Please consider to intergrate Noscript for Opera

Please consider to intergrate Noscript for Opera

I know there is a application called Blockit for Opera but it's so complicated to use and not as convenient as Noscript for FF so I'd hope Opera developers would intergrate Noscript into Opera as I think it'd be a plus for Opera browser compared to other browser that don't have this function. Moreover, this function could save Opera users bandwidth and time to load a web-page.

How about disabling JavaScript?

Originally posted by purgossu:

If you want JS disabled by default but need to use it just in specific sites, right click, "Edit Site Preferences..." and check "Enable Javascript" in "Scripting" tab. That should do the work.

this is no where near as useful as noscript. the build in function in Opera will enable/disable all javascripts on a site. noscript lets you enable/disable javascript selectively which is way more useful.

Originally posted by rushad0:

Originally posted by purgossu:

If you want JS disabled by default but need to use it just in specific sites, right click, "Edit Site Preferences..." and check "Enable Javascript" in "Scripting" tab. That should do the work.

this is no where near as useful as noscript. the build in function in Opera will enable/disable all javascripts on a site. noscript lets you enable/disable javascript selectively which is way more useful.

Yes, Noscript is much better and useful than the way Opera handling Java-script......

Originally posted by rushad0:

the build in function in Opera will enable/disable all javascripts on a site. noscript lets you enable/disable javascript selectively which is way more useful.

Blocking JavaScript globally on untrusted sites (or generally) is the most secure approach anyway.
Nevertheless an option for blocking only 3rd party scripts would be handy and IMO easy to implement into the browser.

Originally posted by proghead:

And you read through all the scripts all the time to decide on which ones to keep and which ones to disable, right? Sounds like fun and a good way to spend your time. NOT.

you only have to whitelist a site ONCE. Also, noscript has sync function. So once you whitelist a site, you are set forever. I prefer it that way, and there are many users out there who do. Noscript is one of the most famous firefox addon. That shows how many people prefer unlocking sites one at a time.

Obviously, you have no idea about that though!

Originally posted by proghead:

Originally posted by rushad0:

Originally posted by purgossu:

If you want JS disabled by default but need to use it just in specific sites, right click, "Edit Site Preferences..." and check "Enable Javascript" in "Scripting" tab. That should do the work.

this is no where near as useful as noscript. the build in function in Opera will enable/disable all javascripts on a site. noscript lets you enable/disable javascript selectively which is way more useful.

And you read through all the scripts all the time to decide on which ones to keep and which ones to disable, right? Sounds like fun and a good way to spend your time. NOT.

Seriously, what purgossu said makes perfect sense.

Nah, when you visit a web-page and it doesn't load its content, then you realize that it require the javascript in order to display the content, so you just need to click on the Noscript button to allow it. It's so quick and easy. On the other hand, with Opera, it gonna take you at least 5 secs to get it done through a few clicks. Once you allow a specific website to run its javascript , it will also allow all other javascript to run. Wtih Noscript, you can control over which javascript can run or not. It not only save time to load the webpage but also save your bandwidth as you don't load along all the trunk that you don't want.

Originally posted by opera1978:

Nah, when you visit a web-page and it doesn't load its content, then you realize that it require the javascript in order to display the content, so you just need to click on the Noscript button to allow it. It's so quick and easy. On the other hand, with Opera, it gonna take you at least 5 secs to get it done through a few clicks. Once you allow a specific website to run its javascript , it will also allow all other javascript to run. Wtih Noscript, you can control over which javascript can run or not. It not only save time to load the webpage but also save your bandwidth as you don't load along all the trunk that you don't want.

Thanks you for putting it so nicely.

Originally posted by opera1978:

On the other hand, with Opera, it gonna take you at least 5 secs to get it done through a few clicks.

You can disable JavaScript through one click in one second as well:
JavaScript checkbox.png

Keep in mind that you can customize the UI in order to fit your needs.

BTW it is int Appearance>Buttons>Preferences.

Never quite understood while people do this. To save bandwidth? You running dial up like I used to? I get 70GB peak and 60 offpeak for $50/month (uploads not counted)

Guess Bandwidth costs you a fortune, where you live.

Originally posted by Ichann:

Never quite understood while people do this. To save bandwidth?

Almost all the junk and crap are loaded via JavaScript.
Not everybody enjoys all that junk and crap no matter how fast or slow his connection is

Originally posted by Ichann:

BTW it is int Appearance>Buttons>Preferences.

Never quite understood while people do this. To save bandwidth? You running dial up like I used to? I get 70GB peak and 60 offpeak for $50/month (uploads not counted)

Guess Bandwidth costs you a fortune, where you live.

You gotta understand that saving bandwidth is the least benefit we got from this add on "No-script". I got 200 GB per month in total with my ISP so bandwidth is not a big deal for me. The major benefit of noscipt are the safety and time-saving to load webpage content. Suppose, a website let you connect at the speed of 50 KBps ( regradless of whether you're using ADSL 2+ or FTTH/P), and the total content of that website is 500 Kb, so it's take 10s for Opera to load content. Now let's say with Noscript, we can save about 100 KB, that mean we save 2s. Does it make opera better with Noscript or not?

NOSCRIPTS ROCKS in Firefox as does Ad Blocker Plus.

If you never used them you'll not know how nice they are.... but you'll at least have to try firefox for a month or more... which I have done with Opera been using it for a month now and I like it but I also miss those two very crucial extensions that Firefox gives you as a user... simple and easy to use very easy to use.
Its a very sad that Opera has not done a better job to perform ad blocking like Firefox has done with those two extensions.
Its been very frustrating to have certain ads block my reading content on the web and some of them not so easily removable.
Block Content in Opera is so just so so not very good and fanboyz URLfilter is not even on par with Noscripts or Ad Blocker Plus.

Just my two cents worth...

Originally posted by purgossu:

Try AdSweep and BlockIt. You won't miss those two Fx extensions (at least I don't).

These two add-on are no way to compete with No-script and Adblock plus. Have you ever seen anyone to moan something like "Please, we'd like to have Adsweep and Blockit for Fireofox............"

Nope. Then again, Firefox already has ad blocking extensions, so there's really no need.

Originally posted by twoplanker:

NOSCRIPTS ROCKS in Firefox as does Ad Blocker Plus.

Opera has Noscript built in, and there are several third party ad blockers out there.

Its a very sad that Opera has not done a better job to perform ad blocking like Firefox has done with those two extensions.

It should be pretty obvious that it would be financial suicide for a browser to have an ad blocker that makes obsessive-compulsive ad haters happy. There's a reason why Firefox doesn't have one. Opera barely gets away with it because it's called a content blocker instead of an ad blocker.

There's nothing sad about Opera not including an ad blocker that satisfies obsessive-compulsive ad blocking people. They would have been banned from sites, and would have gone bankrupt. It's the reality of the market. TANSTAAFL.

Originally posted by Slamdex:

It should be pretty obvious that it would be financial suicide for a browser to have an ad blocker that makes obsessive-compulsive ad haters happy.

then make it an option for the obsessive-compulsive ad haters. not everyone has to use it.

i would just wonder, why would anyone not block advertising banners if they have option to do it!!!

Originally posted by purgossu:

And let's compare Adblock Plus

There is no point in discussing Adblock Plus in this thread. It is about Noscript

Just wanna update this thread to remind Opera developers.......

I see the problem here, the old school opera users and devs see it this way. Oh you don't want scripts, well go turn them off by hitting F12 ( it's all or nothing ) or go hunt for it in the options or wait this is funny LOAD the page first and then block the script ( love that one ). All of it is very draconian look on things and VERY VERY APPLE like mentality. Yes I said it.

The people or YOUR users are wanting a easy way ( easy ui and easy way to install it ) to have some no script blocker in place and be able to quickly white list the site if it is ok to run.

You guys do want more users to use the damn browser other than devs and other hard core users? This feature would take you guys maybe a couple days worth of your time to implement and you would gain so much ground in the process.

I'm done and back to the shadows I go.

Originally posted by opera1978:

Does it make opera better with Noscript or not?

As I am a patient individual. I would say no, it does not.

All I use is an ad block list. Sites I frequently visit do not employ annoying jscript.

PS: Hey dude, Ozzy. Facy meeting someone from the land down under here. What brings you to these parts of the interwebs?

Originally posted by Gutts:

All of it is very draconian look on things and VERY VERY APPLE like mentality. Yes I said it.

Yes, you said it, but that doesn't mean it makes sense. The JavaScript settings in Opera are pretty much equivalent to what Chrome, Safari, IE, and FireFox all offer by default. (You have to dig quite a bit to disable JavaScript in IE, but it's there) As far as I can tell, Chrome and Opera are the only ones that offer per-site enabling/disabling of JavaScript. Does that mean that all the major browsers have a draconian, Apple-like mentality? Ok, I'll give you Safari, but the others? (Remember, NoScript is an addon—it is not a feature of FireFox itself)

Originally posted by Gutts:

You guys do want more users to use the damn browser other than devs and other hard core users? This feature would take you guys maybe a couple days worth of your time to implement and you would gain so much ground in the process.

I think you're underestimating the amount of work it takes to write a new feature, integrate it into the main builds, and thoroughly test it. Besides, there is already an "easy ui and easy way to install" Blockit (or any user script for that matter). Get the User JS Manager Unite app, open Blockit.js, click the "Install User Script" button on the upper right. Blockit installed. Read the Blockit documentation and you'll see it does have a UI and, while it may not be as intuitive or convenient as a right click menu, it is certainly usable.

i dont get it - NoScript is used to block JS in generally and allow it on websites you trust , right?
you can turn JS off in Opera and turn it selectively on for trusted websites in Opera.
whats the difference? the need to go into kontext-menu?

I guess what I am getting at and you guys keep blowing this off for some reason is that, Noscript has been downloaded over 68 Million times. They obviously doing something right to get the users to download it and use it.

That is also not a easy way to install it, you are asking people to download some script manager on top of the browser to just handle addon scripts and then turn around and install that said script. Instead of just having something also built in natively to the browser to take care of that with a swift click to install it? Come on now.

Let take for instance techcrunch.com. This site has more scripts running on it than 4 nfl/mlb sites put together. I think it has 14 different scripts firing off of on 13 different domains. Now, if I have NoScript on FF running and that webpage loads I will know how many js/flash/silverlite and some other crap are being triggered and from where and locations and it will block them outright. Until I whitelist it or greylist (temporary until the browser is closed).

Alright now, Let's say I jump trough all the hoops and read the instructions how to install this blockit script along with your manager script. When I first go to a website like techcrunch that I know has a ton of scripts, is this thing going to tell me what scripts are triggering and from where? Can it let me pick and choose out of those scripts what I want to run? Will it let me make a white list of sites to allow globally run scripts?

addons for ff are downloaded so many times because ff cant do a damn thing witouht tons of addons - and

Originally posted by Gutts:

Alright now, Let's say I jump trough all the hoops and read the instructions how to install this blockit script along with your manager script.

dude - wahts wrong wiith you? you can just run JS off and visely on for sites you liek in site preferecnces - why bother with additional scripts?
and even if - there is uiniteApp for managing UserJS

I think we miss a point here - at least that's the way I see it.

The actual problem is not the question whether to build the Firefox addon "noscript" into Opera, because the functionality is already there (and was there much earlier ).

BUT the point is what makes Opera's "edit site preferences" inferior to the current implementation of the FF addon?

The usability. Again there is no question - you CAN create customized buttons to switch javascript, plugins on/off in Opera easily.
But it is a hassle to do that once for a specific website that uses the amount of web 2.0 functionality that every bigger website uses nowadays.

My problem with the current implemention:
Every website admin split the site into a dozen domains. Hence this renders the "single URL" implementation of Opera useless. (What might have been the intention of the splitting in the first place :-p ?)
Noscript solves this by showing a list of all domains currently loaded.
Opera does not do this.
E.g.: I use a fresh install of Opera, disable all "active content" and go to youtube. Obviously the site is unusable. Now I create a custom preference for youtube.com. Fine. Does the site work? No. OK, I see a lot of images from ytimg.com. I add that,too. Does a video load now? No. etc.
--> Trial and error through the source code until I found the perpetrator? Dragonfly? Does a standard user even think about this? Make it easier for the user!
For starters adding a domain list to the "edit site preferences" dialog would help a lot to make this function usable (again).
This is what Opera lacks in my opinion - not porting an existing addon to another browser but extending the already existing functionality.

Regards,
Toreyam

P.S.: Because in the last Opera versions the "block content", "search" and "wand" popup-dialog was renewed, I guess this might be the time for the "edit site preferences" dialog,too. ;-)

Originally posted by bleicher:

i dont get it - NoScript is used to block JS in generally and allow it on websites you trust , right?
you can turn JS off in Opera and turn it selectively on for trusted websites in Opera.
whats the difference? the need to go into kontext-menu?

In Opera, you can turn off JS globally and enable it per-site via site preferences. But, when you visit a site where you allow JS via a site preference, all scripts on the page run, including scripts from other sites. "Other sites" refers not only to sites that have site preferences that allow JS to run, but sites that don't have site preferences where if you visited those sites directly, JS wouldn't run. In essence, you have a security leak, so turning off JS globally and using site preferences doesn't help much.

As an example of how it should work in Opera, see the cookie handling. You can turn off cookies globally and enable them with site preferences. Then, even if you set "Accept cookies" for a site, when visiting the site, cookies from 3rd party content won't be allowed unless those 3rd party sites also have site preferences that allow cookies.

Not only that, but Opera doesn't allow you to to fine tune exactly what scripts (not sites) you want to allow. And, Opera has a horrible UI for doing the little bit it can do.

With that said, Opera just needs to fix sites preferences to be more robust (and safer) with script handling. And, Opera needs to provide a way for you to sync things. And, Opera needs to improve the UI to make site preferences more accessible and a site's settings easier to toggle.

Originally posted by burnout426:

Originally posted by bleicher:

i dont get it - NoScript is used to block JS in generally and allow it on websites you trust , right?
you can turn JS off in Opera and turn it selectively on for trusted websites in Opera.
whats the difference? the need to go into kontext-menu?

In Opera, you can turn off JS globally and enable it per-site via site preferences. But, when you visit a site where you allow JS via a site preference, all scripts on the page run, including scripts from other sites. "Other sites" refers not only to sites that have site preferences that allow JS to run, but sites that don't have site preferences where if you visited those sites directly, JS wouldn't run. In essence, you have a security leak, so turning off JS globally and using site preferences doesn't help much.

As an example of how it should work in Opera, see the cookie handling. You can turn off cookies globally and enable them with site preferences. Then, even if you set "Accept cookies" for a site, when visiting the site, cookies from 3rd party content won't be allowed unless those 3rd party sites also have site preferences that allow cookies.

Not only that, but Opera doesn't allow you to to fine tune exactly what scripts (not sites) you want to allow. And, Opera has a horrible UI for doing the little bit it can do.

With that said, Opera just needs to fix sites preferences to be more robust (and safer) with script handling. And, Opera needs to provide a way for you to sync things. And, Opera needs to improve the UI to make site preferences more accessible and a site's settings easier to toggle.

I agree with you

I don't see the old faithful opera users being to kindly to firefox users when they ask opera to do what firefox has done for them in firefox. I sence indifference towards firefox users who now use opera.

what exact functionality of noscript is not supported by opera? just curious because I don't know the addon.

An example:
http://example.com is trying to load: a) fancy-ajax.js, b) advertising.js, c) spyware.js, d) exploit.js

Opera: turn on JS on that page and you'll get ads and your data may be logged/sold/whatever and your pc might get comprimised. Turn off JS and you won't have the fancy ui, but be safe.

Firefox with NoScript: allow fancy-ajax.js and block all other malicious stuff.

That's where Opera sucks and there's no good way around it natively, BlockIt is an attempt, but it's pretty bad actually. Of course, you could also use 3rd-party tools like the privoxy proxy or the like, but that's cumbersome.

so, essentially, nothing you couldn't do with the content blocker? So maybe the content blocker should simply add a list that shows all the sripts in the page so it is easier to add them.

Originally posted by serious:

so, essentially, nothing you couldn't do with the content blocker? So maybe the content blocker should simply add a list that shows all the sripts in the page so it is easier to add them.

Given:

Page: http://example.com/test.html
JS: off globally

test.html tries to load the script http://zipzambam.com/a/b/c/d/unwanted1.js
test.html tries to load the script http://zipzambam.com/h/i/j/k/unwanted2.js
test.html tries to load the script http://zipzambam.com/l/o/b/s/t/e/r/unwanted3.js
test.html tries to load the script http://zipzambam.com/zipity/doo/da/unwanted4_script.php
test.html tries to load the image http://zipzambam.com/z/y/x/w/ok.png
test.html tries to load the image http://zipzambam.com/zod/image.php
test.html tries to load the script http://example.com/ok.js

Goal: Load ok.js, ok.png and image.php. But, block unwanted1.js, unwanted2.js and unwanted3.js and unwanted4_script.php.

With noscript, you choose to just allow example.com by right-clicking on the noscript icon at the bottom.

For Opera, you:

1. Create a site preference for example.com and set it to enable javascript.

But, that will allow all the zipzambam.com js files to run while visiting example.com, so you must:

2. Add the URIs to unwanted1 - unwated4 js files to the content blocker and hope zipzambam.com doesn't add another js file (testscript.pl for example) without you knowing it.

As you can see, the content blocker isn't practical for doing what noscript does.

Further, when you right-click on the noscript icon, you can allow/block (temporarily or permanently) zipzambam.com etc. With Opera, right-clicking on the page and going to "Edit site preferences" will take you to just the example.com preferences. You have to go in the preferences through ctrl + F12 -> advanced -> content -> manage site preferences -> zipzambam.com -> edit -> scripting (the hard way) to get to the zipzambam.com preferences. But, again, the zipzambam.com preferences don't do anything while you're visiting example.com.

With noscript, you have the power to quickly block/unblock things from all involved sites on the page.

In short, Opera's UI isn't even close to noscript's usability.

With that said though, noscript is pretty crazy and does *lots* of stuff. It can be pretty chaotic. So, I'm not suggesting copying noscript as-is. Instead, similar features should be implemented in Opera's UI in a clean, but highly-usable, way.

The only way to understand what noscript does is to install Firefox and try it. If you don't go into its options, you won't understand all the stuff it does. It's not even close to just a pure JS blocker anymore.

I'm pretty sure the Javascripts could be blocked via a glob so it's a bit less work than apparent, but now I see where the problem comes from. From what I see here the one feature from NoScript that is really needed is a more granular control to whether scripts themselves are accepted. Something like this (limiting ourselves to scripts to map the wish onto the current interface):

• No scripts.
• Only scripts from this domain/page.
• Scripts from this domain/page, and domains/pages that are {explicitly allowed in cookies}/{not disabled in content blocker}.
• All scripts.

(the whole "allow that image only but not that script from that domain" thing is far deeper than what Opera should need to handle. IMHO if you are interacting with a site that wants you to accept a specific content from its server but gives you reason to block the rest of the content of the server, the problem is not Opera's (or the browser), but an attempt of violation of privacy from the server that should be treated via ISP / P3P / laws / something).

Originally posted by RyanChappelle:

(the whole "allow that image only but not that script from that domain" thing is far deeper than what Opera should need to handle. IMHO if you are interacting with a site that wants you to accept a specific content from its server but gives you reason to block the rest of the content of the server, the problem is not Opera's (or the browser), but an attempt of violation of privacy from the server that should be treated via ISP / P3P / laws / something).

Yeh, it was my way of stressing that noscript (the main part) deals in blocking scripts and Opera's content blocker deals in blocking whatever and with Opera's content blocker, it's not always easy to single out scripts.

and with Opera's content blocker, it's not always easy to single out scripts.

And that's only part of the problem.

There is no easy way to test, which scripts are really needed and which are just malicious/spyware/etc, thus if a first time visited site doesn't work as promised, you have to enable all JS for that site, which may go wrong. In NoScript, you get a nice list of the things blocked, which makes it way more easy to find a script (instead of digging trough the page), enable it, reload and see if it's needed.

OK, not everybody is qualified to read and understand JS, espacially since there are a lot of obfuscated scripts flying around, but that's also the important part: if you don't understand what it does, don't enable it - but well, there are still people out there who believe in the magic fariy powers of anti-virus software...

so, essentially the content blocker needs a pretty list of all embedded scripts and a whitelist feature, is that all or did I misunderstand you guys?

Originally posted by serious:

so, essentially the content blocker needs a pretty list of all embedded scripts and a whitelist feature, is that all or did I misunderstand you guys?

While that would be nice, that's not what we need, (in my opinion).

First, Opera needs to fix the site preference JS option so that if you turn off JS for a domain, JS for that domain is turned off no matter what site you're on.

Then, we need a better UI for site preferences. For example, when you're visiting a site, you should be able to quickly and easily get access to all site preferences for all the domains that apply to the page. Then, for all involved domains, we should also have quick toggles for certain things like JS, which would modify a site preference's setting if the site preference already existed or create a new site preference and apply the setting. That would be more like what no script does.

I'm not familiar with Noscript, but I've been wondering ... Suppose you had a new Panel for blocked elements and you could white-list a blocked element, while globally blocking javascripts, would it give you a similar functionality as Noscript?

In addition, the Information Panel already provides list of scripts and frames in page. If there were "Block Element" alongside "Inspect Element" in general context menu, then you could selectively block unwanted scripts and frames via Info Panel. Would it also work in a similar way to Noscript?

I can understand the wish for Noscript etc. integrated.

The worst thing with the site specific preferences as they are now:
With cookies there is the workaround to activate them globally, edit the site preferences, close the page, deactivate them, open the page again (that is annoying enough) and from that moment on it remembers the site specific cookies no matter if they are on or off globally - but with JS, if you do the same procedure, it is deactivated if you deactivate it globally and one of the pages is still open.
It doesn't work on the allowed sites, at least UserJS don't work (Just tested here on this page, I use Scribit and it didn't start with JS off and site specific JS on).

[ot]Worse: If I just want to disable Java and not Flash (or the other way round) in the 10.5+ series: No chance but exiting Opera and exchanging the plugins-ignore.ini ...
That is a main security concern to me, especially if I think about the last security holes in Java and Flash.
I am done with it. I surf with my browsers and all their insecure but partial needed additional stuff like Java, Flash, PDF Reader stuff in a virtual machine only.[/ot]

I've watched several "normal" Opera users who don't post here (we posters are more or less all power users the one or the other way, most of us know the hidden depths of Opera) during their surf sessions, they surf like the average IE user:
Everything "On" and nothing blocked because it is annoying to fiddle around with the preferences every time a site is b0rked because something was blocked or switched off...

IMHO the content block and the site specific preferences need a mayor overhaul because they are partially broken with the 10 Series and they are not user friendly AFAICS, they are just easy for programmers.

I have to agree. Opera lacks a convenient way to block ads, and pop-ups. Avant Browser had this years ago, and it's made by one developer. Ads can be extremely annoying. Couple of seconds after you downloaded a web page, a giant ad appears, and hogs up the entire screen. Pop-ups that appear in a different tab can be blocked with a right click option easily in browsers like old deceased NetCaptor. Many ads hog up resources from browsing, not just bandwidth, but can create spikes in CPU, and memory usage. Right-click option to block ads, and pop-ups to prevent them from "downloading" is very convenient. I had to select "Block all up pop-ups" in Opera, because "Block all unwanted pop-ups" doesn't block all unwanted pop-ups. No-Script, and Ad-Block are among the most popular extensions for Firefox for good reason, not out of sheer lunacy. To put up with unwanted ads, and pop-ups is lunacy in itself.

Given the better explanation of what enhancements are needed in the recent posts (specially burnout's), I'm faving this and expecting that the devs do catch up.

Originally posted by Toreyam:

The actual problem is not the question whether to build the Firefox addon "noscript" into Opera, because the functionality is already there (and was there much earlier " class="smilie" height="17" width="17"> ).

opera take all or nothing approach. what users are looking for is selective blocking, which is somewhere in middle.