 for me (in Windows), at any rate. It's possible that the better Linux performance is at least partially 64-bit related?
That could be possible as the Opera 10.5x I've tested was the 64 bit version.
1. June 2010, 06:36:27 (edited)
So just have patience and wait. It's coming. It's a huge undertaking what the Linux team is doing with Opera right now and it just can't be done overnight. And I'm sure it'll be well worth the wait.
Off-topic paragraph removed by moderator.
Originally posted by Case1:
It never ceases to amaze me that for once, after many years of simultaneous releases on all platforms, we have to wait for a release a bit longer than other OS users and with very good reason, and yet people are complaining about "being perplexed how much longer Linux users have to wait".
You know, you mean well, but this isn't really complaining, and it isn't going to stop. People work that way. You can be amazed about it, if you want, but I don't see a point in that.
Someone waits for something, sooner rather than later, they ask how long this is going to take. They will come here for their Opera needs, and discuss it. Like I did. And I think most everyone's been helpful and civil. Especially after years of releasing in sync, people will usually want to know why not this time, too, when they find out, no?
At the same time 10.6 is only in alpha. Considering how old 10.10 is getting it does suck that Linux users are gonna have to wait at least another couple of months to finally get a new stable release. Sure people need to remain calm and civil, but I can easily see why someone might just forgo caring at this point. At some point push releases might just push the browser out of some Linux users minds sad as it is to say.
At first I was checking every day to see if the 10.5 version was available for Linux after the Windows version was released. I just didn't think that "Available Shortly" meant 3 months and counting. Then I got sick of waiting and decided to try Chrome. I wasn't satisfied after a couple of weeks of intense usage. Then I switched to Firefox for a couple of weeks. I finally solved all the little things I didn't like about Firefox. I figured this was a good time to broaden my horizons and try some new things as the wait for the new Opera was killing me.
I have to admit. I have slowly started to not care about the latest release. Never thought I'd say that, but as I settled in and started using Firefox more, I started to like some things about it. It's not as fast, but it renders more reliably. It also prints and Opera printing never worked. I can synchronize bookmarks with Xmarks on Firefox. This is still one of the best things about Opera. I have the Opera browser on my phone and I can sync with all my computers and viceversa.
I may try Opera again when it is released for Linux, I don't know. But, I'm not too emotional about the release delay now. It's starting to not matter to me. I even hacked Firefox's Login Manager to save login credentials on sites that disallow it. Something I've always liked about Opera is that the Login Manager always worked on all sites. Well Firefox does now too.
Opera is a great browser, but I don't know if it matters anymore. This delay has all but killed it off my desktop. Not because I'm impatient, not because I don't like Opera anymore. But things are progressing on other browsers and not in Opera, at least on my platform of choice, which is the same at work and at home.
As I continue to develop sites with new HTML 5 standards, I have to look to the future. And Opera on Linux is simply an unanswered question. I hope they answer it soon, but I'm really quite done holding my breath about it.
Originally posted by Jammet:
You wrote in your message that the Wand in Opera works for all sites. Not really true. I have yet to figure out how to make it work with tv.com and gamespot.com because they have some kind of annoying input delay. If you find out how to work those .. PLEASE let me know.
I have been on dozens of sites and never came across a site that did not work. I don't use gamespot.com or tv.com, so I couldn't help you there. I was referring to sites that use "autocomplete=off" in their pages to make the browser not ever remember the password in web forms for security reasons. Most of these sites are banking sites like Wells Fargo and many others.
I went into the "nsLoginManager.js" file in the Firefox installation and disabled the Javascript that does that checking. There is a bug filed for it as "won't fix". The problem is the bank sites push back by blocking browsers that don't honor this and Firefox does not want to be blocked. They might win that power struggle now, but a few years ago they would have lost because everyone was on IE.
Here is a link to my site on how to fix this in Firefox. Perhaps it might help you some time as well:
http://raescott.net/?q=node/1205
I develop enterprise web applications for a living and I've never come across your issue with Opera and I used it exclusively for many years (except for printing a web site). Sorry I couldn't be of more help there.
Forums » Opera for Windows/Mac/Linux » Opera for *nix - Linux/FreeBSD