I've got a question?

I've got a question?

I've never asked anybody to prove their beliefs viable, why do people feel the need to prove me wrong?

I'm free to express my beliefs. I don't question the views of others, atleast not on purpose.

I guess its human nature to defend one's beliefs. I know its not necessary to defend mine, by expirience, I know what I believe is true.

A thread got deleted because a conversation was going too far, you know. I guess there are limits?

What are your thoughts?

88 Posts, some of which (excluding this) are threads you started, and you still haven't read the <a href="http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=64698">Posting Rules</a>.

I thought I can delete my post, I've gave some thought. Nah....I don't have to know.

Originally posted by Vectronic:

88 Posts, some of which (excluding this) are threads you started, and you still haven't read the Posting Rules.

I don't see much, all I see is typical forum stuff. You should have the "others" read to.

Yeah its true, I don't expect people to challenge me on. Its happens all the time, its unevoidable.

All I did in the "who came first " thread was gave the answer I know. "Only God knows", with a possibilty on how it came to be that we have different skin colors.

There's a group of posters who challenge any believer in God to prove his/her beliefs, while they hold themselves immune to having to prove that their belief that there is no God holds any water. I have some question if there is any proof you can give on a forum that could ever satisfy their demands for proof. Nothing new there, Jesus said some wouldn't believe even if you raised someone from the dead, and this was proven to be true when He was put to death by people who knew he had done that very miracle. So, how do you prove/disprove the existence of God on a forum when you might have a hard time proving/disproving His existence in person, with actual miracles? We're talking seriously entrenched positions here with folk who have reason NOT to give up their positions even if.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I've never asked anybody to prove their beliefs viable, why do people feel the need to prove me wrong?

Semantics. Unsupportable beliefs stated as, well, opinions won't tick many people off, but unsupportable beliefs stated as fact will trigger a few bullshit detectors.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I'm free to express my beliefs.

Of course you are - we couldn't keep you from it even if we wanted to. Don't confuse opposition to your views with attempts to shut you up.
Quite the opposite actually, if anyone did indeed try to shut you up somehow it's a safe bet that the regulars here forget their differences and eat him alive.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I don't question the views of others, atleast not on purpose.

Why not? If you think it's bullshit and you have a good reason to think so why not post it? They named it Debates & Discussions, not Fluffy Bunny Preaching To The Choir.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I guess its human nature to defend one's beliefs. I know its not necessary to defend mine, by expirience, I know what I believe is true.

What's good enough for you may or may not be good enough for others ( and the other way around of course ). If you can't defend them they're probably not quite as true as you think they are though.

Originally posted by RekaG:

A thread got deleted because a conversation was going too far, you know. I guess there are limits?

The rules are pretty simple, the limit is personal attacks, racist crap and similar rubbish. If a thread degenerates into a flame war it will be closed, deleted, whatever the mod in question thinks appropriate.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

So, how do you prove/disprove the existence of God on a forum when you might have a hard time proving/disproving His existence in person, with actual miracles?

What miracles? All we have are unreliable, biased and mutually contradictory 5th hand accounts, most of which are copied from each other and no independent confirmation whatsoever.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

So, how do you prove/disprove the existence of God on a forum when you might have a hard time proving/disproving His existence in person, with actual miracles?

What miracles? All we have are unreliable, biased and mutually contradictory 5th hand accounts, most of which are copied from each other and no independent confirmation whatsoever.

Thanks (I think) for proving my point. Trying to prove that God exists on a forum would be difficult if not impossible, especially with someone who might not accept proof even if given in person.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

So, how do you prove/disprove the existence of God on a forum when you might have a hard time proving/disproving His existence in person, with actual miracles?

What miracles? All we have are unreliable, biased and mutually contradictory 5th hand accounts, most of which are copied from each other and no independent confirmation whatsoever.

Thanks (I think) for proving my point. Trying to prove that God exists on a forum would be difficult if not impossible, especially with someone who might not accept proof even if given in person.

Nothing to do with the forum - you simply can't prove it with the materials available. Believe it or not we'd accept proof if you or anyone else could come up with anything like that.
Maybe we have different definitions of 'proof' - I'd stick with the dictionary, a collection of dubious ( Who wrote them again? Not according to tradition but in real life. ), biased accounts, handpicked for doctrine friendliness and without independent confirmation proves nothing whatsoever. We'd have to look for traces left behind by the events described, independent sources etc. - none of that has been found. Of course that doesn't prove that your god doesn't exist and a being with half the power attributed to it could certainly hide from us. The problem with that - an undetectable god is indistinguishable from a nonexisting god.

Originally posted by Macallan:

but unsupportable beliefs stated as fact will trigger a few bullshit detectors.

Yes indeed it will.

Originally posted by Macallan:

The problem with that - an undetectable god is indistinguishable from a nonexisting god.

Voices in people's heads that only manage to talk in their heads don't help the matter either.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

There's a group of posters who challenge any believer in God to prove his/her beliefs, while they hold themselves immune to having to prove that their belief that there is no God holds any water.

And that is the rest of the story.

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

There's a group of posters who challenge any believer in God to prove his/her beliefs, while they hold themselves immune to having to prove that their belief that there is no God holds any water. I have some question if there is any proof you can give on a forum that could ever satisfy their demands for proof. Nothing new there, Jesus said some wouldn't believe even if you raised someone from the dead, and this was proven to be true when He was put to death by people who knew he had done that very miracle. So, how do you prove/disprove the existence of God on a forum when you might have a hard time proving/disproving His existence in person, with actual miracles? We're talking seriously entrenched positions here with folk who have reason NOT to give up their positions even if.

Everything I know, that can prove God's existence and everything coherent that in scripture that prove God's love, they question. So I'd rather peacfully express my opinion without flammer, everybody is entitled to their opinion even if it sounds like "BS". @McCallen that was for you.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

I've never asked anybody to prove their beliefs viable, why do people feel the need to prove me wrong?

Semantics. Unsupportable beliefs stated as, well, opinions won't tick many people off, but unsupportable beliefs stated as fact will trigger a few bullshit detectors.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I'm free to express my beliefs.

Of course you are - we couldn't keep you from it even if we wanted to. Don't confuse opposition to your views with attempts to shut you up.
Quite the opposite actually, if anyone did indeed try to shut you up somehow it's a safe bet that the regulars here forget their differences and eat him alive.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I don't question the views of others, atleast not on purpose.

Why not? If you think it's bullshit and you have a good reason to think so why not post it? They named it Debates & Discussions, not Fluffy Bunny Preaching To The Choir.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I guess its human nature to defend one's beliefs. I know its not necessary to defend mine, by expirience, I know what I believe is true.

What's good enough for you may or may not be good enough for others ( and the other way around of course ). If you can't defend them they're probably not quite as true as you think they are though.

Originally posted by RekaG:

A thread got deleted because a conversation was going too far, you know. I guess there are limits?

The rules are pretty simple, the limit is personal attacks, racist crap and similar rubbish. If a thread degenerates into a flame war it will be closed, deleted, whatever the mod in question thinks appropriate.

I can't decide this Mr Flammer, but you should probably be banned. You make sound like no one can express their opinion, if it doesn't agree with yours. Do you enjoy offending people, provoking people to join your flamming war, its pointless and it gets the mods ticked.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

I've never asked anybody to prove their beliefs viable, why do people feel the need to prove me wrong?

Semantics. Unsupportable beliefs stated as, well, opinions won't tick many people off, but unsupportable beliefs stated as fact will trigger a few bullshit detectors.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I'm free to express my beliefs.

Of course you are - we couldn't keep you from it even if we wanted to. Don't confuse opposition to your views with attempts to shut you up.
Quite the opposite actually, if anyone did indeed try to shut you up somehow it's a safe bet that the regulars here forget their differences and eat him alive.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I don't question the views of others, atleast not on purpose.

Why not? If you think it's bullshit and you have a good reason to think so why not post it? They named it Debates & Discussions, not Fluffy Bunny Preaching To The Choir.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I guess its human nature to defend one's beliefs. I know its not necessary to defend mine, by expirience, I know what I believe is true.

What's good enough for you may or may not be good enough for others ( and the other way around of course ). If you can't defend them they're probably not quite as true as you think they are though.

Originally posted by RekaG:

A thread got deleted because a conversation was going too far, you know. I guess there are limits?

The rules are pretty simple, the limit is personal attacks, racist crap and similar rubbish. If a thread degenerates into a flame war it will be closed, deleted, whatever the mod in question thinks appropriate.

I can't decide this Mr Flammer, but you should probably be banned.

Go ahead and tell the mods.

Originally posted by RekaG:

You make sound like no one can express their opinion, if it doesn't agree with yours.

Then you better read again because that's not what I said. Quite the opposite actually.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Do you enjoy offending people, provoking people to join your flamming war, its pointless and it gets the mods ticked.

Mods ticked?

Where?
Offense lies in the eye of the beholder. Actually I find this comment of yours quite offensive since it's a classical example of a strawman fallacy - you complain about me saying something that I didn't actually say. And on top of that you quoted the whole thing so anyone with basic reading comprehension can verify it. Do you enjoy shooting yourself in the foot with a shotgun?

Originally posted by RekaG:

Everything I know, that can prove God's existence and everything coherent that in scripture that prove God's love, they question.

Well, if it actually proves your god where is the problem? Show us the proof and get it over with.

Originally posted by RekaG:

So I'd rather peacfully express my opinion without flammer, everybody is entitled to their opinion even if it sounds like "BS".

Where exactly did I say that you or anyone else isn't entitled to their opinions, to express them etc.?

Originally posted by RekaG:

@McCallen that was for you.

Now you're insulting me

Having an opinion isn't a problem. Having an opinion and declaring it as unassailable - that somehow religion is an untouchable subject that cannot be debated - is a problem for a lot of people.

Mac! What did you do?!

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

There's a group of posters who challenge any believer in God to prove his/her beliefs, while they hold themselves immune to having to prove that their belief that there is no God holds any water.

Atheism is the rejection of the theist claims, not the affirmation that there is no God. Is impossible to prove the non existence of anything, to do so you must inspect everything in the universe, test it against the thing you want to disprove and thats simply not possible. For starters, good luck squeezing a definition of God of any theist. They like their gods fuzzy and abstract, high in the mountains until you climb the mountain and don't find them there, high in the sky until we learned to fly, out of the universe since then, always out of our reach but close enough to keep tags in whatever we do and pass their judgment in the afterlife.

So, we are stuck with the impossibility of prove that there is no God, but we have lots of evidence that points to that conclusion. For starters, we have a model of the universe that albeit painfully incomplete, works perfectly fine without any divine intervention. It explains that natural disasters are random in nature and not the will of a merciful, loving, just and all powerful God. It does not require a convoluted explanation of why bad things happens to good people and the other way around. It explains how and why there are that many Gods and religions without the need to explain why a particular God didn't make an effort to make itself known to people of other continents for thousands of years, dooming all its inhabitants to the hell of choice in the same way it allows newborns to die without making a conscientious choice of its belief.

In short, the reality suggest that there is no God, but thats just circumstantial evidence. We can't prove that there is no God, so the next best thing is study all claims for God; if the claim is sound and is backed with testable evidence, is the end of our atheism and then we will analyze if that God deserves to be worshiped or not (that there is a God don't automatically means that we should follow it), otherwise we simply reject the claim because is not good enough.

The problem with the "challenges" is that people don't simply state their belief in God, they claim that their beliefs are true and have evidence to back them up and some times that we must repent and believe too or be damned. All that decorated with all kind of assumptions that atheists are ignorant, hateful, amoral and all the usual bashing.

Besides, this is a open forum to discuss all kind of things and religion as a topic is as valid as any other. You have your opinion? Good for you, feel free to defend it if someone else attacks it, in the end if your faith is firm it doesn't matter right?

Originally posted by RekaG:

Everything I know, that can prove God's existence and everything coherent that in scripture that prove God's love, they question. So I'd rather peacfully express my opinion without flammer, everybody is entitled to their opinion even if it sounds like "BS".

Why not? Your scripture is everything but coherent, and is far easier to make the case for a cruel and vengeful God than for a loving and caring one. You are expressing your opinion and we are expressing ours, if you think we are wrong simply point to the parts of our argument that are wrong and we either rectify or explain why you are wrong there.

Originally posted by RekaG:

I've got a question?

I like this thread title a lot: Not only is it short and to the point but it admits of an equally short and easy reply.

@RekaG: No, you don't.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Everything I know, that can prove God's existence and everything coherent that in scripture that prove God's love, they question.

Well, if it actually proves your god where is the problem? Show us the proof and get it over with.

Originally posted by RekaG:

So I'd rather peacfully express my opinion without flammer, everybody is entitled to their opinion even if it sounds like "BS".

Where exactly did I say that you or anyone else isn't entitled to their opinions, to express them etc.?

Originally posted by RekaG:

@McCallen that was for you.

Now you're insulting me

*scratches head* Dude, than why do it. I'm not offended but surely there are people that have been. What you do kind of is a insult to the intelligence of you and the person you challenge.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Everything I know, that can prove God's existence and everything coherent that in scripture that prove God's love, they question.

Well, if it actually proves your god where is the problem? Show us the proof and get it over with.

Originally posted by RekaG:

So I'd rather peacfully express my opinion without flammer, everybody is entitled to their opinion even if it sounds like "BS".

Where exactly did I say that you or anyone else isn't entitled to their opinions, to express them etc.?

Originally posted by RekaG:

@McCallen that was for you.

Now you're insulting me

*scratches head* Dude, than why do it.

Error: does not parse.
How about actually responding to the stuff you quote? If what you have to say has nothing to do with it, why quote it in the first place?

Originally posted by RekaG:

I'm not offended but surely there are people that have been.

Your previous posts sounded quite a bit different. Care to make up your mind?
Besides, the only person who comes close to not offending anyone is one that doesn't communicate, and there are people who would find even that offensive. Sure, I offend people. So do you. So does everyone else. Your point is ... ?

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

There's a group of posters who challenge any believer in God to prove his/her beliefs, while they hold themselves immune to having to prove that their belief that there is no God holds any water.

1230703146472.jpg

Originally posted by parkerjm:

Originally posted by mjmsprt40:

There's a group of posters who challenge any believer in God to prove his/her beliefs, while they hold themselves immune to having to prove that their belief that there is no God holds any water.

1230703146472.jpg

I fixed that for you

People can't be too lazy to click links these days, can they?

Originally posted by parkerjm:

People can't be too lazy to click links these days, can they?

You're a hopeless idealist.

There is always

Originally posted by RekaG:

I've never asked anybody to prove their beliefs viable, why do people feel the need to prove me wrong?

I have answer to you for that question, 'people feel the need to prove you wrong' it's depend on a subject that you discussed with other people's and also depend on a UNIVERSAL TRUTH.

There are a few universal truths, like "everyone has their own truth", but there is also "everybody lies". Confusing, huh?......The Bible actually says, "don't lean on your own understanding", A lot of us need to learn that.→me too← -_-'

Originally posted by RekaG:

There are a few universal truths, like "everyone has their own truth", but there is also "everybody lies". Confusing, huh?......

I'm always lying

Originally posted by RekaG:

The Bible actually says, "don't lean on your own understanding"

Yes, but it also says that non-believers should be put to death, so perhaps you should take what it says with a grain of salt.

Romans 1:29-32 (KJV)
"Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

The problem is that you interpret disagreement as an attempt to silence and offend you. On the contrary, it's the norm in an open civilised discussion to be asked to support what you are claiming. With religion especially, but also some other similar nonsense, it seems that people are unwilling to discuss thing openly. We should be required to treat your beliefs with kid gloves, so as not to offend you? I'm sorry, but no. Your religion is nonsensical to me, your mythology even more so, and your apologists are just plain irritating.

These are conclusions, not insults.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

The Bible actually says, "don't lean on your own understanding"

Yes, but it also says that non-believers should be put to death, so perhaps you should take what it says with a grain of salt.

Romans 1:29-32 (KJV)
"Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

The Bible also says repent and your sins would be washed away.

My experience is:
take note this is not an experiment that could be scientifically proven~only Prophesy and God followers could relate to this~
i went to a Medical Doctor one day when i lost so much wait that He and his receptionist said i'm hiv+ or suffering from TB,believe me i did not take the medication which they were suggesting, next day i came across the God's Prophet in our area who said those were bad Spirits~She gave me advice~within three weeks i was fully recovered,and another scenario~i needed to prove to my coleague that flu does not need vaccination"medication" then
i went to a Professional nurse for flu medication wich i gave to my coleague and i told the nurse i dont drink any western medication"of which she also said a person cant live without medication,
i can say God made natural herbs&food for people to heal themselves,and God will give path for people to walk,where HE prove HIS existance to people but
other people wont"or unable" to except HE live within us.

I can say GOD creates and people destroy.

Originally posted by RekaG:

The Bible also says repent and your sins would be washed away.

So does the Qur'an, Torah, the Morman Bible, etc.
You point?

Your Bible says many things.
For example, (my favourite by far) in the 10 Commandments, Yahweh says "Thou shalt not kill". This is supremely ironic in the fact that Yahweh, with his smiting arse, kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). Yahweh also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, he orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, Yahweh told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has Yahweh killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, Yahweh orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!

Yahweh also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).

And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear: "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

Originally posted by Redem:

These are conclusions, not insults.

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Billymish:

My experience is:

take note this is not an experiment that could be scientifically proven~only Prophesy and God followers could relate to this~

Then why bother? Anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Originally posted by Billymish:

i went to a Medical Doctor one day when i lost so much wait that He and his receptionist said i'm hiv+ or suffering from TB,believe me i did not take the medication which they were suggesting

He or the receptionist didn't know? Sounds like they never got the opportunity to perform a blood test. Immediately, this anecdote is horribly skewed.

Originally posted by Billymish:

next day i came across the God's Prophet in our area who said those were bad Spirits~She gave me advice~within three weeks i was fully recovered,

So there is a high probability that all you had was a cold. Evil spirits? Nonsense. Pure, utter medieval nonsense.

Originally posted by Billymish:

and another scenario~i needed to prove to my coleague that flu does not need vaccination"medication" then
i went to a Professional nurse for flu medication wich i gave to my coleague and i told the nurse i dont drink any western medication"of which she also said a person cant live without medication,

He/She was wrong, but considering your testimony, I suspect you're twisting his/her words. It is statistically unlikely for you to live beyond 50 without the intervention of modern medicine. I only have to point to the average lifespans to support this. Your anti-vac stance is both deeply irrational and dangerous to children.

Originally posted by Billymish:

i can say God made natural herbs&food for people to heal themselves,and God will give path for people to walk,where HE prove HIS existance to people but other people wont"or unable" to except HE live within us.

I can say GOD creates and people destroy.

Evolution paints an entirely different picture. It shows how we evolved to utilise the food sources around us. It refutes the notion that we are designed, that anything in nature is designed explicitly for us. Your religious view is not supported by the evidence.

And for your last point, you have to ignore the Flood, don't you? Think about it.

Kind of funny, if you read through The Bible, it actually tells you the root of some of the major religions. The guy who created the muslim religion is mentioned, I think he was the offspring of a prophet and servant?

Most of the religions were created by people who strayed from God, the offspring of the astrayed, offspring of servants that worked for God's people or people who just heard bits and pieces of God's word. Christianity did exist in The Old Testament, it was just called God?

Originally posted by RekaG:

Kind of funny, if you read through The Bible, it actually tells you the root of some of the major religions. The guy who created the muslim religion is mentioned, I think he was the offspring of a prophet and servant?

Do share.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Most of the religions were created by people who strayed from God, the offspring of the astrayed, offspring of servants that worked for God's people or people who just heard bits and pieces of God's word. Christianity did exist in The Old Testament, it was just called God?

What about the people who "strayed" from your god before said god existed?

Originally posted by Frenzie:

What about the people who strayed from your god before they existed?

Shouldn't that be more like:
<i>What about the people that strayed <b>to</b> your god before it/he/she existed... from god XYZ</i>

No other god before me...yadda yadda.

I meant they in reference to the god, not to the people. A little unclear on my end there.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

The Bible actually says, "don't lean on your own understanding"

Yes, but it also says that non-believers should be put to death, so perhaps you should take what it says with a grain of salt.

Romans 1:29-32 (KJV)
"Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

The Bible also says repent and your sins would be washed away.

In other words, do what the priest says that the bible says or grumpy old yahweh will drag you into his party dungeon and go medieval bronze age on you for an eternity or two?

Originally posted by Macallan:

In other words, do what the priest says that the bible says or grumpy old yahweh will drag you into his party dungeon and go medieval bronze age on you for an eternity or two?

You're insulting the bronze age.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Kind of funny, if you read through The Bible, it actually tells you the root of some of the major religions. The guy who created the muslim religion is mentioned, I think he was the offspring of a prophet and servant?

And which book would that be? I don't remember any Muhammad anywhere in the bible. Neither is there a Buddha, Lao Tse, Konfucius or any other religious founder that's not jewish or christian.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Most of the religions were created by people who strayed from God, the offspring of the astrayed, offspring of servants that worked for God's people or people who just heard bits and pieces of God's word.

According to the old testament this happened to the israelites over and over again. Can't blame them for looking for a less psychotic god.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Christianity did exist in The Old Testament, it was just called God?

Absolutely not. If you actually check the parts that talk about the messiah you'll see that Jesus doesn't even begin to fit the bill and that whoever wrote Matthew's gospel was either illiterate or a liar ( Check his claimed 'prophecies'. Seriously. ) The messiah is supposed to come out of nowhere with an army, kick out whatever foreign power occupies Israel at that time and restore David's kingdom.
Jesus didn't come out of nowhere, didn't bring an army, didn't kick the romans out and certainly didn't restore any sort of jewish kingdom.
Judas Maccabeus, Simon bar Kokhba, Theodor Herzl, David Ben-Gurion etc. all are much better matches as they all, with varying degrees of success, worked towards re-establishing Israel as an independent state.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

In other words, do what the priest says that the bible says or grumpy old yahweh will drag you into his party dungeon and go medieval bronze age on you for an eternity or two?

You're insulting the bronze age.

/me goes to sacrifice a lamb to calm Zeus and the gang down

Originally posted by Macallan:

/me goes to sacrifice a lamb to calm Zeus and the gang down

What a shtick! Zeus is a vegetarian. He'll smite you for murdering that poor, innocent lamb.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

/me goes to sacrifice a lamb to calm Zeus and the gang down

What a shtick! Zeus is a vegetarian. He'll smite you for murdering that poor, innocent lamb.

Last time I checked he wasn't. It's been a while though

Get with the times, man.
</Chong>

Alright, I'll burn some weed instead

Originally posted by Macallan:

Alright, I'll burn some weed instead

I kinda thought you were already into that shxxt. A little early..

Originally posted by Frenzie:

What a shtick! Zeus is a vegetarian. He'll smite you for murdering that poor, innocent lamb.

so they eat whatever you sacrifice? hmmm ...

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

What a shtick! Zeus is a vegetarian. He'll smite you for murdering that poor, innocent lamb.

so they eat whatever you sacrifice? hmmm ...

They hate waste.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Kind of funny, if you read through The Bible, it actually tells you the root of some of the major religions.

Right, it tells about Abraham, the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Originally posted by RekaG:

The guy who created the muslim religion is mentioned, I think he was the offspring of a prophet and servant?

Muhammad is mentioned in the bible? What interpretation do you adhere to?

Originally posted by RekaG:

Most of the religions were created by people who strayed from God, the offspring of the astrayed, offspring of servants that worked for God's people or people who just heard bits and pieces of God's word.

With the exception of your incorrect usage of the term "God" (Yahweh), the same could be said for Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Christianity did exist in The Old Testament, it was just called God?

I am rather getting tired of repeating myself. Firstly, no (and for the umpteenth hundred time) the Jews worshipped Yahweh whom they called Elohim or Yahweh. Judaism is the base for Christianity. As I made quite clear, you cannot simply set aside the Old Testament because Jesus the hippie said for you lot not to:

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear: "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

What a shtick! Zeus is a vegetarian. He'll smite you for murdering that poor, innocent lamb.

so they eat whatever you sacrifice? hmmm ...

Actually the priests do in most cases.

Its there, Muhammad is actually in The Bible, Old Testament to be exact....I'm still trying to remember, I'm not sure but it might be the story of Abraham & Sarah?

In some translations it might be edited out?......But I do have a link that proves muslims don't worship the same God....I might post it in that thread.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Its there, Muhammad is actually in The Bible, Old Testament to be exact....I'm still trying to remember, I'm not sure but it might be the story of Abraham & Sarah?

Nope, you are thinking of a Prophet of Islam, but not the main Prophet who is Muhammad. You are thinking of Ismael.

Originally posted by RekaG:

In some translations it might be edited out?......

Doubtful, but possible.

Originally posted by RekaG:

But I do have a link that proves muslims don't worship the same God....I might post it in that thread.

By all means, do feel free to post it then.

Originally posted by RekaG:

Its there, Muhammad is actually in The Bible, Old Testament to be exact....I'm still trying to remember, I'm not sure but it might be the story of Abraham & Sarah?

Care to elaborate?

Originally posted by RekaG:

In some translations it might be edited out?......

I doubt it. Since the bible was finished centuries before Muhammad was born that would be some actual prophecy - they'd flaunt it all over the damn place instead of hiding it.

Originally posted by RekaG:

But I do have a link that proves muslims don't worship the same God....I might post it in that thread.

Let me guess, it's that tired old rubbish about that moon god with 'allah' in its name? Which makes perfect sense since 'allah' simply means 'god' and is used by arabic speaking christians as well?
If that's the case don't bother, it's ridiculously easy to refute and there's at least one old thread about it.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Its there, Muhammad is actually in The Bible, Old Testament to be exact....I'm still trying to remember, I'm not sure but it might be the story of Abraham & Sarah?

Care to elaborate?

Originally posted by RekaG:

In some translations it might be edited out?......

I doubt it. Since the bible was finished centuries before Muhammad was born that would be some actual prophecy - they'd flaunt it all over the damn place instead of hiding it.

Originally posted by RekaG:

But I do have a link that proves muslims don't worship the same God....I might post it in that thread.

Let me guess, it's that tired old rubbish about that moon god with 'allah' in its name? Which makes perfect sense since 'allah' simply means 'god' and is used by arabic speaking christians as well?
If that's the case don't bother, it's ridiculously easy to refute and there's at least one old thread about it.

My mind does this to me....I was corrected, evidently he wasn't but supposedly what Sarah did led to the creation of the muslim religion?

How? Does Muhammad claim a direct lineage to her or something?

Originally posted by RekaG:

but supposedly what Sarah did led to the creation of the muslim religion?

butterfly effect?

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

Originally posted by RekaG:

but supposedly what Sarah did led to the creation of the muslim religion?

butterfly effect?

Does Muhammad also have a relation to Ashton Kutcher?

somehow, deep inside me, i knew someone would come up with that

Mila Kunis was only 14 while she played his girlfriend, so that's kind of like Muhammad as well.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

How? Does Muhammad claim a direct lineage to her or something?

No, in the story of Abraham & Sarah, Sarah get impatiant and gives her maidservent to Abraham to have her child.

Originally posted by NoobSaibot:

somehow, deep inside me, i knew someone would come up with that

Huh!.....Do you mean..Muhammad.

I remember it from somewhere, but if a person mentioned it to me..They didn't explain it?

I did some research on google, I did something that made sense but I don't know how correct it is.

Originally posted by RekaG:

but supposedly what Sarah did led to the creation of the muslim religion?

You mean letting the patriarch of the "Big 3" religions have a little "slap and tickle" with his servant?
Since you adhere to the bible, read this:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2016&version=NIV

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

How? Does Muhammad claim a direct lineage to her or something?

No, in the story of Abraham & Sarah, Sarah get impatiant and gives her maidservent to Abraham to have her child.

You mean the Ishmael story, muslims consider him a prophet and ancestor of all arab people.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

How? Does Muhammad claim a direct lineage to her or something?

No, in the story of Abraham & Sarah, Sarah get impatiant and gives her maidservent to Abraham to have her child.

You mean the Ishmael story, muslims consider him a prophet and ancestor of all arab people.

I never read the Ishmael story past the first few pages.
You do mean "Moby Dick", don't you?

Originally posted by OnetimePoster:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

How? Does Muhammad claim a direct lineage to her or something?

No, in the story of Abraham & Sarah, Sarah get impatiant and gives her maidservent to Abraham to have her child.

You mean the Ishmael story, muslims consider him a prophet and ancestor of all arab people.

I never read the Ishmael story past the first few pages.
You do mean "Moby Dick", don't you?

There are quite a few dicks in that book, not sure about Moby though

Originally posted by RekaG:

Huh!.....Do you mean..Muhammad.

no, i was responding to Frenzie

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

How? Does Muhammad claim a direct lineage to her or something?

No, in the story of Abraham & Sarah, Sarah get impatiant and gives her maidservent to Abraham to have her child.

You mean the Ishmael story, muslims consider him a prophet and ancestor of all arab people.

So is there any genetic truth to that or is it like the British claims to being descendants of some who fled Troy?

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by RekaG:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

How? Does Muhammad claim a direct lineage to her or something?

No, in the story of Abraham & Sarah, Sarah get impatiant and gives her maidservent to Abraham to have her child.

You mean the Ishmael story, muslims consider him a prophet and ancestor of all arab people.

So is there any genetic truth to that or is it like the British claims to being descendants of some who fled Troy?

And here I thought the brits were the lost tribes of Israel
Yeah, I suspect it's in that category

Originally posted by Macallan:

So is there any genetic truth to that or is it like the British claims to being descendants of some who fled Troy?

Originally posted by Macallan:

Yeah, I suspect it's in that category

I concur.

Originally posted by Macallan:

And here I thought the brits were the lost tribes of Israel

Yeah, I suspect it's in that category

I guess it depends on who they thought was more awesome at the time.