Why does opera lie?

Why does opera lie?

[url]http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/008289.html


where did you get information in regard to receiving best web browser?
why would you lie about receiving best web browser?

i just don't under why you would resort to lies...

Re: Why does opera lie?

Originally posted by jayson1
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/..
...
i just don't under why you would resort to lies...

It's not, it's the best You should think twice about your source too, mozilla-propaganda. I hope you're not a troll.

and on the web category page, it says for those who DON'T LIKE FIREFOX should try opera.

so? my 1st link did not work so here it is again, sorry for deletion of the previous post [url]http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,6,00.asp

Edit: btw maybe you should quote correctly in the future, I'll give you some help this time.

Opera 8 WEB BROWSER (Free) Find Firefox too austere? Opera is an attractive, feature-rich alternative.

Originally posted by ThePast
so? my 1st link did not work so here it is again, sorry for deletion of the previous post [url]http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,6,00.asp

well, its an alternative to the PRODUCT OF THE YEAR.. its not the best web browser, obviously opera and you are reading into more then you should. PC WORLD doesn't say these products are the best in the category. They are showing examples of products within the category.

Originally posted by ThePast
so? my 1st link did not work so here it is again, sorry for deletion of the previous post [url]http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,6,00.asp

Edit: btw maybe you should quote correctly in the future, I'll give you some help this time.

look at the image next to what you just quoted, wow.. thats.... thats firefox

Yawn....

i'm not trying to be a troll, i just dont understand why the marketing department at opera would result to this, when clearly there is nothing stating "opera is the best web browser"

jayson1, you came here just to ask why Opera lied in its press-release, didn't you?

I posted this on Asa's blog, and I am crossposting almost in its entirety:

I think that this may be the result of an innocent misunderstanding, and if it is, the fault belongs to both PC World and Opera. PC World decided to list everything by category, and one product can only fit into one category. With the highest honor bestowed upon it, "product of the year" is a category all by its own, hence excluded from all other categories. On the "Web" category page, Opera is the ONLY one listed with subcategory "browser." Maxthon is there too, but its subcategory is "BROWSER PLUG-IN." Hence I can see Opera getting the misinformation that since they are the only "browser" named, they got the browser of the year award. This was confusing as heck to me when I read it first - because I automatically expected them to rate a "best product" in each category. I know, assumptions are always dangerous.

Nonetheless, Opera deserves quite a bit of the blame if this was the case. A close reading of that page reveals the "Web" page is a category list - and the items are listed in ALPHABETICAL ORDER. Take a look and you will see at least three things with the subcategory "web site". Obviously, there cannot be three "best" web sites. There are two with the subcategory "VOIP service". Hence, Opera's people should have been professional to figure out that not only did they not win the "Best Browser" award, but that that award simply does not exist.

Of course, Asa may be right that Opera is simply flat-out lying. I am just not ready to jump to that conclusion yet, but the fact that they don't provide a link to their "award" in their press release is rather suspecious.

Asa is an... I won't say it :x

nah, just too full of himself.

anyway, the real fact is that Opera is the best browser of the year, but Firefox is the product of the year, not the best browser.

product of the year because of its fast increasing success, but not for its features.

C'mon, let's do not discuss the person (who is though apparently biased against Opera), who posted his thoughts in his weblog. It is not good.
Stick to the topic itself.
If it is a misunderstanding of PC World article, so it should be clarified by somebody from Opera Software ASA.

It would of course be very nice for Opera haters if we lied (cheap ammo - jump to the guns!), but either we did win the best browser award, or there is a misunderstanding on our part. This is probably a bit confusing, since PC World lists Opera as the only browser.

If we were mistaken, I am sure that it will be corrected

Oh, and there's no reason to make this personal (I removed the post with an image attached).

Even if certain people are eager to find something on us (automatically assuming the worst), that's no reason to take this thing even further. I am sure that both Asa and jayson1 know that "lying" is a strong word one should use with caution, but it does of course provoke reactions from people.

and have you noticed that IE (the browser itself!) has always been lying??

just try this simple test... make sure you have a good net connection first..

start up IE, check that works ok.. now remove your net connection!
goto a different page in IE, and notice the 'blinker' is blinking, the progressbar at the bottom is progressing.... ???

now goto opera, and load a page you know worked just recently...

hmm, thats strange, progressbar says all zeros..... ( of course, no connection!)

who is lying now???

and if you believe a website that is usually brainless etc, then you deserve what you get...

Thanks for the answer, Haavard.
I do not know the procedure, but if a product of a company wins an award according to PC World, will this company be notified about the award by any means or does this company need to read all articles of PC World to know about this award if any?

I think I heard somewhere that you have to *pay* to be recognised by pcworld...

unlike 'download' that do their own tests, with reviews from the public...

huh?

I'm a Opera user havent tried Firefox but click on the first page of that PCWorld ranking

[url]http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,1,00.asp

Product of the Year
Mozilla Firefox

Originally posted by Basik
I'm a Opera user havent tried Firefox but click on the first page of that PCWorld ranking

[url]http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,1,00.asp

Product of the Year
Mozilla Firefox

You are clearly a Firefox user who registered here just to contribute to the FUD.

But whatever.

Opera is listed as "WEB BROWSER" in the web category. No other browsers to be seen. Guess you ignored that on purpose, huh?

Not best browser, just product...

Originally posted by Sigup
Opera is listed as "WEB BROWSER" in the web category. No other browsers to be seen. Guess you ignored that on purpose, huh?

Just as this on the link he/she provided seem to have been ignored.

In the following pages you'll find our top picks grouped by category (for example, Security on page 4 and Digital Photography on page 8), as well as in ranked order from 1 to 100 on page 12. Here, we begin with our Product of the Year.

steady, sigup, bit early here for shouting!!! (yes, I was going to edit the right post, but *loads* of guys jumped in before I was able to!!! )

just finishing my coffee , but I agree with you....


oh, and welcome to the forums, Basik.... (you seem to have stepped into a 'war' )

yes, you can take sigup's 'subtitle' seriously... but we luv him really...

lol u stupid or what :]

ok then click the LAST page
[url]http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,12,00.asp

now search the page for "Web Browser"

wow.. 2 browsers.
and apparently one of them is at the TOP thus no need to be placed in the outlying 'Web' category.

guys, ull make me switch

heh... rabid, blind maybe, but not stupid.... that's pcworld!!

... to opera, we hope???

Basik the Firefox fanboy, why are you defending Asa's lies?

click for more reasons why....

Originally posted by Basik
lol u stupid or what :]

ok then click the LAST page
[url]http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,12,00.asp

now search the page for "Web Browser"

wow.. 2 browsers.
and apparently one of them is at the TOP thus no need to be placed in the outlying 'Web' category.

guys, ull make me switch

Has the thought occured to you that there might be more than one reason as to why FF is given the rank it is given. Such as the fact that it gave IE a major dent in its userbase, that it managed to gain a huge userbase in a very short period of time and that it more than likely "forced" Microsoft to for the first time in years to actually develop IE.

In my opinion stupidity is defined (among other things) to lack the ability to see something from several angles.

for the 'official' word, look at secunia..

I just read Asa's thing and realized i've basically paraphrased what he said..
plus checked the Opera homepage which no lenger sais "PC World's World Class Award for best Web browser"

so here theres no 'war', id rather go get into a discussion with the TV , at least it has video and audio ^^

@ThePast here we discussing just the fact of Opera ranking not the reasons for it, ill give u another def of stupid - 'cant pick an accurate angle'

Basik, can you respond to this?

"Yes, one of the categories was WEB, and as a "WEB BROWSER" Opera was the only one.

What I have demonstrated now is that there is clearly room for (mis)interpretation.

Asa knew this when he blogged about it. Why did he automatically assume that Opera was lying, when clearly there was room for making mistakes? Because it was a cheap shot, and he couldn't resist the temptation.

In other words: He accused Opera of lying knowing full well that it was probably just a misunderstanding. Unlike Opera, Asa's blog post was not a misunderstanding, because his posting history about Opera clearly shows that he takes any opportunity to put it down.

So if Asa claimed that Opera lied, but he did the same thing himself, what does that make Asa?"

basik: sorry, I was using 'slang' for 'big argument' - hey, its just another forum day....

and a lot safer than real life!!

@Sigup

1. By missunderstanding, or on purpouse, a lie is a lie.
2. Its REALLY hard not to se that ff is ranked no1 and not to know that ff is a browser

@ illiad 10x for explaining , i thought they gon track me and hack me ;]

Originally posted by Basik
1. By missunderstanding, or on purpouse, a lie is a lie.

Wrong. A lie is when you say something you know is untrue. Like Asa did.

2. Its REALLY hard not to se that ff is ranked no1 and not to know that ff is a browser

What part of "What I have demonstrated now is that there is clearly room for (mis)interpretation" did you have problems understanding?

but here is a 'Opera awarded by PCWorld' thread .... its just like celebrities, one day they love you, next day they hate you.... (no serious news to write about, I guess...)

Enough. Even if Opera lied, it aint gonna affect which browser i'm using, i really ilke mouse geastures, and the Transfers panel, so well see..

Opera didn't lie, Basik. If you claim that Opera lied, then you are a liar, just like Asa. Hypocrite.

Originally posted by Basik
@Sigup

1. By missunderstanding, or on purpouse, a lie is a lie.

Now, look on the dictionary definition of lie.

lie

Pronunciation: (lī), [key]
—n., v., lied, ly•ing.

—n.
1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

"Winning best product doesn't automatically make Firefox best browser. "Product" isn't simply a catch-all for all types of software. Things like learning curve, ease of install, etc, should be weighted much more heavily when judging best product compared with any other category.

Let me use an example: vim versus nano. nano is the better product, vim is the better text editor. Even though they are both text editors.

I use Firefox and much prefer it to Opera. But I see no problem with Opera being considered a better browser than Firefox by others, even if they think that Firefox is the better *product* overall.

I think it's a bit inaccurate the way Opera were turning it into some sort of "best browser" award, but I don't think that Firefox winning best product has anything to do with it whatsoever."

I've used Opera for years. I think it is a fine product! I prefer it over Firefox. However, as a marketing professional I can only say that this "mistake" is unfortunate. Whether intentional or not, misunderstanding or not, or however it may be explained, it comes across as a terribly stupid -- and petty -- blunder . . . a marketing credulity blunder! :-(

janusz, how does Mozilla get away with lying about Opera in their PR then?

Sigup --

Mozilla? They do it so then Opera does it? That's supposed to be justification? Who's hand got caught in the cookie jar? My comments were about Opera and its rush to proclaim something without spending sufficient time to check the facts.

Anyway it's explained or justified doesn't change the fact that it's an unfortunate marketing blunder.

You don't get it do you?

Opera made an honest mistake. They've removed the press release and everything.

Mozilla, on the other hand, bases its marketing on lies and FUD. Mozilla puts down Opera in their marketing. Opera never puts down Mozilla!

Opera's hand got caught in the cookie jar? How can it, when Mozilla STOLE the entire jar?

The only blunder here is that a Mozilla rep made a big deal out of it because he takes every opportunity to spread FUD and lies about Opera.

Respect Sigup, but to me it seems as if you are confusing janusz with some of the 's you bashed elsewhere today.

Something i was about to reply to but the thread closed before i could post

Originally posted by PeterReaper
Since you are clearly a TROLL and not interested in being truthful in your posts, I will merely point out this further inaccuracy of yours, and then hope someone will ban you from this forum:

The link you gave is to a rant about an article by CNET where they interview a mozilla developer of an obscure & minor project (minimo). The developer obviously only talks about minimo (and not about opera), which seems the main complaint of the rant, and by extension, of your argument that "Mozilla lies". The third comment on the rant seemed to summarize it nicely: "Imagine that, them [Mozilla] promoting their own product, it truely is mind boggling."

Sigup, since you obviously have nothing contructive to say, are not interested in facts, and the "title" given you by Opera.com (no less) is "RABID FANBOY", I doubt I will respond to any more of your trollish flaim-bait posts again.

Comes from someone promoting only Mozilla products in their signature

Opera does have the right to make its claim although Firefox did win product of the year. Opera did get the award for best web browser in the category (hence the press release) and this link:

[url]http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120763,pg,6,00.asp

See any other web-browsers in that list? Nope..

But as confusing as PC World gets.. FF is a web browser too but doesnt really state if Opera is the best or not in that category. I can see why you think it may be a lie.

Mozilla can claim all they want they made the features or to be percieved that they did. How can they say that "Minimo can be ported to many platforms when Opera can't" when there isn't a finished product, and nothing to back them up.

It's not a falsely claimed award.. you just need to realise that Opera is better in the category of 'Web Browsers' and thats why it recieved the award.

Do your research, I forgot. you need an extension for that...

I can gladly see, that the number of forum members are growth:happy:

We have much new Opera fans, and welcome to them!

But we have new FireFox fans, too. So became the Opera Forum a multicolor forum.
Welcome to them, too, and I ask them to be fair discussion partners:cheers:

Read more commentary on this at Opera Blogs: [url]http://my.opera.com/community/takeaction/blogs/

Personally I respect Haavard's perspective on this, but it's a short walk from a misunderstanding to incompetance - especially when a number of bloggers (Opera supporters all, and myself included) took pains to point out that FireVole was Product of the Year - even if their headlines were celebrating Opera being "World Class". And really, I'm not sure Opera wouldn't rather act incompetant now rather than admit to having been maliciously misleading (aka lying).

Either way, in the words of David Mitchell - "And that's a *bad* miss". And whatever the case is, Opera should set the record straight - if only to make things right by the people (like me) who would like/prefer Opera to be firmly and completely above reproach.

If you want a marketing slogan, how's this? "FUD free zone", or the old chestnut of "Don't be Evil". Opera is a good enough browser that it doesn't/shouldn't have to go near anything or do anything that will give it odour problems.