Atheist v/s Christian views.

Atheist v/s Christian views.

Well, this is a story about two neighbours. One an atheist and the other a Christian. The former was always critisizing the latter, trying to convince him otherwise.

One day the Christian had financial problem and he prayed to GOD "Dear Father, I have no money and no food! Help me Lord." The atheist heard him pray and he devised a plan. So, he went to the grocery store and bought groceries for his neighbour without him knowing it. Early in the morning, he left the groceries at his neighbours door and went back home.

Soon afterwards, the Christian came out and found groceries in his front door. He happily shouted out, "Thank you Father for responding to my prayer!" The atheist came out with a slip showing him that he paid for the food. "Now, are you saying I'm your god? I heard your prayer."

The Christian said,"Thank you Lord for providing me with all the resources I need!" and he looked at his neighbour and said, "And thank you for letting the devil pay for them." And he smiled.

Just gets to show you that you can't change them two types.

Anyway, I don't know what happened next. Just thought we can share this.

Tizz.

So, atheists are devils?

Will wonders never cease?

It amazes me to no end how much these debates go in circles. and then we end up in the same spot. nobody gets nowhere!!!

And you've discovered this after only two posts?! Amazing.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

So, atheists are devils?

Will wonders never cease?

No. That's what the Christian guy said. He thanked God for the groceries and the devil* paid for them.

*according to this guy he regarded atheists as devils.

I like that guy.....!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

I like that guy.....!

why not free groceries

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Originally posted by Jaybro:

So, atheists are devils?

Will wonders never cease?

No. That's what the Christian guy said. He thanked God for the groceries and the devil* paid for them.

*according to this guy he regarded atheists as devils.

Read Jaybro's statement again. Slowly if you must. If you have trouble with the big words feel free to ask

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Just gets to show you that you can't change them two types.

Nonsense.
To anyone with a truly open mind, one can go from one side to the other.
Only those who truly want a deity to exist or indeed not exist will remain a stubborn fool on either side.

I would gladly accept that a deity exists if there were sufficient proof for the deity.
I've not seen any thus far. So far it's been ancient fairy tales that include a truly malevolent deity. (Yahweh/Allah)

@Thabotizz

What is the point of this thread? Insult and say Atheists are devils? Do you honestly think that is morally correct?

Bantay, if this is you, (I was never part of this forum (nor am I much of a active member in this particular forum) when you would talk about evolution;) what errors did you think you spotted in the theory of evolution?

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Nonsense.
To anyone with a truly open mind, one can go from one side to the other.
Only those who truly want a deity to exist or indeed not exist will remain a stubborn fool on either side.

Well said, dawgfan. My question is: why the obsession about proving God exist. Maybe a wrong methodology or approach in the type of research, Nick.

By the way Macallan is still hallucinating! What was Jaybro saying? I mean according to your vocabulary?

@daniel

wee boy wait until you graduate. Then, I might actually discuss something with you!

Keep it simple.

What if I want to keep it terribly complicated?

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

By the way Macallan is still hallucinating!

Says the clown who can't read. Google 'irony' please

Originally posted by parkerjm:

What if I want to keep it terribly complicated?

Suite yourself.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Says the clown who can't read.

It takes one to know one.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Well said, dawgfan.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

My question is: why the obsession about proving God exist.

In my case it is very simple. I live in the US state of Mississippi which is without question the most religious state in the US.
If I remember correctly, a stat I read in the Clairion Ledger (Mississippi's main newspaper) said that for every 5 blocks, there is a church.

I am not so much obsessed with the question as I am tired of people trying to force their beliefs on me. They want to dress up their religious beliefs as fact and impose it on anyone who dares disagree. A Great Aunt of mine is the ultimate example of this. She got very angry with me for proving her assertion that "The US is a Christian country" wrong. (See Article # 11 in this link for the fact that I presented to her : http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html
I simply ask them to prove that Yahweh (otherwise known as "God") exists and they cannot and then they refuse to talk to me for a month and then the cycle starts again.

It is a great deal like a religious "proxy" war here 24/7. The Baptists pester the Methodists, the Episcopalians bicker with the Church of God lot and the Catholics argue with the Church of God lot on who is the first church "On whose rock I will build this church". There are numerous other examples I could provide you with but it would take forever.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Maybe a wrong methodology or approach in the type of research, Nick.

I very much doubt it. I have done my own personal research, I have talked with pastors, priests, rabbis, and even a Muslim who leads their services (the name escapes me). I've just completed a 2nd course in college that was a survey course of the "Big 3" Abrahamic religions. All it did was re-affirm the conclusion I arrived at early last year.

I'll never forget what old St. Thomas Aquinas said in his Summa Theologica: "What is of faith cannot be false."
I'll never understand why the fundies in my state just don't go ahead and adopt that as an official motto!

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Says the clown who can't read.

It takes one to know one.

Stop it, you're killing me
Just for you - on the contrary, it takes basic reading skills to figure out if someone's post makes any sense in the context of what it's supposed to respond to. More often than not yours don't.

Come now, Daemon. How do you expect people to know how to read and comprehend?

Originally posted by Sanguinemoon:

Come now, Daemon. How do you expect people to know how to read and comprehend?

Silly me
I sense a lack of . Have one too ->

I myself try to follow Christian teachings , Although I may never reach the nature of my creator the mere fact that I attempt to live the philosophy daily is sufficient enough to my understanding of the Bible . I can't speak for all Christians or even as much as the those I attend services with but to me Christianity is like any other religion ( Buddhist , Islamic or etc. ) It should be thought of as a set of goals to reach that bring us to enlightenment . It's shamefully true that others with bad intention infiltrate these groups and twist a message of peace , love , forgiveness and harmony amongst all men , In the hands of greed and politics these religions are tools to conquer and divide . Atheist have a legit gripe about if you look at what people are doing in the name of there supposed God , God in the form of Jesus walked amongst man and spread his word to many whom wanted to listen . I can't recall a situation where Jesus and the apostles where they handed out fliers and showed up at a strangers home to persuade any one to come to a gathering , People flocked to where he went in search of him . I personally believe that our creator designed us all to be as one with him .

Thank you a lot guys.

@dawgfan: I now understand where you come from. The family excommunicated you for your views on religion. That's sad & bad. Feel for you man.

Originally posted by aziffle:

can't speak for all Christians or even as much as the those I attend services with but to me Christianity is like any other religion ( Buddhist , Islamic or etc. ) It should be thought of as a set of goals to reach that bring us to enlightenment . It's shamefully true that others with bad intention infiltrate these groups and twist a message of peace , love , forgiveness and harmony amongst all men , In the hands of greed and politics these religions are tools to conquer and divide .

I don't think that is a matter of bad people infiltrating Christianity and doing evil deeds in the name of God, my main issue with Christianity is that Jesus validated completely the old testament, including all the atrocities committed by god or committed in his name, so when people instead of turning the other cheek answer an eye for an eye, thats also the Christian doctrine.

The bible is a contradictory book, when pretty much anyone can find an example of anything supporting pretty much any position. Infanticide? Done, God killed 42 youngsters for the heavy sin of mocking a bald prophet. Rape? Murder? Genocide? All over the place, with God blessing at that. Slavery? Sure, why not? All complete with non inflationary prices and a set of rules about how bad you can treat them. Add to the mix the all is forgiven if you believe in Jesus and you are granting permission to commit all kind of atrocities and go unpunished.

As some one said once, we have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to love each another.

@Thabotizz you got your fact backwards, first of all,

Well, this is a story about two neighbours. One an atheist and the other a Christian. The former was always critisizing the latter, trying to convince him otherwise.

Are you kidding? In all my life, not a single atheist ever has come to my door preaching, how many went to yours?

Regarding your story, the Christian was a moron, you don't need to be too bright to grasp the concept of people of different faiths doing good deeds because of the right thing to do and not for some kind of ulterior motive like scoring points for the afterlife, but more important, insulting someone who just helped you is plain stupid.

Now I have another story for you, this time the two neighbors went fishing to the sea, and the Christian fellow capsized in deep waters, far from the coast. The atheist fellow see his neighbor in troubles and went to help him, but the other refused saying that the lord provide those in need and he rather won't owe his life to a spawn of Satan. The atheist fellow says that is not the time to be stupid, that a storm is closing by and we will die for sure, but the Christian keeps to his faith and dismiss the atheist. The fellow tries to stand nearby and try to convince the Christian, even begging two other times, until the arrival of the storm is imminent, and he must give up and returns to the coast.

The Christian guy obviously dies, and once in heaven goes straight to God and ask him: My Lord, if it is true that you provide those in need, why do you let a true believer die just like that? God, astonished answer: What do you mean? I send a boat three times to save you but you refused to go.

As the old folks say, the ways of God are mysterious and I find completely ridiculous how people who actually believe that have a tendency to add a "...but not THAT mysterious" when referring to things like evolution. Ohm well, they also said that God speaks to them, so they should know better

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Just gets to show you that you can't change them two types.

Nonsense.
To anyone with a truly open mind, one can go from one side to the other.
Only those who truly want a deity to exist or indeed not exist will remain a stubborn fool on either side.

I would gladly accept that a deity exists if there were sufficient proof for the deity.
I've not seen any thus far. So far it's been ancient fairy tales that include a truly malevolent deity. (Yahweh/Allah)

Yahweh/Allah

Nice has a nice ring tone to it

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Well said, dawgfan.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

My question is: why the obsession about proving God exist.

In my case it is very simple. I live in the US state of Mississippi which is without question the most religious state in the US.
If I remember correctly, a stat I read in the Clairion Ledger (Mississippi's main newspaper) said that for every 5 blocks, there is a church.

I am not so much obsessed with the question as I am tired of people trying to force their beliefs on me. They want to dress up their religious beliefs as fact and impose it on anyone who dares disagree. A Great Aunt of mine is the ultimate example of this. She got very angry with me for proving her assertion that "The US is a Christian country" wrong. (See Article # 11 in this link for the fact that I presented to her : http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html
I simply ask them to prove that Yahweh (otherwise known as "God") exists and they cannot and then they refuse to talk to me for a month and then the cycle starts again.

It is a great deal like a religious "proxy" war here 24/7. The Baptists pester the Methodists, the Episcopalians bicker with the Church of God lot and the Catholics argue with the Church of God lot on who is the first church "On whose rock I will build this church". There are numerous other examples I could provide you with but it would take forever.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Maybe a wrong methodology or approach in the type of research, Nick.

I very much doubt it. I have done my own personal research, I have talked with pastors, priests, rabbis, and even a Muslim who leads their services (the name escapes me). I've just completed a 2nd course in college that was a survey course of the "Big 3" Abrahamic religions. All it did was re-affirm the conclusion I arrived at early last year.

I'll never forget what old St. Thomas Aquinas said in his Summa Theologica: "What is of faith cannot be false."
I'll never understand why the fundies in my state just don't go ahead and adopt that as an official motto!

They say Atheists are the biggest learners in Religion and preach more crap than usual .
Tel has tisee
you said you wanted to learn ..

Ok guys whatever you atheists are having, let me in.

Prove to me there is no God. All you do is spew a lot of nonsense, crap and jibberish! The mind comprehends what it can percieve! Maybe lack of open mindedness is the cause. Give me facts, not unfounded statements!

Keep it simple.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Prove to me there is no God.

It's impossible until you provide a concrete definition of what god is. If you do, you'll squirm out of any logical trap by making the definition too vague, just like every other theist past.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

The mind comprehends what it can percieve!

A good enough explanation for as why there are so many gods!

Doesn't actually correlate with reality though. That's the crux.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Maybe lack of open mindedness is the cause

Being open minded does not mean accepting every idea you're exposed to. It's about criticism, investigation and careful selection.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Give me facts, not unfounded statements!

Religion is a whole busload of unfounded statements.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Prove to me there is no God. All you do is spew a lot of nonsense, crap and jibberish! The mind comprehends what it can percieve! Maybe lack of open mindedness is the cause. Give me facts, not unfounded statements!

Do you believe in Chalchiuhtlicue? Prove me that she does not exists! Being skeptical of the existence of gods is the default position for a rational person. You don't go disproving everything you don't think is true, you simply don't believe a claim until there is enough evidence to support it. Thats a fact, not an unfounded statement, if you thing otherwise, please give me your reasons for not believing in Chalchiuhtlicue, I have a long lists of others you need to disprove as well.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Prove to me there is no God.

Huh? You make the claim that your invisible friend exists, despite total lack of evidence. If anyone needs to prove anything it's you.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

All you do is spew a lot of nonsense, crap and jibberish! The mind comprehends what it can percieve! Maybe lack of open mindedness is the cause. Give me facts, not unfounded statements!

That is indeed nonsense, crap and gibberish.
Try to comprehend the line above. Why exactly should we even consider assuming that your invisible friend might be more than just the product of lifelong indoctrination?

There must be a God. Beethoven couldn't have just happened. Something as astonishing, as sublime, as Beethoven must have been created by an all-powerful Being with a love of His human children and a desire to fill them with wonder and admiration.
Hey, wait a minute. Why did that God then strike His sublime creation with deafness?

There is another way to deal with this complex issue...the Jaybro way.

The very idea that a atheist would be so informed of Christianity as some here imply almost seems contrary of what I think atheist stood for . Almost like someone studying to be a physicist when they know they want to be a janitor , " Me thinks ye protest to much " . Is it just Christianity that evokes the almost rabid responses ? Our are you equally loathsome of any perceived God ? Maybe one of you theologians can tell me why you make such efforts to disprove something you obviously care so deeply about ?

I care because for me is important if something I believe is true or not. How can you reject a claim if you don't take the time to analyze it properly first?

Lets make a simple bet, can you tell us what are the 10 commandments of the Christian God, the ones he gave to Moses and sign the covenant with him? I'll be impressed if you got them right.

Originally posted by Immanis:

Lets make a simple bet, can you tell us what are the 10 commandments of the Christian God, the ones he gave to Moses and sign the covenant with him? I'll be impressed if you got them right.

I know I can't but I think one should have read: 'Thou shalt not impose thy beliefs nor assume the right to oppress and persecute those who share them not.'

I think that would have alleviated a considerable bit of suffering that's happened around the world at the hands of the good god-fearing christians.

@ immanis : Anyone can poke holes or pick apart practically anything , If you don't want to believe in religion thats is your choice . I could recite bible verses or any number of philosophical text all day long and you can shoot them down just as quickly , I applaud your dedication to making informed decisions but I can't help but wonder why this issue drives you or others to lash out so aggressively . I didn't leap out from behind your front door with a Christian bible and a pamphlet in hand swatting you about the head . Geesh you guys really need to lighten up a bit .

I'd say that the late, great American comedian George Carlin put it beautifully: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Originally posted by jessheartsben:

I know I can't but I think one should have read: 'Thou shalt not impose thy beliefs nor assume the right to oppress and persecute those who share them not.'

I think that would have alleviated a considerable bit of suffering that's happened around the world at the hands of the good god-fearing christians.

The first three or four commandments state the exact opposite of that, so you'd be better off coming up with your own.

Originally posted by aziffle:

The very idea that a atheist would be so informed of Christianity as some here imply almost seems contrary of what I think atheist stood for . Almost like someone studying to be a physicist when they know they want to be a janitor , " Me thinks ye protest to much " . Is it just Christianity that evokes the almost rabid responses ? Our are you equally loathsome of any perceived God ? Maybe one of you theologians can tell me why you make such efforts to disprove something you obviously care so deeply about ?

"Almost rabid"? You know that's not true. Speaking for myself, I don't loathe any God - because I don't believe there are any. What I have problems with is those whose impose their God, their moral laws, their righteousness, on others based on personal faith alone.

I suspect most people here would agree with that. Atheists have spent a lot of time being perceived as one step away from demonic. Why should a man with no gods be treated less respectfully that one with a different god?

I suspect most people here would agree with that. Atheists have spent a lot of time being perceived as one step away from demonic. Why should a man with no gods be treated less respectfully that one with a different god?

As someone who believes in God,(and its hit me most recently), I can't understand what people have to gain by recruiting new members to their faith, or getting the hump with people who don't believe in the same thing as they do. I have seen Muslims try and encourage people who are thinking about joining Islam, and on here i see 'Christians' getting angry when someone disagrees with them. Maybe they are insecure in their beliefs, thats the only thing i can think of. Life paths determine what you believe in, not arguing and prodding.

Its surely a matter of personal belief. Brainwashing and bullying is the way cults operate i thought.

Originally posted by TroyMclure:

Its surely a matter of personal belief. Brainwashing and bullying is the way cults operate i thought.

I've never seen the difference except size.

Originally posted by TroyMclure:

As someone who believes in God,(and its hit me most recently), I can't understand what people have to gain by recruiting new members to their faith, or getting the hump with people who don't believe in the same thing as they do. I have seen Muslims try and encourage people who are thinking about joining Islam, and on here i see 'Christians' getting angry when someone disagrees with them. Maybe they are insecure in their beliefs, thats the only thing i can think of. Life paths determine what you believe in, not arguing and prodding.

Its surely a matter of personal belief. Brainwashing and bullying is the way cults operate i thought.

I support that thought, at least in theory. In practice, even the most reasonable members of any group, with only the best intentions, are going to want the people they care about to be with them, and share in their own perceived happiness.

For example, my parents are Christian. I'm sure that, if they've thought about it at all, the thought that their beloved son is going to be tortured in Hell for all eternity is quite upsetting for them.

Who wouldn't want everyone they know to share in the joy and love of knowing Jesus?
On the other hand, who wouldn't want their loved ones to enjoy the freedom of thought and sense of personal moral responsibility that goes with atheism?
Who wouldn't want to share the peace of freeing yourself from attachment and suffering like the Buddhists?

Originally posted by aziffle:

@ immanis : Anyone can poke holes or pick apart practically anything , If you don't want to believe in religion thats is your choice . I could recite bible verses or any number of philosophical text all day long and you can shoot them down just as quickly , I applaud your dedication to making informed decisions but I can't help but wonder why this issue drives you or others to lash out so aggressively . I didn't leap out from behind your front door with a Christian bible and a pamphlet in hand swatting you about the head . Geesh you guys really need to lighten up a bit .

Is not loath, I've been defending my position in this kind of debates that many times that I I've learned a lot Christianity and I can't help but think that most Christians have never read the bible themselves from cover to cover. If you think about it, thats really sad: putting your faith in a God whose only evidence is a flawed holy book of which you only read selective passages as instructed by your priest. That's like signing a contract to sell your soul without paying attention to the small letters.

Besides, I'm not poking holes in your holy book, I just asked a simple question about something that must be the cornerstone of the Christian faith and every self proclaimed Christian must know.

Originally posted by Immanis:

I care because for me is important if something I believe is true or not. How can you reject a claim if you don't take the time to analyze it properly first?

Lets make a simple bet, can you tell us what are the 10 commandments of the Christian God, the ones he gave to Moses and sign the covenant with him? I'll be impressed if you got them right.

If this is the test,your test, I think you should do a little more study into the subject before you attack others for their assessment.

This is the problems I have with all the antis....They are so into themselves after all who are you.someone special? That goes for all you boys...

edit: Oh and I guess the know all little girl y. Who apparently is rewriting the commandments. She thinks very highly of herself also.

Originally posted by Denny77:

This is the problems I have with all the antis.

I'm rather pro modern civilization.

Originally posted by aziffle:

The very idea that a atheist would be so informed of Christianity as some here imply almost seems contrary of what I think atheist stood for.

Then better look it up in a decent dictionary.

Originally posted by aziffle:

Almost like someone studying to be a physicist when they know they want to be a janitor

I suggest you read and actually try to comprehend some of the posts here. Obviously you don't have the faintest idea what's going on.

Originally posted by aziffle:

Is it just Christianity that evokes the almost rabid responses ?

Again, learn to read. And inform yourself before you make yourself look even more foolish.

Originally posted by aziffle:

Maybe one of you theologians can tell me why you make such efforts to disprove something you obviously care so deeply about ?

Nothing like that as you would know if you actually read what you're 'commenting' on - it's an allergy to bullshit, plain and simple. And this post of yours is full of it.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Denny77:

This is the problems I have with all the antis.

I'm rather pro modern civilization.

You rather quick this morning.

Point of correction! My fellow intellectuals, lend me your ears!

There are different types of Christians. Let me elaborate:
1. Those who repented from their ways, former prostitute helping orphans and widows.

2. Those who submitted to the power of The Holy Spirit. An ex-satanist who practised black magic but no longer does such things. Giving up his powers to Jesus.

3. Those who follow Jesus Christ's teachings. The kingdom of God teachings.

4. Those who are led to believe only that Jesus died for our sins. And that being the only foundation! Being afraid of death themselves, think only of the everlasting life in paradise.

So everyone think we are all type 4.

Originally posted by jessheartsben:

Originally posted by Immanis:

Lets make a simple bet, can you tell us what are the 10 commandments of the Christian God, the ones he gave to Moses and sign the covenant with him? I'll be impressed if you got them right.

I know I can't but I think one should have read: 'Thou shalt not impose thy beliefs nor assume the right to oppress and persecute those who share them not.'

That would invalidate about 95% of the old testament

Originally posted by Macallan:

I suggest you read and actually try to comprehend some of the posts here. Obviously you don't have the faintest idea what's going on.

I don't know about him but you seldom make any since to me.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Point of correction! My fellow intellectuals, lend me your ears!

There are different types of Christians. Let me elaborate:
1. Those who repented from their ways, former prostitute helping orphans and widows.

2. Those who submitted to the power of The Holy Spirit. An ex-satanist who practised black magic but no longer does such things. Giving up his powers to Jesus.

3. Those who follow Jesus Christ's teachings. The kingdom of God teachings.

4. Those who are led to believe only that Jesus died for our sins. And that being the only foundation! Being afraid of death themselves, think only of the everlasting life in paradise.

So everyone think we are all type 4.

sinners all....

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Denny77:

This is the problems I have with all the antis.

I'm rather pro modern civilization.

Into yourself.....whad I sa

Originally posted by aziffle:

@ immanis : Anyone can poke holes or pick apart practically anything ,

The question is wether that person has valid arguments.

Originally posted by aziffle:

If you don't want to believe in religion thats is your choice . I could recite bible verses or any number of philosophical text all day long and you can shoot them down just as quickly

Missing the point by a mile or two. Bible verses prove absolutely nothing. Neither do verses from any other 'holy' book. ( well, to be fair, some of the more philosophical ones do have a point or two )

Originally posted by aziffle:

I applaud your dedication to making informed decisions but I can't help but wonder why this issue drives you or others to lash out so aggressively.

Read the thread. The answer to that is blindingly obvious to anyone with basic reading comprehension.

Originally posted by aziffle:

I didn't leap out from behind your front door with a Christian bible and a pamphlet in hand swatting you about the head .

True. Instead you made a few factually incorrect claims.

Originally posted by aziffle:

Geesh you guys really need to lighten up a bit .

Heed your own advice.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by TroyMclure:

Its surely a matter of personal belief. Brainwashing and bullying is the way cults operate i thought.

I've never seen the difference except size.

Religions are cults that went mainstream

Originally posted by Macallan:

Religions are cults that went mainstream

Atheists ....you guys can rewrite the commandments....this is the dictionary by ole den

Originally posted by Immanis:

Originally posted by aziffle:

@ immanis : Anyone can poke holes or pick apart practically anything , If you don't want to believe in religion thats is your choice . I could recite bible verses or any number of philosophical text all day long and you can shoot them down just as quickly , I applaud your dedication to making informed decisions but I can't help but wonder why this issue drives you or others to lash out so aggressively . I didn't leap out from behind your front door with a Christian bible and a pamphlet in hand swatting you about the head . Geesh you guys really need to lighten up a bit .

Is not loath, I've been defending my position in this kind of debates that many times that I I've learned a lot Christianity and I can't help but think that most Christians have never read the bible themselves from cover to cover. If you think about it, thats really sad: putting your faith in a God whose only evidence is a flawed holy book of which you only read selective passages as instructed by your priest. That's like signing a contract to sell your soul without paying attention to the small letters.

Besides, I'm not poking holes in your holy book, I just asked a simple question about something that must be the cornerstone of the Christian faith and every self proclaimed Christian must know.

As Socrates said, "The unexamined life is not worth living". And the unexamined philosophy is not worth following.

Originally posted by Denny77:

If this is the test,your test, I think you should do a little more study into the subject before you attack others for their assessment.

Utter rubbish, if you want to learn something applying a test to a group of people, you use equivalent questionnaires for everyone, otherwise it would be unfair and completely pointless. A child who dies right after born gets a free ticket to heaven, while other people must struggle in a very unfriendly environment (other cultures where worshiping of false gods is predominant) to find the correct answer to the same question. So either your god is unfair or the purpose of our life is not to pass his test.

As for do a little more study, first of all be a good boy and prove that my knowledge of Christian doctrine is insufficient and I need to study more of it. Also in order to avoid an undeserved label of hypocrite, you should at least answer the simple question I posted above before claiming my ignorance in the matter. We all agree that any self proclaimed Christian, Jew or Muslim should be answer correctly that one, right?

Originally posted by Immanis:

you use equivalent questionnaires for everyone,

Consensus brings mediocre knowledge. A lot of that crap going around also..Thanks for bringing that up and proving another point for the few that were not aware. I was a boy when you were a sorry ass gleam. You couldn't find the answer to anything correctly if you were following a seeing eye dog. Send out another questionnaire.

edit # 1: I have to do something useful like plant my potatoes. Relaxes and clears the mind....and keeps the mind off of inquisitorial things.

Originally posted by Denny77:

Consensus brings mediocre knowledge. A lot of that crap going around also..Thanks for bringing that up and proving another point for the few that were not aware.

Thanks for proving my point dodging the question and good luck with your potatoes.

Originally posted by Immanis:

Do you believe in Chalchiuhtlicue?

Well I read all your ramblings, and that is the last time as you got more shit than the Clown,and I know little , nothing about what's her name. I have wondered the, jungles of the Yucatan and I can tell you although I enjoyed the occasional pig roast. The Mayans were at a earlier time a heartless bunch bent on carving the harts out of young maidens, virgins of course,and casting them into the pond. They were the cast of the devil as far as i am concerned. Some like your self would say they just were victims of the Church who were wandering around in the mosquito laden swamps to bring a since of civilisation , Christianity, to them. Don't bother to tell me that sad stoy i have heard it before.

I guess , and hope , I have answered your question. Did you include that on your questionnaire???

Originally posted by Denny77:

Originally posted by Immanis:

Do you believe in Chalchiuhtlicue?

Well I read all your ramblings, and that is the last time as you got more shit than the Clown,and I know little , nothing about what's her name. I have wondered the, jungles of the Yucatan and I can tell you although I enjoyed the occasional pig roast. The Mayans were at a earlier time a heartless bunch bent on carving the harts out of young maidens, virgins of course,and casting them into the pond. They were the cast of the devil as far as i am concerned. Some like your self would say they just were victims of the Church who were wandering around in the mosquito laden swamps to bring a since of civilisation , Christianity, to them. Don't bother to tell me that sad stoy i have heard it before.

I guess , and hope , I have answered your question. Did you include that on your questionnaire???

You are answering to the WRONG question unless you subscribe to the same idea of Thabotizz that you must provide evidence for the non existence of things you don't believe. Here goes the full quote, hopefully you get it right this time:

Originally posted by Immanis:

Originally posted by Thabotizz::

Prove to me there is no God. All you do is spew a lot of nonsense, crap and jibberish! The mind comprehends what it can percieve! Maybe lack of open mindedness is the cause. Give me facts, not unfounded statements!

Do you believe in Chalchiuhtlicue? Prove me that she does not exists! Being skeptical of the existence of gods is the default position for a rational person. You don't go disproving everything you don't think is true, you simply don't believe a claim until there is enough evidence to support it. Thats a fact, not an unfounded statement, if you thing otherwise, please give me your reasons for not believing in Chalchiuhtlicue, I have a long lists of others you need to disprove as well.

What is better, you failed to provide ANY rational argument for non believing she exists and just restated your opinion that you don't believe in her, using silly "arguments" like "the mayans were a heartless bunch" as if the jews were any better. The question I was talking about was this one:

Lets make a simple bet, can you tell us what are the 10 commandments of the Christian God, the ones he gave to Moses and sign the covenant with him? I'll be impressed if you got them right.

Originally posted by Immanis:

u are answering to the WRONG question

Forget about it. What I am to web search her dumb ass to get some info?...she might be the virgin Mary for all I know. Just not in my book.
I am done with you .

edit: Don't feel bad many will tell you I am not on their level of smartness.

Originally posted by Immanis:

Lets make a simple bet, can you tell us what are the 10 commandments of the Christian God, the ones he gave to Moses and sign the covenant with him? I'll be impressed if you got them right.

My covenant is with "Saint Michael" he brought Moses out. I look for his intercession....and of course hope for the lords mercy when the time comes. I have a very short memory sometimes.

Your gobbly gook means nothing to me.

Originally posted by Denny77:

Forget about it. What I am to web search her dumb ass to get some info?...she might be the virgin Mary for all I know. Just not in my book.

What was exactly my point, you don't need to disprove her existence for not believe in her, if someone else say she is the true and insist that you myst put your faith on her, he has the burden of the proof and unless his arguments are compelling you don''t need to change your position. Welcome to the skeptic world.

Originally posted by Denny77:

Your gobbly gook means nothing to me.

In other words, you don't care about what the bible says. With every post you are looking more like one of us.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

@dawgfan: I now understand where you come from. The family excommunicated you for your views on religion. That's sad & bad. Feel for you man.

No, I never said that at all.

Originally posted by Juggalo1:

They say Atheists are the biggest learners in Religion

Of course. We have to make an educated and well-informed decision after all to become an atheist.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Give me facts, not unfounded statements!

I've been asking you for that for sometime.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Prove to me there is no God.

You first must prove that a god exists. It is impossible to disprove that which is unproven in the first place.

Originally posted by aziffle:

The very idea that a atheist would be so informed of Christianity as some here imply almost seems contrary of what I think atheist stood for .

Why is that?
We must become very informed of what they stand for to come to our decision.
Have you ever read the whole bible in it's entirety?

Originally posted by aziffle:

Is it just Christianity that evokes the almost rabid responses ?

No, it's just that there are no Jews or Muslims to argue with.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

Speaking for myself, I don't loathe any God - because I don't believe there are any.

I agree.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

What I have problems with is those whose impose their God, their moral laws, their righteousness, on others based on personal faith alone.

Absolutely, same here.

Originally posted by Immanis:

and I can't help but think that most Christians have never read the bible themselves from cover to cover.

Hell, I know for a fact that nearly 80% in my state haven't.
They are masters of cherry-picking verses though.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

There are different types of Christians. Let me elaborate:

1. Those who repented from their ways, former prostitute helping orphans and widows.



2. Those who submitted to the power of The Holy Spirit. An ex-satanist who practised black magic but no longer does such things. Giving up his powers to Jesus.



3. Those who follow Jesus Christ's teachings. The kingdom of God teachings.



4. Those who are led to believe only that Jesus died for our sins. And that being the only foundation! Being afraid of death themselves, think only of the everlasting life in paradise.



So everyone think we are all type 4.

Do you not notice pattern in all four that you listed Thabotizz?
In all 4 instances, Christianity is used as a crutch.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

And the unexamined philosophy is not worth following.

Quite right!

Now, Thabotizz, I invite you to disprove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the sky and the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

Originally posted by Immanis:

Your gobbly gook means nothing to me.

In other words, you don't care about what the bible says. With every post you are looking more like one of us.

Notice I said your gobbly gook. Keep working at it you might get the idea...I really could care less what you think...really your problem.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Christianity is used as a crutch.

Not so. It is about grace and faith and life after, among other things. If you are a Christian you are free of all the crap....much of what you complain about and never are going to be able to correct anyway. Just how I try to make since of it all. Don't expect you to believe..

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Have you ever read the whole bible in it's entirety?

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.

Two fools that crutch their feeble sense on verse.
--Dryden.
[1913 Webster]

Get to the basics Dawg. You make it all harder than it is.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Of course. We have to make an educated and well-informed decision after all to become an atheist.

Or simply never to have learned (much) about religion. Until I was 9 or 10 or so I didn't even realize that there were actually people out there who believed all that. I knew all about Greek mythology, Egyptian mythology, Germanic & Norse mythology, Jewish/Christian mythology, and Grimm's fairy tales. I all classed them as roughly the same thing, albeit I enjoyed the misanthropic Christian stuff the least on the whole.

All in all I didn't become a more vocal atheist until the Danish cartoon and Dutch blasphemy law debacles, and that's really more related to me being in favor of freedom of expression and being a secularist than with being an atheist.

Anyway, my point is that I'm certainly well-informed in regard to staying an atheist, but there's certainly no necessity of being well-informed in order to become one. Well, of being well-informed about religions anyway; there might be some necessity of being somewhat informed of basic science.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Anyway, my point is that I'm certainly well-informed in regard to staying an atheist, but there's certainly no necessity of being well-informed in order to become one. Well, of being well-informed about religions anyway; there might be some necessity of being somewhat informed of basic science

It would seem that way ,for instance History brought me to a point of believing....I should say a preponderance of evidence.. ..and then you discover it has nothing to do with it. I would suggest science is the same way. The truth is the truth. Not knowing all the answers is not a crime or prerequisite to religion or the truth of tomorrow???? The guys with all the answers are to be scrutinised carefully no matter your viewpoint...another old man's thoughts. Have at them.

Originally posted by Denny77:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Anyway, my point is that I'm certainly well-informed in regard to staying an atheist, but there's certainly no necessity of being well-informed in order to become one. Well, of being well-informed about religions anyway; there might be some necessity of being somewhat informed of basic science

It would seem that way ,for instance History brought me to a point of believing....I should say a preponderance of evidence.. ..and then you discover it has nothing to do with it. I would suggest science is the same way. The truth is the truth. Not knowing all the answers is not a crime or prerequisite to religion or the truth of tomorrow???? The guys with all the answers are to be scrutinised carefully no matter your viewpoint...another old man's thoughts. Have at them.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Until I was 9 or 10 or so I didn't even realize that there were actually people out there who believed all that.

Same here. Then I read the book and couldn't believe that anyone in his/her right mind could believe any of it. And years later I ran into a bunch of bronze age fundies in this forum...

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I knew all about Greek mythology, Egyptian mythology, Germanic & Norse mythology, Jewish/Christian mythology, and Grimm's fairy tales. I all classed them as roughly the same thing, albeit I enjoyed the misanthropic Christian stuff the least on the whole.

Yeah, especially the greek and germanic mythologies at least made a conscious effort to keep audiences entertained

Originally posted by Denny77:

The guys with all the answers are to be scrutinised carefully no matter your viewpoint.

Exactly. That's what makes most religions very suspect in my eyes, albeit certain Protestant or Jewish denominations and certain eastern religions take much healthier approaches to the whole thing. Whether someone claims to be an atheist or religious really makes no difference if they're sprouting nonsense.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Same here. Then I read the book and couldn't believe that anyone in his/her right mind could believe any of it. And years later I ran into a bunch of bronze age fundies in this forum...

Oh yeah, me too. I'd read the children's Bible before (which is essentially a collection of the most entertaining stories made more suitable for kids), but then I read the real deal. The only real difference between the children's version and the unabridged version was the amount of blood and cruelty, primarily coming from that God guy.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Ok guys whatever you atheists are having, let me in.

Prove to me there is no God. All you do is spew a lot of nonsense, crap and jibberish! The mind comprehends what it can percieve! Maybe lack of open mindedness is the cause. Give me facts, not unfounded statements!

Keep it simple.

My Christian beliefs are mine and mine alone . I read just fine to my knowledge and my thoughts are firm , It is people like yourselves that would make excellent stereotypical Christians ( The ones you disdain so much ) . Narrow minded pompous asses . I consider myself a Christian and I believe in God and my personal views aren't stereotypical of most I attend church with , I don't push my faith on you so don't attempt to push your lack of faith on me . I don't have to be standing next to a tree falling in the middle of a forest to know it made a sound when it collapsed . To me , I know a God exist without touching , seeing or at times feeling Its presence . Some of you speak as if you are political speech writers but don't show much passion for your belief only contempt for those whom don't follow your self righteous ways . You are quick to doubt anything unless it's in a book in front of you . There are so many things that minds much greater than a room full of ignorant bottom feeders with large vocabularies , And they are constantly at a loss to explain how our universe operates , They can't touch it or feel it but they know its there ( " The God particle " , Black holes , String theory and so on . But Noooooo a bunch of wannabe intellectuals in a forum on Opera has got it all figured out .

Originally posted by aziffle:

My Christian beliefs are mine and mine alone . I read just fine to my knowledge and my thoughts are firm , It is people like yourselves that would make excellent stereotypical Christians ( The ones you disdain so much ) . Narrow minded pompous asses . I consider myself a Christian and I believe in God and my personal views aren't stereotypical of most I attend church with , I don't push my faith on you so don't attempt to push your lack of faith on me . I don't have to be standing next to a tree falling in the middle of a forest to know it made a sound when it collapsed . To me , I know a God exist without touching , seeing or at times feeling Its presence . Some of you speak as if you are political speech writers but don't show much passion for your belief only contempt for those whom don't follow your self righteous ways . You are quick to doubt anything unless it's in a book in front of you . There are so many things that minds much greater than a room full of ignorant bottom feeders with large vocabularies , And they are constantly at a loss to explain how our universe operates , They can't touch it or feel it but they know its there ( " The God particle " , Black holes , String theory and so on . But Noooooo a bunch of wannabe intellectuals in a forum on Opera has got it all figured out .

BANTAY ????? if so let me introduce myself i am a JUGGALO i is a clown and i only beleive in one thing death to sadistic ASSHOLES :clown:

May 8th, special day
Take the day off.
If you believe in such things....

Happy VE Day!

Originally posted by aziffle:

Narrow minded pompous asses .

No, I think you'll find we're open-minded pompous asses.

Being open-minded doesn't mean accepting everything at face value.

Originally posted by Denny77:

May 8th, special day
Take the day off.
If you believe in such things....

Originally posted by aziffle:

Narrow minded pompous asses .

Ah yes, personal attacks are an excellent way to have a dialogue.

Originally posted by aziffle:

I don't push my faith on you so don't attempt to push your lack of faith on me .

Who is trying to do that?
I simply asked have you read the bible in it's entirety. Have you?

Originally posted by aziffle:

To me , I know a God exist without touching , seeing or at times feeling Its presence .

Yes, and certain serial killers had their mother telling them to kill people.

Originally posted by aziffle:

And they are constantly at a loss to explain how our universe operates

Actually it has been explained if you've ever opened a science book.
(Yeah, I know, science is a load of crap put forth by ignorant heathens. How dare I mention the "s" word! )

Originally posted by aziffle:

But Noooooo a bunch of wannabe intellectuals in a forum on Opera has got it all figured out .

Nope, none of us have.
Scientists before us figured it out, and we acquainted ourselves with the Big Bang, Evolution, etc.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

No, I think you'll find we're open-minded pompous asses.



Being open-minded doesn't mean accepting everything at face value.

Yep.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by aziffle:

But Noooooo a bunch of wannabe intellectuals in a forum on Opera has got it all figured out .

Nope, none of us have.

Scientists before us figured it out, and we acquainted ourselves with the Big Bang, Evolution, etc.

Let's see. Something new comes up that has yet to be understood. Me: I don't know. aziffle: God did it.

Yep, all figured out.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Something new comes up that has yet to be understood. Me: I don't know. aziffle: God did it.



Yep, all figured out.

Indeed.

Originally posted by aziffle:

I read just fine to my knowledge and my thoughts are firm , It is people like yourselves that would make excellent stereotypical Christians ( The ones you disdain so much ).

What a load of nonsense. Quite obviously you're either overestimating your reading abilities or - far more likely - you didn't actually read. We all know you like to cling to your precious little prejudices - what you've been posting so far proves that beyond reasonable doubt.
So, show me some incidents here where 'we' cling to some unsupportable bullshit despite evidence of the contrary. Come on, should be easy enough if any of your claims are true.

Originally posted by aziffle:

Narrow minded pompous asses.

Ran out of arguments already? No, we're not surprised. Besides, more personal attacks will get you banned.

Originally posted by aziffle:

I consider myself a Christian and I believe in God and my personal views aren't stereotypical of most I attend church with , I don't push my faith on you so don't attempt to push your lack of faith on me.

Who exactly is pushing what exactly on you? Are you sure it happens anywhere else than in your head only?
And who forced you to post your gibberish here?

Originally posted by aziffle:

I don't have to be standing next to a tree falling in the middle of a forest to know it made a sound when it collapsed . To me , I know a God exist without touching , seeing or at times feeling Its presence.

So you don't know, you just really, really want it to be true.

Originally posted by aziffle:

Some of you speak as if you are political speech writers but don't show much passion for your belief only contempt for those whom don't follow your self righteous ways.

For something to be true or not passion is irrelevant. Facts & evidence are relevant.

Originally posted by aziffle:

You are quick to doubt anything unless it's in a book in front of you.

Huh? Please stop making stuff up, it makes you look even more foolish.

Originally posted by aziffle:

There are so many things that minds much greater than a room full of ignorant bottom feeders with large vocabularies

Ah, so it's vocabulary envy. Go read a book or ten, that might help you. Yes, I'm talking about those fill of small print and without pictures.

Originally posted by aziffle:

And they are constantly at a loss to explain how our universe operates

Well, there is a hell of a lot we don't know about this. How exactly does that give any weight to your silly fairytales?

Originally posted by aziffle:

They can't touch it or feel it but they know its there ( " The God particle " , Black holes , String theory and so on.

Obviously you have no idea what any of these things are.

Originally posted by aziffle:

But Noooooo a bunch of wannabe intellectuals in a forum on Opera has got it all figured out .

And yet more nonsense, still nothing in terms of arguments. How very original

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by aziffle:

You are quick to doubt anything unless it's in a book in front of you.

Huh? Please stop making stuff up, it makes you look even more foolish.

I was going to comment on that. Talk about turning things around.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by aziffle:

Narrow minded pompous asses .

Ah yes, personal attacks are an excellent way to have a dialogue.

Quite obviously he's not interested in dialogue, only in whining about those boohoo-bad-atheists not taking his invisible friend seriously.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by aziffle:

I don't push my faith on you so don't attempt to push your lack of faith on me .

Who is trying to do that?

Anybody who doesn't take his silly claims at face value without questioning.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by aziffle:

To me , I know a God exist without touching , seeing or at times feeling Its presence .

Yes, and certain serial killers had their mother telling them to kill people.

Or satan, god, other voices in their heads, you name it.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by aziffle:

And they are constantly at a loss to explain how our universe operates

Actually it has been explained if you've ever opened a science book.
(Yeah, I know, science is a load of crap put forth by ignorant heathens. How dare I mention the "s" word! )

Well, that science thingie doesn't pretend to explain absolutely everything, they admit that there are things they don't know (yet), therefore the religious types who simply insert their invisible friend everywhere, are clearly superior. You see, whenever you don't know something - 'god did it' and you figured it out. No need for all that expensive rubbish.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Well, that science thingie doesn't pretend to explain absolutely everything

Good point.
I forgot I had to be very specific in certain instances.

Originally posted by Macallan:

they admit that there are things they don't know (yet), therefore the religious types who simply insert their invisible friend everywhere, are clearly superior. You see, whenever you don't know something - 'god did it' and you figured it out.

Of course.

Originally posted by Macallan:

No need for all that expensive rubbish.

Yeah, I mean hell, the US is already 8 years behind on stem cell research. Why on earth would we carry on researching that? Old Yahweh wouldn't want that, would he? I mean, it's not like it has the potential to cure cancer.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by Macallan:

No need for all that expensive rubbish.

Yeah, I mean hell, the US is already 8 years behind on stem cell research. Why on earth would we carry on researching that? Old Yahweh wouldn't want that, would he? I mean, it's not like it has the potential to cure cancer.

People who get cancer simply don't have enough faith. We should pray for them.

Originally posted by aziffle:

To me , I know a God exist without touching , seeing or at times feeling Its presence .

You go! I feel the same about my secret friend.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

I think you'll find we're open-minded

Trouble with an open mind is it gets filled with rubbish, and truth falls out if you don't close it.

Originally posted by Macallan:

People who get cancer simply don't have enough faith. We should pray for them.

The doctor told me I am a cancer survivor, I thank a good surgeon for postponing my death, not saving my life. It's all a matter of perspective you see. pbuy.

Good one leftwing.

Originally posted by leftwing:

The doctor told me I am a cancer survivor, I thank a good surgeon for postponing my death, not saving my life. It's all a matter of perspective you see. pbuy.

Erm, Leftwing, I am very nearly certain that Macallan was being sarcastic.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Erm, Leftwing, I am very nearly certain that Macallan was being sarcastic.

I am more than certain about it. I have faith.

Originally posted by Macallan:

People who get cancer simply don't have enough faith. We should pray for them.

That's a miracle! Macallan praying? That's ridiculous!

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Originally posted by Macallan:

People who get cancer simply don't have enough faith. We should pray for them.

That's a miracle! Macallan praying? That's ridiculous!

It's really simple - you pray to His Noodliness really, really hard and if He can be arsed to He will touch the tumors, metastases etc. with His Noodly Appendage which makes the cancer demons shit their ectoplasmic pants and bugger off.

Originally posted by Macallan:

It's really simple He makes the cancer demons shit their pants and bugger off.

Well that's first! Miracles never stop? Since when did this atheist guy know it? you've earned yourself one

Originally posted by leftwing:

Trouble with an open mind is it gets filled with rubbish, and truth falls out if you don't close it.

That is quite possibly the worst analogy I have ever heard. Respect!

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

To anyone with a truly open mind, one can go from one side to the other.

this has always been is My Armageddon, And I always win with a few:beer:

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

To anyone with a truly open mind, one can go from one side to the other.

Bullshit! Why don't you cross over. Show us your open mind really works. Or are you chicken?

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

To anyone with a truly open mind, one can go from one side to the other.

Bullshit! Why don't you cross over. Show us your open mind really works. Or are you chicken?

He did just that, only he crossed to our side. Now carefully remove that foot from your mouth.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

To anyone with a truly open mind, one can go from one side to the other.

Bullshit! Why don't you cross over. Show us your open mind really works. Or are you chicken?

What does the phrase 'having an open mind' mean to you? Can you describe what you mean by that?

Johnnysaucepan. Are you graduated?

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Johnnysaucepan. Are you graduated?

Yes. And I know what keeping an open mind means. I'm checking if you do.

Having an open mind means being willing to consider alternative ideas. It does not mean blindly accepting alternative ideas, or accepting all ideas as having equal value, or refusing to criticise ideas.

Having an open mind does not mean throwing critical thinking out the window.

Johnnysaucepan.

Why ask a question when you know the answer? Anyway, you've earned yourself one
enjoy

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Johnnysaucepan.

Why ask a question when you know the answer? Anyway, you've earned yourself one
enjoy

Because that wasn't the question I was asking.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Why ask a question when you know the answer?

You knew the answer to this one! Why, then, did you....well, you know.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Why ask a question when you know the answer?

You knew the answer to this one! Why, then, did you....well, you know.

Originally posted by leftwing:

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

I think you'll find we're open-minded

Trouble with an open mind is it gets filled with rubbish, and truth falls out if you don't close it.

Being open minded doesn't mean being silly and accept everything's that come across us. Because for being truly open minded one must have great critical thinking and actually examine the new idea.

Take a look:

It's a pretty good video, except for the example it gives about consciousness...

Sometimes dichotomies are correct. A bit in a computer (excluding quantum) can be on or off. A current can be present in a wire, or it isn't present. The case of consciousness, saying it is an emergent behavior is the same as saying that it equates to physical states in the brain, and saying it's a "brain process" is pretty vague and meaningless. There are only two options: 100% physical or partially non-physical. Consciousness must fall within one of these.

We are all just human, it takes a lot to tolerate some of the "God bashing", I have to tollerate it.

Athiest can be like those Christians that condenm a lot. Example: Once my Athiest friends in the anime club were talking, they did say some offensive things. I noticed a few newbs were at that meeting, I never saw the newbs again. My friends may have offended some of those newbs, they may have thought that christians were not excepted. My anime club is mostly Christian, we don't mind what you are, everybody is welcome.

Originally posted by RekaG:

We are all just human, it takes a lot to tolerate some of the "God bashing", I have to tollerate it.

Athiest can be like those Christians that condenm a lot. Example: Once my Athiest friends in the anime club were talking, they did say some offensive things. I noticed a few newbs were at that meeting, I never saw the newbs again. My friends may have offended some of those newbs, they may have thought that christians were not excepted. My anime club is mostly Christian, we don't mind what you are, everybody is welcome.

By an equal token, even if the newbs didn't come back because of the stupid comments of the atheists, could that not be seen as a condemnation of the atheist views?

Originally posted by parkerjm:

It's a pretty good video, except for the example it gives about consciousness...

Sometimes dichotomies are correct. A bit in a computer (excluding quantum) can be on or off. A current can be present in a wire, or it isn't present. The case of consciousness, saying it is an emergent behavior is the same as saying that it equates to physical states in the brain, and saying it's a "brain process" is pretty vague and meaningless. There are only two options: 100% physical or partially non-physical. Consciousness must fall within one of these.

I haven't seen the video, so I don't know what they said, but your example aren't ideal. A bit in a computer is just down to the level of current, not whether it's present or not - at the fundamental level, it's still an analogue quantity.

A dichotomy must be two mutually exclusive, non-overlapping things - whether consciousness is 100% physical or 90% physical are not exclusive proposals.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

Originally posted by RekaG:

We are all just human, it takes a lot to tolerate some of the "God bashing", I have to tollerate it.

Athiest can be like those Christians that condenm a lot. Example: Once my Athiest friends in the anime club were talking, they did say some offensive things. I noticed a few newbs were at that meeting, I never saw the newbs again. My friends may have offended some of those newbs, they may have thought that christians were not excepted. My anime club is mostly Christian, we don't mind what you are, everybody is welcome.

By an equal token, even if the newbs didn't come back because of the stupid comments of the atheists, could that not be seen as a condemnation of the atheist views?

Could be depending on the person, a lot of us have to go by the "everbody has their own view" clause to avoid fighting. Some Athiest although commonly judgemental and quick to assume,(I'm not, saying that Christians are not, I've heard Christians talk like Athiest, when they would talk about anime fanatics.) Athiest actually realize when they have done something wrong sometimes.

What were these offensive things? Were they along the lines of "Christians are bad people and they will die miserably and go to hell", along the lines of "I wonder what size wooden shoes Jesus was wearing when he walked on water", or along the lines of "we shouldn't have a government-sanctioned National Prayer Day/Creationism taught in school as science/etc." Or perhaps something completely different?

And judgmental how and about what?

Originally posted by RekaG:

We are all just human,

Not really, we have a mind which is autonomic, breathing is a function of the mind and other bodily functions, heartbeat etc. Conscious OTOH is free to roam and is omnipresent ie it can be in many places at the same time. I can think of many experiences in different places at the same time.
Death is confusing to many because of the misunderstanding of dimensions. We are all from a different dimension, alien if you like to earth, but ethnic to another dimension. Consciousness is omnipresent, has no substance or form, is not affected by experience, is perfect.

Originally posted by leftwing:

Conscious OTOH is free to roam and is omnipresent ie it can be in many places at the same time. I can think of many experiences in different places at the same time.

That's like saying a book doesn't exist in a particular time and space, because it can refer to events all over the world, or ones that haven't actually happened.

Consciousness is inherently tied to a physical body, regardless of what information it can recall or connect.

Originally posted by leftwing:

Originally posted by RekaG:

We are all just human,

Not really, we have a mind which is autonomic, breathing is a function of the mind and other bodily functions, heartbeat etc. Conscious OTOH is free to roam and is omnipresent ie it can be in many places at the same time. I can think of many experiences in different places at the same time.
Death is confusing to many because of the misunderstanding of dimensions. We are all from a different dimension, alien if you like to earth, but ethnic to another dimension. Consciousness is omnipresent, has no substance or form, is not affected by experience, is perfect.

Makes sense in some ways, in some ways correct, The Bible often speaks of us leaving the the flesh behind which doesn't really mean leaving your body. Basically it means leaving sin behind. Death is actually a very loose term. Worldly definition is no heartbeat, no physical function. Biblical definition: Sin, of the flesh and going to hell.(Which is not as vibrant as fiction makes it, believe me I wouldn't want anybody to, go to hell)

"Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
Forward into battle see His banners go!"

If anyone here can tell me what this means, I will convert to whatever branch of Christianity he espouses.

Originally posted by OnetimePoster:

"Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
Forward into battle see His banners go!"

If anyone here can tell me what this means, I will convert to whatever branch of Christianity he espouses.

Thats a really old church hymn. A song....Inspired by the Armour of God scriptures, my favorite is The Armour of Light scripture.

This argument has been in circulation ever since without a definit conclusion, were is it going to take us. what ever you believe is on your own.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

I haven't seen the video, so I don't know what they said, but your example aren't ideal. A bit in a computer is just down to the level of current, not whether it's present or not - at the fundamental level, it's still an analogue quantity.



A dichotomy must be two mutually exclusive, non-overlapping things - whether consciousness is 100% physical or 90% physical are not exclusive proposals.

Obviously a dichotomy must be two mutually exclusive options. The proposal that a non-physical world even exists is the difference here. 100% physical vs. 90% physical introduces an entire non-physical realm, which is 100% non-compatible with a 100% physical world.

A bit in a computer does come back to whether a current is within a certain threshold (within 3 volts an 5 volts = true and 1volt to 3 volts = false), but whether a current exists in a wire (any electrons are flowing from source to sink), is a true or false situation.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Are you graduated?

Are you avoiding his query?

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Are you graduated?

Are you avoiding his query?

Hmmm! Elementary my dear Watson. What's your input?

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

What's your input?

My eventual response will depend on your sucessfully answering his question, Mr. Holmes.

:Hey, Brain. What are we going to do the next day?

:Same thing we do every day, Pinky. Try and take over the world!

Don't argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

Don't argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

We all are idiots....I know, I can be one.

Originally posted by RekaG:

We all are idiots....I know, I can be one.

You are probablt right RK

I took email intelligence test yesterday and scored "Stupid" It take a big load off of my shoulders.You all should try it if in doubt.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

Don't argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

We all are idiots....I know, I can be one.

I don't think he was talking about you

Originally posted by Macallan:

I don't think he was talking about you

Just looking for argument... got work to do have a nice weekend...

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

Don't argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

We all are idiots....I know, I can be one.

I don't think he was talking about you

I know, I was saying that to make sure people know, I wasn't saying, I'm smarter than they are.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

Don't argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

We all are idiots....I know, I can be one.

I don't think he was talking about you

I know, I was saying that to make sure people know, I wasn't saying, I'm smarter than they are.

Well, if you think you have to explain it to them that's kind of defeating the purpose

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

Don't argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

We all are idiots....I know, I can be one.

I don't think he was talking about you

I know, I was saying that to make sure people know, I wasn't saying, I'm smarter than they are.

Well, if you think you have to explain it to them that's kind of defeating the purpose

Well people "think", its actually a sin to make people to make people "think your sinning".

You all are interesting, despite are differences in beliefs, I like you all.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Well people "think", its actually a sin to make people to make people "think your sinning".

Smells like thoughtcrime

Originally posted by RekaG:

You all are interesting, despite are differences in beliefs, I like you all.

They don't bite (much), they just want to play

Originally posted by RekaG:

You all are interesting, despite are differences in beliefs, I like you all.

You are interesting yourself.
I do hope you don't got the way of about 40% of the Christians that post on here.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Well people "think", its actually a sin to make people to make people "think your sinning".

Smells like thoughtcrime

Originally posted by RekaG:

You all are interesting, despite are differences in beliefs, I like you all.

They don't bite (much), they just want to play

What about you?......*Nya*

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

You all are interesting, despite are differences in beliefs, I like you all.

You are interesting yourself.
I do hope you don't got the way of about 40% of the Christians that post on here.

I hope, I don't either. I strive to be atleast a little different, because a lot of people that call themselves "Christian" make me ashamed and some do more harm than good. I know, I'm not the best, I'm still learning. Forgive me anybody if I have done you wrong. Forgive me if I'm if I lead you astray. T_T

Originally posted by RekaG:

I hope, I don't either.

What I was referring to, was that many Christians have passed through D&D and have debated quite civilly with their opposition.
However, when points were made that they refused to acknowledge, they went what I like to call "fundie" and started throwing personal attacks about as if it were the Yuletide season. Here's to hoping for a long and illustrious posting career for ya.
(Unless drinking is not right in your beliefs because any is "in excess" for ya. )

Originally posted by RekaG:

I strive to be atleast a little different, because a lot of people that call themselves "Christian" make me ashamed and some do more harm than good.

I live in Mississippi, and nowhere is that on display more prominently than here.
(Baptists are the worst, in my opinion. )

Originally posted by RekaG:

I know, I'm not the best, I'm still learning.

You are a recent convert?

Originally posted by RekaG:

I'm still learning.

Everyone is. Or should be

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

I hope, I don't either.

What I was referring to, was that many Christians have passed through D&D and have debated quite civilly with their opposition.
However, when points were made that they refused to acknowledge, they went what I like to call "fundie" and started throwing personal attacks about as if it were the Yuletide season. Here's to hoping for a long and illustrious posting career for ya.
(Unless drinking is not right in your beliefs because any is "in excess" for ya. )

Originally posted by RekaG:

I strive to be atleast a little different, because a lot of people that call themselves "Christian" make me ashamed and some do more harm than good.

I live in Mississippi, and nowhere is that on display more prominently than here.
(Baptists are the worst, in my opinion. )

Originally posted by RekaG:

I know, I'm not the best, I'm still learning.

You are a recent convert?

No, grew up in a "christian" family and they(including me) have never been the best example to eachother. Like McCallan said,"We all are, or supposed to be". I have had it hard, but not with people (outside my house anyway). I've had a inner battle for a long time.

*LOL* XD I understand that, I can be pretty nutty myself but I'm most of the time really careful. I'm guessing most use explitives when they come to their breaking point here? *LOL*

I like being honest but the thought of people even taking it as a offense.

I'd probably say Catholics' can be bad where I live depending on the church. My athiest friend was a victim, but for some reason he still believes the bible is right.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I like being honest but the thought of people even taking it as a offense.

In almost all cases that is their problem, not yours.
The general rule is, if you can think of it there will be someone who is offended by it. There are no known exceptions.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

I like being honest but the thought of people even taking it as a offense.

In almost all cases that is their problem, not yours.
The general rule is, if you can think of it there will be someone who is offended by it. There are no known exceptions.

You make a point, but there are some pretty heavy subjects that might make people think I'm saying, they are going to hell and I'm not, its Slightly more complex than that.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

I like being honest but the thought of people even taking it as a offense.

In almost all cases that is their problem, not yours.
The general rule is, if you can think of it there will be someone who is offended by it. There are no known exceptions.

You make a point, but there are some pretty heavy subjects that might make people think I'm saying, they are going to hell and I'm not, its Slightly more complex than that.

If people get you wrong you can always clarify. And proofread your posts ( I know I forget that occasionally but still ). Also, for every statement you can possibly make there is someone who will get it wrong. Happens ( you should know ), no big deal, unless the other guy makes it one. What I'm trying to say is that if people get you wrong it's not necessarily your fault and it's not something to lose much sleep about unless everyone gets you wrong all the time.
Of course it's not that simple, which is why I said 'in almost all cases.

Originally posted by RekaG:

You make a point, but there are some pretty heavy subjects that might make people think I'm saying, they are going to hell and I'm not

What do they have to fear?
Hell does not exist after all.
(And even if it did, it would be quite possibly the biggest contradiction in the bible.)

The trouble with this topic is objectivity gets thrown out completely. Atheists can’t see why some people need to believe in some vague God and Christians think everyone needs to believe in something. Truth is, if I act morally and contribute to society positively how does what I believe really matter? After all atheism and christianity aren’t the only view points yet these two seem the most at odds.

Originally posted by ensbb3:

The trouble with this topic is objectivity gets thrown out completely. Atheists can’t see why some people need to believe in some vague God and Christians think everyone needs to believe in something. Truth is, if I act morally and contribute to society positively how does what I believe really matter? After all atheism and christianity aren’t the only view points yet these two seem the most at odds.

What you "need" to believe is irrelevant regarding whether something is or isn't. And you know those people who act morally and contribute to society positively? They're kicked out of the Catholic Church. Some people in small towns do actually need to *pretend* to believe in order not to lose business. Your vision of a happy secular society where everyone believes whatever they want without anybody being appalled by it seems to be a false belief in and of itself. The American Dream is false as well. You've got a better chance of achieving the American Dream in (some parts of) Europe than you do in the US. Patriotism is equally ridiculous and often linked up with some kind of national religion. Support the government even when you disagree with them? Support the soldiers because they're putting their lives on the line for this country, even though they haven't had to actually do that since WW2? Oh please. But if you don't do so, you're not a good Christian. Pretty much any belief that is contradictory to the way things actually are is probably not a good thing. That's how you maintain things like class inequality, senseless wars, nationalism, racism, child abuse, etc. A belief in a creator may range anywhere from including all such nonsense to being more or less limited to the act of creation, but even then it's holding back science by claiming to know we already know all the answers or just by promoting crappy logic. Besides I wouldn't be surprised if it goes together with teaching ridiculous things like "women feel" and "men think," which again results in the human race as a whole being held back since half of us are too busy "feeling" and the other half too busy "thinking."

"the trouble with this topic"

... a provocative phrase!

Well I could add a couple or so, but try this one for size:

The title "Atheist v/s Christian views" implies that there are just the two viewpoints, the OP making it clear that a Christian regards an Atheist as a devil surrogate, in other words irredeemably wicked, give or take a few confessionals. Yet there are many other mind-sets than Christian look here for example, all of them condemned to the label "devil" because they don't follow the one true GOD, and therefore all consigned to Hell presumably. The myopic arrogance of religion leaves little room for understanding, let alone tolerance of anyone else.

But then people can worship cabbages for all I care, as long as they do not continually insist that the holy cabbage is the one and only answer to everything; there are no answers, only questions which are never answered.

Originally posted by string:

The title "Atheist v/s Christian views" implies that there are just the two viewpoints, the OP making it clear that a Christian regards an Atheist as a devil surrogate, in other words irredeemably wicked, give or take a few confessionals.

Polarizing instead of finding consensus. That's another problem.

Originally posted by string:

But then people can worship cabbages for all I care, as long as they do not continually insist that the holy cabbage is the one and only answer to everything; there are no answers, only questions which are never answered.

I sauerkraut!

I worship sauerkraut!

Christian sauerkraut or atheist sauerkraut?