Linux on my mind.

Linux on my mind.

A few months ago I installed Debian's distro Linux in a virtual machine as I was getting a little annoyed with Microsoft's attitude. Anyway, I had a bit of a look at it and could see pretty soon it was technically superior over Windows, anyway, I forgot my root password and kind of lost interest in it for a while as I felt limited. Anyway, over the past few days I have REALLY cracked it at Microsoft's fricken bull shit attitude and their HOPELESS coding (I.E, 1GB needed for Win7 LOL WTF?!)

So today I took on the challenge of setting a new root password through booting and pressing E and sending kernal some commands, and mastering installing programs at the terminal, and I can definately see myself using this great O/S more and more!

The only thing I worry about is applications being written for it.

I'm a big gamer, and with most games using the DirectX API, that means they are exclusive for Windows-based O/S's, when smart programmers would use OpenGL!
Also, I am a producr and my sound apps are all Windows written too.


According to a source, Linux has only 1% market share and I am aware most of that percentage these days make up computer noobs,

With the upcoming GNOME, Linux will get a nice modern look, but do people think Linux will pick up in future?

no

Why do you think that?

I switched to ubuntu (dual boot) just 4 days ago. Still trying to configure a couple of things but i' ve find it impressive. To your question now, i 'm not quite sure what is going to happen. You see, Opera is a brilliant browser but it has only a tiny percent among the users. They prefer eg ie becauce.... you know, how many people make their decisions. "I wanna to view some pages, dont bother me with tech stuff and complicated things".
So, many people ll remain loyal to mswin. "If linux doesnt work" or "whats going to happen to my pc", or "dont see the need to change my os". They dont even want to deal with 'awkard' things, which give them probably some trouble.
Finally, you just mentioned a very good point -some programs are running only with mswin -that of programs you cannot find their equivalent in linux. Eg they are many-many gamers.
A dual boot is a very good solution for them
As a conclusion, at least for the next few years, mswin will remain 'powerful' till a new generation of users take control.

Originally posted by velialgr:

Eg they are many-many gamers.
A dual boot is a very good solution for them

Yeah, I had dual-booted Ubuntu and Windows 7 because of programs that don't work under Wine (e.g. Facade, Pinnacle Studio 14, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Borderlands), but I will delete my Windows 7 partition when Steam is released for Linux (it's currently just a splash screen right now) and when Wine becomes 100% Windows compatible.

I've found many Linux applications some what annoying. I downloaded BitTorrent before and in its prequest, I needed 7 other applications for compiling, then when I went to get those applications, they too needed prequest applications... Its a big head ache.

That's what happens when you try to get something that isn't build for your system. Check your software installer, they'd already have several torrent applications available (not counting Opera).

Linux will grow immensely, but not so much on the desktop market. Android (for smartphones) is built up on Linux, then there's Meebo and WebOS (designed for netbooks and tablets), and Palm also uses Linux - Linux is already big in the mobile market and will only get bigger. Linux is also used inside many DVD players and smart TVs ... you might have already been using Linux and never knew it.

Originally posted by 1234rewq:

Also, I am a producr and my sound apps are all Windows written too.

Suppose that your sound hardware is compatible, why not try Studio64, a multimedia orientated and Debian based distro?

Yes, I think Linux is going to grow also. Its open sourced, its free, and it doesn't require a super computer just to run unlike Win7. I think developers need to drop the prequests though, so compiling is easier. I also think Linux needs more novice tutorials.
I am sure I could get allot of the stuff I have trouble with working, but I am 25, not 15 anymore, so I don't have all day to play around.

With gaming, Windows is not to blame. Its the developers that chose to use DirectX, making it tied to Windows, when they could be smart like iD Software and use OpenGL.


Awesome! I have Debian, and Studio64 is looks as capable as SONAR for what I need... I'll check this out when I get the time thanks man!

Originally posted by 1234rewq:

Awesome! I have Debian, and Studio64 is looks as capable as SONAR for what I need... I'll check this out when I get the time thanks man!

My pleasure!

In the meantime, you can get a lot of info at:

linux-sound.org

Linux can be veeeery interesting!

The gaming in Linux will improve as more people start using Linux. It will start as game people group together, organize, start developing and contributing code. Chrome OS a version of Linux will make a big splash soon.

Valve confirmed that Steam will be coming to Linux in "the next few months" (they made the announcement after releasing the Mac version), and there are already Linux-native games sold on Steam. So, yes, when the world's largest computer (or PC, whatever you prefer) gaming platform hits Linux, gaming on Linux will take a massive turn upwards.

Can't wait until I get to play Team Fortress 2 natively on my Ubuntu installation without Wine ;_;

Originally posted by 1234rewq:

I've found many Linux applications some what annoying. I downloaded BitTorrent before and in its prequest, I needed 7 other applications for compiling, then when I went to get those applications, they too needed prequest applications... Its a big head ache.

If you're using Debian, you should be able to avoid this with apt-get

I type in the command

sudo apt-get install bittorent

and I get the reply

Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
[U]The following extra packages will be installed:
  python-bittorrent[/U]
Suggested packages:
  bittorrent-gui
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  bittorrent python-bittorrent
0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 107kB of archives.
After this operation, 651kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? 

Note the part that I underlined. (Okay, the part that I tried to underline!) The dependancies have been calculated. All I have to do now is hit return and I'll get bittorrent downloaded and installed automatically, along with my only dependancy, python-bittorrent.

apt-get is the command-line version of the APT packaging system. There are GUI frontends, including synaptic and aptitude.

Underlining doesn't work in a code block ...

Microsoft will be there for your everyday user.

Linux will always be there for your advanced users.

I m using linux mint only for the past month so i cannot tell that i am an advanced user. My impression is that linux can be more user friendly than any version of windows. First of all its a lot more easy to customize your pc (or laptop) and you have clearly more options for that. It s a piece of cake to install the programs that i need -in fact they are many ways to find and install a program and some brilliant programs are all in the same place.
Another example? When i was trying (in win) to copy/paste some files from one disc to another, i was receiving some error messages regarding the unacceptable names of some files. Trying the same thing in linux and not such a problem occured (and the whole process took significant less time). Why am i saying that? Because i dont want any more to lose a single second trying to figure out how to solve the name-issue and such silly problems -an every day user doesnt want that kind of staff to deal with.
As i said before, if you are eg a die-hard gamer, than you cannot escape from M$ : a dual-boot is your limit. I dont belong any more in that category, i m finished with windows (and ie and wmplayer and regedit etc) and i can do the things that i want to do in my new os. I really enjoy the gui and the awesome layout and right know, i m trying to learn more about the terminal and how you can get the most of it. That last thing is not a necessity for an everyday linux user but ...oh, simply its my wish.

Originally posted by apollos84:

Microsoft will be there for your everyday user.



Linux will always be there for your advanced users.

It should be the other way round. Ubuntu is dead easy for a newbie. But Windows takes years to learn and decades to master! (just my opinon btw )


It should be noted that Linux dominates on computers in almost every sphere <em>except</em> the desktop market. .

Originally posted by 1234rewq:

I've found many Linux applications some what annoying. I downloaded BitTorrent before and in its prequest, I needed 7 other applications for compiling, then when I went to get those applications, they too needed prequest applications... Its a big head ache.

I am agree with it..

Linux is a great computer, I really will not argue. The closest thing to that would be the Dell because all of its designed software is latexy so most URL's have it's own advantages. If you like Linux I was really browsing but not in the market for one so I really would'nt know.

Huh? Linux is not a computer like Dell, it is an operating system like Windows or OSX.

Exactly. There's a difference between an operating system and a computer. I go on deviantART and I've seen a lot of people who put down their computer manufacturer as their operating system rather than something like Windows, Linux or OS X

I find it really sad in this day and age that people do not know the difference between Operating System and computer manufacturer. I think the main part of that problem is because Windows and Mac dominate the market. They don't sell to computer users, they sell to people who want a computer. If that makes sense. Most people just don't care to learn about computers even thought hey are a HUGE part of todays life. I truly am disappointed in people when they have never heard of Linux or Free and Open Source Software. Get with it people. The more you know the better off you'll be in life.

@ xdunlapx

totally agree with u

Originally posted by xdunlapx:

Get with it people. The more you know the better off you'll be in life.

Originally posted by velialgr:

totally agree with u

You both are right, At one time I wanted to tell the whole world about Linux and let them know something is better than Windows. The main reason was to create a critical mass for Linux apps. Now Linux is superior and has equivalent and in many instances superior apps. Now I look at the people that I am competing with and I am able to do two or three times the productivity than people using Windows. I sort of want to keep the advantage to myself. I am of the belief that Linux dominance is inevitable, I want to enjoy my competitive advantage as long as possible. So I just smile when I see a competitor using windows. Sometimes it is sort of humorous, people see me whipping through a task using a LT and they go out and buy the same model and try to keep up using WIn OS. There are times that other people are embarrassed to open up their laptops around me because of the speed and my mastery of Linux.
On Oct 10 there will be a new Ubuntu release. It will load quicker at startup and it optimise's the use of multiple processors. WIndows people will have to wait at least for a year, for this; that is if Microsoft ever releases a windows 8.

This thread is embarrassing.

Microsoft's fricken bull shit attitude and their HOPELESS coding (I.E, 1GB needed for Win7 LOL WTF?!)

Please. RAM is incredibly cheap. Laptops with 4GB RAM and desktops with 12GB RAM are standard. Microsoft has been doing what any commercial OS developer would do under these circumstances, which is take advantage of the RAM with services and caching that are meaningful to an increasing range of users and software needs. Disable services and features you don't like.

According to a source, Linux has only 1% market share and I am aware most of that percentage these days make up computer noobs

Indeed, it's 1.1%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
Careful, iOS is catching up. With the iPad, the iOS numbers might have already surpassed Linux.

Yes, I think Linux is going to grow also. Its open sourced, its free, and it doesn't require a super computer just to run unlike Win7.

Wow I didn't realize my Dell Mini 9 netbook was a supercomputer. That must explain why it's such an incredibly fast little netbook that does anything I need a little 9-incher to do (except, perhaps, play HD content at 24 fps, but I didn't expect quite that much, it's 2 or so years old, the newer netbooks can keep up thanks to the likes of nVidia ION).

Windows 7 is pretty lean. Windows 7's requirements are somewhere between Windows XP and Windows Vista. XP wasn't great in its day a decade ago but hardware has evolved and XP in itself hasn't, so the fact that Win7 is even comparable to XP and yet it is a modern OS speaks wonders.

I'm a big gamer, and with most games using the DirectX API, that means they are exclusive for Windows-based O/S's, when smart programmers would use OpenGL!

There is a reason why developers code for DirectX and not OpenGL. Like Linux vs Windows, OpenGL vs DirectX is a catch-up game. DirectX has all the latest features that video card manufacturers have been targeting in their drivers, and OpenGL is constantly struggling to acknowledge these features, to say nothing of keeping up. And since Windows is the consumer choice operating system for 80-90% of the gamer market, not to mention the excellent support Microsoft provides to developers, the game developers have an easy choice to make. Building cross-platform software is an expensive proposition from the get-go in the first place, from a development standpoint. As a programmer myself, I would probably use OpenGL for educational purposes, but don't see it being particularly practical for advanced 3D stuff since it is perceived by many to only support basic 3D functionality, even if those basics are extremely well-supported by cross-platform software.

Please. RAM is incredibly cheap.

Please, that is no excuse for poor coding.

Originally posted by Stimpy77:

Please. RAM is incredibly cheap. Laptops with 4GB RAM and desktops with 12GB RAM are standard.

No they're not, unless you mean standard high-end.

Originally posted by Stimpy77:

There is a reason why developers code for DirectX and not OpenGL. Like Linux vs Windows, OpenGL vs DirectX is a catch-up game. DirectX has all the latest features that video card manufacturers have been targeting in their drivers, and OpenGL is constantly struggling to acknowledge these features, to say nothing of keeping up. And since Windows is the consumer choice operating system for 80-90% of the gamer market, not to mention the excellent support Microsoft provides to developers, the game developers have an easy choice to make. Building cross-platform software is an expensive proposition from the get-go in the first place, from a development standpoint. As a programmer myself, I would probably use OpenGL for educational purposes, but don't see it being particularly practical for advanced 3D stuff since it is perceived by many to only support basic 3D functionality, even if those basics are extremely well-supported by cross-platform software.

The GeForce 400 Series supports OpenGL 4.1, which is roughly equivalent to DirectX 11. If many do indeed perceive that OpenGL only does basic things (like it did back in the early nineties, I presume), they perceive wrong.

Besides, id Software's engines, lots of CAD software, etc. use OpenGL. I think we can all agree that id Software has consistently produced some pretty amazing 3D engines...

Originally posted by Frenzie:

Besides, id Software's engines, lots of CAD software, etc. use OpenGL. I think we can all agree that id Software has consistently produced some pretty amazing 3D engines...

id Software consistently produces amazing 3D engines using OpenGL?


You can say that again. That's an early screenshot of RAGE, one of the first id Tech 5 games, I might as well point out, so yes, OpenGL CAN look amazing, even in an engine's early stages. It's just that not many developers take advantage of what it's capable of.

<this-is-all-off-topic>

Originally posted by Stimpy77:

There is a reason why developers code for DirectX and not OpenGL. Like Linux vs Windows, OpenGL vs DirectX is a catch-up game. DirectX has all the latest features that video card manufacturers have been targeting in their drivers, and OpenGL is constantly struggling to acknowledge these features, to say nothing of keeping up.

If you're referring purely to "gaming" features, then you're probably right here - but you should say so specifically. In general, OpenGL vs DirectX is very like Linux vs Windows, but not because OpenGL is playing "catch-up" with DirectX (in the same way as Linux isn't playing "catch-up" with Windows) - they're primarily targeted at different markets. While Linux is perceived as something of a minnow OS because of it's perceived desktop usage, it dominates the server market, primarily because its feature set is far better suited to a server than to a desktop. Similarly, OpenGL is used almost exclusively by the CAD industry (a massive industry, though not one that gets much press as your average consumer doesn't use CAD apps) and is generally far more advanced than DirectX in this particular field. As for video card manufacturers targeting DirectX over OpenGL, this is also untrue, as both nVidia and ATi provide separate OpenGL-optimised product-lines for industry use (Quadro and FireGL).

One example of the difference in use-cases is that accuracy is far more important in CAD apps than in games. In games performance comes first, and aesthetic (which is primarily down to textures, which are RAM heavy but not reliant on high precision calculation) - in CAD micro-millimeter precision is often a matter of life or death (depending on what's being manufactured) - how fancy and well textured something looks, and how quickly it renders aren't priorities.
</this-is-all-off-topic>

Back on topic - the OP's main complaints with Windows seem to be performance, and oddly enough in my experience this isn't something the distributions mentioned sofar in this thread really excel at. Having tried Linux Mint, and various *buntu flavours, I've actually found my (Vista-like) Windows install actually performed a lot better in my un-scientific "testing" (general impression from general usage). Ubuntu/Mint are absolutely incredible packages, I recommend them to a lot of people, for a lot of reasons - performance however isn't one of them. If performance is what you're looking for, I'd do a bit of shopping around on the Linux scene - there's far slimmer, faster distros.

Serious gaming is coming to Linux. With most of the smart phones using Android and with the Android tablets that are soon arriving, there will be enough critical mass Linux platforms that it will be profitable to start porting games to Linux.

Originally posted by grysmn:

Serious gaming is coming to Linux. With most of the smart phones using Android and with the Android tablets that are soon arriving, there will be enough critical mass Linux platforms that it will be profitable to start porting games to Linux.

That is true because Android OEMs like Motorola and HTC are starting to push out high-end phones (e.g. Droid X) thus increasing the potential for well-developed games for Android.

Gaming on Linux for the desktop PC might not happen until Valve finally decides to release Steam for Linux. Valve is known for many of the most popular PC games (e.g. Half-Life series, Team Fortress 2) and there are already games with native Linux ports sold on Steam. Considering how Steam for Mac is starting to usher in Mac OS X as a gaming platform, there's no doubt Steam on Linux may or may not do the same for Linux. The biggest roadblock in that would have to be the average Linux user's refusal to buy software, even if it gets really good reviews everywhere and is highly recommended.

Hey all,



I haven't been on these forums since I last made this post and was shocked when I returned to find my last post sitting at number one.


Well, whats happend since my initial post? I have pissed off the virtual machine with Debian. I installed Ubuntu duel-booting with my Windows XP and was booting the Windows XP partition inside Linux via VirtualBox.

I had an issue because I needed re-activate again due to Windows seing new hardware (that VirtualBox emulates) and had to re-activate again... Then when I wanted play games and would re-activate AGAIN when booting into XP... I did a rush attempt at switching off activation via a few cheap tricks (no read access to WGA.exe.. dll.. etc for any user), anyway, winlogon sooked that 'something' was preventing activation and would not let me login outside safe mode... THATS IT! I realized I could take any more of this bull shit operating system... being locked out of my own fuckin operating system by a mechanism that was designed to stop pirates, yet only stops legimate users!! I cannot put up with this rubbish anymore and it was time for Windows to go.. so I removed Windows completely and now I have just Ubuntu on my system.

Ununtu is such a wonderful operating system. I am so glad I am using it. Every day I come home and excited to use my computer again... I have not had this feeling for many, many years. I cannot stop praising it to people.. I have already 'converted' a few friends from Windows - even a girl, heh..

After a few weeks I did start to feel Ubuntu was a little nooby and would be interested in using Debian, but to be honest. I am not a big fan of change and after all at the end of the day, Ubuntu is Debian and a generic Linux kernal is a generic Linux kernal amongst distributions. I also like the Ubuntu GNOME theme, where as Debian kind of 'brings the adult' out in me - its plain, boring and doesn't have a character lol.


As for the games, I have experienced issues with many DirectX games under WINE 1.2.

The future of games I believe will be bright for Linux. iD Tech 5, which ID are producing for their game RAGE and Doom 4 uses OpenGL. RAGE has also been confirmed with being released with a Linux binary on disc!!! and I would think Doom 4 would be the same. As much as I hate it (I am anti-product activation), Valves Steam client is also being written up for Linux.

Computers and peoples perception of them have changed. The people that laughed at us a decade ago for using computers are now on them (Facebook, banking) every day. The taboo of using a computer is dead. Windows are for these people. People that just 'use' a computer.
Us computer enthusiasts want more out of computers, thats where Linux has its place.

Windows to me is pure annoyance. I am a telemarketer and I deal with stupid people all day, but Windows seriously takes the cake; I do not know what the hell goes through peoples mind at Redmond. By the way, I had a good laugh today when my colleague was closing in on a sale and Windows auto-update involuntarily popped up and my colleague just hit 'restart' in the heat of the moment and he lost that sale haha.

One thing that I have got complete satisfaction from is with hot-shot micky mouse Windows administrators that talk themself up as computer God's, only to make them go all quite by simply mentioning the magic word 'Linux'.

'mount? whats that? which installer wizard is that from?' hahahahahaha

Originally posted by 1234rewq:

'mount? whats that? which installer wizard is that from?' hahahahahaha

I've run partitions as mount points to some extent since long before I really knew Linux existed. Early Windows experience taught me to keep C only for Windows itself and some other removable junk, with a D partition for programs and files I wanted to keep. I have added a bit to this (mostly due to more HDDs), but the simple way in which I can preserve and copy settings through /home in Linux... man, I wish Windows had something like that (transfer documents & settings doesn't count - not by a long run; way too much wizard involvement for one).

Originally posted by 1234rewq:

One thing that I have got complete satisfaction from is with hot-shot micky mouse Windows administrators that talk themself up as computer God's, only to make them go all quite by simply mentioning the magic word 'Linux'.

You have sort of summed it all up!

Both OpenGL and DX are widely used in many different fields. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. To say the OpenGL supports basic 3D functionality is a very noob-thing to say. As for the APIs and such - try using Wine. Many people, who are scratching only the surface of this wonderful piece of software, don't know that there are many possibilities to tweak the registry and greatly improve the performance of a game.
M$ is trying to gain a complete control over the market for OSs. It's called monopoly and is a bad thing. That's why there are so many lawsuits against this giant from the EU and other institutions. Competition leads to greater and faster progress. It's a fact known to mankind since the dawn of its existence. Since M$ loves behind-the-scene dirty playing, there's no wonder that many hardware-manufacturers willingly become slaves of this corporation. Money makes the world go around. Linux on the other hand doesn't have the money-power to compete with that.In that past few years things are changing and Linux is gaining popularity quite fast (although money is still an issue). People complain that a Linux distribution doesn't support this and that piece of hardware. Well, this isn't a fault of the Linux community only. Drivers are usually written by volunteers since most hardware-manufacturers are underneath M$'s boot. It's not right to expect the same results from people, who do this for free and in their spare time (you can't sustain your family with air ) and people, who are paid thousands to do the very same things. Yes, volunteers do this because they love it. This often leads to quite awesome results. And yet when you look at the whole picture it cannot be compared to the paid work. The more people devote their time to helping Linux, the better results we'll get.

PS: A bit off-topic but nonetheless a funny (in a painful way) example how lame Windows is: for unknown reasons Windows was used to display the latest food-menu on a couple of LCD displays in the main hall of the uni's canteen (or mensa as it's called here). Quite a few times instead of the food-menu we - the students - got a nice blue scree of death. After a couple of times they switched to Linux. Haven't seen such problems ever since. LOL