Opera forcing automatic updates ON (in update dialog)

Opera forcing automatic updates ON (in update dialog)

This has been discussed in various "auto updating" topics, and a dedicated topic like this should have been created long time ago for this new "nanny" feature of Opera.

Opera is currently forcing automatic updates ON in the update dialog by having the "automatically install updates without notification from now on" check-box always checked, no matter how many times an user have check it off before updating. Also, by always checking the check-box, Opera is not honoring the user selected "only notify" setting for automatic updates.



Opera is not recommending an user to enable automatic updates with this always on check-box. Recommending is giving out an ADVICE on a choice, NOT MAKING the choice! Opera is forcing users to "opt-out" EVERY time they want to update Opera through the update dialog. That's not recommending, it's forcing.

I believe that this "forcing" is behind many reported auto-update problems/worries here in Opera forums. It seems that many have not understood and/or seen the always on check-box and thus have unwittingly allowed Opera to update automatically in the future against their true wishes. Part of this topic is to find out how much this is true, as well as hear what users think about this in general.

I personally would like to see Opera to rethink & redesign this "feature".

If your Opera can auto-update without your consent, then you're running as an administrator, and that is not a safe thing to do. If you're running as a normal user, then the worst Opera can do is ask for your administrator password in order to auto-update itself. If you don't give the password, the automatic update cannot happen.

But I agree with you that it's not nice to automatically check the "automatically install updates from now on" option in the auto-update notification window. I can somehow understand why Opera ASA has done that. They probably really want people to use latest versions of Opera, for security reasons, and want to make sure people have auto-updates running. I think experienced Opera users can easily uncheck auto-updates and update manually to avoid this, if they want. That is what I do.

Thanks Araiel for your fast comments. I appreciate your input to the issue. But let's try to keep this on topic (all comments, no recommends of how to turn it off or similar problem avoiding advices). (sorry about that, I fear the closing of the topic if things get derailed even a bit, we've seen that too many times already)

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I don't want to be all negative, so here's couple of my constructive comments from other topics, my propositions of how the always on check-box could be fixed:

"Easily fixed by presenting the same drop-down box (from the settings) in the update dialog AND keeping the selected value in it, plus including a short "label" (e.g. "here's your current selection for updates, consider turning automatic updates on") for that drop-down box." That label text could be in red (or other visual difference) so people would notice it more easily.

"The check-box could reflect the users setting, i.e. it could be off.. its function would be to ALLOW the user to turn automatic updates on from the update dialog (not going to the settings)."

I haven't tried it but is this what you are looking for?
opera:config#UserPrefs|CheckForNewOpera

No, it's not about that.

Here's a screenshot that shows what we are talking about (copied to the 1st post too):

Here's something that I found in Opera help about auto-updates (emphasis mine):

If in the auto-update dialog you check the box marked "Automatically install updates without notification from now on", all future updates will occur silently, meaning: ...

English is not my native language, in fact it's only 3rd, but to me this is very clear; Opera writes about MY (the "you") choice (the "if") of checking that ON, not the other way around. Interesting. That "if you check" includes a meaning of me actively checking that on, but in reality it's the other way around. Wordplay, semantics is a bi*#h but, that's how that description plays out IMHO.

You can compare it to the following: "If in the auto-update dialog the box marked "Automatically install updates without notification from now on" is checked, all future updates will occur silently, meaning: ...". Now that would be in line what Opera actually does now (that formatting is ambiguous enough). ! This is not an advice how to correct that text !

Totally agree with you.

I am using 10.10 and am trying to skip the 10.5x updates until certain issues are fixed. So I went to the opera:config#Auto Update State setting and manually set it to stop auto-updating. I am happy to get a notification of a new version, but I don't want to install them automatically as I rely on my email for business.

This tickbox SHOULD only show what Opera has in opera:config#Auto Update State and NOT keep resetting it to automatic. It is a little frustrating that each time I am seeing this UPDATE window, that tick box has been reticked by default instead of reading the variable opera:config#Auto Update State and setting it to match.

As I am avoiding the update for now, I am not sure what is going to happen when I DO accept the update and untick that box. I am hoping that the correct value then gets stored and is read back in future.

I agree with the OP and also with his "constructive comments."

I recall watching one of the earlier threads on this prior to 10.52. Mine had been set to "notify but don't install." I then got the notification for 10.52 and noticed that the splash screen was intending to override my settings.

I have no problem with Opera's setting this by default for new installs but it ought to honour user preferences as it does for other features. I'm normally quite careful at noticing check boxes in software installs but I almost missed this one. If I had missed it I would have been most surprised in a month or two to find it had auto-updated to 10.53!

Originally posted by mallen:

I am not sure what is going to happen when I DO accept the update and untick that box.

Your update setting ("notify only") is NOT changed if you untick that box in the update dialog before upgrading. I just tested again & confirmed this.

Originally posted by mallen:

I am hoping that the correct value then gets stored and is read back in future.

This is not about Opera initially storing a "wrong" value. There is NO saved value for the "automatically install updates without notification from now on" check-box.

After you install Opera, the default setting for auto-updates is "notify only", and it is kept like that IF you UNtick the "automatically install ... from now on" check-box EVERY time before starting an update.

As soon as Opera releases a new snapshot, I'll report back and confirm this again. It's impossible to do more than 1 upgrade at the same time because Opera always updates to the latest.. I've saved a virtual machine state where I've done a .51 -> .52 upgrade with the "automatically install ... from now on" check-box unticked.

Originally posted by mallen:

So I went to the opera:config#Auto Update State setting and manually set it to stop auto-updating.

That is not the setting that controls the auto-updating. That is for Opera to know in which state an update is (e.g. notified but "remind me later" clicked). The correct one is: opera:config#UserPrefs|LevelOfUpdateAutomation

A bit odd that the actual setting for auto-updating is not in the "Auto Update" category, but in "User Prefs". But this is OT again.

Originally posted by natural-kutkaa:

As soon as Opera releases a new snapshot, I'll report back and confirm this again.

For some reason the new .53 RC1 doesn't come up when checking for updates, even if I've "Download All Snapshots" enabled. So, can't confirm yet..

How does one turn this functionality off if it has been unintentionally set on ????

Cheers,
David

David, go to "preferences -> advanced -> security -> auto-update" and choose your desired setting again.

If you choose the "notify" option, remember that that doesn't turn "off" the "automatically install updates without notification from now on" check-box in the next update dialog you're going to get. It can't be turned "off". You have no choice but to uncheck it EVERY time before doing an upgrade through the update dialog.

Sorry if I'm parroting/"spelling out" things here but I see that there is some confusion about these update things and/or ambiguous questions.

If I uncheck "Automatically install updates without notification from now on", that's how it should remain until I change it. Any other behavior is not only annoying, but just plain wrong.

Originally posted by k0asati:

Any other behavior is not only annoying, but just plain wrong.

It is right. An issue that affects your security should always be set to opt-out, not opt-in.

If you don't want to keep up-to-date, then just disable update notification altogether, and download Opera from the download page when you hear about a new version on these forums or elsewhere.

Originally posted by Pesala:

An issue that affects your security should always be set to opt-out, not opt-in.

If opt-out is a must then ONLY ONCE! Not constantly!

Originally posted by Pesala:

If you don't want to keep up-to-date, then just disable update notification altogether

Good thinking from Opera, this "nanny" feature driving people to disable updates by annoying people. Adverse affect than desired.

I agree with the OP. And security is not enough of a reason to auto-check the box everytime. It would be a reason to auto-check it the first time, but once the user explicitly chooses not to auto-install updates, that conscious decision should be honoured until he decides otherwise. Even Windows Update, which also tends to (or used to) be criticised for making it hard to opt out of updates, implements this behaviour.

Also, I'm convinced there was a bug in some versions because I'm sure some of my PC's auto-updated 10.10 to 10.50 when I had specifically chosen *not* to. (of course, I know most people are going to believe that I just forgot. I can't prove it but I'm sure).

The problem with auto-updates like this is they can bring in unwanted bugs. The majority of programs allow postponement of updates. It is generally a user choice to update - and that is how it should stay. I always prefer to wait a few days before installing an update to make sure there are no bugs that will seriously affect me. Like the one in 10.50 that messed up email attachments - as this copy of Opera is used for business purposes, I have to be sure the features I need are 100% operational before choosing to upgrade. That is a fairly standard IT practice.

Originally posted by natural-kutkaa:

As soon as Opera releases a new snapshot, I'll report back and confirm this again.

Confirmed again. The "automatically install updates without notification from now on" check-box is always checked.

Originally posted by natural-kutkaa:

Opera is currently forcing automatic updates ON in the update dialog by having the "automatically install updates without notification from now on" check-box always checked, no matter how many times an user have check it off before updating. Also, by always checking the check-box, Opera is not honoring the user selected "only notify" setting for automatic updates.

Well, when I updated from 10.51 to 10.52 I did it fast and left the box checked.. but anyway, lately we encounter updates almost each day so I waited for a day or so and today I just unchecked it with the 10.53 auto update.

P.S. Unchecking it does not help - in Preferences it's still Auto. You really have to manually change it to Notify.

e-berlin, can you elaborate what is your point? It seems that I don't fully understand what you meant with your post. Saw your edit too late.

Originally posted by e-berlin:

today I just unchecked it with the 10.53 auto update.

So you were fortunate enough to catch and stop the auto-update, nice. Unchecking it EVERY time in the update dialog is a bummer..


EDIT:

Originally posted by e-berlin:

P.S. Unchecking it does not help - in Preferences it's still Auto. You really have to manually change it to Notify.

The update dialog check box "feature" madness raises a new head. A bit confusing and contradictory, eh? The check-box can only turn automatic updates on, and the check-box itself does not have a saved setting.

Originally posted by e-berlin:

P.S. Unchecking it does not help - in Preferences it's still Auto. You really have to manually change it to Notify

In 10.50->10.52 I unchecked mine and my preferences still say Notify.

Originally posted by NewWorldMan:

In 10.50->10.52 I unchecked mine and my preferences still say Notify.

Yes of course, like I've been saying all along, unchecking it will NOT change your auto-update settings. The e-berlin user had that check-box checked once he updated, which changed his update setting, and then he reported that unchecking the check-box (after he catched & stopped auto-update) in the update dialog did NOT change his update setting back to "notify". (which is kind of expected, but still very very confusing).

I hope that Opera follows this, it is becoming very clear that this issue is very hard to understand for many and creates a lot of confusion.

Originally posted by natural-kutkaa:

Originally posted by NewWorldMan:

In 10.50->10.52 I unchecked mine and my preferences still say Notify.

Yes of course, like I've been saying all along, unchecking it will NOT change your auto-update settings. The e-berlin user had that check-box checked once he updated, which changed his update setting, and then he reported that unchecking the check-box (after he catched & stopped auto-update) in the update dialog did NOT change his update setting back to "notify". (which is kind of expected, but still very very confusing).

Exactly what I meant, natural-kutkaa. Excuse my poor English.

As I see it, it only lacked details, your English fine. I had to guess a bit what you did, fortunately I guessed right.

I like to download the Classic installation because it allows you to revert to the previous installed version which the msi installation would not do. Unless that's been corrected - does anyone know?
I was rather surprised to see the download start when I connected and Opera wasn't even started. At least it was visible; Google Earth had a whole bunch of unhappy people when they enabled silent update - the updater had a bug and removed the Earth installation completely and didn't replace it with the newer version. Many people, including me, woke up to find the Earth had vanished without a trace.
Anyway, I have Tools/Preferences/Advanced/Security set for 'Notify me about available updates', so we'll see how that works out.