Atheist v/s Christian views.

Atheist v/s Christian views.

Well, this is a story about two neighbours. One an atheist and the other a Christian. The former was always critisizing the latter, trying to convince him otherwise.

One day the Christian had financial problem and he prayed to GOD "Dear Father, I have no money and no food! Help me Lord." The atheist heard him pray and he devised a plan. So, he went to the grocery store and bought groceries for his neighbour without him knowing it. Early in the morning, he left the groceries at his neighbours door and went back home.

Soon afterwards, the Christian came out and found groceries in his front door. He happily shouted out, "Thank you Father for responding to my prayer!" The atheist came out with a slip showing him that he paid for the food. "Now, are you saying I'm your god? I heard your prayer."

The Christian said,"Thank you Lord for providing me with all the resources I need!" and he looked at his neighbour and said, "And thank you for letting the devil pay for them." And he smiled.

Just gets to show you that you can't change them two types.

Anyway, I don't know what happened next. Just thought we can share this.

Tizz.

It would be hard to say anything on this subject that someone wouldn’t consider provocative in some way. Even my small paragraph advocating utopian understanding and tolerance got shot down due to being “unrealistic”. And it is, though probably not because it is unachievable but more because no one believes it possible. Hence beliefs do matter and are a deciding factor even if they have no basis in reality.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Christian sauerkraut or atheist sauerkraut?

Jewish?

I was going to continue the humour with a list of various Christian sects, but I lost count.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Christian sauerkraut or atheist sauerkraut?

I don't care as long as it's not bavarian. And that's 'sauerkraut' only in american supermarkets anyway

Originally posted by Ward:

I was going to continue the humour with a list of various Christian sects, but I lost count.

Most southern krauts are catholics, most northern krauts are lutherans. Eastern krauts tend to be more on the agnostic/atheist side though

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Christian sauerkraut or atheist sauerkraut?

Jewish?

Nah, Taoist.

A little girl asked her teacher if whales can swallow humans.The teacher replied back with a "no". The little girl says to the teacher what about Jonas and the whale. The teacher replied that the story is not true. The little girl then says "I will just ask Jonas when I get to heaven." The teacher then says to the little girl "What if Jonas was bad and did'nt get to heaven". The little girl then replied "Well then you ask him."

I am strong in my conviction that Jesus walked the earth. I am not insecure or mad at the conversation we are having here. I just want someone to prove to me that GOD does not exsist. Someone prove to me or themselves that the BIBLE is lies.

If you're so sure, why you want someone to prove you wrong?

Welcome, BTW.

Originally posted by trout0211:

I just want someone to prove to me that GOD does not exsist.

One cannot disprove that which has never be proven to exist in the first place.

Originally posted by trout0211:

Someone prove to me or themselves that the BIBLE is lies.

Though I am not really trying that hard at proving to you that which you seek, have a look at this:


The question you have to ask yourself is, do you need the crutch that religion serves as, or do want to free yourself from the shackles of religion?
I give you these quotes to think about while you answer the question:

1. "What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." -Christopher Hitchens

2. "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." -Albert Einstein

3. "So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence." -Bertrand Russell

4. "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world." -Richard Dawkins

well I guess that video about says it all.

Originally posted by trout0211:

I just want someone to prove to me that GOD does not exsist.

You make the claim, you back it up. So far there is nothing to support your claim except an old book of dubious origins and the voices in some peoples' heads.

Originally posted by trout0211:

Someone prove to me or themselves that the BIBLE is lies.

That's easy - try to verify a bunch of Matthew's claimed 'prophecies', the writer was either illiterate or a liar, take your pick.

Originally posted by ensbb3:

If you're so sure, why you want someone to prove you wrong?

That's 'christian logic' for you - a claim, no matter how outlandish, insane, unsupportable etc. - is true until proven wrong as long as the person making the claim really, really wants it to be true.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by ensbb3:

If you're so sure, why you want someone to prove you wrong?

That's 'christian logic' for you - a claim, no matter how outlandish, insane, unsupportable etc. - is true until proven wrong as long as the person making the claim really, really wants it to be true.

Amen!

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

1. "What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." -Christopher Hitchens

Indeed, let's see if he comes up with anything. If he does I hereby predict it's another variation of some crap we've seen before. In fact, I'd personally go and buy him a cookie if he manages to come up with something truly original.

Originally posted by trout0211:

If all the books of the New Testiment were written at different times and different places then why don't they contradict each other. Why do they say the same thing.

No contradictions, eh? What were Jesus' last words again?

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by trout0211:

I just want someone to prove to me that GOD does not exsist.

You make the claim, you back it up. So far there is nothing to support your claim except an old book of dubious origins and the voices in some peoples' heads.

Originally posted by trout0211:

Someone prove to me or themselves that the BIBLE is lies.

That's easy - try to verify a bunch of Matthew's claimed 'prophecies', the writer was either illiterate or a liar, take your pick.

If all the books of the New Testiment were written at different times and different places then why don't they contradict each other. Why do they say the same thing.
wish you well. Don't fear the truth fear GOD

They actually don't say the same thing. Read Mark and then read John and tell me they say the same thing....

Originally posted by trout0211:

Why do they say the same thing.

They don't.
The "true" NT before the Catholic Church via the Council of Nicea altered it, would have included this in it:
(Gospel of Thomas, verse 16)
" Jesus said, "Men think, perhaps, that it is peace which I have come to cast upon the world. They do not know that it is
dissension which I have come to cast upon the earth: fire, sword, and war. For there will be five in a house: three will be againsttwo, and two against three, the father against the son, and the son against the father. And they will stand solitary."

That kinda contradicts your hippy-Jesus figure, huh?

Are you aware that your beloved Jesus is still the same smiter from the Old Testament? The vengeful, malevolent, filicidal, infantcidal, pestilential control-freak? No? Can't say that I am at all surprised!

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by trout0211:

If all the books of the New Testiment were written at different times and different places then why don't they contradict each other. Why do they say the same thing.

No contradictions, eh? What were Jesus' last words again?

Jesus last words are kinda like an Amway sales pitch. Go and make disciple of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Teaching them to obey everything that I commanded you to do and I am with you always unto the end of the world. So that means I teach you to goforth and make disciples then you go and make disciple then they go and make....the great pyramid scheme.

Originally posted by parkerjm:

They actually don't say the same thing. Read Mark and then read John and tell me they say the same thing....

And the synoptics are all based on the same text anyway, just with different, contradictory additions.

Originally posted by trout0211:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by trout0211:

If all the books of the New Testiment were written at different times and different places then why don't they contradict each other. Why do they say the same thing.

No contradictions, eh? What were Jesus' last words again?

Jesus last words are kinda like an Amway sales pitch. Go and make disciple of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Teaching them to obey everything that I commanded you to do and I am with you always unto the end of the world. So that means I teach you to goforth and make disciples then you go and make disciple then they go and make....the great pyramid scheme.

And another 'response' that has nothing to do with the statement is was pretending to answer

It's old EhloYahallah, what do you expect Mac?

Originally posted by trout0211:

If all the books of the New Testiment were written at different times and different places then why don't they contradict each other. Why do they say the same thing.

Are you defending a book you've never read? Oh, BTW you left out the first half of it.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by trout0211:

Why do they say the same thing.

They don't.
The "true" NT before the Catholic Church via the Council of Nicea altered it, would have included this in it:
(Gospel of Thomas, verse 16)
" Jesus said, "Men think, perhaps, that it is peace which I have come to cast upon the world. They do not know that it is
dissension which I have come to cast upon the earth: fire, sword, and war. For there will be five in a house: three will be againsttwo, and two against three, the father against the son, and the son against the father. And they will stand solitary."

That kinda contradicts your hippy-Jesus figure, huh?

Are you aware that your beloved Jesus is still the same smiter from the Old Testament? The vengeful, malevolent, filicidal, infantcidal, pestilential control-freak? No? Can't say that I am at all surprised!

sorry so long to get back to you....
Jesus indeed was a scary person when he spoke about the truth. I still don't see how that verse contradicts anything. Read the book of Luke12:51 somewhere around there. When and where was the book of Thomas writtenand, when and where was the book of Luke written. hummm...

Before I peace outta here just wanted to say books can be interpited in many ways. I can say one thing and someone else will read it as another. That my friends is the beauty of life.What is religion well some people drink religiously.....some smoke religiously....well you know ...what is faith... well I have faith that when it's time for me to go I know where I am going. Thanks for the laughs.

Originally posted by trout0211:

What is religion well some people drink religiously.....some smoke religiously....well you know ...what is faith... well I have faith that when it's time for me to go I know where I am going.

...others put lonely old women in the stake religiously, some send children religiously to a crusade and while yet others blow themselves religiously. Thats faith for you, the action itself is not that important as long as is religiously done. Beauty indeed.

And for the last remark, is simply priceless. Faith and knowledge in the same sentence, less than 10 words apart... you don't see that every day. Too bad you seem to think they mean the same thing.

Originally posted by trout0211:

Jesus indeed was a scary person when he spoke about the truth.

Scary my arse, I was pointing out the hypocrisy of what is said of him in the ancient book of literature known as the bible, as compared to gnostic texts.

Originally posted by trout0211:

I still don't see how that verse contradicts anything.

I'm not surprised. Would you like a long list of contradictions?
I'd be more than happy to provide them for ya.

Originally posted by trout0211:

some smoke religiously....

Ah, I see you have become acquainted with cantheism

Originally posted by trout0211:

well I have faith that when it's time for me to go I know where I am going.

I'll give you some assurance: the ground with the worms, or into a crematory if you choose that course of action.

Originally posted by Immanis:

... yet others blow themselves religiously.

I just wanna point this out... I'm not going to say anything.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by trout0211:

Jesus indeed was a scary person when he spoke about the truth.

Scary my arse, I was pointing out the hypocrisy of what is said of him in the ancient book of literature known as the bible, as compared to gnostic texts.

Originally posted by trout0211:

I still don't see how that verse contradicts anything.

I'm not surprised. Would you like a long list of contradictions?
I'd be more than happy to provide them for ya.

Originally posted by trout0211:

some smoke religiously....

Ah, I see you have become acquainted with cantheism

Originally posted by trout0211:

well I have faith that when it's time for me to go I know where I am going.

I'll give you some assurance: the ground with the worms, or into a crematory if you choose that course of action.

Please provide.......

Before he does I'd just like to say...

you can take passages of a text out of context and make it mean anything. Your confusion with understanding the contradictions really only shows you missed the original point of the author. This is probably why most preachers don't read whole books in church. preferring instead to skip around to make a point.

Of note, this is a tried and tired subject so really the burden of proof lies in you. get your facts in order before you make blind statements.

Originally posted by trout0211:

Please provide.......

Ok then:

1. The Last Words of Jesus:
-In Matthew 27:46 Jesus’ last words were "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani?" My God, my God, why have you abandoned me? (Mark 15:34) though it is Eloi instead of Eli.
-In Luke 23:46 Jesus cried: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit."
-In John 19:30, Jesus tasted the vinegar. Then he said,"It is finished." Jesus bowed his head and died.

2. The Sign of Jonas:
- "Then certain of the scribes and the Pharisees answer, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no signs be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."( Matthew12:38:40)
- Luke 11:29 "and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet"
-Mark is in contradiction with Matthew and Luke with regards to the sign of Jonas: "And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him. And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, why doth this generation seek after a sign? Verily I say unto you, There shall be no sign be given unto this generation, And he left them." (8:11-13).

3. Yahweh ( (G)god) vs the Trinity:
-In John 10:30, Jesus said, "I and my father are one."
-In John 14:28, Jesus said, "I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."

4. The Death of Judas:
- In Matthew 27:5 Judas hanged himself.
-In Acts 1:18, Luke wrote that Judas fell on his head, his body broke open, and all his intestines poured out.

5. When was Jesus crucified? :
- In Mark 15:25, "And it was the third hour, and they crucified him."
-In John 19:14-16 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour: and he (Pilate) saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him over therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away."

6. The Last Supper:
-John places the Last Supper "before the Passover celebration."
-All other three Gospels place the Last Supper during the celebration.
(Does it make a difference? Yes it does, if both sources claim to be inspired by Yahweh.)

7. The Unchangable Law:
-According to Matthew 5:18, Jesus said that not the tiniest bit of the Law could be changed. However, in Mark 7:19 Jesus declares that all foods are clean, thereby drastically changing the Law.
-The church tries to get around this obvious contradiction by artificially separating the Mosaic Law into the "ceremonial" law and the "moral" law, a separation which would have abhorred the Jews of Jesus' time. The Mark passage and similar ones like Acts 10:9-16 were added to accommodate the teaching of Paul regarding the Law (which was diametrically opposed to the teaching of Jesus on the Law) and to make the gospel palatable to the Gentiles.

8. The Great Commission
In Matthew 28:19 Jesus tells the eleven disciples to "go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit."
-This is obviously a later addition to the gospel, for two reasons:

--a. It took the church over two hundred years of fighting (sometimes bloody) over the doctrine of the trinity before this baptismal formula came into use. Had it been in the original gospel, there would have been no fighting.

--b. In Acts, when people are baptized, they are baptized just in the name of Jesus (Acts 8:16, 10:48, 19:5). Peter says explicitly that they are to "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" (Acts 2:38).

-This contradicts Jesus' earlier statement that his message was for the Jews only (Matthew 10:5-6, 15:24). The gospels, and especially Acts, have been edited to play this down, but the contradiction remains. It was the apostle Paul who, against the express wishes of Jesus, extended the gospel (Paul's version) to the gentiles.

I could go on, but will stop here for now.

wow! Nick, I guess you are studying theology. Great commentary!

i was always amazed at the efficiency of religious indoctrination in the US, now i know why sick mom

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

wow! Nick, I guess you are studying theology. Great commentary!

Yup - Dawg is great on this; fundamentalists argue with him at their peril. Never call his bluff on this type of thing.

Originally posted by ensbb3:

Originally posted by Immanis:

... yet others blow themselves religiously.

I just wanna point this out... I'm not going to say anything.

Where there's blow there must be equal and opposite suck

I'll add one of my own favorites, related to the core precept that deified Jesus:

John 20:1-9
1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"

3 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. 8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed.

Matthew 28:1-10
1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.

2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

5 The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you."

8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me."

Luke 24:1-12
1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.' " 8 Then they remembered his words.

9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. 11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense. 12 Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb. Bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves, and he went away, wondering to himself what had happened.

Geez, you can even hear the humming in their little brains as they wrote the passages: It was Mary Magdalene, no, the two Marys.. err you all are forgetting Joanna. They ran to Simon Peter and the loved disciple, no, make it to all 11 of us... wait, some were busy suiciding Judas, hmm better make the 10 of us, yes that would be better. How about guards? We didn't find anyone there! Hmm... thats bad, we need the sepulcher guarded, otherwise it would not be a miracle... put a couple of them just in case. Then the stone was removed.. no, thats too prosaic, make it an earthquake it has more punch. Then when they went inside, the sepulcher was empty... wait, there were two men in gleamed clothes, nah, someone will think that they moved the body and that would not be a miracle, make it an angel and make it sat in the stone. Then the woman were scared because someone have taken the lord from the tomb, no, wait, they were told that he was raised from the dead, WTF are you talking about? the Lord himself spoke with they and explain everything!

Matthew 16:28: "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Oops.

Originally posted by Thabotizz:

Ok guys whatever you atheists are having, let me in.

Prove to me there is no God. All you do is spew a lot of nonsense, crap and gibberish! The mind comprehends what it can perceive! Maybe lack of open mindedness is the cause. Give me facts, not unfounded statements!

Keep it simple.

I'm sorry my friend, but one can't "prove" a negative.

It's not up to us atheists to disprove the existence of a god; it's up to the religionists to prove the existence of one.

I'm also amused at the offensive tone of your language directed at the atheists on this forum; nonsense, crap, gibberish? Then again, this hypocritical, ad hominem response from religionists is pretty much par for the course I guess. If you're losing an argument, then you attack the person proposing it. All too easy... for the religionists.

I also can't stop laughing at your request to "give me facts, not unfounded statements"! What makes this so Monty Pythonesque is the fact it's coming from someone who has an imaginary friend up in the sky, and who apparently can perform all sorts of supernatural tricks. Oh dear LOL.

Jack.

Originally posted by reacher9:

it's up to the religionists to prove the existence of one.

that would probably go against his "Keep it simple" mantra, which basically eqates to "Goddidit".

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

Originally posted by reacher9:

it's up to the religionists to prove the existence of one.

that would probably go against his "Keep it simple" mantra, which basically eqates to "Goddidit".

"Goddidit" - nice turn of word that.

The first time I read it I misread it, which gave rise to another term

Godist - A ubiquitous label for the religious.

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

Originally posted by reacher9:

it's up to the religionists to prove the existence of one.

that would probably go against his "Keep it simple" mantra, which basically eqates to "Goddidit".

I've never got this either. According to the bible one of gods favorite things to do is smite the unbelievers. So why isn't he front and center turning us into pillars of salt, dropping plagues or causing floods? Wait, it isn't cause science explained how these things really happen now... is it? To me the reason religion tries to suppress free thinking is cause it holds such a weak case in explaining anything. In fact most often the explanation involves the magical will of some being that I'm not supposed to understand. But I do understand wrongs in the world. Bad things happen to children and good people. Quite often the innocent suffer while the wicket rule. Do I just stand by when I have a chance to help right one of these wrongs? Wrongs your god could of fixed with a thought. But I'm sure someone will throw up the inevitable, Gods plan argument yet I only speak of things the bible says he's done. So did he give up on us or did logic over come superstition? And now that people can explain how odd or uncommon things happen all the fundies are left with is, "Goddidit " and a brief explanation about how science can't prove everything. But what's funny is when I bring what science does know to the table showing that logic dictates the rest is understandable, God does not show up leaving the other side of the table, not surprisingly for me, empty.

I have a pet dragon by the way. He goes around giving me good luck, tho sometimes he lets bad things happen to me. I could go into great detail about all he's done... but I'm sure you believe me. If you wanna see him tho I'm sorry It may not be his will. He don't like to let everyone see him.

Originally posted by string:

Yup - Dawg is great on this

Thanks, String.

Originally posted by string:

fundamentalists argue with him at their peril. Never call his bluff on this type of thing.

Well, when one puts up with them every day in real life, seeing their comments on here and refuting them is too easy.

Originally posted by ensbb3:

I have a pet dragon by the way.

You too????
I have a dragon in my garage....

Originally posted by ensbb3:

According to the bible one of gods favorite things to do is smite the unbelievers.

That was really more of the god of the Old Testament.. the god of the New Testament is an entirely different god, really. He stopped talking to us, stopped acting on us, etc. It had to be that way right? God doesn't exist so he doesn't talk to people directly or smite sinners these days, so the authors of the New Testament had to take that into consideration.

Originally posted by parkerjm:

Originally posted by ensbb3:

According to the bible one of gods favorite things to do is smite the unbelievers.

That was really more of the god of the Old Testament.. the god of the New Testament is an entirely different god, really. He stopped talking to us, stopped acting on us, etc. It had to be that way right? God doesn't exist so he doesn't talk to people directly or smite sinners these days, so the authors of the New Testament had to take that into consideration.

So what you saying is, if your saying anything, is people started to understand more about how the world works and didn't fall for the same old bag of tricks. So the religion adapted maybe?

Originally posted by parkerjm:

Matthew 16:28: "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Oops.

They're supposed to watch him come in his kingdom?
I had no idea it was that kind of cult

Originally posted by ensbb3:

I have a pet dragon by the way. He goes around giving me good luck, tho sometimes he lets bad things happen to me. I could go into great detail about all he's done... but I'm sure you believe me. If you wanna see him tho I'm sorry It may not be his will. He don't like to let everyone see him.

Let me guess, he lives in your garage and since he floats in the air he doesn't leave footprints either?
Sounds like mine

Well almost mine is a dragon of my understanding. He don't float on mondays.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by string:

Yup - Dawg is great on this

Thanks, String.

Originally posted by string:

fundamentalists argue with him at their peril. Never call his bluff on this type of thing.

Well, when one puts up with them every day in real life, seeing their comments on here and refuting them is too easy.

Originally posted by ensbb3:

I have a pet dragon by the way.

You too????
I have a dragon in my garage....

Komodo, bearded, statue/plastic or costume?

One of each why? is that weired?

You don't, by chance, have mine? She flew away - I think she was afraid of my pet ant.

She was really cuddly that one.

Originally posted by Macallan:

They're supposed to watch him come in his kingdom?

was kingdom a common name for a female?

Originally posted by parkerjm:

God doesn't exist so he doesn't talk to people directly or smite sinners these days

Tell that one to the moneychangers in the temple!

Originally posted by string:

You don't, by chance, have mine? She flew away - I think she was afraid of my pet ant.

She was really cuddly that one.

So that's what your SWMBO looks like

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

Originally posted by Macallan:

They're supposed to watch him come in his kingdom?

was kingdom a common name for a female?

Wouldn't be the weirdest euphemism in the bible

:let's pray!

:waste your energy not mine.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by string:

You don't, by chance, have mine? She flew away - I think she was afraid of my pet ant.

She was really cuddly that one.

So that's what your SWMBO looks like

I could not possibly comment.

The claws are for gardening, are they?

My SWMBO always says "You scratch my back or i'lll scratch yours".

Always wondered about that.

Gee... as a lifelong atheist, I've managed to survive yet another day without being smitten (smote? smate? smitted?) by the big kahuna up in the sky.

Must be good old science at work here I guess?

—Jack.

gesmotten

Originally posted by reacher9:

Gee... as a lifelong atheist, I've managed to survive yet another day without being smitten (smote? smate? smitted?) by the big kahuna up in the sky.



Must be good old science at work here I guess?

Of course not.
It's the Invisible Pink Unicorn's unwavering protection against Yahweh.

"Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them." - Steve Eley

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by reacher9:

Gee... as a lifelong atheist, I've managed to survive yet another day without being smitten (smote? smate? smitted?) by the big kahuna up in the sky.



Must be good old science at work here I guess?

Of course not.
It's the Invisible Pink Unicorn's unwavering protection against Yahweh.

"Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them." - Steve Eley

You know thats a farce, right?.....its in the same league as the flying spagetti monster.

If D&D goes perma-404 I'll know God exists.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by reacher9:

Gee... as a lifelong atheist, I've managed to survive yet another day without being smitten (smote? smate? smitted?) by the big kahuna up in the sky.



Must be good old science at work here I guess?

Of course not.
It's the Invisible Pink Unicorn's unwavering protection against Yahweh.

"Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them." - Steve Eley

You know thats a farce, right?.....its in the same league as the flying spagetti monster.

The Lord works in mysterious ways!!!!!
magi

Originally posted by RekaG:

You know thats a farce, right?.....its in the same league as the flying spagetti monster.

How very beneficent and magnanimous of you to pronounce that observation.
May you be slapped by a thousand dry noodles and may She not shove Her Holy Hooves up thine arse for that comment. (You are picking on Her cousin after all as well. That's not even mentioning that both of Them are related to old Yahweh. Hence the similarity to the smiting...)

You know that your deity (Yahweh, YHWH, Jehova, whatever the heck you want to call the invention) is a farce, right?.....

Not to worry though, you aren't the only one with the neurological disorder known as religion.
Let me guess, you can't wait to die to be with your "Lord and Saviour"?
(The point should make itself. )

Methinks that thedawgfan should stay clear of small towns in Mississippi.

..... me lulz BIG time at Captain Obvious.

Does anyone else think the Christian in the OP's original story comes across as an unlikeable smartarse?

Originally posted by OnetimePoster:

Does anyone else think the Christian in the OP's original story comes across as an unlikeable smartarse?

I might if I could look at it as anything more than what it is, that is, a story designed to indoctrinate children.

Sophisticated Christians would even wince at this one. Notice that it is the atheist who is always criticizing his neighbor. Being too diffident to be an atheist, I've never put groceries at the doorstep of my Baptist preacher neighbor. He's been kind enough to similarly refrain.

The Book of Jaybro 2:1

Originally posted by Jaybro:

... it is the atheist who is always criticizing his neighbor. Being too diffident to be an atheist, I've never put groceries at the doorstep of my Baptist preacher neighbor. He's been kind enough to similarly refrain.

Our threadingly father, Jaybro be thine name amen

god did not create man, man created god. Think about it.

god did not create man, man created god. Think about it.

Originally posted by QScheffer:

god did not create man, man created god. Think about it.

Actually, man created craploads of gods.

Religion is a form of control. Used to justify political goals and keep people paying the bill. Religions of all kinds have been used as a mask for invasions, ethnic cleansings and paranoia. A propaganda based cultural defect brought on by ignorance and superstition.

Indeed. It was probably invented the day chieftan ugh got tired of personally keeping every member of his little tribe in line, so he made up another authority, higher than his big stick, which would punish them much worse than he ever could and which would see every movement of everyone of them. Of course it demanded sacrifices, taxes etc. - I'm sure you see where this leads.

Originally posted by QScheffer:

god did not create man, man created god. Think about it.

God did not create man, man created man. Think about it.

Cant copy my shit and just change it! Any how, entertain me... How did man create man? What do you get at?

Originally posted by QScheffer:

Any how, entertain me... How did man create man?

Well, boy meets girl, girl gets pregnant

Moderator edit: This comment has been removed for breaching our terms of use.

Originally posted by QScheffer:

How did man create man? What do you get at?

Well, as Mac pointed out, there is the physical aspect, but even more than that.

The idea of "man" is just something we've superimposed onto reality. Without any man to call himself a man, mankind wouldn't exist. There is no such thing as "man" in reality. There is only matter and energy and different combinations of and interactions with other forms of matter and energy. We assign terms to very broad, similar constructions of matter/energy, such as "man". We are the same as a rock or a bird or a star. Our "sentience" is just an illusion. Our perception of the universe couldn't be further from the truth.

There is your feel-good post of the day.

Originally posted by parkerjm:

.....We are the same as a rock or a bird or a star. Our "sentience" is just an illusion. Our perception of the universe couldn't be further from the truth.

Before I make a considered response, could you clarify your personal definition of "sentience"?

Mine's that something is sentient if it feels pain (this definition of course being reduced to its utmost simplicity).

I'm not clear as to whether you're saying rocks have the same degree (or any) sentience in the way birds and/or humans do, or whether you believe that we're arrogant enough to think that ONLY us humans have sentience.

—Cheers, Jack.

Originally posted by reacher9:

could you clarify your personal definition of "sentience"?

In context it seems to be about perception. And I'd agree there. However sentience isn't a exact term, it's relative. It can be used to describe feeling or perception (not just pain but any response to stimulus) which is about how we understand our world. But can also be used to describe consciousness, awareness... moreover, self-awareness. to me that's something we are stuck explaining more than an illusion.

Originally posted by reacher9:

Before I make a considered response, could you clarify your personal definition of "sentience"?

Mine's that something is sentient if it feels pain (this definition of course being reduced to its utmost simplicity).

I'm not clear as to whether you're saying rocks have the same degree (or any) sentience in the way birds and/or humans do, or whether you believe that we're arrogant enough to think that ONLY us humans have sentience.

I would have to argue that response to stimulation, such as a pain response, is not sentience. Even small organisms with a countably small number of cells can respond to outside stimulus such as light. Pain is not a "special" feeling by any means. It is just another stimulus response in my eyes.

I think sentience is the ability to "know" that you exist. If you can look in a mirror and think "that's me", you have some degree of sentience I think. Several others species exhibit this behavior, including dolphins. I think human sentience is far more advanced than that of other animals since our intellect is so far advanced, but I do believe that other species have some degree sentience. It's a scale, like anything else, more than a "yes" or "no" thing, I think.

I do not think rocks or birds have any sentience as they lack such a complicated central nervous system. Rocks, especially!

Originally posted by parkerjm:

I think sentience is the ability to "know" that you exist. If you can look in a mirror and think "that's me", you have some degree of sentience I think. Several others species exhibit this behavior, including dolphins. I think human sentience is far more advanced than that of other animals since our intellect is so far advanced, but I do believe that other species have some degree sentience. It's a scale, like anything else, more than a "yes" or "no" thing, I think.

Actually the more or less accepted definition seems to be the ability to feel or perceive - things like pain, fear and so on.
Self-awareness is something rather different. Speaking of which, I dimly remember reading about some larger squid species passing the mirror test a while ago - since they seem to communicate visually by flashing colours and patterns at each other that wouldn't be too surprising.

But pain is a feeling whereas fear is an emotion. I guess you can have emotional pain as well, such as grieving a dead relative, but I have a feeling the physical feeling of pain was implied before. I agree that having emotions is a symptom of sentience, but I am not so sure about physical feelings.

If a multicellular organism can sense light and move out of it, does that make it sentient?

Both are really the same if you think about it... Base emotions are about buffering you from pain. Causing you to act almost unconsciously to protect yourself and your group. more complex emotions stem from these but the objectives are still the same, rapid response to a stimulus.

Originally posted by ensbb3:

Both are really the same if you think about it... Base emotions are about buffering you from pain. Causing you to act almost unconsciously to protect yourself and your group. more complex emotions stem from these but the objectives are still the same, rapid response to a stimulus.

Or avoiding the stimulus altogether.

Originally posted by Macallan:

I dimly remember reading about some larger squid species passing the mirror test a while ago

Just watch out next time your at the beach, you may be on to something here too...
[/quote]

The squid could surpass us sometime in the next million years as the dominate species. they are just waiting for us to get outta the way.

Been there, done that

crap.

bout this? it's motivational?

If an athesit can survive without the help of God let them do that

At least god can take a break

Originally posted by krispymatt:

If an athesit can survive without the help of God let them do that

At least god can take a break

True, and atheists would also say that the religious are also surviving without a god.

Can gods survive without man?

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Can gods survive without man?

There are some virgin goddesses over there you know...

Originally posted by Immanis:

There are some virgin goddesses over there you know...

I've heard tell there's a virgin in our city, but can't confirm it.

Originally posted by Immanis:

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Can gods survive without man?

There are some virgin goddesses over there you know...

Perpetual or regenerative?

Originally posted by Macallan:

Perpetual or regenerative?

Without man around? Frustrated, I guess...

Originally posted by Immanis:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Perpetual or regenerative?

Without man around? Frustrated, I guess...

Well, there are - umm - tools

Hammers?

In my own opinion as a Christian, none of these people is a devil. But what i see here is Prayer answered. The Christian prayed, God made the other man to be at a place where he can hear him pray and to him out of mockery, he provided the food, because God want it to happen that way.

I had a teacher once, who was vehement that God answers all prayers. "Sometimes He says 'No'" she said.
She actually did say that, and was astonished that I, less than ten years old, couldn't contain my mirth. Thereafter she showed her dislike of me, several times a day, for the rest of the year I was in her class.

Originally posted by Ward:

Hammers?

If you're into that kind of things

Originally posted by emmatunde:

In my own opinion as a Christian, none of these people is a devil. But what i see here is Prayer answered. The Christian prayed, God made the other man to be at a place where he can hear him pray and to him out of mockery, he provided the food, because God want it to happen that way.

Err, that makes no sense whatsoever

Originally posted by OnetimePoster:

I had a teacher once, who was vehement that God answers all prayers. "Sometimes He says 'No'" she said.
She actually did say that, and was astonished that I, less than ten years old, couldn't contain my mirth. Thereafter she showed her dislike of me, several times a day, for the rest of the year I was in her class.

Shucks, I don't even know you and I don't like you. Additionally, you were never ten years old.

I would be hurt, except that I know you aren't a real person.
No real person says "shucks".

I was born in a manger.

Originally posted by OnetimePoster:

I would be hurt, except that I know you aren't a real person.
No real person says "shucks".

Bantay used to say it and he's not a real person either

Does anyone else find these one-post wonders exceedingly strange?
It's quite odd how half of our topics these days are by these drive-by posters.

It might have something to do with our Welcome Committee.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

It might have something to do with our Welcome Committee.

You're too scary

My wife thinks I'm cute. Let me ask here again. BRB.

Yes, she still thinks I'm cute.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Yes, she still thinks I'm cute.

Kinda sorta. But she's not actually that partisan.

Originally posted by emmatunde:

In my own opinion as a Christian, none of these people is a devil. But what i see here is Prayer answered. The Christian prayed, God made the other man to be at a place where he can hear him pray and to him out of mockery, he provided the food, because God want it to happen that way.

Ahhh...

I knew it had to be something so simple and yet so..... so logical.

Thank you kindly.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

My wife thinks I'm cute.....

Damn... that's what she always tells me!

(reacher9, you do know that Jaybro (PBUH) is god, right?)

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

It's quite odd how half of our topics these days are by these drive-by posters.

Someone ( IIRC it was aefields ) called them seagulls - swoop in, drop shit, swoop out.

Originally posted by parkerjm:

(reacher9, you do know that Jaybro (PBUH) is god, right?)

My front yard...

Originally posted by Macallan:

Someone ( IIRC it was aefields ) called them seagulls - swoop in, drop shit, swoop out.

That term definitely applies to the rush of 'noobs'.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

That term definitely applies to the rush of 'noobs'.

Hey.....

I represent that altitude!

hard to breath at that altitude?

We're all noobs in the eyes of the lard.

How many people can fit into an eye of the lard?

Originally posted by Jaybro:

We're all noobs in the eyes of the lard.

I think you may have a constriction of the vowel?

Originally posted by reacher9:

Originally posted by Jaybro:

We're all noobs in the eyes of the lard.

I think you may have a constriction of the vowel?

Fat chance !!

I feel it is my duty to remind all atheists, be they old curmudgeons or eager adolescents, that yes, every religion is based on one form of madness or another, but this has absolutely no relevance in any discourse as to the existence or otherwise of a god.

That an idea sprung from ignorance at best should have no relevance whatsoever regarding the veracity of a claim? I beg to differ. If gods were invented to explain things like weather, disease, life, etc. we can simply ask ourselves whether we need one or more gods to explain such things. And I don't mean need in an "I feel lonely without God; I need God" sense, but need in an "I need to charge my battery so my cellphone will work" sense. Of course even if we don't need any gods to explain any such things that still doesn't mean they don't exist, but if they might as well not exist and there's absolutely no way to tell one way or another, then acting like they do exist would range anywhere from ridiculous to destructive.

Originally posted by OnetimePoster:

I feel it is my duty to remind all atheists, be they old curmudgeons or eager adolescents, that yes, every religion is based on one form of madness or another, but this has absolutely no relevance in any discourse as to the existence or otherwise of a god.

It is quite relevant to the claim of their particular god's existence since the only thing they have which remotely resembles evidence if you don't look too hard is straight from that madness. Of course it's irrelevant for the existence of some god just like astrology is irrelevant to astronomy.
That said, it's impossible to prove that, for example, the deist's god doesn't exist. But since it supposedly doesn't interact with the universe at all its existence is completely irrelevant as well, in fact it 'exists' only to put a 'first cause' in place because people were uncomfortable with a universe of possibly infinite age or one without strict, universal causality. Traditional religion on the other hand is so overloaded with contradictions that you can easily show at least some of their claims to be false, especially the more insane inerrantists.
A god that doesn't do anything verifiable is indistinguishable from delusion.

Originally posted by Macallan:

A god that doesn't do anything verifiable

Someone who says this doesn't even understands the concept of God.
Witch, by the way, it's a common characteristic of materialists (that calls themselves atheists without any consistent comprehension of what they are talking about).

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Someone who says this doesn't even understands the concept of God.

nice dodge, but no jab

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Originally posted by Macallan:

A god that doesn't do anything verifiable

Someone who says this doesn't even understands the concept of God.

Which one is it this week?
Sounds like the vague, nebulous spook that couldn't create a fart outside your dreams.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

without any consistent comprehension of what they are talking about

Yup, that's you.

Which concept of which god/goddess?

The Christian one? Which denomination? Which sect?

Why not another religion? What of the other denominations? Sure about dismissing all the other sects?



Why not sort out which is the right one amongst yourselves before belittling us? Especially for not having a a 'concept' of what is, for all appearances and effect, a delusion.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Someone who says this doesn't even understands the concept of God.

It's not a difficult concept. "Magic sky-daddy" about covers it in general. Specific gods would require a more detailed description, but the theme would be the same.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Witch, by the way, it's a common characteristic of materialists (that calls themselves atheists without any consistent comprehension of what they are talking about).

There is only one criteria for describing someone as an atheist, as such it is absolutely consistent. Not believing in any deities.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Someone who says this doesn't even understands the concept of God.

I understand your god's concept quite well.
I've yet to understand how you, as a Catholic, can claim to be a monotheist when you have so many people you lot can pray to. (YHWH, Jesus, Mary, the large armada of saints,etc)

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Witch, by the way, it's a common characteristic of materialists (that calls themselves atheists without any consistent comprehension of what they are talking about).

I contend that we are all atheists. Do you believe in Thor, Odin, the FSM and the IPU? No? Then you are also an atheist.
I just go one god further.

Gotta share this statistical gem on belief by state in the U.S.
http://pewforum.org/How-Religious-Is-Your-State-.aspx

Dawg will enjoy the numbers on Mississippi.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Dawg will enjoy the numbers on Mississippi.

Dawg is hardly surprised at all.

MS may be 50th in everything else, but by god, MS will always be 1st in that category.

God bless Mississippi! Lord knows, it needs it!

I can see why many people post and leave D&D , The " Welcoming committee " tends to turn into a feeding frenzy when a person of faith steps forward to discuss ANY topic . It isn't easy to speak your mind knowing full hardy you will be attacked and underhandedly insulted by the ones here who deem themselves superior to anyone with a separate point of view , You don't discuss or debate you insult . God invokes such rage and blasphemous arrogance from you ( Some here are just wanna be fit ins that agree with the " Welcoming committee " to be " Cool ". ) Hey , I'd rather believe in my God and know there's more to life than just being a another organism . I don't see my faith as being as you do and thats fine with me , In the end when our bodies hit the dirt for the last time I will have the comfort of knowing my soul will ascend to heaven and if indeed there is nothing beyond death , I died trying to be a better man to all I encountered in life . Question is : How do you think the " Welcoming Committee " will receive you if your wrong . And before one of you says your gonna get banded or cast insult at me , Unlike the " Welcoming committee " I have a life outside this forum . If banding me is the price I pay then let it stand that you do not intimidate me with your boorish behavior .

Respecting people's faith? What for? I respect the people and their right to believe whatever they want, specially id they stand by their own beliefs, something that has become and oddity from lately. Also, it is quite interesting you ranting about the evil atheistswelcoming committee in a thread started with the sole purpose of showing how wicked we are. I find amusing how you manage to complain about the evil atheistswelcoming committee and threaten all of us with the pleasures of hell in the same paragraph.

Some general remarks about your rant:
-Insulting other forum members is against the rules, if you feel insulted by a poster, report the comment and let a moderator take action.
-God's rage does not seem to have any perceivable effect. Just think about it, we are atheists because we don't think there is evidence for the existence of a god. People dying mysteriously after badmouthing a deity counts as evidence, you know.
-You can believe whatever you want, but faith alone won't change reality. I read somewhere of a psychic that believed he could stop a train with the power of his mind. Reality disagreed vehemently, and it was pretty hard to collect the pieces.
-Same as before, you can have a cozy thought of an afterlife, with the bliss and the usual crap, that won't make it automatically true. The main difference between theists and us is that we care if our beliefs are true.
-I think your religion is evil. I would be fine if your god just granted eternal life to his followers, but thats was not enough for the bronze age band of pillagers, slavers, rapists and killers that funded your religion, they had to go farther and come up with eternal punishment for those who don't accept him. In the words of one of the many Christian saints: the bliss of heaven can't be complete without the screams of agony from hell. Absolutely disgusting.
-In all honesty I don't thing there is a need for banding against a theist, they simply keep spouting the same arguments over and over again as if it were the first time we heard them, and they don't budge no matter how many times we debunk them. It looks that some people simply can't state the difference between debating and preaching.

Originally posted by aziffle:

If banding me is the price I pay then let it stand that you do not intimidate me with your boorish behavior .

I fully agree.....In the end we shall see...I still pray for those..

This Atheist v Christian thing comes up here as regular as clockwork. The Christian arguer may get frustrated at non-believers and they in turn as is often here, get sarcastic in return and so it goes on. It is a never ending roundabout which very often sinks into disrespect, narkiness and at times very aggressive attacks because no-one is ever going to "win" so to speak. Both sides get frustrated because there is no finality to it so after initial debate it goes downhill and becomes worthless. This latest attempt is following tradition.

Don't feel it would do much good to complain to moderators because as i have observed the " Welcoming committee " goes along unchecked and they seem to be the ones whom squeal " Moderator !!! " so often . My rant is what it is , And I didn't point out a specific poster just a possible group ( But if the shoe fits by all means wear it ) . As for evil , Didn't mention that but that does seem to be the what your implying of my faith with your post ..... Hmmmm sure glad there was no opportunistic heathens around back in those early days of humanity to help us evil Christians pilfer , loot and rape as you pointed out . I didn't say you would be tortured in any way after your death , Just posed a question as to what a greeting party from the opposing side of your view may be like ( Once again if the shoe fits .... what am I saying you guys don't believe in hell right ? ) I aint trying to win friends and influence enemies , I really wish some folks here would discuss or debate and not bash . Respect my opinion and I will respect yours .