Opera only 88th on PC World's list.

Opera only 88th on PC World's list.

[url]http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,12,00.asp

Ouch..that is not good at all, kind of like being as popular as wanting to see your dentist but if you click on the number 1 choice, you get a pretty fair breakdown of all the browser players and Opera came out pretty well there.
Can you say "Paradox"?

Only? It got the best browser award second time in a row!

Originally posted by Sigup
Only? It got the best browser award second time in a row!

Firefox is ranked first..

From just a quick scan of the page, the numerical order appears to be somewhat irrelavent, because the mix is somewhat like comparing apples to oranges. It covers everything from software, hardware and other services. Its kind of like watching a dog show competition, how can you compare all breeds of dogs against each other and pick a champion? The puzzler is that they list Firefox as number one, I have it installed and I don't find anything to brag on it about.

Agree with you seeker, but also you must remember that Opera 8 has only just been released, so it wouldn't have had a chance to have been downloaded as much as say Firefox.

Winning a World Class award two years in a row is a great achievement! Yet another point to add when converting people to Opera

Opera clearly wins over Firefox as a browser when it comes to features, performance and innovation (three of the thing used to pick the winners). Firefox has the price advantage, but I'm not sure about "exemplary design". It depends on what you prefer, I guess. But Firefox will never match the level of integration that Opera has.

Opera has three things going for it (features, performance, innovation), while Firefox has one (being ad-free). Don't let it get you down

Winning the best browser award two years in a row is a great achievement! Yet another point to add when converting people to Opera

Indeed. Congrats for two years running and a future 3rd year!

Congrats!!!!.Firefox has never been about innovation - lot of the features has been "borrowed" from Opera's innovative ideas - people dont realise that:D

FF has extensions.
thats why people like it :|

IE has extensions

Congrats Opera! Keep up the great work!

Originally posted by haavard

Opera has three things going for it (features, performance, innovation), while Firefox has one (being ad-free). Don't let it get you down

A-hem. FF actually only has the three features that matter to me most. Great cookie handling, an ad killer and a flash killer. Opera fails in all three categorys. Opera blows FF out of the water in many other areas, but it is not so one sided as you suggest.

Cookie management, ad blocking and the ability to add extensions or not is what matters most to me as well. 60 million downloads clearly indicates that it is NOT as one-sided as is being suggested here.

btw: if you read down through the FF details on the PC page you find the following: "Firefox: The best all-around alternative to IE. Great for power users who want to add functionality to the browser, and appropriate for newbies just getting started."

And what does it conclude about Opera? "Opera: Best for power users who keep many pages open at once and perform frequent downloads. There's an e-mail program included, but banner ads on the free version of the browser are annoying."

Originally posted by leushino
Cookie management, ad blocking and the ability to add extensions or not is what matters most to me as well. 60 million downloads clearly indicates that it is NOT as one-sided as is being suggested here.

btw: if you read down through the FF details on the PC page you find the following: "Firefox: The best all-around alternative to IE. Great for power users who want to add functionality to the browser, and appropriate for newbies just getting started."

And what does it conclude about Opera? "Opera: Best for power users who keep many pages open at once and perform frequent downloads. There's an e-mail program included, but banner ads on the free version of the browser are annoying."

Mmmm, well, with an add on - some might call it an "extension" to Opera - called proxomitron, you can get 2 out of 3...

Extensions in general still sound like a different API for BHO's and we all saw how well that went for IE.

Originally posted by haavard
IE has extensions

It does? I had no idea about that, guess that's another thing (among many) that lots of FF fanboys wrongly think is a Firefox invention then.

The really sad part is, firefox is #1. I mean, it's slow as dirt, it's interface sucks beyond all belief, it's got almost no features w/o adding extentions - which often do really strange things to it. But at least most of the things on that list aren't browsers.

I'm actually abit curious as to their criteria... A few things on that list look really out of place.

Originally posted by ThePast
It does? I had no idea about that, guess that's another thing (among many) that lots of FF fanboys wrongly think is a Firefox invention then.

Yeah, what did you think BHO's/toolbars/browser hijackers were?

DOH! now I feel really thick

I just think PC World rates by popularity here. They just want to ride on Firefox's wave and definitely fear to be marked as "uncool" when putting Opera in a better place then FF.

Firefox is a trend - and, different to Opera, just was there one day, while Opera had been there in the background for more than ten years without the public taking much notice of it. It's all marketing.

Originally posted by Nekomusume
The really sad part is, firefox is #1. I mean, it's slow as dirt,

Slow ? Hmm, it opens pages 2 times faster than my Opera 8. It is like that any moment I try and compare ... so, be more realistic ... FIrefox also does not crash, does not suddenly stop opening pages needing restart and does not lose one month worth of emails in one moment. So I think unless Opera improves substantially (big words are not enough), the 88th position is quite reasonable ...

In the category Web, Opera is mentioned as best browser, however this is a bit contradictive since in the "all list" FF is no. 1.

Anyway here you can see that Opera indeed is best browser in the web category [url]http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,6,00.asp

Originally posted by bluesman2333
FF actually only has the three features that matter to me most.

Well I was speaking in general terms. Opera simply has more functionality built in than Firefox.

Hooray for Opera

Alienware Aurora > Firefox ( in that list )
who the hell would pick FF over an ALIENWARE O.O
FF = marketing and spam

Originally posted by Ivos
Slow ? Hmm, it opens pages 2 times faster than my Opera 8. It is like that any moment I try and compare ... so, be more realistic ... FIrefox also does not crash, does not suddenly stop opening pages needing restart and does not lose one month worth of emails in one moment. So I think unless Opera improves substantially (big words are not enough), the 88th position is quite reasonable ...

Well, that experiance is far from universal. Every actual test I've seen performed, linked from slashdot, here, and elsewhere shows Opera 8 to objectively be faster than FireFox. I find the mouse guestures, tab handling, and instant back/forward + UI to be much faster as well.

And I only compare against the base firefox. As soon as someone starts demanding I take extensions into account to use FireFox, I'll start demanding they buy Opera, and take proxomitron + some custom buttons from the wiki into account when they use Opera.

All this is of course not to disparage your experiance. It likely is that way on your PC - due to who knows what, especially if running windows.

Firefox fans vs. Opera fans discussion split to separate thread.

Originally posted by Ivos
...<edit> FIrefox.......<edit> and does not lose one month worth of emails in one moment.<edit> ...

so where is Firefox's mail client???? surely you're thinking of something else??

(no, webmail does not count...)

Latest news: Opera winner again

"In an incredibly unscientific comparison of browsers, Opera emerged the winner in each of my incredibly unscientific categories."

Read more:
[url]http://business.bostonherald.com/technologyNews/view.bg?articleid=88202

Originally posted by illiad
so where is Firefox's mail client???? surely you're thinking of something else??

(no, webmail does not count...)

Thunderbird ties in quite nicely, Illiad. It also allows html mail when the need arises.

Very nice review. A bit unscientific, but not more, than other reviews with victory
of rival browsers. And it has right:up:

Originally posted by leushino
Thunderbird ties in quite nicely, Illiad. It also allows html mail when the need arises.

Again, not to be argumentative, but if you're allowed to add a second program like thunderbird for mail to compare to Opera, why are Opera users not "allowed" to add a second program like Proxomitron for adblocking etc to compare to FireFox?

It's this double standard that annoys me the most. ITS THE SAME BLEEPING THING! Another program for additional functionality.

Originally posted by jp10558
Again, not to be argumentative, but if you're allowed to add a second program like thunderbird for mail to compare to Opera, why are Opera users not "allowed" to add a second program like Proxomitron for adblocking etc to compare to FireFox?

It's this double standard that annoys me the most. ITS THE SAME BLEEPING THING! Another program for additional functionality.

"Copyrightly" both FF and TB are Mozilla development, so it's not the same case.
But technically isn't any integration.

Originally posted by leushino
Thunderbird ties in quite nicely, Illiad. It also allows html mail when the need arises.

so you might as well say, that opera can use 'full html/xml/whatever' email, you just use the client that comes with windows! you know, outlook express....

Apples and oranges. It's just not the same thing and I think you know this.

Originally posted by leushino
Apples and oranges. It's just not the same thing and I think you know this.

I don't know this. How is it different? Does thunderbird become a tab in FireFox when you install it?

As far as I know, FF + Thunderbird would work the same as Opera + Thunderbird or Opera + Eudora...

the only page about the browser award I can see is on www.opera.com
I search everywhere on pcworld.com, many articles on Opera, noone about this famous browser award.
can you give me a link ?

The link is right on this page...
[url]http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92954#post950456

I can say, that the title "Product of the year" for FF is right:

Netscape lost the first browser war against IE, and IE became the
"dictator". Mozilla Foundation hadn't enough power to fight
against IE. And almost from the nothing came FF, the plain,
naked browser, unlike to Mozilla or Opera, as integrated suites.
And in this environment "won" against IE less than one year. I mean
"winning" is the fact, that IE lost its monopoly after 8 year.
I know, that IE is dominant WEB browser, yet, but don't has
monopoly. I mean, that this first place doesn't show any technical
triumph (although FF became a very good browser), but rather a
WEB-diplomatic victory.
By my opinion Opera technically is much more fine, but no doubt FF has
some first rating features. And has a big comparative advantage:
it can part the development of " not so much important" elements
with the open source community (extensions), and can concentrate
to the core development, has much more time for the improvements
for rendering. And the main staff receive support from the business
partners, who apply the Gecko engine (AOL-Netscape,IBM,Oracle,
Google, etc...).
Opera is in the first line since many years. I wonder, how long
can FF hold this dynamism.
And rather I want see FF in this position, than IE as the "re-new" dictator again.
But I hope, Opera will be the next winner in this war:up:

I'd guess it depends on how many people switched to FireFox for security, and how many for features - and how much their faith is shaken by the recent vulnerabilities discovered, and how many features beyond tabbed browsing they use when IE7 comes out.

Vulnerabilities are discovered all the time; it's part and parcel of the times. BUT they are quickly addressed and THAT is the real issue. When IE 7 makes its appearance later in the summer, I suspect many will jump ship just to see what improvements have been made. I've heard that the shell is essentially the same... it's not a re-write as is Mozilla from the old Netscape Communicator. Thus I would expect those who abandon FF/NS to quickly return once the novelty of IE 7 wears thin.

Look what Asa Dotzler wrote in his blog:
[url]http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/008289.html

opera lies about being named pc world best browser

Opera Software seems to have decided that it's easier lie that to win. Here's the chain of events as best as I can tell.
PC World announced their 100 Best Products of 2005.
Firefox not only won the coveted Product of the Year award, sweeping all 99 other products in the list, but it beat out two other browsers, Maxthon at number 12 and Opera way down at number 88.
Opera puts out a press release claiming "A Winning Streak: Opera once again wins PC World's World Class Award for best Web browser". Opera.com then places this same thing on their front page (see the third checkbox with the claim that they've won best browser in '05.)
Conclusion: Opera is simply lying. They were one of 100 products to be labeled as "World Class" but they did not win any "best Web browser" anything. They were last in the ranking of three web browsers. They got beat by both Maxthon and Firefox.

Remember, the best way to deal with flamebait (or even trolling) is often to ignore it

Opera only 88th on PC World's list.

"Opera didn't win best anything. They were one of the 100 celebrated listings and they're mentioned specifically in the "web" category (it's just a category, not a specific award group) but they're ranked number 88 in the list and Firefox is listed as number 1 with a full-page spread. It's clear to everyone looking that Opera is lying about what they've won and that Firefox is PC World's winner overall and the highest ranked browser. Opera is the lowest ranked browser of those recognized (falling way behind even Maxthon.)" (TRT)

Get the non-fanboy truth here: [url]http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/008289.html

SHAME ON OPERA!

Another troll here.

Re: Opera only 88th on PC World's list.

Originally posted by PeterReaper
"Opera didn't win best anything. They were one of the 100 celebrated listings and they're mentioned specifically in the "web" category (it's just a category, not a specific award group) but they're ranked number 88 in the list and Firefox is listed as number 1 with a full-page spread. It's clear to everyone looking that Opera is lying about what they've won and that Firefox is PC World's winner overall and the highest ranked browser. Opera is the lowest ranked browser of those recognized (falling way behind even Maxthon.)" (TRT)

Get the non-fanboy truth here: [url]http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/008289.html

SHAME ON OPERA!

Re: Opera only 88th on PC World's list.

Originally posted by PeterReaper
"Opera didn't win best anything. They were one of the 100 celebrated listings and they're mentioned specifically in the "web" category (it's just a category, not a specific award group) but they're ranked number 88 in the list and Firefox is listed as number 1 with a full-page spread. It's clear to everyone looking that Opera is lying about what they've won and that Firefox is PC World's winner overall and the highest ranked browser. Opera is the lowest ranked browser of those recognized (falling way behind even Maxthon.)" (TRT)

Get the non-fanboy truth here: [url]http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/008289.html

SHAME ON OPERA!

Opera is listed as "WEB BROWSER" in the web category. No other browsers to be seen. Guess you ignored that on purpose, huh?

Also, ASA LIED!

Is that new?

Re: Opera only 88th on PC World's list.

Originally posted by PeterReaper
Get the non-fanboy truth here: [url]http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/008289.html

LMAO, ROFL So to get the non-fanboy truth I should go to the weblog of one of the biggest FF fanboys there is?

Peter, you are funny, ever considered a career in Stand-up Comedy?

I don't get it. How come Opera has won something? As far as I can see, there is no separate category for best web browser. There's just Firefox which won the entire competition. The much-hyped link is just page 5 out of 12 listing the 100 best products. (Opera happens to be the only web browser there on page 5)

The pressrelese ist highly missleading, as it says "...Award for best Web browser". I can't find any Award for best web browser on PC World's web pages.
So Opera is just one of "The Best Products of 2005" and nothing more.
It's the only product called "browser" listed among others in the category "Web". But I'm not sure if this means "...Award for best Web browser".