Usability Issues on Non Touch devices

Usability Issues on Non Touch devices

I highly appreciate all the hard work Opera devs have put into building this version and I am very thankful for it.
But for a number of reasons, OM 5 is low on usability on non touch devices, than OM4.2 . This is not a complaint. I understand Opera has its own business goals. But not everyone would have money to buy a touch device just to run Opera Mini ( when competing browsers work fine ) and I feel it is quite unfair to ask them to stick to OM4.2 if their phone is not good enough. I am not talking about age old feature phones, but say at least recent smartphones such as Nokia N86, N85 and N82.
Here is what as I understand, bothers non-touch users the most
1. Lack of navigational keys, such as #3. #3 was extremely useful to navigate on non-touch devices as these devices cannot swift through a page like a touch device can.
2. Flashy UI being too sluggish. This is certainly not a blame for introducing a new UI, but it is sluggish on most devices without a touchscreen.
3. Bookmark changes.
i. Bookmarks are now alphabetically sorted. Although this has plus sides, the downside is that if you have a number of bookmarks, it is a very tedious scrolling job on a *non-touch* device.
ii. Feeds. Not just that feeds are not synchronized, but the quick access is no longer available too. Whereas it was one click earlier, now takes three clicks. Again applying mainly for non-touch devices.

Another issue I've recently noticed is that OM5 does not remember the opened directories in file system like 4.2 used to do. This makes it really painful to upload for example a certain photo album to Facebook, using its multiple uploader, since you will always have to start from selecting the memory drive and pass through a myriad of folders.

Suggestions:
Add a search function to bookmarks.
Bring back #3.
Bring back file directory memorizing.

Let's have a reality check. Despite what some people would say, browsers like BOLT are now good enough to give OM a really good competition. BOLT loads almost every page which OM fails at, does not lose submitted texts, is now quite faster and I just realised this morning that it now even supports tagging photos on Facebook ( something only Ozone browser could do previously, if you had a Symbian phone ). This is when OM still cannot even properly access Facebook web version.
I regret having to complain this way, since I've been a very loyal OM user, supporter and an unofficial OM ambassador ( some might know how I've indirectly given a very good naurual marketing for OM through http://www.mobileroyale.co.cc/phone-blog-tale-wireless-blogger/ , ever since 2006.
I just hope Opera will realise that OM simply is nomore competitive on the huge non-touch sector. Although OM might easily beat the competition in still small touch sector.
Thanks

Posted from OM4.2

I agree with you. I too have used Opera Mini for a few years now and currently use it (OM 4.2) on my Nokia 6700.

I have tried OM5 and despite the fact it actually works very well on the 6700 I find the user interface to be poor compared to 4.2 on a standard key and D pad operated phone. In short too many compromises have been made for touch screen operation. I believe the "one size fits all" approach has resulted in an interface that is not totally ideal for either key pad or touch operation and usability has suffered, especially for standard phones.

Functionality I would also like to see return in OM5 is, mobile view as it was in OM4.2.

Perhaps the solution is separate keypad and touch screen builds of Opera Mini.

Reality check: Opera Mini keeps dominating the mobile browser market, and keeps growing faster than any of these "competitors".

Bolt has lots of problems. It usually fails to load any pages. I don't understand why people can't give feedback on Opera Mini without spamming Bolt. Do the Bolt guys pay people to do this?

prd3 I hate to get into arguements. But the reality is totally different from your perception. Obviously you don't use BOLT, so how come you know ?
And nobody has paid me. I too can suspect you're being paid by Opera then ?

I don't use Bolt as my primary browser, but I install every new version just to laugh at how crappy it is.

Reality is that the Bolt guys are having huge problems. Sites just won't load.

Prd3, for me every site I use currently works better on BOLT than OM. This doesn't mean I use BOLT always, I prefer OM due to mobile view. But accept reality, it renders every site better than OM. Any site works fine, and in fact as fast as OM. At least BOLT does not lose submitted text on a forum or email. I guess your special OM version doesn't lose submitted text either ? Must be my phone's fault or the site's fault.

As prd3 will tell you, it's your crappy phone, Miyuru.

Originally posted by H82typ:

As prd3 will tell you, it's your crappy phone, Miyuru.

With a broken JVM!

Originally posted by miyuru:

But accept reality, it renders every site better than OM.

Actually, it does not. In fact, a lot of the time it won't even try to render the site.

:fanboi:

@miyuru

I agree with you, and so do many others. There are plenty of comments about how cumbersome it is to use a touch-centric interface on a non-touch device. The only place I disagree with you is it's not the cost of a touch device that keeps me from using one--I prefer a non-touch device. I've had several touch screen devices in the past and none lasted very long for me.

I use OM 5 because OS 5 on the BlackBerry has rendered OM 4 useless, and because it's fast. I don't like the interface at all, but I put up with it for the speed. It's opposite everything else on the BlackBerry. Even the BlackBerry touch devices use the BB menu system.

I'll keep using OM 5 because it's better than alternatives for me, but I can't say I like as much as I used to.

@scottb Undoubtedly, I too am not a fan of touch devices. But I'm sure there is also a lot who cannot afford one.
The issue like 203 said is 'one size fits all' has not fit non-touch devices. Ironically, this is also the largest user base of OM.

hey you can add your feeds page to speed dial

one click away

@ares Yes, but it will only result in reduction of one speed dial and quick key. Plus, it doesn't solve any of the multiple other *annoying* issues.
I've so far taken a silent stance on these issues and avoided criticizing Opera as much as I can because I can understand how much hard work they put into this. And I've avoided switching to a different browser, because I've used OM for over 4 years and am really loyal to it. But in the face of ever increasing *and* never solving bugs which are now turning into very annoying issues ( eg: losing submitted text ), I should either switch to a different browser ( which I'm sure will be followed by many ) or push Opera for a quicker fixing. I am very sure that a great number of loyal Mini users are ready to help out Opera devs with testing if they wish.
To be honest, IMHO, if these issues persist the day a majority of non-touch users switch to a different browser is not far away. Sure one can tell OM has been downloaded (n)million of times, but it doesn't mean all those are using OM. Us old users know how good OM is, but a newbie on a non-touch will quickly decide OM is a sluggish browser that cannot even submit a form.

well it seems java[micro]edition cant cope with these flashey eye candy, its sluggish even on touch devices.but there is no better alternative to opera to date. Loyality is personal.dont tell me about option available they dont even stand a chance.all got one time install and immediate uninstallation follows.
one need better ui but not in lieu of performance.

well folks in opera need time, hope the form forgettings will addressed soon.

The problems you guys are describing are partly server problems affecting all handsets (e.g. text input disappearing), or they are specific to certain, but not all phones, whether touch or non-touch. Therefore the thread title is misleading. I am using an SE W705 non-touch phone, and scrolling has become extremely fast since OM5 final. It is actually so fast that I don't miss the #3 shortcut, as pressing and holding 5 or 8 do the job equally well. I experienced the same with a Moto KRZR K3.
Although I am not really happy about the current server problems (reloading pages instead of going to URL, sending text problems), other browser such as Bolt are so much worse on my phone(s) that I bet that the user base of OM will continue to grow exponentially. Most people don't use a browser for loyalty reasons, but they simply choose what works best.
That said, I am not afraid about Opera's business since the competitors are so much worse. Unfortunately!

Originally posted by HansKiefer:

The problems you guys are describing are partly server problems affecting all handsets (e.g. text input disappearing), or they are specific to certain, but not all phones, whether touch or non-touch. Therefore the thread title is misleading...

Yes, the server bugs affect all--that was brought up later. The OP did not mention those issues. Just shows how threads get off track. :-/

Originally posted by HansKiefer:

I am using an SE W705 non-touch phone, and scrolling has become extremely fast since OM5 final. It is actually so fast that I don't miss the #3 shortcut, as pressing and holding 5 or 8 do the job equally well. I experienced the same with a Moto KRZR K3.

On heavy pages (like hi5 web site) scrolling with zoom out is faster with 5b2 and all images are cached when I scroll back.

@hans well you are on QVGA display and on Ericcson. how do u u compare performance? my comparison is among UI performance of mini with respect to mobile version of opera. i am not talking about network but UI responsivness. well if you saying i believe its working great but but in comparison may differ

Originally posted by ares02021987:

how do u u compare performanc

I am comparing performance of OM 4.2 and 5.0. Some people here said usability on non-touch phones has become worse, however on the two phones I tested this is not true.

@HansKiefer You know, it's just your opinion. No offence intended, but a vast majority of users agree that v5.0 is low on usability on non-touch devices.

Originally posted by HansKiefer:

...
I am comparing performance of OM 4.2 and 5.0. Some people here said usability on non-touch phones has become worse, however on the two phones I tested this is not true.

For me, performance = speed, usability = how easily I can use the application. Is it easy to get around quickly? Do I navigate it like other apps on my device?

I don't consider the two comparable. Performance is good--OM 5 is fast and that's why I use it. It's "clunky" to navigate and bypasses the methods other BB apps use. That hurts usability.

Originally posted by miyuru:

a vast majority of users agree that v5.0 is low on usability on non-touch devices

No offense from my side either, but may I remind you that OM has some 55 M users, and you just know about a handful who are active in this forum. They might not be representative at all. Nor are Nokia phones representative for non-touchscreen phones in general.

That said, this forum is very helpful for the folks tracking down bugs at Opera, but it doesn't say much about non-posting (and maybe happy?) users out in the wild, nor is it of much relevance for strategic decisions made at Opera.

So, we have people here who like 4.2, others like 5.0 and still others Bolt. May everybody use their favorite browser.

@scottb: I agree 100% with your definitions of performance and usability. The thing is that I never used neither a BB nor a Nokia device. Therefore, I don't see specific problems related to those phones.

Originally posted by HansKiefer:

...this forum is very helpful for the folks tracking down bugs at Opera, but it doesn't say much about non-posting (and maybe happy?) users out in the wild, nor is it of much relevance for strategic decisions made at Opera.
...

Agreed--clearly the vast majority of users do not post here. I hope this forum has some relevance (however small it may be) to strategic decision or I wonder why it's here. If it's only for bug tracking, I guess that's a good thing too.

Originally posted by miyuru:

a vast majority of users agree that v5.0 is low on usability on non-touch devices

This claim is false. Unless you have conducted scientifically and statistically correct polls, of course. In which case I'd like you to show me the data. Because I'm guessing that Opera has done exactly that. They have a team of people doing stuff like design, usability testing, etc. There's an interview with the team on the Choose Opera blog.

So should we take your word for it, or should we take the word of the professionals/experts who do this for a living?

Originally posted by scottb:

There are plenty of comments about how cumbersome it is to use a touch-centric interface on a non-touch device.

In case you didn't notice, non-touch phones get a different UI which is not touch-centric. So apparently you are using the wrong version!

Originally posted by prd3:

In case you didn't notice, non-touch phones get a different UI which is not touch-centric. So apparently you are using the wrong version!

Are you using a BlackBerry device? There's only one interface available for my 8530 and it's a screen full of touch buttons. I'm not presented with touch or non-touch download options. I get one choice of OM 5 to download and that's the one I take. If there's another version out there I don't know where it's hiding.

The solution is a native Symbian version. And I feel that it's in the works.

Originally posted by miyuru:

The solution is a native Symbian version. And I feel that it's in the works.

Opera mini 5 java version works fine on s60v5.
I purchased a 5800 2 days ago and mini works like a dream.Why does it lag on s60 3rd?

@Chinu
Oh man thats contrasting to your motto that you wrote down LOL use it for longer than post your xp btw congat on your new phone.

Originally posted by ares02021987:

@Chinu
Oh man thats contrasting to your motto that you wrote down LOL use it for longer than post your xp btw congat on your new phone.

Lol,yeah.
Could u tell me the common probs faced on a 5800 via pm?

Touchscreen is future lol..
I am not using opera anymore coz none of my favorite sites work in it..cmon now page reloading and text disappearing bugs are there from months..youtube doesnt work..nor google reader...this is BAD!!!!

Originally posted by tommy-vercetti:

Touchscreen is future lol..
I am not using opera anymore coz none of my favorite sites work in it..cmon now page reloading and text disappearing bugs are there from months..youtube doesnt work..nor google reader...this is BAD!!!!

Haha,i presume u use safari.

@Chinu92 That is not a solution for everyone. And there will still be non-touch phones in the future too.
The reason is on one hand S60 5th Edition has an updated Java runtime on the other hand, the Mini 5 UI is more touch centric.

Originally posted by miyuru:

@Chinu92 That is not a solution for everyone. And there will still be non-touch phones in the future too.
The reason is on one hand S60 5th Edition has an updated Java runtime on the other hand, the Mini 5 UI is more touch centric.

Yeah,i know thats not a solution,i was just wondering.
You are right.Mini does have its problems from feature phones to smartphones.

Mini and Mobile are two very different products. Mini is a light weight web viewer that works great on slow connections while Mobile is the total opposite.

Usability is not just the UI. Don't take this offensively. But of course, even on usability, the two are very different since one is native and the other is Java.

I agree. I don't like touch phones, and have a SE W995, which is reasonably modern. I am still using 4.2 because I like 'page down' scrolling using the right-hand circlepad key and not 'press and hold till my thumbnail goes white and then skid past the part you want and have to go back up the page' scrolling.

Maybe the dev team could maintain both versions separately and call them 'touch' and 'key' versions.