Is religious indoctrination child abuse?

Is religious indoctrination child abuse?

Opinions please.

Originally posted by grysmn:

Beltrager has this one right. Education should not be involved in cultural conditioning. All that should be said is that there are many cultures, politics, religions/non religions and lifestyles. Everyone has a right to choose their lifestyle, politics, religion/non religion and acculturation. Anything more said at a grade school level is indoctrination.

We are on same page unfortunately I believe we are in a minority. Some may pay lip service but that is about it.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

What is this thread about, again?

Quantum Physics.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by Jaybro:

What is this thread about, again?

Quantum Physics.

maybe we should discuss it we could use some derailment

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

And post whore has 1700 posts.....people complain about me being a troll and answer a thread like this. Supposedly educated people also........

I hope all the tried and true a voted......

heres some
this will be the last time i give you one

so this one

Well I would like to continue this but my ip gets blocked all the time.. go figure. I can use a proxy,that is only way I know not being a computer guy

What the hell now it is working..

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by Jaybro:

What is this thread about, again?

Quantum Physics.

Does that require quantum Ex-lax?

BTW, Ex-lax is outstanding for bad colds. Eat an entire box...you'll be too afraid to cough.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Does that require quantum Ex-lax?

That is for the user/non-user to decide.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

BTW, Ex-lax is outstanding for bad colds. Eat an entire box...you'll be too afraid to cough.

I'll not ask how you learned that.

For pure joy and perverse edification I used to shit my pants.

Now I just read ClassicDenny's posts.

Originally posted by parkerjm:

I personally am an atheist, but I think it is absurd to teach kids about god one way or the other until they are old enough to actually understand the concept and repercussions of the idea of god. I think at around 12 I'd like to introduce any kid I have to several different religions and atheism and allow them to make their own decisions.

On the same note though, I don't know if it's right to shield children from religion when they are a child... if they wanted to go to church with a friend, I don't see a problem with that. I wouldn't really even care if my child was a Christian or Muslim or Hindu as long as they came to that conclusion with a sound and mature mind.

Does anyone really believe that a kid can understand what god is and what god's existence means at the age of 5?

+1

BUT, sometimes a religion can help a kid understand the difference between right or wrong. It's a toughy, but kids shouldn't be taught religion in anything more than an abstract notion until they're old enough to make decisions

ok ok ok

*AHEM* letting a child think for thier own is a very tough decision. Let a lone very very scary. We are intimidated by the outside world soo much we ten to let society think for us on whats right and wrong for our kids. then the things people like the schools or daycares that dont make sense goes and tells you what YOU are doing wrong, well it makes matters worse. FFS let the child be innocent until they open theyre eyes dont have anyone do it for you.

Originally posted by MConor:

It's a toughy, but kids shouldn't be taught religion in anything more than an abstract notion until they're old enough to make decisions

Man you are flipping nuts. They are learning too much from TV, movies and parents who can't even spell the word.. Half only see dad on weekends if they know who he even is. I recon about 10 % are even going to have a chance at a decent life let alone a moral one no matter who is the teacher.
And you worry about religious indoctrination in the western world. I don't even worry about it in the rest of the world if a few people would wake up and understand who is using it for their own selfish interests.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

They are learning too much from TV, movies and parents who can't even spell the word..

yes good one.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Half only see dad on weekends if they know who he even is. I recon about 10 % are even going to have a chance at a decent life let alone a moral one no matter who is the teacher.

i was raised by my dad ive seen more single dad raise kids, where are your stats coming from?

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

And you worry about religious indoctrination in the western world.

some of have a right to.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

I don't even worry about it in the rest of the world if a few people would wake up and understand who is using it for their own selfish interests." class="smilie" width="27" height="17">

im sorry you feel this way but please before you make any more rash comment read my post above yours.

Originally posted by Virusboy:

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

They are learning too much from TV, movies and parents who can't even spell the word..

yes good one.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Half only see dad on weekends if they know who he even is. I recon about 10 % are even going to have a chance at a decent life let alone a moral one no matter who is the teacher.

i was raised by my dad ive seen more single dad raise kids, where are your stats coming from?

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

And you worry about religious indoctrination in the western world.

some of have a right to.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

I don't even worry about it in the rest of the world if a few people would wake up and understand who is using it for their own selfish interests." class="smilie" width="27" height="17">

im sorry you feel this way but please before you make any more rash comment read my post above yours.

My stats are related to crime and causes. What you have seen is not a stat only a opinion. That is fine but I also have mine.

As for indoctrination in Western world,...I guess who has to worry????

I just read you post again and I didn't see anything related to what I said??? You setting around the campfire drinking home made again.

Hello, peace and safety...

Even if you don't teach your child any religious, ideological or moral doctrine, then the educational system as well as the media and the friend circles will inculcate in your child certain religious and moral ideas no matter how much each of these millieux pretend not to be doing so. After all, life, whether the earliest or later life, is about this acquisition of ideas and beliefs from the social environment...

So, in any case, no matter what you do, your child will be 'brainwashed (!)' and 'mentally, conceptually abused (!)', provided that these are the terms by which you describe the acquisition by young individuals of religious, moral and intellectual beliefs and ideas...

All in all, It's much better if children are ideologically taught or "brainwashed" by their own parents rather than by the State machine or the corporate media or the random friend circles that your child will find himself within.

Don't worry, especially if you tell your child also about the need for being a rational and intellectually honest individual, the child will learn to compare the plethora of different ideas, beliefs and doctrines that he will most certainly encounter all through his life.

Best regards...

Originally posted by ugurdinc1403:

So, in any case, no matter what you do, your child will be 'brainwashed (!)' and 'mentally, conceptually abused (!)', provided that these are the terms by which you describe the acquisition by young individuals of religious, moral and intellectual beliefs and ideas...

hmmm very interesting read indeed
welcome to D&D my good sir. and what a marvelous first post as well. but i must one thing to the above quick quote....
children have a higher will factor, this being experienced as an uncle proves such. but at the same time they learn just about everything in the real world. then comes the preteen years of factoring out that "brainwashed" idea of socialism that WE MUST RUN ON. those are the most important years in a childs life where they make the decisions on theyre own and must face society's consequences. thats not indoctrination. its the law of the land.

I have really enjoyed reading through this post, very interesting. I have a few observations/opinions that I would like to voice. First, if you are a religious person, your religion dictates that you bring your child to church. If you are a devout Christian, then you believe it is your duty to bring your child to church. Under these circumstances you would have to consider yourself an unfit parent if you didn't bring the kids to church. And believing that you are doing the right thing, you are not going to step back and tell your child why your religion might be wrong, or that other religions might be just as valid, or that maybe no religion has it right. It's just not going to happen. Not if you truly believe in your religion. Second, as much as I have enjoyed this thread, in the long run it just doesn't matter^[1] , parents will do what they believe is right, and no authority (in the U.S.) will contradict that. And third, if you wanted to convince someone that your side of the argument was the correct side to be on, you would be out of luck. Most people wouldn't know what many of the words in this thread mean, much less be able to follow the abstract ideas presented. And fourth, I like coleslaw^[2].

1. Bill Murray - Meatballs (1979)
2. Emo Phillips

Originally posted by mwm242:

I have really enjoyed reading through this post, very interesting. I have a few observations/opinions that I would like to voice. First, if you are a religious person, your religion dictates that you bring your child to church. If you are a devout Christian, then you believe it is your duty to bring your child to church. Under these circumstances you would have to consider yourself an unfit parent if you didn't bring the kids to church. And believing that you are doing the right thing, you are not going to step back and tell your child why your religion might be wrong, or that other religions might be just as valid, or that maybe no religion has it right. It's just not going to happen. Not if you truly believe in your religion. Second, as much as I have enjoyed this thread, in the long run it just doesn't matter^[1] , parents will do what they believe is right, and no authority (in the U.S.) will contradict that. And third, if you wanted to convince someone that your side of the argument was the correct side to be on, you would be out of luck. Most people wouldn't know what many of the words in this thread mean, much less be able to follow the abstract ideas presented. And fourth, I like coleslaw^[2].

1. Bill Murray - Meatballs (1979)
2. Emo Phillips

Finally, some sense I also like coleslaw

In the true sense of the word 'indoctrination', no, religious indoctrination is not child abuse. It is giving your child some sort of a foundation in spirituality. Once my children reached 16 years of age I let them decide if they wanted to attend Mass or not. I was a lapsed Roman Catholic for many years and it seemed hypocritical to force them to attend Mass if they really did not want to attend.

Originally posted by r4335ny:

In the true sense of the word 'indoctrination', no, religious indoctrination is not child abuse. It is giving your child some sort of a foundation in spirituality.

Like a house built on shifting sands?

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

Originally posted by r4335ny:

In the true sense of the word 'indoctrination', no, religious indoctrination is not child abuse. It is giving your child some sort of a foundation in spirituality.

Like a house built on shifting sands?

I'm not sure I understand the metaphor. In my mind it is a parents obligation to provide a foundation in some form of spirituality. As the child matures he or she should be allowed to make an informed decision on the complex topic of religion.

( Please note I live on the coast, three miles offshore on a barrier island. My house is built on shifting sand. ;) )

Originally posted by r4335ny:

I'm not sure I understand the metaphor

He is talking about Catholics......

There's a difference between a foundation in spirituality and a foundation of spirituality. Do you mean that it's important that a parent should provide a spiritual foundation as the basis for a moral and social education, or as the basis for more spirituality?

If the former, do you believe that spirituality is a necessary and sufficient basis for a moral and social education?

And will any spirituality do?

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Originally posted by r4335ny:

I'm not sure I understand the metaphor

He is talking about Catholics......

What about Catholics? ( lets be cognizant forum rules. )

Originally posted by r4335ny:

What about Catholics? ( lets be cognizant forum rules. )

Don't take all of denny's misinformation too seriously.

Forum rules? What does that mean?

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Originally posted by r4335ny:

What about Catholics? ( lets be cognizant forum rules. )

Don't take all of denny's misinformation too seriously.

I don't. But, please respect the person, criticize the statement or position.

Forum rules? What does that mean?

As a Roman Catholic I believe the RC Church has been treated in a disrespectful manner by the main stream media. Many people of different faiths, in my opinion, mistakenly believe that pedophilia does not occur within other faiths of 'houses of worship'. I will admit I do not support the way in which some priests handled this situation and firmly believe convicted offenders should be imprisoned and excommunicated.

Originally posted by r4335ny:

As a Roman Catholic I believe the RC Church has been treated in a disrespectful manner by the main stream media. Many people of different faiths, in my opinion, mistakenly believe that pedophilia does not occur within other faiths of 'houses of worship'. I will admit I do not support the way in which some priests handled this situation and firmly believe convicted offenders should be imprisoned and excommunicated.

Just wasting your time.

Originally posted by r4335ny:

What about Catholics? ( lets be cognizant forum rules. )

Complete mistake. I am also a RC. I meant to say protestants, sorry about that. I am qualified to say that as i am a convert. Not a bad guy when you get to know me..

I did give Jaybro a crack at me though.

Originally posted by r4335ny:

As a Roman Catholic I believe the RC Church has been treated in a disrespectful manner by the main stream media. Many people of different faiths, in my opinion, mistakenly believe that pedophilia does not occur within other faiths of 'houses of worship'. I will admit I do not support the way in which some priests handled this situation and firmly believe convicted offenders should be imprisoned and excommunicated.

I have been over and over that little item. It is as Belfrager says...waste of time. If you put blame where it belongs though you will be kicked off. That is called a hate crime to these boys.

Is indoctrination abuse? Maybe.

Physical actions are more surely abuse: physical alteration. You know, surgery done to infants. That is abuse.

Telling them that (or, say, indoctrinating them to the ideal that) you should physically abuse your children that way... is that abuse? or incitement of abuse? or something else?

Originally posted by r4335ny:

As a Roman Catholic I believe the RC Church has been treated in a disrespectful manner by the main stream media.

How so?
I think it a heinous crime that old Ratty didn't let the offending priests be punished both by secular law and by Catholic law.

Originally posted by r4335ny:

I will admit I do not support the way in which some priests handled this situation and firmly believe convicted offenders should be imprisoned and excommunicated.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

secular law

He has control of secular law?????. Does he have control of people who misstate reasons, root cause, for offenses???

The politically correct have decided it is no longer a act, condition?..

You people can only blame pope for so long.... Protestants engage in pedophilia more often than Catholics....This is a fact. regardless of ypou ability to comprehend facts.. Tell us learned one what is root cause..Religion?????

Is there also the categorical aiding and abetting in most Protestant churches? Besides, does saying "someone else is as bad or even worse" make anything any better?

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

secular law

He has control of secular law?????. Does he have control of people who misstate reasons, root cause, for offenses???

The politically correct have decided it is no longer a act, condition?..

This is incomprehensible gibberish. Care to repeat it in english?

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

You people can only blame pope for so long....

Actually we can blame him as long as we want and there is nothing you can do about it.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Protestants engage in pedophilia more often than Catholics....

Did they ignore, downplay and hide the problem for decades too? Did they keep moving known pedophiles around instead of handing them over to the authorities? Did they try to shut up the victims?
And how exactly do misdeeds by protestants justify those done by catholic church officials?

Originally posted by Macallan:

Did they ignore, downplay and hide the problem for decades too? Did they keep moving known pedophiles around instead of handing them over to the authorities? Did they try to shut up the victims?
And how exactly do misdeeds by protestants justify those done by catholic church officials?

Has nothing to do with my statement

Do you make it a point to not answer a question but just make simple utterances to evade.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Did they ignore, downplay and hide the problem for decades too? Did they keep moving known pedophiles around instead of handing them over to the authorities? Did they try to shut up the victims?
And how exactly do misdeeds by protestants justify those done by catholic church officials?

Has nothing to do with my statement

Did you not read it or did you just not comprehend it?

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Do you make it a point to not answer a question but just make simple utterances to evade.

You didn't ask me any questions so this makes about as much sense as most of your posts - none whatsoever.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Is there also the categorical aiding and abetting in most Protestant churches? Besides, does saying "someone else is as bad or even worse" make anything any better?

In answer to your first question positively yes. In fact they are more apt to hide as proven by insurance company data. They are much harder to find out who is doing what to who.

and reflecting on your last statement No, it doesn't but I just want to point out to all the anti-Catholics that in the case of pedophiles, the protestants are bigger offenders. Not for you but for people like Macallan who seems to have a problem comprehending certain truths.....or basically repeats what someone,you, has already said.

Of course he adds his own flair or should I say trash talk.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Is there also the categorical aiding and abetting in most Protestant churches? Besides, does saying "someone else is as bad or even worse" make anything any better?

In answer to your first question positively yes. In fact they are more apt to hide as proven by insurance company data. They are much harder to find out who is doing what to who.

Got a source for that? And even if it's true how is it relevant to the crap that's been going on in the catholic church since practically forever?

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

and reflecting on your last statement No, it doesn't but I just want to point out to all the anti-Catholics that in the case of pedophiles, the protestants are bigger offenders. Not for you but for people like Macallan who seems to have a problem comprehending certain truths.....or basically repeats what someone,you, has already said.

Look bozo, I don't have a problem 'comprehending truths' - I do however have a problem believing unsupported statements from clearly and unashamedly biased sources such as you. I bet the fact that these claims only ever come from catholics is just proof for that massive anti-catholic conspiracy everywhere

Originally posted by Macallan:

Got a source for that? And even if it's true how is it relevant to the crap that's been going on in the catholic church since practically forever?

I have shown sources before.Everything I have said is the truth and if you can't comprehend the truth then pal, I would have to say that the only bozo you have seen is in your morning mirror

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Got a source for that? And even if it's true how is it relevant to the crap that's been going on in the catholic church since practically forever?

I have shown sources before.

Not exactly convincing ones as far as I remember. Oh, wait, that's the conspiracy again

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Everything I have said is the truth and if you can't comprehend the truth then pal, I would have to say that the only bozo you have seen is in your morning mirror

I'm simply not going to take your word for it, for reasons which are obvious to pretty much everyone here.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by TogaOga:

if you dont believe in God, what do you have?

Less delusional baggage. Why on earth would I bother with a hypothetical being who's supposed 'actions' are indistinguishable from random events?

Indistinguishable? You're not seeing the right events. I was raised in Christian Science, and spiritual demonstrations were a normal and common part of life. Every member of my immediate family has had spiritual healings and other demonstrations of God's goodness and power. I believe in God because He is real!

I did not join the church. Speaking of which, and getting back to the original topic...

I actually began church at 6 months, but that was in a crib. I'm not sure what age I began Sunday School, but if you didn't already know, you should know that CS is very cerebral, and the little kids ask plenty of questions in Sunday School, and are answered with full respect by the teacher. I am unable to recall how old I was when I understood about God, but it was waaaaaaay before 12. Was it 5 or 7? I just don't remember; but you must give children credit for having sharp, analytical minds. I was studying the aerodynamics of paper strips in front of an electric fan for 2 hours at a time when I was just 2 years old, and as a toddler I was disassembling the K500 telephone and reassembling it -- easy peasy! I've always used my brain, except for some teenage years, lol. So yes, as long as a child is taught by competent teachers, grokking God is easy.

CS expects you to fully use your brain. And the Baha'i Faith has as a central concept that of "independent investigation of truth" -- they don't even want you to join if you don't take that to heart.

Both CS and BF set an "age of maturity"; 12 for the former and 15 for the latter. When you reach that age you are then allowed to join if you so choose.

Neither religion has any clergy; you are expected to study the writings on your own.

Those are the only religions with which I have experience. Just lucky, I guess!

The proof of the believability of any religion is in the minds of its adherents.

Gravity doesn't work that way...you need only jump from a tall building to prove it. No prior belief required.

Why does it need to be tall?

Originally posted by Jaybro:

.you need only jump from a tall building to prove it

Not if you have brain. It is harder to fathom if it is a short building.... Well. if you are slightly compromised.

I went off bottom step. Yep, you guessed it . I fell on my head. That is why I gravitated to D&D

Originally posted by Boodlums:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by TogaOga:

if you dont believe in God, what do you have?

Less delusional baggage. Why on earth would I bother with a hypothetical being who's supposed 'actions' are indistinguishable from random events?

Indistinguishable? You're not seeing the right events. I was raised in Christian Science, and spiritual demonstrations were a normal and common part of life. Every member of my immediate family has had spiritual healings and other demonstrations of God's goodness and power. I believe in God because He is real!

No, you simply attribute anything you can't immediately explain to your god without any good reason to do so. You'd have to come up with evidence which shows that your god actually did it - good luck with that.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Why does it need to be tall?

It's more definitive. Jumping off a kroner doesn't work at all. You're all free to pick your poison.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

I went off bottom step. Yep, you guessed it . I fell on my head. That is why I gravitated to D&D.

Trust me, you're in good company.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by Boodlums:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by TogaOga:

if you dont believe in God, what do you have?

Less delusional baggage. Why on earth would I bother with a hypothetical being who's supposed 'actions' are indistinguishable from random events?

Indistinguishable? You're not seeing the right events. I was raised in Christian Science, and spiritual demonstrations were a normal and common part of life. Every member of my immediate family has had spiritual healings and other demonstrations of God's goodness and power. I believe in God because He is real!

No, you simply attribute anything you can't immediately explain to your god without any good reason to do so. You'd have to come up with evidence which shows that your god actually did it - good luck with that.

All right, theoretically it could have been another being in the SPIRIT world, but why would that be any more likely?

If you start falling off a mountain, and an invisible hand pushes you back up, whose would you say that is?

Originally posted by Boodlums:

All right, theoretically it could have been another being in the SPIRIT world, but why would that be any more likely?

Why would it be less likely?

Originally posted by Boodlums:

If you start falling off a mountain, and an invisible hand pushes you back up, whose would you say that is?

A pervert's. Though more likely a hallucination induced by landing somewhere (or just your climbing rope stopping you mid-fall) and surviving (which doesn't even need to include any real damage to your body).

Originally posted by Boodlums:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by Boodlums:

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by TogaOga:

if you dont believe in God, what do you have?

Less delusional baggage. Why on earth would I bother with a hypothetical being who's supposed 'actions' are indistinguishable from random events?

Indistinguishable? You're not seeing the right events. I was raised in Christian Science, and spiritual demonstrations were a normal and common part of life. Every member of my immediate family has had spiritual healings and other demonstrations of God's goodness and power. I believe in God because He is real!

No, you simply attribute anything you can't immediately explain to your god without any good reason to do so. You'd have to come up with evidence which shows that your god actually did it - good luck with that.

All right, theoretically it could have been another being in the SPIRIT world, but why would that be any more likely?

What about looking for actual real life explanations instead of fairytales?

Originally posted by Boodlums:

If you start falling off a mountain, and an invisible hand pushes you back up, whose would you say that is?

Where and when did such a thing actually happen?

Originally posted by Macallan:

Originally posted by Boodlums:

If you start falling off a mountain, and an invisible hand pushes you back up, whose would you say that is?

Where and when did such a thing actually happen?

I don't even recall anything like that in the Bible.

When I see prayers cause the restoration of amputated limbs then I'll believe.

Originally posted by BernG:

When I see prayers cause the restoration of amputated limbs then I'll believe.

Assuming it's not prayers combined with some future derivative of stem-cell research.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

future derivative of stem-cell research.

well we believe in that ...just not putting money into a unproven research. This takes away research from the real stuff. The US government puts money into political correct leftest research. We are way behind in that area. Personal stem cell is non copyrighted sadly and keeps private enterprise out of it also. It puts us behind.

The results of this poll seem to indicate that these forums are dominated by those who are against religion.

Originally posted by ptgauthor:

The results of this poll seem to indicate that these forums are dominated by those who are against religion.

Why, you think the results would be different if the question said "indoctrination" rather than "religious indoctrination"?

Originally posted by Boodlums:

If you start falling off a mountain, and an invisible hand pushes you back up, whose would you say that is?

And you identify invisible hands by...... The less one talks about one's invisible friends, the easier life gets. If you have children, you might work with them on such friends.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Originally posted by ptgauthor:

The results of this poll seem to indicate that these forums are dominated by those who are against religion.

Why, you think the results would be different if the question said "indoctrination" rather than "religious indoctrination"?

Yes.

If you look at choices it is obvious what it is about....Just a simpletons thread.


Perhaps PT It is more about some other agenda... I love it...reinforces my own choices.....

Five pages of dribble.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

If you look at choices it is obvious what it is about....Just a simpletons thread.

...he said, weighing in again.

Originally posted by ptgauthor:

The results of this poll seem to indicate that these forums are dominated by those who are against religion.

If to be indifferent is to be against, then I'm against.
.........................................
There are reasons to be skeptical of the social utility of religion, and religious strife is chief among them. Recent events in Nigeria are among them.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303828304575179860046874350.html
How many people have been brought to justice for this recent massacre or for any of the other sectarian clashes going back to 1999 with over 13,000 dead? The sad answer is none.
A wave of sectarian violence over the past few weeks has made an already tense presidential succession even more precarious. In and around the northern community of Jos, the death toll from Muslim-Christian clashes has topped 500. The scene is grim, with stories of women and children being hacked down with machetes.

The nation of Pakistan was created in an effort to do away with Muslim/Hindu strife, and the rift led to somewhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000 deaths and mass migrations.

In recent Western history, religion hasn't furthered peace, either. Korea, Vietnam, and the Middle East serve to highlight that reality for the U.S. While religion can't be said to have exacerbated our relations with the rest of the world, it certainly hasn't been helpful.

"Abusiveness" can be a result of indoctrination, but it isn't necessarily determinative. Secularism is on the march.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

...he said, weighing in again.

spilled my coffee again

Originally posted by Jaybro:

"Abusiveness" can be a result of indoctrination, but it isn't necessarily determinative. Secularism is on the march.

DNC

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

DNC

Not surprised.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Not surprised

Nor me.

I wonder how the poll results would changed if the question were phrased, "Is teaching your children right from wrong child abuse?"

The poll results will change, because you've changed the question considerably.

Originally posted by ptgauthor:

I wonder how the poll results would changed if the question were phrased, "Is teaching your children right from wrong child abuse?"

Since when is religious indoctrination the same as teaching them right from wrong?

No its not.

Originally posted by ptgauthor:

I wonder how the poll results would changed if the question were phrased, "Is teaching your children right from wrong child abuse?"

I wonder how the poll results would change if the question were phrased, "Is teaching your children of the existence of Santa Claus child abuse?"

Originally posted by ptgauthor:

I wonder how the poll results would changed if the question were phrased, "Is teaching your children right from wrong child abuse?"

Or, Does your brother wear knickers?

Is having a brother child abuse?

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Originally posted by ptgauthor:

I wonder how the poll results would changed if the question were phrased, "Is teaching your children right from wrong child abuse?"

Or, Does your brother wear knickers?

Does he have them in a twist?

Is the world wrong?

Originally posted by ptgauthor:

I wonder how the poll results would changed if the question were phrased, "Is teaching your children right from wrong child abuse?"

:rofl: So now Christianity has the trademark on right and wrong eh?
The arrogance with which religion celebrates such utter falsehoods is always amusing.

Have a look at the true hippy-half of YHWH's "other half".:
http://www.westarinstitute.org/Polebridge/Excerpts/thomas.html

Originally posted by Gospel of Thomas, Chapter 1:14 and 16 and 26:

(14)Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will bring sin upon yourselves, 2and if you pray, you will be condemned, 3 and if you give to charity, you will harm your spirits.
(16) Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. 2They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. 3 For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, 4and they will stand alone."
(26) Jesus said, "You see the sliver in your friend's eye, but you don't see the timber in your own eye. 2When you take the timber out of your own eye, then you will see well enough to remove the sliver from your friend's eye.

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Is having a brother child abuse?

Is halving a brother child abuse?
Probably, yes.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

Is halving a brother child abuse?

It all depends on how old the brother was when you halved him.

Originally posted by johnnysaucepn:

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Is having a brother child abuse?

Is halving a brother child abuse?
Probably, yes.

Is it your brother?

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

(16) Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. 2They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.

Smart Man ! Looks as though things are going as planned.

Originally posted by MAXXTHRUST:

Smart Man ! Looks as though things are going as planned.

Do enlighten me on WTF your talking about.

Originally posted by MAXXTHRUST:

Smart Man ! Looks as though things are going as planned.

Originally posted by Macallan:

Is it your brother?

Which half?

YES IT FUCKING IS, AND I'M GLAD I'M OUT OF THIS STUPID SHIT WHEN I'M 10
Religion is basiclly brainwash, when a child is born he started of curious, ready to learn, so he ask a lot of qustion, liek why can a bird fly and...... I'm getting tired of posting things like this, because I posted the same topis like a thousand times on different sites -.-

A child ask why can a bird fly, then you answer because it have wings and laugh, what answer is that? Then the child grow up into thinking that, and when you say the plane can fly the child will be like 'IT CAN FLY BECAUSE IT HAVE WINGS'. I'll only post one example because I'm a bit tired of posting the same thing everytime. So you brainwashed into making the child think when a thing have wings it can fly, same concept as religion, the child is not old enough to think for himself, and what do you do?

I'm a bit angry at my past life... not past life but when I was little, how I could get more intelligent, but religion got in the way. So it is child abuse, you should like let the child think whatever he wants, he DON'T need guides, that's the most stupid excuse I eevr heard. It don't need anything to start of, let him think whatever he wants even if it's murder, the reward is HUGE, he'll learn a lot if some of you just piss of and stop brainwashing them.

Originally posted by Alpha1029:

YES IT FUCKING IS, AND I'M GLAD I'M OUT OF THIS STUPID SHIT WHEN I'M 10
Religion is basiclly brainwash, when a child is born he started of curious, ready to learn, so he ask a lot of qustion, liek why can a bird fly and...... I'm getting tired of posting things like this, because I posted the same topis like a thousand times on different sites -.-

A child ask why can a bird fly, then you answer because it have wings and laugh, what answer is that? Then the child grow up into thinking that, and when you say the plane can fly the child will be like 'IT CAN FLY BECAUSE IT HAVE WINGS'. I'll only post one example because I'm a bit tired of posting the same thing everytime. So you brainwashed into making the child think when a thing have wings it can fly, same concept as religion, the child is not old enough to think for himself, and what do you do?

I'm a bit angry at my past life... not past life but when I was little, how I could get more intelligent, but religion got in the way. So it is child abuse, you should like let the child think whatever he wants, he DON'T need guides, that's the most stupid excuse I eevr heard. It don't need anything to start of, let him think whatever he wants even if it's murder, the reward is HUGE, he'll learn a lot if some of you just piss of and stop brainwashing them.

Wow, brain washed.

Originally posted by Alpha1029:

A child ask why can a bird fly, then you answer because it have wings and laugh, what answer is that? Then the child grow up into thinking that, and when you say the plane can fly the child will be like 'IT CAN FLY BECAUSE IT HAVE WINGS'. I'll only post one example because I'm a bit tired of posting the same thing everytime. So you brainwashed into making the child think when a thing have wings it can fly, same concept as religion, the child is not old enough to think for himself, and what do you do?

How would you envision the aerodynamic effects necessary for (controlled) flight without wings? Also feel free to tell us how you intend to teach your three-year-old complex mechanics.

Originally posted by Alpha1029:

I'm a bit angry at my past life... not past life but when I was little, how I could get more intelligent, but religion got in the way. So it is child abuse, you should like let the child think whatever he wants, he DON'T need guides, that's the most stupid excuse I eevr heard. It don't need anything to start of, let him think whatever he wants even if it's murder, the reward is HUGE, he'll learn a lot if some of you just piss of and stop brainwashing them.

You seem to be a bit upset with your parents.

Originally posted by Alpha1029:

So it is child abuse, you should like let the child think whatever he wants, he DON'T need guides,

wow, clearly not a parent. kids are more resilient than you think and children come up with the craziest stuff (my son used to believe in monsters should I let that continue?). to me it's important to let them choose their own way. the problem with that... you have to expose them to ALL sides. while you can take it way overboard with indoctrination and I would never let my son go through some of that crap the experiencing of religion isn't all bad. I may not agree but that could be where he finds HIS meaning. who am I to take that from him?

You have some good points, although not completely thought out, but your emotional state seems off. you seem to be looking for problems and who to blame, when in fact things are how they are and that's what makes you you. build from that and don't worry about what if, that's what we have the religious folks for.

Originally posted by ensbb3:

(my son used to believe in monsters should I let that continue?)

You should ask yourself: What Would the FSM Do?

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

You should ask yourself: What Would the FSM Do?

prolly smack me in the face (with his noodlely appendage) for that?

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

(16) Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. 2They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.

Originally posted by Virusboy:

Originally posted by MAXXTHRUST:

Smart Man ! Looks as though things are going as planned.

Do enlighten me on WTF your talking about.

Originally posted by thedawgfan:
They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.

1-Read up on some world History.
2-Pick up your local paper. A lot of Battles involving Religions.
3-Failure of the worlds banking systems.
4-Armageddon / Jihad.


Dear WTF
Not sure of the validity but there seem to be some parallels.

that's it!

*throws quotations on the ground and steps on em*

i'm done!




:clown: :clown:

Originally posted by thedawgfan:

Originally posted by ensbb3:

(my son used to believe in monsters should I let that continue?)

You should ask yourself: What Would the FSM Do?

Probably scare the S**T outta the little guy..

totally think its child abuse. why would you want to push something onto your kids that they don't have the power to try to understand yet? you may try to help them understand.. but for the most part, they will just agree with you as they look up to you. my parents a religious, well not anymore... but they never pushed it on me. they waited till i was old enough to be able to grasp it and let me make my own decision.

Originally posted by MAXXTHRUST:

(my son used to believe in monsters should I let that continue?)

yes you should let that continue...

Originally posted by ensbb3:

prolly smack me in the face (with his noodlely appendage) for that?

Maybe so, maybe not.
Who knows?

Originally posted by MAXXTHRUST:

Probably scare the S**T outta the little guy..

That is if it was His will to show himself to the little tyke.

The sister of someone I know (who shall remain nameless) was once told by their parents that thunder was the noise made by the clouds clashing together. She believed this piece of information until it came up in class, at which point she was corrected and she moved on.

Some things that you are taught as a child change easily when someone tells you otherwise. Everything from the cause of thunder, through why things fly, up to the existence of Santa Claus. The existence of God is something a bit more fundamental to a culture and worldview, and is not so easily dismissed.

Originally posted by ensbb3:

you have to expose them to ALL sides. while you can take it way overboard with indoctrination and I would never let my son go through some of that crap the experiencing of religion isn't all bad. I may not agree but that could be where he finds HIS meaning. who am I to take that from him?

You have to expose children to all sides of what? That's vague. The good and bad sides of slavery?

A child may take "meaning" from pulling the wings off flies and killing small animals. Would you take that away from him? Why, if you don't have religious beliefs, would you countenance his "experiencing of religion"? Marriages in which one partner is a believer while the other isn't poses some problems (I've been through that), but just to say that an uninformed child ought to be free to be influenced by something you don't believe is puzzling.
.........................................
I'm not going to sift through this whole thread to find out how the ideas expressed here break down by nation, but I'm going to guess that there's a watershed of shorts between the U.S. and Europe, particularly with those godless Brits! Maybe my problem is that I'm unfamiliar with the power of religion in European countries. Where do Italy and Spain and Portugal fall? Is religion functionally dead in Russia?

Originally posted by Jaybro:

You have to expose children to all sides of what? That's vague. The good and bad sides of slavery?

I think robot slaves are a fantastic idea. They're already very common...

Originally posted by Frenzie:

I think robot slaves are a fantastic idea. They're already very common...

I could get a job when I was a kid. Keeps you out of trouble among other things.. Well for most,anyway $.00.25 - $00.50 per/hr

or pick cherries at $00.02 per lb and so on and so on.

Minimum wage, what are the little tykes getting for a bag.

Hell the USMC only paid me $77.00 a month, over paid, as told me by a British Marine I ran into. He was pissed.

Some post here.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

You have to expose children to all sides of what? That's vague.

in context i thought I was talking about religious exposure. (but who knows)

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Why, if you don't have religious beliefs, would you countenance his "experiencing of religion"?

a. his mother is christian.
b. I was once.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

but just to say that an uninformed child ought to be free to be influenced by something you don't believe is puzzling.

It's hard for a believer to understand I know but I do respect peoples right to believe what they want. I have many christian friends and family, I don't think they would like me much if I was always critical of their beliefs. In fact, I will still walk in the doors of a church from time to time when invited. (it's mostly girlfriends that think they are being clever and going to convert me that ask, but I have went because I was invited by a neighbor or a community member before.) as far my son goes... when asked about god I answer the question, the only refection of my belief I add is usually "that's what some people believe" to the end.

I do not hate my parents, they are open minded, I can watch porn and they wouldn't mind.
I do whatever I want mostly, doesn't mean I will just walk into a shop and take something and run off, but if I feel something is hopeless in school I can just walk back to my boarding room, even if I'm caught I'll just give an excuse, not a made up one a truth one.
I don't think I want to argue with you peopel because you're all adults, the extremely brainwashed ones? Like thinking adult must be more experience then childrens, like math equal proofs, like porn is bad for children, the extremely narrow minded ones.
Now I call you that you an call me stupid too!
I got an IQ of 1

Originally posted by Alpha1029:

I can watch porn and they wouldn't mind.

What about 触手強姦?

I don't know what it is, but I search on the interenet and it looks like hentai haha, looks like she's being raped, tentacle rape IT'S FETISH

Originally posted by ensbb3:

when asked about god I answer the question, the only refection of my belief I add is usually "that's what some people believe" to the end.

Good enough for me. Oddly, my children never bothered to ask. Later on my son told me that he respected my hands off approach.

What's a poor non-religionist to do?

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Later on my son told me that he respected my hands off approach.

+1 to your son (in regard to both you and my parents).

Originally posted by Jaybro:

What's a poor non-religionist to do?

Originally posted by Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill:

Keep Buggering On

What do you have to do Jaybro? Just keep blethering on here. It's simple, straightforward not too taxing and seems to keep you content? Just another version of thedawgfan's answer.

Was amazed that someone in Hong Kong claims an IQ of 1. Rather surprising!

Yeah I'm a retard, might even have an IQ of 0.5...

The thing what I thought about you say 'rather suprising' is soo fucked up because when I'm from Hong Kong you expect me to be a genius, what's more, you might even expect me to be super polite and posh! I hate bitches like you, and don't you dare imagine a target for me, I don't need any targets for me, you must be thinking Hong Kong people should make the world a better place and work their dick off while you do whatever you want.

Boo!

I asked my religion teacher about this today. She met me with the answer that smart people will be able to look for answers, but sheep need to be told what to do. Not quite sure what to make of that

You should have bleated at her for not having a better response.

It is, after all, religion class, so you are the sheep.

Originally posted by MConor:

I asked my religion teacher about this today. She met me with the answer that smart people will be able to look for answers, but sheep need to be told what to do. Not quite sure what to make of that

Ah, so you need to look for answers, but without asking anyone? Sounds like her version of 'sit down and be quiet'.

Originally posted by MConor:

I asked my religion teacher about this today. She met me with the answer that smart people will be able to look for answers, but sheep need to be told what to do. Not quite sure what to make of that

Just a guess. It sounds as if she thinks you are smart enough to look for answers... not be given some crap that you may take as absolute...another words she wants you to learn, not compile information. Lot of information on this site for example, not all of which I would take to the bank... But then I am a born skeptic.

Religion class doesn't mean you're a sheep, and I don't think I'm a sheep to my R.S teacher, because I know as much as he does (that's what I think anyway, unless his a secret genius), the only thing is his more open minded, and he intends to try out religion.

Originally posted by Alpha1029:

Religion class doesn't mean you're a sheep, and I don't think I'm a sheep to my R.S teacher, because I know as much as he does that's what I think anyway, unless his a secret genius), the only thing is his more open minded, and he intends to try out religion.

The one thing I have noticed repeatedly, is that your posts are to the point and truthful from your point of view.
I find myself believing most of them.

I am truthful... SOMETIMES

Originally posted by Alpha1029:

I am truthful... SOMETIMES

In a slanted sort of way it appears.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Just a guess. It sounds as if she thinks you are smart enough to look for answers... not be given some crap that you may take as absolute...another words she wants you to learn, not compile information. Lot of information on this site for example, not all of which I would take to the bank... But then I am a born skeptic.

wow dude thats something else, i was going to say the exact same thing.
being open minded is more than just "looking for answers". its about questioning even why your here. "why am i here" "why this" "why that". Once you begin questioning your existence you begin to understand who you really are.

And not only that......Social Studies... in high schools, is the highest form of indoctrination in this country...not to change subject or anything.

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

Social Studies... in high schools, is the highest form of indoctrination in this country...

Social studies as Sociology, Ethnography and so on? In my opinion, the problem is the misrepresentation that has been made with those areas. Instead of analyzing and contributing to Man's comprehension they are supposed to serve Man's liberation...
Same goes, at Philosophy, with that joke called "Applied Ethics".
It's not just your country, it's a western thing. Sign of falling times approaching.

I'm reassessing my previous take on the thread.

The fullness of the Gentiles is almost complete! The Antichrist Bloody Beast Obama is going to become king of the world. Obama-the-Muslim is a monstrous sinner before God, promoting abortion, sodomy, proud sin and blasphemy. He is fixated on making Israel yield to his demand for a two-state solution. Israel is a savage hypocritical nation of filthy sinners before God, disproportionately engaged in sodomy, abortion, pornography and idolatry, while claiming to be the chosen people.
http://www.godhatesfags.com/

This much, at least, is child abuse.

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Sign of falling times approaching.

Coming to a town near you, the Catholic apocalypse.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

This much, at least, is child abuse.

The old Westboro Baptist.... Now you know I have a particular dislike for those boys. I tried two browsers and I cannot connect to website ????

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

The old Westboro Baptist.... Now you know I have a particular dislike for those boys. I tried two browsers and I cannot connect to website ????

It was available earlier this morning, but not now. Who knows? Popularity comes at a cost?

Originally posted by Jaybro:

It was available earlier this morning, but not now. Who knows? Popularity comes at a cost?

maybe ole virus kid took them down...put that boy in my will...

What bothers you about them?

Originally posted by Jaybro:

What bothers you about them?

Why they are Baptist of course..

Did we or I should say I have a failure to communicate again. As I have said before I have been told I always think people know what I mean. I dunno why I do but I do. I did get kicked in head once or perhaps, and most likely, some gene problem. Life is too short.

And you don't like Baptists because......

Originally posted by Jaybro:

Originally posted by Belfrager:

Sign of falling times approaching.

Coming to a town near you, the Catholic apocalypse.

Na na, the Yellow "apocalypse" will knock to WASP doors so much sooner, you can already hear it... Bye bye happiness...

Originally posted by classicdenny77:

maybe ole virus kid took them down...put that boy in my will..." class="smilie" width="26" height="17"> " class="smilie" width="43" height="17">

While the thought of it was entertaining (and you must of looked at my home page for that to be said) removal of any such religious website is against my stance on free will.

religion should be up to an induvidual to follow when they are old enough to understand.

Originally posted by Jaybro:

And you don't like Baptists because....

oh cut it out.. just my sisters Fundys all. Take the teacher out of the boy.

I just removed you from ant reimbursement... Hard to divide $2.20 .three ways anyway