Do something, quick!!! Your losing users....

Do something, quick!!! Your losing users....

Few years a go Opera was top of the line browser and everybody must have it. So did I. Liked many of it's enhanced features, like tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, popup blocker etc. But what has happened? Now everybody screams after Firefox, and with all reason. Opera came very unstable (reason why I'm writing this message with firefox) and some easily fixable features still doesn't excist (like NTLM support). I'm allmost regreting that I bought this crap, because now I don't even have it in my computer. Not in home or in office. Allso my new email(=gmail) didn't work in opera, which originally lead me into to GPL-world.

So my suggestion to all those who are considering to buy Opera, try Firefox. It does all the same tricks and doesn't cost you anything. It pisses me off finding this too late...

Sorry about language, it's definitely not my motherlanguage.

hmm... from what i know firefox is so popular now that anyone who plans to buy opera would have already tested firefox. and if he is still using/buying opera, maybe he knows more about opera than you do. i certainly find opera quiet capable compared to firefox with around 20 extensions loaded. i use both... because both have their powers and weaknesses.

I use both but prefer Opera

I find your post rather interesting. Yes, any browser may suit any person just fine, i.e., FireFox, Opera, I.E.,, Safari. So let it be. You have spoken and that is your opinion. You have the right to express your opinion and you have done so, but your heading may have been a bit overboard. And that's just my opinion.
BernieB

what surprises me is that no one has called him troll yet! but then this is not mozilla forum

Do you think it's true? What do they look like? Did I miss the obvious?
BernieB

I have 3 browsers on this machine, namely IE6, Firefox 1, and Opera 7.03. In truth, I hardly touch Firefox, it doesn't seem significantly different from IE except that it isn't as vulnerable to viruses. Opera has its quirks, and from what I read here recent upgrades have become somewhat unstable. I've had it crash here a couple of times, uncertain if it was because of the browser or because of something on the website I was visiting. Show me something on these Windows machines that doesn't get out of order from time to time, though.

Opera does handle cookies better than the other browsers, it alerts me when a site tries to set an illegal cookie better than the others do.

mjmsprt40:
I have all 3 browers that you have decribed on my computer. FireFox is used by my college son when he's home. Opera I use all the time and I.E. never. I personally have not had any problems with Opera crashing, but I have had problems at my office,but not due to crashing. Don't know why, but perhaps the OS has something to do with it. My office has Win 2000 Professional and I have Win Xp SP2 at home. I am using different versions of Opera (5.74 at the office and the latest PR 7.60 (c) on my laptop at home). I have always done a clean install of Opera and perhaps that plays an important part. I know that there's more knowldedgeable folks here to help you out!
BernieB

I found Firefox interesting but not earth shattering, Opera is loaded with advanced features and frilles but is just not as web friendly as it should be.
My current favorite is the Netscape Hybrid that just keeps on doing everything well...a pleasure to use.

Yeah... I'm an old Netscape user from way back and I'm looking forward to this latest release. Until then, my primary browser has become Firefox. I purchased Opera last summer but since Firefox went gold I've hardly touched Opera.

Well, it's true, sometimes opera crashes, but i don't worry as the session is automatically saved, and when i launch opera again, i can restart with the exact windows than before the crash. wooohooo!

I currently have several versions of Opera, Mozilla, Firefox, IE, Netscape Prototype, Maxathon, Crazy Browser, Irider and several other IE shells.

Out of all the above Opera gets most of the use, I trial the others, and Netscape is looking a close second. In my opinion they have improved greatly on the simplistic Firefox Interface, I am going to keep a eye on Netscape. Apart from that Opera simply does not have any close competitors in my opinion.

Same of the others have a few nice features, for example the tab management in Irider which I prefer over Operas method but it fails in others. Opera has done most things to a high standard which none of the others have reached. The much hyped about firefox, did not offer anything new, and to gain features which should be standard I had to rely on third party extensions. Firefox is not worth the hype it received and it seems to already be declining. I do not see much of a future for firefox, building a browser is a big effort and it would take something significant to gain the support from volunteers to release a 2nd or 3rd version.

The excellent Integration of web based features make Opera a pleasure to use and gives a surfing experience which no other browser can currently match. I have not found Opera unstable, and when it does crash, it saves the sessions and reloads the pages quickly so it is not really a problem.

Opera constantly improves and innovates its product, Every preview adds something new nice which helps just this little bit more to make Opera give the perfect browsing experience.

For this crashin issue: It was very common at home, at leas 2-3 times a day. And same in office. First I thought that my computer is sucking, but when I discussed about this issue with my friends (everybody was really using opera at that time), all of them had same problem. Of course everybody had diffrenet kind computers (I prefer this "clone" computer, not any big brand like Dell etc.) so it really didn't matter. Operating system is XP Pro UK, with all updates and newest drivers.

I wanted to get some attention with this subject, but it's true. If you watch this in Opera Software view, you can be pleased, because many has bought your software (including me), but nobody is not using it anymore. So mission accomplished, software sold, no need for after marketing.

And yes, this is not a troll. These are my opinions, based on about 10 peoples comments.

EDIT: I forgot in previous messages that Firefox isn't the ultimate way to heaven, it crashes too and has many features that needs to be done right, but it's much more closer than any else browser what I have tested. And I really like this "Extensions"-feature, now user can really modify browser and decide what knee features to use and what not. (<-nicely said? )

Sorry for the English again, try to get the idea.

For me the browsers are, like ...:

Internet Explorer = a useable enough family car, but not secure
IE shells (SlimBrowser, Maxthon) = a useable car with extra look and more security
Mozilla = a big juggernaut (power, extras, security)
FireFox = a rally car (speed,power,many extras,secure)
Opera = a top rated business car
( speed,power,many-many extras,secure...and "dolce vita feeling")

I know, that Opera has some compatibility problems, yet. But nowadays these are very
few, and as safety car there is the old IE with a mouse-click for the actual site.

Originally posted by vinczej
For me the browsers are, like ...:

Internet Explorer = a useable enough family car, but not secure
IE shells (SlimBrowser, Maxthon) = a useable car with extra look and more security
Mozilla = a big juggernaut (power, extras, security)
FireFox = a rally car (speed,power,many extras,secure)
Opera = a top rated business car
( speed,power,many-many extras,secure...and "dolce vita feeling")

I know, that Opera has some compatibility problems, yet. But nowadays these are very
few, and as safety car there is the old IE with a mouse-click for the actual site.

Yes, this quite true. But everybody knows, that basic Internet users has limited funds to operate with, so people easily choose less expensive rally car.

Internet Explorer is big joke IMHO, and nobody shouldn't use it. If some site doesn't work in 3rd party browser, it's not users problem. It's webmasters problem. Luckily in Finland all major services that are offered in WWW, works nowadays in all browsers (like banks, insurance companies, all goverment services...).

Originally posted by Vince
If you watch this in Opera Software view, you can be pleased, because many has bought your software (including me), but nobody is not using it anymore.

If no one is using Opera, then why is this forum bigger than the Mozilla forum? Why have thousands of people signed up here to discuss Opera? Why are Opera's revenues higher than ever before?

So mission accomplished, software sold, no need for after marketing.

Sure, if you ignore the fact that people who bought Opera 7.0 now have had two years of completely free upgrades, and that includes the latest 7.6 with voice browsing and a redesigned user interface. In fact, there have been four major and significant updates to Opera 7, that have added new features, polished existing features, made it faster and better, and so on.

I don't know what you mean by "after marketing", but you seem to be suggesting that Opera is just a scam which has kept on going long enough to sucker people into buying the product, and then dumping it. It's certainly a long lasting scam then, going on for nearly ten years!

Few years a go Opera was top of the line browser and everybody must have it.

This just proves how little you understand, and how silly your comments and claims are. A few years ago Opera was a tiny minority browser with a tiny niche market of hardcore geeks. Opera has never been more used than today! It's got more users than ever, and you come around here trying to trash talk it and completely distort the facts.

If you hate Opera so much, why do you even bother coming here? You obviously don't know what you are talking about anyway.

Originally posted by tir
If no one is using Opera, then why is this forum bigger than the Mozilla forum? Why have thousands of people signed up here to discuss Opera? Why are Opera's revenues higher than ever before?



Sure, if you ignore the fact that people who bought Opera 7.0 now have had two years of completely free upgrades, and that includes the latest 7.6 with voice browsing and a redesigned user interface. In fact, there have been four major and significant updates to Opera 7, that have added new features, polished existing features, made it faster and better, and so on.

I don't know what you mean by "after marketing", but you seem to be suggesting that Opera is just a scam which has kept on going long enough to sucker people into buying the product, and then dumping it. It's certainly a long lasting scam then, going on for nearly ten years!



This just proves how little you understand, and how silly your comments and claims are. A few years ago Opera was a tiny minority browser with a tiny niche market of hardcore geeks. Opera has never been more used than today! It's got more users than ever, and you come around here trying to trash talk it and completely distort the facts.

If you hate Opera so much, why do you even bother coming here? You obviously don't know what you are talking about anyway.

Finally, a troll. But must answer (I really shouldn't).

How dows size of forum have anything to do with actual product? Maybe any Firefox user doesn't have to find help and write to that board. I persnally didn't even know that Firefox had a official forum.

Yes, I own Opera 7 -lisence, but propably will not use it anymore. I get Firefox updates without my Visa, so where is the point?

I'm not acclaiming anybody as scammer, just pointing out my opinion. And if I don't use Opera anymore, I don't have any need to contact Opera Software and they don't have to offer any services for me. Easier for the company.

This "everybody must have" was true within my friends. We all have quite long exprerience using WWW, so using secure web-browser is naturally our choice. Of course majority of normal users thinks that IE=Internet, but everybody that I'm dealing with, are aware that it isn't so and even they can now choose better browser.

EDIT: Allmost forgot. I don't hate Opera, it still has many great features. Why shouldn't I come here? That Opera Softare would never know my feelings about their product? If you get pissed off when I'm critisizing your browser, you shouldn't be here. And trust me, I have some knowledge about this subject. Not much but some. Too much information just causes pain.

Originally posted by Vince
Yes, this quite true. But everybody knows, that basic Internet users has limited funds to operate with, so people easily choose less expensive rally car.

I use Opera with ad-banner, and it doesn't annoy me. But I use in fullscreen mode.
With the customer-buttons and startbar I can create a full-extra board-computer,
I can reach all function without to switch to normal screen back.

Internet Explorer is big joke IMHO, and nobody shouldn't use it. If some site doesn't work in 3rd party browser, it's not users problem. It's webmasters problem. Luckily in Finland all major services that are offered in WWW, works nowadays in all browsers (like banks, insurance companies, all goverment services...).

Although I know, that reasons of comapatibility problems are mostly webmasters, but
the site can be important, so I can't skip it. There is the useful IE. I mean, FF is
a profi-builded browser, but for me not handy and smooth enough. The lonely argument
for FF against Opera is for me ad-block, but on DSL doesn't matter. For me FF is a
simply browser, and Opera is an environment.

People buy Opera, then don't use it?????

I suppose it happens, it takes all kinds to make a world. Opera has a free, though heavily ad supported, "trial version". I used this for about a month before deciding to purchase it. So, if people have come in the way I did, one would assume they actually like the browser and use it.

Some people probably buy right away due to hype, but 40 dollars American is something to consider when they're giving away the other major browsers, and they work at least reasonably well. Frankly, you have to be something of a geek to begin with just to switch from IE, which comes "free" with Windows and which works to the extent that, as I write this, they have the major portion of the browser market-- something like 87% if I remember right.

But, you know, this whole topic is beginning to remind me of that joke about a popular nightclub. You know the one. "Nobody goes there, it's too crowded."

Originally posted by Vince
Finally, a troll. But must answer (I really shouldn't).

So your saying that no one is using Opera anymore is not trolling, but my disagreeing with you is?

How dows size of forum have anything to do with actual product? Maybe any Firefox user doesn't have to find help and write to that board. I persnally didn't even know that Firefox had a official forum.

The point here is that there are thousands of Opera users here, proving your claim that no one uses Opera anymore wrong.

Yes, I own Opera 7 -lisence, but propably will not use it anymore. I get Firefox updates without my Visa, so where is the point?

The point is that Opera has delivered a lot of value to its customers, even making significant upgrades to Opera 7 completely for free.

I'm not acclaiming anybody as scammer, just pointing out my opinion. And if I don't use Opera anymore, I don't have any need to contact Opera Software and they don't have to offer any services for me. Easier for the company.

But what is your point? What is your opinion? What do you mean by 'after marketing'?

Are you saying that Opera is tricking users into buying it? You can use Opera completely for free for as long as you like until you decide to buy it. If you buy it without testing it properly to see if you are willing to pay for it, you are the fool here, not Opera.

This "everybody must have" was true within my friends. We all have quite long exprerience using WWW, so using secure web-browser is naturally our choice. Of course majority of normal users thinks that IE=Internet, but everybody that I'm dealing with, are aware that it isn't so and even they can now choose better browser.

Funny that. Everyone I know is using Opera, and they find Firefox to be overrated and over hyped.

EDIT: Allmost forgot. I don't hate Opera, it still has many great features. Why shouldn't I come here? That Opera Softare would never know my feelings about their product? If you get pissed off when I'm critisizing your browser, you shouldn't be here. And trust me, I have some knowledge about this subject. Not much but some. Too much information just causes pain.

So what is your point? You are saying that no one uses Opera anymore, which is wrong. It has more users than ever. You are saying that Firefox does the same things Opera does, which is wrong:

[url]http://stuff.techwhack.com/archives/2004/11/26/opera-more-productive-firefox/
[url]http://www.gungfu.de/facts/archives/2004/11/22/why-i-love-opera/

The only thing of real substance in all of your posts in this thread is that Opera is crashing for you.

Did you really have to write all that just to say "Opera crashes, so I won't use it anymore"? Wow.

As I said, I use Opera with ad-banner, so I haven't official support. But Opera
community is more helpful, than a "24 hour emergency service". This is really a
community, with discussions, that make Opera better and better.
If you look at the 7.60 Preview series, you can see, that step by step are builded in
on the forum mentioned wishes. They are really for customers, for the "ad-banner customers" too.
And ad-banner: I switch often to normal screen to see, what offer the ad-banner for me
to the actual site. It's very useful. You should try it. I found many sites, they were
actual for my interest, and I use so "advertised" sites, too.

Firefox is not worth the hype it received and it seems to already be declining. I do not see much of a future for firefox, building a browser is a big effort and it would take something significant to gain the support from volunteers to release a 2nd or 3rd version.

What nonsense is this? I'd keep an eye on Spreadfirefox.com and keep watching that 10 million downloads figure going up and up. (And that's just for version 1.0. Millions downloaded each version prior to that too.) I see a massive future for Firefox myself. Do you really think they will drop it suddenly?

Few years a go Opera was top of the line browser and everybody must have it.

That's never been true in the UK. It has always been a minority product, sadly. IE has dominated the browser market, and before that the main alternative was Netscape.

Opera came very unstable (reason why I'm writing this message with firefox)

Sorry? You do not need Firefox to post here. Opera is far from unstable for me, and countless millions of users.

Allso my new email(=gmail) didn't work in opera, which originally lead me into to GPL-world.

The latest version of Opera, 7.60 Preview 4, has apparently solved this problem. Besides, that was Google's fault, surely. They didn't allow for Opera.

I'm allmost regreting that I bought this crap, because now I don't even have it in my computer. Not in home or in office.

Here comes a smiley... guess which one...

So my suggestion to all those who are considering to buy Opera, try Firefox. It does all the same tricks and doesn't cost you anything. It pisses me off finding this too late...

I really don't get this my dad has been an happy Firefox user since a few months ago because Opera was way to complex for him (he doesn't need it for his work and doesn't surf much in his free time) and he didn't have the time nor the need to learn it. Considering the new and redesinged user interface I reintroduced it to him and he uses it now again.

The new user interface definly made it a lot more attractive for new users to start using Opera. Opera ain't the geek browser anymore that it was a long time ago, it's now the browser for smart people with an high IQ that have jobs that earn them enough money to spend 30 bucks on a way to increase productivity and spend less time on the phone with tech support. Ofcourse 99% of the opera users aren't like that but it does have the image of being like that (just like not all american's think that Iraq should be invaded or just like not all Japanese people think that outsiders ''suck'' but it's way more easier to think in stereotypes). Expensive but worth it's money like an BMW. The browser for people that have a choiche.

Ofcourse this is different for everybody else and i'm sure that the're still a lot of people out their that look at Opera and think about it as the ''geek browser'' but i gues that will change over time.

Vince,

I've reported him. Hopefully something will finally be done.

I have to say, I keep hearing about how Opera is unstable... but I don't experiance that at all. Neither does anyone I know who uses Opera. Sure it occasionally crashes, but so does everything else. I do know that since I moved to WinXP, crashing is far less a part of my life than it was on Win98SE. With any program. My guess is that there is some software or some collection of different software on your computer that doesn't get along with Opera. Either that or one of the base config files got corrupted. This has never happened to me, but apparently it does happen occasionally, so I would check that.

Otherwise, I feel for you. Windows/program mix instabilities are about impossible to diagnose.

I use both, but use Safari more than Opera/Firefox. Though Opera is worth it It has a special place in my heart:love:

Chris,

I've reported him. Hopefully something will finally be done.

Originally posted by jp10558
I have to say, I keep hearing about how Opera is unstable... but I don't experiance that at all. Neither does anyone I know who uses Opera. Sure it occasionally crashes, but so does everything else. I do know that since I moved to WinXP, crashing is far less a part of my life than it was on Win98SE. With any program. My guess is that there is some software or some collection of different software on your computer that doesn't get along with Opera. Either that or one of the base config files got corrupted. This has never happened to me, but apparently it does happen occasionally, so I would check that.

Otherwise, I feel for you. Windows/program mix instabilities are about impossible to diagnose.

Almost every single build of Opera I've used has crashed at least once, but I very seldom use a stable build. (Opera always seems to crash when creating a mail account too) It's not much of a problem though becuase you just restart where you left off. (it'd be nice if it saved form text on crashes though). I cannot speak for anyone else, but for me, I have the habit of expecting more out of a alpha/beta than I should. For me, I use the newest Opera version that is out as my main browser. Others may be the same way and forget that it's an alpha/beta they are using. That could be the source of a lot of stability complaints. Plus I notice that so many use ancient versions of Opera.

For Firefox, even using final, stable builds, I experience a lot more crashes than Opera. Also, not actually a crash, but a lot of times when I close Firefox, the gui will close, but I have to kill the process or the Firefox process will start, but no gui will load. This has been a problem for many versions. I myself tend to use the newest stable version of Firefox. Again, I can not speak for anyone, but it appears that Firefox users are more likely to use the newest stable version where as said before, Opera users tend to use the newest unstable version or an *ancient version.

(just my observation).

*ancient: previous to the newest stable version

Seems to me like this thread has pretty well run its course. Nothing wrong with people airing their opinions, as long as they recognize that they are opinions. Some people like Firefox. Some people even like IE, though I really can't understand why.

But seems like we're not getting any farther here, so it's probably time to close this one down. People are entitled to their opinions, and in this case looks like everyone has made up their minds so you're not going to change them.