What is the way forward in Palestine?

What is the way forward in Palestine?

A short post this time!
I am always very unhappy with the situation in the Middle East. Is the continuous conflict religious or political?
I suggest we we identify the problems and solution, so as to design an everlasting peace between the children of Father Abraham -- The Ishmaelites (Arabs) and the Israelites.

YO this whole thread seems completely out of place on this forum. I dont care if it is in the "Debates" section, it just seems weird. I wish you poeple would take this political socio middle east bullshit some ware else. WHY THIS FORUM??? jesus

Originally posted by Diego318:

WHY THIS FORUM??? jesus

I too blame Jesus.

But this thread is older than Diego in this forum

Originally posted by Diego318:

WHY THIS FORUM???

If you can't be bothered to know the answer to that question, I can't be bothered to give you a hint.

There is no way forward for the Palestinians outside of changing their culture. When Hamas took over Gaza they celebrated by throwing members of the opposition Al Fatah off of roof tops. Palestinians like others of their Arab culture are violent and settle political differences violently often by blowing themselves up with bombs. Another way Palestinians settle political differences is through rioting, their culture does not allow for any other way. Arab culture only allows for corrupt government by a ruling family. You need to look no further than Arafats widow she is getting twenty million dollars a year, why? All the rest of the Palestinian people get to watch their family starve because of their poor economy. The average Arabs only chance to improve himself and to provide for his family is to migrate to a none Arab country and look for work.

Can I remind those including non-brainwashed thedawgfan that Israel carries out international terrorism too? it also misused friendly countries such as Great Britain and Australia for it's own ends by stealing passports. They have done that one repeatedly, Odd how Americans have warped vision when it comes to Israel an d it's Gestapo - oops, Mossad? But there again they are learning well from the USA's CIA so blood brothers in arms methinks. Now the latest stuff from Tel Aviv whitewashing the ship invasion by commandos. Israel is a very deeply divided and flawed State and as i pointed out much of this due to the more fanatical Zionistsincomers who fill the stolen lands.

It is also belligerent we just need to listen to the threats of attacking Iran whilst not coming clean about their own "secret" atmic situation. Why isn;t the appropriate Atomic agency not getting the chance to send inspectors into Israel? America would fall over itself in the rush to block to block that one. One law for the Iranians another for the Jews? Israel is a law unto itself and a rogue State of another dimension. In a recent news report just 2 days ago from Israel a fanatical Jew called a fellow Israeli a Nazi. The person name called turned to camera with a sense if disbelief and commented shaking his head that there was a religious Jew calling another a Nazi. Israel botched the attack on the ship and people and media inside the country have said the same thing. They tripped over their arrogant shoe laces when they last invaded Lebanon and they had better watch out murmuring about Iran. It isn't Lebanon and they can no longer britzkreig as they did with impunity and self indulgence sticking two fingers up to the world. I don't have much time for arab terror but save me from the hypocrisy of the Jewish position.

The Palestinians deserve their land back, period.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Can I remind those including non-brainwashed...

Talking of brainwashed, what's your opinion on the British part of the tri-national invasion of Egypt in the Suez War?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

hypocrisy

You can spell it after all! Do you know what it means?

This may interest a few people here:

Originally posted by The Guardian:

The story behind the Palestine papers

How 1,600 confidential Palestinian records of negotiations with Israel from 1999 to 2010 came to be leaked to al-Jazeera

The revelations from the heart of the Israel-Palestine peace process are the product of the biggest documentary leak in the history of the Middle East conflict, and the most comprehensive exposure of the inside story of a decade of failed negotiations.

The 1,600 confidential records of hundreds of meetings between Palestinian, Israeli and US leaders, as well as emails and secret proposals, were leaked to the Qatar-based satellite TV channel al-Jazeera and shared exclusively with the Guardian. They cover the period from the runup to the ill-fated Camp David negotiations under US president Bill Clinton in 2000, to private discussions last year involving senior officials and politicians in the Obama administration.

The earliest document in the cache is a memo from September 1999 about Palestinian negotiating strategy. It suggests heeding the advice of the Rolling Stones: "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you might find you can get what you need." The final one, from last September, is a Palestinian Authority (PA) message to the Egyptian government about access to the Gaza Strip.
...

Also this:

Originally posted by The Guardian:

Israel spurned Palestinian offer of 'biggest Yerushalayim in history'

Leaked papers reveal negotiators proposed concessions on East Jerusalem settlements, Sheikh Jarrah and Old City holy sites

Palestinian negotiators secretly agreed to allow Israel to annex all but one of the settlements built in occupied East Jerusalem in the most far-reaching concessions ever made over the bitterly contested city. The offer was turned down by Israel's then foreign minister as inadequate.

Palestinian Authority leaders also privately discussed giving up part of the flashpoint Arab neighbourhood of Sheikh Jarrah, according to leaked documents. And they proposed a joint committee to take over the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount holy sites in the Old City of Jerusalem – the highly sensitive issue that, along with refugee rights, sank the Camp David talks in 2000 and triggered the second Palestinian intifada.

The unprecedented offer on the East Jerusalem settlements, made in May 2008, is revealed in confidential Palestinian records of negotiations with Israel in the year before the Gaza war of 2008-09.
...

(It appears not everyone trusts Julian Assange… )

Originally posted by socialistic:

The Palestinians deserve their land back, period.

Moses delivered the Israelite from slavery in Egypt, Moses died before he finally reached the promise land to settle them as a result of their disobedience to God. After him, they continue to suffer in the hands of Babilonians, Romans and even civil war among themselves plus diospora. First and second temples were already history.
So what can you say about the third/final temple and the issue of the promise land?

Originally posted by Macallan:

advice of the Rolling Stones

Words to live by..

Originally posted by DANBUZU:

Moses delivered the Israelite from slavery in Egypt,

I thought God kicked them out and scattered them ?
Deuteronomy 28:64 Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other.
There you will worship other gods–gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known.

Originally posted by MAXXTHRUST:

Originally posted by DANBUZU:

Moses delivered the Israelite from slavery in Egypt,

I thought God kicked them out and scattered them ?
Deuteronomy 28:64 Then the Lord will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other.
There you will worship other gods–gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known.

And (remember) when Moses said unto his people: O my people! Remember Allah's favour unto you, how He placed among you prophets, and He made you kings, and gave you that (which) He gave not to any (other) of (His) creatures. O my people! Go into the holy land which Allah hath ordained for you. Turn not in flight, for surely ye turn back as losers: They said: O Moses! Lo! a giant people (dwell) therein and lo! we go not in till they go forth from thence. When they go forth from thence, then we will enter (not till then). Then out spake two of those who feared (their Lord, men) unto whom Allah had been gracious: Enter in upon them by the gate, for if ye enter by it, lo! ye will be victorious. So put your trust (in Allah) if ye are indeed believers. They said: O Moses! We will never enter (the land) while they are in it. So go thou and thy Lord and fight! We will sit here. He said: My Lord! I have control of none but myself and my brother, so distinguish between us and the wrong-doing folk. (Their Lord) said: For this the land will surely be forbidden them for forty years that they will wander in the earth, bewildered. So grieve not over the wrongdoing folk. (Koran 5:20-26 )

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Can I remind those including non-brainwashed thedawgfan that Israel carries out international terrorism too?

Sure, why not?
But in turn, may I remind the ever-forgetful, ever-notorious, Mr. Howie that by way of being a citizen of the UK, who in turn supports the US-led support of Israel, that he also supports the state that he so dislikes?

Originally posted by DANBUZU:

Moses delivered the Israelite from slavery in Egypt, Moses died before he finally reached the promise land to settle them as a result of their disobedience to God. After him, they continue to suffer in the hands of Babilonians, Romans and even civil war among themselves plus diospora. First and second temples were already history.

Religious context has nothing at all to do with it, so please leave that out of it.
There is a case that can be pressed, as Mr. Howie never fails to not note, that the lands that the Palestinians had before the 1967 War could/possiblyshould be returned to the Palestinians.
The fables in the Qur'an and the Bible are not solid, verifiable fact, therefore that rubbishy argument has no standing in this debate.
Mind you, when I say fables, there are one or two small grains of truth in some of the holy books, as the remanents of Herod's Temple are able to be verified; but the rubbishy stories can and should be left out.

And it is the 2-faced US of A that supplies all that Israel needs for it's henchmen to stride the world knocking folk off, shutting blind eyes to passport theft, gives it the bombs, and facilities as well as cash to even exist? America isn't interested in democracy in the ME or it would have had it inside it's own borders. A nation that has sponsored so many fascist countries for decades and out to control the world whuile people in the US have to fight often for rights and squabble over a "Constititution" and have tens of millions staving and increasingly homeless. Talk about hypocrisy? It took an awful long time for everyone to get the damn vote in the land of the free and home of the brave and there it is lectyring evryone about democracy, freedom and law.

As for it's puppet State in the ME it cannot stand on it's own feet never mind pay for itself. It is split down the middle between the se3nsible Hew and the rabid Zionist. Today it wants more and more of East Jerusalem and does give a tinker's curse about anytone else but themselves. America has trained it well in it'w own image. Israel has no intention of giving up stolen lands so a bit of hype there but what can we expect from the country that pays to keep Israel alive? It was allowed to be in existence thanks to US money and Jewish hyperbole using historical blackmail so they can do what they damn want.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

And it is the....

blah blah blah.

Do wipe the spittle off your chin before you go out Mr Howie.

And perhaps when you go out, you should go further afield than normal. Then again, perhaps you shouldn't...

Aljazeera printed a couple of articles that suggest that the Palestinians are their own worst enemy. The Palestinian game plan has been to breed plenty of little Palestinians in the hope that eventually the Palestinians would constitute a majority in Israel along with the present majorities in Gaza and the West Bank. Well the Israeli's had their own counter plan. Somehow the Palestinians just do not get it, when it comes to developing a viable strategy.

http://english.aljazeera.net/palestinepapers/2011/01/201112412224387862.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/palestinepapers/2011/01/2011124105622779946.html

Nothing to contribute from Me-he-co as usual just the usual entertainment for a child mindset. Meanwhile back to the adult discussion while he gets to grips with his sexual tendencies.

The latest suggested leaks suggest that Israel continues to adopt an obstinate and intransigent stance. It even snubs it's US paymasters and supplier of existence now. It can do this with impunity and one of the traits of the Israelis. They don't give a dman about anyon else in the world and the US have helped create a monster that bites even them. It will keep illegally build houses where they damn well like and to Hell with everyone. It wil also continue as a bitterly divided nation of the belligerent and the ones wanting peace. Trouble is the hawks are in the ascednecy and the more Zionists who flock in to steal land the worse the situation gets. The Middle East may well be a hitch-potch of countries but that INCLUDES Israel as it has no moral high ground to take nor is it immune from all the divisions inside itself. If it ecer disappered I wouldn't lose much sleep although the decents in Israel would suffer for teh jackboot mob. Recently there was a giagantic peace rally there but you would hardly know it as it doesn't fit in with the media picture.

When young I was pro Israeli, Then I started to think that the Palestinians have a point. Presently I would not advocate either cause. I side with the Israel because the threat of violent Islam imposed by force is far worse than anything Zionism has done to the world. Islam is malignant to itself and any society that has been forced to embrace it. People under Islamic governments are subsisting in the poorest and most violent countries on the earth.

Well I would accept that overall the Muslim threat is more predominate as it is literally everywhere whether in a leading city or in a holiday place. There are some occasional murmourings from leading moderate Muslims here abot the burka nonsense and concern over radicals but overall there tends to be a reluctance to be seen criticisng such a Messianic and globally striding religion. There is a leading Conservative party figure Baroness Wasrsi who likes to portray herself as a modern open-minded Muslim but that underlying factor I mention about being critical shows. Just days ago she made a comment tha there are no moderates and no extremist Muslims there are "only Muslims"!?? Yeah, tell that to all those maimedand the relations of those blown to bits and so on. What utter nonsense. It is Islam all over the world that is practicing this widcespread mayhem whether moderates like to be reminded or not. We do not have international religious organisations all over the dashed place blowing us up it is the preserve of islam.

We kuffirs are a bad bunch but meantime they will flood in here and take the evil people welfare benefits and all the facilities of our Welfare State whilst wanting us to be destroyed as unbelievers. What is we have now - raplidly approaching 3 million and growing like rabbits. They tend to have 4 times a smany children so it wil speed up the takeover towards the end of century. France has a worse situation and Germany is finding out the truth now too. We are condemned as evil but take our money. Must say that at least i don't have to worry about Zionists taking over but Islam will at the raste things are going. When a society is down to one and a bit kids per couple it has no chance of recovery and thsat is the way Britain and europe is going. With as many as 8 in Islamic families the writing is on the wall. You will have a longer way to go grysmn but we will be a Muslim hellhhole first along with Europe and heaven help those not of the religion of peace. In this realm of things Islam is a ong time bigger threat than even the damn Zionists!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

we will be a Muslim hellhhole first along with Europe and heaven help those not of the religion of peace. In this realm of things Islam is a ong time bigger threat than even the damn Zionists!

There's spittle on your chin again RJ! Breathe deeply, wipe it all off, take one of the blue pills, and relax!

(And not everyone trusts the Guardian… )

Originally posted by grysmn:

...most violent countries on the earth.

Those damned Islamists!


You might give this a once-over:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations

Originally posted by rjhowie:

You will have a longer way to go grysmn but we will be a Muslim hellhhole first along with Europe and heaven help those not of the religion of peace. In this realm of things Islam is a ong time bigger threat than even the damn Zionists!

If Islam can be contained in it's present geographic boundaries it will implode. Muslim countries are the poorest countries on the earth as a direct result of the violent implementation of Islam. For example half of Egypt's population makes less than two usd per day. If a family has a choice of being Muslim and being poor and hungry or changing to another culture and being fed and rich they will choose change. Where Islam has traditionally been successful is in violently imposing itself on non Muslim areas and taking the wealth from the non Muslim portion. Islamic countries have only been converted to Islam by violence. When Islam imposes itself on a new area it is like killing the proverbial golden goose. Muslims do not produce like non Muslims, Muslims tend to only want to engage in trades that Muhammad had, A country can only absorb so many cutthroats, rapists and robbers, the trades of Muhammad. Muslims have another productivity problem in that they are required to meet five times a day for prayer, which includes time for preparation. When everyone is forced to convert to Islam there is no one producing anymore, there is only violence from at the family level against women and children to the national level in the form of rioting in the streets. Islam claims that there is peace in the Countries that embrace Islam, yet they require a truce to make the yearly Hadj. When one hears of a suicide or car bombs it is a Muslim act of violence.

Originally posted by grysmn:

Muslim countries are the poorest countries on the earth as a direct result of the violent implementation of Islam.

The richest country on the planet per capita is an Islamic country. Two more Islamic countries feature in the top 10. So you are either ignorant or lying. Or both.

Originally posted by grysmn:

Muslim countries are the poorest countries on the earth as a direct result of the violent implementation of Islam.

Alternatively, Islamic countries that are poor, are so as a direct result of centuries of colonialism, when violent Christian nations plundered and pillaged their natural wealth, destabilised these societies and continue to this day to operate a global financial system which disadvantages them.

However, this interpretation relies solely on facts and not prejudice. So I understand your error.

Originally posted by grysmn:

. Islamic countries have only been converted to Islam by violence.

And Latin America was converted to Christianity through peace? I think not...can you spell 'hypocrisy'?

Originally posted by grysmn:

A country can only absorb so many cutthroats, rapists and robbers, the trades of Muhammad.

Also the trades of Christianity. The evidence, which you conveniently choose to ignore, suggest Jesus was likely a Roman era terrorist. I understand why you ignore the evidence. Ignore is after all related to the word 'ignorance'.

Originally posted by grysmn:

When one hears of a suicide or car bombs it is a Muslim act of violence.

Only when one listens only when the word suicide, car bomb AND Muslim are said in the same sentence. As was recently shown, your ignorance here is startling. You claimed in the European terrorism thread that 99.9% of all terrorists are Muslim, and yet the facts showed that in fact only 0.4% of Muslims were terrorists.

Gosh you really have a lot to learn!!! Ever spent any time in an Islamic country? I shouldn't think so. I've been through a few. From experience, I can tell you that you're full of hogwash and BS.

Interesting that smart alec queries grysmn on whether he can spell 'hypocrisy' when he himself practices it. Seems it is all the Wetsreners and usally whites fault. We didn't train them to stone people to death, cut their hands off for theft, etc. Likewise it it was Muslim terror groups that plundered Eurpean coasts and over the centuries took almost a million whites into slavery. We ars such a bad lot according to smarty that millions of Muslims come here to Europe to apparently get a better life. That they come from prehistoric hell-holes created by their own kind means nothing. It is the only major world religion that has legions of killers wandering all over the planet to maim and kill just because folk aren't Muslim. There are no Christian, Hindu, Buddist, Jewish organisations like Al Queda and the others. For all that we are the evil ones and a bad society, etc they are happy enough to use our modern inventions like mobil phones, the internet and up to date killing methods to do their worst. Many of these same pals of garydenness were actually born in the civilised nations of Europe but that doesn't stop them wanting to be sword bearers for islam. It is always the samee with liberal do-gooder mindsets and blame everyone else including us forIslamist world terrorism. Had garydennes been active at WW2 he would have been ideal for slipping into the fiefdom of Qusling or the Milice in France. A fellow traveller who in his aim of putting down anyone outside of his shameful outlook is to be sneered at. Bty the end of this century in this Kingdom people like moderate Muslims (yep them too) those standing against the advancement of Islam and the garydenness people will be swept away in an Islamic fundie dictatorship. Islam and emocracy do not work.

They will outbreed us here in GB and Europe the demographics are already in place. And I would rather have spittle on my face than be the cowardly, fellow travelling encourager of terror.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

on whether he can spell 'hypocrisy

Hmmm....that is a pretty easy word to spell I guess. I'll try and think of something tougher. Let's try 'Westerners'....

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Wetsreners

Originally posted by rjhowie:

There are no Christian, Hindu, Buddist, Jewish organisations like Al Queda and the others.

Erm....CIA? MI6? I'm sure you've mentioned Mossad yourself....

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Many of these same pals of garydenness

My pals? Oh Howie, don't fret! I think Islam is every bit as ridiculous and silly as Christianity!

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Had garydennes been active at WW2 he would have been ideal for slipping into the fiefdom of Qusling or the Milice in France.

Really? I have served Mr Howie, in the RAF. Have you? No? Was the military a bit too 'manly' for your liking? A bit too tough?

Originally posted by rjhowie:

than be the cowardly, fellow travelling encourager of terror.

Ironic. You don't travel anywhere beyond the familiar <i>because</i> you're too scared of what you don't understand. As for suggesting I am an 'encourager of terror'.....steady on there old chap! I've not joined any terror organisations lately, be they Al Qaeda or the Orange Order etc.

Mossad for all it's an evil thing is not a religion and there is no comparable religion with as many terrorist tentavles as Islam. That has not yet been found to be a false statement for all the hype being splashed around.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Mossad for all it's an evil thing is not a religion

You said, and I quote...

Originally posted by rjhowie:

Jewish organisations

And Mossad is most certainly a Jewish organisation.

Originally posted by rjhowie:

That has not yet been found to be a false statement for all the hype being splashed around.

You have issues with definitions. That's all.

The usual liberal thinking mind that wanders off into odd woolliness. Of course Mossad is a bad crowd but it is still not a massive world religion like islam for Heaven's sake. It is Muslims well supported who mount a continuous global movement with the intent of dominating or blowing uo the rest of us - take your pick. There is no comparison to the bad guys in Mossad who are not into world rule. It is the oldest trick by the thinking mind to try and relate to daft parallels in an effort to dilute the argument. I well remember the mass jubilation at 9/11. Mossad is working at the best of a nefarious State whereas Muslim terror is to challenge the whole world.